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(BBC)   Rogue US soldier accused of killing Afghan civilians, Paladin disapproves   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 499
    More: News, Afghans, United States, Afghan civilians, Politics of Denmark, newspapers in Denmark, Kandahar Province, Kandahar, International Security Assistance Force  
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11421 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2012 at 1:09 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-11 06:11:52 PM  

culebra: Cue another round of Right Wing pouting when Obama inevitably issues a statement of apology.


I'm pretty sure he's going to have to offer fellatio to make up for this one.
 
2012-03-11 06:13:35 PM  
Ugandan warlord uses kids to kill women and children. Liberals call for his head.

Kenyan warlord uses kids to kill women and children. Totally OK as long as he apologizes.
 
2012-03-11 06:18:30 PM  

Infernalist: BudTheSpud: Glitchwerks: PlatinumDragon: Afghan officials are claiming more than one was involved, and that they were laughing and appeared drunk.

This is rapidly going downhill.

Jesus Christ.

Try him in Afghan court, and put the death penalty on the table. This is the ONLY way they will save face in this nightmare. Otherwise they are wasting their time even apologizing for this. No debate, no discussion, just give him to the mob. Otherwise they might as well just hand Afghanistan back over to the Taliban. The people won't accept anything but Afghan justice.

In my opinion, they 'should' hand him over to the Afghans, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Just give em over and tell his family that he surrendered his right to an American court by acting as he did.

If the situation was reversed and an Afghan soldier killed American citizens, I sincerely doubt we'd let the Afghans try him in an Afghani court.


One of the reasons we left Iraq is because we wanted the military justice system to meet out military justice. Hanging burning bodies off of a bridge isn't really an alternative.

Additionally, we should charter planes and load them up with all those Americans who decided we were going to fight two wars and fight those wars on the "cheap" and with rules that keep the enemy from being killed and get our soldiers killed and maimed. That soldier got the way he was partly because the US civilians told the US military to do what it does. Nowhere close to every soldier will snap like this guy is supposed to have but the environment that "innocent" American civilians--and the leaders they chose--created for him didn't help.
 
2012-03-11 06:19:41 PM  
mete dammit
 
2012-03-11 06:24:19 PM  
I'm glad they're defending our freedoms over there.
 
2012-03-11 06:28:50 PM  

pedobearapproved: culebra: Cue another round of Right Wing pouting when Obama inevitably issues a statement of apology.

I'm pretty sure he's going to have to offer fellatio to make up for this one.


From a comment on Fox News:

"Obama just announced that he is personally going to provide fe la tio to every Afghani male to compensate for their loss."
 
2012-03-11 06:33:07 PM  
Welcomed as liberators. Believe it.
 
2012-03-11 06:34:51 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Osama bin Laden is dead, and he wasn't even in Afghanistan. Why the fark are we still there?


images.smh.com.au
 
2012-03-11 06:37:32 PM  
I went over to FOX just to read the comments. I shall not biatch about the quality of discourse on this board for at least one week. It's NUTS over there.

The guy needs to be tried, and possibly executed. You can't just let people plan their own massacres, and yeah, 14 is a damned massacre. I'm sad about this one all around, from the families of the needlessly killed to the soldiers family. Sucks all around.
 
2012-03-11 06:38:38 PM  

dryknife: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Osama bin Laden is dead, and he wasn't even in Afghanistan. Why the fark are we still there?

[images.smh.com.au image 420x266]


think less poppies, and more pipelines. Afghanistan is the best route for pipelines to move a metric assload of natural gas out of the central asian republics.
 
2012-03-11 06:39:19 PM  
Keep on votin' fer them 'Publicans and Demeecrats!
USA! USA! USA! USA!
 
2012-03-11 06:44:43 PM  

dryknife: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Osama bin Laden is dead, and he wasn't even in Afghanistan. Why the fark are we still there?

[images.smh.com.au image 420x266]


and

en.peacereporter.net
 
2012-03-11 07:06:12 PM  

dforkus: Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

doubtful they'll call him a "hero", but they'll sure as heck swallow their tongues, or else call out the administration's if their condemnation goes "too far"

// can we just get the hell out, like now, please..
// seriously, out now, admit the whole thing was a big mistake, our involvement in Afhganistan should have been limited too very specified counter terrorism operations and nothing else. I think if Obama would just say that, and begin a large withdrawl, the republicans would undoubtedly howl, but he'd win the general in a landslide.


Sadly I'm not so sure, the shameful history of Lt. William Calley (new window) suggests he might not be far off the mark

personally I'd be all for handing this guy over to Afghan authorities and telling them we wash our hands of him COMPLETELY
 
2012-03-11 07:06:34 PM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

He is a hero, at least in my book.

American Soldiers are being killed over a farking book that got thrown in the trash by mistake, not to mention all the deaths at the hands of our supposed allies who have been turning their guns on us.

Even after all this, if he ran for Senate I'd still vote for him before any Democrat.


Account created: 2012-02-15 12:27:51

Plonk.
 
2012-03-11 07:06:55 PM  

nekom: tankjr: I would argue that there is no difference at all. The end result is the same.

The end result isn't the only thing considered in legal matters, intent is a big part of it. If god forbid a kid runs out in front of me and I accidentally hit the kid with my car, or if I broke into a house and killed a kid in cold blood, the end result is the same. But put those two situations in front of a jury and you'll see how different they are.


The difference is that the family of the child run over by your car are not likely to take up arms against you. Whether a legal military action or a cold blooded murder, it's likely that the families of the victims are going to feel the same way. The end result is the same.
 
2012-03-11 07:06:59 PM  
Winning the hearts and minds.

/American exceptionalism
 
2012-03-11 07:07:24 PM  

kg2095: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

He is a hero, at least in my book.

American Soldiers are being killed over a farking book that got thrown in the trash by mistake, not to mention all the deaths at the hands of our supposed allies who have been turning their guns on us.

Even after all this, if he ran for Senate I'd still vote for him before any Democrat.

Why do you think the people he killed had anything to do with the killing of US soldiers? Nothing in the article suggests this to be the case. In all likelihood he killed innocent people rather than those who attacked the soldiers.

Also, I wonder why, if he was known to be mentally ill he was on active duty with access to weapons.


Where did you see that he has a history of mental illness?
 
2012-03-11 07:09:24 PM  

edmo: bobbette: If he mass murdered people in the United States I doubt you'd be so understanding.

The locals around here go apeshiat anytime a minority is involved in anything. To no one's surprise, they're now busily defending these "soldiers" for their actions.

I say turn them over to the Afghans.


fitnessintuition.com

"I say we let him go."
 
2012-03-11 07:11:28 PM  

dryknife: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Osama bin Laden is dead, and he wasn't even in Afghanistan. Why the fark are we still there?

[images.smh.com.au image 420x266]


There's a f'n moth that would totally devastate those poppy fields. It would wipe out the heroin trade once and for all in one summer. Only the politicians stand in the way.
 
2012-03-11 07:12:34 PM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: rev. dave: I would like someone who knows this better than me to give me more information about the culture of deployed troops and their leaders.
Is mental illness still thought of as a character weakness that one must hide or was that never really an issue?
What happens when a well trained combat soldier is left too long with a serious mental illness in the field?

How does one express anger in a healthy way while deployed, healthy means not using violence or weapons as stress relief?

The military has gone to great lengths to help those with PTSD and anger issues. We undergo regular screenings while depolyed as well as before and after. There is ALWAYS someone to go see if need be.

As for the stigma? It's fading with time. Pretty much any Soldier or Marine with any time in service has been deployed a couple of times and they get it now.

That being said, with all that has been going on over there with the green on blue killings, stupid ROE and all the rest, I knew it was a matter of time before someone went apeshiat and started killing people like this.


The Military SAYS they are doing what they can to help PTSD sufferers but until such time as soldiers are no longer being told through the back channels that a PTSD diagnosis is a career/clearance killer, and taught how to mask the symptoms, they may as well not be doing anything at all. Also the military needs to admit how many "PTSD" diagnoses are really "closed head injury" trauma instead. Roadside bombs and modern helmet design are a tailor-made recipe for CHI which is a medical, not mental condition that can cause many PTSD like symptoms
 
2012-03-11 07:13:19 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Sounds like he just went crazy from the pressure of battle, etc. Very sad, but everyone is like "OMG..this has never happened before here". Um...what about the taliban, blowing up innocent civilians every day, what about the soldiers that are supposed to be helping us rid the land of the taliban, turning on us and killing us? So ya, it's horrible, and tragic, but don't make it out like that soldier was the first to get teh crazy and go bugshiat, killing innocent people. The taliban and their supporters do it every day.


Yeah, but we don't lead them as much.
 
2012-03-11 07:16:04 PM  

Coelacanth: dryknife: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Osama bin Laden is dead, and he wasn't even in Afghanistan. Why the fark are we still there?

[images.smh.com.au image 420x266]

There's a f'n moth that would totally devastate those poppy fields. It would wipe out the heroin trade once and for all in one summer. Only the politicians stand in the way.


Because Afghanistan is flush with technology-sector jobs ... Every time I light the opium pipe I smaile because I know I'm helping our boys stay alive on the front lines.
 
2012-03-11 07:17:20 PM  

tankjr: The difference is that the family of the child run over by your car are not likely to take up arms against you. Whether a legal military action or a cold blooded murder, it's likely that the families of the victims are going to feel the same way. The end result is the same.


Oh sure if you look at it that way, this schmuck may have just made 100 or more new terrorists. Every one he killed had family members. I know if someone killed my child, I'd die avenging the death, put a bullet right in whoever's head I suspected of being responsible or (more likey) die trying. So in that regard, it is the same. I wouldn't care if it was a military order or a lone nut, I'd be out for blood. But from a legal perspective, at least according to U.S. civil and military law, they are quite different, that's all.
 
2012-03-11 07:19:11 PM  

acefox1: Shoot straight ya bastards!! Don't make a mess of it!


mimg.ugo.com

Farkin' groovy.
 
2012-03-11 07:19:17 PM  
Can't wait to hear some more details on this. What's the odds that this guy was a sympathizer, or an al'Qaeda mole planted in the Army to discredit us?
 
2012-03-11 07:23:15 PM  

belhade: Can't wait to hear some more details on this. What's the odds that this guy was a sympathizer, or an al'Qaeda mole planted in the Army to discredit us?


Trollin', trollin', trollin'. Hear them trolls a trollin'
 
2012-03-11 07:29:15 PM  

BronyMedic: The idea that an American Citizen is "No longer deserving of US Justice", a constitutional right, is a dangerous slippery slope. There's a very good reason we don't turn soldiers over to kangaroo courts.


being a us citizen does not guarantee you the right to be tried in US courts, if you commit a crime in another jurisdiction you are on your own, he should be extradited to afghanistan to stand trial, and whatever the fark happens to him, fair trial, kangaroo court, or summary execution with no trial, is his problem not ours.
 
2012-03-11 07:30:23 PM  

belhade: Can't wait to hear some more details on this. What's the odds that this guy was a sympathizer, or an al'Qaeda mole planted in the Army to discredit us?


Better yet if he voted Emocrat as well
 
2012-03-11 07:31:51 PM  

Mugato: Alright, enough of this.

This slanderous treatment of Rogue has to stop.

[images.wikia.com image 300x400]

She even got naked for us in True Blood.


Sometimes cosplay is a good thing

www.nostalgiarush.org
x.annihil.us
media.tumblr.com
4.bp.blogspot.com
farm7.staticflickr.com
www.thenetwerk.com
www.nerdsraging.com
 
2012-03-11 07:35:21 PM  
WTF? You don't kill innocent men, women, and children. What the hell is wrong with people? I don't give a shiat if you've got a "mental illness" or not. That's an unforgivable crime. The military member is a murderer.

I pray to God it's not one of my cousins.
 
2012-03-11 07:48:26 PM  
If Roger Goodell is able to sit in on the Court-Martial this soldier will have a long career fighting for his country.
 
2012-03-11 07:49:19 PM  

DavidVincent: belhade: Can't wait to hear some more details on this. What's the odds that this guy was a sympathizer, or an al'Qaeda mole planted in the Army to discredit us?

Trollin', trollin', trollin'. Hear them trolls a trollin'


Trolling? What, you don't think that's a possibility? I mean, yeah definitely someone can snap and go on a murderous rampage, but I really believe that the other scenario is feasible. I mean, it's happened before...
 
2012-03-11 07:54:06 PM  

Preserved_Killick: [t3.gstatic.com image 259x194]
Revenge for the Concordia!


Between your username and the Wing Commander reference, I may now have a man-crush on you. WC and the O'Brian novels are pretty much my two favorite things ever.
 
2012-03-11 07:54:09 PM  

9beers: beer4breakfast: Most Americans are ignorant about other cultures and how the US is viewed. They are ignorant about the destruction that is caused in their name by the US military. And then they are genuinely perplexed when the blow back finally makes it back to them.

I don't agree with any of that.


Americans are culturally isolated. They need a passport to visit any country, which few have. Few speak a second language, and even fewer have much grasp of history. They also lack the curiosity to overcome this because they feel the US is the greatest country on earth. This is why the narrative for waging war is shaped in terms of good vs. evil by politicians, because Americans as a whole are ignorant enough to actually believe it.
 
2012-03-11 08:02:28 PM  

beer4breakfast: Americans are culturally isolated. They need a passport to visit any country, which few have. Few speak a second language, and even fewer have much grasp of history. They also lack the curiosity to overcome this because they feel the US is the greatest country on earth. This is why the narrative for waging war is shaped in terms of good vs. evil by politicians, because Americans as a whole are ignorant enough to actually believe it.


THIS

I know people who are convinced that America is the only country to have skyscrapers, indoor plumbing, and medicine.
 
2012-03-11 08:26:48 PM  
Lehk: BronyMedic: The idea that an American Citizen is "No longer deserving of US Justice", a constitutional right, is a dangerous slippery slope. There's a very good reason we don't turn soldiers over to kangaroo courts.

being a us citizen does not guarantee you the right to be tried in US courts, if you commit a crime in another jurisdiction you are on your own, he should be extradited to afghanistan to stand trial, and whatever the fark happens to him, fair trial, kangaroo court, or summary execution with no trial, is his problem not ours.


If he were a tourist, or a soldier on leave, you'd have a point.

Unfortunately for your bloody revenge fantasies however, the man was an American Soldier deployed in an active conflict zone. He's under the jursidiction exclusively of the United States Government and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
 
2012-03-11 08:28:52 PM  

9beers: At least his actions can be explained by mental illness, unlike the Afghans who killed people over their book of fairy tales being burned.


I'm not sure I see the difference there Sparky
 
2012-03-11 08:34:14 PM  

downpaymentblues: pedobearapproved: culebra: Cue another round of Right Wing pouting when Obama inevitably issues a statement of apology.

I'm pretty sure he's going to have to offer fellatio to make up for this one.

From a comment on Fox News:

"Obama just announced that he is personally going to provide fe la tio to every Afghani male to compensate for their loss."


There's nothing Republicans hate more than the very idea of civility, or remorse over the senseless murder of civilian children and women.
 
2012-03-11 08:34:47 PM  

Infernalist: We went there because we demanded that the Taliban give up OBL and other AQ leaders. They refused, we went in and kicked over their huts and set up shop.


They asked for evidence, which the US was not about to show them.
 
2012-03-11 08:36:26 PM  

Jacobin: I'm not sure I see the difference there Sparky


Well Jerome, let me explain it to you then. If a person is mentally ill, they may not be responsible for their actions. A person who follows a religion and makes a conscious decision to kill based on their beliefs is responsible for their actions. Understand now or should I switch to visual aids?
 
2012-03-11 08:41:43 PM  

Infernalist: they physically make us go there? lol no. But, did they give us real reason to go there? Yup. Don't mistake Afghanistan for Iraq.


Why not? You apparently can't tell the difference between Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. You know- the place that was the home country for Osama bin Laden and 11 of the 12 WTC terrorists. If you know anything about history, or indeed could use Google, you'd know that the Taliban ASKED us to come pick up bin Laden, who they saw as an unstable outside agitator. We refused. Then 9/11 happened, and we're all "GIVE US BIN LADEN" and they replied "he's not here any more, assholes. He's in Pakistan." Which, of course, we refused to believe, because Pakistan has nuclear weapons, and there's no way America is going to go to war with even a fifth rate opponent if there's a handy sandpit full of unarmed sheepherders nearby.

Wow. My countrymen are so ignorant it makes me want to cry.
 
2012-03-11 08:44:55 PM  

PonceAlyosha: [images.wikia.com image 75x104]

Wizard did it.

/they were part black...dragons.


I totally got all that post - my geek card is plenty safe.

/Am I morally justified in posting this?
 
2012-03-11 08:47:46 PM  
NuclearPenguins: Preserved_Killick: [t3.gstatic.com image 259x194]
Revenge for the Concordia!

Between your username and the Wing Commander reference, I may now have a man-crush on you. WC and the O'Brian novels are pretty much my two favorite things ever.


I can't believe I missed a Wing Commander reference. Niiiiice.
 
2012-03-11 08:47:48 PM  

BronyMedic: It does not matter what the Afgani people want. He committed a crime as an American Soldier, under American Jurisdiction, while serving in a zone of active conflict. According to the rules of the UCMJ, he is the jurisdiction of the United States alone.


And the Afghan people don't give a flying fark what the UCMJ says. Why on earth should they?

Do you for one moment think that any Americans would be satisfied if the situation were reversed, with the US under occupation from the "ChiComs" and some random PLA soldier who doesn't speak more than 2 words of English and has been contemptuous of "whitey" for months came and shot up some God-fearing Christian family in a rural "true America" town?

The law is what the law is, but politics don't always work like that.

Heck, there's all kinds of bad PR even around the various peacetime US bases, when military personnel behave badly and they're not handed over to the local civilian authorities fast enough, and that's just for garden variety jail.

Similarly all the talk about how the Afghans are crazy because they riot over the burning of a Koran - it's not just about the burning of a Koran. That's only the merest straw that finally tips things over the edge. It's just symbolic of all the rest of the shiat that's constantly going on - occupation.

And of course absolutely it's going to suck for all the rest of the foreign (including US) military troops over there too, not that they're the main victims in this at all but yeah, it's not fair to them either.
 
2012-03-11 08:55:44 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Red Shirt Blues: NewportBarGuy: downpaymentblues: Right wing blogs/websites are full of comments saying he is a hero, and wondering why he didn't kill more.

And I doubt a single one of them has ever served a day in uniform.

We'd rather not mingle with the hired help.

With your handle, I'd put it down to self-preservation.


psssssst....it's a Star Trek reference
 
2012-03-11 08:56:11 PM  
I do not believe that this war is going to prove to be a profitable or beneficial enterprise. I could be wrong, but I'll be surprised if I am.
Is there anybody here who REALLY disagrees with me?
 
2012-03-11 09:03:07 PM  
There are no winners in this...only losers.
 
2012-03-11 09:04:45 PM  

jso2897: profitable or beneficial enterprise. I could be wrong, but I'll be surprised if I am.
Is there anybody here who REALLY disagrees with me


Did anybody think it would be profitable? That was said plenty about Iraq, but I don't recall ever hearing it about Afghanistan.
 
2012-03-11 09:06:23 PM  

Bfett20: give him over to the Afghani people. He is no longer deserving of US Justice.


And black people deserve to be poor.
 
2012-03-11 09:23:05 PM  
So this is where our colonialist policy gets us? The goddamned Bushnell Carbineers had more honor than our disgraced military.

i759.photobucket.com
 
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