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(BBC)   Rogue US soldier accused of killing Afghan civilians, Paladin disapproves   (bbc.co.uk ) divider line
    More: News, Afghans, United States, Afghan civilians, Politics of Denmark, newspapers in Denmark, Kandahar Province, Kandahar, International Security Assistance Force  
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11434 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2012 at 1:09 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-11 02:35:50 PM  
Didn't he see Rambo III?
 
2012-03-11 02:37:01 PM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: walkerhound: From MSNBC:

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

Umm...about your religion of peace there, Khan.

How do you say "Hypocrite" in Pashtu?


I love how they immediately jump to "anti-Islamic" we have no idea what his motivations were. They very well could be anti-Muslim. Many of my friends are anti-Muslim after their experience overseas. My therapist and I have worked very hard to change my anti-Islamic feelings. But, we don't know that's why he did it. But immediately that's where they jump because it riles everyone up. It's the same thing politicians do when they pander to their base. All he's doing is pander to his base.

/didn't say haji once
//the doctor would be so proud
 
2012-03-11 02:37:42 PM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: How do you say "Hypocrite" in Pashtu?


Interesting. So you you DO think what the soldier did was wrong, because what the Afghans have done is wrong? Or it is right to kill innocent women and children ONLY when it is "your side"?

I'm trying to understand your logic. I expect I never will, as there seems to be none.
 
2012-03-11 02:37:51 PM  
The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii

obama apologizing for troops burning holy books caused someone to go on a shooting spree?
 
2012-03-11 02:39:03 PM  
His methods were... unsound.
 
2012-03-11 02:39:05 PM  

Silverstaff: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: RussianPooper: SkinnyHead: Dinki: Great. Now Obama will have to offer another apology (which he should), and the wingnuts will roll out their Obama apologizing derp train.

Obama was warned that apologizing the way he did would have a very negative effect on morale. Bad things happen when morale is low like that.

You must be quite limber, because that is an incredible stretch.

Actually it's not. The rank and file despise Obama and I'm certain that Koran apology didn't help one bit.

Don't you dare speak for me.

I am in the United States Army, I am a Registered Democrat, I voted for President Obama and plan to vote for him again, I know many fellow servicemembers who did and will do it again.

Yeah, a whole lot who are conservatives too, probably more of them than they are of us, but don't try and paint everybody in uniform with one brush.

What we all have in common is we volunteered to put on this uniform and go in harms way, our only unifying political ideology is patriotism, not conservatism.

Go back to your bridge, troll.


I would know personally what the rank and file thinks of Obama because I've been in for 13 years and those who support Obama are VERY few and far between. So yeah, that broad brush is fairly effective here.

I would have said I respect your views seeing as how you are, or at least you claim you are, actually serving but since you acted like the one or 2 other self-righteous leftys I know around here.......well........
 
2012-03-11 02:40:32 PM  
9beers: Do me a favor and try to understand what I'm saying. In my experiences, new soldiers were more likely to snap under pressure than experienced ones. I also saw more soldiers snap because of personal matters (usually women) than I did because of combat related ones. Do I know what happened? Of course not. Am I giving my opinion based on my own experiences in the military? Yes I am. If you want to start name calling and accusing people of trolling because of that, you need to slowly back out of the thread and hope nobody notices your ignorance.

Yes. I do believe you're trolling because of the way you put that initial comment.. I also believe you pulled an appeal to authority out of your ass.

The profile of a spree killer, like this Soldier, would typically fall under a person who has been under prolonged stress, possibly PTSD or another mental disorder, and seething anger with no intervention, as well as seeing horrendous things done to their buddies by the people they are supposedly there to protect. It takes cold calculation to hunt down and murder 16 civilians. This isn't something that was a FNG snapping and shooting at the nearest person because his buddy got blown up by an IED. No. He grabbed a weapon, went off base, stormed into civilian houses, and hosed people with bullets.
 
2012-03-11 02:40:42 PM  

Great_Milenko: This is what people wanted, right? Taking off the gloves and waging real war?


well, first 0bama is killing US Citizens overseas so it isn't surprising that this is happening.
.
 
2012-03-11 02:40:50 PM  

9beers: At least his actions can be explained by mental illness, unlike the Afghans who killed people over their book of fairy tales being burned.


Instead of just building new Alts, why not try acting like an adult, instead of a douchebag? It's a lot easier way to avoid having everyone /Ignore you.
 
2012-03-11 02:41:03 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: When in Rome...

We just need to get out of there. The Taliban will continue to throw acid in the faces of uppity women and girls. They will continue to grow heroin and weed while we patrol through their farms. They'll continue to destroy priceless artifacts.

Let the Russians go back in. They have better mines. They look like toys.


I don't want to see the Russians back in there again. It bankrupted them once already.

Afghans need to work it how they want to live for themselves. Sucks to be them...but there you are.
 
2012-03-11 02:41:30 PM  
Your in a hot hell hole, kinda like texas without the cities, or bbq. Your young dumb and full of cumm that cant find an outlet. You can get porn but you cant find 20 seconds of alone time to bust a nut alone and finding a woman is pretty much impossible less you want to join one of those rape squads. Oh and no booze, booze gets you prison or worse....

So yea the surprise isn't that some young man blew away a group of locals in a market while cackling maniacally. The unbelievable surprise is that it isn't happening every farking hour.

Our men need booze they dont have to hide, and they need to get laid on a weekly basis without having to rape their coworker or pay a weeks pay for a diseased local whore that they have to pay her husband and still have to rape. Or maybe next time invade a country that isnt a backwater clusterfark.
 
2012-03-11 02:41:45 PM  

downpaymentblues: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: How do you say "Hypocrite" in Pashtu?

Interesting. So you you DO think what the soldier did was wrong, because what the Afghans have done is wrong? Or it is right to kill innocent women and children ONLY when it is "your side"?

I'm trying to understand your logic. I expect I never will, as there seems to be none.


I think I've made my thoughts pretty clear. It wasn't right but I can't say I blame him and I DEFINITELY don't have any sympathy for the Afghans.
 
2012-03-11 02:43:18 PM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii:
I would know personally what the rank and file thinks of Obama because I've been in for 13 years and those who support Obama are VERY few and far between. So yeah, that broad brush is fairly effective here.


Don't the serving minorities like him?
 
2012-03-11 02:43:22 PM  
DavidVincent: Don't hold your breath waiting for the Republicans or the Democrats to get us out mid-east wars.

Oh, I'm not. But I'm not expecting a racist, Dominionistic creationist who expresses the desire to do things which wouldn't even be possible even with the executive powers given to him as the President of the United States.

Hince, I refer to his supporters trying to get him elected as Emperor King Admiral High First Lord Ron Paul of the United States, esq.
 
2012-03-11 02:43:33 PM  

pippi longstocking: So let me get this straight, getting a bunch of poor stupid impressionable young men and giving them a license to kill and the firepower to level a country is going to create sociopathic behavior? I mean who the hell foresaw this?


Nobody, apparently.
You know, Nam would have been worth it if we'd learned anything from it.
 
2012-03-11 02:44:18 PM  
I blame Charlie Wilson and the CIA. The Russians could still be dealing with these tribes if we hadn't tipped the balance. Wait, no... I blame the military industrial complex and the Fortune 500 for their greed and fear that the red menace might one day take a bite out of the bottom line. No wait, screw all of that.

Clearly this dude's to blame:
blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com

/i guess you had to be there
 
2012-03-11 02:44:37 PM  

DavidVincent: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii:
I would know personally what the rank and file thinks of Obama because I've been in for 13 years and those who support Obama are VERY few and far between. So yeah, that broad brush is fairly effective here.


Don't the serving minorities like him?


There are exactly 4 people who are minorities in my Cav unit and 2 of the hispanic guys can't stand him.
 
2012-03-11 02:45:30 PM  
9beers: BronyMedic: Yes. I do believe you're trolling

Ok, cool. I think you're trolling too.


You can believe what you'd like. But no one who's come out of the sandbox in the last few years would immediately jump to the bit to claim it was a fresh out of basic that did that, ESPECIALLY with all the crap out there right now about PTSD and mental health floating around right now.

I've had enough friends come back from there "changed" to know.
 
2012-03-11 02:45:46 PM  

Silverstaff: Don't you dare speak for me.


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-03-11 02:45:47 PM  

El Freak: No matter how badly you want to pretend that both sides are the same, they're not.


Yes, I understand that things you turn a blind eye to are not seen by you.

The first thing you need to do to be open-minded is to realize that you have a preconceived notion of how things are and that this bias affects your processing of information. Which is why a Kos blog that dehumanizes Republicans and receives overwhelming support from Kos readers is nothing while a random posting on Free Republic is so meaningful. Or why when a famous person quips about how a Republican needs to be stoned, or raped, or run out of the country, it's nothing but when a famous Republican says that Democrats are hurting this country it's hate filled vitriol that's beyond the pale.

The farked up thing here is it's impossible to indict a movement that is so ideologically encompassing and nebulous as left/right with the rhetoric that some fringe elements spew. And yet people do and people defend it.

How about you tackle things on an individual basis. Condemn the stupid stuff for specifically what it says and not looking at the ideological match it has with you first.
 
2012-03-11 02:45:49 PM  

BronyMedic: DavidVincent: Don't hold your breath waiting for the Republicans or the Democrats to get us out mid-east wars.

Oh, I'm not. But I'm not expecting a racist, Dominionistic creationist who expresses the desire to do things which wouldn't even be possible even with the executive powers given to him as the President of the United States.

Hince, I refer to his supporters trying to get him elected as Emperor King Admiral High First Lord Ron Paul of the United States, esq.


I won't comment. Your post speaks for itself.
 
2012-03-11 02:46:00 PM  

doglover: Totally not paragon, dude.


Not that it matters when you get to the end anyhow.
 
2012-03-11 02:46:03 PM  
So, like... How is this guy different from every other active duty member of the military who are either directly or indirectly responsible for murdering civilians? It's kind of the whole reason they're there.

/Graveyard of empires
 
2012-03-11 02:46:24 PM  

apachevoyeur: I blame Charlie Wilson and the CIA. The Russians could still be dealing with these tribes if we hadn't tipped the balance. Wait, no... I blame the military industrial complex and the Fortune 500 for their greed and fear that the red menace might one day take a bite out of the bottom line. No wait, screw all of that.

Clearly this dude's to blame:
[blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com image 303x301]

/i guess you had to be there


Jimmy's fine with that. He so high, he don't care.
 
2012-03-11 02:46:42 PM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: DavidVincent: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii:
I would know personally what the rank and file thinks of Obama because I've been in for 13 years and those who support Obama are VERY few and far between. So yeah, that broad brush is fairly effective here.


Don't the serving minorities like him?

There are exactly 4 people who are minorities in my Cav unit and 2 of the hispanic guys can't stand him.



Thanks.
 
2012-03-11 02:46:49 PM  
BTW, let the Afghans have him. No tears need to be shed for that trash.
 
2012-03-11 02:48:49 PM  

tankjr: So, like... How is this guy different from every other active duty member of the military who are either directly or indirectly responsible for murdering civilians? It's kind of the whole reason they're there.

/Graveyard of empires


Does the difference really need to be pointed out? This guy was not following any order, lawful or otherwise. This was not a case of a bomb being dropped on an incorrect target or collateral damage occurring during a strike on a legitimate military target. This is cold blooded murder.
 
2012-03-11 02:49:09 PM  
www.bikeland.info
 
2012-03-11 02:49:17 PM  
Good. The term 'abysmal failure' doesn't even begin to cover it.


Griftin Rubes: Igor Jakovsky: And we already have some soldiers from that rouge unit that were killing civilians for sport on trial.

/time to vote RON PAUL and get the fark out now.

Ron Paul wants to blow stuff up too! (new window)

Department of Education? Gone! kaaabooom!

 
2012-03-11 02:49:30 PM  

Marcintosh: What does anyone expect from there America. How could anyone expect normal?
Alcohol is bad ok but heroin everything else is banned.
They murder women blacks/gays/muslims for seemingly innocuous issues.
There are feuds that go on for generations.
The only people that don't engage in corruption simply haven't been offered the chance.


I did a little fixin' to remind you that the two countries really aren't that far apart other than our way of life and our culture. This guy should be put to death but I doubt that he will be.
 
2012-03-11 02:50:23 PM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

He is a hero, at least in my book.

American Soldiers are being killed over a farking book that got thrown in the trash by mistake, not to mention all the deaths at the hands of our supposed allies who have been turning their guns on us.

Even after all this, if he ran for Senate I'd still vote for him before any Democrat.


Ha ha you think killing innocent women and children makes someone a hero.
 
2012-03-11 02:51:38 PM  

TheHopeDiamond: BTW, let the Afghans have him. No tears need to be shed for that trash.


Yes, lets turn over a mentally ill individual so he can be executed by the same savages that think the burning of a book should be punishable by death.
 
2012-03-11 02:52:27 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: If this is true, the individuals should be drummed out, stripped of all rank, and hung by the neck until dead.


Agreed.
 
2012-03-11 02:54:28 PM  
who let Leeroy Jenkins sign up?
 
2012-03-11 02:54:56 PM  

GungFu: Nutsac_Jim: He was probably offended at something. Apparently, in soth Asia being offended means you can kill someone legally. No problem, next case...


I take it you mean South Asia. If so...

South Asia?

Get a map, ffs, western infidel.


Pick one, Capt. Rotsky (new window).

I hope enjoyed your 12 minutes of feeling smug about yourself.
 
2012-03-11 02:55:00 PM  

BronyMedic: BudTheSpud: BronyMedic: Bfett20: give him over to the Afghani people. He is no longer deserving of US Justice.

Sure thing. That's totally a legal standard we want to set. Question, on that note. I'm going to go out on a limb her and say you're either a Christian, Atheist/Agnostic, or Jew. Are you cool with us turning you over to Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, Sudan, Qatar, or any other country which has a law against apostasy?

Since when are apostasy and cold-blooded murder the same farking thing?

According to the nations which maintain the death penalty for it, they are the exact same heinous crime. Do think about the prescident you're setting because of your desire for brutal revenge. The idea that an American Citizen is "No longer deserving of US Justice", a constitutional right, is a dangerous slippery slope. There's a very good reason we don't turn soldiers over to kangaroo courts.

So, answer the question there, skippy. Are you ok with that?


Point taken, but what's the alternative, skippy? Court-martial slap on the wrist? Strip his rank? You think any of that will give any solace to the families of those who were slaughtered? Even indefinite detention will be looked upon as the US protecting it's own war criminals. The Taliban are loving the fact we are so hamstrung over these incidents. Makes for great propaganda, that's for sure.
 
2012-03-11 02:55:03 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.


Meanwhile Bradley Manning is in solitary confinement 23 hours a day for supposedly putting people's lives in danger.
 
2012-03-11 02:55:14 PM  

BronyMedic: The idea that an American Citizen is "No longer deserving of US Justice", a constitutional right, is a dangerous slippery slope



Soldiers do not have the same Constitutional rights as civilians. UCMJ outlines their rights.
 
2012-03-11 02:55:25 PM  
Unfortunately, if history shows us anything, it's that this buy will barely even see the inside of a prison cell. They'll hold him for six months, have a farce of a trial, slap him with Time Served, and then maybe, if they're feeling particularly harsh, discharge him. Maybe.

Look up My Lai. Notice how much prison time anyone served.
 
2012-03-11 02:56:05 PM  
He just got confused.

He thought "Hearts and Minds" meant 2 to the chest and 1 to the head...
 
2012-03-11 02:57:04 PM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Silverstaff: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: RussianPooper: SkinnyHead: Dinki: Great. Now Obama will have to offer another apology (which he should), and the wingnuts will roll out their Obama apologizing derp train.

Obama was warned that apologizing the way he did would have a very negative effect on morale. Bad things happen when morale is low like that.

You must be quite limber, because that is an incredible stretch.

Actually it's not. The rank and file despise Obama and I'm certain that Koran apology didn't help one bit.

Don't you dare speak for me.

I am in the United States Army, I am a Registered Democrat, I voted for President Obama and plan to vote for him again, I know many fellow servicemembers who did and will do it again.

Yeah, a whole lot who are conservatives too, probably more of them than they are of us, but don't try and paint everybody in uniform with one brush.

What we all have in common is we volunteered to put on this uniform and go in harms way, our only unifying political ideology is patriotism, not conservatism.

Go back to your bridge, troll.

I would know personally what the rank and file thinks of Obama because I've been in for 13 years and those who support Obama are VERY few and far between. So yeah, that broad brush is fairly effective here.

I would have said I respect your views seeing as how you are, or at least you claim you are, actually serving but since you acted like the one or 2 other self-righteous leftys I know around here.......well........


You don't speak for me either, Chief. I'm out now, but I served 9 months under Obama and voted for him from Iraq. You know what I know of the rank and file (and I was true rank and file, just a grunt humping my machine gun)? There is a very vocal group who can't stand him because he's black, there's a bunch who like him because he's black, a whole bunch who are worried about their careers because he plans on cutting defense and they've only served during wartime. And a whole lot more who don't care either way. I talk to my buddies who are still in almost every day in some capacity or another and most of them just don't care who the president is. The people I know who were in under Clinton and Bush only noticed the difference when we went to war. But guess what? One war is already over and the other is winding down, more or less. Go ahead and paint with your broad brush, but it's not going to help your point or make you right, because you can't possibly speak for everyone. You reek of selection bias.
 
2012-03-11 02:57:19 PM  

FarkinHostile: BronyMedic: The idea that an American Citizen is "No longer deserving of US Justice", a constitutional right, is a dangerous slippery slope


Soldiers do not have the same Constitutional rights as civilians. UCMJ outlines their rights.


DING! We have a winner.

This individual will get his trial and he will be punished by a military court, as he should be.
 
2012-03-11 02:57:32 PM  

BudTheSpud: Point taken, but what's the alternative, skippy? Court-martial slap on the wrist?



You really think that an international incident involving the cold blooded murder of over a dozen civilians with get a slap on the wrist? Really?
 
2012-03-11 02:57:33 PM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

He is a hero, at least in my book.

American Soldiers are being killed over a farking book that got thrown in the trash by mistake, not to mention all the deaths at the hands of our supposed allies who have been turning their guns on us.

Even after all this, if he ran for Senate I'd still vote for him before any Democrat.


Goddamn it I snickered despite myself.
 
2012-03-11 02:58:11 PM  

BudTheSpud: Point taken, but what's the alternative, skippy? Court-martial slap on the wrist? Strip his rank?


You do realize that the military can send people to prison too, right?
 
2012-03-11 02:58:49 PM  

FarkinHostile: BudTheSpud: Point taken, but what's the alternative, skippy? Court-martial slap on the wrist?


You really think that an international incident involving the cold blooded murder of over a dozen civilians with get a slap on the wrist? Really?


You obviously don't know your history.
 
2012-03-11 02:59:19 PM  

FailOut08: PonceAlyosha: Thisbymaster: It is sad and bad for any hope of peace.

The only hope for peace is for us to farking leave Afghanistan to the farking Afghans. Why the fark are we there? Bin Laden was in farking Pakistan, the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, why does Afghanistan matter?

-------------------------

That's the exact question no U.S. political leader or pundit will answer truthfully. There is no hope for any military or civil resolution as long as we continue to occupy and kill their citizens. Whether or not they are terrorists or civilians, provoked or unprovoked, it doesn't matter. We are the occupiers and there is no imminent threat. We should not be there.


Unocal pipeline.
 
2012-03-11 03:00:02 PM  

9beers: BudTheSpud: Point taken, but what's the alternative, skippy? Court-martial slap on the wrist? Strip his rank?

You do realize that the military can send people to prison too, right?


You think prison will be enough? Really? You really think the Afghan people are going to accept that?

Here's a hint. They won't.
 
2012-03-11 03:00:06 PM  
austin_millbarge: Meanwhile Bradley Manning is in solitary confinement 23 hours a day for supposedly putting people's lives in danger.

No, Bradley Manning is in the brig for releasing classified information to a foreign national pursuant to 18 U. S. Code §793, UCMJ Article 92, and UCMJ Articl 106a. It wouldn't matter if he released the dildo preferences of Michelle Obama to the national enquirer. Classified information is classified, and it's release is a crime. This is what annoys me about this. What he did, irregardless of the reasons for it, was dump classified information into the hands of a foreign national. That is a crime, and has been for some time.

BudTheSpud: Point taken, but what's the alternative, skippy? Court-martial slap on the wrist? Strip his rank? You think any of that will give any solace to the families of those who were slaughtered? Even indefinite detention will be looked upon as the US protecting it's own war criminals. The Taliban are loving the fact we are so hamstrung over these incidents. Makes for great propaganda, that's for sure.

Our system of "impartial and blind" justice is not perfect, but it is what separates us from an angry mob looking for vengeance. The man murdered 16 people, and created an international incident. There is no other word for it. He murdered. He was not on a mission or official duty. He took a weapon, went off base, and shot 16 people by invading their homes.

The United States has played the role of hypocrite so much. In this case, we need to act like we talk, and see justice served. Not throw him over the walls and let the angry mob tear him apart.
 
2012-03-11 03:00:23 PM  

rev. dave: How does one express anger in a healthy way while deployed, healthy means not using violence or weapons as stress relief?

Well, I understand that during WWII...hey, you were in France. Need I say more?
In Vietnam, does the phrase "me love you long time" mean anything to you?

Guess what doesn't work over there.
 
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