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(ESPN)   Redskins fans just got Snyder'd again   (espn.go.com) divider line 204
    More: Asinine, Redskins, Chris Mortensen, draft pick, Rams, Adam Schefter, Colts, Thursday Afternoon, Andrew Luck  
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4161 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 Mar 2012 at 4:37 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-10 08:46:13 AM
What makes this even better for the Rams is the rookie wage scale...first rounders are worth more to a team than they used to be, because they don't cost nearly as much to sign. Did the Skins give up too much? Probably, but the Browns would have done the same thing, so the Rams would have gotten this deal either way.

Pretty much sheer luck (no pun intended) in the way things unfolded for them, if you're a Rams fan (both of you), it's gotta feel like Christmas morning.
 
2012-03-10 08:46:33 AM

FriarReb98: SilentStrider: If Shanny is as good developing QBs as he says, it's a no-brainer."

Too bad he isn't. Other than the 12-year veteran he inherited in 1995 and won his only titles with, there aren't any quarterbacks I can think of that got better under him, and the only reason Elway got better is because he (a) aged while Shanahan was there, and (b) got surrounded by talent that Shanahan had nothing to do with procuring or coaching up.

Since Elway, counting fill-ins, Shanahan's teams have had 10 quarterbacks in 10 years, including such luminaries as Griese, Frerotte, Beuerlien, Plummer, Cutler, Grossman and Donovan McNabb. He has been in the playoffs four times and had exactly one win, which was much more courtesy of the defense messing up Brady repeatedly than anything Plummer did.



It is an interesting question- are NFL-level QB's skills nature or nurture?

Is Tom Brady the same guy without Belichick and Co? Brady was certainly not remarkable when he was drafted, but sure came on strong.

There is no question that poor coaching can destroy a QB's talent-but not sure if it goes the other way or not.

With the exception of Green Bay, I can't think of many teams that have had back-to-back elite quarterbacks.;;so maybe its nature. Or maybe good drafting/trading? Or just plain luck?
 
2012-03-10 08:51:18 AM

mr_a: With the exception of Green Bay, I can't think of many teams that have had back-to-back elite quarterbacks.


ryanaustindean.files.wordpress.com

thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com
 
2012-03-10 08:53:10 AM
As a Ram's fan all I can say is
encrypted-tbn1.google.com
 
2012-03-10 08:53:26 AM

Harv72b: Hell, would you be willing to trade that much of your future away for any player? Which of course begs the question of why the Redskins (and so many other teams in the past) are willing to trade so much away for a relative unknown? I cannot begin to fathom the thinking involved, unless of course it really is as simple as Snider realizing they weren't going to get Manning and panicking. Or maybe he believes the Mayans.


You have to remember that Snyder looks at this first and foremost as a business.

The Redskins sell out every year, and have a multi-year waiting list for season tickets. So they don't need a marquee name to draw in the fans.

They are also, I believe (citation may be needed) among to the 3 (if not the most) profitable NFL teams.

Signing RG3 will be cheaper that a current start QB. And it will keep the hope alive for the Redskins fans much longer than Manning. Though they give up the draft picks, the tradeoff is they have more money under the cap for singing free agents (which hasn't really worked for them on the field, but remember, the business is the primary focus)

They still feel "burned" by the McNabb fiasco. Yeah, McNabb is no Manning, but he was at one time among the top QBs in the NFL. They thought at 33 they'd have him for three years, and he didn't even last 2/3 of a season.
Manning is 36, and coming off of an injury that no one knows how it will affect him. So which do they prefer - the risk of Manning not lasting more than a year, or the risk of RG3 turning out to be a bust?

It also is easier to set expectations. RG3 having several bad years will be more acceptable than Manning having a good, not great year.

In sum, the Redskins save money, folks will be more patient with the team with RG3 (who at worst might be a Tebow without the religiosity stuff), the profits will keep rolling in, sales of RG3 Redskins jerseys in DCs will be off the charts, and even if they don't dominate in the field, it will keep the fan base coming and the Redskins rolling in dough.

Sure, nothing is guaranteed, but remember:

www.washingtoncitypaper.com

The devil is in the details.
 
2012-03-10 08:55:11 AM
And they say that in this economy it's hard to get a mortgage. The Redskins just mortgaged their future.
 
2012-03-10 08:55:24 AM

LucklessWonder: mr_a: With the exception of Green Bay, I can't think of many teams that have had back-to-back elite quarterbacks.

[ryanaustindean.files.wordpress.com image 400x600]

[thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com image 412x364]


Could have sworn I typed "with the exception of Green Bay and San Fran"... too early in the AM I guess. My point was there do not seem to be many coaching staffs that just pump them out.
 
2012-03-10 09:22:15 AM
RG3 is the next Andre Ware.
 
2012-03-10 09:27:26 AM
As a Rams fan (feel free to make fun of me)....this pleases me.

The best thing about this is there's finally a front office and coaching staff in place that has a farking chance to do something wise with all those picks.
 
2012-03-10 09:31:55 AM

9beers: RG3 is the next Andre Ware.


Which would still be an upgrade over the Rex/Beck pu-pu platter.
 
2012-03-10 09:36:30 AM

Harv72b: They didn't trade down that far in the first round this year, and with two early 2nd rounders they can trade up to the bottom of the first as well.


You know that's an excellent point. Even with the new CBA and the wage scale, teams love those early second rounders. If there's another guy in the first round the Rams really covet, they could offer those two second rounders to almost any team in the remaining first round and get a "yes".

Here's a fun one: What if the Rams offer those two second rounders for Cleveland's #4? Browns don't need it for RG3 now, and they still have a lower first rounder to get talent there. Two more second round picks gives them license sign a FA QB like Flynn and still take a flyer on one of the second-tier QB's while still having picks left over to plug other holes. And it gives the Rams the #4 and #6, pretty much guarantees them Blackmon, and maybe allows them to get like Trent Richardson, or Claiborne to help shore up the D?
 
2012-03-10 09:36:55 AM

oh_please: What makes this even better for the Rams is the rookie wage scale...first rounders are worth more to a team than they used to be, because they don't cost nearly as much to sign. Did the Skins give up too much? Probably, but the Browns would have done the same thing, so the Rams would have gotten this deal either way.

Pretty much sheer luck (no pun intended) in the way things unfolded for them, if you're a Rams fan (both of you), it's gotta feel like Christmas morning.



Not buying it at all. If the Browns would have done it also, why didn't they? They have better draft picks to deal. Why would St. Louis pass on a better offer to take the Redskins package? The only ones saying that the Browns would have given the same deal work in the Redskins PR office.

Also, though it pains me to say it as a Browns fan "we just did what the Browns would have anyway" is not exactly a road map to the Super Bowl.
 
2012-03-10 09:37:23 AM
You'd think that the example of the Patriots in the Belichick era would show that you build a winning team in the later rounds of the draft. Yeah, you have to have a few stars, but you build a complete team, which, given the restrictions of the salary cap, means using less heralded players.

But Lil' Danny is one of those idiots who thinks he knows better, and no one can convince him otherwise.
 
2012-03-10 09:41:07 AM
Everyone seems to think the Redskins dropped the ball again on this trade but what other options do you have at this point? You can keep Grossman and have another 6-10/5-11 season or you can try and get a talented QB. It doesn't seem likely that Manning is going to sign with them so why not pull the trigger on this one?

The Redskins already have a decent defense and can win 6 or 7 games with Grossman throwing at least 2 picks a game. RG3 can't be worse than Grossman throwing the ball and now you add in the fact that he can run too and you have an immediate upgrade.
 
2012-03-10 09:41:17 AM

jayhawk88: Harv72b: They didn't trade down that far in the first round this year, and with two early 2nd rounders they can trade up to the bottom of the first as well.

You know that's an excellent point. Even with the new CBA and the wage scale, teams love those early second rounders. If there's another guy in the first round the Rams really covet, they could offer those two second rounders to almost any team in the remaining first round and get a "yes".

Here's a fun one: What if the Rams offer those two second rounders for Cleveland's #4? Browns don't need it for RG3 now, and they still have a lower first rounder to get talent there. Two more second round picks gives them license sign a FA QB like Flynn and still take a flyer on one of the second-tier QB's while still having picks left over to plug other holes. And it gives the Rams the #4 and #6, pretty much guarantees them Blackmon, and maybe allows them to get like Trent Richardson, or Claiborne to help shore up the D?


Doesn't work. Front office personnel work off a point value chart when determining the worth of draft picks. A #4 overall is worth 1800 points, which is equivalent to the first three picks in the second round AND a later round pick. Two second rounders aint gonna get them the #4 overall.

Here's the chart: Link (new window)
 
2012-03-10 09:46:30 AM

puffy999: Think about what the Colts and Redskins are giving up in order to draft the two quarterbacks at the top of this draft.


What are the Colts giving up?
 
2012-03-10 09:49:41 AM
Why do black people play for the redskins? would native americans play for the harlem blackies with the same 'meh' attitude?
 
2012-03-10 09:53:23 AM

Di Atribe: Warthog: I've been on the fence about renewing my Redskins season tickets. This may push me off the fence for good. Maybe I'll become an Argonauts fan instead.

If you guys get RG3, then you're probably gonna want to hang onto those tickets. That being said, I hope RG3 goes to either the Colts or the Skins further Snyder it up and they draft someone else. I'd hate to have to hate him.


If they don't get RG3 they get Luck, so either way they basically get what they want.

The problem is that, like most teams that make this kind of deal, they aren't just a quarterback away from being good.
 
2012-03-10 09:55:24 AM

VvonderJesus: Worse trade:

A) Giving up 4 draft picks for Julio Jones

B) Giving up 3 draft picks for RG3

Only time will tell.

/option C is six draft picks and 5 players for Herschel Walker
//the answer is always C
///sigh


Two meaningless fourths, two late 1s and a late 2 is waaaaaaaaaay less than a high 1, high 2 and two other 1s that may be high.

The falcons have problems two late 1s and a late 2 won't fix, and Julio is a monster.
 
2012-03-10 09:56:18 AM

Great clown Pagliacci's pick-me-up: Dear Washington:
How about a strangers on a MARC train scenario: Snyder for Angelos.
Sincerely
Baltimore


Dammit, I'm an O's and Skins fan. I must have been a real dick in my previous life.

I'm torn on this trade. If he's Cam Newton, we'll be thinking this is a bargain. If he's Heath Schuler, we just set the franchise back 10 more years.
 
2012-03-10 09:58:41 AM

jayhawk88: Harv72b: They didn't trade down that far in the first round this year, and with two early 2nd rounders they can trade up to the bottom of the first as well.

You know that's an excellent point. Even with the new CBA and the wage scale, teams love those early second rounders. If there's another guy in the first round the Rams really covet, they could offer those two second rounders to almost any team in the remaining first round and get a "yes".

Here's a fun one: What if the Rams offer those two second rounders for Cleveland's #4? Browns don't need it for RG3 now, and they still have a lower first rounder to get talent there. Two more second round picks gives them license sign a FA QB like Flynn and still take a flyer on one of the second-tier QB's while still having picks left over to plug other holes. And it gives the Rams the #4 and #6, pretty much guarantees them Blackmon, and maybe allows them to get like Trent Richardson, or Claiborne to help shore up the D?


This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. With the rookie wage scale top picks are more valuable than ever. Those picks in the thirties wouldn't get the rams into the top half of round one under any circumstances
 
2012-03-10 10:00:45 AM
The Browns suddenly get that glazed crackhead look on their faces as Justin Blackmon looks available at #4. What could go wrong drafting some can't-miss receiving talent this high? Bwhahaha.
 
2012-03-10 10:04:19 AM

LucklessWonder: [img.photobucket.com image 301x402]

The line's getting better, they have the cap space to pursue a WR (VJax?) and maybe some depth at guard...

Could be good for the 'Skins.

I'd rather have the picks though. Hope for the best, and maybe draft Barkley in 2013. But, I can get behind an RGIII-led Redskins team.


Shouldn't that be GRIFFIN with a #3 on the back? Yes, I know it's taken, but probably not for long.
 
2012-03-10 10:06:45 AM

downtownkid: oh_please: What makes this even better for the Rams is the rookie wage scale...first rounders are worth more to a team than they used to be, because they don't cost nearly as much to sign. Did the Skins give up too much? Probably, but the Browns would have done the same thing, so the Rams would have gotten this deal either way.

Pretty much sheer luck (no pun intended) in the way things unfolded for them, if you're a Rams fan (both of you), it's gotta feel like Christmas morning.


Not buying it at all. If the Browns would have done it also, why didn't they? They have better draft picks to deal. Why would St. Louis pass on a better offer to take the Redskins package? The only ones saying that the Browns would have given the same deal work in the Redskins PR office.

Also, though it pains me to say it as a Browns fan "we just did what the Browns would have anyway" is not exactly a road map to the Super Bowl.


What I read said the browns also offered 3 #1s but you can safely assume that's the 4 pick, 21, and a 2013 1st. If you think the redskins are going to keep sucking, you would rather claim 6 overall, 39 overall, a strong 2013 no. 1 and a strong 2014 no. 1. It's basically certainty/immediacy with the browns or a little less of that with a potentially historic windfall if griffin busts
 
2012-03-10 10:11:55 AM

jayhawk88: Harv72b: They didn't trade down that far in the first round this year, and with two early 2nd rounders they can trade up to the bottom of the first as well.

You know that's an excellent point. Even with the new CBA and the wage scale, teams love those early second rounders. If there's another guy in the first round the Rams really covet, they could offer those two second rounders to almost any team in the remaining first round and get a "yes".

Here's a fun one: What if the Rams offer those two second rounders for Cleveland's #4? Browns don't need it for RG3 now, and they still have a lower first rounder to get talent there. Two more second round picks gives them license sign a FA QB like Flynn and still take a flyer on one of the second-tier QB's while still having picks left over to plug other holes. And it gives the Rams the #4 and #6, pretty much guarantees them Blackmon, and maybe allows them to get like Trent Richardson, or Claiborne to help shore up the D?


Wait, so....

#2 pick is worth #6, and 2 future firsts and a 2nd?

#4 pick is worth 2 2nds?

That's quite a drop off there. Even Cleveland isn't that dumb.
 
2012-03-10 10:13:52 AM
cdn.bleacherreport.net

This is a great trade! It will work out well for them.
 
2012-03-10 10:14:47 AM

WhyteRaven74: He is, but the Redskins went from 8 and 8 the year before he was hired to 6 and 10 and then 5 and 11.


Incorrect. They were 4-12 in Zorn's second year, not 8-8.
 
2012-03-10 10:16:08 AM
I was counting on Snyder to do this, and for once, I'm glad he did. QB was obviously their biggest need, so picking someone who could be a franchise guy would be the first step in rebuilding (let's face it, a joke of a year like last year couldn't even be classified as "rebuilding"). I can see some people are frustrated, but the Redskins need a kick in the pants. They could no doubt use the 1st round picks the next two seasons, but it has been a long time since they've had an opportunity to pick up someone like this who actually stands a chance to change the culture of the team.

There are no guarantees in football, and being unwilling to take a few risks (and no, I'm not talking of the type like Deion Sanders or Jeff George at the ends of their careers) may leave a team in a position exactly like the one the Redskins have been in for many seasons. This investment may take a few seasons to pan out, but with the cap room they currently have, they can build a team around RG3 (or possibly Andrew Luck) that would at least give him a chance to develop fast.
 
2012-03-10 10:17:31 AM

jayhawk88: Here's a fun one: What if the Rams offer those two second rounders for Cleveland's #4? Browns don't need it for RG3 now, and they still have a lower first rounder to get talent there. Two more second round picks gives them license sign a FA QB like Flynn and still take a flyer on one of the second-tier QB's while still having picks left over to plug other holes. And it gives the Rams the #4 and #6, pretty much guarantees them Blackmon, and maybe allows them to get like Trent Richardson, or Claiborne to help shore up the D?


Ummm, no. Like if a Baltimore or a New England felt like trading down to secure an extra 3rd rounder or something, or maybe trade both 2nd round picks for something in the low 20s if somebody falls; there's no way in hell the Rams could get that #4 pick without giving up most of what they got from Washington.
 
2012-03-10 10:25:08 AM

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: Serious Black: For that price, RG3 better be JC2.

You rang?

[kysdc.com image 580x400]


Well done.
 
2012-03-10 10:29:58 AM
In two or three years, the Skins could be playoff contenders. You can't pay too much for a good QB. Ask the giants.
 
2012-03-10 10:33:15 AM

CavalierEternal: Three firsts and a second? For one player? Goddamn, if there's anyone in the league capable of out-derping the Browns, it's Dan Snyder.


Its amazing anyone is this crazy, shocking anyone would give up that much for rgIII, the guy was good at Baylor but this seems like too much for him. Maybe its just what the market would bear, but then given Snyder's track record, maybe he should have taken a step back and just said no.
 
2012-03-10 10:37:42 AM

CognaciousThunk: LucklessWonder: [img.photobucket.com image 301x402]

The line's getting better, they have the cap space to pursue a WR (VJax?) and maybe some depth at guard...

Could be good for the 'Skins.

I'd rather have the picks though. Hope for the best, and maybe draft Barkley in 2013. But, I can get behind an RGIII-led Redskins team.

Shouldn't that be GRIFFIN with a #3 on the back? Yes, I know it's taken, but probably not for long.


He's #10 at Baylor, I figure they'd let him keep his number.
 
2012-03-10 10:38:58 AM

Lost Thought 00: In two or three years, the Skins could be playoff contenders.



Only if Danny dies within those 2 or 3 years. Maybe from tainted airline peanuts.
 
2012-03-10 10:40:21 AM

Primitive Screwhead: [cdn.bleacherreport.net image 277x400]

This is a great trade! It will work out well for them.


came for this. Leaving pleased.
 
2012-03-10 10:42:40 AM
I guess I have to vocalize my opinions. We've been doing so well with our first rounders the previous few years. Brian Orakpo was pretty much handed to us on a silver platter (it took all of 17 seconds for us to phone it in to Goodell) and we traded back last year and still wound up with an amazing rookie in Ryan Kerrigan. Trent Williams hasn't lived up to his potential, but he's improving, which is more than can be said about Russel Okung.
I've watched RG3 all year, from the first game shootout to the bowl game. He plays real well against bad college defenses. He's got speed but will probably rarely use it except to avoid a sack with the Redskins. I want the kid to be real good, since he's such a likable guy. But to put any rookie under this much stress (more so than Julio Jones, who was slated to be the 2nd best WR on the team, not the leader of the entire offense from day one) simply by trading up for him is unfair.
I, and everybody else, won't be able to know if this trade was worth it for at least 3 years, unless something drastic happens. It's also hard to predict what picks they will be losing since nobody knows who would have been the starting QB the next two years.
What bums me out the most is that the team will be sacrificing elite defenders like Orakpo and Kerrigan for the next few years.
 
2012-03-10 10:47:24 AM

LucklessWonder: CognaciousThunk: LucklessWonder: [img.photobucket.com image 301x402]

The line's getting better, they have the cap space to pursue a WR (VJax?) and maybe some depth at guard...

Could be good for the 'Skins.

I'd rather have the picks though. Hope for the best, and maybe draft Barkley in 2013. But, I can get behind an RGIII-led Redskins team.

Shouldn't that be GRIFFIN with a #3 on the back? Yes, I know it's taken, but probably not for long.

He's #10 at Baylor, I figure they'd let him keep his number.


True; on the other hand, Snyder might hint at wanting something more... trademarkable for him.
 
2012-03-10 10:48:11 AM

iron_city_ap: Primitive Screwhead: [cdn.bleacherreport.net image 277x400]
This is a great trade! It will work out well for them.
came for this. Leaving pleased.


The kicker of course, is he traded with the 'Skins.

/something, something, history repeating...
 
2012-03-10 10:50:15 AM
So does this mean the skins decided to release the dagron?
 
2012-03-10 10:50:56 AM

Primitive Screwhead: iron_city_ap: Primitive Screwhead: [cdn.bleacherreport.net image 277x400]
This is a great trade! It will work out well for them.
came for this. Leaving pleased.

The kicker of course, is he traded with the 'Skins.

/something, something, history repeating...


The 'Skins ended up with Champ Bailey and Lavar Arrington from the draft picks in that trade, right?
 
2012-03-10 10:51:31 AM

Dr J Zoidberg: So does this mean the skins decided to release the dagron?


I believe he's a UFA.
 
2012-03-10 10:56:55 AM
This is good news for the Rams. They'll be able to stock their roster with young exciting players over the next three years in anticipation of their move to L.A.
 
2012-03-10 10:57:38 AM

pnhfitz: This is good news for the Rams. They'll be able to stock their roster with young exciting players over the next three years in anticipation of their move to L.A London.


FTFY
 
2012-03-10 11:01:30 AM
PREVIOUS QB'S DRAFTED 1-2

1999:
1- Tim Couch, Cleveland
2- Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia

1998:
1- Peyton Manning, Indianapolis
2- Ryan Leaf, San Diego

1993:
1- Drew Bledsoe, New England
2- Rick Mirer, Seattle

1971:
1- Jim Plunkett, New England
2- Archie Manning, New Orleans

1954:
1- Bobby Garrett, Cleveland
2- Lamar McHan, Chicago

Take from it what you will.
 
2012-03-10 11:16:19 AM

CavalierEternal: Three firsts and a second? For one player? Goddamn, if there's anyone in the league capable of out-derping the Browns, it's Dan Snyder.


I say this is a blessing in disguise for the Browns. Now, rather than going after a shiny new gun in the draft, they can get bullets there, and get their gun (Flyinn) in free agency.

...and if worse comes to worst, hey...Colt McCoy is not the worst QB in the world, no matter how much Browns fans think he is because he's the starter now, and everyone knows the average Browns fan's favorite player is the backup quarterback.
 
2012-03-10 11:18:23 AM

kronicfeld: I have exactly zero faith that even if RF3 is ubertalented that the staff will have an competence in properly developing him. There's a reason talent comes to DC to die.


...because it already lived out most of its life elsewhere?

There's a difference between putting money in 35-year-old free agents and putting money in 22-year-old draftees.
 
2012-03-10 11:20:05 AM
So, will it be Matt Flynn or Peyton Manning wearing the Browns jersey next season?
 
2012-03-10 11:24:00 AM
Oh thank Tebow! We didn't make the worst trade of the year!
 
2012-03-10 11:36:04 AM
OK, so some people think a great franchise quarterback is just what the skins needed on offense.

I would counter that he won't be much better than Sexy Rexy if he's flat on his back.

Was the Skins offensive line plagued by injuries last year, or was that their starting lineup?
 
2012-03-10 11:40:05 AM

born_yesterday: OK, so some people think a great franchise quarterback is just what the skins needed on offense.

I would counter that he won't be much better than Sexy Rexy if he's flat on his back.

Was the Skins offensive line plagued by injuries last year, or was that their starting lineup?


Injuries. They have an okay starting line, but NO depth.
 
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