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(MSNBC)   One in four pilots fight fatigue, having to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes   (overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 110
    More: Obvious, National Sleep Foundation, train operator, Walter Reed  
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2196 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Mar 2012 at 10:36 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-09 02:57:05 PM  
LOL.
 
2012-03-09 03:13:32 PM  
Awesome headline. +1 lol.
 
2012-03-09 03:42:52 PM  
What a pisser.
 
2012-03-09 04:52:02 PM  
If subby isn't on TotalFark, I will sponsor them for a month. That is GOLD.
 
2012-03-09 06:34:03 PM  
Great headline, submitter
 
2012-03-09 07:13:01 PM  
ha. good headline, like from that movie Airport.
 
2012-03-09 07:15:30 PM  
Surely you can't be serious.
 
2012-03-09 07:15:41 PM  
What?
 
2012-03-09 07:39:55 PM  
Roger.

What?

What's the vector Victor?
 
2012-03-09 07:41:59 PM  
virginiavirtucon.files.wordpress.com

I loved watching him in those 2 movies, absolutely hilarious...I wonder what he is doing lately...ohhh, nm.
 
2012-03-09 07:52:21 PM  
Subby, you are one Magnificent Bastard!
 
2012-03-09 08:10:14 PM  
Striker, listen, and you listen close: flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle, just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
 
2012-03-09 08:44:18 PM  
Subby, you just added something to my netflix queue. Out yourself and be rewarded with TF!
 
2012-03-09 09:41:45 PM  
*colf glap*
 
2012-03-09 09:58:35 PM  
shiat. It's a Goddamned waste of time.
 
2012-03-09 10:09:21 PM  
What can you make out of this?
 
2012-03-09 10:10:35 PM  

texdent: What can you make out of this?


Oh, I can make a hat, a brooch, a pterodactyl....
 
2012-03-09 10:41:26 PM  
Did I leave the iron on?
 
2012-03-09 10:43:31 PM  
I bet that fatigue makes it hard to concentrate (concentrate-concentrate).
 
2012-03-09 10:44:25 PM  
I'd have made a lousy pilot. I know they tend to catch a few winks here and there while the other watches the controls, but I twitch when I sleep seated. "The captain apologizes for the air turbulence."
 
2012-03-09 10:44:49 PM  
Oh goody, another one of these threads!

Well, let's see. First the earth cooled. And then the dinosaurs came, but they got too big and fat, so they all died and they turned into oil. And then the Arabs came and they bought Mercedes Benzes. And Prince Charles started wearing all of Lady Di's clothes. I couldn't believe it.
 
2012-03-09 10:45:46 PM  
i40.tinypic.com

You... ever... seen a grown man naked?
 
2012-03-09 10:46:07 PM  
Jim never vomits at home.
 
2012-03-09 10:46:43 PM  
Over Macho Grande?

I'll never get over Macho Grande.
 
2012-03-09 10:47:59 PM  
Do they know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course they don't, no one does. It never happens. Sorry, that's a dumb question... skip that.
 
2012-03-09 10:51:21 PM  
This is news?
One in four anybody fights fatigue
 
2012-03-09 10:54:04 PM  
Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.
 
2012-03-09 10:57:21 PM  

whatshisname: This is news?
One in four anybody fights fatigue


This...

And there's a sale at Penney's!
 
2012-03-09 10:57:47 PM  
i43.tinypic.com

I just want to tell you both good luck, we're all counting on you.
 
2012-03-09 10:58:06 PM  
It was a rough place - the seediest dive on the wharf. Populated with every reject and cutthroat from Bombay to Calcutta. It's worse than Detroit.
 
2012-03-09 11:01:43 PM  

CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.


i.i.com.com
Get back to us when the "pretty automated process" becomes a completely automated process.
 
2012-03-09 11:05:12 PM  
You'd think they'd know by now not to have the fish.
 
2012-03-09 11:06:12 PM  

Pockafrusta: It was a rough place - the seediest dive on the wharf. Populated with every reject and cutthroat from Bombay to Calcutta. It's worse than Detroit.


I had to ask the guy next to me to pinch me to make sure I wasn't dreaming.
 
2012-03-09 11:09:04 PM  
It's okay, they have instruments.

idiotflashback.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-03-09 11:09:35 PM  
There are a lot more airline pilots making less than $50k a year than there are making more than $100k a year.

Those $250k/yr salaries you hear about are only in the last few years of a career and only for a very small few lucky guys.

Current FAA rules all pilots to work up to 16 hours duty straight after only 8 hours away from the plane. Not rest... just off the airplane.
 
2012-03-09 11:11:58 PM  
Subby is my new hero!

/ Golf clap
 
2012-03-09 11:14:39 PM  

King Something: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

[i.i.com.com image 512x307]
Get back to us when the "pretty automated process" becomes a completely automated process.


And if one failure of a pilot out of 1000, fails due to yawning past the autopilot, I guess we should all quiver in our boots and throw them another $100K in salary... hopefully in new pilot recruiting, and culling of the old.
 
2012-03-09 11:15:24 PM  

CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.


Sure, nowadays 95% of the trip is largely monitoring an automated process. It's that other 5%, takeoff and landing, that's always been the most dangerous and requires trained human pilots.
 
2012-03-09 11:15:43 PM  
It really is a boring job. Until it isn't and that is when they have to be conscious. Too much automation can have consequences. B2 Bomber pilots have sleeping cots in the pit as a real requirement. One up, one down...the hours slug by.....Commercial routes are of course no where near the kinds of legs the military flies but having said that, the controls the FAA has on pilot rest are totally bogus.
 
2012-03-09 11:18:49 PM  
Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?
 
2012-03-09 11:20:14 PM  

95629: There are a lot more airline pilots making less than $50k a year than there are making more than $100k a year.

Those $250k/yr salaries you hear about are only in the last few years of a career and only for a very small few lucky guys.

Current FAA rules all pilots to work up to 16 hours duty straight after only 8 hours away from the plane. Not rest... just off the airplane.


The FAA rule is there because of the retarded salaries. The airlines would likely not try to keep the pilots in the seat round the clock unless it was too expensive to hire additional pilots. Seems to me the FAA are just learning from the rules the truck drivers caused to exist. Except in their case, the truck drivers got paid by the mile (carrot), where as the pilots are on a fixed salary.

Different incentive causes to be honest, but same reason for the rules. Tired people do not perform well.
 
2012-03-09 11:22:50 PM  
Joey, have you ever been in a... in a Turkish prison?
 
2012-03-09 11:27:44 PM  
I know but this guy has no flying experience at all. He's a menace to himself and everything else in the air... yes, birds too.
 
2012-03-09 11:29:02 PM  
So... one in four pilots just don't work hard enough on defense?

They don't really run down court?

And they don't really try, except during play-offs?
 
2012-03-09 11:33:56 PM  
blog.auntjanenation.com
 
2012-03-09 11:35:41 PM  

WhoIsWillo: If subby isn't on TotalFark, I will sponsor them for a month. That is GOLD.


Thanks.

I wish.

/subby
 
2012-03-09 11:36:17 PM  
subby, I think I lurve you
 
2012-03-09 11:36:22 PM  

King Something: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

[i.i.com.com image 512x307]
Get back to us when the "pretty automated process" becomes a completely automated process.


This.

I'll gladly pay pilots whatever they want to guarantee not dying that other 1% of the time when the autopilot says "Gee, that's not part of my programming."
 
2012-03-09 11:42:00 PM  

CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.


And all of the required training, flight hours, sucktastic schedules, and responsibility... bus driver, sure.
 
2012-03-09 11:42:25 PM  

foo monkey: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

Sure, nowadays 95% of the trip is largely monitoring an automated process. It's that other 5%, takeoff and landing, that's always been the most dangerous and requires trained human pilots.


You think bus drivers didn't need to train? Do they expect $250K salary? Same thing with truck drivers.

The only difference is incentive for the long hours, or the lack of them. The FAA and equivalent organizations require "X" hours away from the wheel, and X amount of training. Those are only check and balance moves to make the ruthless companies meet minimum safety requirements. But you think that the airlines, oil companies, or similar companies aren't trying to maneuver around those things all the time?

The owners of the assets/company figure out how best to skin/scam the consumer out of their dollars and impress the stockholders. You think that drivers, pilots, or IT analysts for that matter exist to serve the public good? Or that companies exist to worry about the public?

And the worst assumption of all? That we entrusted the dirty farts we elected into office to oversee our best welfare. Isn't that a hoot.

But back to your original point? Yes, I believe that a monkey could learn to deal with the 5% of what was not automated given proper training in regards to flying a plane. The 1% of that 5% that failed we could learn to deal with. Look at BP and the impact of their sloppy/cheap procedures in protecting the environment they were entrusted to work in. I wonder why they are already back to making a sickeningly amount of profit already. Whats $70Bn in fines/recompense when they can make that up in one or two quarters?
 
2012-03-09 11:42:47 PM  

CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.


250K? what are you smoking pilots are lucky if they make $50k a year. 16K is not unheard of for a new commercial pilot.
 
2012-03-09 11:43:07 PM  

CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.


Holy crap. I have found the dumbest person on the planet. No, really, CasperImproved is just stupid as hell.
 
2012-03-09 11:47:37 PM  

CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.


Have you tried killing yourself lately? Maybe its time to try again.
 
2012-03-09 11:49:12 PM  
I haven't seen anything this bad since the Anita Bryant concert.
 
2012-03-09 11:53:03 PM  
img256.imageshack.us

They knew what they were getting themselves into...
 
2012-03-09 11:54:58 PM  

Raddamant: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

Holy crap. I have found the dumbest person on the planet. No, really, CasperImproved is just stupid as hell.


I'd advise him to get into a plane piloted by a freshly trained bus driver, then come back and post again.
 
2012-03-09 11:56:51 PM  
There is just no parking in a red zone
 
2012-03-10 12:02:07 AM  

CasperImproved: foo monkey: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

Sure, nowadays 95% of the trip is largely monitoring an automated process. It's that other 5%, takeoff and landing, that's always been the most dangerous and requires trained human pilots.

You think bus drivers didn't need to train? Do they expect $250K salary? Same thing with truck drivers.

The only difference is incentive for the long hours, or the lack of them.


False equivalency. The time, cost, and education required to be a professional pilot exceeds that of a professional bus driver by several orders of magnitude. The compensation for a pilot should far exceed that of a bus driver.
 
2012-03-10 12:02:36 AM  

danno_to_infinity: subby, I think I lurve you


But what are you so afraid of?
 
2012-03-10 12:04:07 AM  

geocacherphil: There is just no parking in a red zone


Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion.
 
2012-03-10 12:04:44 AM  
Can I troll when I want.... or what?

/lol
 
2012-03-10 12:14:29 AM  
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.

Knock yourself a pro, slic!
 
2012-03-10 12:22:02 AM  
As a pilot, let me say this: it depends on the airframe
 
2012-03-10 12:23:58 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Surely you can't be serious.


images.cheezburger.com
 
2012-03-10 12:26:10 AM  
After literally years of studying and aviation nerditude I just logged my first hour a few days ago, complete with the obligatory "Holy shiat, I know what all these round things do. But what does it all mean!?" moment. It is good to see that not everyone thinks the way CasperImproved does.
 
2012-03-10 12:28:52 AM  

Phoenix_M: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

250K? what are you smoking pilots are lucky if they make $50k a year. 16K is not unheard of for a new commercial pilot.


*civilian trained pilot
 
2012-03-10 12:34:01 AM  
I've got to concentrate... concentrate... concentrate... I've got to concentrate... concentrate... concentrate... Hello?... hello... hello... Echo... echo... echo... Pinch hitting for Pedro Borbon... Manny Mota... Mota... Mota...
 
2012-03-10 12:36:16 AM  
I am not the first, but subby this headline is full of win.
 
2012-03-10 12:37:12 AM  
As a current airline pilot, I'm finding some of these comments equal parts hilarious/enraging.

Yes, we use the autopilot most of the time, and for good reasons.

First, humans are absolutely horrible at doing mundane, monotonous tasks. Like holding a plane at an exact attitude for hours on end. George can hold altitude and heading better than I ever can because he never gets tired, or has a thought beyond "heading, altitude, airspeed." I've flown more than a few flights with the autopilot deferred, and you are wiped afterward. And I mean compared to me at the end of my normal 13hr duty day.

Second, with Jorje doing the mundane stuff, I'm now able to spend more time monitoring the plane (are we descending fast enough to make that crossing restriction?) and the environment (WTF is that little cessna doing 500ft below me? Which way does the radar suggest we go to get around these 70000ft tall thunderstorms? Lets see what altitude's got a better ride so you folks in the back have a smooth, enjoyable ride.)

Third, its to keep us fresh. think of your last trip from the states to Europe, or a car trip to Disney World. You were wiped when you got there, weren't you? Now imagine doing that for 4 straight days. I already alluded to it, but hand flying a 80000lb hunk of metal stable in a constantly changing environment going 500kts saps your strength like little else. I spend the first day home just recovering. You want me alert and on the ball when the weather goes to pot.

You want me up front when this (new window)happens. We're here for when something bad happens and the automated systems go, "fark it, you get this one."

And for the trouble of doing what I do, I'm paid the astronomical sum of $37927 (this past year). I've been doing this for 5 years now, I'm not a noob.

To fly this:
cdn-www.airliners.net

I don't demand $250k to do what I do. but then I fly "one of those little planes" that only kills 80 people when it crashes. However, I think that those that fly the A380s & 747s have earned those big paychecks. The guys & gals up front are responsible for every soul behind them.

Remember, when a doctor screws up, one person dies. And we're willing to pay them as much money as we can throw at them.

When a pilot screws up, 250 people die all at once. But god forbid we gotta pay more than $99 to go from one side of the planet to another in less than 18hrs.

Oh, and we quote Airplane constantly up front. We do spend most of our day in really thin air, in our defense...
 
2012-03-10 12:38:16 AM  

SoCalSurfer: Phoenix_M: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

250K? what are you smoking pilots are lucky if they make $50k a year. 16K is not unheard of for a new commercial pilot.

*civilian trained pilot


Don't want to be in your sights :)

Yah, I was talking BS for the fun of it for a while and it was fun. But I honestly would have liked to be a pilot from around 1920 ~ 1940. Those would have been fun times. I have pilot envy in that respect. I can also imagine it's no where near as fun as it used to be unless you are a private pilot. Maybe even better with an experimental (prop preferred).

/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background
 
2012-03-10 12:43:04 AM  
CasperImproved:


/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background

Great Lakes Airlines

Link (new window)

remember, those hourly rates are per flight hour, which we are limited to a max of 1000 in a year by law
 
2012-03-10 12:44:40 AM  

CasperImproved: foo monkey: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?


But back to your original point? Yes, I believe that a monkey could learn to deal with the 5% of what was not automated given proper training in regards to flying a plane. The 1% of that 5% that failed we could learn to deal with. Look at BP and the impact of their sloppy/cheap procedures in protecting the environment they were entrusted to work in. I wonder why they are already back to making a sickeningly amount of profit already. Whats $70Bn in fines/recompense when they can make that up in one or two quarters?


You're trolling beyond the absurd and pulling numbers out of your ass. When your mommy finally let's you fly somewhere all by yourself, you'll be grateful for a pilot that can handle that "non-automated" stuff you're babbling about. Now don't you have a park somewhere to go Occupy?
 
2012-03-10 12:49:39 AM  

Liendral: As a current airline pilot, I'm finding some of these comments equal parts hilarious/enraging.

Yes, we use the autopilot most of the time, and for good reasons.

First, humans are absolutely horrible at doing mundane, monotonous tasks. Like holding a plane at an exact attitude for hours on end. George can hold altitude and heading better than I ever can because he never gets tired, or has a thought beyond "heading, altitude, airspeed." I've flown more than a few flights with the autopilot deferred, and you are wiped afterward. And I mean compared to me at the end of my normal 13hr duty day.

Second, with Jorje doing the mundane stuff, I'm now able to spend more time monitoring the plane (are we descending fast enough to make that crossing restriction?) and the environment (WTF is that little cessna doing 500ft below me? Which way does the radar suggest we go to get around these 70000ft tall thunderstorms? Lets see what altitude's got a better ride so you folks in the back have a smooth, enjoyable ride.)

Third, its to keep us fresh. think of your last trip from the states to Europe, or a car trip to Disney World. You were wiped when you got there, weren't you? Now imagine doing that for 4 straight days. I already alluded to it, but hand flying a 80000lb hunk of metal stable in a constantly changing environment going 500kts saps your strength like little else. I spend the first day home just recovering. You want me alert and on the ball when the weather goes to pot.

You want me up front when this (new window)happens. We're here for when something bad happens and the automated systems go, "fark it, you get this one."

And for the trouble of doing what I do, I'm paid the astronomical sum of $37927 (this past year). I've been doing this for 5 years now, I'm not a noob.

To fly this:


I don't demand $250k to do what I do. but then I fly "one of those little planes" that only kills 80 people when it crashes. However, I think that those that fly the A380s & 747s have earned those big paychecks. The guys & gals up front are responsible for every soul behind them.

Remember, when a doctor screws up, one person dies. And we're willing to pay them as much money as we can throw at them.

When a pilot screws up, 250 people die all at once. But god forbid we gotta pay more than $99 to go from one side of the planet to another in less than 18hrs.

Oh, and we quote Airplane constantly up front. We do spend most of our day in really thin air, in our defense...


Skywest?

Bet you guys can't wait for the next few years. Once everyone retires at 65, you guys are in
 
2012-03-10 12:50:42 AM  

CasperImproved: SoCalSurfer: Phoenix_M: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

250K? what are you smoking pilots are lucky if they make $50k a year. 16K is not unheard of for a new commercial pilot.

*civilian trained pilot

Don't want to be in your sights :)

Yah, I was talking BS for the fun of it for a while and it was fun. But I honestly would have liked to be a pilot from around 1920 ~ 1940. Those would have been fun times. I have pilot envy in that respect. I can also imagine it's no where near as fun as it used to be unless you are a private pilot. Maybe even better with an experimental (prop preferred).

/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background


It's all good
 
2012-03-10 12:53:52 AM  

Liendral: CasperImproved:


/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background

Great Lakes Airlines

Link (new window)

remember, those hourly rates are per flight hour, which we are limited to a max of 1000 in a year by law


I had no idea one of you guys could be had for so cheap (SMAK! [the sound of me hitting the back of my own hand, must stop the urge to troll]).

Seriously, what would be the incentive? I think it likely you could make a bit more as a grill cook, and still have time for the ladies.

No one except those in any business actually know the trials and tribulations you must deal with regardless of career path. I try to respect them all.

I do thank you for the data point as I really didn't know.
 
2012-03-10 12:58:14 AM  
Thanks, WhoIsWillo.
 
2012-03-10 12:58:57 AM  
Thanks, WhoIsWillo. Made my weekend!
 
2012-03-10 01:00:39 AM  

Rodeodoc: CasperImproved: foo monkey: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?


But back to your original point? Yes, I believe that a monkey could learn to deal with the 5% of what was not automated given proper training in regards to flying a plane. The 1% of that 5% that failed we could learn to deal with. Look at BP and the impact of their sloppy/cheap procedures in protecting the environment they were entrusted to work in. I wonder why they are already back to making a sickeningly amount of profit already. Whats $70Bn in fines/recompense when they can make that up in one or two quarters?

You're trolling beyond the absurd and pulling numbers out of your ass. When your mommy finally let's you fly somewhere all by yourself, you'll be grateful for a pilot that can handle that "non-automated" stuff you're babbling about. Now don't you have a park somewhere to go Occupy?


Thanks for making me smile. I was honestly bored tonight and tired. And even with a couple of Jack & cokes, not sleepy. Hopefully I can amuse you some other night when you need it. Or maybe I did tonight? I don't know. With Farkers, it's always a hazard to guess.

How about I smak the mat twice for tonight, and just wish you well?
 
2012-03-10 01:03:35 AM  

CasperImproved: Liendral: CasperImproved:


/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background

Great Lakes Airlines

Link (new window)

remember, those hourly rates are per flight hour, which we are limited to a max of 1000 in a year by law

I had no idea one of you guys could be had for so cheap (SMAK! [the sound of me hitting the back of my own hand, must stop the urge to troll]).

Seriously, what would be the incentive? I think it likely you could make a bit more as a grill cook, and still have time for the ladies.

No one except those in any business actually know the trials and tribulations you must deal with regardless of career path. I try to respect them all.

I do thank you for the data point as I really didn't know.


the system was that you spent a few years flying at a crappy paying commuter/regional, paying your dues, as it were, then got on with the Majors (United, Delta, TWA, etc.) 9/11 really gave that a kick in the jimmies (most majors lopped pay scales in half during their subsequent bankruptcies) then the change in mandatory retirement age from 60 to 65 stopped the wheels everywhere. no one was hiring. so instead of a couple years, it's become 5 years and counting for most of us regional guys.

but, most of us got the bug to fly (it really is fun, and beats a real job, as i always say) and were willing to put up with some sacrifices to do what we love for a living.

suckers, all of us.
 
2012-03-10 01:06:19 AM  
www.jimons.orangehome.co.uk

casper's dad... scars still haven't healed
 
2012-03-10 01:12:21 AM  

Liendral: Oh, and we quote Airplane constantly up front. We do spend most of our day in really thin air, in our defense...


That is awesome.
 
2012-03-10 01:17:19 AM  

Liendral: CasperImproved: Liendral: CasperImproved:


/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background

Great Lakes Airlines

Link (new window)

remember, those hourly rates are per flight hour, which we are limited to a max of 1000 in a year by law

I had no idea one of you guys could be had for so cheap (SMAK! [the sound of me hitting the back of my own hand, must stop the urge to troll]).

Seriously, what would be the incentive? I think it likely you could make a bit more as a grill cook, and still have time for the ladies.

No one except those in any business actually know the trials and tribulations you must deal with regardless of career path. I try to respect them all.

I do thank you for the data point as I really didn't know.

the system was that you spent a few years flying at a crappy paying commuter/regional, paying your dues, as it were, then got on with the Majors (United, Delta, TWA, etc.) 9/11 really gave that a kick in the jimmies (most majors lopped pay scales in half during their subsequent bankruptcies) then the change in mandatory retirement age from 60 to 65 stopped the wheels everywhere. no one was hiring. so instead of a couple years, it's become 5 years and counting for most of us regional guys.

but, most of us got the bug to fly (it really is fun, and beats a real job, as i always say) and were willing to put up with some sacrifices to do what we love for a living.

suckers, all of us.


I was issued my commercial certificate on 9/10/01. Made the hardest decision of my life in the following year and got out of that career path. Saw the writing on the wall vis-a-vis everything you just said. Everyone I know who is still there tells me I did the right thing but I sure do miss it a lot.
 
2012-03-10 01:23:33 AM  

camelwalk: [www.jimons.orangehome.co.uk image 500x500]

casper's dad... scars still haven't healed


Thanks for what is likely my last smile tonight :)

/My dad when sober likely would have laughed if someone would have explained it to him
//Long time gone
///But I have all you lovely farkers for support... am I right?
 
2012-03-10 01:24:36 AM  
They're a menace to themselves and everything else in the air... yes, birds too.
 
2012-03-10 01:26:15 AM  

Fark Me Runnin: Liendral: Oh, and we quote Airplane constantly up front. We do spend most of our day in really thin air, in our defense...

That is awesome.


What those guys do behind closed (and locked) doors, should stay there. Sorta like when in Vegas :)
 
2012-03-10 01:31:17 AM  

Liendral: George Otto can hold altitude and heading better than I ever can because he never gets tired, or has a thought beyond "heading, altitude, airspeed."

 
2012-03-10 01:46:21 AM  
I had to research the reference. Now I feel bad.
 
2012-03-10 01:46:32 AM  
Awesome subby!

/Everything's coming up roses...
 
2012-03-10 02:05:53 AM  
buffalo crash was a fatigue issue. but, as soon as you start making sure pilots get more rest and dont have to commute 5 hours each way to work, airlines have to shell out more money.

so the faa & ntsb do nothing, the airlines make pilots fly tired, and you saved $9 on your one way ticket. hooray!
 
2012-03-10 02:08:55 AM  

Liendral: As a current airline pilot, I'm finding some of these comments equal parts hilarious/enraging.

Yes, we use the autopilot most of the time, and for good reasons.

First, humans are absolutely horrible at doing mundane, monotonous tasks. Like holding a plane at an exact attitude for hours on end. George can hold altitude and heading better than I ever can because he never gets tired, or has a thought beyond "heading, altitude, airspeed." I've flown more than a few flights with the autopilot deferred, and you are wiped afterward. And I mean compared to me at the end of my normal 13hr duty day.

Second, with Jorje doing the mundane stuff, I'm now able to spend more time monitoring the plane (are we descending fast enough to make that crossing restriction?) and the environment (WTF is that little cessna doing 500ft below me? Which way does the radar suggest we go to get around these 70000ft tall thunderstorms? Lets see what altitude's got a better ride so you folks in the back have a smooth, enjoyable ride.)

Third, its to keep us fresh. think of your last trip from the states to Europe, or a car trip to Disney World. You were wiped when you got there, weren't you? Now imagine doing that for 4 straight days. I already alluded to it, but hand flying a 80000lb hunk of metal stable in a constantly changing environment going 500kts saps your strength like little else. I spend the first day home just recovering. You want me alert and on the ball when the weather goes to pot.

You want me up front when this (new window)happens. We're here for when something bad happens and the automated systems go, "fark it, you get this one."

And for the trouble of doing what I do, I'm paid the astronomical sum of $37927 (this past year). I've been doing this for 5 years now, I'm not a noob.

To fly this:
[cdn-www.airliners.net image 640x439]

I don't demand $250k to do what I do. but then I fly "one of those little planes" that only kills 80 people when it crashes. However, ...


I always make it a point to personally thank the crew/pilots every time I set foot off a flight. They know what they are dealing with every day, but should be compensated far greater than what they get now. I also always kiss the outside skin of the plane when I step in at the doorway. I get some weird looks, and sometimes I also get a knowing nod.
 
2012-03-10 02:13:53 AM  
They knew what they were getting into when they bought their tickets.

I SA LET 'EM CRASH!!
 
2012-03-10 02:15:25 AM  

Liendral: As a current airline pilot, I'm finding some of these comments equal parts hilarious/enraging.

Yes, we use the autopilot most of the time, and for good reasons.

First, humans are absolutely horrible at doing mundane, monotonous tasks. Like holding a plane at an exact attitude for hours on end. George can hold altitude and heading better than I ever can because he never gets tired, or has a thought beyond "heading, altitude, airspeed." I've flown more than a few flights with the autopilot deferred, and you are wiped afterward. And I mean compared to me at the end of my normal 13hr duty day.

Second, with Jorje doing the mundane stuff, I'm now able to spend more time monitoring the plane (are we descending fast enough to make that crossing restriction?) and the environment (WTF is that little cessna doing 500ft below me? Which way does the radar suggest we go to get around these 70000ft tall thunderstorms? Lets see what altitude's got a better ride so you folks in the back have a smooth, enjoyable ride.)

Third, its to keep us fresh. think of your last trip from the states to Europe, or a car trip to Disney World. You were wiped when you got there, weren't you? Now imagine doing that for 4 straight days. I already alluded to it, but hand flying a 80000lb hunk of metal stable in a constantly changing environment going 500kts saps your strength like little else. I spend the first day home just recovering. You want me alert and on the ball when the weather goes to pot.

You want me up front when this (new window)happens. We're here for when something bad happens and the automated systems go, "fark it, you get this one."

And for the trouble of doing what I do, I'm paid the astronomical sum of $37927 (this past year). I've been doing this for 5 years now, I'm not a noob.

To fly this:
[cdn-www.airliners.net image 640x439]

I don't demand $250k to do what I do. but then I fly "one of those little planes" that only kills 80 people when it crashes. However, ...


You have my respect.
 
2012-03-10 02:24:57 AM  

CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.


I was certain one of the 90 posts would have pulled the ol' i1222.photobucket.com
... but then you ...

CasperImproved: Can I troll when I want.... or what?

/lol


Oh well.
 
2012-03-10 02:38:40 AM  
The solution: keep 'em at 24,000. No, feet.

/it's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether
 
2012-03-10 02:41:27 AM  

Paris1127: The solution: keep 'em at 24,000. No, feet.

/it's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether


It's an entirely different kind of flying.
 
2012-03-10 04:09:12 AM  
Headline definitely +2. And didn't mention gladiators, either...
 
2012-03-10 04:15:48 AM  

Polartank13: [virginiavirtucon.files.wordpress.com image 320x240]

I loved watching him in those 2 movies, absolutely hilarious...I wonder what he is doing lately...ohhh, nm.


He died a few yrs after the last Airplane movie. AIDS related complications. Yes, in real life he was gay.

Which makes his Airplane role even more impressive considering he had to play a character that was full of gay stereotypes. A role like that could not be done today, esp by someone gay. The LGBT communtiy would riot
 
2012-03-10 05:10:18 AM  

Liendral: As a current airline pilot, I'm finding some of these comments equal parts hilarious/enraging.


guyism.com
/great comparison perspective
//hot
 
2012-03-10 07:39:56 AM  
Joey, have you ever been to a turkish prison?
 
2012-03-10 08:42:53 AM  
The cockpit? What is it?
 
2012-03-10 08:51:57 AM  
www.empireonline.com

LISTEN KID

/Been hearing that crap since UCLA
 
2012-03-10 10:10:19 AM  

Polartank13: [virginiavirtucon.files.wordpress.com image 320x240]

I loved watching him in those 2 movies, absolutely hilarious...I wonder what he is doing lately...ohhh, nm.


Being dead for 25 years can put a damper on your career.
 
2012-03-10 10:29:11 AM  

Mister Microphone: The cockpit? What is it?


It's a little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but thats not important right now.
 
2012-03-10 10:32:19 AM  

Liendral:
the system was that you spent a few years flying at a crappy paying commuter/regional, paying your dues, as it were, then got on with the Majors (United, Delta, TWA, etc.) 9/11 really gave that a kick in the jimmies (most majors lopped pay scales in half during their subsequent bankruptcies) then the change in mandatory retirement age from 60 to 65 stopped the wheels everywhere. no one was hiring. so instead of a couple years, it's become 5 years and counting for most of us regional guys.

but, most of us got the bug to fly (it really is fun, and beats a real job, as i always say) and were willing to put up with some sacrifices to do what we love for a living.

suckers, all of us.


5 years !? Get in line sparky. Next month I hit 14 years and counting. As an average white guy with just over 12,000 hours its still gonna be an uphill battle for a little while once hiring starts. Granted, the big vaccum is on its way. The flying public doesn't know how bad they are going to get smacked in the next few years. 5 flights/day in/out of a city right now? Get ready for 2. 3-4 airlines to choose from? Hope you like being stuck with only 1-2 options. Its going to separate the well run airlines from the shiatbags.

Charlie Freak: I was issued my commercial certificate on 9/10/01. Made the hardest decision of my life in the following year and got out of that career path. Saw the writing on the wall vis-a-vis everything you just said. Everyone I know who is still there tells me I did the right thing but I sure do miss it a lot.


My sister-in-law recently told me she wouldn't mind if my niece or nephew decided to be a pilot. I told her that I would physically harm those kids if they entertained the thought. Granted, there is very little else I would rather do on this earth for employment, it isn't for everyone and you have to be a special kind of breed to be willing to tolerate it. When people ask why I became I pilot, I say "I was dropped on my head as a kid". Again, its only a half joke. I'm proud of what I do, but, there are plenty of days where it sucks. You do still fly on the side, thought, right? I'd slit my wrists of I couldn't fly every now and then.
 
2012-03-10 01:00:10 PM  
See kids, this is an argument against finding a job doing what you love. I see it among pilots and I see it in my own profession. As a kid you discover this thing that seems so cool and people will actually pay you for it? Sign me up. Employers see that attitude and say, "Well we don't have to pay this kid crap, she/he'll work for almost nothing."
 
2012-03-10 05:16:02 PM  

iron_city_ap: Liendral:
the system was that you spent a few years flying at a crappy paying commuter/regional, paying your dues, as it were, then got on with the Majors (United, Delta, TWA, etc.) 9/11 really gave that a kick in the jimmies (most majors lopped pay scales in half during their subsequent bankruptcies) then the change in mandatory retirement age from 60 to 65 stopped the wheels everywhere. no one was hiring. so instead of a couple years, it's become 5 years and counting for most of us regional guys.

but, most of us got the bug to fly (it really is fun, and beats a real job, as i always say) and were willing to put up with some sacrifices to do what we love for a living.

suckers, all of us.

5 years !? Get in line sparky. Next month I hit 14 years and counting. As an average white guy with just over 12,000 hours its still gonna be an uphill battle for a little while once hiring starts. Granted, the big vaccum is on its way. The flying public doesn't know how bad they are going to get smacked in the next few years. 5 flights/day in/out of a city right now? Get ready for 2. 3-4 airlines to choose from? Hope you like being stuck with only 1-2 options. Its going to separate the well run airlines from the shiatbags.

Charlie Freak: I was issued my commercial certificate on 9/10/01. Made the hardest decision of my life in the following year and got out of that career path. Saw the writing on the wall vis-a-vis everything you just said. Everyone I know who is still there tells me I did the right thing but I sure do miss it a lot.

My sister-in-law recently told me she wouldn't mind if my niece or nephew decided to be a pilot. I told her that I would physically harm those kids if they entertained the thought. Granted, there is very little else I would rather do on this earth for employment, it isn't for everyone and you have to be a special kind of breed to be willing to tolerate it. When people ask why I became I pilot, I say "I was dropped on my head as a kid". Again, it ...


And people don't think I'm crazy for pursuing my CPL (H). Problem is, I love to fly and can not stand my current job, the idea of getting paid for doing something that I love just sounds insane. Good thing I won't be getting paid very much at all!

/The (H) is for helicopter, just in case anyone was wondering
 
2012-03-10 05:17:04 PM  
Help yourself to a +1, you magnificent bastard!
 
2012-03-10 08:53:06 PM  

Liendral:
First, humans are absolutely horrible at doing mundane, monotonous tasks. Like holding a plane at an exact attitude for hours on end. George can hold altitude and heading better than I ever can because he never gets tired, or has a thought beyond "heading, altitude, airspeed." I've flown more than a few flights with the autopilot deferred, and you are wiped afterward. And I mean compared to me at the end of my normal 13hr duty day.


So... it's a completely different kind of flying?


You want me up front when this (new window)happens. We're here for when something bad happens and the automated systems go, "fark it, you get this one."

I'm partial to the Sioux City incident, as far as heartwarming stories go. Yes, people still died. But they were flying the plane entirely by engine thrust since all hydraulics were *gone*.

/"You're clear to land on any runway." "You want to be particular and make it a runway?"
 
2012-03-10 11:13:07 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

if i fall asleep, some limey fark will shoot my ass out of the sky.
 
2012-03-11 12:19:12 AM  

desertgeek: They knew what they were getting themselves into...


Why John, you old stick in the mud. I've been listening to that horseshiat of yours for months, and you can take that crap and blow it out your ass. And for good measure, sit on THIS, John.

/wrong movie but same actors and awesome.
 
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