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(MSNBC)   One in four pilots fight fatigue, having to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes   (overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, National Sleep Foundation, train operator, Walter Reed  
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2206 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Mar 2012 at 10:36 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-09 11:42:47 PM  

CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.


250K? what are you smoking pilots are lucky if they make $50k a year. 16K is not unheard of for a new commercial pilot.
 
2012-03-09 11:43:07 PM  

CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.


Holy crap. I have found the dumbest person on the planet. No, really, CasperImproved is just stupid as hell.
 
2012-03-09 11:47:37 PM  

CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.


Have you tried killing yourself lately? Maybe its time to try again.
 
2012-03-09 11:49:12 PM  
I haven't seen anything this bad since the Anita Bryant concert.
 
2012-03-09 11:53:03 PM  
img256.imageshack.us

They knew what they were getting themselves into...
 
2012-03-09 11:54:58 PM  

Raddamant: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

Holy crap. I have found the dumbest person on the planet. No, really, CasperImproved is just stupid as hell.


I'd advise him to get into a plane piloted by a freshly trained bus driver, then come back and post again.
 
2012-03-09 11:56:51 PM  
There is just no parking in a red zone
 
2012-03-10 12:02:07 AM  

CasperImproved: foo monkey: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

Sure, nowadays 95% of the trip is largely monitoring an automated process. It's that other 5%, takeoff and landing, that's always been the most dangerous and requires trained human pilots.

You think bus drivers didn't need to train? Do they expect $250K salary? Same thing with truck drivers.

The only difference is incentive for the long hours, or the lack of them.


False equivalency. The time, cost, and education required to be a professional pilot exceeds that of a professional bus driver by several orders of magnitude. The compensation for a pilot should far exceed that of a bus driver.
 
2012-03-10 12:02:36 AM  

danno_to_infinity: subby, I think I lurve you


But what are you so afraid of?
 
2012-03-10 12:04:07 AM  

geocacherphil: There is just no parking in a red zone


Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion.
 
2012-03-10 12:04:44 AM  
Can I troll when I want.... or what?

/lol
 
2012-03-10 12:14:29 AM  
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.

Knock yourself a pro, slic!
 
2012-03-10 12:22:02 AM  
As a pilot, let me say this: it depends on the airframe
 
2012-03-10 12:23:58 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Surely you can't be serious.


images.cheezburger.com
 
2012-03-10 12:26:10 AM  
After literally years of studying and aviation nerditude I just logged my first hour a few days ago, complete with the obligatory "Holy shiat, I know what all these round things do. But what does it all mean!?" moment. It is good to see that not everyone thinks the way CasperImproved does.
 
2012-03-10 12:28:52 AM  

Phoenix_M: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

250K? what are you smoking pilots are lucky if they make $50k a year. 16K is not unheard of for a new commercial pilot.


*civilian trained pilot
 
2012-03-10 12:34:01 AM  
I've got to concentrate... concentrate... concentrate... I've got to concentrate... concentrate... concentrate... Hello?... hello... hello... Echo... echo... echo... Pinch hitting for Pedro Borbon... Manny Mota... Mota... Mota...
 
2012-03-10 12:36:16 AM  
I am not the first, but subby this headline is full of win.
 
2012-03-10 12:37:12 AM  
As a current airline pilot, I'm finding some of these comments equal parts hilarious/enraging.

Yes, we use the autopilot most of the time, and for good reasons.

First, humans are absolutely horrible at doing mundane, monotonous tasks. Like holding a plane at an exact attitude for hours on end. George can hold altitude and heading better than I ever can because he never gets tired, or has a thought beyond "heading, altitude, airspeed." I've flown more than a few flights with the autopilot deferred, and you are wiped afterward. And I mean compared to me at the end of my normal 13hr duty day.

Second, with Jorje doing the mundane stuff, I'm now able to spend more time monitoring the plane (are we descending fast enough to make that crossing restriction?) and the environment (WTF is that little cessna doing 500ft below me? Which way does the radar suggest we go to get around these 70000ft tall thunderstorms? Lets see what altitude's got a better ride so you folks in the back have a smooth, enjoyable ride.)

Third, its to keep us fresh. think of your last trip from the states to Europe, or a car trip to Disney World. You were wiped when you got there, weren't you? Now imagine doing that for 4 straight days. I already alluded to it, but hand flying a 80000lb hunk of metal stable in a constantly changing environment going 500kts saps your strength like little else. I spend the first day home just recovering. You want me alert and on the ball when the weather goes to pot.

You want me up front when this (new window)happens. We're here for when something bad happens and the automated systems go, "fark it, you get this one."

And for the trouble of doing what I do, I'm paid the astronomical sum of $37927 (this past year). I've been doing this for 5 years now, I'm not a noob.

To fly this:
cdn-www.airliners.net

I don't demand $250k to do what I do. but then I fly "one of those little planes" that only kills 80 people when it crashes. However, I think that those that fly the A380s & 747s have earned those big paychecks. The guys & gals up front are responsible for every soul behind them.

Remember, when a doctor screws up, one person dies. And we're willing to pay them as much money as we can throw at them.

When a pilot screws up, 250 people die all at once. But god forbid we gotta pay more than $99 to go from one side of the planet to another in less than 18hrs.

Oh, and we quote Airplane constantly up front. We do spend most of our day in really thin air, in our defense...
 
2012-03-10 12:38:16 AM  

SoCalSurfer: Phoenix_M: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

250K? what are you smoking pilots are lucky if they make $50k a year. 16K is not unheard of for a new commercial pilot.

*civilian trained pilot


Don't want to be in your sights :)

Yah, I was talking BS for the fun of it for a while and it was fun. But I honestly would have liked to be a pilot from around 1920 ~ 1940. Those would have been fun times. I have pilot envy in that respect. I can also imagine it's no where near as fun as it used to be unless you are a private pilot. Maybe even better with an experimental (prop preferred).

/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background
 
2012-03-10 12:43:04 AM  
CasperImproved:


/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background

Great Lakes Airlines

Link (new window)

remember, those hourly rates are per flight hour, which we are limited to a max of 1000 in a year by law
 
2012-03-10 12:44:40 AM  

CasperImproved: foo monkey: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?


But back to your original point? Yes, I believe that a monkey could learn to deal with the 5% of what was not automated given proper training in regards to flying a plane. The 1% of that 5% that failed we could learn to deal with. Look at BP and the impact of their sloppy/cheap procedures in protecting the environment they were entrusted to work in. I wonder why they are already back to making a sickeningly amount of profit already. Whats $70Bn in fines/recompense when they can make that up in one or two quarters?


You're trolling beyond the absurd and pulling numbers out of your ass. When your mommy finally let's you fly somewhere all by yourself, you'll be grateful for a pilot that can handle that "non-automated" stuff you're babbling about. Now don't you have a park somewhere to go Occupy?
 
2012-03-10 12:49:39 AM  

Liendral: As a current airline pilot, I'm finding some of these comments equal parts hilarious/enraging.

Yes, we use the autopilot most of the time, and for good reasons.

First, humans are absolutely horrible at doing mundane, monotonous tasks. Like holding a plane at an exact attitude for hours on end. George can hold altitude and heading better than I ever can because he never gets tired, or has a thought beyond "heading, altitude, airspeed." I've flown more than a few flights with the autopilot deferred, and you are wiped afterward. And I mean compared to me at the end of my normal 13hr duty day.

Second, with Jorje doing the mundane stuff, I'm now able to spend more time monitoring the plane (are we descending fast enough to make that crossing restriction?) and the environment (WTF is that little cessna doing 500ft below me? Which way does the radar suggest we go to get around these 70000ft tall thunderstorms? Lets see what altitude's got a better ride so you folks in the back have a smooth, enjoyable ride.)

Third, its to keep us fresh. think of your last trip from the states to Europe, or a car trip to Disney World. You were wiped when you got there, weren't you? Now imagine doing that for 4 straight days. I already alluded to it, but hand flying a 80000lb hunk of metal stable in a constantly changing environment going 500kts saps your strength like little else. I spend the first day home just recovering. You want me alert and on the ball when the weather goes to pot.

You want me up front when this (new window)happens. We're here for when something bad happens and the automated systems go, "fark it, you get this one."

And for the trouble of doing what I do, I'm paid the astronomical sum of $37927 (this past year). I've been doing this for 5 years now, I'm not a noob.

To fly this:


I don't demand $250k to do what I do. but then I fly "one of those little planes" that only kills 80 people when it crashes. However, I think that those that fly the A380s & 747s have earned those big paychecks. The guys & gals up front are responsible for every soul behind them.

Remember, when a doctor screws up, one person dies. And we're willing to pay them as much money as we can throw at them.

When a pilot screws up, 250 people die all at once. But god forbid we gotta pay more than $99 to go from one side of the planet to another in less than 18hrs.

Oh, and we quote Airplane constantly up front. We do spend most of our day in really thin air, in our defense...


Skywest?

Bet you guys can't wait for the next few years. Once everyone retires at 65, you guys are in
 
2012-03-10 12:50:42 AM  

CasperImproved: SoCalSurfer: Phoenix_M: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

250K? what are you smoking pilots are lucky if they make $50k a year. 16K is not unheard of for a new commercial pilot.

*civilian trained pilot

Don't want to be in your sights :)

Yah, I was talking BS for the fun of it for a while and it was fun. But I honestly would have liked to be a pilot from around 1920 ~ 1940. Those would have been fun times. I have pilot envy in that respect. I can also imagine it's no where near as fun as it used to be unless you are a private pilot. Maybe even better with an experimental (prop preferred).

/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background


It's all good
 
2012-03-10 12:53:52 AM  

Liendral: CasperImproved:


/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background

Great Lakes Airlines

Link (new window)

remember, those hourly rates are per flight hour, which we are limited to a max of 1000 in a year by law


I had no idea one of you guys could be had for so cheap (SMAK! [the sound of me hitting the back of my own hand, must stop the urge to troll]).

Seriously, what would be the incentive? I think it likely you could make a bit more as a grill cook, and still have time for the ladies.

No one except those in any business actually know the trials and tribulations you must deal with regardless of career path. I try to respect them all.

I do thank you for the data point as I really didn't know.
 
2012-03-10 12:58:14 AM  
Thanks, WhoIsWillo.
 
2012-03-10 12:58:57 AM  
Thanks, WhoIsWillo. Made my weekend!
 
2012-03-10 01:00:39 AM  

Rodeodoc: CasperImproved: foo monkey: CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?


But back to your original point? Yes, I believe that a monkey could learn to deal with the 5% of what was not automated given proper training in regards to flying a plane. The 1% of that 5% that failed we could learn to deal with. Look at BP and the impact of their sloppy/cheap procedures in protecting the environment they were entrusted to work in. I wonder why they are already back to making a sickeningly amount of profit already. Whats $70Bn in fines/recompense when they can make that up in one or two quarters?

You're trolling beyond the absurd and pulling numbers out of your ass. When your mommy finally let's you fly somewhere all by yourself, you'll be grateful for a pilot that can handle that "non-automated" stuff you're babbling about. Now don't you have a park somewhere to go Occupy?


Thanks for making me smile. I was honestly bored tonight and tired. And even with a couple of Jack & cokes, not sleepy. Hopefully I can amuse you some other night when you need it. Or maybe I did tonight? I don't know. With Farkers, it's always a hazard to guess.

How about I smak the mat twice for tonight, and just wish you well?
 
2012-03-10 01:03:35 AM  

CasperImproved: Liendral: CasperImproved:


/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background

Great Lakes Airlines

Link (new window)

remember, those hourly rates are per flight hour, which we are limited to a max of 1000 in a year by law

I had no idea one of you guys could be had for so cheap (SMAK! [the sound of me hitting the back of my own hand, must stop the urge to troll]).

Seriously, what would be the incentive? I think it likely you could make a bit more as a grill cook, and still have time for the ladies.

No one except those in any business actually know the trials and tribulations you must deal with regardless of career path. I try to respect them all.

I do thank you for the data point as I really didn't know.


the system was that you spent a few years flying at a crappy paying commuter/regional, paying your dues, as it were, then got on with the Majors (United, Delta, TWA, etc.) 9/11 really gave that a kick in the jimmies (most majors lopped pay scales in half during their subsequent bankruptcies) then the change in mandatory retirement age from 60 to 65 stopped the wheels everywhere. no one was hiring. so instead of a couple years, it's become 5 years and counting for most of us regional guys.

but, most of us got the bug to fly (it really is fun, and beats a real job, as i always say) and were willing to put up with some sacrifices to do what we love for a living.

suckers, all of us.
 
2012-03-10 01:06:19 AM  
www.jimons.orangehome.co.uk

casper's dad... scars still haven't healed
 
2012-03-10 01:12:21 AM  

Liendral: Oh, and we quote Airplane constantly up front. We do spend most of our day in really thin air, in our defense...


That is awesome.
 
2012-03-10 01:17:19 AM  

Liendral: CasperImproved: Liendral: CasperImproved:


/I do think the $16k is probably unheard of though no matter the background

Great Lakes Airlines

Link (new window)

remember, those hourly rates are per flight hour, which we are limited to a max of 1000 in a year by law

I had no idea one of you guys could be had for so cheap (SMAK! [the sound of me hitting the back of my own hand, must stop the urge to troll]).

Seriously, what would be the incentive? I think it likely you could make a bit more as a grill cook, and still have time for the ladies.

No one except those in any business actually know the trials and tribulations you must deal with regardless of career path. I try to respect them all.

I do thank you for the data point as I really didn't know.

the system was that you spent a few years flying at a crappy paying commuter/regional, paying your dues, as it were, then got on with the Majors (United, Delta, TWA, etc.) 9/11 really gave that a kick in the jimmies (most majors lopped pay scales in half during their subsequent bankruptcies) then the change in mandatory retirement age from 60 to 65 stopped the wheels everywhere. no one was hiring. so instead of a couple years, it's become 5 years and counting for most of us regional guys.

but, most of us got the bug to fly (it really is fun, and beats a real job, as i always say) and were willing to put up with some sacrifices to do what we love for a living.

suckers, all of us.


I was issued my commercial certificate on 9/10/01. Made the hardest decision of my life in the following year and got out of that career path. Saw the writing on the wall vis-a-vis everything you just said. Everyone I know who is still there tells me I did the right thing but I sure do miss it a lot.
 
2012-03-10 01:23:33 AM  

camelwalk: [www.jimons.orangehome.co.uk image 500x500]

casper's dad... scars still haven't healed


Thanks for what is likely my last smile tonight :)

/My dad when sober likely would have laughed if someone would have explained it to him
//Long time gone
///But I have all you lovely farkers for support... am I right?
 
2012-03-10 01:24:36 AM  
They're a menace to themselves and everything else in the air... yes, birds too.
 
2012-03-10 01:26:15 AM  

Fark Me Runnin: Liendral: Oh, and we quote Airplane constantly up front. We do spend most of our day in really thin air, in our defense...

That is awesome.


What those guys do behind closed (and locked) doors, should stay there. Sorta like when in Vegas :)
 
2012-03-10 01:31:17 AM  

Liendral: George Otto can hold altitude and heading better than I ever can because he never gets tired, or has a thought beyond "heading, altitude, airspeed."

 
2012-03-10 01:46:21 AM  
I had to research the reference. Now I feel bad.
 
2012-03-10 01:46:32 AM  
Awesome subby!

/Everything's coming up roses...
 
2012-03-10 02:05:53 AM  
buffalo crash was a fatigue issue. but, as soon as you start making sure pilots get more rest and dont have to commute 5 hours each way to work, airlines have to shell out more money.

so the faa & ntsb do nothing, the airlines make pilots fly tired, and you saved $9 on your one way ticket. hooray!
 
2012-03-10 02:08:55 AM  

Liendral: As a current airline pilot, I'm finding some of these comments equal parts hilarious/enraging.

Yes, we use the autopilot most of the time, and for good reasons.

First, humans are absolutely horrible at doing mundane, monotonous tasks. Like holding a plane at an exact attitude for hours on end. George can hold altitude and heading better than I ever can because he never gets tired, or has a thought beyond "heading, altitude, airspeed." I've flown more than a few flights with the autopilot deferred, and you are wiped afterward. And I mean compared to me at the end of my normal 13hr duty day.

Second, with Jorje doing the mundane stuff, I'm now able to spend more time monitoring the plane (are we descending fast enough to make that crossing restriction?) and the environment (WTF is that little cessna doing 500ft below me? Which way does the radar suggest we go to get around these 70000ft tall thunderstorms? Lets see what altitude's got a better ride so you folks in the back have a smooth, enjoyable ride.)

Third, its to keep us fresh. think of your last trip from the states to Europe, or a car trip to Disney World. You were wiped when you got there, weren't you? Now imagine doing that for 4 straight days. I already alluded to it, but hand flying a 80000lb hunk of metal stable in a constantly changing environment going 500kts saps your strength like little else. I spend the first day home just recovering. You want me alert and on the ball when the weather goes to pot.

You want me up front when this (new window)happens. We're here for when something bad happens and the automated systems go, "fark it, you get this one."

And for the trouble of doing what I do, I'm paid the astronomical sum of $37927 (this past year). I've been doing this for 5 years now, I'm not a noob.

To fly this:
[cdn-www.airliners.net image 640x439]

I don't demand $250k to do what I do. but then I fly "one of those little planes" that only kills 80 people when it crashes. However, ...


I always make it a point to personally thank the crew/pilots every time I set foot off a flight. They know what they are dealing with every day, but should be compensated far greater than what they get now. I also always kiss the outside skin of the plane when I step in at the doorway. I get some weird looks, and sometimes I also get a knowing nod.
 
2012-03-10 02:13:53 AM  
They knew what they were getting into when they bought their tickets.

I SA LET 'EM CRASH!!
 
2012-03-10 02:15:25 AM  

Liendral: As a current airline pilot, I'm finding some of these comments equal parts hilarious/enraging.

Yes, we use the autopilot most of the time, and for good reasons.

First, humans are absolutely horrible at doing mundane, monotonous tasks. Like holding a plane at an exact attitude for hours on end. George can hold altitude and heading better than I ever can because he never gets tired, or has a thought beyond "heading, altitude, airspeed." I've flown more than a few flights with the autopilot deferred, and you are wiped afterward. And I mean compared to me at the end of my normal 13hr duty day.

Second, with Jorje doing the mundane stuff, I'm now able to spend more time monitoring the plane (are we descending fast enough to make that crossing restriction?) and the environment (WTF is that little cessna doing 500ft below me? Which way does the radar suggest we go to get around these 70000ft tall thunderstorms? Lets see what altitude's got a better ride so you folks in the back have a smooth, enjoyable ride.)

Third, its to keep us fresh. think of your last trip from the states to Europe, or a car trip to Disney World. You were wiped when you got there, weren't you? Now imagine doing that for 4 straight days. I already alluded to it, but hand flying a 80000lb hunk of metal stable in a constantly changing environment going 500kts saps your strength like little else. I spend the first day home just recovering. You want me alert and on the ball when the weather goes to pot.

You want me up front when this (new window)happens. We're here for when something bad happens and the automated systems go, "fark it, you get this one."

And for the trouble of doing what I do, I'm paid the astronomical sum of $37927 (this past year). I've been doing this for 5 years now, I'm not a noob.

To fly this:
[cdn-www.airliners.net image 640x439]

I don't demand $250k to do what I do. but then I fly "one of those little planes" that only kills 80 people when it crashes. However, ...


You have my respect.
 
2012-03-10 02:24:57 AM  

CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.


I was certain one of the 90 posts would have pulled the ol' i1222.photobucket.com
... but then you ...

CasperImproved: Can I troll when I want.... or what?

/lol


Oh well.
 
2012-03-10 02:38:40 AM  
The solution: keep 'em at 24,000. No, feet.

/it's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether
 
2012-03-10 02:41:27 AM  

Paris1127: The solution: keep 'em at 24,000. No, feet.

/it's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether


It's an entirely different kind of flying.
 
2012-03-10 04:09:12 AM  
Headline definitely +2. And didn't mention gladiators, either...
 
2012-03-10 04:15:48 AM  

Polartank13: [virginiavirtucon.files.wordpress.com image 320x240]

I loved watching him in those 2 movies, absolutely hilarious...I wonder what he is doing lately...ohhh, nm.


He died a few yrs after the last Airplane movie. AIDS related complications. Yes, in real life he was gay.

Which makes his Airplane role even more impressive considering he had to play a character that was full of gay stereotypes. A role like that could not be done today, esp by someone gay. The LGBT communtiy would riot
 
2012-03-10 05:10:18 AM  

Liendral: As a current airline pilot, I'm finding some of these comments equal parts hilarious/enraging.


guyism.com
/great comparison perspective
//hot
 
2012-03-10 07:39:56 AM  
Joey, have you ever been to a turkish prison?
 
2012-03-10 08:42:53 AM  
The cockpit? What is it?
 
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