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(Donald Prothero)   Old news: Scientists laughing at the so-called Creation "Museum." New hotness: A paleontologist visits. Finds the first fossil display is a fake. Many of the real fossils are incorrectly identified and the docents don't know jack   (skepticblog.org) divider line 224
    More: Amusing, Old News, second law of thermodynamics, Stephen Jay Gould, Ken Ham, Answers in Genesis, flowering plants, industrial parks, real image  
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9277 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Mar 2012 at 11:18 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-09 08:50:21 AM  
And this is surprising how....
 
2012-03-09 09:09:37 AM  

Aarontology: And this is surprising how....


No shiat. In that little Temple of Stupid, it's got to be expected.
 
2012-03-09 09:10:25 AM  
What? I was so sure that they had solid scientific grounding for the "when humans domesticated friendly dinosaurs" exhibit.
 
2012-03-09 09:10:32 AM  

Vodka Zombie: Aarontology: And this is surprising how....

No shiat. In that little Temple of Stupid, it's got to be expected.


I have to third all of this. Why is anyone surprised that Creationists don't actually care about science?
 
2012-03-09 09:12:02 AM  
I absolutely LOVE that they put a stegosaurus on the "ark."
 
2012-03-09 09:14:42 AM  
So he couldn't find a decent docent?
 
2012-03-09 09:23:33 AM  
How did this not get an img1.fark.net tag?
 
2012-03-09 09:26:04 AM  
I think that is about the last location on Earth that one could expect to find critical thinking skills and a sound understanding of science. I have to go with eraser8 on this one, why no obvious tag?
 
2012-03-09 09:28:29 AM  
The creationists don't know much about fossils...
I'm shocked. Shocked!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-03-09 09:28:57 AM  
Did they really even need to make the trip?
 
2012-03-09 09:29:58 AM  
So the first fossil is a fake... just like all the ones in the evolution museums?
 
2012-03-09 09:42:48 AM  
In a sense, I can understand this. The Biblical literalists believe they are battling for the heart and soul of Christianity versus the world of science, a world which totally repudiates everything they believe and hold dear. And they're correct. They are.
 
2012-03-09 09:50:24 AM  
A real paleontologist in a creationist museum? I'm surprised his head didn't explode when he walked in the door.
 
2012-03-09 09:51:29 AM  

eraser8: How did this not get an [img1.fark.net image 54x11] tag?


I would have gone with the Newsflash tag.
 
2012-03-09 09:58:36 AM  

shivashakti: The creationists don't know much about fossils...
I'm shocked. Shocked!


Indeed. Conservapedia's article on Pat Robertson is kind of sparse.
 
2012-03-09 10:02:05 AM  
Paging Docent Bevets
 
2012-03-09 10:05:31 AM  
Last Feb. 11, the day before Darwin's 203rd Birthday, I was invited by Ross Blocher and Carrie Poppy of the "Oh, no, it's Ross and Carrie" podcast to accompany them, along with Emery Emery and Heather Henderson of the Ardent Atheist podcast, to visit the Creation Museum in Santee, east of San Diego, California (videoblog available here). This museum was originally built by the Institute of Creation "Research" (ICR), once led by the late Henry Morris and Duane Gish, which has since relocated to Texas. At one time ICR was the leading creationist organization in the U.S., but lately they seem to have lost their influence (they couldn't even get their school accredited in conservative Texas!). Now they are overshadowed by Ken Ham of Answers in Genesis and his multi-million-dollar creation museum in Petersburg, Kentucky (which I saw back in 2009).

So to recap: The guy visits a poorly funded museum and discovers that the exhibits fall short of multi million dollar atheists cathedrals. I guess this is easier than engaging people in discussion.
 
2012-03-09 10:05:54 AM  
Y'know, I'm generally fairly critical of fundamentalists, but this just seems dickish. You know this isn't going to be real science because they're basing everything on a literal interpretation of Genesis.

So why go in, mock them on your blog and point out everywhere that they're wrong scientifically?
 
2012-03-09 10:09:18 AM  

serial_crusher: So the first fossil is a fake... just like all the ones in the evolution museums?


LOL! Wut?
 
2012-03-09 10:11:22 AM  
I think it's finally time to ignore Bevets. Had enough of the dishonesty.
 
2012-03-09 10:12:51 AM  

shivashakti: Y'know, I'm generally fairly critical of fundamentalists, but this just seems dickish. You know this isn't going to be real science because they're basing everything on a literal interpretation of Genesis.

So why go in, mock them on your blog and point out everywhere that they're wrong scientifically?


Because it needs to be done? They can have their opinions. Fine. Freedom of speech. That doesn't means their opinions shouldn't be criticized and flat out mocked when they are so ridiculous. If for no other reason than they hope to use their fantasy land to spread their myths to kids ruining yet another generation of humans from the ability to think critically.
 
2012-03-09 10:14:46 AM  

WorldCitizen: shivashakti: Y'know, I'm generally fairly critical of fundamentalists, but this just seems dickish. You know this isn't going to be real science because they're basing everything on a literal interpretation of Genesis.

So why go in, mock them on your blog and point out everywhere that they're wrong scientifically?

Because it needs to be done? They can have their opinions. Fine. Freedom of speech. That doesn't means their opinions shouldn't be criticized and flat out mocked when they are so ridiculous. If for no other reason than they hope to use their fantasy land to spread their myths to kids ruining yet another generation of humans from the ability to think critically.


This. Isn't building a misinformation museum way more dickish to begin with?
 
2012-03-09 10:15:51 AM  

Bevets: So to recap: The guy visits a poorly funded museum and discovers that the exhibits fall short of multi million dollar atheists cathedrals. I guess this is easier than engaging people in discussion.


winnowingfork.files.wordpress.com

And that's that. So there's no more need to address you directly.
 
2012-03-09 10:17:57 AM  
It's a bad day to be Bevets... Then again, every day is a bad day when you pattern your life on fairy tales.
 
2012-03-09 10:22:14 AM  

Via Infinito: This. Isn't building a misinformation museum way more dickish to begin with?


I don't think it is.
They're doing it as a sincere expression of their faith. They're not doing it to be dicks or to spread misinformation. This is what they believe (even if I think it's wrong).

WorldCitizen: Because it needs to be done? They can have their opinions. Fine. Freedom of speech. That doesn't means their opinions shouldn't be criticized and flat out mocked when they are so ridiculous. If for no other reason than they hope to use their fantasy land to spread their myths to kids ruining yet another generation of humans from the ability to think critically.


But is this the best way to bring others to your side or convince them that your side has more validity to it? I think something like this only reinforces the paranoid opinions of fundamentalists that the secularists are out to get them and that science is 'anti-Christian'.
 
2012-03-09 10:25:11 AM  

Bevets: So to recap: The guy visits a poorly funded museum and discovers that the exhibits fall short of multi million dollar atheists cathedrals. I guess this is easier than engaging people in discussion.


I thought the Truth was free. Go cry in the corner, emo boy.
 
2012-03-09 10:27:24 AM  

serial_crusher: So the first fossil is a fake... just like all the ones in the evolution museums?


Real museums often display reproductions of important fossils, but they are faithful casts of real fossils, not outright fabrications like the ones in the article.
 
2012-03-09 10:27:27 AM  

Bevets: Last Feb. 11, the day before Darwin's 203rd Birthday, I was invited by Ross Blocher and Carrie Poppy of the "Oh, no, it's Ross and Carrie" podcast to accompany them, along with Emery Emery and Heather Henderson of the Ardent Atheist podcast, to visit the Creation Museum in Santee, east of San Diego, California (videoblog available here). This museum was originally built by the Institute of Creation "Research" (ICR), once led by the late Henry Morris and Duane Gish, which has since relocated to Texas. At one time ICR was the leading creationist organization in the U.S., but lately they seem to have lost their influence (they couldn't even get their school accredited in conservative Texas!). Now they are overshadowed by Ken Ham of Answers in Genesis and his multi-million-dollar creation museum in Petersburg, Kentucky (which I saw back in 2009).

So to recap: The guy visits a poorly funded museum and discovers that the exhibits fall short of multi million dollar atheists cathedrals. I guess this is easier than engaging people in discussion.


So you are suggesting William Lane Craig has more to contribute to the debate than say the Archbishop of Canterbury?
 
2012-03-09 10:28:57 AM  

Bevets: So to recap: The guy visits a poorly funded museum and discovers that the exhibits fall short of multi million dollar atheists cathedrals. I guess this is easier than engaging people in discussion.


You're never at a loss for excuses, are you?
 
2012-03-09 10:29:14 AM  

FriarReb98: I absolutely LOVE that they put a stegosaurus on the "ark."


I know, how ridiculous is that picture? Everyone knows stegasauruses didn't eat hay.
 
2012-03-09 10:29:58 AM  

Baron Harkonnen: And that's that. So there's no more need to address you directly.


fark.
 
2012-03-09 10:31:58 AM  

Aarontology: And this is surprising how....

 
2012-03-09 10:34:41 AM  

shivashakti: Via Infinito: This. Isn't building a misinformation museum way more dickish to begin with?

I don't think it is.
They're doing it as a sincere expression of their faith. They're not doing it to be dicks or to spread misinformation. This is what they believe (even if I think it's wrong).

WorldCitizen: Because it needs to be done? They can have their opinions. Fine. Freedom of speech. That doesn't means their opinions shouldn't be criticized and flat out mocked when they are so ridiculous. If for no other reason than they hope to use their fantasy land to spread their myths to kids ruining yet another generation of humans from the ability to think critically.

But is this the best way to bring others to your side or convince them that your side has more validity to it? I think something like this only reinforces the paranoid opinions of fundamentalists that the secularists are out to get them and that science is 'anti-Christian'.


Well, if it were up to me, I would send in a team of scientists to map every inch of that place, tear apart every exhibit based on facts and established science, and then stand out front of the "museum" handing out fliers to anyone entering with that information.

So yes, I think it is important to put out into the public sphere the counterpoints to each of their "arguments." I don't think they should just be able to make stuff up and go unchallenged.

There is a certain segment of loons who will never be able to have the critical thinking skills/sanity to understand the basic concepts of science. However, there are many people dragged into that culture by accident of birth or personal relationships who otherwise have the critical thinking skills to "get it" if presented with the scientific views on the nature of the universe. It is for those people why I think it is important to very publicly put out the counterpoints and/or just point out how false/ridiculous some of the creationist statements are.

And for the true loons, no amount of rational discussion is going to convince them out of their belief system, and no amount of rational discussion is going to make them less paranoid about secularist being out to get them. If they were rational in the first place, they wouldn't have those beliefs.
 
2012-03-09 10:46:24 AM  

shivashakti: Via Infinito: This. Isn't building a misinformation museum way more dickish to begin with?

I don't think it is.
They're doing it as a sincere expression of their faith. They're not doing it to be dicks or to spread misinformation. This is what they believe (even if I think it's wrong).

WorldCitizen: Because it needs to be done? They can have their opinions. Fine. Freedom of speech. That doesn't means their opinions shouldn't be criticized and flat out mocked when they are so ridiculous. If for no other reason than they hope to use their fantasy land to spread their myths to kids ruining yet another generation of humans from the ability to think critically.

But is this the best way to bring others to your side or convince them that your side has more validity to it? I think something like this only reinforces the paranoid opinions of fundamentalists that the secularists are out to get them and that science is 'anti-Christian'.



Ultimately it is (well anti-religion more generally). Over the course of time, the more scientifically literate a society becomes the less religious it becomes. There's a reason countries like Sweden and Denmark are the least religious while Egypt and Bangladesh are the most; and in a diverse country like the U.S., Mississippi and Alabama are among the most religious while Vermont and New Hampshire are among the least. It's an inevitable part of human nature that there will always be people who have some idea that there's a greater intelligence out there (maybe actively involved, maybe not), but religions are not wrong to think that the strength of their hold over the populace is threatened by a greater understanding of science.
 
2012-03-09 10:49:12 AM  
The painting representing plants growing on Genesis Day 3 (although the sun, which they show, doesn't appear until Day 4)

They can't even display their own shat honestly.
 
2012-03-09 10:54:48 AM  

fat boy: Paging Docent Bevets


Wow.
 
2012-03-09 10:55:01 AM  

revrendjim: serial_crusher: So the first fossil is a fake... just like all the ones in the evolution museums?

Real museums often display reproductions of important fossils, but they are faithful casts of real fossils, not outright fabrications like the ones in the article.


I think you missed the joke.

/ He does use the word "replica" in a non-sarcastic but still condescending manner in several places though. I think he did himself a slight disservice by seeming as upset about the low-budget stuff as he did about the made-up-bullshiat stuff.
 
2012-03-09 10:55:40 AM  
i236.photobucket.com

This one's real.
 
2012-03-09 11:12:28 AM  

fat boy: Paging Docent Bevets


That is uncanny.
 
2012-03-09 11:12:41 AM  

Bevets: atheists cathedrals


Pffft! They're more like atheist amphitheaters or atheist trade shows.
 
2012-03-09 11:14:59 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: fat boy: Paging Docent Bevets

That is uncanny.


It's because he's about the only one in here not on B's ignore.
 
2012-03-09 11:18:20 AM  
[CSB]

A couple churches in the area put together "Creation Tours" of the Natural History Museum in Denver. After running into one such group we wanted to know how the museum gets off doing that and asked an assistant curator. They told us it's completely not affiliated with the museum and that anyone could be running those.

My girlfriend, I, and two others decided we'd do our own... so after a bit of research we started doing like the zealots and standing outside with fliers that offered our "Creation Tour" that offered a "Holy Scripture" view of the dinosaur and evolution sections.

We got exactly two groups through before someone complained and the Museum escorted us out for causing a disturbance.

Apparently it's only ok if it is Christian tours, and a bunch of Christians expecting to have their Holy Indignation fluffed in front of a bunch of dinosaur bones don't like being told that according to the scriptures, Tiamat created this race of monsters to rise up against Ea and Marduk, and their very existence proves the validity of the Enuma Elish. And of course they don't exist today because Marduk won.

Yeah, they don't like that at all.

[/CSB]

/it was a good way to spend a Saturday back when I used to have to look for ways to fill a weekend
//seems like way too much effort now
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-03-09 11:20:31 AM  

fat boy: Paging Docent Bevets


Perfect timing!
 
2012-03-09 11:22:23 AM  
If truth in advertising laws worked like they should, that place would have to bill themselves as "Young Earth Creation Museum"
 
2012-03-09 11:26:05 AM  
Its good to see that they are institutionalizing the stupid.
 
2012-03-09 11:29:42 AM  
Had a very odd moment yesterday: had some time to kill between Job interviews and I was across the street from the Smithsonian Natural History museum so I decided to duck in for a while. Tje new thing since the last time I'd been there was a Human Origins exhibit that was not only De-LUXE but so matter of fact about human evolution that it was nearly in your face.

No hemming and hawing, no "some people believe differently" bullshiat, just THIS is the facts about how we evolved and HERE is the proof

In the center was a movie playing in a loop that emphasized how humans alive today are a single species with 99.9% of their DNA in common (and a not at all subtle message about human brotherhood that this implies). but it was what they said at the very end of that video that really threw me for a loop:

"Welcome to the David H. Koch Hall of Human Origins" and yes, i checked, it's THAT David H. Koch
 
2012-03-09 11:30:31 AM  

unlikely: [CSB]

A couple churches in the area put together "Creation Tours" of the Natural History Museum in Denver. After running into one such group we wanted to know how the museum gets off doing that and asked an assistant curator. They told us it's completely not affiliated with the museum and that anyone could be running those.

My girlfriend, I, and two others decided we'd do our own... so after a bit of research we started doing like the zealots and standing outside with fliers that offered our "Creation Tour" that offered a "Holy Scripture" view of the dinosaur and evolution sections.

We got exactly two groups through before someone complained and the Museum escorted us out for causing a disturbance.

Apparently it's only ok if it is Christian tours, and a bunch of Christians expecting to have their Holy Indignation fluffed in front of a bunch of dinosaur bones don't like being told that according to the scriptures, Tiamat created this race of monsters to rise up against Ea and Marduk, and their very existence proves the validity of the Enuma Elish. And of course they don't exist today because Marduk won.

Yeah, they don't like that at all.

[/CSB]

/it was a good way to spend a Saturday back when I used to have to look for ways to fill a weekend
//seems like way too much effort now


That is fantastic.
What kind of disturbance did you cause to get the museum to escort you out? I mean, were they escorting out all the other creation tours too?
 
2012-03-09 11:33:45 AM  

unlikely: A couple churches in the area put together "Creation Tours" of the Natural History Museum in Denver. After running into one such group we wanted to know how the museum gets off doing that and asked an assistant curator. They told us it's completely not affiliated with the museum and that anyone could be running those.

My girlfriend, I, and two others decided we'd do our own... so after a bit of research we started doing like the zealots and standing outside with fliers that offered our "Creation Tour" that offered a "Holy Scripture" view of the dinosaur and evolution sections.

We got exactly two groups through before someone complained and the Museum escorted us out for causing a disturbance.

Apparently it's only ok if it is Christian tours, and a bunch of Christians expecting to have their Holy Indignation fluffed in front of a bunch of dinosaur bones don't like being told that according to the scriptures, Tiamat created this race of monsters to rise up against Ea and Marduk, and their very existence proves the validity of the Enuma Elish. And of course they don't exist today because Marduk won.

Yeah, they don't like that at all.


LOL
 
2012-03-09 11:33:57 AM  

Baron Harkonnen: In a sense, I can understand this. The Biblical literalists believe they are battling for the heart and soul of Christianity versus the world of science, a world which totally repudiates everything they believe and hold dear. And they're correct. They are.


They're fighting for "hearts and souls". Not brains.

// that's Zombie Reagan's turf
 
2012-03-09 11:37:33 AM  

vpb


Did they really even need to make the trip?


Unfortunately, yes. Until they did, the charlatans could hide behind the "You haven't seen the artifacts, your argument is invalid!" bullspit.
 
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