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(RedState)   $3.4 billion annually in tax preferences to "Big Oil": A horrible drain on the federal treasury that should be investigated. $24 billion IN ONE YEAR to "Green Industries": Nothing to see here, Mr. Taxpayer   (redstate.com) divider line 186
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825 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Mar 2012 at 4:35 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-08 05:33:45 PM

aug3: if people had to pay for the full cost of Nuclear power on their monthly bill there would be riots in the streets


Also they don't tell you about when Nuclear plants need to be decommissioned those costs last for decades. That's why they are keeping them running years past when they were supposed to to hide that. That's why they are trying to build new ones now before old ones get decommissioned. They are so expensive because they are radioactive.

People will be paying "Nuclear decommission" fees for decades after plants are offline.
 
2012-03-08 05:38:43 PM

Corvus: But even that is a lie. Because the US right now is a net fossil fuel exporter.


From the BP statistical review of world energy report:

The US produced 7,513,000 barrels of oil a day in 2010.

The US consumed 19,148,000 barrels of oil a day in 2010.

We are not energy independent.
 
2012-03-08 05:39:28 PM
One of these things is the future of our infrastructure and economy.
The other is not.
 
2012-03-08 05:40:37 PM

Lando Lincoln: Corvus: But even that is a lie. Because the US right now is a net fossil fuel exporter.

From the BP statistical review of world energy report:

The US produced 7,513,000 barrels of oil a day in 2010.

The US consumed 19,148,000 barrels of oil a day in 2010.

We are not energy independent.


Oil is not the only fossil fuel.
 
2012-03-08 05:45:04 PM
Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all.

We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.


It is a good thing we have the federal government subsidizing Chevy volts, else there would be absolutely no alternatives
 
2012-03-08 05:45:46 PM

Lando Lincoln: Corvus: But even that is a lie. Because the US right now is a net fossil fuel exporter.

From the BP statistical review of world energy report:

The US produced 7,513,000 barrels of oil a day in 2010.

The US consumed 19,148,000 barrels of oil a day in 2010.

We are not energy independent.



See the work bolded above. It's not the same as what you are talking about.
 
2012-03-08 05:47:15 PM

Lando Lincoln: Corvus: But even that is a lie. Because the US right now is a net fossil fuel exporter.

From the BP statistical review of world energy report:

The US produced 7,513,000 barrels of oil a day in 2010.

The US consumed 19,148,000 barrels of oil a day in 2010.

We are not energy independent.


t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-03-08 05:52:18 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.


What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?
 
2012-03-08 05:53:39 PM

Lando Lincoln: Corvus: But even that is a lie. Because the US right now is a net fossil fuel exporter.

From the BP statistical review of world energy report:

The US produced 7,513,000 barrels of oil a day in 2010.

The US consumed 19,148,000 barrels of oil a day in 2010.

We are not energy independent.


This explains it more:

As the price of natural gas continues to plummet, pressure to export it as liquefied natural gas has increased, and last year the U.S. was a net exporter of refined petroleum products for the first time since 1949. As well, the coal industry is preparing to significantly increase exports of American coal overseas. .

Right not oil. I didn't say oil. But we don't run our cars on oil either. Right now we are burning tons of our natural gas to make expensive petroleum gas to ship overseas.

We are shipping our fossil fuels overseas. Including gas. This is why the "Drill baby drill" is bullshiat because in the context of the world market it means nothing.
 
2012-03-08 05:54:42 PM

Lando Lincoln: Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.

What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?


Your car runs on oil?

Funny most cars I know run on GAS which is a fossil fuel like I stated.

Tell us how your car runs on oil instead of petrol gas?
 
2012-03-08 05:55:44 PM

Lando Lincoln: Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.

What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?


Vehicles are not the only things that consume fuel or energy.
 
2012-03-08 05:56:49 PM

Ayn Rand's Social Worker: Both of which total less than 5% of what China is spending on them. But you'd rather we become a vassal state to the Chinese after we're done propping up the house of Saud and Hugo Chavez?


Go live in china if you want to have state-controlled everything.
 
2012-03-08 05:57:22 PM

Lando Lincoln: Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.

What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?


WOW. You think your car runs on oil not on refined gasoline?
 
2012-03-08 05:58:21 PM

o5iiawah: Ayn Rand's Social Worker: Both of which total less than 5% of what China is spending on them. But you'd rather we become a vassal state to the Chinese after we're done propping up the house of Saud and Hugo Chavez?

Go live in china if you want to have state-controlled everything.


I'm sorry where did he say he wanted state-controlled everything?
 
2012-03-08 06:01:30 PM

Lando Lincoln: Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.

What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?


Almost every road going vehicle operates off of 8-15% corn alcohol (ethanol) or a similar percentage of biodiesel - so about 300 million cars in the US. There's also some ~250,000 CNG/LPG powered vehicles in the US.
 
2012-03-08 06:02:02 PM

Lando Lincoln: Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.

What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?


My car runs on gasoline (a petroleum refined fuel) and electricity. Tell us about yours that runs on oil.
 
2012-03-08 06:02:50 PM
o5iiawah:

Ayn Rand's Social Worker: Both of which total less than 5% of what China is spending on them. But you'd rather we become a vassal state to the Chinese after we're done propping up the house of Saud and Hugo Chavez?

Go live in china if you want to have state-controlled everything.


Wow...

Just... Wow.
 
2012-03-08 06:04:41 PM

Lando Lincoln: Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.

What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?


I thought cars ran on GAS.

In a first, gas and other fuels are top U.S. export (new window)

Measured in dollars, the nation is on pace this year to ship more gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel than any other single export, according to U.S. Census data going back to 1990. It will also be the first year in more than 60 that America has been a net exporter of these fuels.
 
2012-03-08 06:08:39 PM
I guess Lando Lincoln got too busy pumping out oil from the ground for his car to be able to respond.
 
2012-03-08 06:08:48 PM

Corvus: Lando Lincoln: Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.

What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?

WOW. You think your car runs on oil not on refined gasoline?


Yeah, it definitely does. It runs on gasoline. And the tanker truck that delivered that gas? It runs on diesel.

And both of those products are derivatives of crude oil.

In which we make only 1/3 of what we currently consume in this country.

So you can tout all of the wonderful amounts of LNG that we're producing and exporting you like, but the vehicles that make our society function don't run on NG.
 
2012-03-08 06:08:54 PM

Corvus: tenpoundsofcheese: Let me try a couple questions for you.
1. what is the value of that oil if it can't be reached, refined or distributed?
2. what innovations and investments were required to reach oil that was considered unreachable just 40 years ago?
3. per gallon of gas how much profit does the oil company get vs. the State of California?
4. why do they call it "gas" when it is in liquid form?

You'd have a point if the oil companies weren't the most profitable companies on the plant. Too bad they are, which obviously means they are getting what their selling at a cheap price.


That really is a stupid argument.

You are saying they are getting what they sell at too cheap a price and yet you are mixing up the idea of the "most profitable" with "makes the most profit margin".

Profit margin is where you sell your product for a LOT more than the raw materials and costs. That is what you are whining about.

Well guess what, of the top 20 companies with the highest profit margin, only one is an energy company, Devon Energy which does natural gas.

Exxon isn't even in the top 50.

Sure they make a lot of money based on the volume, but their profitability as a percentage of what they sell is low.
 
2012-03-08 06:09:10 PM

Corvus: Lando Lincoln: Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.

What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?

I thought cars ran on GAS.

In a first, gas and other fuels are top U.S. export (new window)

Measured in dollars, the nation is on pace this year to ship more gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel than any other single export, according to U.S. Census data going back to 1990. It will also be the first year in more than 60 that America has been a net exporter of these fuels.


I will now point out to you that gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel are not the only fossil fuels.
 
2012-03-08 06:13:03 PM

Lando Lincoln: Corvus: Lando Lincoln: Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.

What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?

WOW. You think your car runs on oil not on refined gasoline?

Yeah, it definitely does. It runs on gasoline. And the tanker truck that delivered that gas? It runs on diesel.

And both of those products are derivatives of crude oil.

In which we make only 1/3 of what we currently consume in this country.

So you can tout all of the wonderful amounts of LNG that we're producing and exporting you like, but the vehicles that make our society function don't run on NG.


Gasoline and oil are not the same thing!!


Your numbers talked about OIL not GASOLINE. You said your car ran ON OIL.

What our cars don't run on GASOLINE? because that's what I AM talking about. Not what you are talking about.

Your stats were about OIL not gasoline.
 
2012-03-08 06:14:24 PM

MrSteve007: Almost every road going vehicle operates off of 8-15% corn alcohol (ethanol) or a similar percentage of biodiesel - so about 300 million cars in the US.


That's like saying that since 100% of cars have glass materials in them, 100% of cars are made of glass.

There's also some ~250,000 CNG/LPG powered vehicles in the US.

And what's the total estimated amount of vehicles in the US?
 
2012-03-08 06:15:37 PM

Lando Lincoln: Corvus: Lando Lincoln: Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.

What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?

WOW. You think your car runs on oil not on refined gasoline?

Yeah, it definitely does. It runs on gasoline. And the tanker truck that delivered that gas? It runs on diesel.

And both of those products are derivatives of crude oil.

In which we make only 1/3 of what we currently consume in this country.

So you can tout all of the wonderful amounts of LNG that we're producing and exporting you like, but the vehicles that make our society function don't run on NG.


Tell us about your car that runs on OIL instead of GAS like you said. Or was that a misstatement? My comments are about GAS.

Much of the OIL we import is so we can make GAS we export. You consider that "consuming oil"?
 
2012-03-08 06:16:40 PM

Lando Lincoln: MrSteve007: Almost every road going vehicle operates off of 8-15% corn alcohol (ethanol) or a similar percentage of biodiesel - so about 300 million cars in the US.

That's like saying that since 100% of cars have glass materials in them, 100% of cars are made of glass.

There's also some ~250,000 CNG/LPG powered vehicles in the US.

And what's the total estimated amount of vehicles in the US?


And how many run on GAS and not OIL?

But you seem to think oil is more important then gas. They are not the same things.
 
2012-03-08 06:17:49 PM

Lando Lincoln: In which we make only 1/3 of what we currently consume in this country.


Oil or gas? You seem not to understand the difference between the two.

The US lack oil but has tons of gas. You know the things or cars actually run on?
 
2012-03-08 06:17:52 PM
tenpounsofcheese:

Profit margin is where you sell your product for a LOT more than the raw materials and costs. That is what you are whining about.

To be fair, I don't know of any solar / wind / biofuel projects that get entire navy carrier groups deployed halfway across the planet.
 
2012-03-08 06:18:47 PM

Lando Lincoln: So you can tout all of the wonderful amounts of LNG that we're producing and exporting you like, but the vehicles that make our society function don't run on NG.


You are aware that it takes NATURAL GAS to make GASOLINE from oil?

I doubt it because you don't even understand the difference between oil and gas.
 
2012-03-08 06:19:35 PM

EnderKR: How dare we give money to clean energy startups that have little to no cash and/or chance of surviving in an oil-filled economy! Better give all that money to the oil companies instead, so they don't have to use their 60 BILLION DOLLARS worth of saved up cash, instead!


It is the fact that Green energy tends to be a bit more renewable (In our life-times). See, if oil fields would fill back up after a decade of not pumping from them then I would have little issue with oil staying the preferred energy / other materials source. But the fact is oil takes quite a bit longer to renew that our race is able to wait around for.

Investing in alternate energies that have a short renew cycle is a very good place to put our tax dollars.
 
2012-03-08 06:19:35 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Profit margin is where you sell your product for a LOT more than the raw materials and costs. That is what you are whining about . . .
Sure they make a lot of money based on the volume, but their profitability as a percentage of what they sell is low.


That isn't the whole story though.

Oil companies are allowed to account for their product on both a LIFO and FIFO accounting process. This allows for them to easily control their margins.

Example - they pump crude out of the ground when the price is $60 a barrel and hold onto it. A few years later, the pump oil out of the ground when it's worth $120 a barrel, and put it into a different tank. The next week, price of oil drops to $100 a barrel. Which oil do they chose to put onto the market? The one that sees nearly a 50% profit margin? Or the one that takes a 20% 'loss?'

The smart oil company takes a bit from the crazy profitable oil and mix in a bit of the 'loss' oil and balances out their total profit margin to be very, very low. That way their tax burden is far less - yet they yield a huge total profit.

It's all an accounting shell game when it comes to oil companies. The amazing thing is that it's all legal - and they get to invest in the same oil futures they produce.
 
2012-03-08 06:20:27 PM

Corvus: Lando Lincoln: Corvus: Lando Lincoln: Philip Francis Queeg: Oil is not the only fossil fuel.

What percentage of vehicles operate on things other than oil?

WOW. You think your car runs on oil not on refined gasoline?

Yeah, it definitely does. It runs on gasoline. And the tanker truck that delivered that gas? It runs on diesel.

And both of those products are derivatives of crude oil.

In which we make only 1/3 of what we currently consume in this country.

So you can tout all of the wonderful amounts of LNG that we're producing and exporting you like, but the vehicles that make our society function don't run on NG.

Gasoline and oil are not the same thing!!

Your numbers talked about OIL not GASOLINE. You said your car ran ON OIL.

What our cars don't run on GASOLINE? because that's what I AM talking about. Not what you are talking about.

Your stats were about OIL not gasoline.


You're saying that since we export more oil-derived products than we consume, we therefore must produce more petroleum base materials than we need.

That does not take into account how much oil we import, then process, then export those products back into the world.

Your statistic that we export more gas than we use ourselves only points to the fact that our capabilities of processing crude oil has exceeded our need and has nothing to do with energy independence.
 
2012-03-08 06:22:41 PM

Corvus: Lando Lincoln: So you can tout all of the wonderful amounts of LNG that we're producing and exporting you like, but the vehicles that make our society function don't run on NG.

You are aware that it takes NATURAL GAS to make GASOLINE from oil?

I doubt it because you don't even understand the difference between oil and gas.


Yes, I'm aware of that. And I'm also aware that it really doesn't have anything to do with the fact that we only produce 1/3 of the amount of oil that we consume.
 
2012-03-08 06:22:58 PM

Lando Lincoln: And what's the total estimated amount of vehicles in the US?


which run mostly on GAS not oil:

The volume of fuel exports is rising. The U.S. is using less fuel because of a weak economy and more efficient cars and trucks. That allows refiners to sell more fuel to rapidly growing economies in Latin America, for example. In 2011, U.S. refiners exported 117 million gallons per day of gasoline, diesel, jet fuel and other petroleum products, up from 40 million gallons per day a decade earlier.

The US exports tons of gas to other nations.

We import oil and use our own fossil fuels to make gas we then export. If we didn't export these we wouldn't need the oil in the first place. Can't you wrap your head around that?

You think the word oil and gas mean the same thing. They don't.
 
2012-03-08 06:25:35 PM

Lando Lincoln: Your statistic that we export more gas than we use ourselves only points to the fact that our capabilities of processing crude oil has exceeded our need and has nothing to do with energy independence.


Yes because NATURAL GAS is cheap. You know the thing you said that makes no difference.

But the oil we import then ship out as gas that then uses our fossil fuels to create is not "A national dependency" nor does it help US gas prices.


You car runs on gasoline not oil. They are not the same thing.
 
2012-03-08 06:26:00 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Aarontology: There's a difference between loans and direct subsidization.

No there isn't. Also, the president is a black man, did you know? Read more on breitbart.com


That is not possible! The constitution says you have to be a natural born citizen and I am fairly certain that Niger is not in my America!
 
2012-03-08 06:26:57 PM

Lando Lincoln: Corvus: Lando Lincoln: So you can tout all of the wonderful amounts of LNG that we're producing and exporting you like, but the vehicles that make our society function don't run on NG.

You are aware that it takes NATURAL GAS to make GASOLINE from oil?

I doubt it because you don't even understand the difference between oil and gas.

Yes, I'm aware of that. And I'm also aware that it really doesn't have anything to do with the fact that we only produce 1/3 of the amount of oil that we consume.


You are then why did you say this:

Lando Lincoln: So you can tout all of the wonderful amounts of LNG that we're producing and exporting you like, but the vehicles that make our society function don't run on NG.


We do use Natural gas to make gasoline. just admit it you had no clue what you are talking about.
 
2012-03-08 06:27:14 PM
Here's the CBO report that they're citing, so those who are NGTRTFA won't have to.
 
2012-03-08 06:29:54 PM

Lando Lincoln: Yes, I'm aware of that. And I'm also aware that it really doesn't have anything to do with the fact that we only produce 1/3 of the amount of oil that we consume.


[citation please about the 1/3]

Also are you counting the oil we make into fossil fuels and EXPORT as "oil we consume"?

You consider making gas we sell to other countries the "US consuming that oil"?
 
2012-03-08 06:36:05 PM

Lando Lincoln: That does not take into account how much oil we import, then process, then export those products back into the world.


You are counting this as "Oil the US 'consumes'" - That's complete bullshiat.

Your statistic that we export more gas than we use ourselves only points to the fact that our capabilities of processing crude oil has exceeded our need and has nothing to do with energy independence.

And reality:

There's at least one domestic downside to America's growing role as a fuel exporter. Experts say the trend helps explain why U.S. motorists are paying more for gasoline. The more fuel that's sent overseas, the less of a supply cushion there is at home.

THE US COULD PRODUCE 300x THE AMOUNT OF OIL IT "NEEDS" BUT IF IT EXPORTED ALL THE GAS ALL OUTSIDE THE US IT WOULDN'T MEAN shiat.


How can you not understand that? Cars run on GAS not oil. All the US is doing is being the gas refinery of the world. That will NEVER make gas in the US cheaper EVER. No matter where that oil comes from.
 
2012-03-08 06:36:47 PM

GoodyearPimp: Not to worry. Oil will last forever!


It will if we just fire up them drills, frackers and pipeline makin' machines! Ayup yup. We're sitting on a million years a oil. Sez so right here.
 
2012-03-08 06:38:22 PM
As several posters have noted, China is fixing to clean our clock (new window) in this industry. Worse yet, so is India.
 
2012-03-08 06:38:54 PM

Lando Lincoln: That does not take into account how much oil we import, then process, then export those products back into the world.

Your statistic that we export more gas than we use ourselves only points to the fact that our capabilities of processing crude oil has exceeded our need and has nothing to do with energy independence.


Ok you explain to us:

How would if the US made all of it's own oil but then still exported all the gas it created gas prices would go down?

It wouldn't! Gas and oil are commodities and they are sold to the highest bidder it doesn't matter much where it came from.
 
2012-03-08 06:40:00 PM

Aarontology: There's a difference between loans and direct subsidization.


The difference being that oil only gets the second and green gets both?

//And there's nothing wrong with either?

Flaming Yawn: GoodyearPimp: Not to worry. Oil will last forever!

It will if we just fire up them drills, frackers and pipeline makin' machines! Ayup yup. We're sitting on a million years a oil. Sez so right here.


Eh, we've likely got another century or so. Not a huge deal, but worth planning ahead for.
 
2012-03-08 06:40:38 PM

James!: You can bet your ass China is plowing money into alternatives to oil. Perhaps you'd like to let them take over the market, America can start making little plastic toys.


Well, that is pretty much the Republican plan. Take our wealth, transfer it to China and India and turn the US into the 3rd world slave wages center of the world. They are succeeding.
 
2012-03-08 06:41:20 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Exxon isn't even in the top 50.


Exxon is number 1


List of companies by revenue (new window)


1 ExxonMobil Oil and gas $486.429[2] 2011 $368,711 83,600[2] NYSE: XOM United States Irving, Texas, United States Rex W. Tillerson
 
2012-03-08 06:43:44 PM

Corvus: tenpoundsofcheese: Exxon isn't even in the top 50.

Exxon is number 1


List of companies by revenue (new window)


1 ExxonMobil Oil and gas $486.429[2] 2011 $368,711 83,600[2] NYSE: XOM United States Irving, Texas, United States Rex W. Tillerson


CORRECTION: Sorry that was Revenue not profit.

Exxon however is also #1 profit:

1 Exxon Mobil 2 30,460.0

Chevron is #3

3 Chevron 3 19,024.0

Top companies: Most profitable (new window)
 
2012-03-08 06:46:46 PM

BMulligan: As several posters have noted, China is fixing to clean our clock (new window) in this industry. Worse yet, so is India.


Normal right wing talking point to this:

China has low wages? We need lower wages to compete in the global market!!!
China has shiat labor laws? We need shiat labor laws to compete in the global market!!!
China is putting 1.7 Trillion into green energy? fark YOU! we don't want to be like those communists in China! USA! USA!
 
2012-03-08 06:51:48 PM
Those of you so willing to spend my money on a technology that has yet to be proven to be an economical choice vs oil and gas, a technology that China can supply componets for far cheaper than the US (Solyndra ring a bell) a technlogy that will have to be mandated to be used due to lack of interest by the vast majority of people in the US.
You are the same type of people who believe that the best way to put out a fire is to smother it with more wood.
 
2012-03-08 06:54:56 PM

Corvus: You think the word oil and gas mean the same thing. They don't.


How many times do I have to tell you? I know there's a difference between gasoline and oil. I know that we're good at processing oil into gasoline. So much so that we create more gasoline than we need, so we sell gasoline to other countries.

Let's look at this another way. You want to talk about gasoline? Fine. Let's talk about gasoline.

From the EIA website:

In 2010, the United States consumed about 137.76 billion gallons (or 3.28 billion barrels1) of gasoline, a daily average of about 377.58 million gallons (8.99 million barrels). This was about 3% less than the record high of about 142.38 billion gallons (or 3.39 billion barrels) consumed in 2007.

Also from the EIA website:

U.S. refineries produce about 19 gallons of motor gasoline from one barrel (42 gallons) of crude oil.

And we also know that the US produces about 7,513,000 barrels of oil a day.

Okay.

Gallons of gas consumed in US in 2010 = 137,760,000,000

Barrels of oil produced daily in the US in 2010 = 7,513,000

Multiply daily barrels by 365 and you get 2,742,245,000 barrels for the whole year

Multiply the total barrels by 19 (19 gallons of gas for each barrel of oil) and you come up with 52,102,655,000

52 billion gallons of gas produced is smaller than 137 billion gallons of gas consumed, so therefore we do not create as much oil as we personally consume as a nation in relation to gasoline.
 
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