fireclown: am I the only person who remembers the Israeli attack on the nuclear plant at Osarak? I find it odd that there is a lot of talk of the possibility of the Israeli Air Force attacking a nuclear facility, when they have done so before.

Didn't anyone else watch the cockadoodie film? It seems that this should be part of the discussion, but it's like it fell down the memory hole.


Aaaactualy....

Iran was the first country to attack Iraqs nuclear program. First chance they got. Two F-4 Phantoms.......

Kind of ironic huh? They attacked their neighbors nuclear program (specifically to slow down the program they suspected was making a bomb).

But they don't want anyone attacking their program.....

palladiate: Then by all means, let's all waste billions of dollars and hundreds of innocent lives. If we get lucky, it could spiral out of control to a few trillion dollars and thousands of innocent lives like the last time we went hunting for weapons of mass destruction.

Oh so now it's a full scale invasion of Iran that's being talked about? Or maybe it would be limited to missiles and bombs to the knee of Iran's nuclear facilities.

Funny how nobody biatched when Obama got involved in strikes on Libya, a country that didn't pose a threat to the US or their allies but is all butthurt over the thought of the US taking action to support one of their allies.

Tatsuma: On the other hand, if Israel strikes before the election, Obama will absolutely have no choice to help Israel if he wants to be re-elected. He would have the most to lose, in that sense

Why would he have no choice? Israel does not direct the American military. Israel has bombed nations before without the direct assistance of the US. What the Israeli government is trying to do is get a gang together to back them up. It's like when a short guy wants to fight someone and he tries to convince is larger buddies to join him. If anything the Israeli government is full of pussies for not actually having the balls to fight a war by themselves. If they knew they could be Iran and any retaliatory strike, they would have already done it, like they did in Lebanon.

So what..

I read it this way.

Israel is planning to attack Iran during a vulnerable time in Obama's reelection campaign in an attempt to throw the election to the Republicans.

What Obama is saying to Israel is that if they attack Iran they will NOT be getting any new weapons.

netcentric: Iran was the first country to attack Iraqs nuclear program. First chance they got. Two F-4 Phantoms.......

There was a war on, ya know.

Talk about stuff that fell down the memory hole, the Iran-Iraq war is a hall of famer. Nobody remembers it, and it was only three years gone when Gulf War 1 started in 91. And that was a big war, with mass casualties, standing armies, fighter jets, the whole nine yards.

cman: thamike: Tatsuma: It is not even clear that Iran, in such a situation, would want to retaliate directly. It is more likely that it would answer with terrorists attacks and more threats.


That is basically the feeling on the ground here.

You aren't on the ground "there" asshole. You live in a sofa full of crumbs, dingleberries, and back hair, somewhere in the US.

Thats not very nice...

But right on the money.

/Its MO NAY.

I'm not in favor of giving Israel weaponry.

I'm in favor of selling Israel weaponry.

How about everyone stop being dickholes.

fireclown: netcentric: Iran was the first country to attack Iraqs nuclear program. First chance they got. Two F-4 Phantoms.......

There was a war on, ya know.

Talk about stuff that fell down the memory hole, the Iran-Iraq war is a hall of famer. Nobody remembers it, and it was only three years gone when Gulf War 1 started in 91. And that was a big war, with mass casualties, standing armies, fighter jets, the whole nine yards.

But there weren't any white people in it, right? Not even one abandoned ex-Marine fighting his way from Tehran to Baghdad to save the woman he loves from Saddam's rape palaces?

No money to fix Social Security, but plenty of money to send troops and bomb Syria?

Mishno: The US is almost self-sufficient in energy now.

What are you talking about? The US imports ~10 million barrels of oil a day.

Cant we just check all these Mideastern crazies into a mental hospital? They are obviously a danger to themselves and others. Oh right, Reagan shut them all down.

/People who believe in an afterlife are unresponsive to normal incentives.

What? The US selling weapons to another country to defend itself against an imminent threat? Why, I've never heard of such a thing!

Every move Obama makes, political chess or otherwise, I really like. Dead serious...if Repubs would get even a little bit on board, we could focus this country's energy on great things.

Tatsuma: Because the vast majority of the American population is on Israel's side in this conflict, and Obama letting Israel being bombarded and attacked while staying on the sidelines while doing nothing a few months before the election would be political suicide

Whether you like it or not, the majority of Democrats are pro-Israel.

You are confusing an unprovoked attack by Arab forces on Israel with a war started by Israel. Americans, especially non-Jewish Americans will not be gung ho about picking up a rifle and heading to war if it's the latter. If I get punched in the face in a fight I started, no one would feel sorry for me. If Bibi and his buddies think the American populace would be willing to spend trillions more in money and thousands more in American lives, they are dangerously wrong. Which is evident by Bibi's trips to Canada and Europe over the last few weeks. They know that America will not being coming over the hill to save them and they are looking for someone else to back them up.

You are going to have to resign yourself that if you start down this path, you walk it alone.

Tatsuma: Because the vast majority of the American population is on Israel's side in this conflict, and Obama letting Israel being bombarded and attacked while staying on the sidelines while doing nothing a few months before the election would be political suicide

Most Americans Want U.S. to Stay Neutral if Israel Attacks Iran

Another Pretentious Nickname: But there weren't any white people in it, right? Not even one abandoned ex-Marine fighting his way from Tehran to Baghdad to save the woman he loves from Saddam's rape palaces?

Probably some Turks mixed up in it. Best I can do.

The point is that I don't know how a war that killed damned near a million people is THAT obscure. I'm not a political scientist or anything, and I wasn't born knowing about it. How this (and my original complaint about nobody remembering the LAST Israeli attack on an arab nuclear research facility) doesn't come into conversation at all boggles me.

/shakes tiny, newsprint stained fist.

Tatsuma: Saying that America should stay neutral if Israel attacks Iran is not the same as saying America should stay neutral if Iran bombards the fark out of Israel

It has everything to do with what you said. The only way Iran would even consider firing missiles at Israel is if Israel provoked them with a bombing campaign. The article, and this entire narrative is precipitating on if Israel is going to instigate a shooting war with Iran or not.

Tatsuma: Oh yeah and here is the thread where I posted a time-stamped picture from Jerusalem

I love it when people cannot defeat my argument, so they try to attack my credibility with obvious falsehoods instead.

Dude, that's your proof you're in the Mediterranean Levant? A blurry, dark, and unreadable photograph?

Tatsuma: And I think that you are really misreading your average American.

The average American cares about finding a job, keeping a roof over their head, and how the bills will get paid. If anyone is misreading the average American it's Bibi. He is assuming that every American is pro-Israel because those the government talk a strong game because they fund their campaigns.

Outside of the Jewish community in America there are three groups of Americans that Israel has to deal with. The 10% that are Klan and think all Jews should die, the 10% that a hippie liberals who think Israel is owed a beating because of their treatment of Palestinians, and the 80% that have no strong feel about Israel either way.

Half Right [TotalFark]

Meh, John Stewart's coverage of this whole situation on Tuesday pretty much said it all--this is all posturing, but all three parties.

/If Israel does something stupid, we should not rescue them. They need to stop settling and Palestine should be recognized as a nation by all parties. It's the only thing that makes any sense.

Yeah, leave it to at Total-Fark-Tard to get his news and information from a dancing clown on Comedy Central.

threadjackistan: Tatsuma: Oh yeah and here is the thread where I posted a time-stamped picture from Jerusalem

I love it when people cannot defeat my argument, so they try to attack my credibility with obvious falsehoods instead.

Dude, that's your proof you're in the Mediterranean Levant? A blurry, dark, and unreadable photograph?

Not that I dont believe you, but that's a terrible photograph.

fireclown: netcentric: Iran was the first country to attack Iraqs nuclear program. First chance they got. Two F-4 Phantoms.......

There was a war on, ya know.


Yep, but none the less . The first opportunity Iran got, they took.
And it was really the first time that a preventive attack on a nuclear site (which aimed to forestall the development of a nuclear weapon). It did not achieve its objective beause France later repaired the reactor for Iraq).

So Iran griping is very ironic.

netcentric: fireclown: netcentric: Iran was the first country to attack Iraqs nuclear program. First chance they got. Two F-4 Phantoms.......

There was a war on, ya know.


Yep, but none the less . The first opportunity Iran got, they took.
And it was really the first time that a preventive attack on a nuclear site (which aimed to forestall the development of a nuclear weapon). It did not achieve its objective beause France later repaired the reactor for Iraq).

So Iran griping is very ironic.

Wouldn't that also make any Israeli complaints about the killing of civilians very ironic?

omnibus_necanda_sunt: [img571.imageshack.us image 400x600][img36.imageshack.us image 400x600]

How do we have the same ignore list?

beer4breakfast: Mishno: The US is almost self-sufficient in energy now.

What are you talking about? The US imports ~10 million barrels of oil a day.

More and more oil and gas is coming from shale formations every month. Before long, the largest part of what we do import will be from Canada. Build a fence I say.

netcentric: So Iran griping is very ironic.

Oh hell yeah it is. (dead serious)

Do you have a good source on the Iranian attack on Osirak? Everything I can dig up is sort of sketchy.

fireclown: (and my original complaint about nobody remembering the LAST Israeli attack on an arab nuclear research facility)

From Israel, hitting an Iranian facility is much, much harder than one in Iraq. Iraq was in, drop bombs, and out. Poof, done.

Going to Iran is much farther, which means KC-130 or 707 tankers, of which Israel has a few. Where? Orbiting over Iraq, to gas up on the way in and again on the way out. And transiting Saudi or Jordanian airspace. Which then means fighter escort for the tankers.
They have, however, used these before during an operational raid.

Can it be done? Yes, probably. But it is no way comparable to the Osirak mission.

Wow we are farking dumb.

I think it's funny that the same people wanting Obama to go to war were the same that were criticzing him for sending unmanned drones to Libia.

I want a President that think before he acts. Not a war hungry cowboy. Was is a neccesarry evil sometimes but it must be the last resort.

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Going to Iran is much farther, which means KC-130 or 707 tankers, of which Israel has a few. Where? Orbiting over Iraq, to gas up on the way in and again on the way out. And transiting Saudi or Jordanian airspace. Which then means fighter escort for the tankers.

There would be many more targets too, and it would have to be a sustained bombing campaign of at least several days. Think infrastructure targets too, like power generation and transmission facilities. Civilians would die and suffer. And after the bombing campaign was over sanctions would still have to be put or left in place to keep these facilities from being repaired. I'm sure the warmongers will justify keeping copper wire from being sold to Iran as "dual use" technology.

But Israel ueber alles, right?

threadjackistan: netcentric: fireclown: netcentric: Iran was the first country to attack Iraqs nuclear program. First chance they got. Two F-4 Phantoms.......

There was a war on, ya know.


Yep, but none the less . The first opportunity Iran got, they took.
And it was really the first time that a preventive attack on a nuclear site (which aimed to forestall the development of a nuclear weapon). It did not achieve its objective beause France later repaired the reactor for Iraq).

So Iran griping is very ironic.

Wouldn't that also make any Israeli complaints about the killing of civilians very ironic?

I honestly don't know what your coment means. ?

Iran was the first nation to attack a neighbors nuclear program (Iraq's).

Maybe you have to elaborate, but how does that correlate to killing civilians?.

Are you making the assertion that Israel was the first nation to ever kill a civilian? We better GOOGLE that. Because world history would probably say differently....

netcentric: Kind of ironic huh? They attacked their neighbors nuclear program (specifically to slow down the program they suspected was making a bomb).

But they don't want anyone attacking their program.....

That's actually the complete opposite of ironic.

America sent troops to Iraq, but, for some reason, we get all touchy when other nations suggest doing the same to us. How ironic, amirite?

I really look forward to Obama's press conference in 2013 where he tells the world, "Now witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational Israel!"

Honestly what do we get from backing Israel? They are more of a liability to the US than anything. They don't produce anything we can use that we can't get elsewhere, they don't provide us with political stability in the region and they are in the process of systemically eliminating the Palestinians.

omnibus_necanda_sunt: [img571.imageshack.us image 400x600][img36.imageshack.us image 400x600]

Holy shiat I'm in a card.