Old topic or not, it is sure to prompt some lively but temperate, solid, rational debate with mutual respect for ideas presented on both sides.

You know, I always wondered why the Redskins were going so hard after the 4 time MVP record setting qb of the colts who was 5-0 at that point in the season. Now I know.

(jesusfarkingchristthelistofDE'swhowantedtoknockpeytonmanningoutofthe g ameincludesalltheoneshesuitedupagainst)

I sprained my ankle playing softball and I'm also pretty sure it had something to do with the Saints bounty system.

BountyGate's well on its way to making Penn State's Fark threads seem rational. What did people think football was, a chess match?

they're all trying to hurt each other. It's football. Stop trying to make yourself feel better about watching a violent game.

MugzyBrown: You honestly see no difference between somebody being hurt in the course of the game and somebody being hurt because they were intentionally targeted to be knocked out of the game?

The crime was codifying, monetizing, and talking about it. Every DE in the league is lionized in their own locker room if they knock a qb out of the game with a (legal) hit. Illegal hits get penalties (usually) and fined (probably). If a qb has bruised ribs, the defense blitzes. If a RB or WR has a partial cast, they put a spy on him and try to strip the ball. Football is and always has been Lord of the Flies. Roethlisberger was repeatedly mauled after he hurt his ankle this year for no other reason then the opponents wanted to beat the team and that was the best way to do it. Favre was hobbled - of course they were gonna go after him and he said as much himself.

JohnBigBootay: You know, I always wondered why the Redskins were going so hard after the 4 time MVP record setting qb of the colts who was 5-0 at that point in the season. Now I know.

(jesusfarkingchristthelistofDE'swhowantedtoknockpeytonmanningoutofthe g ameincludesalltheoneshesuitedupagainst)

As I said yesterday. I know several NFL players through my job. Let there be no doubt they would be more interested in hurting you even for a "paltry" $1,000.

Seems like a pretty good way for Peyton to recoup that $28 million bonus he just lost.

SharkTrager: As I said yesterday. I know several NFL players through my job. Let there be no doubt they would be more interested in hurting you even for a "paltry" $1,000.

Meaningless. Sacking the qb always means more money for these guys in about a dozen different ways. For one thing, it's their freakin' job to hit him at every opportunity.

SharkTrager: JohnBigBootay: You know, I always wondered why the Redskins were going so hard after the 4 time MVP record setting qb of the colts who was 5-0 at that point in the season. Now I know.

(jesusfarkingchristthelistofDE'swhowantedtoknockpeytonmanningoutofthe g ameincludesalltheoneshesuitedupagainst)

As I said yesterday. I know several NFL players through my job. Let there be no doubt they would be more interested in hurting you even for a "paltry" $1,000.


By "hurting you" you mean that they never called the next day? Just hang on to those memories, trick, they'll get you through the heartbreak.

MugzyBrown: You honestly see no difference between somebody being hurt in the course of the game and somebody being hurt because they were intentionally targeted to be knocked out of the game?

That's a loaded question, but I'll bite.

What I honestly believe is that the best players on *every* offense are intentionally targeted by *every* defense, week in and week out, bounty or no bounty. That doesn't quite fit as answer to your question, though.

JohnBigBootay: SharkTrager: As I said yesterday. I know several NFL players through my job. Let there be no doubt they would be more interested in hurting you even for a "paltry" $1,000.

Meaningless. Sacking the qb always means more money for these guys in about a dozen different ways. For one thing, it's their freakin' job to hit him at every opportunity.

Especially these days when those opportunities are getting fewer and fewer. A DL may only get one good solid lane to the QB per game, you think he's not going to hit him with everything he's got?

JohnBigBootay: SharkTrager: As I said yesterday. I know several NFL players through my job. Let there be no doubt they would be more interested in hurting you even for a "paltry" $1,000.

Meaningless. Sacking the qb always means more money for these guys in about a dozen different ways. For one thing, it's their freakin' job to hit him at every opportunity.

Doing your job by sacking the quarterback or violently striking the upper torso resulting in career ending injuries... clearly no difference. Is Suh your role model?

JohnBigBootay: For one thing, it's their freakin' job to hit him at every opportunity.

The paycheck is the bounty, and that's the ugly truth of the NFL.

Two guys, fighting for the same job. One guy creams the quarterback, other guy two-hand touches, steps aside. Who makes the team?

Flappyhead: A DL may only get one good solid lane to the QB per game

Jay Cutler would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Just as soon as the the two linemen get off him.

Flappyhead: Especially these days when those opportunities are getting fewer and fewer. A DL may only get one good solid lane to the QB per game, you think he's not going to hit him with everything he's got?

Exactly - those that can pull it off get to keep their million dollar jobs and adulation by the public. Those that can't, go home.

Look, I think the bounty program stinks. The NFL really has no chance but to come down on the saints. I just think it's all PR. I watched the game(s) in question - I just don't see how the saints defenders acted any differently than they would have because of that program. And it ain't like - the refs were in on it. Even one more roughing the passer/personal foul call in that game could have changed the whole outcome. This is one of the more ludicrous conspiracy theories I've seen. The Saints defenders were trying to hammer Brett Favre in the NFC championship game? Well, yeah, of course they were.

IKanHazaBukkit: Doing your job by sacking the quarterback or violently striking the upper torso resulting in career ending injuries... clearly no difference.

You talking about legal hits in both cases? Then yea, clearly no difference.

IKanHazaBukkit: Doing your job by sacking the quarterback or violently striking the upper torso resulting in career ending injuries... clearly no difference. Is Suh your role model?

Go away. I think people clearly overestimate the ability of off-balance, exhausted, 300 pound behemoths moving at light speed to target a specific area of the body of their equally agile target which is also moving quickly and trying to deceive them. I love it when armchair quarterbacks talk about tackling technique. Now there's a problem with the upper torso? I thought they were trying to maim him by hitting him low?

MugzyBrown: JohnBigBootay: Every DE in the league is lionized in their own locker room if they knock a qb out of the game with a (legal) hit

And that's something you support?

It's something I accept as part of the game and as part of human nature.

Again, though, I haven't exactly answered your loaded question.

MugzyBrown: And that's something you support?

Am I happy to see players injured? Never. But I do quite enjoy the NFL game as played so I suppose I do unconsciously accept that injuries will be common. You're living in a dream world if you think you can dream up some kind of football where big hits don't get accolades. I'll be just fine if no player ever gets a concussion again but hard hitting? Yeah, I do like that.

JohnBigBootay: You know, I always wondered why the Redskins were going so hard after the 4 time MVP record setting qb of the colts who was 5-0 at that point in the season. Now I know.

(jesusfarkingchristthelistofDE'swhowantedtoknockpeytonmanningoutofthe g ameincludesalltheoneshesuitedupagainst)

There is a difference between dropping the hammer on someone with a legal hit and making an illegal high-low hit while wrenching their neck so hard you rip the helmet off. It was a dirty play and not something that should be encouraged in any way.

Droog8912: There is a difference between dropping the hammer on someone with a legal hit and making an illegal high-low hit while wrenching their neck so hard you rip the helmet off. It was a dirty play and not something that should be encouraged in any way.

Yep - there are definitely personal fouls and missed calls in NFL games. That play wasn't flagged was it? Should have been - could have changed the whole game. I don't think Saints defenders risked league fines, potentially game-changing roughing calls, and possibly thereby the NFC championship for a locker room bounty. Do you? Is that what you're saying? That the players would have proceeded differently absent that program and just hit favre a bit more gently so they wouldn't hurt him?

IKanHazaBukkit: JohnBigBootay: SharkTrager: As I said yesterday. I know several NFL players through my job. Let there be no doubt they would be more interested in hurting you even for a "paltry" $1,000.

Meaningless. Sacking the qb always means more money for these guys in about a dozen different ways. For one thing, it's their freakin' job to hit him at every opportunity.

Doing your job by sacking the quarterback or violently striking the upper torso resulting in career ending injuries... clearly no difference. Is Suh your role model?

Hey, woah, there's no need to bring him into this. Let's just focus on how the Saints are dirty cheapshot artists who are specifically coached to be dirty cheapshot artists and are financially rewarded for being dirty cheapshot artists.

MugzyBrown: The culture has to change, or the sport will eventually die.

I'm old enough to remember this rhetoric from at least as early as the 70's.

If the sport's gonna die, it ain't dying in MY lifetime.

MugzyBrown: I can dream of an NFL where players don't try to injure other players. It's really not that big of a leap.

See, that's where we disconnect. I don't think there's very much injury intent going on out there. The fact is these guys are huge and fast and legal hits injure players just fine. At it's most gentile football is running away as fast as you can before engaging in a wrestling contest with multiple combatants which can only end in going out of bounds or being taken down forcibly. As long as that's football people will be hurt frequently.

LOL

I couldn't be due to the fact he has a farking giraffe neck, could it?

ChaffedTitty: LOL

I couldn't be due to the fact he has a farking giraffe neck, could it?

I always thought he looked part cardasian....

JohnBigBootay: SharkTrager: As I said yesterday. I know several NFL players through my job. Let there be no doubt they would be more interested in hurting you even for a "paltry" $1,000.

Meaningless. Sacking the qb always means more money for these guys in about a dozen different ways. For one thing, it's their freakin' job to hit him at every opportunity.

If you knew them you'd know it's not meaningless. They respond very well to these type of immediate bonuses. While they may get a bonus for sacks, a direct $1,000 for laying someone out in a specific game will motivate them.downtownkid: SharkTrager: JohnBigBootay: You know, I always wondered why the Redskins were going so hard after the 4 time MVP record setting qb of the colts who was 5-0 at that point in the season. Now I know.

(jesusfarkingchristthelistofDE'swhowantedtoknockpeytonmanningoutofthe g ameincludesalltheoneshesuitedupagainst)

As I said yesterday. I know several NFL players through my job. Let there be no doubt they would be more interested in hurting you even for a "paltry" $1,000.


By "hurting you" you mean that they never called the next day? Just hang on to those memories, trick, they'll get you through the heartbreak.

Now that was funny.

Treygreen13: Tony Dungy is a good example of how you can respect a player/coach immensely until they start to talk on television.

See also: Emmitt Smith.

I don't see(*and never have seen) the Emmit thing. Butthurt Cowboys hater? Or something else you want to share?

IAmRight: You know, as long as it's not Super Bowl XL related, I'm finding I agree with JohnBigBootay more and more each time I come here.

You must be getting old. And not be a Vikings fan.

/I was rooting hard for the Vikings and Favre in that game. I just don't think the Saints played any differently than everyone else due to the bounty program.

Gestankfaust: Treygreen13: Tony Dungy is a good example of how you can respect a player/coach immensely until they start to talk on television.

See also: Emmitt Smith.

I don't see(*and never have seen) the Emmit thing. Butthurt Cowboys hater? Or something else you want to share?

Emmitt is a diamond among turds.

He's a ton of fun.

Link (new window)

SharkTrager: If you knew them you'd know it's not meaningless. They respond very well to these type of immediate bonuses. While they may get a bonus for sacks, a direct $1,000 for laying someone out in a specific game will motivate them

Sure. As would the adulation of your peers. Kangaroo courts and big play reward pots are as old as sports. I remember Jerry Kramer talking about the Packers kangaroo courts and locker room fines/rewards in his '67 Packer Diary Instant Replay. And the injury part of this program stinks and it has to go. But as I said I don't think the Saints players played any differently than they would have without the program. I don't know why this all seems so scandalous to be honest - it's unseemly for sure. But growing up playing football in the Southeast I'd have been a rich man if I had a nickel for every time a coach said 'put your hat on somebody!' (read: illegally spear thereby attempt to intentionally injury your opponent!). Football is violent and dangerous. We're gonna demonize the saints, but having watched the games they looked like they played like all the rest of the teams to me. Your average Steeler/Raven contest is a bloodbath twice a year.

IAmRight: I actually just think we both pretty much agree that 90 percent of the "scandals" are overhyped BS that people should STFU about.

Just like Super Bowl XL, amirite? :)

IAmRight: I actually just think we both pretty much agree that 90 percent of the "scandals" are overhyped BS that people should STFU about.

I just can't stand mob rule. So when the lynch mob (and this is not nearly so bad as some other controversies have been, with many people being quite reasonable about the whole thing) gets together and (some - very few mercifully) folks start calling for stripped titles and lifetime bans, etc. I just try to look at the whole picture and ask myself what the real effect of this program was. So far as I can tell it's just typical macho locker room horseshiat that went too far. Outside of one play in the NFC champ. game which should have drawn a flag which would have jeopardized the outcome of the game, I see nothing. If the saints were advocating for intentional injury, the data would seem to suggest the program bore no fruit.

IAmRight: AdmirableSnackbar: Just like Super Bowl XL, amirite? :)

I don't care about it until Steelers fans bring it up. Ultimately a bunch of people I don't know in a city I don't live in got cheated out of a legitimate chance at a ring (and I got cheated out of $350 I probably would've eventually lost anyway).

At least the Steelers had a player from my hometown on their team (von Oelhoffen).

/I just have to remind myself that the actual people from Pittsburgh I know have been nice, unlike Steelers fans in WA, who mainly are Steelers fans just to piss off Seahawks fans (probably because the "Steelers fans" tend to be assholes who like to make people mad).

I get it, I just find it funny that you brought it up in this thread and then posted the sentence that I quoted. Just trying to take the piss out of you since it's been a while.

Anyway, sounds like the Steelers fans you experience in WA are like Cowboys fans in the Philly area.

Slow To Return: Gestankfaust: Treygreen13: Tony Dungy is a good example of how you can respect a player/coach immensely until they start to talk on television.

See also: Emmitt Smith.

I don't see(*and never have seen) the Emmit thing. Butthurt Cowboys hater? Or something else you want to share?

Emmitt is a diamond among turds.

He's a ton of fun.

Link (new window)

I did not know this existed, and now (or at least next season), I cannot live without it.

Treygreen13: Did you just accuse me, of all people, of being a Cowboys hater?

Yeah. That comment was a bit out of line with reality I'd say.

Yeah, Emmitt Smith is an all-time great. He just happened to attend the James Harrison school of public speaking.