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(NPR)   Only exceptional people can truly taste the difference between a $15 and $150 bottle of wine   (npr.org ) divider line
    More: Cool, Merlot  
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17931 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Mar 2012 at 4:39 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-06 06:44:57 PM  

patrick767: Result: Every wine snob alive will insist that they are one of these expert super tasters and can totally get the very subtle nuances that you're missing. Most of them will only be correct to a point -- TFA says experience counts for something and of course it does -- but they won't really have the physiology for it.

I've sampled thousands of different beers. I know I can appreciate aspects that someone who drinks nothing but Budweiser won't, and I know I've broadened my palate in terms of what flavors I like. However, I also know that I'm not that nuanced about it. I don't rattle off a lengthy list of traces of this or that ingredient I taste and smell in the beverage.


You are obviously not a modern drunkard.

The Subtle Art of Beer Snobbery (new window)
 
2012-03-06 06:45:03 PM  
Although I've learned more about wine there is still a soft part in my heart for:

www.cousino1970.com
\hot

I buy some every couple of years. It takes me right back to high school days. When I was dating the Mrs. we would take a bottle and a blanket out to the park when the afternoon was sunny. Those were the days.

As for the article, I heard a guest on "The Splendid Table" not too long ago that had good advice. (I paraphrase) Try different wines. When you find one you like tell your wine shop owner so he can recommend similar wines. If you are lucky you will love the $20 bottle over the $60 bottle and you should accept that and be happy.
 
2012-03-06 06:45:46 PM  

Ben Enya: [www.vsattui.com image 196x170]


That brings back memories of the early 1980's when I lived in Sunnyvale. Used to go to Napa with friends and we always stopped at V. Sattui for a picnic lunch.
 
2012-03-06 06:46:24 PM  

T.rex: NowhereMon: Most people can't even tell the difference between white and red wine if they are blind folded.

Hell, most people can't tell the difference between wine and beer if blindfolded.


Most people can't tell malt liquor from UFIA blindfolded. Though I'm pretty sure I can. I have sophisticated tastes.
 
2012-03-06 06:47:17 PM  

GQueue: hard time picking out, say, which was which from a blind tasting of 5 IPAs or pale ales.


Wouldn't that just be 10 pale ales?
 
2012-03-06 06:47:42 PM  

rkiller1: I call bullshait. A few months ago, a group of us dads conducted a blind taste test for a dozen red wines. Result: we ranked them EXACTLY in price order. Yes, most expensive was ranked the best.

/A neighbor shared a $1,200 bottle of wine during our last boys-night-out poker game. It was off-the-charts spectacular.


A boys-night-out, and you all are drinking fancy ass wine? I bet there's not a male in the lot of ya!

/maybe there was a male in some of ya later...
 
2012-03-06 06:48:54 PM  
Someone paid over $72 million for this piece of art by Mark Rothko that my 3 year old could have done. To me this seems like a grossly overpriced crayon explosion. I'll take my $9 bottle of whatever is on sale this week and enjoy it to the last drop. I suppose you need to have an "educated" pallet/set of eyes to understand overpriced garbage. I realize I didn't make my point very clear but I had good intentions. No slashies today ah-thank you. Let me just finish by saying I wouldn't kick a $1,000 bottle out of bed if someone gave it to me. ( :
www.aboutmostexpensive.com
 
2012-03-06 06:49:25 PM  

munko: the gf can tell if i had mickey d's or taco bell. you know how?


The receipt ?
 
2012-03-06 06:50:27 PM  

max_pooper: You need to venture into town and hit up the downtown location. It's pretty ridiculous.


Been there once. Piss poor parking, isles too close together, was hoping for more wines from the Mediterranean area. Nice, though. Was a bit crowded when I went so I didn't stay long. Wish they'd move to a new/larger location with better parking.
 
2012-03-06 06:54:15 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: WaltzingMathilda: there is very delicious expensive wine. there is "no complaints" expensive wine. there is very not delicious expensive wine. there is very delicious cheap wine. there is "no complaints" cheap wine. there is very not delicious cheap wine.

the difference is the frequency with which a certain taste shows up in a price range. if you drink wine to catch a buzz, identify a few "no complaints" wines in the cheap category. if you drink wine because you like delicious wine and don't want to spend money, identify a couple of delicious cheap wines. if you want delicious wine and you want a variety of wines to drink, well, sometimes you're going to spend money because there just aren't a lot of delicious cheap wines. and if you fall into that last category, there's a perfectly good counterpoint to the ridiculous statement that people drink expensive wines for the sole purpose of bragging.

My ex-gf's parents live in St. Helena and her dad was president of one of the wineries up there. Needless to say, these people know good wine and can afford to drink whatever they want. So what do they and their equally knowledgeable wine-loving friends up there love to do? Find delicious bottles of wine in the $20-40 range. They know that anyone can find a great bottle of wine for a lot of money, and they all have a lot of money, so a $150 bottle of wine doesn't impress them (unless it's one they all know already, but the price isn't the impressive part). Finding a great wine for $20 gives them a special thrill because it's harder to do.


that definitely sounds like a lot of fun for people passionate about wine. i am not, so luckily i fall into the category of wanting to have a few standby affordable wines that are delicious for dinners, etc. i don't desire too much variety so i don't have to spend money searching for others.
 
2012-03-06 06:55:43 PM  

bboy: I'm sort of getting bored with these Jillette/Freakonomics style "let's burst their bubble" type things.


Did you know that you can get your bubble burst just as well by cheaper methods? Most people can't even tell the difference!
 
2012-03-06 06:56:48 PM  

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: Pretty much all alcohol tastes like shiat.

It's funny watching you boozers argue over it.


You know how I can tell you've never had a well made apple pie moonshine?

Done right it's like drinking an apple pie. Then you try to stand up and realize that drinking that quart jar might not have been such a good idea
 
2012-03-06 06:57:53 PM  
i can tell the difference between a $5 and a $15 bottle of wine, but i doubt i could tell a $15 from a $150, or upwards (not that i ever have drank any wine would would cost $150 retail---probably haven't had one which exceeded $40)
 
2012-03-06 07:03:30 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: Pretty much all alcohol tastes like shiat.

It's funny watching you boozers argue over it.

You know how I can tell you've never had a well made apple pie moonshine?

Done right it's like drinking an apple pie. Then you try to stand up and realize that drinking that quart jar might not have been such a good idea


Just uh, hypothetically, if one were so interested, where might one find such a beverage?
 
2012-03-06 07:04:19 PM  
I admit to not being terribly discerning and also not rich, so I generally get Yellowtail Merlot for my red or Cavit Pinot Grigio for my white. Also, I am reminded of this, which I watched on Netflix last weekend...

24.media.tumblr.com

/Hotlinked
 
2012-03-06 07:04:55 PM  

rkiller1: I call bullshait. A few months ago, a group of us dads conducted a blind taste test for a dozen red wines. Result: we ranked them EXACTLY in price order. Yes, most expensive was ranked the best.

/A neighbor shared a $1,200 bottle of wine during our last boys-night-out poker game. It was off-the-charts spectacular.


you gud d@mnn 1 percenters!!!!!

:)
 
2012-03-06 07:05:54 PM  
I notice a difference when I brush my teeth and then drink my $100 bottle out of a plastic ziploc bag.
 
2012-03-06 07:07:14 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: chuck


I traveled to Tucson last month and picked up a case of "Vola" white for $1.99/bottle at the Trader Joes. It's imported from Italy, and the year is 2010. On the bottle it says "Trebbiano Pinot Grigio Indicazione Geografica Tipica" I guess that that means "we take grapes from wherever and make wine" I really like it!

/my local package shop carries a wine that sells for less than $5 plus tax, and it's very good also.
 
2012-03-06 07:07:22 PM  
I'm wondering why there's an apparent reverence for "supertasters". How do you get superiority out of this, really?

It's not a skill which helps others, because TELLING people something tastes different when they can't taste it is pointless.

It's not necessarily a skill which helps you enjoy life, since from one perspective it means many otherwise great wines will render with unpleasant tastes to you, while others are rendered as pleasant. You could either say the extra discrimination makes some wines taste more excellent than others perceive it as, but I don't see how you'd justify that belief. Many non-"supertasters" enjoy wine quite wholeheartedly without being able to perceive minor differences in tone, which seem irrelevant to its basic taste.
 
2012-03-06 07:07:29 PM  
Well duh, its $125 dollars ... idiot.
 
2012-03-06 07:08:08 PM  
I must be exceptional then, because I have yet to have a $10 - $15 bottle that rivals a Pride Reserve Cab or a Phelps Insignia. That being said, those certainly aren't the wines I'm drinking every night, and there are plenty of damn tasty bottles in that range (particularly from Italy). I do agree there are plenty of wines commanding $100+ that are absolute plonk, however ... but that's a different story.
 
2012-03-06 07:08:32 PM  
"Cost Plus World Market" has a good selection and great prices if you live near one.

/hard to find brews too
 
2012-03-06 07:10:53 PM  
Only exceptional people

Actually, no. ANYONE can learn how to distinguish fine wines. It's a learnable trait.

U mad, subby? NPR?
 
2012-03-06 07:12:06 PM  

GQueue: Beers, on the other hand, have a lot of differences, but even there, most self-proclaimed beer snobs would have a hard time picking out, say, which was which from a blind tasting of 5 IPAs or pale ales.


IPA's are my favorite, and there is a vast difference between brands. I'm drinking a Loose Cannon right now, and to me it doesn't have the crisp hop flavor that others have. If you gave me a blind taste test with this and a Sierra Nevada Torpedo , I'd nail them down before I even took a sip.
 
2012-03-06 07:12:25 PM  

Gunz_drawn: "Cost Plus World Market" has a good selection and great prices if you live near one.

/hard to find brews too


And genuine Bisto gravy.
 
2012-03-06 07:12:36 PM  
Haven't they also done studies where the wine experts can't tell the difference between a $10 bottle and a $100 bottle when the labels are covered up?
 
2012-03-06 07:13:46 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: T.rex: NowhereMon: Most people can't even tell the difference between white and red wine if they are blind folded.

Hell, most people can't tell the difference between wine and beer if blindfolded.

Most people can't tell malt liquor from UFIA blindfolded. Though I'm pretty sure I can. I have sophisticated tastes a sensitive anus.

 
2012-03-06 07:13:55 PM  

This Looks Fun: Treygreen13: munko: the gf can tell if i had mickey d's or taco bell. you know how?

Your brother's dick tastes like special sauce?

Awesome. I'm going home. My day is done.


maybe i'm too naive but i don't get the joke.
 
2012-03-06 07:14:43 PM  
We are hooked on moscatos after dinner. Awesome stuff out there. We have a pretty good wine selection but it is mainly to look good in the dining room and to please dinner guests. We drink what we think tastes good and fark every one else.

/GF owns a liquor store
//I piss on your ten-percent discount
 
2012-03-06 07:16:10 PM  
Remember the first time you got drunk? Odds are pretty good you puked your guts out from the nasty bitter/sour taste of alcohol which is one of the yuckiest-tasting substances on Earth. About 95% of the 'art of mixology' is just finding ways of covering the taste of alcohol. Seems to me that any liquid with alcohol in it will always taste like crap. If it really were the flavor that people go for, they'd be drinking grape juice or arguing the merits of pomegranate juice vs. cranberry juice.

I always thought this whole wine-tasting thing is just insufferable snobbery. Just a way for pretentious folks to get drunk while still maintaining a psychological distance from the wino clutching his bottle of Thunderbird. Arguing the merits of $2000/bottle Chateau Fromage vs. $2/bottle Boone's Farm is like debating the taste difference between dog poop from a purebred and dog poop from a stray. If it has alcohol in it, it automatically tastes like shiat.

And that's with drinking in general. If you're just out to get drunk, food-grade ethanol diluted with water (i.e. cheapo vodak in a plastic bottle) works best because it has the least impurities in it like methanol that really put the punch into a hangover. Paying for all the top-shelf brands is just a weak attempt to look pretentious and any trivial difference in taste is obliterated after the first few drinks anyways.

As for the Holy Herb, there is a LOT of difference between strains and so there's much more for connoisseurs to care about. Sativa strains tend to be light and psychedelic while indica strains tend to be more sedative in effect. Plus I really like the grassy, flowery smell of good herb. The difference between a chunk of Mexibrick schwag and good skunk is much more pronounced than the diff between snob wine and Boone's Farm. Even with the insane black-market profit margins, $150 spent on a sack of buds will go a hell of a lot further than a $150 bottle of Chateau Fromage any day...

/pot snob
//wine and cigars are for folks who only think they're cool
///marijuana is my anti-corporate-drug
 
2012-03-06 07:17:24 PM  

QuinnTheFetus: Speaking of wine, I'm off to Costco! Great priced wine. Has anyone tried the chocolate wines? I've been too afraid to spend the money to try something I easily imagine throwing up rather than liking.


Why can't you do both?
 
2012-03-06 07:17:30 PM  

Daddy's Big Pink Man-Squirrel: Oh. Nobody seems to remember actually doing this fail-test, they only heard about it. Link (new window). FTA: "experienced wine drinkers can tell red from white by taste about seventy per cent of the time, as long as the test is being administered by someone who isn't interested in trying to fool them."

Given the vast differences in wines it should be no problem to find a few boring (probably young) reds and whites that are so damn generic that you can't taste the difference, assuming you are trying to be an asshole who doesn't care about how much he misrepresents reality as long as those click-throughs happen.

I am no expert, but I can tell a Burgundy from a Claret*. I also think a few of the two-buck-Chucks are drinkable, but only a few, and only as with-food wine, not as a stand-alone connysewer sort of thing. For that I stick to Aussie and Spanish wines, or the occasional Jadot. But my basic table wine is Bull's Blood.

*Fawlty Towers



The point of the Brochet test wasn't to "try to fool them" (the experts), it was to show the subjectivity of taste and our senses in general. He was doing research on neuro sensory development, not just in taste, but since he was located in the heart of French wine country, what better place to utilize how subjective our taste buds are than to use wine tastings.

So when wine drinkers thought a bottle was pricier, they enjoyed the wine more (big surprise there). But to take it a step further, he blind tasted them with white wine vs white wine with food coloring, and asked them to describe each one. Almost all of them described the red colored white wine with terms that were typically used for reds. None of them could spot the difference that they were actually drinking white wine.

The reason is that once the brain picked up that it was red wine they were drinking, the "taste" of red wine had already been developed before their lips even touched the glass. It could have been a glass of milk at that point, it would barely register. Even more interesting, people without experience with drinking wines were more likely to tell it was actually white wine than the wine experts, because their mind hadn't built that predisposition to what a "red" is supposed to taste like from constant repetition. So their non-biases were able to discern that it was actually a lot lighter than what they thought a heavier red should taste like.

So everybody stating "I know the difference", yeah well you might, but that's exactly what's going to trip you up. You see a red wine, and your mind instantly registers that "difference" you "know" before you even take your sip.

We did this on a field trip in the sixth grade, we were supposed to taste the difference between coke and glass of milk, it's actually pretty farking hard. Go ahead and try it with your reds and whites sometime. You'll probably get it, but you'll find it much more difficult than you assumed.

So to claim that the test was "trying to fool them" makes it seem like the California study was only after to get back at Brochet, and completely ignores the findings of his study.


The point isn't that wine experts are dumb and can't tell the difference, it's that our perceptions of quality and taste are influenced by a multitude of sensory factors: vision, olfactory, but probably most importantly, our own perception of value. Somewhere at the very bottom of a long list that influence our perception is the subtleties and nuances of the wine's molecular structure, the climate during it's harvest, the shape of the glass, etc. etc.

Every wine drinker thinks they can tell the difference (they can't), every Cigar smoker thinks they can tell a cuban from a fake (frauds are rife in the U.S. and the fakes are better made anyways), every bottled water drinker thinks they can tell the difference between tap (they can't), every acupuncture patient thinks they can tell the difference between a toothpick randomly pricking at them (the toothepick had the same remedy effect as the proper chi needles) and every homeopathic enthusiast thinks they can tell the difference between distilled water (the homeopathic IS distilled water).

The difference with wine though, the science and theory of what makes a proper wine is perfectly sound, only your human brain will never pick up on it. It's too busy receiving hundreds of contradictory signals 8 ways to Sunday for any of these subtle nuances to register your blunted taste buds and get through all of that. To rigorously defend the difference without being challenged is really just a study in placebo effect.

Speaking of which, almost none of you will ever be challenged to take a blind taste test. Sure you all do it on your computer behind a fark thread. But I know some of you, some of you are allright people, but as soon as I tell you to compare your $80 bottle with a random $15, you act like I insinuated your mother had farking cancer or something. Seriously bros, nobody gets more stuck up and offended when challenged than a wine snob. Something you'll never see a beer snob do. Maybe a vodka drinker might though.
 
2012-03-06 07:17:40 PM  
Well, I think the most expensive wine I ever even tasted was about $60 and the most expensive I ever bought was probably about $45 and I could tell the difference between that and the $15 wines, so either I'm exceptional or wine gets worse when it gets to the $150 range.
 
2012-03-06 07:22:15 PM  
Enjoying this fine Kentucky vintage as I type this:

www.bluekitchen.net

Don't know if it'd be a red or white...but man it goes down smooth.
 
2012-03-06 07:23:05 PM  

Psycat: Remember the first time you got drunk? Odds are pretty good you puked your guts out from the nasty bitter/sour taste of alcohol which is one of the yuckiest-tasting substances on Earth. About 95% of the 'art of mixology' is just finding ways of covering the taste of alcohol. Seems to me that any liquid with alcohol in it will always taste like crap. If it really were the flavor that people go for, they'd be drinking grape juice or arguing the merits of pomegranate juice vs. cranberry juice.

I always thought this whole wine-tasting thing is just insufferable snobbery. Just a way for pretentious folks to get drunk while still maintaining a psychological distance from the wino clutching his bottle of Thunderbird. Arguing the merits of $2000/bottle Chateau Fromage vs. $2/bottle Boone's Farm is like debating the taste difference between dog poop from a purebred and dog poop from a stray. If it has alcohol in it, it automatically tastes like shiat.

And that's with drinking in general. If you're just out to get drunk, food-grade ethanol diluted with water (i.e. cheapo vodak in a plastic bottle) works best because it has the least impurities in it like methanol that really put the punch into a hangover. Paying for all the top-shelf brands is just a weak attempt to look pretentious and any trivial difference in taste is obliterated after the first few drinks anyways.

As for the Holy Herb, there is a LOT of difference between strains and so there's much more for connoisseurs to care about. Sativa strains tend to be light and psychedelic while indica strains tend to be more sedative in effect. Plus I really like the grassy, flowery smell of good herb. The difference between a chunk of Mexibrick schwag and good skunk is much more pronounced than the diff between snob wine and Boone's Farm. Even with the insane black-market profit margins, $150 spent on a sack of buds will go a hell of a lot further than a $150 bottle of Chateau Fromage any day...

/pot snob
//wi ...


Dude, you must be like the first person to ever smoke pot. You're so edgy and cool!
 
2012-03-06 07:23:55 PM  
I've never tried a wine that I liked, and I've never tried a beer I didn't.
 
2012-03-06 07:26:19 PM  

LandOfChocolate: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_condition_%28wine%29

The relevant part:


Which is all moot when corks aren't used.

The mythic value of the cork appears to be just one more turd in the massive pile of bullshiat that is wine snobbery.

/It all tastes like rotten food to me
//Which is what it is
 
2012-03-06 07:27:09 PM  
gauchezco.files.wordpress.com
\hot

I wonder if she is a supertaster?
 
2012-03-06 07:27:13 PM  
I've had some very good wines, but they were picked for me and paired with dinner. It was at Bastille in Alexandria. The only problem with paired wines is that I can never remember what I liked since I'm usually taking in the whole experience. Now I keep a small notebook to record the ones I really fond interesting.

But for my own bar, I just don't drink enough wine to know what I like. So getting surprised by friends or restaurants is how I do it.

Beer on the other hand, I know. I think I like beer more because its easier to get the same beer from year to year since the process is so precise and less prone to weather variation. It's kind of neat to be able to notice if the brewer switches ingredients or the process. It's also depressing when that change results in a poorer beer.

(contacted New Holland after I noticed a flavor change. Turns out the beer was being bottled differently from what I was used to)

Had the same thing happen when a sausage I liked changed. I contacted the manufacturer and they had updated their shipping process so the sausages were fresher. They told me to let them sit out in the air for a few days. Low and behold after a few days the sausages tasted just like I remembered. (brinkerts landjager was the sausage. Also a really awesome company for responding to my sausage OCD emails)

So if you aren't into wine, pick up some landjaeger (it's what a slim Jim fails to emulate) and some New Holland Dragon's Milk (it's a barrel aged ale, I think they use bourbon barrels).

And I'll be certain to try some of the wine suggestions here. Anything to break my wife away from her current Ménage a Trois habit. It was originally a gag gift from her girlfriend, but she really got into it.
 
2012-03-06 07:28:19 PM  
readreidread.files.wordpress.com
What's the word?
 
2012-03-06 07:29:57 PM  

Rent Party: Dude, you must be like the first person to ever smoke pot. You're so edgy and cool!


Damned straight--actually I invented pot smoking. I'm so edgy and cool that my sneering at wine snobbery should pretty much kill off the wine industry.

/days of whine and roses
//pot IS a lot more fun than booze and there's no hangover
 
2012-03-06 07:30:07 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: I'm also put in mind of an experiment that the Colorado Springs Gazette did where they had coffee connoisseurs do blind tastings of various local coffee shops. It turns out that they liked the Starbucks coffee the best, by a pretty good margin (even though coffee snobs will always claim that Starbucks has an unpleasant "burnt" flavor).


It usually does, but that's a byproduct of how long it sits in the container post-brewing. A fresh cup actually is pretty good -- Starbucks does use good beans. They just usually abuse them something awful.

The other thing that's been happening is that roasters have been tailoring their blends to be more like Starbucks -- because that taste sells well.

\friend is a coffee vendor.
 
2012-03-06 07:31:11 PM  
I consider myself a super-taster. Not because of my sense of taste, but because of my sense of smell. This is bad because I get sick to my stomach from strong smells. If the guy 3 cars in front of me ,in 30 mph traffic, is smoking a cigarette I have to turn off the fan on my car to keep from vomiting. It is not always a good thing. But I never developed a picky taste for wine. I like the $3 Wal-Mart chardonnay cold. But I do get picky with cheeses and sushi. I prefer middle eastern cuisine and anything made with the chik-pea, eggplant, cauliflower, rice, olive or lentils and love cheese more than anything else.

I would like to be able to afford an expensive wine taste test just for the challenge of being able to tell the difference. But as long as it is wine and not wood alcohol mixed with fruit juice but grapes made into wine, I will like it.
 
2012-03-06 07:31:17 PM  
man, I always miss the wine threads!
 
2012-03-06 07:31:46 PM  

neetro: I've never tried a wine that I liked, and I've never tried a beer I didn't.


How odd. People are usually divided on whether or not they like hoppy beers.
 
2012-03-06 07:32:47 PM  

ChuDogg: We did this on a field trip in the sixth grade, we were supposed to taste the difference between coke and glass of milk, it's actually pretty farking hard.


How do you not notice the difference in texture?
 
2012-03-06 07:33:40 PM  
But can they tell the difference between a wine with an average size bulldozer on the label and one with a 100,000 lb bulldozer on the label?
img14.imageshack.us
 
2012-03-06 07:34:16 PM  

phildonnia: Eating Old People to Save Social Security: [Two-Buck Chuck]

[www.winelegacy.com image 145x465]


I have several bottles of Menage a Trios in my cupboard. Tried it because I wanted to buy a bottle called Menage a Trios but lo and behold it was good!

Costco Link so you dont have to Google Menage a Trios at work (new window)
 
2012-03-06 07:39:42 PM  
The best $10 wine I've ever come across was a 2007 Castle Rock Pinot Noir. Bought it at Trader Joe's on the recommendation of a friend that worked at a winery in the Burgundy region of France.
 
2012-03-06 07:39:54 PM  
Anybody that can't tell the difference between a $15 bottle and Chateau Margaux is bat shiat crazy!
decanter.media.ipcdigital.co.uk
 
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