StoPPeRmobile: kab: LavenderWolf: Nevermind that building a gaming PC can cost as little as a few hundred dollars. Anyone who spends $1500 on a computer for gaming is a fool.

Or someone that demands higher framerates / resolutions, etc. $1500 isn't a particularly big hurdle to clear for a nice system.

You can get 85% of the performance for 60% of the price if you do it right.

Make me think of using a Ferrari instead of a Accord to go to the grocery store.

If your gaming consists of the equivalent of visiting the grocery store...I highly suggest you stop playing WoW :P

PCs are about having choices, and if I want to play Skyrim with balls-out detail at 5760x1080 resolution I can. Just have to pay for it.

/coincidentally Helifax just released the new version of his fix that fixes the stupid skyrim menus again for triple screen, woohoo!

vastcat: If you want this, you can build it already for about $800 that will get you the following motherboard, a 3.4ghz I7 processor,8GB RAM, and a 2 terabyte drive.. All with a smaller footprint than your Xbox. If you don't have an HDMI cable, spare DVD ROM, Mouse/Keyboard or Windows 7 you're looking at another 200.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500070

This might seem like a lot right now, but the hardware specs will be better than the next generation of consoles that roll out plus you won't have to choose between the next XBOX or Playstation, since both tend to port their games to PC.

This is the value you get for your $400 XBOX 3 (based on cost at original release)
$500 Playstation 4 (based on cost at original release)
$500 200 hour DVR (That is how much 100 hour DVR costs, they don't even make them with this much storage yet)
$400 Personal computer ($400 is about what it costs to get something to run all the basics)

On top of that if something breaks out of warranty, you can easily replace it yourself faster and cheaper than sending in a console to be repaired. You won't need to upgrade your hardware to play anything the next generation of consoles can play, but the option is there if you want to be even faster than those other fools stuck console gaming..

That motherboard only has a X4 PCIe slot. You need a X16 to put a real graphics card in it. It is besides the point since it comes with an integrated processor that is a single core and you can't put a Core-i into that slot. It is about the same price point as a descent Intel board though.

RockofAges: Link (new window)

/sorry, too much wine.

That kit is pretty nice except the GT520 GPU is worthless and is barely. For a $170 you can pick up an ATI HD6870 on tiger. That still puts a screaming rig (minus inputs and screen) below $650.

LavenderWolf: A Terrible Human: LavenderWolf: "easier to hook up"

Sorry, but if you find hooking up a PC at all confusing, you're stupid.

Wires are all shaped and colour coded to avoid confusion.


It's the same damn thing actually. If you can't hook up a pc then you probably can't hook up a video game console either.

I guess he's the sort that pays Best Buy $200 to hook up his PS3.

He's right. Opening a bottle of wine isn't complicated, but it's easier to open a can of beer. My 360 has two cables - HDMI and power. Controllers and network are wireless. My PC has eight cables going into the back. No, it is not complicated, but it is easier to hook up the 360.

LavenderWolf: kab: LavenderWolf: Nevermind that building a gaming PC can cost as little as a few hundred dollars. Anyone who spends $1500 on a computer for gaming is a fool.

Or someone that demands higher framerates / resolutions, etc. $1500 isn't a particularly big hurdle to clear for a nice system.

Nope, that's complete bullshiat.

My sub-$500 computer that I am using right now, purchased in April 2009, still runs new games at smooth, playable framerates, at 1080p.

My Lord.

please tell me what to do to build a nice rig right now.

Father_Jack: LavenderWolf: kab: LavenderWolf: Nevermind that building a gaming PC can cost as little as a few hundred dollars. Anyone who spends $1500 on a computer for gaming is a fool.

Or someone that demands higher framerates / resolutions, etc. $1500 isn't a particularly big hurdle to clear for a nice system.

Nope, that's complete bullshiat.

My sub-$500 computer that I am using right now, purchased in April 2009, still runs new games at smooth, playable framerates, at 1080p.

My Lord.

please tell me what to do to build a nice rig right now.

Start asking in forums at places like here: Tom's Hardware (new window)

They even have some sample build articles and stuff for beginners. Heck, they build at specific price points and compare each of them too. The biggest thing to remember is prices change daily on parts and new or lower cost versions of part come out all the time. So you will want to check prices and reviews right before buying as well as researching before hand. Who knows, you could find a sale on a really good part right before you go to buy!

\always checking is how I ended up with my T1060 six core for the same price as a quad core.

Swiss Colony:
My PC has eight cables going into the back. No, it is not complicated, but it is easier to hook up the 360.

Three. That's all the cables I have on my gaming machine. One is my headset. Just saying that certain styles of PC are as easy to hook up as a 360.

Swiss Colony: LavenderWolf: A Terrible Human: LavenderWolf: "easier to hook up"

Sorry, but if you find hooking up a PC at all confusing, you're stupid.

Wires are all shaped and colour coded to avoid confusion.


It's the same damn thing actually. If you can't hook up a pc then you probably can't hook up a video game console either.

I guess he's the sort that pays Best Buy $200 to hook up his PS3.

He's right. Opening a bottle of wine isn't complicated, but it's easier to open a can of beer. My 360 has two cables - HDMI and power. Controllers and network are wireless. My PC has eight cables going into the back. No, it is not complicated, but it is easier to hook up the 360.

You know, I hear that they make some sort of wireless doohicky for networkin' computer boxes these days. You might be on to something with the controllers though - never once have I seen a modern computer that had bluetooth buil... oh.

You could just as easily have a PC with two cables. Of course, you can just as easily have a 360 with power, A/V, ethernet, and three USB cables... also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 360's "wireless" networking a separate device hooked to it with a cable?

Bonus: not having to pay $5 a month to use the online features of games you already purchased.

/Not particularly a fan of any console or PC
//But the 360 is the least accessible, least versatile of the generation

Keyboard & mouse SUCKS.

I've been gaming since the 70s. I spent a lot of the 80s and 90s gaming on computers, using keyboard & mouse. It sucks. It sucks to be stuck at a desk. It sucks to be hunched over. It sucks to have my face 6" from the screen. It sucks to have to hunt for controls on the keyboard. It sucks to have to re-assign keys every time I get a new game. It sucks to have my elbow cocked at an odd angle to use the mouse.

Keyboard & mouse sucks. If you're still using it, you're not superior; You're stuck in the stone age.

"But I can circle strafe better with keyboard & mouse!"

SO WHAT? Do you play games to relax? I do. Games are recreation for me, and if I don't beat people in an FPS, I don't care! I'm not playing to be the king of the hill. I'm playing to unwind, relax, and have some fun. Getting fragged is as frequently much fun as doing the fragging.

If you take gaming so seriously that you can't give up 10% control precision in favor of 100% freedom from the desk, then you're not gaming; You're working, and I don't want to play any games with you. You take it too seriously.

I want to lean back, put my feet up, and have fun.

I use a wireless controller with both my gaming PC, and with my console. I pity people who are still attached to the keyboard & mouse. Playing a game with keyboard & mouse is like writing a novel with a control pad; It can be done, but it's uncomfortable, awkward, and no fun at all.

To each their own. For my part, I've logged well over 100 hours in Skyrim on my PC, and I haven't used the keyboard/mouse at all, nor would I, because the game would SUCK if I had to resort to that old-fashioned, clunky method of control.

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: Keyboard & mouse SUCKS.

I've been gaming since the 70s. I spent a lot of the 80s and 90s gaming on computers, using keyboard & mouse. It sucks. It sucks to be stuck at a desk. It sucks to be hunched over. It sucks to have my face 6" from the screen. It sucks to have to hunt for controls on the keyboard. It sucks to have to re-assign keys every time I get a new game. It sucks to have my elbow cocked at an odd angle to use the mouse.

Keyboard & mouse sucks. If you're still using it, you're not superior; You're stuck in the stone age.

"But I can circle strafe better with keyboard & mouse!"

SO WHAT? Do you play games to relax? I do. Games are recreation for me, and if I don't beat people in an FPS, I don't care! I'm not playing to be the king of the hill. I'm playing to unwind, relax, and have some fun. Getting fragged is as frequently much fun as doing the fragging.

If you take gaming so seriously that you can't give up 10% control precision in favor of 100% freedom from the desk, then you're not gaming; You're working, and I don't want to play any games with you. You take it too seriously.

I want to lean back, put my feet up, and have fun.

I use a wireless controller with both my gaming PC, and with my console. I pity people who are still attached to the keyboard & mouse. Playing a game with keyboard & mouse is like writing a novel with a control pad; It can be done, but it's uncomfortable, awkward, and no fun at all.

To each their own. For my part, I've logged well over 100 hours in Skyrim on my PC, and I haven't used the keyboard/mouse at all, nor would I, because the game would SUCK if I had to resort to that old-fashioned, clunky method of control.

Sounds like you need masturbation, not a videogame

LavenderWolf: rpm: mavexe: I'm waiting for a steam subscription which let's you play any game in their library, save subscription mmo's. Granted, it'd be ridiculously expensive, like $50/month, but would still be worth it.

This.

This is the only way I'll do anything from steam. Don't pretend like I own it, don't pretend scarcity. Give me a buffet subscription, and I'm in.

Who's pretending anything about scarcity? Valve knows they have infinite supply, and I haven't seen any indication that they put on airs otherwise.

Paying for the individual ones instead of the block (arguable)
They actually do run out during sales, although that's generally third party games, not Valve.

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: Keyboard & mouse SUCKS.... etc

No, what sucks is trying to play a game that is very clearly suited for one sort of controller with another one, and then defending that position simply because it's popular or widely accepted.

So here you go. FPS games with a game pad are shiat, bar none. Any game where your movement or camera view can be limited by the speed of an analog stick falls into this same category.. and that means Gears of War, Dark Souls, Skyrim, etc.

It detracts from the gameplay experience to have these very artificial limits put on the players mobility... and the fact that all your opponents are also faced with the same limitation doesn't make it any better, or more interesting, or fun. It doesn't.

It's like saying splitscreen is an enjoyable game experience. You're lying to yourself. Yeah, you're both in the same room, on the same couch. But you now both have a shiatty half screen view of the game, and know where each other is if you're deathmatching or some such thing. Utterly retarded.

No, the keyboard and mouse aren't good for every game type either. I'd not want to play a platform game on kb/m, or a fighting game, nor any sort of racing / sports game.

kab: So here you go. FPS games with a game pad are shiat, bar none. Any game where your movement or camera view can be limited by the speed of an analog stick falls into this same category.. and that means Gears of War, Dark Souls, Skyrim, etc.
...
It's like saying splitscreen is an enjoyable game experience. You're lying to yourself. Yeah, you're both in the same room, on the same couch. But you now both have a shiatty half screen view of the game, and know where each other is if you're deathmatching or some such thing. Utterly retarded.

I have to agree on genre specificity:
- Analog stick is fine for single player FPS
- KB/Mouse is a must for multiplayer FPS and RTS
- Proper stick is only acceptable input for fighters
- Stick or D-pad for platformers, keyboard... okayish

Though I've got to admit there's not many same-room multiplayer games of say, the Smash Bros, Rockband, Little Big Planet, etc. variety for the PC. Multiplayer couch gaming is pretty much an experience limited to console just by convention alone.

LavenderWolf: Weidbrewer: ZER0T0THEC0RE: Is there room in the market for another game console? Valve seems sure they can pull it off, I seem sure that my 360 720 will be on Craigslist the day this is announced actually hits the shelves

//Would love a valve console, but this is still valve we're talking about

Yeah...so the first one will be ground-breaking, the second one will be rushed out and either be totally beyond awesome or simply that half-step away from greatness that they'll surely achieve with the next one...and then the Steambox 3 will be vaporware for a decade.

"Wah, I want them to release that product."

Quit biatching about Valve's release schedule.

Valve releases when Valve sees fit. We forgive them, because they have not released a game yet that wasn't at least 9/10 for me.

Exactly. Here are two (seperate) reviews of Half Life 2:

Score of 11 (out of a possible 10 points).

"The best game of all time." (a different reviewer used this same exact phrase for Portal 1)

Everything Valve releases is vaporware until it arrives and then everybody bows down to the temple of Gaben.

gozar_the_destroyer: vastcat: If you want this, you can build it already for about $800 that will get you the following motherboard, a 3.4ghz I7 processor,8GB RAM, and a 2 terabyte drive.. All with a smaller footprint than your Xbox. If you don't have an HDMI cable, spare DVD ROM, Mouse/Keyboard or Windows 7 you're looking at another 200.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500070

This might seem like a lot right now, but the hardware specs will be better than the next generation of consoles that roll out plus you won't have to choose between the next XBOX or Playstation, since both tend to port their games to PC.

This is the value you get for your $400 XBOX 3 (based on cost at original release)
$500 Playstation 4 (based on cost at original release)
$500 200 hour DVR (That is how much 100 hour DVR costs, they don't even make them with this much storage yet)
$400 Personal computer ($400 is about what it costs to get something to run all the basics)

On top of that if something breaks out of warranty, you can easily replace it yourself faster and cheaper than sending in a console to be repaired. You won't need to upgrade your hardware to play anything the next generation of consoles can play, but the option is there if you want to be even faster than those other fools stuck console gaming..

That motherboard only has a X4 PCIe slot. You need a X16 to put a real graphics card in it. It is besides the point since it comes with an integrated processor that is a single core and you can't put a Core-i into that slot. It is about the same price point as a descent Intel board though..

Currently it is the best you can do with mini-itx, my whole point was demonstrating how to build a powerful gaming rig into console size. The biggest issue you run into is the most powerful power supply you can get to fit the mini-itx profile is only 400 watts, plus with a more powerful video card you'll run into major cooling issues. Based off the speculations on the system specifications that is the motherboard they would use.

if you want to build an actual gaming PC there are far better options at twice the performance for half the cost. But in order to get into the Console market you have to get the tiny footprint of a micro ITX motherboard. Then the biggest hurdle will be providing sufficient cooling since most console gamers will leave it on 24/7 and have it jammed inside an entertainment center where it isn't getting the best circulation. All while expecting it to operate quietly.

If it were me building the "console PC" I'd find somebody to custom make a domed shaped case with ventilation drilled all the way around it so it looks like an upside down strainer. That way you can ensure you get at least 2 inches of ventilation at all your intake/outtake fans, and the dome shape would keep idiots from trying to sit something on top of it like an ashtray or glass of water.

vastcat: gozar_the_destroyer: vastcat: If you want this, you can build it already for about $800 that will get you the following motherboard, a 3.4ghz I7 processor,8GB RAM, and a 2 terabyte drive.. All with a smaller footprint than your Xbox. If you don't have an HDMI cable, spare DVD ROM, Mouse/Keyboard or Windows 7 you're looking at another 200.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500070

This might seem like a lot right now, but the hardware specs will be better than the next generation of consoles that roll out plus you won't have to choose between the next XBOX or Playstation, since both tend to port their games to PC.

This is the value you get for your $400 XBOX 3 (based on cost at original release)
$500 Playstation 4 (based on cost at original release)
$500 200 hour DVR (That is how much 100 hour DVR costs, they don't even make them with this much storage yet)
$400 Personal computer ($400 is about what it costs to get something to run all the basics)

On top of that if something breaks out of warranty, you can easily replace it yourself faster and cheaper than sending in a console to be repaired. You won't need to upgrade your hardware to play anything the next generation of consoles can play, but the option is there if you want to be even faster than those other fools stuck console gaming..

That motherboard only has a X4 PCIe slot. You need a X16 to put a real graphics card in it. It is besides the point since it comes with an integrated processor that is a single core and you can't put a Core-i into that slot. It is about the same price point as a descent Intel board though..

Currently it is the best you can do with mini-itx, my whole point was demonstrating how to build a powerful gaming rig into console size. The biggest issue you run into is the most powerful power supply you can get to fit the mini-itx profile is only 400 watts, plus with a more powerful video card you'll run into major cooling issues. Based off the speculations on ...

My daughter has this. (new window) It draws 220W and plays Skyrim at a higher quality than a 360. Inside it has a Micro ATX board shoved in there, but uses an ITX power supply. Later on I am going to shove a low profile discrete graphics card in there and a 400W power supply (and maybe up the memory to 8 GB 1600MHz). The GPU will be hybrid cross-fired with the APU and that will give it high enough performance to play Skyrim at High settings with full view distance, all while being under 400W and about the same size as a console.

The GPU that will do this produces so little heat it doesn't even need a fan (the HD 6XXX series cards are based off of high end mobile cards from 2 years ago). The APU barely gets above 60^O C when I ran a burn in test on it (idle was 45^O) The case design is similar to what you are talking about. For the most part, the current generation of chips produces less heat than the last two. (The 360 is from 3 generations ago and has/had some poor heat removal methods)

gozar_the_destroyer: My daughter has this. (new window) It draws 220W and plays Skyrim at a higher quality than a 360. Inside it has a Micro ATX board shoved in there, but uses an ITX power supply. Later on I am going to shove a low profile discrete graphics card in there and a 400W power supply (and maybe up the memory to 8 GB 1600MHz). The GPU will be hybrid cross-fired with the APU and that will give it high enough performance to play Skyrim at High settings with full view distance, all while being under 400W and about the same size as a console.

The GPU that will do this produces so little heat it doesn't even need a fan (the HD 6XXX series cards are based off of high end mobile cards from 2 years ago). The APU barely gets above 60O C when I ran a burn in test on it (idle was 45O) The case design is similar to what you are talking about. For the most part, the current generation of chips produces less heat than the last two. (The 360 is from 3 generations ago and has/had some poor heat removal methods)


If you go to an Micro ATX you're almost doubling the area required for the footprint over a Mini ITX. You can quite easily build a machine much more powerful for half the cost if you plan on going with the larger Micro ATX motherboard. And in my earlier post, the most difficult thing isn't finding high performance items to fit in the case. To fully power the system I lined up takes recommended (50 W for two 4GB sticks of RAM; 120 W for I7 processor, 90W for motherboard, 40W for onboard video; 20W DVD drive, 30W for the HD. That is 350W, since the highest rating Mini ITX power supply is only Bronze rated, at best you can actually use 340W at a time. And if you use more than 60% of the capability of your power supply you're lowering it's lifespan. 400W is barely enough to support that PC with the downside of dramatically shortening the lifespan if you're playing something that requires the components to draw the full power available to them.

So until the components become way more energy efficient or they make a power supply greater than 400W. This is the max system you can build to have the same footprint as a console. Even if a more powerful power supply does come out, you still won't be able to fit two videocards +heatsync in sli or crossfire configuration on this small of a board. Even if somehow you made space there is no way you could keep it cool in such a small area.

vastcat: gozar_the_destroyer: My daughter has this. (new window) It draws 220W and plays Skyrim at a higher quality than a 360. Inside it has a Micro ATX board shoved in there, but uses an ITX power supply. Later on I am going to shove a low profile discrete graphics card in there and a 400W power supply (and maybe up the memory to 8 GB 1600MHz). The GPU will be hybrid cross-fired with the APU and that will give it high enough performance to play Skyrim at High settings with full view distance, all while being under 400W and about the same size as a console.

The GPU that will do this produces so little heat it doesn't even need a fan (the HD 6XXX series cards are based off of high end mobile cards from 2 years ago). The APU barely gets above 60O C when I ran a burn in test on it (idle was 45O) The case design is similar to what you are talking about. For the most part, the current generation of chips produces less heat than the last two. (The 360 is from 3 generations ago and has/had some poor heat removal methods)


If you go to an Micro ATX you're almost doubling the area required for the footprint over a Mini ITX. You can quite easily build a machine much more powerful for half the cost if you plan on going with the larger Micro ATX motherboard. And in my earlier post, the most difficult thing isn't finding high performance items to fit in the case. To fully power the system I lined up takes recommended (50 W for two 4GB sticks of RAM; 120 W for I7 processor, 90W for motherboard, 40W for onboard video; 20W DVD drive, 30W for the HD. That is 350W, since the highest rating Mini ITX power supply is only Bronze rated, at best you can actually use 340W at a time. And if you use more than 60% of the capability of your power supply you're lowering it's lifespan. 400W is barely enough to support that PC with the downside of dramatically shortening the lifespan if you're playing something that requires the components to draw the full power available to them.

So until the co ...

That Gateway system DOES have a MicroATX board in it. The PSU is 250W and the system draws 220W. ITX boards only save power by limiting onboard slots and have an integrated CPU that draws less wattage because it is less powerful.

Here, This is a PSU calculation tool. (new window)

It gives just over 200W for the configuration of that box. Powercolor makes this. (new window) or if you want to go nVidia there is the GTS 450 lowprofile cards. They will both run everything out right now at high settings at 1080i and playable frame rates (See here or Google for test results. The link uses Skyrim and pops)

Each of these draws 75W from the slot and another 75W from a 6pin PCIe connector off the PSU. This puts us up to 341W. Only one watt away from the limit of this ITX PSU! (new window and it has the PCIe connector we need) Considering that I added 4 USB items plugged in and drawing full amps to replicate four controllers plugged in. This could be lowered by using a bluetooth receiver for wireless controllers only, add a WiFi adapter and leave one slot open for storage sticks (or whatever) leaving us with 3 USB. Then we have one case fan, one stick of DDR3 (yes, they make 8GB sticks at 1333 or 1600), one SATA HDD (regular speed), and add a Blu-Ray player to the build since we would want that for a console.

We are at 339W now. The sides are perforated and the APU heatsink draws fresh air from an duct. I am not worried about 400W worth of heat dissipation if I have a vented side, a fresh air case fan, and an exhausting PSU fan at the top. We are getting the extra Wattage by dropping to a 65W quad core compared to the 6 core i7. The reason I chose to do this is we are concerned about power use and it is still a decent processor for install speeds and game performance will not suffer as badly if we spend that power on the GPU.

Maybe we should look at using a core i7 mobile so that we can get more memory channels to the processor and still keep down in that wattage level?

Looks like it would be 55W for the higher end core i7. That would free up a bit of wattage.

ProfessorOhki: Swiss Colony: LavenderWolf: A Terrible Human: LavenderWolf: "easier to hook up"

Sorry, but if you find hooking up a PC at all confusing, you're stupid.

Wires are all shaped and colour coded to avoid confusion.


It's the same damn thing actually. If you can't hook up a pc then you probably can't hook up a video game console either.

I guess he's the sort that pays Best Buy $200 to hook up his PS3.

He's right. Opening a bottle of wine isn't complicated, but it's easier to open a can of beer. My 360 has two cables - HDMI and power. Controllers and network are wireless. My PC has eight cables going into the back. No, it is not complicated, but it is easier to hook up the 360.

You know, I hear that they make some sort of wireless doohicky for networkin' computer boxes these days. You might be on to something with the controllers though - never once have I seen a modern computer that had bluetooth buil... oh.

You could just as easily have a PC with two cables. Of course, you can just as easily have a 360 with power, A/V, ethernet, and three USB cables... also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 360's "wireless" networking a separate device hooked to it with a cable?

Bonus: not having to pay $5 a month to use the online features of games you already purchased.

/Not particularly a fan of any console or PC
//But the 360 is the least accessible, least versatile of the generation

Fair points, but generally speaking a 360 is easier to connect. Just FYI, the wireless adapter for 360 does connect via USB, but it clips to the 360 just above the port so there is never any need to unplug it.

I have wireless keyboard and mouse for my PC, the receiver of course plugs into the USB. The eight cables into my PC are:

USB keyboard and mouse
DVI for monitor
Audio line from sound card to monitor
External USB 2 HD
Ipod Firewire dock
USB hub
USB Fingerprint reader
USB Printer
Ethernet

Yeah, I know that's nine I forgot the Firewire before. No I don't need all these things and yes I know I could have a wireless printer, attach my external HD to the router (it has NAS support) etc. But I can't wirelessly dock my ipod or get sound to my monitor without more wires.

Swiss Colony: Yeah, I know that's nine I forgot the Firewire before. No I don't need all these things and yes I know I could have a wireless printer, attach my external HD to the router (it has NAS support) etc. But I can't wirelessly dock my ipod or get sound to my monitor without more wires.

You're counting 5 that have nothing to do with the gaming functionality. If you wanted to hook the external HD to the 360, it would need a cable too, same with a printer (can you even do that?). If you look at the A/V, power, network, control connections, you've only really got 5. Since you don't count the 360's wifi adapter, you can't really count the receiver for your keyboard (since you don't need to remove that one either), so you're at 4 for the PC vs. 2 for the 360. Closer if you're using 360 on wired network.

If you're going to compare, it's not reasonable to include peripherals that have nothing to with the use case. I mean, external HD on a 360 would need a USB cable too, right?

/I'm impressed by the lack of power cord on your PC
//How'd you manage that :)