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(I Heart Chaos)   Is there room in the market for another game console? Valve seems sure they can pull it off, I seem sure that my 360 will be on Craigslist the day this is announced   (iheartchaos.com ) divider line
    More: Cool, Penny Arcade, Gabe Newell, Craigslist  
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8519 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 Mar 2012 at 12:48 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-05 09:31:03 AM  
"Console"

All signs point to if they release anything it either being an appliance style PC or just a Valve badged desktop. You're looking at something x86 based that will play the Steam library of games(Windows based), or, less likely, only the Valve library of games, which are OpenGL based(customized linux?).

It also could just mean they're going to follow through on what they've already started and stated and bring Steam completely to the PS3
 
2012-03-05 10:05:43 AM  

bhcompy: "Console"

All signs point to if they release anything it either being an appliance style PC or just a Valve badged desktop. You're looking at something x86 based that will play the Steam library of games(Windows based), or, less likely, only the Valve library of games, which are OpenGL based(customized linux?).

It also could just mean they're going to follow through on what they've already started and stated and bring Steam completely to the PS3


I came to say that it looks a lot like a desktop computer, which you seemed to have covered.

: )
 
2012-03-05 10:39:10 AM  
As a console gamer who doesn't want to spend $1,000+ on a gaming PC then another few hundred a year upgrading it, this is highly relevant to my interests.
 
2012-03-05 10:51:08 AM  

bhcompy: All signs point to if they release anything it either being an appliance style PC or just a Valve badged desktop. You're looking at something x86 based that will play the Steam library of games(Windows based), or, less likely, only the Valve library of games, which are OpenGL based(customized linux?).


Well, duh.

FTA: "Apparently meetings were held during CES to demo a hand-built version of the device to potential partners. We're told that the basic specs of the Steam Box include a Core i7 CPU, 8GB of RAM, and an NVIDIA GPU. The devices will be able to run any standard PC titles, and will also allow for rival gaming services (like EA's Origin) to be loaded up. "
 
2012-03-05 11:19:49 AM  

RexTalionis: bhcompy: All signs point to if they release anything it either being an appliance style PC or just a Valve badged desktop. You're looking at something x86 based that will play the Steam library of games(Windows based), or, less likely, only the Valve library of games, which are OpenGL based(customized linux?).

Well, duh.

FTA: "Apparently meetings were held during CES to demo a hand-built version of the device to potential partners. We're told that the basic specs of the Steam Box include a Core i7 CPU, 8GB of RAM, and an NVIDIA GPU. The devices will be able to run any standard PC titles, and will also allow for rival gaming services (like EA's Origin) to be loaded up. "


Which is to say it's not a console.
 
2012-03-05 12:55:09 PM  

AmazinTim: As a console gamer who doesn't want to spend $1,000+ on a gaming PC then another few hundred a year upgrading it, this is highly relevant to my interests.


Yeah that doesn't happen anymore. Mine ran about $600 a couple years ago and I haven't put a dollar into it since. It's nowhere near top of the line but there isn't anything it can't play.
 
2012-03-05 12:55:42 PM  

bhcompy: RexTalionis: bhcompy: All signs point to if they release anything it either being an appliance style PC or just a Valve badged desktop. You're looking at something x86 based that will play the Steam library of games(Windows based), or, less likely, only the Valve library of games, which are OpenGL based(customized linux?).

Well, duh.

FTA: "Apparently meetings were held during CES to demo a hand-built version of the device to potential partners. We're told that the basic specs of the Steam Box include a Core i7 CPU, 8GB of RAM, and an NVIDIA GPU. The devices will be able to run any standard PC titles, and will also allow for rival gaming services (like EA's Origin) to be loaded up. "

Which is to say it's not a console.


I'm waiting for a steam subscription which let's you play any game in their library, save subscription mmo's. Granted, it'd be ridiculously expensive, like $50/month, but would still be worth it.
 
2012-03-05 12:58:58 PM  

bhcompy: RexTalionis: bhcompy: All signs point to if they release anything it either being an appliance style PC or just a Valve badged desktop. You're looking at something x86 based that will play the Steam library of games(Windows based), or, less likely, only the Valve library of games, which are OpenGL based(customized linux?).

Well, duh.

FTA: "Apparently meetings were held during CES to demo a hand-built version of the device to potential partners. We're told that the basic specs of the Steam Box include a Core i7 CPU, 8GB of RAM, and an NVIDIA GPU. The devices will be able to run any standard PC titles, and will also allow for rival gaming services (like EA's Origin) to be loaded up. "

Which is to say it's not a console.


Neither are the current generation of "consoles."
 
2012-03-05 01:00:15 PM  

SuperChuck: AmazinTim: As a console gamer who doesn't want to spend $1,000+ on a gaming PC then another few hundred a year upgrading it, this is highly relevant to my interests.

Yeah that doesn't happen anymore. Mine ran about $600 a couple years ago and I haven't put a dollar into it since. It's nowhere near top of the line but there isn't anything it can't play.


Just wait for it.

"I don't like having to update my drivers every time I turn on my computer" is coming, followed by "I paid $1500 for my computer and it couldn't run the next game to come out" followed by "all the PC games that come out are absolutely unplayable anyway because I saw a glitch one time" followed by "If I had a PC I'd have to upgrade it every 3 months."
 
2012-03-05 01:02:11 PM  
While I was interested in the idea, after reading, it sounds just like a computer. They should spend more time on creating a light OS for their 'console' then putting together hardware specs. If they could make something like a Steam Splash situation that would be just for games, I would put that in my living room if the price was right.

It be even better if they made a stand alone disc-based release for it to put on our own custom boxes. I'd imagine they'd want to partner with nvidia so that only those GPUs work, or Intel for their CPUs that's fine, I'd still go for it.
 
2012-03-05 01:04:42 PM  

Carousel Beast: bhcompy: RexTalionis: bhcompy: All signs point to if they release anything it either being an appliance style PC or just a Valve badged desktop. You're looking at something x86 based that will play the Steam library of games(Windows based), or, less likely, only the Valve library of games, which are OpenGL based(customized linux?).

Well, duh.

FTA: "Apparently meetings were held during CES to demo a hand-built version of the device to potential partners. We're told that the basic specs of the Steam Box include a Core i7 CPU, 8GB of RAM, and an NVIDIA GPU. The devices will be able to run any standard PC titles, and will also allow for rival gaming services (like EA's Origin) to be loaded up. "

Which is to say it's not a console.

Neither are the current generation of "consoles."


In the sense that they require signed software from the hardware provider they are a gaming console, where this thing being discussed isn't since the speculation is that it can run any PC game and use competing services. Essentially a standard open PC
 
2012-03-05 01:05:28 PM  
BTW, from what I read the other day they are considering
http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-x51/pd
for their first roleout (nice gaming PC for only $699 )

I'm not sure how this differs from just buying this machine and installing steam. Probably a custom XBox like controller and version of steam that is designed for said controller rather than a mouse.
 
2012-03-05 01:05:56 PM  

bhcompy: "Console"

All signs point to if they release anything it either being an appliance style PC or just a Valve badged desktop.


You mean like a 360?
 
2012-03-05 01:06:32 PM  

SuperChuck: AmazinTim: As a console gamer who doesn't want to spend $1,000+ on a gaming PC then another few hundred a year upgrading it, this is highly relevant to my interests.

Yeah that doesn't happen anymore. Mine ran about $600 a couple years ago and I haven't put a dollar into it since. It's nowhere near top of the line but there isn't anything it can't play.


This, especially if you already have the tower, keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc it can be pretty cheap to build a system that can last 2-4 years. Though I usually only last two years till I want to build a new system because it is so damn fun and exciting buying computer parts.
 
2012-03-05 01:07:32 PM  
I am right on the cusp of not being able to play some of the newer games. Built a mild computer about 6 years ago, and I am getting near the point of breaking on the GPU and CPU. I wonder what the pricepoint they are going to set on the hardware being selected. If it comes in at about 700 I would buy it in a heartbeat and trash my current tower. I would be hard pressed to build that set at below that point (depending upon the GPU). If more then I get to have the fun of building another.
 
2012-03-05 01:10:00 PM  

AmazinTim: As a console gamer who doesn't want to spend $1,000+ on a gaming PC then another few hundred a year upgrading it, this is highly relevant to my interests.


You do realize that argument doesn't hold water anymore, correct?

The big games are released across all platforms, and they need to make sure the game will be able to run on the 360/PS3.

So, they keep the game's resource usage within the standards for the consoles.

If your computer can run the games currently run by the consoles, it will be able to run all future games run on the consoles.

The only time you'd need to update your computer is when they release a new console and start upgrading the games to fit that console.

Of course, you'd be updating your console anyway.
 
2012-03-05 01:13:13 PM  
Yeah, mine's about 4 yrs old. I'm looking at a new CPU and GPU soonish. Upgrading to bleeding-edge-minus-one shouldn't be more than $700 or so. That every 4-5 years is fine with me and it'll play almost anything current at good to great settings. Anything to avoid a console, though.
 
2012-03-05 01:14:30 PM  
Is there room in the market for another game console? Valve seems sure they can pull it off, I seem sure that my 360 720 will be on Craigslist the day this is announced actually hits the shelves

//Would love a valve console, but this is still valve we're talking about
 
2012-03-05 01:16:36 PM  

ProfessorOhki: bhcompy: "Console"

All signs point to if they release anything it either being an appliance style PC or just a Valve badged desktop.

You mean like a 360?


The 360 isn't a PC or in a PC style because the long dropped part of it is IBM Compatible which generally means x86 based.

The 360 and much of the console market, save the PS3, is Power-PC based because of the power envelope, mounting options, and willingness of vendors to create customized ASICs in the flavor that the customer wants. Try getting Intel to make you some custom x86 parts and they'll tell you to go suck on an egg.
 
2012-03-05 01:20:16 PM  

ChubbyTiger: Yeah, mine's about 4 yrs old. I'm looking at a new CPU and GPU soonish. Upgrading to bleeding-edge-minus-one shouldn't be more than $700 or so.


That's the smart thing to do, especially if you're going to have a PC anyway. Every five years or so, you re-evaluate if you want to upgrade your card/RAM, do a larger overhaul including your mobo and processor, or you can just buy a new box.

Then you look up something like Tom's Hardware and find the benchmarks for what is a terrific value to be near the top of the market, buy it, and play everything on the gaming market for the next 5 years.
 
2012-03-05 01:22:04 PM  

ZER0T0THEC0RE: Is there room in the market for another game console? Valve seems sure they can pull it off, I seem sure that my 360 720 will be on Craigslist the day this is announced actually hits the shelves

//Would love a valve console, but this is still valve we're talking about


Yeah...so the first one will be ground-breaking, the second one will be rushed out and either be totally beyond awesome or simply that half-step away from greatness that they'll surely achieve with the next one...and then the Steambox 3 will be vaporware for a decade.
 
2012-03-05 01:24:21 PM  

soopey: ProfessorOhki: bhcompy: "Console"

All signs point to if they release anything it either being an appliance style PC or just a Valve badged desktop.

You mean like a 360?

The 360 isn't a PC or in a PC style because the long dropped part of it is IBM Compatible which generally means x86 based.

The 360 and much of the console market, save the PS3, is Power-PC based because of the power envelope, mounting options, and willingness of vendors to create customized ASICs in the flavor that the customer wants. Try getting Intel to make you some custom x86 parts and they'll tell you to go suck on an egg.


Fine, the first-gen xbox. You know the one with the *custom* P3? Happy now?
 
2012-03-05 01:24:43 PM  
Hey, can you play a game downloaded from Steam offline? or do you need to be connected to the internet to play?
 
2012-03-05 01:26:56 PM  
This will be a PC obviously since they've stated it will run Origin as well.

However, it'll likely be customized such that the hardware and drivers shipped will be compatible and the specs as designed will hold up a while for gaming. Guessing that the case form factor will be amenable to sitting in your living room and it is a vehicle to sell the controllers Valve is working on.

Basically it'll be the HP and ePC variant for gaming.
 
2012-03-05 01:27:00 PM  

JimbobMcClan: Hey, can you play a game downloaded from Steam offline? or do you need to be connected to the internet to play?


They have an offline mode. You need to log in once every 30 days, though, iirc.
 
2012-03-05 01:29:30 PM  
Entirely relevant. (new window)
 
2012-03-05 01:29:52 PM  

JimbobMcClan: Hey, can you play a game downloaded from Steam offline? or do you need to be connected to the internet to play?


As long as you've signed in once to Steam you can play your games offline barring any publisher specific DRM ( a la ubi).

Sometimes (rarely) steam will get pissy about signing in if you have an internet connection available at which point just unplug your ethernet or disable your wireless... and then it happily goes into offline mode.
 
2012-03-05 01:33:08 PM  

A Leaf in Fall: JimbobMcClan: Hey, can you play a game downloaded from Steam offline? or do you need to be connected to the internet to play?

They have an offline mode. You need to log in once every 30 days, though, iirc.


When did they change this? I played F3 in offline mode for about 4 months (round about the end of 2010) because I could never get off my butt and fix my network cards driver issue.
 
2012-03-05 01:33:49 PM  

SuperChuck: AmazinTim: As a console gamer who doesn't want to spend $1,000+ on a gaming PC then another few hundred a year upgrading it, this is highly relevant to my interests.

Yeah that doesn't happen anymore. Mine ran about $600 a couple years ago and I haven't put a dollar into it since. It's nowhere near top of the line but there isn't anything it can't play.


I think I'm done with consoles now after MS put out a round of 360s that died after 2 years with a 2 year warranty, then charged you half of what you paid for the console to trade yours in for someone else's refurbished xbox. I'd just rather not have proprietary hardware when I could have a machine where competing third parties make hardware I can swap out myself. I still like controllers though, sorry.
 
2012-03-05 01:34:23 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Fine, the first-gen xbox. You know the one with the *custom* P3? Happy now?


Yes.

I think if Valve does this it will be x86 based and probably run an OS based off win7 or 8 so that developers don't have to port all the code to a new processor/GPU architecture. That way it makes it easy for users to just download the games to it and they're off and running. Think of it as a Gabe Newell blessed Home Theater PC.
 
2012-03-05 01:40:55 PM  
Valve can't even bring us Half-Life 3 or even Episode 3. I'm not holding my breath.
 
2012-03-05 01:41:00 PM  
Just 2 months ago I took an old box replaced the mobo & cpu with an AMD x4 3.0, installed 8gb of ram, replaced a crashed HD with a 1.5tb, added a new Radeon HD 6670 graphics card, and upgraded the power supply to 650 watts for around $425. The most expensive piece was the mobo/cpu combo @ $150. It's not bleeding edge by any means, but it's a quite capable machine.
 
2012-03-05 01:43:04 PM  
media.bestofmicro.com
Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?
 
2012-03-05 01:43:58 PM  
It's a valve blessed pc set top box. Neat idea, but I don't think it will be too huge. The problem is, PC games, and PC hardware makers, love being able to put out new stuff each year to get better performance.

If PC development was based on a standard baseline, then you'll end up with games that don't take advantage of more recent hardware. We already see that with all the console ports these days, this would make that even worse.
 
2012-03-05 01:51:14 PM  
Sounds like they are just going to make a crappy PC that looks like a console?
 
2012-03-05 01:59:57 PM  
I'm betting on an OnLive + Steam PC thing.
 
2012-03-05 02:03:23 PM  
I already have a Steam console. It's called a computer. Why not just sell Steam branded mini computers?
 
2012-03-05 02:07:12 PM  
This is much more a pc than the Xbox is a pc. There is a point to a gamer buying a 360 as it is a specific architecture and games must be qualified fo run on it. It's also designed around the Xbox live component.

If this allows keyboard and mouse then what is the point of buying it over a pc? Is it going to run some native OS version of steam?

As a pc gamer I don't actually see the point in this machine. However I wish them all the best. If anyone could pull it off it would be valve.
 
2012-03-05 02:07:27 PM  

Joafu: While I was interested in the idea, after reading, it sounds just like a computer. They should spend more time on creating a light OS for their 'console' then putting together hardware specs. If they could make something like a Steam Splash situation that would be just for games, I would put that in my living room if the price was right.

It be even better if they made a stand alone disc-based release for it to put on our own custom boxes. I'd imagine they'd want to partner with nvidia so that only those GPUs work, or Intel for their CPUs that's fine, I'd still go for it.


This. You have expressed my sentiments exactly.
 
2012-03-05 02:14:43 PM  
Looks like a novelty prop from the Ratman hideouts in Portal.
 
2012-03-05 02:16:38 PM  

SuperChuck: AmazinTim: As a console gamer who doesn't want to spend $1,000+ on a gaming PC then another few hundred a year upgrading it, this is highly relevant to my interests.

Yeah that doesn't happen anymore. Mine ran about $600 a couple years ago and I haven't put a dollar into it since. It's nowhere near top of the line but there isn't anything it can't play.


When I decided I needed a new computer, I went to Fry's and literally bought the most expensive desktop in the store.

It was only $1,000. For the top of the line model in the entire (huge) store.

The days of paying $2,000 for a bottom of the line computer have long since passed.
 
2012-03-05 02:17:48 PM  

enforcerpsu: As a pc gamer I don't actually see the point in this machine. However I wish them all the best. If anyone could pull it off it would be valve.


Valve will sell the things for a cheaply as they can to drive software sales; they might get adopted by console gamers or folk who aren't capable of building their own PC / think that a $99999 alienware pos is the only option for PC gaming.

The nice thing though, would be the common hardware baseline. If Valve gets enough of these things out there, developers will start targeting them, which means we might eventually get to a "if you meet or exceed these specs, you can play all Valve games." My biggest gripe with Steam (well, not Steam itself, but the side-effects), is every game coming with its own version of .NET or some other odd dependencies. Yeah, it's expected for PC software, but uniformity would be pretty nice. The whole "insert/download game and play it without any trouble*," is supposed to be the strongest aspect of console/mobile gaming these days.

/*Oh I'm sorry, download this patch first
//And this PSN update
///Just kidding, PSN is down
 
2012-03-05 02:19:28 PM  

Wayne 985: Valve can't even bring us Half-Life 3 or even Episode 3. I'm not holding my breath.


Who says they were even working on either? They seem to have been distracted with Left 4 Dead 1 & 2, Portal 1 & 2, Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, and CS:GO.

Once Dota 2 and CS:GO are released, I'm sure Half Life 3/HL2Ep3 will be next.
 
2012-03-05 02:24:34 PM  

ProfessorOhki: enforcerpsu: As a pc gamer I don't actually see the point in this machine. However I wish them all the best. If anyone could pull it off it would be valve.

Valve will sell the things for a cheaply as they can to drive software sales; they might get adopted by console gamers or folk who aren't capable of building their own PC / think that a $99999 alienware pos is the only option for PC gaming.

The nice thing though, would be the common hardware baseline. If Valve gets enough of these things out there, developers will start targeting them, which means we might eventually get to a "if you meet or exceed these specs, you can play all Valve games." My biggest gripe with Steam (well, not Steam itself, but the side-effects), is every game coming with its own version of .NET or some other odd dependencies. Yeah, it's expected for PC software, but uniformity would be pretty nice. The whole "insert/download game and play it without any trouble*," is supposed to be the strongest aspect of console/mobile gaming these days.

/*Oh I'm sorry, download this patch first
//And this PSN update
///Just kidding, PSN is down


The reason for that, of course, is that most games for sale on Steam aren't really built for Steam from the ground up, so Valve has to keep whatever extra crap the publisher wants attached to them.
 
2012-03-05 02:27:44 PM  

Geotpf: Wayne 985: Valve can't even bring us Half-Life 3 or even Episode 3. I'm not holding my breath.

Who says they were even working on either? They seem to have been distracted with Left 4 Dead 1 & 2, Portal 1 & 2, Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, and CS:GO.

Once Dota 2 and CS:GO are released, I'm sure Half Life 3/HL2Ep3 will be next.


CS:GO is being handled by a 3rd party developer, DOTA2 they acquired the developer, TF2 has a dedicated team because it's a cash farm now, etc.

And they haven't said they were working on either because they don't discuss their games, but it was stated that many years ago that quick turnaround episodic single player content would be the target for HL and that Ep 3 would be the end of the arc. Of course, Newell has since changed his mind on episodic single player content and has stated that social gaming is the new tech. Basically, based of Newell's responses on the subject in recent years, I'm sure it's sitting around somewhere in some sort of dev state, but abandoned not because of resources but instead because of Newell's vision for the future.
 
2012-03-05 02:28:34 PM  

dmars: SuperChuck: AmazinTim: As a console gamer who doesn't want to spend $1,000+ on a gaming PC then another few hundred a year upgrading it, this is highly relevant to my interests.

Yeah that doesn't happen anymore. Mine ran about $600 a couple years ago and I haven't put a dollar into it since. It's nowhere near top of the line but there isn't anything it can't play.

This, especially if you already have the tower, keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc it can be pretty cheap to build a system that can last 2-4 years. Though I usually only last two years till I want to build a new system because it is so damn fun and exciting buying computer parts.


There's a reason i only go to Microcenter once a year. if I go more often, i wind up building another computer just because it's so much fun.
 
2012-03-05 02:28:46 PM  

Geotpf: Wayne 985: Valve can't even bring us Half-Life 3 or even Episode 3. I'm not holding my breath.

Who says they were even working on either? They seem to have been distracted with Left 4 Dead 1 & 2, Portal 1 & 2, Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, and CS:GO.

Once Dota 2 and CS:GO are released, I'm sure Half Life 3/HL2Ep3 will be next.


If they are not working on it, they have a cruel sense of humor
 
2012-03-05 02:29:21 PM  

moistD: Geotpf: Wayne 985: Valve can't even bring us Half-Life 3 or even Episode 3. I'm not holding my breath.

Who says they were even working on either? They seem to have been distracted with Left 4 Dead 1 & 2, Portal 1 & 2, Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, and CS:GO.

Once Dota 2 and CS:GO are released, I'm sure Half Life 3/HL2Ep3 will be next.

If they are not working on it, they have a cruel sense of humor


forgot to link article
 
2012-03-05 02:36:39 PM  
While I'll never buy one, I appreciate any initiative that puts more PCs into the gaming market and takes back some of the userbase that's been lost to the void of the consoles. A nice middle ground between the master PC gamer race and the muggles, puggles perhaps.
 
2012-03-05 02:45:41 PM  

enforcerpsu: As a pc gamer I don't actually see the point in this machine. However I wish them all the best. If anyone could pull it off it would be valve.


I think the idea is that the typical criticisms of PC gaming have long been obsolete for people with some basic competencies and a willingness to learn, but they are still real for the "the big thing is the hard drive right?" keyboard-pecking types.

The main thing is that Dell or whoever will sell them a 'gaming machine' with a $300 CPU and a sub-$100 video card for a hefty sum, and the performance they get for that money is disappointing and short-lived. Those who get help with buying/building do better but can still run into software issues or just generally muck up the computer as novice users tend to do.

So I think this idea could be very fruitful for PC gaming. Put together some hardware that is balanced for gaming and offers good price/performance ratio, and provide some support in terms of easy or automatic driver upates and software. Upgradability would be a bonus and also introduce new people to this benefit of the PC platform.

I think the tricky part will be how much to 'open up' the OS. Let them have a full-out windows machine and people will muck it up, but then people will also rightfully expect to be able to do most PC tasks on these things. If they are clever maybe they can come up with some sort of security policy or even sand-boxing that will let users do almost whatever they want without screwing up the machine.
 
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