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(New York Daily News)   Infant dies of herpes after circumcision. You'll never believe how he caught it. No, really   (nydailynews.com) divider line 848
    More: Sick, Maimonides Hospital, Rockland County, inherent risk  
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49144 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2012 at 6:26 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-03 08:08:48 PM  
I want to vomit.
 
2012-03-03 08:12:26 PM  
The fark?!
 
2012-03-03 08:15:48 PM  
Betting that this thread goes redder than an infected glans.

3...2...1...
 
2012-03-03 08:19:26 PM  
The most unkindest cut of all.
 
2012-03-03 08:20:24 PM  
That sucks
 
2012-03-03 08:23:33 PM  
funnyads.biz

An easily preventable tragedy.
 
2012-03-03 08:26:42 PM  
eu3.memecdn.com

/Obligatory
 
2012-03-03 08:27:19 PM  
o_O
 
2012-03-03 08:33:49 PM  
"In newborn babies (within the first month of life), HSV infection, known as neonatal herpes, can potentially be life threatening, and symptoms almost always accompany infection. The virus is able to enter the brain and spinal fluid and can cause seizures and even death."
 
2012-03-03 08:35:27 PM  

Amos Quito: "In newborn babies (within the first month of life), HSV infection, known as neonatal herpes, can potentially be life threatening, and symptoms almost always accompany infection. The virus is able to enter the brain and spinal fluid and can cause seizures and even death."


Now with a link (new window)
 
2012-03-03 08:36:12 PM  
That Rabbi needs to be shot.
 
2012-03-03 08:55:58 PM  
Under the practice, the rabbi or mohel removes blood from the wound with his mouth - a practice city health officials have criticized, saying it carried "inherent risks" for babies.

:O
 
2012-03-03 09:12:34 PM  
All I can say it it amazes me the jews were the ones to come up with this and not the catholics.
 
2012-03-03 09:18:28 PM  
Well that's not kosher.
 
2012-03-03 09:31:04 PM  
In other news, if you want to suck on infant's dicks, you just have to be a rabbi and circumcise them.
 
2012-03-03 09:39:02 PM  

You Cant Explain That: All I can say it it amazes me the jews were the ones to come up with this and not the catholics.



Judyism is older that Catholycism, and circumcision is older still.


/Jews get infant Herp-a-derp
//Catholics get hang nails
 
2012-03-03 10:02:20 PM  
That mohel was doing it wrong: The stated purpose of metziza tradition is to protect the child's health.
Mohels still perform the suction to keep to the Talmudic tradition, but not with direct oral contact rather via a sterile tube that has one way suction.

As for those who object to circumcision as a barbaric custom, Tziporah agrees.
It's our religion and our covenant.
 
2012-03-03 10:24:03 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: That mohel was doing it wrong: The stated purpose of metziza tradition is to protect the child's health.
Mohels still perform the suction to keep to the Talmudic tradition, but not with direct oral contact rather via a sterile tube that has one way suction.

As for those who object to circumcision as a barbaric custom, Tziporah agrees.
It's our religion and our covenant.



My position? If y'all want to hack away at your sons' img.fark.com for the sake of your silly religious superstitions, go for it.

Godspeed, good luck, and all that.

But PLEASE, don't try to justify your cruel barbaric bloodletting rites by insisting that it's healthier, more hygienic,or whatever, and don't try to get the gullible goyim to follow your example.


/Castration is the new circumcision
//Trendy
 
2012-03-03 10:36:55 PM  
Religion.
 
2012-03-03 11:08:04 PM  

GAT_00: In other news, if you want to suck on infant's dicks, you just have to be a rabbi and circumcise them.


I wonder if he sucks it, or just gently laps it up. Because I don't want to know either way.
 
2012-03-04 12:16:27 AM  
There are no words. Just vomit.
 
2012-03-04 12:37:54 AM  
wait...don't tell me subby, I know this answer..it's on the tip of my tongue.
 
2012-03-04 12:45:12 AM  

You Cant Explain That: All I can say it it amazes me the jews were the ones to come up with this and not the catholics.


lol

do you know what would solve these problems? banning religion

/sigh - delusion is such a wonderful thing
 
2012-03-04 12:48:56 AM  
So much for the "it's more hygienic" thing.
 
2012-03-04 12:50:18 AM  
Why can't we have laws against rabbis using their mouths on a newborn's freshly circumcised penis?

Oh yeah, it'll open another can of worms like making Catholic hospitals provide contraception coverage in their employee insurance policies.

/I'm really tired of religious organizations dictating health care for women and children.
//Wish they'd move up to the 21st Century instead of sticking with the ancient traditions on procreation, women's rights, infectious diseases.
 
2012-03-04 12:52:14 AM  
i253.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-04 12:56:42 AM  
newborns.stanford.edu
Sterilize it, damn it!

/not what the Mohels use...
 
2012-03-04 12:57:35 AM  
........wat...........da................f*****ck.........
 
2012-03-04 12:59:45 AM  
Dammit, Subby...you were right.

/That's wrong on more levels than I want to contemplate.
 
2012-03-04 01:03:16 AM  

AirForceVet: Oh yeah, it'll open another can of worms


a.imageshack.us
 
2012-03-04 01:20:14 AM  
Call me an idealist, but people really shouldn't be sucking on an infant's junk for any reason.
 
2012-03-04 01:38:40 AM  

TsarTom: Call me an idealist, but people really shouldn't be sucking on an infant's junk for any reason.


BUT RELIGION!!!!!!

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm can I found religion where all drugs are legal, prostitution, and gambling is required.
 
2012-03-04 01:41:25 AM  
Religion is a mental illness. Circumcision is mutilation. Put 'em both together, and this is what happens.
 
2012-03-04 01:58:27 AM  
God is really obsessed with wangs.
 
2012-03-04 01:58:28 AM  
Under the practice, the rabbi or mohel removes blood from the wound with his mouth - a practice city health officials have criticized, saying it carried "inherent risks" for babies.

Religion is awesome!!

Hard to believe people stopped sacrificing animals but still put up with this shiat.
 
2012-03-04 02:01:58 AM  
In 2004, three infants circumcised by Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer were determined to have contracted herpes, city officials said.

If a Rabbi's going to go sucking off infants, shouldn't he AT LEAST be tested for STDs?
 
2012-03-04 02:23:11 AM  
Nope nope nope.

/Nope.
 
2012-03-04 03:04:34 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: In 2004, three infants circumcised by Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer were determined to have contracted herpes, city officials said.

If a Rabbi's going to go sucking off infants, shouldn't he AT LEAST be tested for STDs?


If only he believed in Jesus, everything would have been fine.
 
2012-03-04 03:39:51 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Lionel Mandrake: In 2004, three infants circumcised by Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer were determined to have contracted herpes, city officials said.

If a Rabbi's going to go sucking off infants, shouldn't he AT LEAST be tested for STDs?

If only he believed in Jesus, everything would have been fine.


I don't think Christians suck infant cock, but then again, I'm not a Christian.
 
2012-03-04 03:59:28 AM  
In other news, Jerry Sandusky has converted to Judaism.
 
2012-03-04 04:02:45 AM  
Does the Rabbi spit or swallow?
 
2012-03-04 04:13:24 AM  
JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST!
 
2012-03-04 04:54:52 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: I don't think Christians suck infant cock, but then again, I'm not a Christian.


Its only the Catholics who do it. And depending on the denomination of the Christian you ask, Catholics may or may not be considered Christian.
 
2012-03-04 06:28:33 AM  
Atheism is a Religion.
 
2012-03-04 06:32:10 AM  

coco ebert: Under the practice, the rabbi or mohel removes blood from the wound with his mouth - a practice city health officials have criticized, saying it carried "inherent risks" for babies.

:O


which holy book says that it's fine to lick the blood off of someone else body?
 
2012-03-04 06:33:19 AM  
Guy used same instrument to circumcise a guy with herpes beforehand?

*reads article*

Ooookay. Baby cocksucking herpes. Kosher...?
 
2012-03-04 06:34:28 AM  

ShawnDoc: Lionel Mandrake: I don't think Christians suck infant cock, but then again, I'm not a Christian.

Its only the Catholics who do it. And depending on the denomination of the Christian you ask, Catholics may or may not be considered Christian.


Why wouldn't Catholics be Christians? Aren't they the original ones and all the rest are splinter groups off of them.
 
2012-03-04 06:34:57 AM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


*facepalm*

Quit trying to change the topic with your nonsense, troll.
 
HBK
2012-03-04 06:35:25 AM  
I always told my friends in college- never get head from a girl with a cold sore.

/never thought I'd have to worry about rabbis.
 
2012-03-04 06:36:05 AM  
What the... I... who the fark... no. No. No farking words I've got available to adequately explain my curious mixture of bafflement and scorn. Let me know when they build the first colony ship. I want off this damned rock.
 
HBK
2012-03-04 06:37:30 AM  

EvilEgg: ShawnDoc: Lionel Mandrake: I don't think Christians suck infant cock, but then again, I'm not a Christian.

Its only the Catholics who do it. And depending on the denomination of the Christian you ask, Catholics may or may not be considered Christian.

Why wouldn't Catholics be Christians? Aren't they the original ones and all the rest are splinter groups off of them.


Yes. Catholics are the original Christians. If not for Catholics there would be no Lutherans, Baptists, et al. In fact, the Methodists still say "I believe in the Catholic Church" or some variance in their prayers.
 
2012-03-04 06:37:43 AM  
Ed Finnerty: People, and the Gods is they invent are really obsessed with wangs.

FTFY
 
2012-03-04 06:40:51 AM  
Problem is they used twitchy the mohel.

michaeljlewis.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-03-04 06:41:44 AM  
I'm surprised so many people didn't know about this practice.
 
2012-03-04 06:42:37 AM  
YAY we get to bash religion!

/could be worse
 
2012-03-04 06:44:58 AM  
...Words cannot describe....the amount of hatred I have right now. I just can't love and tolerate this.

/I've seen neonatal herpes encephalitis. Intractable Seizures. Horrid way to die.
 
2012-03-04 06:45:32 AM  

NicoFinn: I'm surprised so many people didn't know about this practice.


That's right. Everyone should know by now just how batshiat crazy religion makes people.
 
2012-03-04 06:45:51 AM  
DRTFT or TFA, guessing it's when the dude sucked the blood off the baby's dick...reading TFA now...

Yup. Crazy farkers. religion needs to die.
 
2012-03-04 06:46:45 AM  
letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

According to the US Census, so is Jedi and Sith. Why won't you accept that Obi Wan Kenobi died for your sins, letrole?
 
2012-03-04 06:47:14 AM  

BurnShrike: NicoFinn: I'm surprised so many people didn't know about this practice.

That's right. Everyone should know by now just how batshiat crazy religion makes people.


Not exactly the angle I meant, but now that you put it that way. Required reading (new window)?
 
2012-03-04 06:48:08 AM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


Le Troll is your surname.
 
2012-03-04 06:50:07 AM  

HBK: Yes. Catholics are the original Christians. If not for Catholics there would be no Lutherans, Baptists, et al. In fact, the Methodists still say "I believe in the Catholic Church" or some variance in their prayers.


Whereas Christians will say they believe in Jesus.

Catholics worship many things -- Mary, Saints, Relics, the Church itself. If you pray to Mary, you worship her. If you pray to saints, you worship them. If you have faith in some some bone fragment or burial shroud, you worship it.
 
2012-03-04 06:51:40 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: That mohel was doing it wrong: The stated purpose of metziza tradition is to protect the child's health.
Mohels still perform the suction to keep to the Talmudic tradition, but not with direct oral contact rather via a sterile tube that has one way suction.

As for those who object to circumcision as a barbaric custom, Tziporah agrees.
It's our religion and our covenant.


Just like you cannot have illegal stipulations in a contract, you cannot have illegal rules in your religion. Last time I checked, maiming was illegal.
 
2012-03-04 06:51:57 AM  
No, I really couldn't have guessed, subby.
 
2012-03-04 06:52:20 AM  

BronyMedic: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

According to the US Census, so is Jedi and Sith. Why won't you accept that Obi Wan Kenobi died for your sins, letrole?


I don't want to. I have free will. I'm sure you think have some sort of point there.
 
2012-03-04 06:53:54 AM  

NicoFinn: I'm surprised so many people didn't know about this practice.


Yeah, same. I saw the headline and knew exactly what it was talking about. That's farked, man.

If we're going to turn this into a circumcision thread, I'd just like to point out that I don't care if people do it, but the guys involved should be able to choose whether to do it or not later in life, rather than having it forced upon them before they even know their name.

If it's a religious thread, I'll just say that many things would be a lot simpler if there was no religion. Life would probably be quite a bit nicer, too.

/think I covered all the bases
//this guy should have never gotten on the diamond
 
2012-03-04 06:55:17 AM  

buckler: DRTFT or TFA, guessing it's when the dude sucked the blood off the baby's dick...reading TFA now...

Yup. Crazy farkers. religion needs to die.


No sh*t.
I've attended a bris but never saw the sucking of blood. This is just insane, but hey, I'm a shiksa and don't really understand.
 
2012-03-04 06:56:37 AM  

NicoFinn: I'm surprised so many people didn't know about this practice.


It's not like this is the first time this procedure has been discussed on Fark. It's how I was able to accurately guess the question posed by the headline.

Because (judeo-christian false) god (that doesn't exist) knows I would not have heard about such a practice otherwise.

/born catholic, got out of that game a long time ago
 
2012-03-04 07:03:45 AM  
There must be some kind of solution for this jewish problem.
/wait that doesn't sound right.
 
2012-03-04 07:03:59 AM  
letrole: I don't want to. I have free will. I'm sure you think have some sort of point there.

No, you have the illusion of free will, while in reality being guided by your anger and vitriol. Fear and anger lead to the dark side. Lead to suffering and destruction. Let go of your hatred, letrole, and come back to the Light. Search your feelings, you know it to be true. Allow the force to guide your life.
 
2012-03-04 07:04:29 AM  
This reminds me.... I need to get re-circumcised.
I think it grew back.
 
2012-03-04 07:04:55 AM  
Tatsuma.

What's this all about?

Come give us the lowdown. Please?
 
2012-03-04 07:06:03 AM  
God intelligently designed you in his image. Except that bit of skin on your penis. He got distracted making women's breasts and forgot to finish that part. If you don't hack it off your babies you're reminding God of his bad memory and he'll hate you forever.
 
2012-03-04 07:07:43 AM  
This was done back then for medical reason, and those reasons are still valid today. However, in the vast vast vast majority of cases, they are performed through sterile tubes, and not directly with the mouth, in order to prevent situations like this.

This is of course an incredible tragedy, but far from the norm nowadays, as brit milah by a competent mohel is about as safe as it gets, bar the very rare and exceptional tragedy such as this
 
2012-03-04 07:07:48 AM  

cryinoutloud: :
I wonder if he sucks it, or just gently laps it up. Because I don't want to know either way.


Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.
 
2012-03-04 07:11:27 AM  
You know, I when I hear about a weird new profession, I imagine introducing myself to someone at a party:

Them: "So, Honest Bender, what do you do for a living?"
Me: "I suck on bleeding infant dick."

No thank you. I'd rather do damn near anything else.
 
2012-03-04 07:11:36 AM  
Tatsuma: This is of course an incredible tragedy, but far from the norm nowadays, as brit milah by a competent mohel is about as safe as it gets, bar the very rare and exceptional tragedy such as this

Yeah, you know. Perfectly safe. Except the horrendous pain the infant experiences when being circumcised without even local anesthetic, scarring, infection, and loss of function that can occur.

You know, since we're on that note, why are Mohels performing a surgical procedure which is done when medically indicated in a surgical suite under general anesthetic, again?

/not against circumcision in general, just against someone without the initials "M.D." behind their name performing it.
//It's not the biblical age, Tats. Why must infants suffer?
 
2012-03-04 07:12:26 AM  

Tatsuma: This was done back then for medical reason, and those reasons are still valid today. However, in the vast vast vast majority of cases, they are performed through sterile tubes, and not directly with the mouth, in order to prevent situations like this.

This is of course an incredible tragedy, but far from the norm nowadays, as brit milah by a competent mohel is about as safe as it gets, bar the very rare and exceptional tragedy such as this


That's also assuming you don't think "mutilating an unwilling infant" is a tragedy.
 
2012-03-04 07:13:02 AM  

Tatsuma: This was done back then for medical reason, and those reasons are still valid today. However, in the vast vast vast majority of cases, they are performed through sterile tubes, and not directly with the mouth, in order to prevent situations like this.

This is of course an incredible tragedy, but far from the norm nowadays, as brit milah by a competent mohel is about as safe as it gets, bar the very rare and exceptional tragedy such as this


Huh. Interestingish. Is there any system in place to ensure that rabbis performing this procedure are disease-free?
 
2012-03-04 07:13:40 AM  
Fair_Poopsmith: Huh. Interestingish. Is there any system in place to ensure that rabbis performing this procedure are disease-free?

I don't even think that Rabbis that do it have to be physicians.
 
2012-03-04 07:14:43 AM  
God made the world and it was good, except the part that would require man to intervene into the physical workings of the human body in order to properly operate in this God created world.

/please put your penance in the offering plate
//please continue to muck up the Eden of Earth with all your man-made industrially polluting rationalities.
 
2012-03-04 07:16:35 AM  

Yogimus: YAY we get to bash religion!

/could be worse


I'm going to set up a temple to Moloch and sacrifice children.

Don't criticize me or you're "bashing religion!!"
 
2012-03-04 07:17:44 AM  
Soooooo, how many more babies are the authorities going to let this guy infect or kill? Cause, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything about charges being brought against him.

By the way, subby, you win, because never in a million years would I have believed it.
 
2012-03-04 07:17:48 AM  

BronyMedic: You know, since we're on that note, why are Mohels performing a surgical procedure which is done when medically indicated in a surgical suite under general anesthetic, again?


Do you realize that many doctors are trained by professional mohelim? Also that mohelim are considered to be much better than doctors at this particular surgery most of the time?

/not against circumcision in general, just against someone without the initials "M.D." behind their name performing it.This article is a fairly good explanation as to why

BronyMedic: Yeah, you know. Perfectly safe. Except the horrendous pain the infant experiences when being circumcised without even local anesthetic, scarring, infection, and loss of function that can occur.


Except that it's not "horrendously" painful. They stop crying almost immediately. In the last years, there's barely a month where I don't go to one circumcision. Often, more than once. The baby cries for a few seconds, and it's over. Scarring and infection are quite rare, and I'm not going to go into that 'loss of function' discussion.
 
2012-03-04 07:18:20 AM  
i was circumcised in that hospital.
 
2012-03-04 07:19:10 AM  
hey, circumcision is a good look.. regardless of religion.

but keep your mouth of my kids bleeding dick, weirdo
 
2012-03-04 07:19:54 AM  
This story is hard to swallow.

/circumcision is unnecessary. Done for religion / tradition.

//chose not to do it to my babby. I couldnt imagine unnecessarily making him cry and suffer (vs, say, immunizations). Parents not amused.
 
2012-03-04 07:20:34 AM  
letrole: I don't want to. I have free will. I'm sure you think have some sort of point there.

BronyMedic: No, you have the illusion of free will, while in reality being guided by your anger and vitriol. Fear and anger lead to the dark side. Lead to suffering and destruction. Let go of your hatred, letrole, and come back to the Light. Search your feelings, you know it to be true. Allow the force to guide your life.

A big problem is that your religion is composed only of converts. Since members can't get laid, they can't have children to bring up in the faith.
 
2012-03-04 07:20:40 AM  

Fair_Poopsmith: Huh. Interestingish. Is there any system in place to ensure that rabbis performing this procedure are disease-free?


Generally there is, and this is absolutely something that you can inquire, and most mohelim gets regular shots against diseases such as hepatitis and so on. They can provide medical records showing that as well if you ask.

A mohel with herpes would be someone who just caught it recently and did not realize it yet, it would have to be invisible otherwise they certainly would be disqualified as a mohel the second it showed. Certainly with the mouth, and even with the tube. They themselves will stop in general.

There are very very very few communities that still use the mouth as the generally used method, the vast vast majority use the tube method.
 
2012-03-04 07:21:00 AM  

Tatsuma: This was done back then for medical reason, and those reasons are still valid today.


What reason, and why is it still valid?
 
2012-03-04 07:21:15 AM  

BronyMedic: Fair_Poopsmith: Huh. Interestingish. Is there any system in place to ensure that rabbis performing this procedure are disease-free?

I don't even think that Rabbis that do it have to be physicians.


No, just hungry.
 
2012-03-04 07:21:49 AM  
Natural selection. Parents unwilling to join the modern world are the cause. If they didn't ask for this kind of thing the penis sucking rabbi would have to earn money a different way. Can't really blame him. Probably didnt even know he had the herp - asymptomatic carrier.

Incorporate new knowledge or fail to pass on genes.
 
2012-03-04 07:23:17 AM  
For those who are interested into an in-depth article about this, the Orthodox Union produced a good one

Also you will notice this:

The New York State Department of Health recently formulated the following solution to the metzizah b'peh controversy. The agreed-upon solution is to permit a subsequent metzitzah after situation 5 takes place only if the mohel takes preventive anti-herpes medication on the day of the brit milah and for at least three days before it.

I will require this from the mohel of my children. This, and the tube.
 
2012-03-04 07:23:54 AM  
I... I... it... wh... GAH! So not right. It's a religion thing, I get that, but we do have things like gauze, and sterilization, and those little vacuums that they use to suck up blood.
 
2012-03-04 07:24:03 AM  

buckler: What reason, and why is it still valid?


Just read the articles I posted in my last post.
 
2012-03-04 07:24:10 AM  

Tatsuma: I'm not going to go into that 'loss of function' discussion.


How about the "maiming a child who is unable to consent" discussion?

With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.
 
2012-03-04 07:25:02 AM  

BurnShrike: How about the "maiming a child who is unable to consent" discussion?


Are you against piercing ears of children as well?
 
2012-03-04 07:25:26 AM  

Tatsuma: For those who are interested into an in-depth article about this, the Orthodox Union produced a good one

Also you will notice this:

The New York State Department of Health recently formulated the following solution to the metzizah b'peh controversy. The agreed-upon solution is to permit a subsequent metzitzah after situation 5 takes place only if the mohel takes preventive anti-herpes medication on the day of the brit milah and for at least three days before it.

I will require this from the mohel of my children. This, and the tube.


And why not just dispense with the dick-sucking, tube or not, and smear some antibiotic gel on the wound if the circumcision is deemed necessary?
 
2012-03-04 07:25:52 AM  

Tatsuma: BurnShrike: How about the "maiming a child who is unable to consent" discussion?

Are you against piercing ears of children as well?


Piercing ears doesn't permanently remove a functional part of their body.
 
2012-03-04 07:26:04 AM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


you don't even try anymore
 
2012-03-04 07:28:34 AM  
a blow job ending in death is still a blow job.

/you'd appreciate this if you had my girlfriend.
 
2012-03-04 07:28:36 AM  

Passive Aggressive Larry: /born catholic


This is not possible. Free your mind.
 
2012-03-04 07:28:53 AM  
 
2012-03-04 07:29:22 AM  

JudgeMuttonChops: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

you don't even try anymore


I'm going to cut up my son's dick in the name of Darwin.
 
2012-03-04 07:29:31 AM  
i feel bad saying this but if you want some guy to suck your infants penis in order to worship a zombie well then....

if a satanic priest or whatever had performed the exact same actions in their ceremony they would probably be awaiting sexual assault/manslaughterish type charges
 
2012-03-04 07:30:02 AM  

Amos Quito: My position? If y'all want to hack away at your sons' img.fark.com for the sake of your silly religious superstitions, go for it.


I disagree. If adult males of sound mind and legal capacity of their own bodies wish to consent to the rules of their religion, then circumcision, like any body modification, shall be readily available. I oppose infant circumcision on the same grounds that I oppose ear piercing of extremely young girls. It's a stupid, cruel, involuntary practice. Stop harming your children for the sake of your imagined ideal.
 
2012-03-04 07:30:08 AM  

buckler: And why not just dispense with the dick-sucking, tube or not, and smear some antibiotic gel on the wound if the circumcision is deemed necessary?


I'm a religious fundamentalist, hear me roar

BurnShrike: Piercing ears doesn't permanently remove a functional part of their body.


Functionality implies necessity. This is not a necessary part of the body.
 
2012-03-04 07:31:14 AM  

eventhelosers: i feel bad saying this but if you want some guy to suck your infants penis in order to worship a zombie well then....


... we're not xians.
 
2012-03-04 07:31:33 AM  
furthermore, if your Rabbi has sores on his mouth, don't let him suck your child's dick.
 
2012-03-04 07:31:59 AM  

Hetfield: Here'shiatchens


I lol'd.
 
2012-03-04 07:32:05 AM  
"It's unclear who performed the circumcision"


I thought it was supposed to be an important rite of religious passage... and nobody is sure who performed it? Nope, they're lying to the police to protect the perpetrator who has already been moved to another parish-equivalent by the bishop-equivalent, a trick they picked up from the Catholics.

Who says you can't teach an old religion new tricks?
 
2012-03-04 07:32:41 AM  
Oy Vey! אױ װײ



/at least he'll go to Jewish heaven
//the baby not the Rabbi
 
2012-03-04 07:32:42 AM  
"Hey rabbi, try not to suck any dick on your way through the synagogue."

johnnycat.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-03-04 07:33:27 AM  
I'm honestly surprised this is news to anyone.
I'm not even Jewish and I've heard of Orthodox mohels doing this.

Still, it's incredibly sad that a baby lost his life over this.
 
2012-03-04 07:34:35 AM  

eventhelosers: i feel bad saying this but if you want some guy to suck your infants penis in order to worship a zombie well then....

if a satanic priest or whatever had performed the exact same actions in their ceremony they would probably be awaiting sexual assault/manslaughterish type charges


...and that's what I wonder about. There seems to be a hazy admixture of "religious freedom" and "child sexual abuse" that I can't quite untangle here.
 
2012-03-04 07:34:41 AM  
@HBK, "Methodists still say "I believe in the Catholic Church" or some variance in their prayers."

That would be "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church."
Note that "catholic" is lowercase. "catholic" means "all-embracing" or "universal". This is not to be confused with a statement of allegiance to the Roman Catholic Church or the Pope, who of course you disagree with on a bunch of doctrinal points if you're a Methodist or a Lutheran.

For those of you who were "raised by wolves" as my wife claims to have been, the context is the Nicene Creed, a statement of faith that came out of one of the Councils of Nicaea, a series of meetings of the International Jesus Fan Club that started in AD 325.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
 
2012-03-04 07:34:50 AM  

AndreMA: I thought it was supposed to be an important rite of religious passage... and nobody is sure who performed it?


You don't understand, there were so many different mouths present that day. Maybe they took turns.
 
2012-03-04 07:35:44 AM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


Oh, Holy Darwin! You are sooooo farking predictable, and soooooooo farking booooooooooooriiiiiiing.

There's plenty of really rather entertaining trolls on fark. You're just not one of them.
 
2012-03-04 07:37:22 AM  

uttertosh: There's plenty of really rather entertaining trolls on fark. You're just not one of them.


Yet you responded. You lose.
 
2012-03-04 07:37:42 AM  

Tatsuma: BurnShrike: Piercing ears doesn't permanently remove a functional part of their body.

Functionality implies necessity. This is not a necessary part of the body.


So now you're deciding for the child which parts of their body you deem necessary? And what exactly do you mean by "necessary"? Ear lobes are entirely unnecessary. Would you be okay with someone making the decision for you that you don't need them and to cut them off?
 
2012-03-04 07:38:01 AM  
Oral suction?! What. The. FARK?!?!
 
2012-03-04 07:38:17 AM  

AndreMA: the perpetrator who has already been moved to another parish-equivalent by the bishop-equivalent, a trick they picked up from the Catholics.


Yeah that's not how the Jewish world works, sorry.
 
2012-03-04 07:38:50 AM  

Mugato: "Hey rabbi, try not to suck any dick on your way through the synagogue."

[johnnycat.files.wordpress.com image 320x237]


Ha!
I wonder how they train for this task?
 
2012-03-04 07:39:14 AM  
Also I have to say, those of you who ascribe sexualized intentions to a medical procedure on a 8 days old toddler have big big problems and I wouldn't let you around my children without supervision.
 
2012-03-04 07:39:19 AM  
"the Jewish world".

I lol'd.
 
2012-03-04 07:39:22 AM  
encrypted-tbn3.google.com

"I could have been a kosher butcher like my brother. The money's good. There's a union,
with benefits. And, cows have no families. You make a mistake with a cow, you move on with your life..."
 
2012-03-04 07:39:50 AM  

Hetfield: Here'shiatchens face-raping a rabbi who thinks genital mutilation is a topic for humor


Great video. Thanks for posting it.
 
2012-03-04 07:40:05 AM  

BurnShrike: So now you're deciding for the child which parts of their body you deem necessary?


You're the one who said it was a 'functional' part of the body.

And my point is that no, this is not a 'functional' part of the body that's needed at all to have a 100% functioning body.
 
2012-03-04 07:40:09 AM  
i32.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-04 07:40:22 AM  

make me some tea: I want to vomit.

 
2012-03-04 07:40:48 AM  

Tatsuma: Also I have to say, those of you who ascribe sexualized intentions to a medical procedure on a 8 days old toddler have big big problems and I wouldn't let you around my children without supervision.


Some guy wants to put his mouth on a child's penis, but we're the perverts for thinking it's strange? You really have a twisted view of things.

Again I'll say: With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.
 
2012-03-04 07:41:33 AM  

BurnShrike: Great video. Thanks for posting it.


Glad you enjoyed it.
 
2012-03-04 07:44:27 AM  

Tatsuma: BurnShrike: Piercing ears doesn't permanently remove a functional part of their body.

Functionality implies necessity. This is not a necessary part of the body.


And this is not a necessary procedure as performed. If suction is needed, there are many fine machines that could do the job well in a sterile fashion that doesn't require the lips of a bearded hairy man.
 
2012-03-04 07:44:51 AM  

Tatsuma: BurnShrike: So now you're deciding for the child which parts of their body you deem necessary?

You're the one who said it was a 'functional' part of the body.

And my point is that no, this is not a 'functional' part of the body that's needed at all to have a 100% functioning body.


Citation need. Where's your evidence that it's not needed for a "100% functioning body". By that statement you'd be fine with cutting off people's noses. You could still breathe and smell things. Your body would be 100% functioning.

Or how about splashing acid in someone's face? Everything still functions; you're just a little disfigured. It's even done in the name of religion, because God wants it. So it should be fine, right?

Who the fark are you to inflict a permanent disfigurement onto an innocent child?

You truly have a warped sense of morality if you can come in here and try to defend your barbaric practices.
 
2012-03-04 07:44:58 AM  
You are correct, I didn't see that coming. I can only hope with my bad memory that this will fade fast.

Seriously, WTF!?

Why would anyone want someone's mouth on their infants dick? Seriously, WTF!?
 
2012-03-04 07:45:36 AM  

BurnShrike: Tatsuma: Also I have to say, those of you who ascribe sexualized intentions to a medical procedure on a 8 days old toddler have big big problems and I wouldn't let you around my children without supervision.

Some guy wants to put his mouth on a child's penis, but we're the perverts for thinking it's strange? You really have a twisted view of things.

Again I'll say: With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.


If thats the context you come up with, then yes.

Look, any procedure, even a noninvasive one will involve some degree of risk.
 
2012-03-04 07:45:40 AM  
People keep cutting them off, but mother nature just keeps popping boys out with a foreskin attached. Maybe, just maybe, she's trying to tell us something?

Oh, and this rabbi, and any other that sucks off a little kid, ought to be charged with molestation and put on the registered sex offenders' list. Religion be damned; there has to be a line drawn where people can't hide behind "freedom of religion", and this is an example of crossing that line. Frankly, the same should go for circumcision in general. Because of how difficult it is to surgically restore a foreskin, I think performing circumcision on a person incapable of consenting should be outlawed. It's not like the so-called sexual health benefits are going to be needed by a young child, anyway. If a kid reaches 16 or so, fully understanding the pain and consequences, and still wants to be circumcised, then so be it. I don't believe in the "well if they wait until they're older, it will be far more painful" bullcrap some people excuse infant circumcision with, either. Pain happens, and we all have to deal with some pretty severe pain in our lives.
 
2012-03-04 07:45:49 AM  

kemosabe: You are correct, I didn't see that coming. I can only hope with my bad memory that this will fade fast.

Seriously, WTF!?

Why would anyone want someone's mouth on their infants dick? Seriously, WTF!?


One word: religion.
 
2012-03-04 07:46:14 AM  

BurnShrike: Some guy wants to put his mouth on a child's penis, but we're the perverts for thinking it's strange? You really have a twisted view of things.


Again, the mere fact that you think he wants, has a desire to, shows just how your own mind is perverted in many ways.

This was established as a medical procedure (in times when oral herpes was not common) in order to make sure the life of a child was not needlessly endangered by the circumcision. Now, since today we have in fact other methods to do this, and there is an increased risk of infection, the vast majority of people perform metzitzah peh with a tube rather than their mouth

Again, I posted a very long and detailed article about this earlier.
 
2012-03-04 07:47:09 AM  

kemosabe: You are correct, I didn't see that coming. I can only hope with my bad memory that this will fade fast.

Seriously, WTF!?

Why would anyone want someone's mouth on their infants dick? Seriously, WTF!?


Really. The Catholics get in trouble when they do it. Not fair..
 
2012-03-04 07:47:43 AM  

LinaBo: I think performing circumcision on a person incapable of consenting should be outlawed.


It's already outlawed. It's expressly against the Geneva Convention of Human Rights. It's one of those things that's conveniently ignored though.
 
2012-03-04 07:47:48 AM  
y'all are f'n crazy...every single one of you
 
2012-03-04 07:48:20 AM  

buckler: And this is not a necessary procedure as performed. If suction is needed, there are many fine machines that could do the job well in a sterile fashion that doesn't require the lips of a bearded hairy man.


Agreed on both point. It is not a necessary procedure as performed, there can indeed be machines and tubes that can do a perfectly good job and requires no contact at all, and this is in fact how it is performed now in the vast vast majority of the Orthodox world.

I have been to possibly 60-70 of those over the years, easily, and I have never seen someone do it with the mouth. And I don't exactly hang out with the more lenient crowd either.
 
2012-03-04 07:50:08 AM  
I guessed correctly. What do I get?

Goyim here, with a head full of useless knowledge...
 
2012-03-04 07:50:25 AM  

LinaBo: People keep cutting them off, but mother nature just keeps popping boys out with a foreskin attached. Maybe, just maybe, she's trying to tell us something?

Oh, and this rabbi, and any other that sucks off a little kid, ought to be charged with molestation and put on the registered sex offenders' list. Religion be damned; there has to be a line drawn where people can't hide behind "freedom of religion", and this is an example of crossing that line. Frankly, the same should go for circumcision in general. Because of how difficult it is to surgically restore a foreskin, I think performing circumcision on a person incapable of consenting should be outlawed. It's not like the so-called sexual health benefits are going to be needed by a young child, anyway. If a kid reaches 16 or so, fully understanding the pain and consequences, and still wants to be circumcised, then so be it. I don't believe in the "well if they wait until they're older, it will be far more painful" bullcrap some people excuse infant circumcision with, either. Pain happens, and we all have to deal with some pretty severe pain in our lives.


Because you have a warped, oversexualized brain, other people should change their ways. Hmmmmmm

Because you think consent is necessary, you think a religious event done on the 8th day should be decided on by the person as an adult. Well, heres the thing. You will be impacted by which school your parents send you to, what they have you wear, what they name you, etc.
 
2012-03-04 07:50:32 AM  

BurnShrike: It's already outlawed. It's expressly against the Geneva Convention of Human Rights. It's one of those things that's conveniently ignored though.


now that's just ridiculous
 
2012-03-04 07:50:36 AM  
This just proves what I have been saying to my husband: because I love you, no beej.
 
2012-03-04 07:51:09 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: Because you have a warped, oversexualized brain, other people should change their ways. Hmmmmmm


Indeed.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but a lot of people in this thread are very very creepy.
 
2012-03-04 07:52:02 AM  

Tatsuma: BurnShrike: Some guy wants to put his mouth on a child's penis, but we're the perverts for thinking it's strange? You really have a twisted view of things.

Again, the mere fact that you think he wants, has a desire to, shows just how your own mind is perverted in many ways.

This was established as a medical procedure (in times when oral herpes was not common) in order to make sure the life of a child was not needlessly endangered by the circumcision. Now, since today we have in fact other methods to do this, and there is an increased risk of infection, the vast majority of people perform metzitzah peh with a tube rather than their mouth

Again, I posted a very long and detailed article about this earlier.


So God made him do it? If he didn't have the desire to do it, then the impetus to put his mouth on a child's penis must've come from somewhere else. Where did it come from?

Who's the pervert, the one who makes you put a child's penis in your mouth? or the guy who actually follows through and does it?
 
2012-03-04 07:52:26 AM  
Oh and one of those famous cases, from 2005 (yes they are rare enough that we can pinpoint specific cases and years), after autopsy and further tests, it was determined that the Rabbi was in fact perfectly healthy, and that the baby got the herpes from the mother.
 
2012-03-04 07:52:41 AM  

Tatsuma: Also I have to say, those of you who ascribe sexualized intentions to a medical procedure on a 8 days old toddler have big big problems and I wouldn't let you around my children without supervision.


There is no medical reason for an adult to place their mouth on the genitals of an infant. Perhaps there used to be, but as you yourself said, there are now devices that do this and that are perfectly religiously acceptable.

Therefore we have a man sucking on the dick of an infant for non-medical and non-religious reasons. How in *any* philosophy is this not an unacceptable perversion??
 
2012-03-04 07:53:09 AM  

Tatsuma: And my point is that no, this is not a 'functional' part of the body that's needed at all to have a 100% functioning body.


Circumcision decreases penile sensitivity, so yes, the foreskin is necessary for a person to have a "100% functional body."
 
2012-03-04 07:53:26 AM  

Tatsuma: BurnShrike: So now you're deciding for the child which parts of their body you deem necessary?

You're the one who said it was a 'functional' part of the body.

And my point is that no, this is not a 'functional' part of the body that's needed at all to have a 100% functioning body.


Neither is your appendix. Medically speaking, we don't go around cutting off body parts just because someone thinks its a good idea.

And the foreskin IS functional.
 
2012-03-04 07:53:39 AM  

Tatsuma: Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but a lot of people in this thread are very very creepy.


Forgive them. This is something that's very foreign to them and they can't imagine a context where a grown man would put a baby's penis in his mouth and have it not be sexual.
 
2012-03-04 07:54:25 AM  

BurnShrike: So God made him do it? If he didn't have the desire to do it, then the impetus to put his mouth on a child's penis must've come from somewhere else. Where did it come from?


I am not having this discussion anymore with you. I have both explained this, and linked to a thorough explanation. You clearly do not care discussing this, just bashing.

So bash away, I'm done.

Who's the pervert, the one who makes you put a child's penis in your mouth? or the guy who actually follows through and does it?

The one who sexualizes it.
 
2012-03-04 07:54:40 AM  
Some people will sure go far in trying to excuse taking a knife to a child's genitals.

Disgusting.
 
2012-03-04 07:55:11 AM  

Tatsuma: buckler: And this is not a necessary procedure as performed. If suction is needed, there are many fine machines that could do the job well in a sterile fashion that doesn't require the lips of a bearded hairy man.

Agreed on both point. It is not a necessary procedure as performed, there can indeed be machines and tubes that can do a perfectly good job and requires no contact at all, and this is in fact how it is performed now in the vast vast majority of the Orthodox world.

I have been to possibly 60-70 of those over the years, easily, and I have never seen someone do it with the mouth. And I don't exactly hang out with the more lenient crowd either.


Yokes on you. Hesus Crust fulfilled all your silly documents like a zillion years ago, so now everyone has a pony and drinks ice cream from the tap.

I don't agree with circumcision in general. I recognize that I can't change your mind on the matter. I don't think there is any reason for infant circumcision amongst the outsiders to your faith.
 
2012-03-04 07:55:17 AM  
At least the kid didn't die a virgin.
 
2012-03-04 07:55:48 AM  
Also, Tatsuma, you've been around here long enough to know how contentious circumcision threads are around here. Combine that with the anti-religion attitude that's rife on Fark/TF, and it's really no surprise how this thread's gone.
 
2012-03-04 07:56:28 AM  
Discussing the safety aspects of an immoral, brutal and barbaric procedure just serves to deflect from the immoral, brutal and barbaric nature of said procedure.

Don't do this.
 
2012-03-04 07:56:47 AM  

ryarger: Tatsuma: Also I have to say, those of you who ascribe sexualized intentions to a medical procedure on a 8 days old toddler have big big problems and I wouldn't let you around my children without supervision.

There is no medical reason for an adult to place their mouth on the genitals of an infant. Perhaps there used to be, but as you yourself said, there are now devices that do this and that are perfectly religiously acceptable.

Therefore we have a man sucking on the dick of an infant for non-medical and non-religious reasons. How in *any* philosophy is this not an unacceptable perversion??


You're probably talking about the circumcision clamps. They're not kosher.
 
2012-03-04 07:56:49 AM  

Tatsuma: I have been to possibly 60-70 of those over the years, easily


I can relate. When I was 18-early 20s I must have put a dozen strippers through college. We all have our things.
 
2012-03-04 07:57:32 AM  

ryarger: There is no medical reason for an adult to place their mouth on the genitals of an infant. Perhaps there used to be, but as you yourself said, there are now devices that do this and that are perfectly religiously acceptable.

Therefore we have a man sucking on the dick of an infant for non-medical and non-religious reasons. How in *any* philosophy is this not an unacceptable perversion??


There is a medical reason to do metzitzah peh, it's just that today it is considered dangerous due to new risks of infection, therefore the best way to do it is with a tube, or with a device that will pump the blood for you.

That does not change the fact that it's absolutely not an 'unacceptable perversion'.

shivashakti: Forgive them. This is something that's very foreign to them and they can't imagine a context where a grown man would put a baby's penis in his mouth and have it not be sexual.


I guess so.

Also every day I go to a mikveh, where there are at least a dozen naked men present as well. I'm guessing that they'd sexualize something like that as well.

It's quite impressive to see the shift from a purely puritan society where sex is not mentioned, to a society where the boundaries are now so far that almost everything is sexualized.
 
2012-03-04 07:57:49 AM  

Tatsuma: Functionality implies necessity. This is not a necessary part of the body.


There's a macabre humor involved in reading this excuse for amputating parts of childrens' bodies. How far shall we run with this? I'm betting we don't need external ears, either.
 
2012-03-04 07:58:50 AM  

shivashakti: Also, Tatsuma, you've been around here long enough to know how contentious circumcision threads are around here. Combine that with the anti-religion attitude that's rife on Fark/TF, and it's really no surprise how this thread's gone.


It's early the day, just wait. This thread has so much potential. Tatsuma knows what he is getting in to.
 
2012-03-04 07:58:51 AM  

BurnShrike: LinaBo: I think performing circumcision on a person incapable of consenting should be outlawed.

It's already outlawed. It's expressly against the Geneva Convention of Human Rights. It's one of those things that's conveniently ignored though.


Again, it's that hazy area between "religious freedom" and "right not to be mutilated while unable to consent". I get the whole "God's commandment to show you're on my team" thing, but it just seems like a really bizarre thing to command. I'm certainly no expert in Judaica, of course, but I can kind of grok having a self-sacrificial mark in a secret place that passersby won't notice, but foreskin-removal is a weird damned way to go about it. How about, say, a pair of slits if need be, or a brand on the taint or somesuch? I guess neither of those are too much weirder, though. I suppose trying to make religion make sense is a waste of time in any event.
 
2012-03-04 07:59:54 AM  

BurnShrike: Who's the pervert, the one who makes you put a child's penis in your mouth? or the guy who actually follows through and does it?


Was that Obi Wan's line? Did they change it for the special edition?
 
2012-03-04 08:00:03 AM  

casual disregard: . I don't think there is any reason for infant circumcision amongst the outsiders to your faith.


Agreed. It's a purely religious event, and is absolutely not necessary for anyone outside of Judaism (or Islam).

shivashakti: Also, Tatsuma, you've been around here long enough to know how contentious circumcision threads are around here. Combine that with the anti-religion attitude that's rife on Fark/TF, and it's really no surprise how this thread's gone.


Oh, I'm used to people bashing circumcision and religion. I'm just creeped out by those bringing a sexual aspect into play
 
2012-03-04 08:00:11 AM  

Tatsuma: BurnShrike: So God made him do it? If he didn't have the desire to do it, then the impetus to put his mouth on a child's penis must've come from somewhere else. Where did it come from?

I am not having this discussion anymore with you. I have both explained this, and linked to a thorough explanation. You clearly do not care discussing this, just bashing.

So bash away, I'm done.


Ah good. At least you realize you can't defend your barbaric practice of mutilation.

"How dare you bash me for defending cutting bits off infants! It's my religious right to chop people up!"

Your ethics have been thoroughly warped by the religion you follow. That you can't see how immoral you are saddens me.
 
2012-03-04 08:00:17 AM  

Tatsuma: Also every day I go to a mikveh, where there are at least a dozen naked men present as well. I'm guessing that they'd sexualize something like that as well.


Okay, I'm not familiar with this. I thought one of the main grievances with Greek-style life was that they were naked practically all the time? Now you're naked at church? I demand that you educate me on this mikveh.
 
2012-03-04 08:00:19 AM  

lizaardvark: Tatsuma: Functionality implies necessity. This is not a necessary part of the body.

There's a macabre humor involved in reading this excuse for amputating parts of childrens' bodies. How far shall we run with this? I'm betting we don't need external ears, either.


And yet, you already are a product of your parents upbringing. They chose your name, your clothes, what school you went to, and what environment you grew up in. They do have every right to make these kinds of decisions for their children.
 
2012-03-04 08:00:22 AM  
Actually, that was my first guess, subby.
Circumcision is for farking retards.
 
2012-03-04 08:00:35 AM  

lizaardvark: Tatsuma: Functionality implies necessity. This is not a necessary part of the body.

There's a macabre humor involved in reading this excuse for amputating parts of childrens' bodies. How far shall we run with this? I'm betting we don't need external ears, either.


I'm not using my pinkie toes. Maybe some old dude can cut them off and suck the blood.
 
2012-03-04 08:01:55 AM  

Tatsuma: ryarger: There is no medical reason for an adult to place their mouth on the genitals of an infant. Perhaps there used to be, but as you yourself said, there are now devices that do this and that are perfectly religiously acceptable.

Therefore we have a man sucking on the dick of an infant for non-medical and non-religious reasons. How in *any* philosophy is this not an unacceptable perversion??

There is a medical reason to do metzitzah peh, it's just that today it is considered dangerous due to new risks of infection, therefore the best way to do it is with a tube, or with a device that will pump the blood for you.

That does not change the fact that it's absolutely not an 'unacceptable perversion'.

shivashakti: Forgive them. This is something that's very foreign to them and they can't imagine a context where a grown man would put a baby's penis in his mouth and have it not be sexual.

I guess so.

Also every day I go to a mikveh, where there are at least a dozen naked men present as well. I'm guessing that they'd sexualize something like that as well.

It's quite impressive to see the shift from a purely puritan society where sex is not mentioned, to a society where the boundaries are now so far that almost everything is sexualized.


I thought you were done arguing this topic on this thread.

Also, if a grown, bearded man basically sucks off an 8 day old infant, the person guilty of sexual immorality in your view is the person who sees/reads this and is creeped the fark out?
Remind me never to accept an invitation to your house.
 
2012-03-04 08:02:00 AM  

Tatsuma: Fair_Poopsmith: Huh. Interestingish. Is there any system in place to ensure that rabbis performing this procedure are disease-free?

Generally there is, and this is absolutely something that you can inquire, and most mohelim gets regular shots against diseases such as hepatitis and so on. They can provide medical records showing that as well if you ask.

A mohel with herpes would be someone who just caught it recently and did not realize it yet, it would have to be invisible otherwise they certainly would be disqualified as a mohel the second it showed. Certainly with the mouth, and even with the tube. They themselves will stop in general.

There are very very very few communities that still use the mouth as the generally used method, the vast vast majority use the tube method.


Okay, just checking. As a fairly anti-religious atheist, I'm okay with this, so long as the Jewish community is aware of any risks. Thanks for clarifying.

The rest of you, what the hell are you so concerned about? Nobody's forcing you to be part of this particular ritual. If you're opposed to circumcision in principle, then you should have been fighting against it regardless.
 
2012-03-04 08:03:04 AM  

casual disregard: Okay, I'm not familiar with this. I thought one of the main grievances with Greek-style life was that they were naked practically all the time? Now you're naked at church? I demand that you educate me on this mikveh.


A mikveh is a ritual bath where men go to be purified. This is where the idea of baptism actually comes from. Only men with men, and women with women, and absolutely in an enclosed space.

That's the difference with the greeks, who worshipped the body, nudity was on display publicly, both male and female, and sexual relations where not within the context of marriage, but the context of 'let's just do it guys'
 
2012-03-04 08:03:25 AM  

The more you eat the more you fart: Tatsuma: BurnShrike: So now you're deciding for the child which parts of their body you deem necessary?

You're the one who said it was a 'functional' part of the body.

And my point is that no, this is not a 'functional' part of the body that's needed at all to have a 100% functioning body.

Neither is your appendix. Medically speaking, we don't go around cutting off body parts just because someone thinks its a good idea.

And the foreskin IS functional.


Just as an aside, research now seems to indicate that the appendix is a sort of refuge for beneficial bacteria, so that if something should wipe out the intestinal fauna, the appendix will seed a new supply. That's my current understanding at least. Sorry for the minor threadjack. Please continue.
 
2012-03-04 08:04:17 AM  
This is a very inefficient way to kill infants, aren't white phosphorus missiles and airstrikes faster and more reliable?
 
2012-03-04 08:04:28 AM  

Smoking GNU: I thought you were done arguing this topic on this thread.


No, I was done discussing with one person who couldn't be bothered to read what I was writing, or the explanations I was linking to. Not quite the same.

I'm also done with idiots who believe that this is in any way a sexual activity, for the record.
 
2012-03-04 08:05:05 AM  
The best foreskin function anybody can come up with is increased sensitivity? Yeah, because men have such trouble getting off....

What about the medical benefits of removal...such as reduced incidence of infection and decreased likelihood of STD transmission?
 
2012-03-04 08:05:16 AM  
No happy ending here.
 
2012-03-04 08:05:36 AM  

casual disregard: Tatsuma: Also every day I go to a mikveh, where there are at least a dozen naked men present as well. I'm guessing that they'd sexualize something like that as well.

Okay, I'm not familiar with this. I thought one of the main grievances with Greek-style life was that they were naked practically all the time? Now you're naked at church? I demand that you educate me on this mikveh.


The biggest problem Judaism has with Greek philosophy would probably be Epicurism.

Mikvah= ritual bath.
 
2012-03-04 08:05:42 AM  

Tatsuma: casual disregard: Okay, I'm not familiar with this. I thought one of the main grievances with Greek-style life was that they were naked practically all the time? Now you're naked at church? I demand that you educate me on this mikveh.

A mikveh is a ritual bath where men go to be purified. This is where the idea of baptism actually comes from. Only men with men, and women with women, and absolutely in an enclosed space.

That's the difference with the greeks, who worshipped the body, nudity was on display publicly, both male and female, and sexual relations where not within the context of marriage, but the context of 'let's just do it guys'


Mikveh and bris both being religious ceremonies or traditions are not really a good comparison; no one is putting their mouth on your penis at a mikveh.
 
2012-03-04 08:06:21 AM  

Tatsuma: I guess so.

Also every day I go to a mikveh, where there are at least a dozen naked men present as well. I'm guessing that they'd sexualize something like that as well.

It's quite impressive to see the shift from a purely puritan society where sex is not mentioned, to a society where the boundaries are now so far that almost everything is sexualized.



Well, I think that's what happens in puritanical societies. When people aren't used to perfectly normal things like non-sexual nudity, any sort of nudity because sexualized. Look at the hubbub people have about women breastfeeding in public. Feeding their own child.

AbbeySomeone: It's early the day, just wait. This thread has so much potential. Tatsuma knows what he is getting in to.


True...
 
2012-03-04 08:06:36 AM  
I figured Tatsuma would be in here defending his stone age "wisdom".

fark off.
 
2012-03-04 08:06:45 AM  

Tatsuma: words, words, words


Meh.
 
2012-03-04 08:06:50 AM  

Tatsuma: Smoking GNU: I thought you were done arguing this topic on this thread.

No, I was done discussing with one person who couldn't be bothered to read what I was writing, or the explanations I was linking to. Not quite the same.

I'm also done with idiots who believe that this is in any way a sexual activity, for the record.


I don't think it's sexual...just fkn ridiculous.

For the record.
 
2012-03-04 08:07:11 AM  
Well I'm not Jewish but I'm glad they lopped me, only because girls at least here in the States can be freaked out by an uncircumcised member. Besides which, I'm huge as it is so I could stand to have a little taken off the top, I don't want to scare the hell out of everyone. I'm pretty sure no one sucked me off though. Wouldn't a kid have repressed memories of that? It seems like something that would stay with a kid, even if it's in his subconscious.
 
2012-03-04 08:07:30 AM  

AbbeySomeone: Mikveh and bris both being religious ceremonies or traditions are not really a good comparison; no one is putting their mouth on your penis at a mikveh.


No, that'd be a gay bathhouse....
 
2012-03-04 08:07:31 AM  

Tatsuma: Smoking GNU: I thought you were done arguing this topic on this thread.

No, I was done discussing with one person who couldn't be bothered to read what I was writing, or the explanations I was linking to. Not quite the same.

I'm also done with idiots who believe that this is in any way a sexual activity, for the record.


Alright then, i'll just go suck off a bunch of babies and claim it's for medical/religious purposes. That should keep me out of trouble. Thanks for the heads up.

/Yes, i did rape you but i never had any SEXUAL intentions for doing it, so we're cool, right?
//blergh
 
2012-03-04 08:07:31 AM  

Fair_Poopsmith: Okay, just checking. As a fairly anti-religious atheist, I'm okay with this, so long as the Jewish community is aware of any risks. Thanks for clarifying.

The rest of you, what the hell are you so concerned about? Nobody's forcing you to be part of this particular ritual. If you're opposed to circumcision in principle, then you should have been fighting against it regardless.


Posts like this is why you are favorited as a pretty cool dude.

And yes the community is aware of the risks, and literally you have one case every year, where often its not even determined that the mohel caused the death. There are for example problems with the clamp that cuts the umbilical cord is not properly sterilized, which will lead to a staph infection, and creates very similar symptoms to a case where a mohel with herpes would have contaminated the child.

And again this happens maybe once every couple of years or so. It's a tragedy, but also extremely rare.
 
2012-03-04 08:08:32 AM  

Tatsuma: casual disregard: Okay, I'm not familiar with this. I thought one of the main grievances with Greek-style life was that they were naked practically all the time? Now you're naked at church? I demand that you educate me on this mikveh.

A mikveh is a ritual bath where men go to be purified. This is where the idea of baptism actually comes from. Only men with men, and women with women, and absolutely in an enclosed space.

That's the difference with the greeks, who worshipped the body, nudity was on display publicly, both male and female, and sexual relations where not within the context of marriage, but the context of 'let's just do it guys'


So it's sort of like a same-sex sauna with ritual implications.

Got it!

/FWIW I'm probably the only farker who doesn't think you are Mein
//i do hate mein though
 
2012-03-04 08:09:48 AM  
Also, for the people who are oh so worried with infections:


There are literally tens of thousands of Americans every year who die because their doctors or nurses didn't properly wash their hands, versus possibly one child who dies from this every couple of years or so.

As tragic the latter case obviously is, attention should really be focused on the former than the latter, since as a community we're already taking care of that.
 
2012-03-04 08:09:48 AM  
farm4.static.flickr.com
 
2012-03-04 08:09:56 AM  

Tatsuma: I'm also done with idiots who believe that this is in any way a sexual activity, for the record.


That's fine, but you realize people here are stigmatized and restricted in their activities for life for much less, like urinating in an alley? That there have been major court cases over a student inadvertently brushing his hand against a tutor's breast? Or even debates about photoshopped images of naked children who never existed? How can you be surprised some might be taken aback by a grown man sucking an infant's penis for whatever reason/
 
2012-03-04 08:10:10 AM  

Tatsuma: Smoking GNU: I thought you were done arguing this topic on this thread.

No, I was done discussing with one person who couldn't be bothered to read what I was writing, or the explanations I was linking to. Not quite the same.

I'm also done with idiots who believe that this is in any way a sexual activity, for the record.


I read part of the article you linked, but I've already heard all the standard excuses for mutilating babies.

And how could anyone possibly think that putting your mouth on someone else's genitals is in any way sexual? Why, just last week I did it 3 times to greet my best buds. It's just like a fist bump, and is in no way sexual.
 
2012-03-04 08:10:39 AM  
Getting your dick sucked by an altar boy is not sexual, it's a religious ritual for catholic priests, so it's alright and people calling it pedophilia are just haters. Amirite?
 
2012-03-04 08:11:52 AM  

casual disregard: /FWIW I'm probably the only farker who doesn't think you are Mein


There's at least... 20 of you out there! Anyone who would use a bit of logic would realize based on clear evidence I'm not him, but whatever I just can't care anymore.
 
2012-03-04 08:12:19 AM  
Did didn't get his shots in time.


chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-03-04 08:13:21 AM  
Um, well, that's horrific.
 
2012-03-04 08:13:58 AM  

Kar98: Getting your dick sucked by an altar boy is not sexual, it's a religious ritual for catholic priests, so it's alright and people calling it pedophilia are just haters. Amirite?


The ones calling it pedophilia are the true perverts. They're the ones sexualizing perfectly normal behaviour.
 
2012-03-04 08:14:21 AM  

buckler: That's fine, but you realize people here are stigmatized and restricted in their activities for life for much less, like urinating in an alley?


Could it possibly because the courts, where mature adults with intellectual faculty sat down, examined this situation, and realized that clearly, in this situation, there is absolutely no sexual activity when it comes to metzitzah b'peh?

That's also why a doctor touching your child's genital during an examination is not quite the same as your neighbor doing the very same thing.
 
2012-03-04 08:14:29 AM  

Tatsuma: casual disregard: /FWIW I'm probably the only farker who doesn't think you are Mein

There's at least... 20 of you out there! Anyone who would use a bit of logic would realize based on clear evidence I'm not him, but whatever I just can't care anymore.


We should have a beer together sometime. My favorite is Old Rasputin, which is a Russian Imperial Stout. Very tasty.

/i hate hops!
 
2012-03-04 08:14:29 AM  
I wouldn't have guessed, but I'm not surprised.
 
2012-03-04 08:15:09 AM  

casual disregard: We should have a beer together sometime. My favorite is Old Rasputin, which is a Russian Imperial Stout. Very tasty.

/i hate hops!


That sounds good. I'm always partial to stouts, and now I want to drink one of those.
 
2012-03-04 08:16:18 AM  
Now I want to know where I can find one of those in Israel
 
2012-03-04 08:17:05 AM  

BurnShrike: Kar98: Getting your dick sucked by an altar boy is not sexual, it's a religious ritual for catholic priests, so it's alright and people calling it pedophilia are just haters. Amirite?

The ones calling it pedophilia are the true perverts. They're the ones sexualizing perfectly normal behaviour.


Meh. In Pakistan, its normal for parents to kiss the genitals of their infants.

Westerners can't help but attach sexual significance to that as well.
 
2012-03-04 08:17:20 AM  

Tatsuma: casual disregard: We should have a beer together sometime. My favorite is Old Rasputin, which is a Russian Imperial Stout. Very tasty.

/i hate hops!

That sounds good. I'm always partial to stouts, and now I want to drink one of those.


mmm yummy:
www.theperfectlyhappyman.com
 
2012-03-04 08:17:20 AM  

buckler: That there have been major court cases over a student inadvertently brushing his hand against a tutor's breast?


yeah, that wasn't inadvertent.
 
2012-03-04 08:17:25 AM  
This is ridiculous. How can I be expected to put in any effort when a circumcision/Tatsuma thread shows up on a Sunday morning?

Tatsuma:

Also every day I go to a mikveh, where there are at least a dozen naked men present as well. I'm guessing that they'd sexualize something like that as well.

It's quite impressive to see the shift from a purely puritan society where sex is not mentioned, to a society where the boundaries are now so far that almost everything is sexualized.


I got to the Y, where i see naked dudes with perfect regularity. The old catholics(Italians and portagee and Irish) and jews are the ones that always go buck no matter what, while the Indian/Asian dudes actually take showers with their underwear on because they are so hung up, and the younger white guys are split down the middle.
 
2012-03-04 08:17:51 AM  

Tatsuma: BurnShrike: Some guy wants to put his mouth on a child's penis, but we're the perverts for thinking it's strange? You really have a twisted view of things.

Again, the mere fact that you think he wants, has a desire to, shows just how your own mind is perverted in many ways.

This was established as a medical procedure (in times when oral herpes was not common) in order to make sure the life of a child was not needlessly endangered by the circumcision. Now, since today we have in fact other methods to do this, and there is an increased risk of infection, the vast majority of people perform metzitzah peh with a tube rather than their mouth

Again, I posted a very long and detailed article about this earlier.


So you agree it's a medical procedure.


Then the correct course of action would be a large number of arrests for practicing medicine without a license...
 
2012-03-04 08:19:32 AM  
"ultra-Orthodox ritual known as metzizah b' peh."

Damn Klingons.
 
2012-03-04 08:19:40 AM  

H31N0US: I figured Tatsuma would be in here defending his stone age "wisdom".

fark off.


You're supposed to say "fark off troll" when you don't share an opinion with somebody. You can also follow up with "welcome to ignore" if you're really awesome.
 
2012-03-04 08:19:51 AM  

casual disregard: Tatsuma: casual disregard: We should have a beer together sometime. My favorite is Old Rasputin, which is a Russian Imperial Stout. Very tasty.

/i hate hops!

That sounds good. I'm always partial to stouts, and now I want to drink one of those.

mmm yummy:
[www.theperfectlyhappyman.com image 640x480]


That looks really good!
 
2012-03-04 08:20:09 AM  

Lehk: Tatsuma: BurnShrike: Some guy wants to put his mouth on a child's penis, but we're the perverts for thinking it's strange? You really have a twisted view of things.

Again, the mere fact that you think he wants, has a desire to, shows just how your own mind is perverted in many ways.

This was established as a medical procedure (in times when oral herpes was not common) in order to make sure the life of a child was not needlessly endangered by the circumcision. Now, since today we have in fact other methods to do this, and there is an increased risk of infection, the vast majority of people perform metzitzah peh with a tube rather than their mouth

Again, I posted a very long and detailed article about this earlier.

So you agree it's a medical procedure.


Then the correct course of action would be a large number of arrests for practicing medicine without a license...


Careful. Don't post difficult arguments to refute. Tats will stop discussions with you because you're "bashing". (Also because he can't justify the mutilations)
 
2012-03-04 08:20:12 AM  

Lehk: Tatsuma: BurnShrike: Some guy wants to put his mouth on a child's penis, but we're the perverts for thinking it's strange? You really have a twisted view of things.

Again, the mere fact that you think he wants, has a desire to, shows just how your own mind is perverted in many ways.

This was established as a medical procedure (in times when oral herpes was not common) in order to make sure the life of a child was not needlessly endangered by the circumcision. Now, since today we have in fact other methods to do this, and there is an increased risk of infection, the vast majority of people perform metzitzah peh with a tube rather than their mouth

Again, I posted a very long and detailed article about this earlier.

So you agree it's a medical procedure.


Then the correct course of action would be a large number of arrests for practicing medicine without a license...


Its not medical. Its sanctioned by G-d.
 
2012-03-04 08:21:39 AM  

9beers: H31N0US: I figured Tatsuma would be in here defending his stone age "wisdom".

fark off.

You're supposed to say "fark off troll" when you don't share an opinion with somebody. You can also follow up with "welcome to ignore" if you're really awesome.


That's old and busted. New version is to tell them what color and description you will farkie them as, or something.
 
2012-03-04 08:23:52 AM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


We wouldn't need the word atheism at all if people didn't believe in make believe shiat.
 
2012-03-04 08:24:23 AM  
 
2012-03-04 08:26:22 AM  

Tatsuma: This is of course an incredible tragedy, but far from the norm nowadays, as brit milah by a competent mohel is about as safe as it gets, bar the very rare and exceptional tragedy such as this


A tragedy is when a tornado hits a house, killing the occupants. A tragedy is when a tsunami wipes a town away. A tragedy is when a child dies from leukemia.

I'm not sure what I would call this utterly preventable happening. Medical malpractice? Child abuse? Reckless endangerment? Negligent homicide?

Yep, I think I'll go with the last one.
 
2012-03-04 08:28:03 AM  

Amos Quito: You Cant Explain That: All I can say it it amazes me the jews were the ones to come up with this and not the catholics.


Judyism is older that Catholycism, and circumcision is older still.


/Jews get infant Herp-a-derp
//Catholics get hang nails


and the C word clocks in with record time

herpaderp
 
2012-03-04 08:28:16 AM  

TsarTom: Call me an idealist, but people really shouldn't be sucking on an infant's junk for any reason.


Snakebite?
 
2012-03-04 08:28:33 AM  

Tatsuma: Now I want to know where I can find one of those in Israel


The best I can tell you is that it is brewed by North Coast Brewery: Link (new window)

How to get it in your nation is up to you. I suspect it's not widely available. Shoot, I only know of one store within a fifteen minute drive that sells it where I live.
 
2012-03-04 08:28:44 AM  
Blah blah blah restricted by age of consent blah, blah blah-blah.
 
2012-03-04 08:30:51 AM  
First off I gotta say that I think this practice is horrible and should die out with the other horrible religious traditions that society has deemed relics of another time. That said, I think one must remember the time and place it started. If those people thought it was holy to cut off the foreskin of a boy then they had to figure out what to do with him afterwards. If sucking the area was the only way they knew to keep it clean then that is what they would do. Its a nonlogical practice that can easily be done away with and most Jews have done so.

link talking about it:
http://www.jewishideas.org/articles/metzitzah-bpeh-oral-law

Stupid religious crap from wiki:
"Rabbi Saadia Gaon considers something to be 'complete', if it lacks nothing, but also has nothing that is unneeded. He regards the foreskin an unneeded organ that God created in man, and so by amputating it, the man is completed."

"Maimonides (Moses ben Maimon "Rambam", CE 1135-1204), who apart from being a great Torah scholar was also a physician and philosopher, argued that circumcision acts to repress sexual pleasure and serves as a common bodily sign to members of the same faith."


/atheist
//grandson of a jew
///cut, cringing at the thought if I was orthodox
 
2012-03-04 08:32:16 AM  

casual disregard: Tatsuma: Now I want to know where I can find one of those in Israel

The best I can tell you is that it is brewed by North Coast Brewery: Link (new window)

How to get it in your nation is up to you. I suspect it's not widely available. Shoot, I only know of one store within a fifteen minute drive that sells it where I live.


Tats, you ever try brewing your own beer?

I did, and the majority of the time, it ended up as what we called "Limburger beer" you might have more luck.
 
2012-03-04 08:32:50 AM  
I need therapy after reading that garbage.
 
2012-03-04 08:33:49 AM  

sharpiegreed: I need therapy after reading that garbage.


You should read the link Tatsuma posted. It explains everything and you'll end up feeling silly that you ever thought there was something wrong with using your mouth to remove a part of a boy's penis.
 
2012-03-04 08:34:26 AM  

Malky: First off I gotta say that I think this practice is horrible and should die out with the other horrible religious traditions that society has deemed relics of another time. That said, I think one must remember the time and place it started. If those people thought it was holy to cut off the foreskin of a boy then they had to figure out what to do with him afterwards. If sucking the area was the only way they knew to keep it clean then that is what they would do. Its a nonlogical practice that can easily be done away with and most Jews have done so.

link talking about it:
http://www.jewishideas.org/articles/metzitzah-bpeh-oral-law

Stupid religious crap from wiki:
"Rabbi Saadia Gaon considers something to be 'complete', if it lacks nothing, but also has nothing that is unneeded. He regards the foreskin an unneeded organ that God created in man, and so by amputating it, the man is completed."

"Maimonides (Moses ben Maimon "Rambam", CE 1135-1204), who apart from being a great Torah scholar was also a physician and philosopher, argued that circumcision acts to repress sexual pleasure and serves as a common bodily sign to members of the same faith."


/atheist
//grandson of a jew
///cut, cringing at the thought if I was orthodox


And somehow, your name is Malky? Something is fishy.
 
2012-03-04 08:35:45 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: casual disregard: Tatsuma: Now I want to know where I can find one of those in Israel

The best I can tell you is that it is brewed by North Coast Brewery: Link (new window)

How to get it in your nation is up to you. I suspect it's not widely available. Shoot, I only know of one store within a fifteen minute drive that sells it where I live.

Tats, you ever try brewing your own beer?

I did, and the majority of the time, it ended up as what we called "Limburger beer" you might have more luck.


I had a coworker who retired recently. She brewed her own beer with her husband. It was a darn sight better than what was commercially available in most places. I unsuccessfully tried to convince them to open their own brewery. They just like making their own stuff for fun. I once joked that it would be simpler to list the things they didn't make on their own.
 
2012-03-04 08:35:51 AM  
I'm an atheist, my son is circumsized and I don't feel guilty about it. I'M A MONSTER!
 
2012-03-04 08:35:52 AM  

Tatsuma: And again this happens maybe once every couple of years or so. It's a tragedy, but also extremely rare.


On the one hand, you almost nobody performs the ritual this way. On the other hand, you say that instances of infection are rare. I think the conclusion here is that infection is statistically significant with this ritual.

The fact is that people are knowingly putting a child at risk by performing a ritual. This is not an adult who can make a choice.

Tragedy is more commonly used to describe an unpreventable event that causes suffering. This was an entirely preventable disease inflicted upon a defenseless person by people knowingly engaging in risky behavior. A more accurate description of this event would be a crime.
 
2012-03-04 08:36:29 AM  
Philistines
 
2012-03-04 08:36:49 AM  
fish can be kosher :D
 
2012-03-04 08:37:40 AM  

dezba: I'm an atheist, my son is circumsized and I don't feel guilty about it. I'M A MONSTER!


My parents decided to cut me. I suppose it's nice having a smegma-free life, but I have to wonder if the sex might have been more fun.
 
2012-03-04 08:38:34 AM  

casual disregard: Diogenes The Cynic: casual disregard: Tatsuma: Now I want to know where I can find one of those in Israel

The best I can tell you is that it is brewed by North Coast Brewery: Link (new window)

How to get it in your nation is up to you. I suspect it's not widely available. Shoot, I only know of one store within a fifteen minute drive that sells it where I live.

Tats, you ever try brewing your own beer?

I did, and the majority of the time, it ended up as what we called "Limburger beer" you might have more luck.

I had a coworker who retired recently. She brewed her own beer with her husband. It was a darn sight better than what was commercially available in most places. I unsuccessfully tried to convince them to open their own brewery. They just like making their own stuff for fun. I once joked that it would be simpler to list the things they didn't make on their own.


A commercial brewery can't really compete with a good brewer. A person can make a couple of gallons of beer with honey, for example, but a brewery would consider that too expensive.
 
2012-03-04 08:38:52 AM  

BronyMedic: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

According to the US Census, so is Jedi and Sith. Why won't you accept that Obi Wan Kenobi died for your sins, letrole?


Jedi a religion? Let's see:

1) Sexual repression, since lust and love lead to the Dark Side.
2) Preach pacifism and serenity as the way to peace, but just to make sure you're ready for war, practice all the time with photonic death swords that can slice and dice your opponent to shreds.
3) Lying to the last scion of the Jedi to ensure he hates and distrusts the Lord of the Sith, who just happens to be his father.
4) Letting yourself be killed by said Sith Lord to ensure your martyrdom ensures a supportive, vengeful pupil.
5) When the pupil learns the truth on their own and confronts you with it, explain to them that his father wasn't really his father anymore, truth is relative, so shut the fark up about it.

Yeah, sounds like a religion to me.
 
2012-03-04 08:40:56 AM  
Tatsuma: Do you realize that many doctors are trained by professional mohelim? Also that mohelim are considered to be much better than doctors at this particular surgery most of the time?

/not against circumcision in general, just against someone without the initials "M.D." behind their name performing it.This article is a fairly good explanation as to why


(CITATION NEEDED). Funny how circumcisions in a hospital are performed, again, in a surgical suite by either a qualified Pediatric Surgeon or Urologist, under either local anesthetic or general.

Tatsuma: Except that it's not "horrendously" painful. They stop crying almost immediately. In the last years, there's barely a month where I don't go to one circumcision. Often, more than once. The baby cries for a few seconds, and it's over. Scarring and infection are quite rare, and I'm not going to go into that 'loss of function' discussion.

....UH. NO. Please educate yourself on the physiologic indicators of pain in neonates and infants. Crying, or the absense there-of, does not function as the only indicator of pain. Thank you for playing, good Sir.

Position Statement from the American Society of Pain Management Nurses - http://www.aspmn.org/pdfs/Pediatric%20Circumcision.pdf

ASPMN recognizes that neonatal circumcision is a painful procedure. The Society recognizes that the
neonate has a right to an anesthetic to prevent the pain of the procedure. Therefore, as healthcare
providers, we are obligated to provide an appropriate anesthetic for neonatal circumcision.


Position Statement from the American Academy of Pediatrics - http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;103/3 /686

There is considerable evidence that newborns who are circumcised without analgesia experience pain and physiologic stress. Neonatal physiologic responses to circumcision pain include changes in heart rate, blood pressure, oxygen saturation, and cortisol levels.36-39 One report has noted that circumcised infants exhibit a stronger pain response to subsequent routine immunization than do uncircumcised infants.40 Several methods to provide analgesia for circumcision have been evaluated.

/so again, Tatsuma, why must you torture infants who have no medical need for circumcision, especially when circumcision is not required for Jewish Identity?
 
2012-03-04 08:41:48 AM  

buckler: dezba: I'm an atheist, my son is circumsized and I don't feel guilty about it. I'M A MONSTER!

My parents decided to cut me. I suppose it's nice having a smegma-free life, but I have to wonder if the sex might have been more fun.


You have no way of knowing, so whats the difference?
 
2012-03-04 08:41:59 AM  
letrole: A big problem is that your religion is composed only of converts. Since members can't get laid, they can't have children to bring up in the faith.

Actually, Jedi do have sex. It's emotionless. Much like what your mom does.
 
2012-03-04 08:44:26 AM  

Amos Quito: demaL-demaL-yeH: That mohel was doing it wrong: The stated purpose of metziza tradition is to protect the child's health.
Mohels still perform the suction to keep to the Talmudic tradition, but not with direct oral contact rather via a sterile tube that has one way suction.

As for those who object to circumcision as a barbaric custom, Tziporah agrees.
It's our religion and our covenant.


My position? If y'all want to hack away at your sons' [img.fark.com image 54x11] for the sake of your silly religious superstitions, go for it.

Godspeed, good luck, and all that.

But PLEASE, don't try to justify your cruel barbaric bloodletting rites by insisting that it's healthier, more hygienic,or whatever, and don't try to get the gullible goyim to follow your example.


/Castration is the new circumcision
//Trendy


Isn't there evidence/biological plausibility that circumcision can reduce the risk of STD transmission? That said it's obviously better to just wrap it up and the benefits are probably only significant in a place like Africa.
 
2012-03-04 08:45:15 AM  

Tatsuma: Also, for the people who are oh so worried with infections:


There are literally tens of thousands of Americans every year who die because their doctors or nurses didn't properly wash their hands, versus possibly one child who dies from this every couple of years or so.

As tragic the latter case obviously is, attention should really be focused on the former than the latter, since as a community we're already taking care of that.


Yeah, i'd like to see the overall percentage of incidence on those for comparison. I'm actually sensitive to the tradition argument but how about some 21st century common sense? Use a straw or a filter, or make the Mohels who do this be regularly tested for communicable disease. There must be a good Jewish doctor somewhere who could help.
 
2012-03-04 08:46:19 AM  

BronyMedic: Actually, Jedi do have sex. It's emotionless. Much like what your mom does.


They do? They'd have to use contraception though. If Jedi were allowed to breed there'd be way too many of them. They'd be a whole race and it would fark up the one to one master to padawan ratio.

/trying to get off the sucking off babies thing
//that didn't come out right
///neither did that
 
2012-03-04 08:46:21 AM  

BronyMedic: /so again, Tatsuma, why must you torture infants who have no medical need for circumcision, especially when circumcision is not required for Jewish Identity?


He already stated that circumcision is abnormal and unnecessary for non-religious reasons in response to me. Search my name! I can't be bothered to quote it!

Diogenes The Cynic: buckler: dezba: I'm an atheist, my son is circumsized and I don't feel guilty about it. I'M A MONSTER!

My parents decided to cut me. I suppose it's nice having a smegma-free life, but I have to wonder if the sex might have been more fun.

You have no way of knowing, so whats the difference?


Foreskin Restoration (possibly NSFW?) (new window)
 
2012-03-04 08:47:39 AM  

BronyMedic: Tatsuma: Do you realize that many doctors are trained by professional mohelim? Also that mohelim are considered to be much better than doctors at this particular surgery most of the time?

/not against circumcision in general, just against someone without the initials "M.D." behind their name performing it.This article is a fairly good explanation as to why

(CITATION NEEDED). Funny how circumcisions in a hospital are performed, again, in a surgical suite by either a qualified Pediatric Surgeon or Urologist, under either local anesthetic or general.

Tatsuma: Except that it's not "horrendously" painful. They stop crying almost immediately. In the last years, there's barely a month where I don't go to one circumcision. Often, more than once. The baby cries for a few seconds, and it's over. Scarring and infection are quite rare, and I'm not going to go into that 'loss of function' discussion.

....UH. NO. Please educate yourself on the physiologic indicators of pain in neonates and infants. Crying, or the absense there-of, does not function as the only indicator of pain. Thank you for playing, good Sir.

Position Statement from the American Society of Pain Management Nurses - http://www.aspmn.org/pdfs/Pediatric%20Circumcision.pdf

ASPMN recognizes that neonatal circumcision is a painful procedure. The Society recognizes that the
neonate has a right to an anesthetic to prevent the pain of the procedure. Therefore, as healthcare
providers, we are obligated to provide an appropriate anesthetic for neonatal circumcision.

Position Statement from the American Academy of Pediatrics - http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;103/3 /686

There is considerable evidence that newborns who are circumcised without analgesia experience pain and physiologic stress. Neonatal physiologic responses to circumcision pain include changes in heart rate, blood pressure, oxygen saturation, and cortisol levels.36-39 One report has noted that circumcised infants exhibi ...


Sure, non-religious circumcisions are done in hospitals, but for Jews, they would be invalid. That point is moot.
Many mohels are M.D.'s in small communities.

And, while the medical need of circumcision is debatable, the religious need is indisputable. G-d commanded it. Case closed. It is necessary for Jewish identity, as we define it.

Your definition just doesn't matter.
 
2012-03-04 08:48:33 AM  
The_Homeless_Guy: Isn't there evidence/biological plausibility that circumcision can reduce the risk of STD transmission? That said it's obviously better to just wrap it up and the benefits are probably only significant in a place like Africa.

Actually, there's strong evidence that Circumcision reduces STD transmission. But there's also the loss of function that goes with elective circumcision.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22249299
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22249298
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22014096
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21992987
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21965090
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21917697
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21909030

TL;DR - Males that were circumcised showed greatly decreased rates of STDs in second and third world countries.
 
2012-03-04 08:49:18 AM  

Mugato: BronyMedic: Actually, Jedi do have sex. It's emotionless. Much like what your mom does.

They do? They'd have to use contraception though. If Jedi were allowed to breed there'd be way too many of them. They'd be a whole race and it would fark up the one to one master to padawan ratio.

/trying to get off the sucking off babies thing
//that didn't come out right
///neither did that


They kind of did away with that in the EU. There's hundreds of Jedi running around. Luke married Mara and had like three kids. Also, a splinter group to the Sith became the only Sith alive at the time. They're called the One Sith, and despite the presence of the word "one" it was basically just an excuse to have a powerful leader and a bunch of cannon fodder.

/EU sucks
 
2012-03-04 08:51:22 AM  
Diogenes The Cynic: And, while the medical need of circumcision is debatable, the religious need is indisputable. G-d commanded it. Case closed. It is necessary for Jewish identity, as we define it.

Your definition just doesn't matter.


Um, really? You might want to discuss that with such groups as the Collage of Judaeism as Culture in Israel, and the Secular and Humanistic Jews. They might just disagree with you.

/I worship Khorne. You're cool with me taking your skull, right? For the throne? After all, religion!
 
2012-03-04 08:51:29 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: And, while the medical need of circumcision is debatable, the religious need is indisputable. G-d commanded it. Case closed. It is necessary for Jewish identity, as we define it.

Your definition just doesn't matter.


I would state it differently. Again, I am 100% anti-circumcision, but I realize that I can never change your mind on the matter.

Let the religiously required circumcisions occur. Stop all generic circumcisions in hospitals. I get mine, you get yours.
 
2012-03-04 08:52:37 AM  

dezba: I'm an atheist, my son is circumsized and I don't feel guilty about it. I'M A MONSTER!


You're not a monster. Unless you are building jewelry from foreskin... That would be kinda sick.

I assume you had it done either because you didn't want him to stand out in the boys locker room or concern about infections for potential female partners?

I didn't have my boys circumcised but these thoughts crossed my mind. In the end I just decided that if they evolved to have foreskin, I'd let that ride.
 
2012-03-04 08:53:22 AM  
funnycrave.frsucrave.netdna-cdn.com
 
2012-03-04 08:53:25 AM  
casual disregard: They kind of did away with that in the EU. There's hundreds of Jedi running around. Luke married Mara and had like three kids. Also, a splinter group to the Sith became the only Sith alive at the time. They're called the One Sith, and despite the presence of the word "one" it was basically just an excuse to have a powerful leader and a bunch of cannon fodder.

SWTOR-verse did away with it completely. Powerful Jedi are encouraged to breed to provide powerful offspring for the rebuilding of the Tython order. You can't really blame them, though - the Sith did kind of almost completely exterminate them in the Bombardment of Coruscant.

/you know, come to think about it, the Jews and Jedi do share some key similarities.
 
2012-03-04 08:55:15 AM  

apachevoyeur: dezba: I'm an atheist, my son is circumsized and I don't feel guilty about it. I'M A MONSTER!

You're not a monster. Unless you are building jewelry from foreskin... That would be kinda sick.

I assume you had it done either because you didn't want him to stand out in the boys locker room or concern about infections for potential female partners?

I didn't have my boys circumcised but these thoughts crossed my mind. In the end I just decided that if they evolved to have foreskin, I'd let that ride.


Luggage, not jewelry.
 
2012-03-04 08:55:28 AM  

BronyMedic: Diogenes The Cynic: And, while the medical need of circumcision is debatable, the religious need is indisputable. G-d commanded it. Case closed. It is necessary for Jewish identity, as we define it.

Your definition just doesn't matter.

Um, really? You might want to discuss that with such groups as the Collage of Judaeism as Culture in Israel, and the Secular and Humanistic Jews. They might just disagree with you.

/I worship Khorne. You're cool with me taking your skull, right? For the throne? After all, religion!


Are they Orthodox Jewish establishments?

Hmmmmmmmmmm, No?

Well then, they do not represent, or practice Judaism.
 
2012-03-04 08:57:07 AM  

casual disregard: Diogenes The Cynic: And, while the medical need of circumcision is debatable, the religious need is indisputable. G-d commanded it. Case closed. It is necessary for Jewish identity, as we define it.

Your definition just doesn't matter.

I would state it differently. Again, I am 100% anti-circumcision, but I realize that I can never change your mind on the matter.

Let the religiously required circumcisions occur. Stop all generic circumcisions in hospitals. I get mine, you get yours.


So, you leave me alone, and I leave you alone?

Its a deal!
 
2012-03-04 08:57:13 AM  

Tatsuma: There are literally tens of thousands of Americans every year who die because their doctors or nurses didn't properly wash their hands, versus possibly one child who dies from this every couple of years or so.


Some people. Making a mountain out of a mohel.
 
2012-03-04 08:58:08 AM  

casual disregard: They kind of did away with that in the EU. There's hundreds of Jedi running around. Luke married Mara and had like three kids. Also, a splinter group to the Sith became the only Sith alive at the time. They're called the One Sith, and despite the presence of the word "one" it was basically just an excuse to have a powerful leader and a bunch of cannon fodder.

/EU sucks


Yeah I figured after Luke all the Jedi rules went out the window but I figured at the time of the Prequels they were all monks. And yes, the EU sucks.
 
2012-03-04 08:58:39 AM  

Babwa Wawa: Tragedy is more commonly used to describe an unpreventable event that causes suffering. This was an entirely preventable disease inflicted upon a defenseless person by people knowingly engaging in risky behavior. A more accurate description of this event would be a crime.


citation needed. did you hear about the family whose children were killed in a car accident while they were on their way to a baptism? christ, if they'd just given the kid a bath at home, it all would have been ok. hope those parents go up for life for engaging in the risky behavior of navigating boston's streets.

whether or not the circumcision has to be performed as done in the article may be up for debate. i myself was circumcised at maimonides by an m.d. my parents don't give me anything---i have to get my own stds!
 
2012-03-04 09:04:14 AM  
Diogenes The Cynic: Well then, they do not represent, or practice Judaism

So they're not "True Jews©®™" unless they follow Orthodox Judaism, then? Is that like you're only a "true Christian" if you follow the doctrine of the person you're talking with?

I guess only 13% of American Jews and 25% of Israeli Jews are true, then. You know what, I think I see a Scotsman somewhere. Maybe not, he wasn't wearing a kilt. All true Scotsmen wear kilts.

/So, you're cool with me taking that skull, right? Religion and all?
//And this, folks, is why we have separation of Church and State.
 
2012-03-04 09:04:31 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: casual disregard: Diogenes The Cynic: And, while the medical need of circumcision is debatable, the religious need is indisputable. G-d commanded it. Case closed. It is necessary for Jewish identity, as we define it.

Your definition just doesn't matter.

I would state it differently. Again, I am 100% anti-circumcision, but I realize that I can never change your mind on the matter.

Let the religiously required circumcisions occur. Stop all generic circumcisions in hospitals. I get mine, you get yours.

So, you leave me alone, and I leave you alone?

Its a deal!


Sigh, if only it were so simple.

I profess no worship at all. Here's where I differ from others - I will never cite an inferior authority on Judaism when attempting to speak authoritatively on Judaism. What i want is openness, freedom, and peace. I want a good future, and that's the only way to have it. I wish you could do more to educate the masses on your customs and traditions, because really they aren't scary at all. I also wish that you could discourage your rites amongst the masses who are not your people, because it skews perceptions and tarnishes your own reputation.

/you think this thread is bad, i have actually met people who stringently believe that Judaism is named after Judas
 
2012-03-04 09:06:55 AM  
fark me, i knew it. Open wound, guy puts his herpes laden mouth over it, and the baby dies, cause he wants to suck it's dick. Charming custom. How about just cleaning it off with some sterile water and sponges? Christ.
 
2012-03-04 09:12:51 AM  
Maybe he's a vampire Rabbi with STDs. It could happen.
 
2012-03-04 09:13:53 AM  

BronyMedic: Diogenes The Cynic: Well then, they do not represent, or practice Judaism

So they're not "True Jews©®™" unless they follow Orthodox Judaism, then? Is that like you're only a "true Christian" if you follow the doctrine of the person you're talking with?

I guess only 13% of American Jews and 25% of Israeli Jews are true, then. You know what, I think I see a Scotsman somewhere. Maybe not, he wasn't wearing a kilt. All true Scotsmen wear kilts.

/So, you're cool with me taking that skull, right? Religion and all?
//And this, folks, is why we have separation of Church and State.


Don't you go putting words in my mouth. Nowhere did I say they were not True Jews

They're not PRACTICING Jews.

I have no idea what your skull references are to. They do sound weird.
 
2012-03-04 09:14:16 AM  
Tatsuma: And again this happens maybe once every couple of years or so. It's a tragedy, but also extremely rare.

And is 100% preventable.
 
2012-03-04 09:14:50 AM  

Tatsuma: The one who sexualizes it.


By this reason, Toddler pageants are not bad at all, It's the fault of those who thinks of it as sexual, since they're the ones that injects their mind-view of sexuality on the pageants.
 
2012-03-04 09:15:00 AM  
And what specifically does one call the sucking of a bloody baby penis?

The Aristocrats!
 
2012-03-04 09:15:18 AM  

proteus_b: did you hear about the family whose children were killed in a car accident while they were on their way to a baptism? christ, if they'd just given the kid a bath at home, it all would have been ok. hope those parents go up for life for engaging in the risky behavior of navigating boston's streets.

whether or not the circumcision has to be performed as done in the article may be up for debate. i myself was circumcised at maimonides by an m.d. my parents don't give me anything---i have to get my own stds!


Irrelevant comparison is irrelevant. It's like trying to compare russian roulette to car accidents.

Placing your mouth on someone else's open wound is extraordinarily risky behavior - the chances of infection are exceedingly high. Compared to a car ride, the risk of this ritual as performed in TFA is a lot higher than a car ride, and the risk is not random in nature.
 
2012-03-04 09:15:45 AM  

BronyMedic: Diogenes The Cynic: Well then, they do not represent, or practice Judaism

So they're not "True Jews©®™" unless they follow Orthodox Judaism, then? Is that like you're only a "true Christian" if you follow the doctrine of the person you're talking with?

I guess only 13% of American Jews and 25% of Israeli Jews are true, then. You know what, I think I see a Scotsman somewhere. Maybe not, he wasn't wearing a kilt. All true Scotsmen wear kilts.

/So, you're cool with me taking that skull, right? Religion and all?
//And this, folks, is why we have separation of Church and State.


What, even if you're not part of the faith, you're willing to take a stand on how devout someone is? Come on. I think it's all hocus-pocus bullshiat, but there are obviously some Christians who are "better" at being Christian than others, likewise Jews. These people have their insane laws and guidelines for whatever reason, and who's to say that the more orthodox adherents can't pass judgment on those who claim to share their faith but fall short in practice? The way I see it, if someone wants to be "half-assed Jewish," "half-assed Catholic," or "half-assed Mormon," they're free to start their own religious movement.
 
2012-03-04 09:17:21 AM  
Came for Rabbi Tuckman, leaving satisfied.
 
2012-03-04 09:20:42 AM  
When our son was born, the doctor was going down his checklist of usual items in a matter of routine, and got to, "...will you want him circumcised?"

We said, "No."

He stopped dead in his tracks, looked up from his paper into our eyes and said a heartfelt, "Good for you. That's a lot more unusual here in the midwest..."

Not one single problem with son's little member, and there has been no maintenance or anything.
 
2012-03-04 09:21:40 AM  

The_Homeless_Guy: Amos Quito: demaL-demaL-yeH: That mohel was doing it wrong: The stated purpose of metziza tradition is to protect the child's health.
Mohels still perform the suction to keep to the Talmudic tradition, but not with direct oral contact rather via a sterile tube that has one way suction.

As for those who object to circumcision as a barbaric custom, Tziporah agrees.
It's our religion and our covenant.


My position? If y'all want to hack away at your sons' [img.fark.com image 54x11] for the sake of your silly religious superstitions, go for it.

Godspeed, good luck, and all that.

But PLEASE, don't try to justify your cruel barbaric bloodletting rites by insisting that it's healthier, more hygienic,or whatever, and don't try to get the gullible goyim to follow your example.


/Castration is the new circumcision
//Trendy

Isn't there evidence/biological plausibility that circumcision can reduce the risk of STD transmission?



Darwin at work

scottystarnes.files.wordpress.com

Do not disturb
 
2012-03-04 09:22:37 AM  

Hetfield: uttertosh: There's plenty of really rather entertaining trolls on fark. You're just not one of them.

Yet you responded. You lose.


HA!!! So letrole is your alt!! Nice of you to tip your hand.

/has no idea what he lost by responding.
 
2012-03-04 09:22:43 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: I have no idea what your skull references are to. They do sound weird.


Khorne is the blood god in the Warhammer universe. It is one of the agents of chaos. More demon than god, really.

There is a bitonal nature present in most people. You're either a white pixel or you're a black pixel. You're either this, or you're that. You're either with us, or you're against us. Most people just don't have the organs necessary to perceive the various shades of gray present in a given population. This is one of those cases where I'm going to have to put the onus on you to better explain your life, not because your life is aberrant but because nobody else knows what's happening.
 
2012-03-04 09:24:20 AM  
I knew this guy who was changing his infant son and while he was changing him he was trying to tickle him and talking like a baby to him. As he lowered his head to get closer to his son I was about to say careful he might piss on you. The guy then put his son's penis in his mouth and moved it side to side. While he was doing that you could tell he was still talking like a baby to him. I was shocked and didn't say anything amd left the room. That was the last time I ever talked to that guy. I know the son was only 2 months at the time but I hope it didn't continue or the mom made him stop doing that.
 
2012-03-04 09:24:54 AM  

letrole: BronyMedic: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

According to the US Census, so is Jedi and Sith. Why won't you accept that Obi Wan Kenobi died for your sins, letrole?

I don't want to. I have free will. I'm sure you think have some sort of point there.


According to many/most religions, you don't have free will.

/Obi-Wan DID die for my sins... my sin of paying to watch the damn movie
 
2012-03-04 09:25:32 AM  
the religion of penis strikes again.
 
2012-03-04 09:26:41 AM  

namatad: do you know what would solve these problems? banning religion

/sigh - delusion is such a wonderful thing



NO ONE is saying that. There are many acceptable solutions.

I for one endorse rounding up the Jews into railroad cars & shipping them to work camps built around coal power plants. We can use their forced labor to assemble consumer electronic devices rather than outsourcing that work to China. We can save even more money by feeding them a thin gruel (roughly 300 calories per day per person). As they get too sick and weak we will burn them for fuel in the power plants. In order to reduce the number of people living off welfare we'll also round up the homeless and the mentally or physically ill for immediate conversion into fuel.

Under my proposal, the US fiscal budget would be balanced in less than 5 years.

I call it the Nein, Nein, Nein plan.
 
2012-03-04 09:27:05 AM  

Don Bigles:

If we're going to turn this into a circumcision thread, I'd just like to point out that I don't care if people do it, but the guys involved should be able to choose whether to do it or not later in life, rather than having it forced upon them before they even know their name.


You know what? I'm good with it happening when I'm maybe a day old.
 
2012-03-04 09:27:46 AM  

uttertosh: HA!!! So letrole is your alt!! Nice of you to tip your hand.

/has no idea what he lost by responding.



I don't think so. Responding to trolls are one of the measures of trolling, that if they respond specifically to their post, it counts as a bite.

/ Unless if you're trolling, then kudos, you got me ;)
 
2012-03-04 09:28:09 AM  
People do some really farked up things in the name of religion.
 
2012-03-04 09:29:42 AM  
i44.tinypic.com

/oblig
 
2012-03-04 09:31:24 AM  
braedan: namatad: do you know what would solve these problems? banning religion

/sigh - delusion is such a wonderful thing


NO ONE is saying that. There are many acceptable solutions.

I for one endorse rounding up the Jews into railroad cars & shipping them to work camps built around coal power plants. We can use their forced labor to assemble consumer electronic devices rather than outsourcing that work to China. We can save even more money by feeding them a thin gruel (roughly 300 calories per day per person). As they get too sick and weak we will burn them for fuel in the power plants. In order to reduce the number of people living off welfare we'll also round up the homeless and the mentally or physically ill for immediate conversion into fuel.

Under my proposal, the US fiscal budget would be balanced in less than 5 years.

I call it the Nein, Nein, Nein plan.


I think I may have read that plan in a book once, while setting in Mein Kampfy chair.

/going to Hell for that one.
 
2012-03-04 09:33:05 AM  
Arrr! bitemark........

Almost 300 comments and not a mention of Hitlerino. Farkers have standards?

/How is babby deformed?
 
2012-03-04 09:33:21 AM  
What...the...hell...
 
2012-03-04 09:33:43 AM  
Jewish Babycock Vampires:

Only Religion could come up with something this insane.
 
2012-03-04 09:34:23 AM  

LinaBo: People keep cutting them off, but mother nature just keeps popping boys out with a foreskin attached. Maybe, just maybe, she's trying to tell us something?


Did you have your wisdom teeth pulled?

Genuinely curious.

/still have mine, actually
 
2012-03-04 09:36:27 AM  
I'm sorry but how does a tradition such as this get developed? Who even thought this was a good idea when it came about.
 
2012-03-04 09:37:35 AM  

Devolving_Spud: I guessed correctly. What do I get?

Goyim here, with a head full of useless knowledge...


I guessed right too, after hearing about the practice on the Howard Stern show, which I was forced to listen to when it was on the air (since beating the radio with a hammer would have possibly got me canned, as therapeutic as it would have been).

I'm just shocked that herpes can be fatal. I thought it was more of one of those really annoying nuisance diseases.
 
2012-03-04 09:38:03 AM  

Coastalgrl: I'm sorry but how does a tradition such as this get developed? Who even thought this was a good idea when it came about.


www.prankplace.com
 
2012-03-04 09:38:34 AM  

Coastalgrl: I'm sorry but how does a tradition such as this get developed? Who even thought this was a good idea when it came about.


G-d told us to do circumcisions. Its plain as day in the Torah.

The how of the practice comes from the Gemara.
 
2012-03-04 09:40:24 AM  

Mister Peejay: I'm just shocked that herpes can be fatal. I thought it was more of one of those really annoying nuisance diseases.


A lot of things that aren't normally fatal can be fatal to infants, and the elderly, for that matter.

Sadly, the moment you point this out to the ultra-orthodox, they're going to retreat to the "it was God's will" stance and the "you're discriminating against my religion" talking point.
 
2012-03-04 09:41:06 AM  

ShawnDoc: Lionel Mandrake: I don't think Christians suck infant cock, but then again, I'm not a Christian.

Its only the Catholics who do it. And depending on the denomination of the Christian you ask, Catholics may or may not be considered Christian.


Christianity started with Catholics and wouldn't exist with them. The Orthodox church split off first. It reminds me of people who claim that real America isn't in the cities and states where this country was founded.
 
2012-03-04 09:41:19 AM  

AirForceVet: Why can't we have laws against rabbis using their mouths on a newborn's freshly circumcised penis?

Oh yeah, it'll open another can of worms like making Catholic hospitals provide contraception coverage in their employee insurance policies.

/I'm really tired of religious organizations dictating health care for women and children.
//Wish they'd move up to the 21st Century instead of sticking with the ancient traditions on procreation, women's rights, infectious diseases.


There is a difference from make one do something and stopping one from doing something.
 
2012-03-04 09:41:46 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: buckler: dezba: I'm an atheist, my son is circumsized and I don't feel guilty about it. I'M A MONSTER!

My parents decided to cut me. I suppose it's nice having a smegma-free life, but I have to wonder if the sex might have been more fun.

You have no way of knowing, so whats the difference?


Having no choice in a matter doesn't make it the right choice. Not in the least.

That said, lack of foreskin isn't the end of sex. far from it. Personally, though, I have trouble finishing in a reasonable time.
 
2012-03-04 09:43:56 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Religion is a mental illness. Circumcision is mutilation. Put 'em both together, and this is what happens.


It's not all that cut and dry........
 
2012-03-04 09:43:59 AM  
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-03-04 09:44:14 AM  
Yeah, the Jews abandoned some traditions for a reason. Leave it to the Jewish version of Fred Phelps to not only dig them up, but kill babies with them.

/circumcision is one of the best ways to ensure children survive to adulthood
//circumcision combined with a baby blowjob, however, is not
 
2012-03-04 09:45:12 AM  

SkunkWerks: Mister Peejay: I'm just shocked that herpes can be fatal. I thought it was more of one of those really annoying nuisance diseases.

A lot of things that aren't normally fatal can be fatal to infants, and the elderly, for that matter.

Sadly, the moment you point this out to the ultra-orthodox, they're going to retreat to the "it was God's will" stance and the "you're discriminating against my religion" talking point.


I prefer being called Haredi over ultra-orthodox. We are not ultra anything. What we practice is normative Judaism. TYVM

As to it being G-d's will. We have free will, and aren't in much of a position to discern what G-d "wants."

As to the point of discrimination, read this entire thread from the point of view of a religious Jew, and tell me if you think everyone calling for and end to religion isn't all for discriminating against things they don't care for.
 
2012-03-04 09:46:10 AM  
Bleh. Disgusting. Shouldn't have read this while eating bacon.
 
2012-03-04 09:46:43 AM  

octopied: coco ebert: Under the practice, the rabbi or mohel removes blood from the wound with his mouth - a practice city health officials have criticized, saying it carried "inherent risks" for babies.

:O

which holy book says that it's fine to lick the blood off of someone else body?


Satan's!!!
 
2012-03-04 09:48:18 AM  
Well, if the baby wasn't circumcised he would have died of AIDS anyway in adulthood.

Everyone knows uncircumcised people always die of some venerial disease. Duh.
 
2012-03-04 09:49:11 AM  

KimNorth: octopied: coco ebert: Under the practice, the rabbi or mohel removes blood from the wound with his mouth - a practice city health officials have criticized, saying it carried "inherent risks" for babies.

:O

which holy book says that it's fine to lick the blood off of someone else body?

Satan's!!!


dstecca.files.wordpress.com

:-*
 
2012-03-04 09:50:05 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Yeah, the Jews abandoned some traditions for a reason. Leave it to the Jewish version of Fred Phelps to not only dig them up, but kill babies with them.

/circumcision is one of the best ways to ensure children survive to adulthood
//circumcision combined with a baby blowjob, however, is not



We didn't abandon anything. Orthodox Judaism is (by nature of what orthodoxy is) unchanged.

And bringing up the Phelps.....makes me think you're trolling.
 
2012-03-04 09:50:19 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Yeah, the Jews abandoned some traditions for a reason. Leave it to the Jewish version of Fred Phelps to not only dig them up, but kill babies with them.

/circumcision is one of the best ways to ensure children survive to adulthood



Why? Is there a commandment that uncircumcised kids be stoned to death?
 
2012-03-04 09:50:50 AM  

apachevoyeur: dezba: I'm an atheist, my son is circumsized and I don't feel guilty about it. I'M A MONSTER!

You're not a monster. Unless you are building jewelry from foreskin... That would be kinda sick.

I assume you had it done either because you didn't want him to stand out in the boys locker room or concern about infections for potential female partners?

I didn't have my boys circumcised but these thoughts crossed my mind. In the end I just decided that if they evolved to have foreskin, I'd let that ride.


I didn't feel too strongly on the issue either way, even after poring over anti-circ websites so I left the decision up to my husband.

I figure if my son's circumcision is the worst thing to ever happen to him over the course of his life he's in pretty good shape.
 
2012-03-04 09:50:55 AM  

buckler: dezba: I'm an atheist, my son is circumsized and I don't feel guilty about it. I'M A MONSTER!

My parents decided to cut me. I suppose it's nice having a smegma-free life,


da fuq? Why, do you live in desert somewhere alongside other superstitious goat farkers, with no access to water and soap?
 
2012-03-04 09:50:57 AM  
In 2004, three infants circumcised by Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer were determined to have contracted herpes, city officials said.

When I'm doing rotations, women who are due with girls are asked "if the baby, for some reason, happens to be a boy, do you want a circumc.....?" they reply with no thought, almost like a reflex "YES!" before the question can even be finished.
 
2012-03-04 09:55:09 AM  
You know who else thought orthodox Jews were pedophiliac cocksuckers?
 
2012-03-04 09:55:25 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: What we practice is normative Judaism. TYVM


Then you're not ultra-orthadox and this post isn't about you. Thanks for responding, but no real need to get offended, either.

Diogenes The Cynic: As to it being G-d's will. We have free will, and aren't in much of a position to discern what G-d "wants."


Well, you're preaching to the choir here, but it is usually the excuse you hear from faith healers and other ilk who are, however "unintentionally" complicit in causing the death of the people they're supposedly trying to help.

God wanted it to happen, so that makes it okay.

Pretty lame if you ask me. God made you with a brain to think and reason. There's an equally good case to be made here for him "wanting" you to realize what an incredibly bad idea a bloody baby blowjob is. Or perhaps to realize that administering antibiotics to a child with pneumonia is a good idea.

Diogenes The Cynic: As to the point of discrimination, read this entire thread from the point of view of a religious Jew, and tell me if you think everyone calling for and end to religion isn't all for discriminating against things they don't care for.


As a person who is not among the people you're talking about, I can't really take much issue with this.

It is discriminating to call for an end to all religion. Can't say I'd be too displeased with such a thing, but for me it's more of a practical impossibility and therefore a senseless pie-in-the-sky sort of wish.

And I'll leave wish-fulfillment to those who believe in such things.

In the meantime, I don't think Religion is harmful- in most cases. Then again in most cases you won't see religion eschewing important lifesaving knowledge to pursue some totally ridiculous tradition.


Personally, I'd have to say the best rule of thumb here was written by a Religious guy, ironically enough. More ironically still, said religious guy was a self-avowed Satanist.

As it Harm None, Do as Thou Wilt.
 
2012-03-04 09:58:03 AM  
Nope...I guessed it.
 
2012-03-04 09:58:19 AM  

Dadoody: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 518x740]


So are you a moron trying to advocate for that, or a moron trying to implicate others with it? Poe's law strikes again.
 
2012-03-04 09:58:52 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: We didn't abandon anything. Orthodox Judaism is (by nature of what orthodoxy is) unchanged.


since when? it's obviously changed a great deal since biblical times, otherwise the talmud would be considered as heretical as the teachings of jesus or muhammad.

it's also clear that there are vast differences between jews from different parts of the world. there is some common ground; circumcision is definitely one thing which is shared by all the jews.
 
2012-03-04 09:59:44 AM  
He got it from being raped by a Catholic priest, right?
 
2012-03-04 10:00:03 AM  

SkunkWerks:
A lot of things that aren't normally fatal can be fatal to infants, and the elderly, for that matter.

Sadly, the moment you point this out to the ultra-orthodox, they're going to retreat to the "it was God's will" stance and the "you're discriminating against my religion" talking point.


Well, to be fair, it's possible that the reason why they stop being fatal is because the immune system gets a chance to strengthen.

Being encased in a bubble until you're 6 years old can't be very good either, you know?

/hell, everything's fatal. Nature wants you dead.
 
2012-03-04 10:00:25 AM  
This is what Paul was getting at when he said "the real circumcision is of the heart." Slicing up your baby's heart at birth kills him much more efficiently than slow death by herpies.
 
2012-03-04 10:00:32 AM  
Serious question:

If an uncircumcised ADULT male wanted to CONVERT to Orthodox Judaism, and went through all of the necessary and required preparations - (study, commandments, observances, etc) he would have to be circumcised to complete the conversion, would he not?

Would the mohel suck the wound on the adult male like he did on the child?

If not, why not?
 
2012-03-04 10:03:07 AM  

CrispFlows: uttertosh: HA!!! So letrole is your alt!! Nice of you to tip your hand.

/has no idea what he lost by responding.


I don't think so. Responding to trolls are one of the measures of trolling, that if they respond specifically to their post, it counts as a bite.

/ Unless if you're trolling, then kudos, you got me ;)


If you read my post, you'd see...
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2012-03-04 10:04:55 AM  
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/freak_show/index.jhtml
The episode where Primi gets snipped tells the real reason behind circumcision.
 
2012-03-04 10:06:13 AM  
So sexually assaulting an infant is OK as long as you're a rabbi? Watch the Catholic church try to turn kid abuse into canon.

Is there anything more despicable and dangerous to children than religion?
 
2012-03-04 10:06:55 AM  

Mister Peejay: Well, to be fair, it's possible that the reason why they stop being fatal is because the immune system gets a chance to strengthen.


Not "possible", that is precisely the reason.

The elderly have a badly weakened immune system in many cases. Infants haven't had much of an opportunity to develop an immune system, on the other end of that spectrum.

The ailment they call "shingles" in the elderly is cause by the same virus that causes Chicken Pox. Once contracted, as you may know, this virus remains with you for the rest of your life. But it never goes symptomatic or gains much of a foothold against a healthy immune system.

Hence you live through an episode of it as a child, and if you're somewhat unlucky, may experience it again in your golden years.
 
2012-03-04 10:06:55 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Yeah, the Jews abandoned some traditions for a reason. Leave it to the Jewish version of Fred Phelps to not only dig them up, but kill babies with them.

/circumcision is one of the best ways to ensure children survive to adulthood


The doctor I asked when my son was born differs. Specifically asked him, "is there any medical reason to circumcise?" Didn't hesitate in answering "no."
 
2012-03-04 10:07:11 AM  
Circumcision and kosher/halal are two disgusting practices that I am offended are protected by freedom of religion. Animal and child rights should come miles ahead of your right to practice cult rituals in a secular society.
 
2012-03-04 10:07:35 AM  

proteus_b: Diogenes The Cynic: We didn't abandon anything. Orthodox Judaism is (by nature of what orthodoxy is) unchanged.

since when? it's obviously changed a great deal since biblical times, otherwise the talmud would be considered as heretical as the teachings of jesus or muhammad.

it's also clear that there are vast differences between jews from different parts of the world. there is some common ground; circumcision is definitely one thing which is shared by all the jews.


Ok, concrete examples.

Name them.
 
2012-03-04 10:10:47 AM  
My wife wanted to have a naming ceremony for our newborn son. At my insistence, he'd been circumcised at the hospital. The rabbi said that was okay, but he'd prick my son's penis with a pin since he couldn't be circumcised.

I told the rabbi, in front of my wife and her family, that there was no way in hell that he was going to do that. That no religion is worth suffering for. Ever.
 
2012-03-04 10:10:53 AM  

Amos Quito: Serious question:

If an uncircumcised ADULT male wanted to CONVERT to Orthodox Judaism, and went through all of the necessary and required preparations - (study, commandments, observances, etc) he would have to be circumcised to complete the conversion, would he not?

Would the mohel suck the wound on the adult male like he did on the child?

If not, why not?


1.Yes
2. I don't know. I doubt the practice is necessary at all. There have been times when I've seen it, and times when I haven't.
 
2012-03-04 10:11:01 AM  
Maybe this kind of thing is why people believed the bood libel. That's weird.
 
2012-03-04 10:12:12 AM  

Digital Communist: Circumcision and kosher/halal are two disgusting practices that I am offended are protected by freedom of religion. Animal and child rights should come miles ahead of your right to practice cult rituals in a secular society.


So, freedom of religion is only of things you're ok with? Uh-huh.
 
2012-03-04 10:14:42 AM  

coco ebert: Under the practice, the rabbi or mohel removes blood from the wound with his mouth - a practice city health officials have criticized, saying it carried "inherent risks" for babies.

:O


Sooo if this were'nt being performed by a rabbi as a religous ritual, it would child molestation. Am I correct?
 
2012-03-04 10:16:27 AM  
Sounds like it should be a manslaughter charge against the Rabbi.
 
2012-03-04 10:16:31 AM  
Every few years this happens. It's God saying, "We have indoor water and can keep our foreskins clean now, so stop chopping them off."

If you need to prove your devotion to God, chop up your own body, not your kid's.
 
2012-03-04 10:16:47 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-03-04 10:17:24 AM  
Another popular method

www.homedepot.com
 
2012-03-04 10:17:24 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: Amos Quito: Serious question:

If an uncircumcised ADULT male wanted to CONVERT to Orthodox Judaism, and went through all of the necessary and required preparations - (study, commandments, observances, etc) he would have to be circumcised to complete the conversion, would he not?

Would the mohel suck the wound on the adult male like he did on the child?

If not, why not?

1.Yes



May explain how he caught the herpes that he transmitted to the baby.


/Thanks for answering
 
2012-03-04 10:18:26 AM  

roothog: Sounds like it should be a manslaughter charge against the Rabbi.


I agree. The Freedom of Religion does not protect the offense of another person's freedoms.
 
2012-03-04 10:21:04 AM  
Summon the ghost of Hitchens to haunt this guy's ass.
 
2012-03-04 10:22:04 AM  

trentrockport: My wife wanted to have a naming ceremony for our newborn son. At my insistence, he'd been circumcised at the hospital. The rabbi said that was okay, but he'd prick my son's penis with a pin since he couldn't be circumcised.

I told the rabbi, in front of my wife and her family, that there was no way in hell that he was going to do that. That no religion is worth suffering for. Ever.


I think you need to get a grip. Reformed Jews do not require a full circumcision in the bris anymore. just a little prick on the prick, if that's what the parents want. It's no big deal and doesn't hurt the child. If you can't respect your wife's religious beliefs, you're doing her a disservice. I find it interesting that you insisted on a full medical circumcision, but have a problem with a tiny pin prick. Inconsistency: it's what's for life.
 
2012-03-04 10:22:20 AM  

AirForceVet: Why can't we have laws against rabbis using their mouths on a newborn's freshly circumcised penis?


Because the ultra-orthodox vote in a bloc more reliably than just about anybody.

Here in NY, everybody from Hillary Clinton to Bloomberg to Carl Paladino has (you'll pardon the expression in this context) sucked up to them...right on up to the current governor.

Yes, the Obama campaign did as well in '08.

It's part of the trifecta candidates have to endure when they swing through New York: kiss Al Sharpton's ring, bung-lick the ultra-orthodox, fawn over the cardinal.

But it's okay when your guy does it.
 
2012-03-04 10:22:35 AM  
What. The. Fark?
 
2012-03-04 10:25:29 AM  
Ew. Ew. Ew.
 
2012-03-04 10:25:56 AM  

namatad: do you know what would solve these problems? banning religion

/sigh - delusion is such a wonderful thing


What an amazing idea... I'm sure that's exactly what the founding fathers had in mind when they drafted the Constitution.... Wait a tic. Someone's telling me that religious freedom is what they intended... Yeah right... Whatevah.

Because every society that has ever banned religion never has any problems... I know, the USSR, and Pol Pot's regime= totally awesome. Who could argue with that?

And finally, if you can find out where in the Hebrew bible God says "suck it" (besides Sodom and Gomorrah) then you might begin to have a point (but probably not even then). The Talmudic tradition was passed on orally (pun semi-intended). Just because some practice is sanctioned by religious leaders doesn't mean it's sanctioned by God. (lookit televangelists).

Do I think the rabbi being brought up on charges of neglect and involuntary manslaughter? Hell yeah.
Is it too much to ask that people think before they post? Yeah... I know it is.
Would I like to get paid to write for MAD Magazine? Yep... I think I would.
If I see idiocy, will I point and say "...idiot" ? Yeah... I think I will.

In conclusion: It's almost a free country, you can say what you want, but don't expect me not to make fun of it.
 
2012-03-04 10:27:26 AM  
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... what the fark?
 
2012-03-04 10:27:38 AM  

badhatharry: Maybe this kind of thing is why people believed the bood libel. That's weird.


I was thinking the same thing. Somebody blew a misunderstood/offensive practice way out of hand into absurdity. Kind of like whatever really was happening with the little kids being purified by fire to Moloch urban legends.

I wonder how many months it will take for this to reach the same meme-tastic put-down as pedophile Catholic priests and polygamist Mormon baptisers (yeah, yeah, I know: "never.")
 
2012-03-04 10:28:29 AM  

JackieRabbit: I think you need to get a grip. Reformed Jews do not require a full circumcision in the bris anymore. just a little prick on the prick, if that's what the parents want. It's no big deal and doesn't hurt the child.


Fun fact: your brain retains a memory/record of the pain of something even if you can't recall it consciously yourself. This works if you're a baby (i.e. too young to remember) or even if you were under anesthesia (i.e. too sedated to remember).


That said, speak for yourself.

I hate needles, partly because they DO hurt, but mostly because the idea of letting a near-stranger jam a half inch of surgical steel under my skin is a pretty uncomfortable thought.
 
2012-03-04 10:31:10 AM  

Hetfield: Here'shiatchens


Shiatchens. That's awesome.
 
2012-03-04 10:31:14 AM  

JackieRabbit: trentrockport: My wife wanted to have a naming ceremony for our newborn son. At my insistence, he'd been circumcised at the hospital. The rabbi said that was okay, but he'd prick my son's penis with a pin since he couldn't be circumcised.

I told the rabbi, in front of my wife and her family, that there was no way in hell that he was going to do that. That no religion is worth suffering for. Ever.

I think you need to get a grip. Reformed Jews do not require a full circumcision in the bris anymore. just a little prick on the prick, if that's what the parents want. It's no big deal and doesn't hurt the child. If you can't respect your wife's religious beliefs, you're doing her a disservice. I find it interesting that you insisted on a full medical circumcision, but have a problem with a tiny pin prick. Inconsistency: it's what's for life.


No matter what, Someome has to get a grip... On baby dick.
 
2012-03-04 10:31:55 AM  
Any religion that even requests that I let some old man chop off a piece of my son's dick and then suck on the stump is nothing that I want to be a part of, thanks.
 
2012-03-04 10:33:58 AM  
I gotta admit, I had no clue about said religious ritual. That being said, I now have zero sympathy for jewish anything. What an absolutely retarded ritual. If any grown man were to try to put his mouth on my sons pecker he would hit the floor as a oozing sack of meat with 9 holes in him.

Yet another religion I have zero tolerance for now. Is there any list that will break down religions and their practices that are "uncivilized". See, this is an uncivilized practice. That's why the baby died. This is not something civilized people would do. People who want our race (i mean humans) to seek enlightenment and betterment will not participate in stupid shiat like this. Fark these idiotic farkwads in their collective asses if they think this is necessary.

REAP IT DUMBASS CAVEPEOPLE!
 
2012-03-04 10:34:57 AM  

AbbeySomeone: Mugato: "Hey rabbi, try not to suck any dick on your way through the synagogue."

[johnnycat.files.wordpress.com image 320x237]

Ha!
I wonder how they train for this task?


vienna sausages.
 
2012-03-04 10:36:03 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: badhatharry: Maybe this kind of thing is why people believed the bood libel. That's weird.

I was thinking the same thing. Somebody blew a misunderstood/offensive practice way out of hand into absurdity. Kind of like whatever really was happening with the little kids being purified by fire to Moloch urban legends.

I wonder how many months it will take for this to reach the same meme-tastic put-down as pedophile Catholic priests and polygamist Mormon baptisers (yeah, yeah, I know: "never.")


You can imagine an outsider observing this ritual and misunderstanding WTF is going on. Then going and telling all his neighbors what the Jews are doing.
 
2012-03-04 10:36:08 AM  
Suck it, Gus.
 
2012-03-04 10:36:17 AM  

JackieRabbit: trentrockport: My wife wanted to have a naming ceremony for our newborn son. At my insistence, he'd been circumcised at the hospital. The rabbi said that was okay, but he'd prick my son's penis with a pin since he couldn't be circumcised.

I told the rabbi, in front of my wife and her family, that there was no way in hell that he was going to do that. That no religion is worth suffering for. Ever.

I think you need to get a grip. Reformed Jews do not require a full circumcision in the bris anymore. just a little prick on the prick, if that's what the parents want. It's no big deal and doesn't hurt the child. If you can't respect your wife's religious beliefs, you're doing her a disservice. I find it interesting that you insisted on a full medical circumcision, but have a problem with a tiny pin prick. Inconsistency: it's what's for life.


How do you know it doesn't hurt the child? There really is literature out there saying that children don't have a developed nervous system?

Sorry, dude, the wife and the rabbi sound like they're putting the letter over the spirit.

The kid is already circumsized. Do the rest of the ritual. There is no need whatsoever for additional blood letting. The physical part of the covenant was already made with your god. The rabbi can do the spiritual part.

Unless the only part that really matters is the pain and blood let by the rabbi, then nobody needs to be circumsized at all. Everybody gets their pin prick, and the rest of their prick should be left alone as God intended.

As for respecting religion, that shiat works both ways. Trentrockport acquiesed by having the circumcision done in a sterile (though secular) environment. Now, it's the wife and the rabbi's turn to put in their part of the compromise without additional bloodletting/pain.
 
2012-03-04 10:36:24 AM  

Tatsuma:
Except that it's not "horrendously" painful. They stop crying almost immediately. In the last years, there's barely a month where I don't go to one circumcision. Often, more than once. The baby cries for a few seconds, and it's over. Scarring and infection are quite rare, and I'm not going to go into that 'loss of function' discussion.


maybe you need to read up on what infants do when in shock, hint they pass out

oh look let's get some ACTUAL EXPERTS on neonate pain (new window).
Dr. Adrian Lloyd Thomas, Head of the Accute Pain Service at Great Horman Street Hospital in Toronto, Canada, comments, while watching a video of a neonatal circumcision (1995): "You can see, there, a very definate response from the baby as soon as the forcepts are applied to the foreskin. The baby is holding his breath, shivering. Infants having an operation may actually experience more pain than adults do having the same procedure, and the reason for this is that the control mechanisms, particularly in the spinal cord, which are highly developed to damp down and suppress pain in a mature adult nervous system, are not so well developed in the small baby. So, the pain signals travel through uncontrolled, unsuppressed.... I think it would be unwise to draw that conclusion [that the baby stopped crying because the pain was over]. I'd more prefer to think that the experience had been so overwhelming that the baby can't... put up a fight anymore....
 
2012-03-04 10:36:52 AM  

BurnShrike: Tatsuma: I'm not going to go into that 'loss of function' discussion.

How about the "maiming a child who is unable to consent" discussion?

With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.


Yeah, there's never been a single instance of good people doing evil things in the name of their country, their political ideology, animal rights, or even their favorite spots team.

/Sometimes I think Farkers are rational and smart, and then I see a thread where everyone is calling for a forced end to all religion everywhere
 
2012-03-04 10:36:54 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: Ok, concrete examples.

Name them.


wait you want me to name what is shared or what is different? and in regard to what? jewish culture (food, music, dress), or just what prayers are said? your minhag may not be the same as mine.
 
2012-03-04 10:38:23 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: Digital Communist: Circumcision and kosher/halal are two disgusting practices that I am offended are protected by freedom of religion. Animal and child rights should come miles ahead of your right to practice cult rituals in a secular society.

So, freedom of religion is only of things you're ok with? Uh-huh.


That's not what I said at all. Often rights overlap and concessions have to be made by one side. When it comes to genital mutilation and making animals suffer, I think having religious rights trump others was a bad choice.

For any cult rituals that do not infringe on the rights of others I have no comment because it's none of my business.
 
ecl
2012-03-04 10:41:02 AM  
That's some sick sh*t there.
 
2012-03-04 10:41:18 AM  
I heard about this practice a few years ago.

Another institutionalized way for a so called religious leader to get his rocks off. Sucking off an infant while in surgery.

Tell this story to anyone and take out the Jewish references. Any sane person would want the offender to hang. But hey, he's a religious leader and his special friend in the sky tells him that it is ok for him (and only him) to suck blood out of an infant's penis.

Anyone farktarded enough to condone this is an accomplice in sexual assault, sexual mutilation, and murder.
 
2012-03-04 10:41:19 AM  

TehBoognish: I gotta admit, I had no clue about said religious ritual. That being said, I now have zero sympathy for jewish anything. What an absolutely retarded ritual. If any grown man were to try to put his mouth on my sons pecker he would hit the floor as a oozing sack of meat with 9 holes in him.

Yet another religion I have zero tolerance for now. Is there any list that will break down religions and their practices that are "uncivilized". See, this is an uncivilized practice. That's why the baby died. This is not something civilized people would do. People who want our race (i mean humans) to seek enlightenment and betterment will not participate in stupid shiat like this. Fark these idiotic farkwads in their collective asses if they think this is necessary.

REAP IT DUMBASS CAVEPEOPLE!


Eh. Zero tolerance is only acceptable against Catholics. Such is modern life.
 
2012-03-04 10:43:18 AM  
To the people who do support this practice, I wonder if they will support the "religious freedom" of the Mormons to baptize non-Christian graves?
 
2012-03-04 10:43:39 AM  

Amos Quito: Serious question:

If an uncircumcised ADULT male wanted to CONVERT to Orthodox Judaism, and went through all of the necessary and required preparations - (study, commandments, observances, etc) he would have to be circumcised to complete the conversion, would he not?

Would the mohel suck the wound on the adult male like he did on the child?

If not, why not?


That's a question of such potentially theological fuzziness, it'll probably keep sixteen generations of rabbi busy, publishing tractate after tractate so why don't you wait for that ;-)
 
2012-03-04 10:43:51 AM  

Fireproof: BurnShrike: Tatsuma: I'm not going to go into that 'loss of function' discussion.

How about the "maiming a child who is unable to consent" discussion?

With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.

Yeah, there's never been a single instance of good people doing evil things in the name of their country, their political ideology, animal rights, or even their favorite spots team.

/Sometimes I think Farkers are rational and smart, and then I see a thread where everyone is calling for a forced end to all religion everywhere


No, sir. He's saying that, left to themselves, good people will behave as such, bad people will behave as such, but for a good person to behave badly - that takes religion.

Who the fark would let a 'holy man' suck off his own newborn son? A religious one.
 
2012-03-04 10:45:38 AM  

badhatharry: ExperianScaresCthulhu: badhatharry: Maybe this kind of thing is why people believed the bood libel. That's weird.

I was thinking the same thing. Somebody blew a misunderstood/offensive practice way out of hand into absurdity. Kind of like whatever really was happening with the little kids being purified by fire to Moloch urban legends.

I wonder how many months it will take for this to reach the same meme-tastic put-down as pedophile Catholic priests and polygamist Mormon baptisers (yeah, yeah, I know: "never.")

You can imagine an outsider observing this ritual and misunderstanding WTF is going on. Then going and telling all his neighbors what the Jews are doing.


Pretty much. Somebody vomited, but thought the story wasn't bad enough all by itself, so they added all kinds of bullshiat to the telling to make it as outrageously offensive as possible -- when they could have just said the truth, without embellishment.
 
2012-03-04 10:46:20 AM  
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
 
2012-03-04 10:47:14 AM  
So is subby being sarcastic with "You'll never believe"? Because it seems pretty obvious how he caught it.
 
2012-03-04 10:47:38 AM  

MaestroJ: To the people who do support this practice, I wonder if they will support the "religious freedom" of the Mormons to baptize non-Christian graves?


Are you comparing paedophilia and genital mutilation to the posthumous baptism Mormons have been doing? Are you farking serious?

You realize that baptism is just splashing drop of water, right? There is no magic being who cares about your water splashy status when you die.
 
2012-03-04 10:47:41 AM  
Religion should never bring legality to what would otherwise be illegal.
 
2012-03-04 10:47:50 AM  

MaestroJ: To the people who do support this practice, I wonder if they will support the "religious freedom" of the Mormons to baptize non-Christian graves?


as long as i'm still allowed to drink wine at joseph smith's posthumous bar mitzvah that we just held in jerusalem.
 
2012-03-04 10:47:57 AM  

BlaqueKatt: Tatsuma:
Except that it's not "horrendously" painful. They stop crying almost immediately. In the last years, there's barely a month where I don't go to one circumcision. Often, more than once. The baby cries for a few seconds, and it's over. Scarring and infection are quite rare, and I'm not going to go into that 'loss of function' discussion.

maybe you need to read up on what infants do when in shock, hint they pass out

oh look let's get some ACTUAL EXPERTS on neonate pain (new window).
Dr. Adrian Lloyd Thomas, Head of the Accute Pain Service at Great Horman Street Hospital in Toronto, Canada, comments, while watching a video of a neonatal circumcision (1995): "You can see, there, a very definate response from the baby as soon as the forcepts are applied to the foreskin. The baby is holding his breath, shivering. Infants having an operation may actually experience more pain than adults do having the same procedure, and the reason for this is that the control mechanisms, particularly in the spinal cord, which are highly developed to damp down and suppress pain in a mature adult nervous system, are not so well developed in the small baby. So, the pain signals travel through uncontrolled, unsuppressed.... I think it would be unwise to draw that conclusion [that the baby stopped crying because the pain was over]. I'd more prefer to think that the experience had been so overwhelming that the baby can't... put up a fight anymore....


Welcome to Tat's/Mein's ignore list. Coffee on the counter, cookies and punch on the table.
 
2012-03-04 10:49:47 AM  

EvilEgg: ShawnDoc: Lionel Mandrake: I don't think Christians suck infant cock, but then again, I'm not a Christian.

Its only the Catholics who do it. And depending on the denomination of the Christian you ask, Catholics may or may not be considered Christian.

Why wouldn't Catholics be Christians? Aren't they the original ones and all the rest are splinter groups off of them.


No, the Catholic church split from the Eastern Orthodox church (the church started by the Apostles after the Pentacost) in 1054. Catholics have been doing it wrong for a long time, but they're not the original Christian church.

Link (citation)
 
2012-03-04 10:50:40 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Pretty much. Somebody vomited, but thought the story wasn't bad enough all by itself, so they added all kinds of bullshiat to the telling to make it as outrageously offensive as possible -- when they could have just said the truth, without embellishment.


An adult sucks the scab off a baby's freshly mutilated genitalia. Adult has herpes.

Am I missing anything?
 
2012-03-04 10:51:42 AM  

cpalassis: No, the Catholic church split from the Eastern Orthodox church


Splitters! (new window)
 
2012-03-04 10:52:11 AM  

Coming on a Bicycle: Amos Quito: Serious question:

If an uncircumcised ADULT male wanted to CONVERT to Orthodox Judaism, and went through all of the necessary and required preparations - (study, commandments, observances, etc) he would have to be circumcised to complete the conversion, would he not?

Would the mohel suck the wound on the adult male like he did on the child?

If not, why not?

That's a question of such potentially theological fuzziness, it'll probably keep sixteen generations of rabbi busy, publishing tractate after tractate so why don't you wait for that ;-)


Why are you winking? Amos trolling or not, it was a(n unintentionally?) good question that just needed a 'yes' or 'no' answer to shut it down, none of this coy 'I don't know' and 'We don't talk/think about it' shiat that's been going on for the majority of the thread.

I don't know what it means that it didn't get that type of shut down, instead of crap like the attempted 'we don't like you' put downs of Amos, above.
 
2012-03-04 10:55:07 AM  
I really don't miss my foreskin. Sorry you're all so upset about it. You'll get over it.

/or not
 
2012-03-04 10:56:11 AM  

Salt Lick Steady: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Pretty much. Somebody vomited, but thought the story wasn't bad enough all by itself, so they added all kinds of bullshiat to the telling to make it as outrageously offensive as possible -- when they could have just said the truth, without embellishment.

An adult sucks the scab off a baby's freshly mutilated genitalia. Adult has herpes.

Am I missing anything?


I didn't think it had time to scab up. You might be adding "bullshiat" to the story.

I didn't find it disgusting without the scab, but oh man, with the scab, I am so appalled and disgusted.

OUTRAGE!
 
2012-03-04 10:57:23 AM  

Digital Communist: MaestroJ: To the people who do support this practice, I wonder if they will support the "religious freedom" of the Mormons to baptize non-Christian graves?

Are you comparing paedophilia and genital mutilation to the posthumous baptism Mormons have been doing? Are you farking serious?

You realize that baptism is just splashing drop of water, right? There is no magic being who cares about your water splashy status when you die.


I think Maestro's point is that Mormons have had to bear a lot of heat and hatred and scandalization over the baptism of non-Mormons, in particular from Jews who are offended that Jewish Holocaust victims are posthumously baptised...... so does that mean that Jews who were offended have to now shut up over being offended by Mormon practices?

Which, maybe you were getting at yourself, by saying baptism is comparatively nothing in the face of a story like this? I'm not sure. Were you agreeing with Maestro in the end, or disagreeing?

/remembers the days when Mormon baptisms were met with meh here
//but only until Romney had a shot at the nomination
 
2012-03-04 10:58:42 AM  
Religious people problems.
 
2012-03-04 10:59:27 AM  
All I can say is that I'm grateful for being a woman in the US. It's not standard practice here to saw at my genitals after I'm born.
 
2012-03-04 11:00:09 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: //but only until Romney had a shot at the nomination


That would make this phenomenon quad-annual, practically, wouldn't it?
 
2012-03-04 11:00:19 AM  

Tatsuma: Also I have to say, those of you who ascribe sexualized intentions to a medical procedure on a 8 days old toddler have big big problems and I wouldn't let you around my children without supervision.


You're OK with human sacrifice, then, since the intent is religious and not homicidal. Got it.

/very sad to hear that you reproduced
 
2012-03-04 11:00:58 AM  

JackieRabbit: trentrockport: My wife wanted to have a naming ceremony for our newborn son. At my insistence, he'd been circumcised at the hospital. The rabbi said that was okay, but he'd prick my son's penis with a pin since he couldn't be circumcised.

I told the rabbi, in front of my wife and her family, that there was no way in hell that he was going to do that. That no religion is worth suffering for. Ever.

I think you need to get a grip. Reformed Jews do not require a full circumcision in the bris anymore. just a little prick on the prick, if that's what the parents want. It's no big deal and doesn't hurt the child. If you can't respect your wife's religious beliefs, you're doing her a disservice. I find it interesting that you insisted on a full medical circumcision, but have a problem with a tiny pin prick. Inconsistency: it's what's for life.



I don't understand why there would be a need for the rabbi to touch the kids junk at all. You're giving the kid a name so you prick his weiner? WTF?

I prefer the Native American naming ceremony. Sweat Lodge with the elder who's naming you and a feast afterwards. No junk touching at all.
 
2012-03-04 11:02:32 AM  

SkunkWerks: Salt Lick Steady: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Pretty much. Somebody vomited, but thought the story wasn't bad enough all by itself, so they added all kinds of bullshiat to the telling to make it as outrageously offensive as possible -- when they could have just said the truth, without embellishment.

An adult sucks the scab off a baby's freshly mutilated genitalia. Adult has herpes.

Am I missing anything?

I didn't think it had time to scab up. You might be adding "bullshiat" to the story.

I didn't find it disgusting without the scab, but oh man, with the scab, I am so appalled and disgusted.

OUTRAGE!


It usually does have time to scab before the rabbi comes. Because scabs happen.

But here: An adult sucks the freshly mutilated genitalia from a baby boy.

/better?
 
2012-03-04 11:02:51 AM  

Salt Lick Steady: All I can say is that I'm grateful for being a woman in the US. It's not standard practice here to saw at my genitals after I'm born.


Well, this is by and large because- according to the more western patriarchal traditions- you're inherently sinful, lead men to sin, and are pretty much beyond any "help" religion could provide.

Odd how liberating that kind of enmity is, eh?
 
2012-03-04 11:04:33 AM  
Oh great. Now I bet Fartbongo's thugs are going to try to outlaw this ancient religious practice.

War on religion!
 
2012-03-04 11:04:52 AM  

Salt Lick Steady: before the rabbi comes


And the Rabbi CAME too?

Aww hell no, now you really are adding bullshiat to the story.

;)
 
2012-03-04 11:05:49 AM  

JackieRabbit: trentrockport: My wife wanted to have a naming ceremony for our newborn son. At my insistence, he'd been circumcised at the hospital. The rabbi said that was okay, but he'd prick my son's penis with a pin since he couldn't be circumcised.

I told the rabbi, in front of my wife and her family, that there was no way in hell that he was going to do that. That no religion is worth suffering for. Ever.

I think you need to get a grip. Reformed Jews do not require a full circumcision in the bris anymore. just a little prick on the prick, if that's what the parents want. It's no big deal and doesn't hurt the child. If you can't respect your wife's religious beliefs, you're doing her a disservice. I find it interesting that you insisted on a full medical circumcision, but have a problem with a tiny pin prick. Inconsistency: it's what's for life.




But why? Why does a religion require pain to a child? Isn't that kind of stupid and unnecessary?

Just because something is called "tradition", it's not automatically right.
 
2012-03-04 11:06:06 AM  
There's nothing wrong with a cleaner weener.
 
2012-03-04 11:06:09 AM  
Reasons for putting infant penis in your mouth:
Tradition

Reasons for not putting infant penis in your mouth:
Herpes
 
2012-03-04 11:06:42 AM  

Methadone Girls: You're giving the kid a name so you prick his weiner? WTF?


Your name is inextricably tied to your junk?

I know I had my name tattooed on mine so I wouldn't forget it...
 
2012-03-04 11:07:04 AM  

Diogenes The Cynic: G-d told us to do circumcisions. Its plain as day in the Torah.

The how of the practice comes from the Gemara.


popcultureninja.com

"Gemara is really neat! Gemara wants you to cut your meat!"
 
2012-03-04 11:07:19 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Digital Communist: MaestroJ: To the people who do support this practice, I wonder if they will support the "religious freedom" of the Mormons to baptize non-Christian graves?

Are you comparing paedophilia and genital mutilation to the posthumous baptism Mormons have been doing? Are you farking serious?

You realize that baptism is just splashing drop of water, right? There is no magic being who cares about your water splashy status when you die.

I think Maestro's point is that Mormons have had to bear a lot of heat and hatred and scandalization over the baptism of non-Mormons, in particular from Jews who are offended that Jewish Holocaust victims are posthumously baptised...... so does that mean that Jews who were offended have to now shut up over being offended by Mormon practices?

Which, maybe you were getting at yourself, by saying baptism is comparatively nothing in the face of a story like this? I'm not sure. Were you agreeing with Maestro in the end, or disagreeing?

/remembers the days when Mormon baptisms were met with meh here
//but only until Romney had a shot at the nomination


Upon re-reading his post I was agreeing with him. Apologies Maestro.

And yes, I think being outraged over the posthumous baptisms is beyond ridiculous.
 
2012-03-04 11:07:23 AM  

SkunkWerks: Salt Lick Steady: All I can say is that I'm grateful for being a woman in the US. It's not standard practice here to saw at my genitals after I'm born.

Well, this is by and large because- according to the more western patriarchal traditions- you're inherently sinful, lead men to sin, and are pretty much beyond any "help" religion could provide.

Odd how liberating that kind of enmity is, eh?


It's very powerful indeed.
 
2012-03-04 11:07:59 AM  

Lorelle: There's nothing wrong with a cleaner weener.


Unless the religious twerp has the herp.
 
2012-03-04 11:08:30 AM  

tukatz: But why? Why does a religion require pain to a child? Isn't that kind of stupid and unnecessary?


Millions of parents in this country have no problem inflicting religious pain upon their children.

/raised Catholic
 
2012-03-04 11:08:36 AM  

SkunkWerks: Methadone Girls: You're giving the kid a name so you prick his weiner? WTF?

Your name is inextricably tied to your junk?

I know I had my name tattooed on mine so I wouldn't forget it...


Welcome to Jamaica, Have a nice day?
 
2012-03-04 11:09:08 AM  
Circumcision of newborns, by definition, violate all sorts of child abuse laws we have imposed yet everyone looks the other way and adamantly defends it.

California, the biggest nanny-state of them all, even went out of their way to defend the practice.
 
2012-03-04 11:09:37 AM  
"Ah - you want the kid cut. Would you like the scientific version, where the kid feels no pain and is handled in a sterile environment, or would you like the barbaric version, where the kid feels overwhelming pain and is handled in a non-sterile environment?"

That's really what we're saying here, isn't it?
 
2012-03-04 11:09:52 AM  

fightingnewfoundlander: Reasons for putting infant penis in your mouth:
Tradition

Reasons for not putting infant penis in your mouth:
Herpes


Good Idea:
Putting an infant's bleeding penis in your mouth because you're a Rabbi and naming the child.

Bad Idea:
Putting an infant's bleeding penis in your mouth because you're some sort of Pedophile and get off on that kind of thing.


I'll never be able to think of Animaniacs the same way again...
 
2012-03-04 11:10:11 AM  
farm3.static.flickr.com
 
2012-03-04 11:10:38 AM  

SkunkWerks: Salt Lick Steady: before the rabbi comes

And the Rabbi CAME too?

Aww hell no, now you really are adding bullshiat to the story.

;)


Ok, I lulzed a bit

/rabbis don't have orgasms
 
2012-03-04 11:12:28 AM  

SkunkWerks: fightingnewfoundlander: Reasons for putting infant penis in your mouth:
Tradition

Reasons for not putting infant penis in your mouth:
Herpes

Good Idea:
Putting an infant's bleeding penis in your mouth because you're a Rabbi and naming the child.

Bad Idea:
Putting an infant's bleeding penis in your mouth because you're some sort of Pedophile and get off on that kind of thing.


I'll never be able to think of Animaniacs the same way again...


And with this one I actually snorted and can't stop laughing
 
2012-03-04 11:13:50 AM  

Lorelle: tukatz: But why? Why does a religion require pain to a child? Isn't that kind of stupid and unnecessary?

Millions of parents in this country have no problem inflicting religious pain upon their children.

/raised Catholic




As was I. Which is why I am not anymore.

Religions now seem like covers for crazy and illegal stuff. If there is a higher being in charge of us all, it would be truly ashamed by our ignorance and stupidity... as has been demonstrated by our religious customs.
 
2012-03-04 11:16:01 AM  

Digital Communist: MaestroJ: To the people who do support this practice, I wonder if they will support the "religious freedom" of the Mormons to baptize non-Christian graves?

Are you comparing paedophilia and genital mutilation to the posthumous baptism Mormons have been doing? Are you farking serious?

You realize that baptism is just splashing drop of water, right? There is no magic being who cares about your water splashy status when you die.


I can't tell if your comment is trolling. No, there was never a comparison actually. I just found it strange that there was so much outrage at the posthumous baptisms, yet some of the same people support a practice such as this which is a far graver crime (no pun intended) against human rights.

It's the hypocrisy I'm noting, this idea of "It's okay if WE trample on another's human rights first, because we're correct."
 
2012-03-04 11:16:46 AM  
What a cocksucker!
 
2012-03-04 11:17:33 AM  

Salt Lick Steady: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Pretty much. Somebody vomited, but thought the story wasn't bad enough all by itself, so they added all kinds of bullshiat to the telling to make it as outrageously offensive as possible -- when they could have just said the truth, without embellishment.

An adult sucks the scab off a baby's freshly mutilated genitalia. Adult has herpes.

Am I missing anything?


We were speculating on how a private ritual involving a a group of people surrounding a rabbi cutting and sucking the blood of a baby's penis became OMG! The Jews sacrifice babies to drink their blood.
 
2012-03-04 11:18:18 AM  

clipperbox: [farm3.static.flickr.com image 320x480]


I may be against circumcision, but I thought that "comic" was one of the most bizarre and insane things I've ever seen. I'm highly annoyed that those people don't realize the negative impact they're having on a cause.
 
2012-03-04 11:20:17 AM  

tukatz: Lorelle: tukatz: But why? Why does a religion require pain to a child? Isn't that kind of stupid and unnecessary?

Millions of parents in this country have no problem inflicting religious pain upon their children.

/raised Catholic



As was I. Which is why I am not anymore.

Religions now seem like covers for crazy and illegal stuff. If there is a higher being in charge of us all, it would be truly ashamed by our ignorance and stupidity... as has been demonstrated by our religious customs.


Barbaric practices like the one in question as well as catholic priests diddling kids and hundreds of others are not new and have been going on non-stop for centuries. The fact that they are now being questioned is good and it shows that society tolerates them less and less.

Every generation has fewer religious adherents in the west and hopefully soon we will have true freedom from religion and not just freedom of religion.
 
2012-03-04 11:21:10 AM  

badhatharry: Salt Lick Steady: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Pretty much. Somebody vomited, but thought the story wasn't bad enough all by itself, so they added all kinds of bullshiat to the telling to make it as outrageously offensive as possible -- when they could have just said the truth, without embellishment.

An adult sucks the scab off a baby's freshly mutilated genitalia. Adult has herpes.

Am I missing anything?

We were speculating on how a private ritual involving a a group of people surrounding a rabbi cutting and sucking the blood of a baby's penis became OMG! The Jews sacrifice babies to drink their blood.


It became that? I don't think it has. Could it become that? Yeah, maybe.

I still think the part where you were "speculating" that somehow the "unaltered story of the practice" wasn't disgusting and appalling in any way on it's own was pretty funny.


You know... Assuming you were attempting to be humorous, and not sociopathic, that is.
 
2012-03-04 11:22:03 AM  

badhatharry: Salt Lick Steady: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Pretty much. Somebody vomited, but thought the story wasn't bad enough all by itself, so they added all kinds of bullshiat to the telling to make it as outrageously offensive as possible -- when they could have just said the truth, without embellishment.

An adult sucks the scab off a baby's freshly mutilated genitalia. Adult has herpes.

Am I missing anything?

We were speculating on how a private ritual involving a a group of people surrounding a rabbi cutting and sucking the blood of a baby's penis became OMG! The Jews sacrifice babies to drink their blood.


Ah ok. Now I remember why I hate jews.
 
2012-03-04 11:22:09 AM  
I never understood this. The Torah has no suction instructions. Just that circumcision be done. The Talmud which is only used by the orthodox says suction and prmits you to use straws.

NEVER EVER EVER does it say to put your mouth on his dick.

And I gotta say, since it's bleeding and you would be taking blood into your mouth, it violates the Torah's command to eat no blood.
 
2012-03-04 11:22:16 AM  

MaestroJ: Digital Communist: MaestroJ: To the people who do support this practice, I wonder if they will support the "religious freedom" of the Mormons to baptize non-Christian graves?

Are you comparing paedophilia and genital mutilation to the posthumous baptism Mormons have been doing? Are you farking serious?

You realize that baptism is just splashing drop of water, right? There is no magic being who cares about your water splashy status when you die.

I can't tell if your comment is trolling. No, there was never a comparison actually. I just found it strange that there was so much outrage at the posthumous baptisms, yet some of the same people support a practice such as this which is a far graver crime (no pun intended) against human rights.

It's the hypocrisy I'm noting, this idea of "It's okay if WE trample on another's human rights first, because we're correct."


I misread your post. ExperianScaresCthulhu corrected me already and I apologized up thread.
 
2012-03-04 11:22:50 AM  
Okay, I'm pretty open to different religions (in fact, my girlfriend is Jewish and said this rabbi should probably be shot), but now that at least some of the initial shock has worn off, I'm wondering just how this whole practice got started in the first place. Most Jewish laws are structured to avoid contact with bodily fluids... kosher laws, forbidding contact with menstrual blood, male emissions being named unclean, etc. You can't prepare meat with the blood still in it in a kosher kitchen, so why in the hell would this be allowed?

It seems as if most "mainstream" Jews don't know about the practice either. For those of you in this thread throwing all of Judaism under the bus for this, you may want to rethink that.
 
2012-03-04 11:23:10 AM  

Salt Lick Steady: Ah ok. Now I remember why I hate jews.


is it because the gentile mind is only able to comprehend simple concepts like "i shiat my pants" and "i hate jews"?
 
2012-03-04 11:26:32 AM  

proteus_b: Salt Lick Steady: Ah ok. Now I remember why I hate jews.

is it because the gentile mind is only able to comprehend simple concepts like "i shiat my pants" and "i hate jews"?


Did I say "jews"? I meant to say juice!

/What the fark is juice?
//I like drink
 
2012-03-04 11:26:51 AM  
BlaqueKatt: Tatsuma:
Except that it's not "horrendously" painful. They stop crying almost immediately. In the last years, there's barely a month where I don't go to one circumcision. Often, more than once. The baby cries for a few seconds, and it's over. Scarring and infection are quite rare, and I'm not going to go into that 'loss of function' discussion.

maybe you need to read up on what infants do when in shock, hint they pass out

oh look let's get some ACTUAL EXPERTS on neonate pain (new window).
Dr. Adrian Lloyd Thomas, Head of the Accute Pain Service at Great Horman Street Hospital in Toronto, Canada, comments, while watching a video of a neonatal circumcision (1995): "You can see, there, a very definate response from the baby as soon as the forcepts are applied to the foreskin. The baby is holding his breath, shivering. Infants having an operation may actually experience more pain than adults do having the same procedure, and the reason for this is that the control mechanisms, particularly in the spinal cord, which are highly developed to damp down and suppress pain in a mature adult nervous system, are not so well developed in the small baby. So, the pain signals travel through uncontrolled, unsuppressed.... I think it would be unwise to draw that conclusion [that the baby stopped crying because the pain was over]. I'd more prefer to think that the experience had been so overwhelming that the baby can't... put up a fight anymore....


I posted the position statements of the AAP and American Society of Pain Control Nurses earlier in this thread. They must be anti-semetic.
 
2012-03-04 11:27:18 AM  

Digital Communist: MaestroJ: Digital Communist: MaestroJ: To the people who do support this practice, I wonder if they will support the "religious freedom" of the Mormons to baptize non-Christian graves?

Are you comparing paedophilia and genital mutilation to the posthumous baptism Mormons have been doing? Are you farking serious?

You realize that baptism is just splashing drop of water, right? There is no magic being who cares about your water splashy status when you die.

I can't tell if your comment is trolling. No, there was never a comparison actually. I just found it strange that there was so much outrage at the posthumous baptisms, yet some of the same people support a practice such as this which is a far graver crime (no pun intended) against human rights.

It's the hypocrisy I'm noting, this idea of "It's okay if WE trample on another's human rights first, because we're correct."

I misread your post. ExperianScaresCthulhu corrected me already and I apologized up thread.


I missed that post, then. All is well.
 
2012-03-04 11:27:44 AM  

Digital Communist: And yes, I think being outraged over the posthumous baptisms is beyond ridiculous.


Actually no.

People who are well known (with some exceptions for elected officials) have a right of publicity and control of the use of their own name and likeness. That right carries on to their estate and heirs. There was a case a decade or two ago about an advertiser using cgi and composting to make it appear that a long-dead actor was endorsing their product. The estate sued and took them to the cleaners, if memory serves.

The Three Stooges are long dead, but I don't think you'll find any Halloween masks with their likeness. Last I heard, the estates of the relevant stooges were still asserting their rights and not licensing such. Mormons doing BS is advertising that's almost as offensive as and somewhat analogous to what Phelps and WBC do.
 
2012-03-04 11:28:05 AM  
I didn't have my sons cut. Some people look at me with disbelief when this comes up in conversation (with moms, *everything* is discussed...). I honestly don't get it. There's no reason at all to have this done. There are justifications, but that's not the same thing. There's soap, now. So put away the little tiny knife. Girls get circumcised for religious reasons, too; doesn't make it right or reasonable.
 
2012-03-04 11:28:46 AM  

proteus_b: Salt Lick Steady: Ah ok. Now I remember why I hate jews.

is it because the gentile mind is only able to comprehend simple concepts like "i shiat my pants" and "i hate jews"?


And no, in seriousness, we know other concepts. Like, you know, usury and interest and Palestine.
 
2012-03-04 11:31:28 AM  

Aracnix: I didn't have my sons cut. Some people look at me with disbelief when this comes up in conversation (with moms, *everything* is discussed...). I honestly don't get it. There's no reason at all to have this done. There are justifications, but that's not the same thing. There's soap, now. So put away the little tiny knife. Girls get circumcised for religious reasons, too; doesn't make it right or reasonable.


It also doesn't make it remotely the same thing.

Not that I disagree with you in essence, just a technical nitpick...


...a technical nitpick that suddenly seems a LOT less technical when it's the head of your penis we're talking about chopping off.

Anatomy. How does that work?
 
2012-03-04 11:32:39 AM  

SkunkWerks: badhatharry: Salt Lick Steady: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Pretty much. Somebody vomited, but thought the story wasn't bad enough all by itself, so they added all kinds of bullshiat to the telling to make it as outrageously offensive as possible -- when they could have just said the truth, without embellishment.

An adult sucks the scab off a baby's freshly mutilated genitalia. Adult has herpes.

Am I missing anything?

We were speculating on how a private ritual involving a a group of people surrounding a rabbi cutting and sucking the blood of a baby's penis became OMG! The Jews sacrifice babies to drink their blood.

It became that? I don't think it has. Could it become that? Yeah, maybe.

I still think the part where you were "speculating" that somehow the "unaltered story of the practice" wasn't disgusting and appalling in any way on it's own was pretty funny.


You know... Assuming you were attempting to be humorous, and not sociopathic, that is.


You have must not have heard of blood libel Link (new window)
 
2012-03-04 11:32:59 AM  
i1121.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-04 11:34:00 AM  

SkunkWerks: Aracnix: I didn't have my sons cut. Some people look at me with disbelief when this comes up in conversation (with moms, *everything* is discussed...). I honestly don't get it. There's no reason at all to have this done. There are justifications, but that's not the same thing. There's soap, now. So put away the little tiny knife. Girls get circumcised for religious reasons, too; doesn't make it right or reasonable.

It also doesn't make it remotely the same thing.

Not that I disagree with you in essence, just a technical nitpick...


...a technical nitpick that suddenly seems a LOT less technical when it's the head of your penis we're talking about chopping off.

Anatomy. How does that work?


Well... it's not technically the head.

/yes, I know, I'm nitpicking about a post about nitpicking.
//male, and cut. I don't see the problem with it.
 
2012-03-04 11:36:12 AM  

badhatharry: SkunkWerks: badhatharry: Salt Lick Steady: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Pretty much. Somebody vomited, but thought the story wasn't bad enough all by itself, so they added all kinds of bullshiat to the telling to make it as outrageously offensive as possible -- when they could have just said the truth, without embellishment.

An adult sucks the scab off a baby's freshly mutilated genitalia. Adult has herpes.

Am I missing anything?

We were speculating on how a private ritual involving a a group of people surrounding a rabbi cutting and sucking the blood of a baby's penis became OMG! The Jews sacrifice babies to drink their blood.

It became that? I don't think it has. Could it become that? Yeah, maybe.

I still think the part where you were "speculating" that somehow the "unaltered story of the practice" wasn't disgusting and appalling in any way on it's own was pretty funny.


You know... Assuming you were attempting to be humorous, and not sociopathic, that is.

You have must not have heard of blood libel Link (new window)


You must not have had your bloody infant penis sucked off by a hairy old guy for no reason you could hope to comprehend at that stage in your life (and perhaps not ever).

I am, however, well aware of the many slanders involving patent distortions of reality perpetrated to demonize the Jewish.

I'm also aware that some stories need no embellishment of any kind to sound sufficiently horrifying on their own.
 
2012-03-04 11:38:25 AM  

Marine1: SkunkWerks: Aracnix: I didn't have my sons cut. Some people look at me with disbelief when this comes up in conversation (with moms, *everything* is discussed...). I honestly don't get it. There's no reason at all to have this done. There are justifications, but that's not the same thing. There's soap, now. So put away the little tiny knife. Girls get circumcised for religious reasons, too; doesn't make it right or reasonable.

It also doesn't make it remotely the same thing.

Not that I disagree with you in essence, just a technical nitpick...


...a technical nitpick that suddenly seems a LOT less technical when it's the head of your penis we're talking about chopping off.

Anatomy. How does that work?

Well... it's not technically the head.

/yes, I know, I'm nitpicking about a post about nitpicking.
//male, and cut. I don't see the problem with it.


That depends on how orthodox your parents are.
 
2012-03-04 11:40:38 AM  
All of the "benefits" of circumcision only apply in third-world countries with a limited number of showers.

And there is no benefit to.. to.. this! This is just wrong. I had never heard of this until today. Horrible, disgusting, utterly deplorable.
 
2012-03-04 11:42:29 AM  

SkunkWerks: You must not have had your bloody infant penis sucked off by a hairy old guy for no reason you could hope to comprehend at that stage in your life (and perhaps not ever).


I'm not defending this practice. I'm all for religious freedom but this is not sanitary. Also pretty sure it's not kosher.
 
2012-03-04 11:42:31 AM  
As an atheist who is in a relationship with a circumcised Jew, I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

When his brother's twins were born, we attended the bris. They're not Orthodox, so there was no baby-penis sucking, just your basic foreskin removal and prayers. I don't agree with the practice of baby-penis sucking, neither does the boyfriend, but that doesn't mean we dislike Judaism or all organized religions. We're smart enough to say, "That's farking stupid!" without talking about the whole damn thing. Just like I hate pedophile priests, but I don't hate Catholicism, even though I'm no longer religious.
 
2012-03-04 11:42:33 AM  
Wonderful...now when religious men suck off little boys, it can kill the kid...

Any more examples as to why ALL religions are archaic, barbaric and have no place in a modern society?
 
2012-03-04 11:43:54 AM  

Coco LaFemme: As an atheist who is in a relationship with a circumcised Jew, I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

When his brother's twins were born, we attended the bris. They're not Orthodox, so there was no baby-penis sucking, just your basic foreskin removal and prayers. I don't agree with the practice of baby-penis sucking, neither does the boyfriend, but that doesn't mean we dislike Judaism or all organized religions. We're smart enough to say, "That's farking stupid!" without talking about the whole damn thing. Just like I hate pedophile priests, but I don't hate Catholicism, even though I'm no longer religious.


Thank you.
 
2012-03-04 11:44:33 AM  

badhatharry: I'm not defending this practice. I'm all for religious freedom but this is not sanitary. Also pretty sure it's not kosher.


Are you shiatting me it's not kosher?
 
2012-03-04 11:46:07 AM  

Ow My Balls: When our son was born, the doctor was going down his checklist of usual items in a matter of routine, and got to, "...will you want him circumcised?"

We said, "No."

He stopped dead in his tracks, looked up from his paper into our eyes and said a heartfelt, "Good for you. That's a lot more unusual here in the midwest..."

Not one single problem with son's little member, and there has been no maintenance or anything.


Your kid is going to hate you when he becomes an adult.
 
2012-03-04 11:47:01 AM  

Marine1: Well... it's not technically the head.


Not certain if we're connecting on this point. To be clear, "female circumcision" is a misnomer in the sense that it is portrayed as the analog to what we already know to be male circumcision.

The bit of tissue removed in male circumcision, however, is not even remotely analogous to the tissue cut away during what we've come to call "female circumcision".

To make a far better analogy of this: male circumcision is analogous to "female circumcision" in the same way as amputating your pinky is analogous to lopping your arm off at the elbow.


Proviso #1: We are keep in mind that, yes, both are done to satisfy a superstitious tradition that- in a society with our medical and social advances- is becoming an increasingly baseless practice.

Proviso #2: Regardless of medical and social advances of the last few centuries, female circumcision (as we've come to know it) was NEVER based in anything other than out-and-out misogyny.
 
2012-03-04 11:48:45 AM  

Marine1: Coco LaFemme: As an atheist who is in a relationship with a circumcised Jew, I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

When his brother's twins were born, we attended the bris. They're not Orthodox, so there was no baby-penis sucking, just your basic foreskin removal and prayers. I don't agree with the practice of baby-penis sucking, neither does the boyfriend, but that doesn't mean we dislike Judaism or all organized religions. We're smart enough to say, "That's farking stupid!" without talking about the whole damn thing. Just like I hate pedophile priests, but I don't hate Catholicism, even though I'm no longer religious.

Thank you.


As said before, left to his own devices a good person will act goodly, a bad person will act badly, but for a good person to do harm (saw off his baby's genitalia) - that takes religion.

What was that thank you for? For someone's apology of you?
 
2012-03-04 11:48:48 AM  
SkunkWerks: Proviso #2: Regardless of medical and social advances of the last few centuries, female circumcision (as we've come to know it) was NEVER based in anything other than out-and-out misogyny.

Comparing female circumcision with male circumcision is like comparing a beheading with a haircut.

They are only similar in the way they contain "circumcision" in their description.
 
2012-03-04 11:48:50 AM  

SkunkWerks: Marine1: Well... it's not technically the head.

Not certain if we're connecting on this point. To be clear, "female circumcision" is a misnomer in the sense that it is portrayed as the analog to what we already know to be male circumcision.

The bit of tissue removed in male circumcision, however, is not even remotely analogous to the tissue cut away during what we've come to call "female circumcision".

To make a far better analogy of this: male circumcision is analogous to "female circumcision" in the same way as amputating your pinky is analogous to lopping your arm off at the elbow.


Proviso #1: We are keep in mind that, yes, both are done to satisfy a superstitious tradition that- in a society with our medical and social advances- is becoming an increasingly baseless practice.

Proviso #2: Regardless of medical and social advances of the last few centuries, female circumcision (as we've come to know it) was NEVER based in anything other than out-and-out misogyny.


Ooooooooooooooooh, FEMALE circumcision. I thought you were talking about the male variety.

/it's early.
 
2012-03-04 11:49:53 AM  

HBK: Catholics are the original Christians.


I believe the Copts and the Armenians would have something to say about this.
 
2012-03-04 11:50:14 AM  

bubo_sibiricus: HBK: Catholics are the original Christians.

I believe the Copts and the Armenians would have something to say about this.

 
2012-03-04 11:50:18 AM  
The other thing I learned today is that almost everyone has herpes and herpes can kill you.
 
2012-03-04 11:52:46 AM  

Marine1: SkunkWerks: Marine1: Well... it's not technically the head.

Not certain if we're connecting on this point. To be clear, "female circumcision" is a misnomer in the sense that it is portrayed as the analog to what we already know to be male circumcision.

The bit of tissue removed in male circumcision, however, is not even remotely analogous to the tissue cut away during what we've come to call "female circumcision".

To make a far better analogy of this: male circumcision is analogous to "female circumcision" in the same way as amputating your pinky is analogous to lopping your arm off at the elbow.


Proviso #1: We are keep in mind that, yes, both are done to satisfy a superstitious tradition that- in a society with our medical and social advances- is becoming an increasingly baseless practice.

Proviso #2: Regardless of medical and social advances of the last few centuries, female circumcision (as we've come to know it) was NEVER based in anything other than out-and-out misogyny.

Ooooooooooooooooh, FEMALE circumcision. I thought you were talking about the male variety.

/it's early.


There are versions of male circumcision that go far beyond what you're 'used to.' Because some see the mandate of Abraham to mean more than a little snip, they mean it to keep the kid from ever having physical pleasure in that realm.
 
2012-03-04 11:53:18 AM  

AndreMA: Digital Communist: And yes, I think being outraged over the posthumous baptisms is beyond ridiculous.

Actually no.

People who are well known (with some exceptions for elected officials) have a right of publicity and control of the use of their own name and likeness. That right carries on to their estate and heirs. There was a case a decade or two ago about an advertiser using cgi and composting to make it appear that a long-dead actor was endorsing their product. The estate sued and took them to the cleaners, if memory serves.

The Three Stooges are long dead, but I don't think you'll find any Halloween masks with their likeness. Last I heard, the estates of the relevant stooges were still asserting their rights and not licensing such. Mormons doing BS is advertising that's almost as offensive as and somewhat analogous to what Phelps and WBC do.


If some jews want to invoke likeness rights and get a payday, that is their business. I was led to believe that people were outraged over the act of the baptisms, which is beyond ridiculous.

/ Should I be outraged every time someone in my family says they prayed for me? Because I'm not.
 
2012-03-04 11:53:33 AM  

SkunkWerks: Proviso #2: Regardless of medical and social advances of the last few centuries, female circumcision (as we've come to know it) was NEVER based in anything other than out-and-out misogyny.


That's not entirely true. Here in the United States, clitorectomy was practiced as a medical response to female masturbation. Seriously. Of course, this was the same Victorian medical establishment that prescribed spiked trusses, with the spikes on the inside, bloodletting (to prevent erection), or castration for the same "problem" in men.

It wasn't mere misogyny here in the States - it was wholesale fear of human sexuality, in any form other than that used for procreation, and even that was considered a distasteful, but necessary, chore.
 
2012-03-04 11:54:42 AM  

badhatharry: The other thing I learned today is that almost everyone has herpes and herpes can kill you.


Fox news?
 
2012-03-04 11:55:22 AM  
This thread makes me cross my legs.
 
2012-03-04 11:55:27 AM  

SkunkWerks: male circumcision is analogous to "female circumcision" in the same way as amputating your pinky is analogous to lopping your arm off at the elbow


BOTH should be illegal

If someone lopped off my sons pinky I would be furious and would kill them
If someone lopped off my daughters arm I would be furious and would kill them

People should not be chopping bits off kids, it is barbaric

I grant that an arm is longer than the pinky, but still - quit chopping bits off kids

(as for the parents who let the old dude suck their kids off for god.... I have no words)
 
2012-03-04 11:56:49 AM  

FormlessOne: SkunkWerks: Proviso #2: Regardless of medical and social advances of the last few centuries, female circumcision (as we've come to know it) was NEVER based in anything other than out-and-out misogyny.

That's not entirely true. Here in the United States, clitorectomy was practiced as a medical response to female masturbation. Seriously. Of course, this was the same Victorian medical establishment that prescribed spiked trusses, with the spikes on the inside, bloodletting (to prevent erection), or castration for the same "problem" in men.

It wasn't mere misogyny here in the States - it was wholesale fear of human sexuality, in any form other than that used for procreation, and even that was considered a distasteful, but necessary, chore.


A clitorectomy - while farking horrible - is not at all what is performed as female circumcision in most parts of the world. It's much worse.
 
2012-03-04 11:56:56 AM  
loop48.com


Why stop with the foreskin when you can take the aftskin?
 
2012-03-04 11:58:16 AM  

SkunkWerks: JackieRabbit: I think you need to get a grip. Reformed Jews do not require a full circumcision in the bris anymore. just a little prick on the prick, if that's what the parents want. It's no big deal and doesn't hurt the child.

Fun fact: your brain retains a memory/record of the pain of something even if you can't recall it consciously yourself. This works if you're a baby (i.e. too young to remember) or even if you were under anesthesia (i.e. too sedated to remember).


That said, speak for yourself.

I hate needles, partly because they DO hurt, but mostly because the idea of letting a near-stranger jam a half inch of surgical steel under my skin is a pretty uncomfortable thought.


Speak for myself? Your post is touchy-feely BS. When a baby boy is circumcised in the hospital, step one is to numb his penis by injecting Lidocaine -- that is sticking a needle in his penis and injecting a fluid. That is painful for just a few seconds. He will retain no memory of this. Then he feels nothing (until it wears off). So the dad is inconsistent in his allowing a medical supervision, but not a ceremonial little prick of a pin. If such a trivial thing would traumatize someone for life, they can't expect to live long.
 
2012-03-04 11:58:22 AM  

make me some tea: This thread makes me cross my legs.


Can't you just feel the creepies crawling up your what what?
 
2012-03-04 11:59:37 AM  

Tatsuma: ryarger: There is no medical reason for an adult to place their mouth on the genitals of an infant. Perhaps there used to be, but as you yourself said, there are now devices that do this and that are perfectly religiously acceptable.

Therefore we have a man sucking on the dick of an infant for non-medical and non-religious reasons. How in *any* philosophy is this not an unacceptable perversion??

There is a medical reason to do metzitzah peh, it's just that today it is considered dangerous due to new risks of infection, therefore the best way to do it is with a tube, or with a device that will pump the blood for you.

That does not change the fact that it's absolutely not an 'unacceptable perversion'.

shivashakti: Forgive them. This is something that's very foreign to them and they can't imagine a context where a grown man would put a baby's penis in his mouth and have it not be sexual.

I guess so.

Also every day I go to a mikveh, where there are at least a dozen naked men present as well. I'm guessing that they'd sexualize something like that as well.

It's quite impressive to see the shift from a purely puritan society where sex is not mentioned, to a society where the boundaries are now so far that almost everything is sexualized.


Tats:

Question for you:

My son was circumcised by a pediatrician with a clamp. If this was done by a rabbi or moshel would it be an acceptable alternative? They put some numbing ointment on prior to application of the clamp and he only cried a second.

Serious question, not a religious person and have not studied Judaism to any great extent. Thx!
 
2012-03-04 12:00:01 PM  

JackieRabbit: Speak for myself? Your post is touchy-feely BS. When a baby boy is circumcised in the hospital, step one is to numb his penis by injecting Lidocaine -- that is sticking a needle in his penis and injecting a fluid. That is painful for just a few seconds. He will retain no memory of this. Then he feels nothing (until it wears off). So the dad is inconsistent in his allowing a medical supervision, but not a ceremonial little prick of a pin. If such a trivial thing would traumatize someone for life, they can't expect to live long


So you have to numb his junk before you saw at it. Got it.
 
2012-03-04 12:00:21 PM  
He should be executed by wok.

/and I would wok 500 mohels, and I would wok 500 more...
 
2012-03-04 12:00:43 PM  
Ok, I'm all for traditional and culture...

I'm Jewish myself, and while I'm Reform not Conservative or otherwise...I appreciate their enjoyment of the faith.

But why don't we just chalk this one "tradition" up as one to let go.
Because whomever thought it up...well, let's just say their "tastes" are in question.

I'm all for following & respecting the religious leaders for their wisdom to a certain extent,
but let's face facts and realize that some have other "agendas".

Common sense comes into play here.
Circumcision is fine...and it's good & bad points are debatable.
But this part of the "shtick" should go.
 
2012-03-04 12:01:14 PM  

Digital Communist: outraged over the act of the baptisms, which is beyond ridiculous


Im not fussed by the act of baptism
The fact that said person (many of my ancestors) is then recorded as being baptised as a mormon (in many cases this is the first and only time they are recorded in a database) bothers me a great deal.
Many of my ancestors were quite proud of their religions.
Many of my ancestors were fiercely atheist.
All of the ones I know of are now recorded as mormon (gee thanks father, you putz)
 
2012-03-04 12:03:04 PM  

Slartibartfaster: If someone lopped off my sons pinky I would be furious and would kill them


yes, this is a very primitive response on your part. even the babylonians were wise enough to restrict punishments to "fit the crime". if someone chops off your kid's pinky, you can only chop off his pinky in retaliation. it is likely that you would be imprisoned for life if you took this course of action. unless you live in england, in which case you would probably be given four years in an open prison.
 
2012-03-04 12:03:05 PM  
Frankly, kids, it sucks that the kid died.

It's an odd religious practice, yes. There are a lot of those, and many of them can be harmful, especially to children. There are also a lot of very beneficial religious practices. Please don't wharrgarble about all religions!!!1!!one!!
 
2012-03-04 12:04:51 PM  

UNC_Samurai: He should be executed by wok.

/and I would wok 500 mohels, and I would wok 500 more...


Brilliant (in my best irish accent)
 
2012-03-04 12:05:18 PM  

proteus_b: this is a very primitive response


yes it is

The kind of response you would expect when a parent watches someone mutilate their child ?
 
2012-03-04 12:07:37 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: There are versions of male circumcision that go far beyond what you're 'used to.' Because some see the mandate of Abraham to mean more than a little snip, they mean it to keep the kid from ever having physical pleasure in that realm.


That would "even the score" between the two. But it isn't- to paraphrase another person from earlier- what we'd call the "normative" definition of male circumcision- i.e. what most people understand it to be.

Still, I had no doubt there were even more barmy people out there.

Like I said, a technical nitpick, but a technical nitpick that seems a lot more important when it's your junk we're talking about- and I think a lot more people (read: males) need to have a better understanding of just how inadequate a comparison that is to make of the issue.
 
2012-03-04 12:07:44 PM  

RangerTaylor: There are also a lot of very beneficial religious practices


for example ?
 
2012-03-04 12:08:52 PM  

rogue49: Ok, I'm all for traditional and culture...

I'm Jewish myself, and while I'm Reform not Conservative or otherwise...I appreciate their enjoyment of the faith.

But why don't we just chalk this one "tradition" up as one to let go.
Because whomever thought it up...well, let's just say their "tastes" are in question.

I'm all for following & respecting the religious leaders for their wisdom to a certain extent,
but let's face facts and realize that some have other "agendas".

Common sense comes into play here.
Circumcision is fine...and it's good & bad points are debatable.
But this part of the "shtick" should go.



The boyfriend is Reform as well. His rabbi thinks it's a trip that he's with an atheist. An atheist he brings to high holy days services, no less. Religion's not for me, but it's important to him. A good girlfriend is supportive. And will make you a sammich after sex.

/pastrami on pumpernickel with spicy brown mustard FTW!
//also has made a sammich for myself afterward
///we're really farking weird, but I love him
 
2012-03-04 12:08:53 PM  

RangerTaylor: Frankly, kids, it sucks that the kid died.

It's an odd religious practice, yes. There are a lot of those, and many of them can be harmful, especially to children. There are also a lot of very beneficial religious practices. Please don't wharrgarble about all religions!!!1!!one!!


Tell me a beneficial religious ritual that is practiced on a child's genitalia.
 
2012-03-04 12:11:14 PM  

FormlessOne: It wasn't mere misogyny here in the States - it was wholesale fear of human sexuality, in any form other than that used for procreation, and even that was considered a distasteful, but necessary, chore.


Wholesale fear which- coincidentally enough- it was perfectly okay to place the onus of action entirely on the shoulders of the fairer sex.

Which has, again, long been thought to be the source of sin in most western traditions.

Going to have to disagree and say it's still misogynistic. "Because it was fashionable in the culture at the time" doesn't really release the practice from culpability.
 
2012-03-04 12:12:12 PM  

SkunkWerks: Salt Lick Steady: There are versions of male circumcision that go far beyond what you're 'used to.' Because some see the mandate of Abraham to mean more than a little snip, they mean it to keep the kid from ever having physical pleasure in that realm.

That would "even the score" between the two. But it isn't- to paraphrase another person from earlier- what we'd call the "normative" definition of male circumcision- i.e. what most people understand it to be.

Still, I had no doubt there were even more barmy people out there.

Like I said, a technical nitpick, but a technical nitpick that seems a lot more important when it's your junk we're talking about- and I think a lot more people (read: males) need to have a better understanding of just how inadequate a comparison that is to make of the issue.


Is is wrong that I keep reading that as a netnichal titpick?

Agreed. The standard circumcision that the hospitals do without generally even asking the family is one thing. This jewish procedure is wholly else.
 
2012-03-04 12:12:26 PM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Coming on a Bicycle: Amos Quito: Serious question:

If an uncircumcised ADULT male wanted to CONVERT to Orthodox Judaism, and went through all of the necessary and required preparations - (study, commandments, observances, etc) he would have to be circumcised to complete the conversion, would he not?

Would the mohel suck the wound on the adult male like he did on the child?

If not, why not?

That's a question of such potentially theological fuzziness, it'll probably keep sixteen generations of rabbi busy, publishing tractate after tractate so why don't you wait for that ;-)

Why are you winking? Amos trolling or not, it was a(n unintentionally?) good question that just needed a 'yes' or 'no' answer to shut it down, none of this coy 'I don't know' and 'We don't talk/think about it' shiat that's been going on for the majority of the thread.

I don't know what it means that it didn't get that type of shut down, instead of crap like the attempted 'we don't like you' put downs of Amos, above.


I'm sorry I couldn't be serious enough for your requirements, darling. I just thought it was a typical 'Jewish' question and, as such, ironic given the topic of the thread.
 
2012-03-04 12:13:47 PM  
Well, I am sorry I was late to the party.

Remember kids-- infant genital mutilation is wrong and immoral.

And look what kind of stupidity religion makes you engage in. Shame on you.
 
2012-03-04 12:15:00 PM  

Coco LaFemme: rogue49: Ok, I'm all for traditional and culture...

I'm Jewish myself, and while I'm Reform not Conservative or otherwise...I appreciate their enjoyment of the faith.

But why don't we just chalk this one "tradition" up as one to let go.
Because whomever thought it up...well, let's just say their "tastes" are in question.

I'm all for following & respecting the religious leaders for their wisdom to a certain extent,
but let's face facts and realize that some have other "agendas".

Common sense comes into play here.
Circumcision is fine...and it's good & bad points are debatable.
But this part of the "shtick" should go.


The boyfriend is Reform as well. His rabbi thinks it's a trip that he's with an atheist. An atheist he brings to high holy days services, no less. Religion's not for me, but it's important to him. A good girlfriend is supportive. And will make you a sammich after sex.

/pastrami on pumpernickel with spicy brown mustard FTW!
//also has made a sammich for myself afterward
///we're really farking weird, but I love him


The only time I'd be so supportive is if he told me he were going Quaker on me.
 
2012-03-04 12:16:25 PM  

BronyMedic: , especially when circumcision is not required for Jewish Identity?


that is 100% false. It absolutely IS a requirement.

herrDrFarkenstein: Yeah, i'd like to see the overall percentage of incidence on those for comparison. I'm actually sensitive to the tradition argument but how about some 21st century common sense? Use a straw or a filter, or make the Mohels who do this be regularly tested for communicable disease. There must be a good Jewish doctor somewhere who could help.


That's exactly what happens 99% of the time
 
2012-03-04 12:16:38 PM  

GungFu: Awwww, wook at the widdle baby. He having sooo much fuun! I wove him sooo much!


You know, newborn babies look like that a great deal of the time anyway. He could be hungry or cold for all you know.

Don't like abortions? Don't have one
Don't like circumcisions? Don't do one.
 
2012-03-04 12:16:44 PM  

Slartibartfaster: RangerTaylor: There are also a lot of very beneficial religious practices

for example ?



Abstinence.

Especially abstaining from religion.
 
2012-03-04 12:17:36 PM  
See, this is why I am so glad I made the decision to not be religious or have my kid circumcised. I don't have these freaking problems. If it ain't broke, I don't fark with it. It is a good rule.
 
2012-03-04 12:18:10 PM  

Tatsuma: BronyMedic: , especially when circumcision is not required for Jewish Identity?

that is 100% false. It absolutely IS a requirement.


Ooooh he's back for round two.

Please continue to tell us how we're perverts for questioning the actions of putting a boy's penis in your mouth, or how we're "bashing" because we ask difficult questions you can't justify.
 
2012-03-04 12:20:15 PM  

cryinoutloud: GungFu: Awwww, wook at the widdle baby. He having sooo much fuun! I wove him sooo much!

You know, newborn babies look like that a great deal of the time anyway. He could be hungry or cold for all you know.

Don't like abortions? Don't have one
Don't like circumcisions? Don't do one.


Are you in favor of infant tattoos?

cdn.blogs.sheknows.com
 
2012-03-04 12:20:17 PM  
Obviously a little late to the party, but having quite a few less than orthodox Jewish friends who've shared with me their reasons for not being so, I kinda figured that would be the reason why. Religions are f*cking weird, people. This isn't that much stranger than believing some juice and crackers literally becomes the body and blood of a dead person and you have to eat it or that you have to face a specific direction when praying 5 times a day (or however many it is).

The Shatner Incident: If it ain't broke, I don't fark with it. It is a good rule.


Ah yes. The "golddigger" rule.

j/k
 
2012-03-04 12:20:37 PM  

SkunkWerks: perfectly okay to place the onus of action entirely on the shoulders of the fairer sex


It is standard practice to mutilate males (I had to fight the nurse off for it when my son was born, then the biatch tried it on my semi comatose wife after I left her to sleep)
It is not standard practice to mutilate females (at least in the cultures my daughter was born into)

How is this a burden for the fairer sex ?
 
2012-03-04 12:20:48 PM  

Deedeemarz: My son was circumcised by a pediatrician with a clamp. If this was done by a rabbi or moshel would it be an acceptable alternative? They put some numbing ointment on prior to application of the clamp and he only cried a second.


Circumcision is only a requirement for Jews. As it was done in a hospital, with a clamp, it would not be considered an accepted brit milah, no.

If your son wanted to convert, he would have to have a drop of blood taken from him
 
2012-03-04 12:20:51 PM  

Tatsuma: BronyMedic: , especially when circumcision is not required for Jewish Identity?

that is 100% false. It absolutely IS a requirement.



So you're saying that a Jewish boy kidnapped from a hospital right after birth and before being cut...

...would not be considered Jewish by other Jews???


/Rhetorical question
//Proud member of Tats' Ignore List
 
2012-03-04 12:21:26 PM  

cryinoutloud: Don't like circumcisions? Don't do one.


Except that you really should be asking the person who's penis is being mutilated if they mind having bits chopped off. The child can't give their consent (nor would they be likely to unless their head were filled with religious nonsense)
 
2012-03-04 12:23:05 PM  

Tatsuma: Deedeemarz: My son was circumcised by a pediatrician with a clamp. If this was done by a rabbi or moshel would it be an acceptable alternative? They put some numbing ointment on prior to application of the clamp and he only cried a second.

Circumcision is only a requirement for Jews. As it was done in a hospital, with a clamp, it would not be considered an accepted brit milah, no.

If your son wanted to convert, he would have to have a drop of blood taken from him



NO BLOOD FOR OY'L!
 
2012-03-04 12:23:19 PM  

SkunkWerks: FormlessOne: It wasn't mere misogyny here in the States - it was wholesale fear of human sexuality, in any form other than that used for procreation, and even that was considered a distasteful, but necessary, chore.

Wholesale fear which- coincidentally enough- it was perfectly okay to place the onus of action entirely on the shoulders of the fairer sex.

Which has, again, long been thought to be the source of sin in most western traditions.

Going to have to disagree and say it's still misogynistic. "Because it was fashionable in the culture at the time" doesn't really release the practice from culpability.


Are you a woman? I only ask because your response smacks of faux cheaux.
 
2012-03-04 12:23:57 PM  
I don't often comment on much of anything. Mostly because I'm late for the party.

I was circumsized at the behest of my mother for cleanliness reasoning and she was an RN. I don't remember the pain of it so it didn't become a con when my own son was circumsized, It wasn't done for the Abrahamic reasons but for ultimately cosmetic ones. Who do I feel about that? I don't know, he'll never have a woman freak out at the moment of presentation and if he wants to convert to Judaism the job is half done I guess.

I understand the Rabbi in question most likely didn't decide to become a Rabbi just so he could suction blood off of newly circumsized infants for his perverse pleasure at random intervals. I understand he belongs to a sect which observes traditional ritual. I understand the less orthodox of the community have to support him because a) they view some of their practises like the city mouse would view their backward country mice cousins, backward but not ill intentioned and b) to criticise the would erode their own interpretations to a degree.

Traditions define us, I get that. At some point we have to say maybe we need to move on. Especially from this one. I can't argue a point sufficiently to get you to change your mind about a practise. I can argue about how to do it safely. The child didn't have have to die. Its really up to the community at large to tell the Orthodox community no more direct oral contact, use a tube. That message will get through with a charge of involuntary manslaughter.
 
2012-03-04 12:23:58 PM  

Tatsuma: Deedeemarz: My son was circumcised by a pediatrician with a clamp. If this was done by a rabbi or moshel would it be an acceptable alternative? They put some numbing ointment on prior to application of the clamp and he only cried a second.

Circumcision is only a requirement for Jews. As it was done in a hospital, with a clamp, it would not be considered an accepted brit milah, no.

If your son wanted to convert, he would have to have a drop of blood taken from him


I love you because you are fighting for the right to have a religious minister suck the penises of babies.
 
2012-03-04 12:23:59 PM  

Slartibartfaster: SkunkWerks: perfectly okay to place the onus of action entirely on the shoulders of the fairer sex

It is standard practice to mutilate males (I had to fight the nurse off for it when my son was born, then the biatch tried it on my semi comatose wife after I left her to sleep)
It is not standard practice to mutilate females (at least in the cultures my daughter was born into)

How is this a burden for the fairer sex ?


Out of context question is out of context.

Formlessone was discussing Victorian Age fancies. You're not a Victorian, I take it?


/"late" as in "the late Dent Arthurdent
 
2012-03-04 12:24:57 PM  

Tatsuma: It absolutely IS a requirement


Your identity requires the end of your cock to be cut off
Your identity SUCKS tehe
 
2012-03-04 12:26:34 PM  

Tatsuma: Circumcision is only a requirement for Jews


Sub-Saharan cultures called, they said to tell you to stfu
 
2012-03-04 12:29:39 PM  

Amos Quito: So you're saying that a Jewish boy kidnapped from a hospital right after birth and before being cut...

...would not be considered Jewish by other Jews???


by religious nuts like tatsuma, possibly not.

for nazis like yourself, it's unlikely that there's anything i can do to remove my original sin of having jewish ancestry.
 
2012-03-04 12:30:33 PM  

Tatsuma: Also I have to say, those of you who ascribe sexualized intentions to a medical procedure on a 8 days old toddler have big big problems and I wouldn't let you around my children without supervision.


This is as much a "medical procedure" as getting a tattoo is. Also less hygenic. I strongly doubt the rabbi had a license to practice medicine, let alone surgery, albeit minor. If that's the case prison time would seem in order just for the "practicing 'medicine' (your term) without a license, with death resulting"

What is the supposed medical value of inserting the penis of a infant into the mouth of an adult male? The closest analogy I can think of in modern medical practice involved the use of maggots to consume necrotic tissue, and I'm sure you're not equating rabbis with maggots. What *medical* value is there to the suction at all, however administered? Shouldn't one attempt to reduce the bleeding after a surgical incision rather than increase it?

These victims need guardians ad litem immediately and the practitioners need to be held without bail pending trial unless there is a reasonable assurance that they will obey a C&D order. I would also argue that the children need to placed in foster care pending procedures to revoke parental rights and place them for adoption with less deranged people.

Allegedly David Koresh and Jim Jones slept with teenage girls "for religious purposes" - with the consent of their parents and (to the limited degree that a minor may be able to consent) the teens themselves. Hell, they didn't excise tissue or (probably) cause physical scarring*. Had he drugged the girls first so they had no emotional trauma, Koresh would be a few rows further back from the fire in Hell, if you believe in that sort of thing.

---
*I'm thinking of scarring from rupture of the hymen, but that's something that is a consequence of sexual intercourse in any context, for many women, in the course of a normal biological function. Whacking off someone's foreskin then sucking their cock is not a normal biological function.
 
2012-03-04 12:30:47 PM  

octopied: coco ebert: Under the practice, the rabbi or mohel removes blood from the wound with his mouth - a practice city health officials have criticized, saying it carried "inherent risks" for babies.

:O

which holy book says that it's fine to lick the blood off of someone else body?


Genitalius 3:16
 
2012-03-04 12:32:20 PM  

proteus_b: Amos Quito: So you're saying that a Jewish boy kidnapped from a hospital right after birth and before being cut...

...would not be considered Jewish by other Jews???

by religious nuts like tatsuma, possibly not.

for nazis like yourself, it's unlikely that there's anything i can do to remove my original sin of having jewish ancestry.


Nobody hates you for what you are. They dislike you for what you do and say.

You stop doing and saying that, they like you again. Poof!
 
2012-03-04 12:33:24 PM  

AndreMA: Tatsuma: Also I have to say, those of you who ascribe sexualized intentions to a medical procedure on a 8 days old toddler have big big problems and I wouldn't let you around my children without supervision.

This is as much a "medical procedure" as getting a tattoo is. Also less hygenic. I strongly doubt the rabbi had a license to practice medicine, let alone surgery, albeit minor. If that's the case prison time would seem in order just for the "practicing 'medicine' (your term) without a license, with death resulting"

What is the supposed medical value of inserting the penis of a infant into the mouth of an adult male? The closest analogy I can think of in modern medical practice involved the use of maggots to consume necrotic tissue, and I'm sure you're not equating rabbis with maggots. What *medical* value is there to the suction at all, however administered? Shouldn't one attempt to reduce the bleeding after a surgical incision rather than increase it?

These victims need guardians ad litem immediately and the practitioners need to be held without bail pending trial unless there is a reasonable assurance that they will obey a C&D order. I would also argue that the children need to placed in foster care pending procedures to revoke parental rights and place them for adoption with less deranged people.

Allegedly David Koresh and Jim Jones slept with teenage girls "for religious purposes" - with the consent of their parents and (to the limited degree that a minor may be able to consent) the teens themselves. Hell, they didn't excise tissue or (probably) cause physical scarring*. Had he drugged the girls first so they had no emotional trauma, Koresh would be a few rows further back from the fire in Hell, if you believe in that sort of thing.

---
*I'm thinking of scarring from rupture of the hymen, but that's something that is a consequence of sexual intercourse in any context, for many women, in the course of a normal biological function. Whacking off someone's ...


Come on, man...relax. All they're doing is removing an infant's body part with no medical reason. What's the big dealio? When I have children, I'm having a finger removed so they have a better chance of being a major league pitcher.
 
2012-03-04 12:33:41 PM  

BronyMedic: Diogenes The Cynic: Well then, they do not represent, or practice Judaism

So they're not "True Jews©®™" unless they follow Orthodox Judaism, then? Is that like you're only a "true Christian" if you follow the doctrine of the person you're talking with?

I guess only 13% of American Jews and 25% of Israeli Jews are true, then. You know what, I think I see a Scotsman somewhere. Maybe not, he wasn't wearing a kilt. All true Scotsmen wear kilts.

/So, you're cool with me taking that skull, right? Religion and all?
//And this, folks, is why we shouldhave separation of Church and State.

Really.
 
2012-03-04 12:34:08 PM  

proteus_b: by religious nuts like tatsuma, possibly not.


He would absolutely be considered Jewish, however he also absolutely would require brit milah as soon as he's recovered, to be fully part of the nation.

As far as being a 'religious nuts', this is the way that Judaism has held for 3,300 plus years, so really I'm not so much as nuts as following exactly what Judaism dictates.

AndreMA: What is the supposed medical value of inserting the penis of a infant into the mouth of an adult male?


How about you read the article that I posted about this, which covers this whole thing?
 
2012-03-04 12:35:05 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: Nobody hates you for what you are. They dislike you for what you do and say.


riiiiight and now anti-semitism and the Holocaust and so forth was our fault

Thank you for this absolutely brilliant comment, you are in no way wrong.
 
2012-03-04 12:35:36 PM  

Tatsuma: proteus_b: by religious nuts like tatsuma, possibly not.

He would absolutely be considered Jewish, however he also absolutely would require brit milah as soon as he's recovered, to be fully part of the nation.

As far as being a 'religious nuts', this is the way that Judaism has held for 3,300 plus years, so really I'm not so much as nuts as following exactly what Judaism dictates.

AndreMA: What is the supposed medical value of inserting the penis of a infant into the mouth of an adult male?

How about you read the article that I posted about this, which covers this whole thing?


Just because Judaism has been around for a long time doesn't make it sensible.
 
2012-03-04 12:35:48 PM  
Let me guess: white, from the suburbs, upper middle class, right?
 
2012-03-04 12:36:33 PM  

Tatsuma: As far as being a 'religious nuts', this is the way that Judaism has held for 3,300 plus years, so really I'm not so much as nuts as following exactly what Judaism dictates.


Did you really just try to defend your actions by saying "It's not nuts because it's been around a long time" ?

Sacrificing a baby to have a healthy yield of crops this year has been done a long time too. Apparently it's not nuts.
 
2012-03-04 12:36:44 PM  

gimmegimme: Just because Judaism has been around for a long time doesn't make it sensible.


And that was not my point, my point is that I'm not a nut, in as much as this is what Judaism has been prescribing for 3,300 plus years, so I'm following exactly what Judaism dictates

It's really not a hard point to get.
 
2012-03-04 12:37:20 PM  
Now that the internet generation is starting to breed, there's going to be a lot of kids going uncircumcised since the internet geeks love going against the norm. I hope your sons hate you when they get old enough to realize how you farked them over by being all smug and thinking you were taking a stand.
 
2012-03-04 12:37:57 PM  

Tatsuma: gimmegimme: Just because Judaism has been around for a long time doesn't make it sensible.

And that was not my point, my point is that I'm not a nut, in as much as this is what Judaism has been prescribing for 3,300 plus years, so I'm following exactly what Judaism dictates

It's really not a hard point to get.


I'm sorry, but people who want to remove body parts from their children without medical need are nuts.

People who think it's okay to suck an infant's penis are nuts.
 
2012-03-04 12:37:58 PM  
Comforting to know that religious freedom allows rabbis to give babies blow jobs.
 
2012-03-04 12:38:08 PM  

Tatsuma: Salt Lick Steady: Nobody hates you for what you are. They dislike you for what you do and say.

riiiiight and now anti-semitism and the Holocaust and so forth was our fault

Thank you for this absolutely brilliant comment, you are in no way wrong.


Listen, as long has you have a christ complex nobody is going to like you. You don't get some sort of free jew pass.
 
2012-03-04 12:39:32 PM  

Tatsuma: for 3,300 plus years


Remember kids: the longer a practice has existed, the less insane it assuredly is, and without exception. Because the older it is, the more it's beyond any possibility or grounds for reproach.

Tatsuma: Thank you for this absolutely brilliant comment, you are in no way wrong.


Thank you for this out of context quote. It in no way applies.

:D
 
2012-03-04 12:39:47 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: Nobody hates you for what you are. They dislike you for what you do and say.

You stop doing and saying that, they like you again. Poof!


i'm not sure anyone dislikes me, except for amos quito and his ilk. most of my friends are christian, some even quite church going. but this guy amos is rather... concerned... about what happens in jewish communities.
 
2012-03-04 12:39:49 PM  

Tatsuma: ryarger: There is no medical reason for an adult to place their mouth on the genitals of an infant. Perhaps there used to be, but as you yourself said, there are now devices that do this and that are perfectly religiously acceptable.

Therefore we have a man sucking on the dick of an infant for non-medical and non-religious reasons. How in *any* philosophy is this not an unacceptable perversion??

There is a medical reason to do metzitzah peh, it's just that today it is considered dangerous due to new risks of infection, therefore the best way to do it is with a tube, or with a device that will pump the blood for you.

That does not change the fact that it's absolutely not an 'unacceptable perversion'.

shivashakti: Forgive them. This is something that's very foreign to them and they can't imagine a context where a grown man would put a baby's penis in his mouth and have it not be sexual.

I guess so.

Also every day I go to a mikveh, where there are at least a dozen naked men present as well. I'm guessing that they'd sexualize something like that as well.

It's quite impressive to see the shift from a purely puritan society where sex is not mentioned, to a society where the boundaries are now so far that almost everything is sexualized.


Seriously get over yourself and beliefs on this. You across as antiquated and every letter you waste on explanation does not excuse anything. We came from monkeys so everything in our history is sexualized and your vehement pretending that certain people from your tribe don't sexualize things just proves how naieve you are.
 
2012-03-04 12:41:20 PM  
Tatsuma trying to explain circumcision and this whole story

3.bp.blogspot.com

Darwin wins, but it wasn't the rabbi with the herp that died unfortunately
 
2012-03-04 12:42:17 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: Listen, as long has you have a christ complex nobody is going to like you. You don't get some sort of free jew pass.


You just claimed that no one in the world hates Jews for being Jews, they only hate Jews for what we say and do.

If you don't realize just how utterly retarded that statement is, I just don't know what else to say
 
2012-03-04 12:43:31 PM  

Tatsuma: Salt Lick Steady: Listen, as long has you have a christ complex nobody is going to like you. You don't get some sort of free jew pass.

You just claimed that no one in the world hates Jews for being Jews, they only hate Jews for what we say and do.

If you don't realize just how utterly retarded that statement is, I just don't know what else to say


I would love it if you would say you're no longer strongly in favor of baby blow jobs.
 
2012-03-04 12:43:31 PM  

SkunkWerks: You're not a Victorian, I take it?


no, but the capital city of my home province is :-)
 
2012-03-04 12:44:05 PM  

Tatsuma: Salt Lick Steady: Listen, as long has you have a christ complex nobody is going to like you. You don't get some sort of free jew pass.

You just claimed that no one in the world hates Jews for being Jews, they only hate Jews for what we say and do.

If you don't realize just how utterly retarded that statement is, I just don't know what else to say


You farks have stayed on the cross long enough. Just get down.
 
2012-03-04 12:45:34 PM  

Tatsuma: As far as being a 'religious nuts', this is the way that Judaism has held for 3,300 plus years, so really I'm not so much as nuts as following exactly what Judaism dictates.


it's nuts. and if this is the way that it's been done for 3300 years, what good are the teachings of akiva? what good was rambam? is bet yisrael jews? is the temeni hagadda the same as that of parisians?
 
2012-03-04 12:46:42 PM  

proteus_b: Salt Lick Steady: Nobody hates you for what you are. They dislike you for what you do and say.

You stop doing and saying that, they like you again. Poof!

i'm not sure anyone dislikes me, except for amos quito and his ilk. most of my friends are christian, some even quite church going. but this guy amos is rather... concerned... about what happens in jewish communities.


Any one should be concerned, jewish or not, that you allow - nay, praise - this practice.
 
2012-03-04 12:47:08 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: You farks have stayed on the cross long enough. Just get down.


Yeah you're just another nazi twat. Many around these days.

proteus_b: and if this is the way that it's been done for 3300 years, what good are the teachings of akiva? what good was rambam? is bet yisrael jews? is the temeni hagadda the same as that of parisians?


apples and oranges.

Mitzvot are the same as they were then, including circumcision. Has nothing to do with later teachings elaborating on the mitzvot or the written Torah.
 
2012-03-04 12:47:21 PM  

Tatsuma: You just claimed


It must be awfully convenient to "argue" this way
It is like some sort of strawman crossed with a healthy dose of paranoia - and yet still has an overall self importance character

Is Chianti involved ?
 
2012-03-04 12:48:30 PM  

coco ebert: Under the practice, the rabbi or mohel removes blood from the wound with his mouth - a practice city health officials have criticized, saying it carried "inherent risks" for babies.

:O


More like :o
 
2012-03-04 12:48:54 PM  

Tatsuma: Yeah you're just another nazi twat. Many around these days.


It must be nice being Jewish and being able to pull this any time someone says something you don't like.
 
2012-03-04 12:49:21 PM  

proteus_b: Tatsuma: As far as being a 'religious nuts', this is the way that Judaism has held for 3,300 plus years, so really I'm not so much as nuts as following exactly what Judaism dictates.

it's nuts. and if this is the way that it's been done for 3300 years, what good are the teachings of akiva? what good was rambam? is bet yisrael jews? is the temeni hagadda the same as that of parisians?


Ok, you talk the talk. Just who are you?
 
2012-03-04 12:51:00 PM  

9beers: Ow My Balls: When our son was born, the doctor was going down his checklist of usual items in a matter of routine, and got to, "...will you want him circumcised?"

We said, "No."

He stopped dead in his tracks, looked up from his paper into our eyes and said a heartfelt, "Good for you. That's a lot more unusual here in the midwest..."

Not one single problem with son's little member, and there has been no maintenance or anything.

Your kid is going to hate you when he becomes an adult.


Bullshiat.
America is the only, ONLY country in the civilized world where people routinely mutilate their newborns genitals.
 
2012-03-04 12:51:03 PM  

Aracnix: I didn't have my sons cut. Some people look at me with disbelief when this comes up in conversation (with moms, *everything* is discussed...). I honestly don't get it. There's no reason at all to have this done. There are justifications, but that's not the same thing. There's soap, now. So put away the little tiny knife. Girls get circumcised for religious reasons, too; doesn't make it right or reasonable.


You sounds like a good mom. I want to have your babies.

/wait... what?
//Oedipus' head explodes, and not from the protection of its foreskin
 
2012-03-04 12:51:40 PM  

Tatsuma: Functionality implies necessity. This is not a necessary part of the body.


Is this because you can live without it?

You can live without your right arm. Is your right arm not a "necessity"? Would we tolerate a religion that amputates babies?
 
2012-03-04 12:52:25 PM  
Tatsuma gimmegimme: Just because Judaism has been around for a long time doesn't make it sensible.

And that was not my point, my point is that I'm not a nut, in as much as this is what Judaism has been prescribing for 3,300 plus years, so I'm following exactly what Judaism dictates

It's really not a hard point to get.


And for 33,000 + years before that, there was human sacrifice. I don't compare circumcision to that, but just saying that the length of time a tradition lasts is not necessarily a sign that the tradition is not "nuts." I don't necessarily think circumcision is nuts. Given that I'm in my 30s and I'm American, I'm glad that I was cut (looked normal in the locker room and no girls ever thought it looked weird; would be a different story if I grew up in Europe). But you'll need to come up with better arguments than longevity if you want to show that it isn't nuts.
 
2012-03-04 12:54:03 PM  

proteus_b: Amos Quito: So you're saying that a Jewish boy kidnapped from a hospital right after birth and before being cut...

...would not be considered Jewish by other Jews???

by religious nuts like tatsuma, possibly not.

for nazis like yourself, it's unlikely that there's anything i can do to remove my original sin of having jewish ancestry.



the only reason that anyone knows that you are Jewish is because you insist on announcing it.

I too was raised in a religion, but you don't know what that religion is because I have and want nothing to do with it and never mention it. It is therefore irrelevant to all.

I'm sure that there are many people who, having been born to Jewish mothers, are technically Jews, but who have no interest in associating with the clan, don't run around talking/obsessing about it, and are therefor regarded by their fellow human beings as human beings. If these folks don't burden their children with the knowledge of their ancestry, the kids will grow up thinking of themselves as human and view other folks as human as well, and they will probably live much happier and less stressful lives as a result.

Is there something wrong with this approach?
 
2012-03-04 12:54:10 PM  
You know, there are a lot of Haredi sects, from the Hassidim to the Neturei Karta (who are so conservative, they want to abolish Israel; I should point out that they appear to be serious but are not representative of even the haredim). Which one is this?
 
2012-03-04 12:54:14 PM  

Hetfield: Here'shiatchens face-raping a rabbi who thinks genital mutilation is a topic for humor


Diogenes The Cynic: proteus_b: Diogenes The Cynic: We didn't abandon anything. Orthodox Judaism is (by nature of what orthodoxy is) unchanged.

since when? it's obviously changed a great deal since biblical times, otherwise the talmud would be considered as heretical as the teachings of jesus or muhammad.

it's also clear that there are vast differences between jews from different parts of the world. there is some common ground; circumcision is definitely one thing which is shared by all the jews.

Ok, concrete examples.

Name them.


Off the top of my head? Well, we have Peach coming up, and the annual disagreement over kitniyot, since she's Ashkenaz and I'm not.

Wait. Never mind. You are absolutely correct: There are no differences among Jews.


/Let's buy a brace of doves, go find a kohein, and make a peace offering.
//Aren't you up for some barbecue?
 
2012-03-04 12:54:31 PM  

Tatsuma: Salt Lick Steady: You farks have stayed on the cross long enough. Just get down.

Yeah you're just another nazi twat. Many around these days.

proteus_b: and if this is the way that it's been done for 3300 years, what good are the teachings of akiva? what good was rambam? is bet yisrael jews? is the temeni hagadda the same as that of parisians?

apples and oranges.

Mitzvot are the same as they were then, including circumcision. Has nothing to do with later teachings elaborating on the mitzvot or the written Torah.


Yes, I am a nazi. If that means any one who thinks your practices are wrong. You have an adult suck the blood off an infant who has just been mutilated. And you want to call me wrong. farking call me it. I will be wrong if that is the measure of right. fark you.
 
2012-03-04 12:55:57 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: Any one should be concerned, jewish or not, that you allow - nay, praise - this practice.


i have not allowed or praised the practice. i was circumcised at birth (in that hospital, incidentally).

there are proportionate levels of concern. i was joking as much as you were when i referred to "inferior gentiles". many of my friends are christian, some even rather devout. i am not religous. amos quito shows a disproportionate amount of concern for what happens in the jewish community. it's unlikely that he's a large fan of hindus, muslims, mexicans, blacks, or any number of other groups. but he is in particular very very concerned about what jews do. he will frequently claim that he is merely concerned about human rights abuses committed by the state of israel.

i trust that you are not an anti-semite and merely sick of people over-playing the "jew card". that's a reasonable view. people like amos quito, who seem to spend every waking hour worrying about the latest threat to humanity posed by jews, do not hold reasonable views.
 
2012-03-04 12:57:42 PM  
And no matter whether think circumcision is a good thing, the whole metzitzeh b'peh thing needs to go. The state has a compelling interest in making sure infants don't get molested and killed like this poor child was. This compelling interest overrides any 1st amendment considerations. The rabbi needs to be prosecuted for criminal sexual contact on a child (or whatever the N.Y. equivalent is) and manslaughter.
 
2012-03-04 12:57:58 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Hetfield: Here'shiatchens face-raping a rabbi who thinks genital mutilation is a topic for humor

Diogenes The Cynic: proteus_b: Diogenes The Cynic: We didn't abandon anything. Orthodox Judaism is (by nature of what orthodoxy is) unchanged.

since when? it's obviously changed a great deal since biblical times, otherwise the talmud would be considered as heretical as the teachings of jesus or muhammad.

it's also clear that there are vast differences between jews from different parts of the world. there is some common ground; circumcision is definitely one thing which is shared by all the jews.

Ok, concrete examples.

Name them.

Off the top of my head? Well, we have Peach coming up, and the annual disagreement over kitniyot, since she's Ashkenaz and I'm not.

Wait. Never mind. You are absolutely correct: There are no differences among Jews.


/Let's buy a brace of doves, go find a kohein, and make a peace offering.
//Aren't you up for some barbecue?


And we can find exactly the circumstances under which the Ashkanazim decided to not eat kitniot. We know the year. We know the reasons. Its all recorded, and out in the open.

And, we also, unfortunately know the year when the Temple was destroyed, so we can't perform any offerings.
 
2012-03-04 12:58:04 PM  

BronyMedic: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

According to the US Census, so is Jedi and Sith. Why won't you accept that Obi Wan Kenobi died for your sins, letrole?


The part in bold is incorrect.

The U.S. Census does not ask about religion. (new window)

You're thinking about other English speaking countries. (new window)
 
2012-03-04 12:59:17 PM  

proteus_b: there are proportionate levels of concern. i was joking as much as you were when i referred to "inferior gentiles". many of my friends are christian, some even rather devout. i am not religous. amos quito shows a disproportionate amount of concern for what happens in the jewish community. it's unlikely that he's a large fan of hindus, muslims, mexicans, blacks, or any number of other groups. but he is in particular very very concerned about what jews do. he will frequently claim that he is merely concerned about human rights abuses committed by the state of israel.


Human rights issues affect all of us. That's why they're called human rights, and not Jewish rights.

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing'
 
2012-03-04 12:59:25 PM  

iollow: You can live without your right arm. Is your right arm not a "necessity"? Would we tolerate a religion that amputates babies?


A baby is not a necessary part of a body. I therefore believe that God wants abortions.

What?
 
2012-03-04 12:59:50 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: Yes, I am a nazi.


You are because you blamed anti-semitism on us, then called us farks who need to get off our cross.
 
2012-03-04 01:00:16 PM  
Circumsision is simply not worth the effort as the benefits are heavily outweighed by the downside as this sad case so painfully illustrates.

/Cut.
//Not best pleased with that decision.
///Circumcision threads demand slashies.
 
2012-03-04 01:00:27 PM  

LordFlashheart: I don't often comment on much of anything. Mostly because I'm late for the party.

I was circumsized at the behest of my mother for cleanliness reasoning and she was an RN. I don't remember the pain of it so it didn't become a con when my own son was circumsized, It wasn't done for the Abrahamic reasons but for ultimately cosmetic ones. Who do I feel about that? I don't know, he'll never have a woman freak out at the moment of presentation and if he wants to convert to Judaism the job is half done I guess.


Who do I feel about that?
Who do I feel about that?
Who do I feel about that?
 
2012-03-04 01:01:30 PM  

Tatsuma: You are because you blamed anti-semitism on us, then called us farks who need to get off our cross


Calling someone a nazi is pretty farking offensive
Do you even know what an actual nazi is anymore ?
 
2012-03-04 01:02:09 PM  

Tatsuma: Salt Lick Steady: Yes, I am a nazi.

You are because you blamed anti-semitism on us, then called us farks who need to get off our cross.


Yes, it is your cross that you need to down from. Else stop the pity party.
 
2012-03-04 01:03:49 PM  
Tatsuma

Also I have to say, those of you who ascribe sexualized intentions to a medical procedure on a 8 days old toddler have big big problems and I wouldn't let you around my children without supervision.


Religious man with herpes sucks a child's penis, and if you think that's a bit suspect you're the pedophile.
 
2012-03-04 01:04:11 PM  

Tatsuma: Salt Lick Steady: Yes, I am a nazi.

You are because you blamed anti-semitism on us, then called us farks who need to get off our cross.


Correlation is not causality.
 
2012-03-04 01:04:22 PM  

Amos Quito: I'm sure that there are many people who, having been born to Jewish mothers, are technically Jews, but who have no interest in associating with the clan, don't run around talking/obsessing about it, and are therefor regarded by their fellow human beings as human beings. If these folks don't burden their children with the knowledge of their ancestry, the kids will grow up thinking of themselves as human and view other folks as human as well, and they will probably live much happier and less stressful lives as a result.

Is there something wrong with this approach?


you know, i consider myself a humanist. the only jewish ritual i indulge in is the fast on yom kipur.

yes, and while i detest the abuses committed by religious people of all religions... including the practice in the article... you seem to be overly concerned with the abuses committed by jews.

are you going to condemn the millions killed by christian crusades? the millions who suffered from the forced conversion by catholics in south and central america, africa, south asia, etc. etc.? the millions slaughtered by hindus? by buddhists? animists?

no, you reserve your condemnation for the jews. i know that it's time that someone finally stood up and condemned the jews---a group which has gotten off scot free in all their history. for this we thank you. thank you for bringing the matter to our attention.
 
2012-03-04 01:04:58 PM  

Tatsuma: How about you read the article that I posted about this, which covers this whole thing?


How about you give a simple one-sentence answer and not demand that I search through an article whose credibility is unknown to me? It's not a complicated question. Does it reduce infection? (apparently not). Does it speed healing? (i doubt it). Does it nourish the rabbi? (trivial amount of blood for that).

I'm not going to read your link any more than i'd follow a link to nambla.org posted by a pedophilia apologist.
 
2012-03-04 01:05:59 PM  

proteus_b: no, you reserve your condemnation for the jews. i know that it's time that someone finally stood up and condemned the jews---a group which has gotten off scot free in all their history. for this we thank you. thank you for bringing the matter to our attention.


Oh come on, haven't you seen him tirelessly advocating for the life of the ten thousand syrians who have been killed so far?

He will not rest until justice is rendered!
 
2012-03-04 01:06:16 PM  

LordFlashheart: he'll never have a woman freak out at the moment of presentation


Them opening their mouths is not done out of shock or horror.

And i have a sneaking suspicion women find all penises kind of funny looking. A slight alteration isn't going to make much difference, unless, of course, it kills you.
 
2012-03-04 01:06:45 PM  

proteus_b: Amos Quito: I'm sure that there are many people who, having been born to Jewish mothers, are technically Jews, but who have no interest in associating with the clan, don't run around talking/obsessing about it, and are therefor regarded by their fellow human beings as human beings. If these folks don't burden their children with the knowledge of their ancestry, the kids will grow up thinking of themselves as human and view other folks as human as well, and they will probably live much happier and less stressful lives as a result.

Is there something wrong with this approach?

you know, i consider myself a humanist. the only jewish ritual i indulge in is the fast on yom kipur.

yes, and while i detest the abuses committed by religious people of all religions... including the practice in the article... you seem to be overly concerned with the abuses committed by jews.

are you going to condemn the millions killed by christian crusades? the millions who suffered from the forced conversion by catholics in south and central america, africa, south asia, etc. etc.? the millions slaughtered by hindus? by buddhists? animists?

no, you reserve your condemnation for the jews. i know that it's time that someone finally stood up and condemned the jews---a group which has gotten off scot free in all their history. for this we thank you. thank you for bringing the matter to our attention.


The crusades are not only as despicable, they are more. Don't let that make you rest at night.
 
2012-03-04 01:06:45 PM  

proteus_b: are you going to condemn the millions killed by christian crusades? the millions who suffered from the forced conversion by catholics in south and central america, africa, south asia, etc. etc.? the millions slaughtered by hindus? by buddhists? animists?


I must've missed all those Fark threads, or you would've seen me in there attacking those actions as well.

But seriously, when was the last time a crusade article popped up here?
 
2012-03-04 01:07:31 PM  

AndreMA: How about you give a simple one-sentence answer


Newsflash: most questions in life cannot be answered with a simple bullet point.

It's quite revealing that this is what you'd expect, however.
 
2012-03-04 01:10:59 PM  
The Catholics can learn a thing or two from the jews: ritualize the pedophile perversion and you don't have to worry about moving your cardinals all over the country like they're in the witness protection program.
 
2012-03-04 01:12:37 PM  

9beers: Ow My Balls: When our son was born, the doctor was going down his checklist of usual items in a matter of routine, and got to, "...will you want him circumcised?"

We said, "No."

He stopped dead in his tracks, looked up from his paper into our eyes and said a heartfelt, "Good for you. That's a lot more unusual here in the midwest..."

Not one single problem with son's little member, and there has been no maintenance or anything.

Your kid is going to hate you when he becomes an adult.


MIne doesn't and he is 20, and apparently quite functional and clean, so he says. His girlfriend of 4 years doesn't seem particularly upset with his bits being in their original configuration.
 
2012-03-04 01:12:50 PM  
Religion: Is there any discussing behavior they can't justify?

/Or haven't already justified?
 
2012-03-04 01:14:23 PM  

proteus_b: Salt Lick Steady: Any one should be concerned, jewish or not, that you allow - nay, praise - this practice.

i have not allowed or praised the practice. i was circumcised at birth (in that hospital, incidentally).

there are proportionate levels of concern. i was joking as much as you were when i referred to "inferior gentiles". many of my friends are christian, some even rather devout. i am not religous. amos quito shows a disproportionate amount of concern for what happens in the jewish community. it's unlikely that he's a large fan of hindus, muslims, mexicans, blacks, or any number of other groups. but he is in particular very very concerned about what jews do. he will frequently claim that he is merely concerned about human rights abuses committed by the state of israel.

i trust that you are not an anti-semite and merely sick of people over-playing the "jew card". that's a reasonable view. people like amos quito, who seem to spend every waking hour worrying about the latest threat to humanity posed by jews, do not hold reasonable views.



I am a harsh critic of Zionism and the influence that Zionists - inside AND outside of Israel have on the world at large and the US in particular.

If I seem to be disproportionately concerned with Zionists (which you and your ilk insist on twisting into J00S), it is because Zionists and the Zionist State have a disproportionately strong and, IMO, NEGATIVE (bad) influence on the affairs of my nation and the world at large.

Right now your Fearless Leader Bibi is in my country lobbying his ass off to try to con the US into starting WWIII for the benefit of the Zionist State - I don't like war, especially when it is prosecuted unjustly using lies, deception, trickery and political pressure - and for the benefit of a shiatt little country that has brought NOTHING BUT TROUBLE to the region AND the planet since long before it was declared a nation.

I don't biatch about Haiti, Iceland, New Zealand, the Philippines, etc because they're not constantly raising hell and creating a ruckus with the whole planet, are they?

You call me a Jew-hater because it's the only defense you have. You can't deny the shait that the Zionists constantly stir up, and you can't rationalize it, so your only option is your pathetic and dishonest ad hominem assaults.

Have a nice day.
 
2012-03-04 01:14:40 PM  

BurnShrike: Human rights issues affect all of us. That's why they're called human rights, and not Jewish rights.


yes, and in this sense i have no problem with people condemning this ritual. but according to its level of barbarity, and the proportional amount of barbarity in the world. some people spend an inordinate amount of time condemning jews, jewish rituals, and the jewish state. none of those things are beyond reproach, but let's be reasonable about the level of criticism we level.

in the same year that this child died, 40,000 americans will be killed in car accidents. a large number of those, if not almost all of them, could have been directly avoided if only people could be bothered to pay attention to the road, not drive in an extraordinarily intoxicated state, or to not drive aggressively. should we have 40,000 fark threads wherein we condemn americans as a bunch of indifferent scum?
 
2012-03-04 01:15:05 PM  
Tatsuma proteus_b: no, you reserve your condemnation for the jews. i know that it's time that someone finally stood up and condemned the jews---a group which has gotten off scot free in all their history. for this we thank you. thank you for bringing the matter to our attention.

Oh come on, haven't you seen him tirelessly advocating for the life of the ten thousand syrians who have been killed so far?

He will not rest until justice is rendered!


I can't do anything about the situation in Syria. But, as an American of Jewish ancestry, I can stand up and say to various levels of government: most of us (Americans of Jewish ancestry) think metzitzeh b'peh is a barbaric ritual. Please ban it, or at least use existing laws to stop it. It's amazing that those of us who want to save the lives of Jewish children are called Nazis. The irony is amazing.
 
2012-03-04 01:16:36 PM  

Tatsuma: Newsflash: most questions in life cannot be answered with a simple bullet point.


No, but you can still be tasked to give us the summary of something you read, and it's a reasonable expectation to make of any scholarly mind (those of us who've been to college will find this exercise as natural and reflexive as breathing). The fact that you can't do this implicates your capacity for basic reading comprehension.

The fact that you won't do this implicates your motives in suggesting it in the first place- or in layman's terms, you can offer no possible benefit for this practice (that being not only the circumcision, but the sucking of blood from the penis) that would withstand anything remotely resembling medical scrutiny.

Like most sham artists, your response is to misdirect instead of justify.
 
2012-03-04 01:16:41 PM  

EvilEgg: ShawnDoc: Lionel Mandrake: I don't think Christians suck infant cock, but then again, I'm not a Christian.

Its only the Catholics who do it. And depending on the denomination of the Christian you ask, Catholics may or may not be considered Christian.

Why wouldn't Catholics be Christians? Aren't they the original ones and all the rest are splinter groups off of them.


I knew some very fundamental christians who view Catholics as the personification of satan. They really think that Catholics are the anti-christ.
 
2012-03-04 01:17:27 PM  

BurnShrike: I must've missed all those Fark threads, or you would've seen me in there attacking those actions as well.


i was not addressing you, but rather amos quito, the "critic of zionism", who doesn't want the jews to live in israel, and doesn't want them to live anywhere else either. i take no issue with your comments.

Amos Quito: Right now your Fearless Leader Bibi is in my country lobbying his ass off to try to con the US into starting WWIII for the benefit of the Zionist State


the united states is threatening iran because it wishes to control the persian gulf.
 
2012-03-04 01:18:46 PM  
any 'religion' that has rituals with mutilation, pedo, sucking blood from dick of baby is a farking joke.

There can't be any other statement.

If they are so insistent on it being done, then they need to have it done by a medical professional in a hospital setting.

They either new to remove that aspect from their religion, or be sent to jail with sandusky
 
2012-03-04 01:18:47 PM  

proteus_b: in the same year that this child died, 40,000 americans will be killed in car accidents. a large number of those, if not almost all of them, could have been directly avoided if only people could be bothered to pay attention to the road, not drive in an extraordinarily intoxicated state, or to not drive aggressively. should we have 40,000 fark threads wherein we condemn americans as a bunch of indifferent scum?


When a drunk driving thread does show up, there are always people commenting on it. The difference is that in a drunk driving thread you don't have people coming in to defend their [religious] right to drink and drive, and that if you question their right you're bashing them or showing religious intolerance.
 
2012-03-04 01:18:55 PM  

LMark: most of us (Americans of Jewish ancestry) think metzitzeh b'peh is a barbaric ritual. Please ban it, or at least use existing laws to stop it. It's amazing that those of us who want to save the lives of Jewish children are called Nazis.


Oh please. The vast vast vast majority of Jews in America get a brit milah for their sons, and all of them involve metzitzah through a tube, and no one is protesting that.

And 'saving the lives of Jewish children'? There are about 1 death like this every couple of years at most. If you want to save the lives of many many many children, start fighting so doctors and nurses in hospitals wash their hands correctly, something which causes tens of thousands of death every year.
 
2012-03-04 01:19:28 PM  

LMark: Tatsuma proteus_b: no, you reserve your condemnation for the jews. i know that it's time that someone finally stood up and condemned the jews---a group which has gotten off scot free in all their history. for this we thank you. thank you for bringing the matter to our attention.

Oh come on, haven't you seen him tirelessly advocating for the life of the ten thousand syrians who have been killed so far?

He will not rest until justice is rendered!

I can't do anything about the situation in Syria. But, as an American of Jewish ancestry, I can stand up and say to various levels of government: most of us (Americans of Jewish ancestry) think metzitzeh b'peh is a barbaric ritual. Please ban it, or at least use existing laws to stop it. It's amazing that those of us who want to save the lives of Jewish children are called Nazis. The irony is amazing.


Don't bring the state into this.
 
2012-03-04 01:20:54 PM  

Tatsuma: And 'saving the lives of Jewish children'? There are about 1 death like this every couple of years at most. If you want to save the lives of many many many children, start fighting so doctors and nurses in hospitals wash their hands correctly, something which causes tens of thousands of death every year.


Maybe more doctors and nurses should start using their mouths instead. It's apparently a perfectly acceptable way to do things.
 
2012-03-04 01:20:59 PM  

SkunkWerks: No, but you can still be tasked to give us the summary of something you read, and it's a reasonable expectation to make of any scholarly mind (those of us who've been to college will find this exercise as natural and reflexive as breathing).


I'm sorry, but I don't believe anyone who has been to college will struggle reading an article the length that I posted.

If you need to spend 5-10 minutes to educate about something, and instead you throw a hissy fit and say you want a bullet point to sum it up, you're not interested enough for me to care.
 
2012-03-04 01:22:00 PM  

BurnShrike: Maybe more doctors and nurses should start using their mouths instead. It's apparently a perfectly acceptable way to do things.


They already use pumps, which is a perfectly acceptable alternative. They also use clamps, which is different than cutting.
 
2012-03-04 01:23:08 PM  

thistime: any 'religion' that has rituals with mutilation, pedo, sucking blood from dick of baby is a farking joke.

There can't be any other statement.

If they are so insistent on it being done, then they need to have it done by a medical professional in a hospital setting.

They either new to remove that aspect from their religion, or be sent to jail with sandusky


Nope. My religion is not subservient to your sexual fantasies involving infants. We have mohels perform circumcisions, not doctors, as what doctors do in a hospital is not a genuine religious circumcision.

As to removing an aspect of my religion, it doesn't work that way.
 
2012-03-04 01:23:30 PM  

BurnShrike: When a drunk driving thread does show up, there are always people commenting on it. The difference is that in a drunk driving thread you don't have people coming in to defend their [religious] right to drink and drive, and that if you question their right you're bashing them or showing religious intolerance.


actually there usually are people who defend their right to drink "but just a bit", or to do all kinds of other things. and then there are plenty who do them anyways but don't post about that in fark. and you're currently arguing with someone who is opposed to the kind of circumcision detailed in the article, ambivalent about the practice in general, and only pointing out that jews are disproportionately criticized. i don't care whether or not people respect the torah or judaism, but i also have to point out that i have a relative whose common ancestor with myself was born in 1785. i am one of his closest living relatives. that's farked up.
 
2012-03-04 01:23:34 PM  
I am guessing this happened outside of a hospital or valid medical clinic, but if this shiat is covered by health insurance in any way, while birth control isn't in many cases, I'm going to go ballistic
 
2012-03-04 01:25:02 PM  
Immediately after incising or injuring an artery, the arterial walls contract and obstruct, or at least reduce, the flow of blood. Since the arterioles of the orlah, or the foreskin, branch off from the dorsal arteries (the arteries of the upper side of the organ), cutting away the foreskin can result in a temporary obstruction in these dorsal arteries. This temporary obstruction, caused by arterial muscle contraction, continues to develop into a more enduring blockage as the stationary blood begins to clot. The tragic result can be severe hypoxia (deprivation of the supply of blood and oxygen) of the glans penis. If the arterial obstruction becomes more permanent, gangrene follows; the baby may lose his glans, and it may even become a life-threatening situation. Such cases have been known to occur.

Only by immediately clearing the blockage can one prevent such clotting from happening. Performing metzitzah immediately after circumcision lowers the internal pressure within the tissues and blood vessels of the glans, thus raising the pressure gradient between the blood vessels at the base of the organ and the blood vessels at its distal end-the glans as well as the excised arterioles of the foreskin, which branch off of the dorsal arteries. This increase in pressure gradient (by a factor of four to six) can resolve an acute temporary blockage and restore blood flow to the glans, thus significantly reducing both the danger of immediate, acute hypoxia and the danger of developing a permanent obstruction by means of coagulation. How do we know when a temporary blockage has successfully been averted? When the "blood in the further reaches [i.e., the proximal dorsal artery] is extracted," as Rambam has stated.


because apparently 'scholarly minds' can't spend 5 minutes to educate themselves about something
 
2012-03-04 01:25:05 PM  

Urbn: I am guessing this happened outside of a hospital or valid medical clinic, but if this shiat is covered by health insurance in any way, while birth control isn't in many cases, I'm going to go ballistic


Not covered by insurance.
 
2012-03-04 01:27:41 PM &nbs