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(Talking Points Memo)   Republican indicted for voter fraud for trying to register his dog as Democrat...to demonstrate how easy it is to commit voter fraud   (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 174
    More: Fail, Republican, Democrats, Ryan J. Reilly, county clerk, fraud  
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3535 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Mar 2012 at 5:57 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-01 03:22:30 PM
You mean voter REGISTRATION fraud. I'm thinking the dog won't get to actually cast a ballot.
 
2012-03-01 03:25:31 PM
Rick Santorum warned us people would be marrying their dogs and making them vote Democrat!
 
2012-03-01 03:27:40 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Rick Santorum warned us people would be marrying their dogs and making them vote Democrat!


I thought it was box turtles?

/I just can't keep up with the derp.
 
2012-03-01 03:28:27 PM
Because cats would vote Republican. They're assholes like that.
 
2012-03-01 03:31:03 PM

The Onanist: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Rick Santorum warned us people would be marrying their dogs and making them vote Democrat!

I thought it was box turtles?

/I just can't keep up with the derp.


No. That was box OF turtles and it related to Mormonism's polygamy.

/rah, rah, rah.
 
2012-03-01 03:31:25 PM
And he would have gotten away with it if not for those pesky kids!

I expect he'll argue that he shouldn't be charged since technically his dog is the one who's fraudulently registered.
 
2012-03-01 03:32:45 PM
Your clever plan... you have not thought it through
 
2012-03-01 03:37:43 PM
It's also pretty easy to defraud Medicare for a certain amount of time.

That's a crime too, by the way.
 
2012-03-01 03:38:09 PM
Wow, congratulations. You will surely revolutionize voting in America

I guess I missed the part about him being indicted, though
 
2012-03-01 03:39:57 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: I expect he'll argue that he shouldn't be charged since technically his dog is the one who's fraudulently registered.


Won't work though... else you could fraudulently register whoever you want and say, hey, it's these imaginary folks that are fraudulently registered, not me!
 
2012-03-01 03:40:08 PM

I_Am_Weasel: No. That was box OF turtles and it related to Mormonism's polygamy.


DOH! Thanks for clearing that up for me.
 
2012-03-01 03:43:19 PM
"Ladies and gentleman of the jury, I think we can all plainly see that this merely a case of my client herping when he clearly meant to derp. As such, can we really hold him responsible? How can we do so, when there is so much a-herpin' and a-derpin' that he does every day? I ask you all to find my client not guilty on the grounds that he is, in fact, a Republican."

i628.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-01 03:43:21 PM
so where i live, you don't have to show any id to vote. if i successfully registered my dog to vote with the intent of voting under my dog's name, isn't the registration really the only layer of verification that exists to stop voter fraud?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-03-01 03:43:56 PM
Now he can demonstrate how cushy and comfortable bleeding heart liberals have made PMITA prison.
 
2012-03-01 03:51:40 PM
F*ck, this country is virtually under attack by Republican stupidity.
 
2012-03-01 04:02:30 PM
Looks like we've found Breitbart's successor.
 
2012-03-01 04:03:11 PM

sigdiamond2000: Looks like we've found Breitbart's successor.


dogs can't blog.
 
2012-03-01 04:17:45 PM

thomps: so where i live, you don't have to show any id to vote. if i successfully registered my dog to vote with the intent of voting under my dog's name, isn't the registration really the only layer of verification that exists to stop voter fraud?


Do you really need to pull a stupid stunt and break the law to demonstrate it if it's true?
 
2012-03-01 04:19:29 PM

The Onanist: You mean voter REGISTRATION fraud. I'm thinking the dog won't get to actually cast a ballot.


THANK YOU! Came in here just for that & am happy it was done in one.
 
2012-03-01 04:19:57 PM

Peter von Nostrand: thomps: so where i live, you don't have to show any id to vote. if i successfully registered my dog to vote with the intent of voting under my dog's name, isn't the registration really the only layer of verification that exists to stop voter fraud?

Do you really need to pull a stupid stunt and break the law to demonstrate it if it's true?


i'm not saying the guy wasn't a moron, i'm just saying that in most cases making the distinction between voter registration fraud and voter fraud isn't relevant if registration is the only step of the process where potential fraud can be detected and prevented.
 
2012-03-01 04:22:56 PM

thomps: dogs can't blog.


Yes, this is dog blog.
 
2012-03-01 04:25:40 PM
Rub the guy's nose in it.
 
2012-03-01 04:27:49 PM

thomps: so where i live, you don't have to show any id to vote. if i successfully registered my dog to vote with the intent of voting under my dog's name, isn't the registration really the only layer of verification that exists to stop voter fraud?


Your state doesn't require ANY proof of who you are & that you live where you say you do when you register? Not even a utility bill?

I don't have to show ID to vote, either, but I did when I first registered. (NJ will accept everything from a driver's license to a rent receipt as proof when you register).
 
2012-03-01 04:30:57 PM

brigid_fitch: thomps: so where i live, you don't have to show any id to vote. if i successfully registered my dog to vote with the intent of voting under my dog's name, isn't the registration really the only layer of verification that exists to stop voter fraud?

Your state doesn't require ANY proof of who you are & that you live where you say you do when you register? Not even a utility bill?

I don't have to show ID to vote, either, but I did when I first registered. (NJ will accept everything from a driver's license to a rent receipt as proof when you register).


i don't think so. last time i voted i walked up to the registration table, told the guy my name, and was handed a ballot and an "i voted today" sticker. obviously i could be misremembering, though.
 
2012-03-01 04:39:46 PM

thomps: brigid_fitch: thomps: so where i live, you don't have to show any id to vote. if i successfully registered my dog to vote with the intent of voting under my dog's name, isn't the registration really the only layer of verification that exists to stop voter fraud?

Your state doesn't require ANY proof of who you are & that you live where you say you do when you register? Not even a utility bill?

I don't have to show ID to vote, either, but I did when I first registered. (NJ will accept everything from a driver's license to a rent receipt as proof when you register).

i don't think so. last time i voted i walked up to the registration table, told the guy my name, and was handed a ballot and an "i voted today" sticker. obviously i could be misremembering, though.


Sounds like your state doesn't require ID when you vote, but you most likely needed something when you first registered. You probably registered a while ago & just don't remember what you presented. I *think* I used my driver's license (since it's always in my purse, anyway), but it was 12 years ago. Now I just walk in, give them my name, sign the book, and vote.
 
2012-03-01 04:43:01 PM
"I mean, it's so easy to commit bank robbery. I had this gun, it wasn't even loaded, but the teller just handed me a bunch of cash. I think it speaks to the failure of law enforcement to have stopped me, anybody could have just walked into any bank and...you hear something? Anyway, it's Obama's fault."
 
2012-03-01 04:44:29 PM

brigid_fitch: thomps: brigid_fitch: thomps: so where i live, you don't have to show any id to vote. if i successfully registered my dog to vote with the intent of voting under my dog's name, isn't the registration really the only layer of verification that exists to stop voter fraud?

Your state doesn't require ANY proof of who you are & that you live where you say you do when you register? Not even a utility bill?

I don't have to show ID to vote, either, but I did when I first registered. (NJ will accept everything from a driver's license to a rent receipt as proof when you register).

i don't think so. last time i voted i walked up to the registration table, told the guy my name, and was handed a ballot and an "i voted today" sticker. obviously i could be misremembering, though.

Sounds like your state doesn't require ID when you vote, but you most likely needed something when you first registered. You probably registered a while ago & just don't remember what you presented. I *think* I used my driver's license (since it's always in my purse, anyway), but it was 12 years ago. Now I just walk in, give them my name, sign the book, and vote.


that's my point though - if you don't need identification to vote, the only time to stop fraud is at registration. clearly that's not happening, at least in the state where this dude and his dog live.
 
2012-03-01 04:58:13 PM

The Onanist: You mean voter REGISTRATION fraud. I'm thinking the dog won't get to actually cast a ballot.


No, but the guy could cast a ballot in the dog's name, which would, in fact, be voter fraud.
 
2012-03-01 05:00:19 PM

thomps: that's my point though - if you don't need identification to vote, the only time to stop fraud is at registration. clearly that's not happening, at least in the state where this dude and his dog live.


You don't know much about dogs, it seems. Dogs will vote for anyone that is anti-cat, or anyone that uses the special dog-whistle that indicates they are anti-cat. This is a well-accepted practice.

But can you really blame them? All cats do is lie around all day on their fat asses, licking their big lips after getting another handout from "master". And don't get me started with those calico cats... they're just trouble. You can tell they are just eye-balling you, waiting for the dog to move from master's bed so they can weasel their way in.

So, if you don't want your wife to be accosted in her bed by some colored animal, you'll vote dog.
 
2012-03-01 05:08:37 PM
SEE? As soon as you allow the gays to marry, the dogs get to vote. THIS OBAMAS AMERICA
 
2012-03-01 05:09:22 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: thomps: dogs can't blog.

Yes, this is dog blog.


I preferred when we would lob law bombs on Bob Loblaw's Law Blog.
 
2012-03-01 05:11:27 PM

SilentStrider: The Onanist: You mean voter REGISTRATION fraud. I'm thinking the dog won't get to actually cast a ballot.

No, but the guy could cast a ballot in the dog's name, which would, in fact, be voter fraud.


This would probably only be possible if you lived in a state that did not require ID to register to vote AND did not require ID to vote.
 
2012-03-01 05:11:52 PM

thomps: brigid_fitch: thomps: brigid_fitch: thomps: so where i live, you don't have to show any id to vote. if i successfully registered my dog to vote with the intent of voting under my dog's name, isn't the registration really the only layer of verification that exists to stop voter fraud?

Your state doesn't require ANY proof of who you are & that you live where you say you do when you register? Not even a utility bill?

I don't have to show ID to vote, either, but I did when I first registered. (NJ will accept everything from a driver's license to a rent receipt as proof when you register).

i don't think so. last time i voted i walked up to the registration table, told the guy my name, and was handed a ballot and an "i voted today" sticker. obviously i could be misremembering, though.

Sounds like your state doesn't require ID when you vote, but you most likely needed something when you first registered. You probably registered a while ago & just don't remember what you presented. I *think* I used my driver's license (since it's always in my purse, anyway), but it was 12 years ago. Now I just walk in, give them my name, sign the book, and vote.

that's my point though - if you don't need identification to vote, the only time to stop fraud is at registration. clearly that's not happening, at least in the state where this dude and his dog live.


And we're right back to the Boobies in the thread. This is not voter fraud. Voter fraud is when someone who shouldn't be able to vote ACTUALLY VOTES. This was voter REGISTRATION fraud, in that someone knowingly submitted a fraudulent REGISTRATION form.

The reason it was caught was because nobody could produce ID for the person on the form, in this case, the doofus' dog.

See the difference?
 
2012-03-01 05:13:33 PM

Lando Lincoln: SilentStrider: The Onanist: You mean voter REGISTRATION fraud. I'm thinking the dog won't get to actually cast a ballot.

No, but the guy could cast a ballot in the dog's name, which would, in fact, be voter fraud.

This would probably only be possible if you lived in a state that did not require ID to register to vote AND did not require ID to vote.


apparently in new mexico, all you have to do to identify yourself at the ballot is to state your name, address, and year of birth...
 
2012-03-01 05:14:36 PM

brigid_fitch: The reason it was caught was because nobody could produce ID for the person on the form, in this case, the doofus' dog.


the reason it was caught is because the doofus went on the news and bragged about committing registration fraud. from my quick read of tfa, there's no indication that they would have detected the fraud otherwise.
 
2012-03-01 05:21:43 PM

thomps: Lando Lincoln: SilentStrider: The Onanist: You mean voter REGISTRATION fraud. I'm thinking the dog won't get to actually cast a ballot.

No, but the guy could cast a ballot in the dog's name, which would, in fact, be voter fraud.

This would probably only be possible if you lived in a state that did not require ID to register to vote AND did not require ID to vote.

apparently in new mexico, all you have to do to identify yourself at the ballot is to state your name, address, and year of birth...


Two separate places.

1) Place where you register to vote
2) Place where you vote

I don't think that there's any states out there that require no ID in either place.
 
2012-03-01 05:23:52 PM

Lando Lincoln: thomps: Lando Lincoln: SilentStrider: The Onanist: You mean voter REGISTRATION fraud. I'm thinking the dog won't get to actually cast a ballot.

No, but the guy could cast a ballot in the dog's name, which would, in fact, be voter fraud.

This would probably only be possible if you lived in a state that did not require ID to register to vote AND did not require ID to vote.

apparently in new mexico, all you have to do to identify yourself at the ballot is to state your name, address, and year of birth...

Two separate places.

1) Place where you register to vote
2) Place where you vote

I don't think that there's any states out there that require no ID in either place.


right, my point is, though, if there is only one place where identification is required, and that place sucks dicks at properly identifying fraud, then that state has a high potential for fraud, right? just becuase this guy is a moron doesn't mean the state's voter registration verification isn't suspect.
 
2012-03-01 05:25:57 PM

thomps: that's my point though - if you don't need identification to vote, the only time to stop fraud is at registration. clearly that's not happening, at least in the state where this dude and his dog live.


Well, this idle speculation is fine and all, but let's go to the tape...

Article states the guy is from New Mexico. Looking at NM requirements (new window), in 2005 they started requiring photo ID at the time of voting. This was relaxed in 2008. So no ID is required at time of voting, provided you are registered.

However, referring to the NM secretary of state's voter registration FAQ (new window), Photo ID, or one of several other forms of valid identification (up to, and including, a sworn affidavit without proof) is a requirement at the time of registration.

I hope this injection of facts is helpful.
 
2012-03-01 05:28:06 PM

thomps: brigid_fitch: The reason it was caught was because nobody could produce ID for the person on the form, in this case, the doofus' dog.

the reason it was caught is because the doofus went on the news and bragged about committing registration fraud. from my quick read of tfa, there's no indication that they would have detected the fraud otherwise.


It looks like it was caught early because said doofus went to the media. From the NM Voter Registration info page, it looks like it would have eventually been caught, anyway.

As used in the Election Code, "required voter identification' forms of identification as chosen by the voter: (A) a physical form of identification, which may be: (1) an original or copy of a current and valid photo identification with or without an address, which address is not required to match the voter's certificate of registration or a voter identification card: or (2) an original or copy of a utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, student identification card or other government document, including identification issued by an Indian nation, tribe or pueblo, that shows the name and address of the person, the address of which is not required to match the voter's certificate of registration; or (B) a verbal or written statement by the voter of the voter's name, year of birth and registered address; provided, however, that the statement of the voter's name need not contain the voter's middle initial or suffix.
* If a voter fails to provide the required voter identification, the voter shall be allowed to vote on a provisional ballot.
* Each application for an absentee ballot shall be subscribed by the applicant and shall require the applicant's printed name, year of birth and registered address to be supplied by the applicant, which shall constitute the required form of identification.
* A first time registrant who submits the registration by mail may only use options under (A)(1) and (A)(2).


tl;dr: NM requires some form of ID when registering. If the person doesn't produce it at that time, they get a provisional ballot & the registration info is checked then.
 
2012-03-01 05:28:58 PM

unyon: thomps: that's my point though - if you don't need identification to vote, the only time to stop fraud is at registration. clearly that's not happening, at least in the state where this dude and his dog live.

Well, this idle speculation is fine and all, but let's go to the tape...

Article states the guy is from New Mexico. Looking at NM requirements (new window), in 2005 they started requiring photo ID at the time of voting. This was relaxed in 2008. So no ID is required at time of voting, provided you are registered.

However, referring to the NM secretary of state's voter registration FAQ (new window), Photo ID, or one of several other forms of valid identification (up to, and including, a sworn affidavit without proof) is a requirement at the time of registration.

I hope this injection of facts is helpful.


sweet christ, i'm not trying to conjure up a conspiracy here, i'm just saying that if this dude could get his dog registered without incident and there is no system for checking people's identity at the poll (aside from signing your name without proof) then there is potential for voter fraud that should be addressed somehow.

is this really a controversial stance?
 
2012-03-01 05:32:01 PM

thomps: and there is no system for checking people's identity at the poll (aside from signing your name without proof)


When I sign my name, my signature from when I originally registered is in the book & the volunteers compare them.
 
2012-03-01 05:33:13 PM

brigid_fitch: thomps: and there is no system for checking people's identity at the poll (aside from signing your name without proof)

When I sign my name, my signature from when I originally registered is in the book & the volunteers compare them.


ok but if you signed your name as "buddy the dog" both times, they will match, right?
 
2012-03-01 05:35:32 PM

thomps: brigid_fitch: thomps: and there is no system for checking people's identity at the poll (aside from signing your name without proof)

When I sign my name, my signature from when I originally registered is in the book & the volunteers compare them.

ok but if you signed your name as "buddy the dog" both times, they will match, right?


Dogs don't have thumbs. How could they hold the pen?
 
2012-03-01 05:36:31 PM

thomps: is this really a controversial stance?


No, you actually make a fair point. I would have thought someone would catch the lack of ID when he first registered but, from what I read in the NM voter registration faq's, you can get around that w/a provisional ballot. And if the registrant's eligibility can't be proven by the time they get around to the provisional ballots (usually a few days after the election), it's thrown out. So the guy in TFA really didn't prove anything more than the fact that he's a moron. And will now probably go to jail.
 
2012-03-01 05:37:00 PM

Cubansaltyballs: thomps: brigid_fitch: thomps: and there is no system for checking people's identity at the poll (aside from signing your name without proof)

When I sign my name, my signature from when I originally registered is in the book & the volunteers compare them.

ok but if you signed your name as "buddy the dog" both times, they will match, right?

Dogs don't have thumbs. How could they hold the pen?


i don't know, but i'm certain ACORN is involved somehow.
 
2012-03-01 05:38:43 PM

thomps: Cubansaltyballs: thomps: brigid_fitch: thomps: and there is no system for checking people's identity at the poll (aside from signing your name without proof)

When I sign my name, my signature from when I originally registered is in the book & the volunteers compare them.

ok but if you signed your name as "buddy the dog" both times, they will match, right?

Dogs don't have thumbs. How could they hold the pen?

i don't know, but i'm certain ACORN is involved somehow.


Only if the dog is a black lab.
 
2012-03-01 05:39:49 PM

brigid_fitch: thomps: is this really a controversial stance?

No, you actually make a fair point. I would have thought someone would catch the lack of ID when he first registered but, from what I read in the NM voter registration faq's, you can get around that w/a provisional ballot. And if the registrant's eligibility can't be proven by the time they get around to the provisional ballots (usually a few days after the election), it's thrown out. So the guy in TFA really didn't prove anything more than the fact that he's a moron. And will now probably go to jail.


wait, so if you've got a valid registration but no id at the poll, you just get a provisional ballot that gets verified later? i guess that's an additional layer of control...
 
2012-03-01 05:40:24 PM

Cubansaltyballs: thomps: Cubansaltyballs: thomps: brigid_fitch: thomps: and there is no system for checking people's identity at the poll (aside from signing your name without proof)

When I sign my name, my signature from when I originally registered is in the book & the volunteers compare them.

ok but if you signed your name as "buddy the dog" both times, they will match, right?

Dogs don't have thumbs. How could they hold the pen?

i don't know, but i'm certain ACORN is involved somehow.

Only if the dog is a black lab.


SEIU union pugs
 
2012-03-01 05:44:13 PM

thomps: is this really a controversial stance?


No, you were asking a useful question. There just seemed to be some debate about when and where ID was required in the registration and voting processes, which I aimed to clarify.

That said, it doesn't say who checks the ID at time of registration. If it's not an election official, but rather a potentially partisan individual at the point of registration, then there is an opportunity for shenanigans.

Alternatively, it looks like a sworn affidavit is sufficient. So, provided you are prepared to lie under oath, it's possible you may in fact manage to vote more than once on my reading.
 
2012-03-01 05:50:35 PM
Dog suffrage now!
 
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