"I didn't want to pick up the pace because I didn't see the need for the girls to run around," Notre Dame coach Nicole Levandusky said of the Bluebirds stalling strategy. "I thought we might as well stay back and wait on them to play."

And this is why women shouldn't coach

Highlands, you suck. If your main goal in playing a playoff game is forty minutes of farking keep-away, then you don't belong fielding a team. And as for the Pandas? WTF? You fell for that?!

Do they not have a shot clock in the league?

Fisse held the ball for two minutes on Highlands' first possession.

Is there not shot clock in this league or something? I'm pretty sure most HS teams play with a shot clock (might be 45 seconds or something, but, certainly not 2 minutes).

I mean, if there is not shot clock, then, yeah, duh... NBA had crazy low scores back in the 50s as well until they figured out you need to somehow force a team to try to shoot.

dletter: Fisse held the ball for two minutes on Highlands' first possession.

Is there not shot clock in this league or something? I'm pretty sure most HS teams play with a shot clock (might be 45 seconds or something, but, certainly not 2 minutes).

I mean, if there is not shot clock, then, yeah, duh... NBA had crazy low scores back in the 50s as well until they figured out you need to somehow force a team to try to shoot.

Perhaps it was a total of two minutes for her over several possessions

ArkAngel: dletter: Fisse held the ball for two minutes on Highlands' first possession.

Is there not shot clock in this league or something? I'm pretty sure most HS teams play with a shot clock (might be 45 seconds or something, but, certainly not 2 minutes).

I mean, if there is not shot clock, then, yeah, duh... NBA had crazy low scores back in the 50s as well until they figured out you need to somehow force a team to try to shoot.

Perhaps it was a total of two minutes for her over several possessions

That would contradict the wording "on Highlands' first possession".... although small town newspaper sports writers are not well known for getting the facts straight 100% of the time.

They attempted one shot in the first half? How do you expect to win without shooting?

ZAZ: Do they not have a shot clock in the league?

I was keeping score for girls basketball for a while... many of the gyms were not equipped to handle a shot clock, and thus even if the league rules stated there was to be a shot clock, it often went unused. Not that the girls teams would use a whole shot clock most of the time.

A better question might be, "how did they managed to hold the ball for 4 minutes without violating the 5 second rule or committing a turnover?".

You'd figure that unless they're the Harlem Globetrotters (or the defense is wholly uninterested in playing defense) you'd have a pass picked off or somebody would get trapped or a ball would get tipped out of bounds.

SlothB77: They attempted one shot in the first half? How do you expect to win without shooting?

Well, if you're the only person to shoot....

But yeah, this is not a good style of basketball.

Treygreen13: ZAZ: Do they not have a shot clock in the league?

I was keeping score for girls basketball for a while... many of the gyms were not equipped to handle a shot clock, and thus even if the league rules stated there was to be a shot clock, it often went unused. Not that the girls teams would use a whole shot clock most of the time.

A better question might be, "how did they managed to hold the ball for 4 minutes without violating the 5 second rule or committing a turnover?".

You'd figure that unless they're the Harlem Globetrotters (or the defense is wholly uninterested in playing defense) you'd have a pass picked off or somebody would get trapped or a ball would get tipped out of bounds.

it appears the other team figured out the strategy, so they decided not to play defense and just let the team hold the ball. If it were me, i'd press the shiate out of them since they are admitting they can't run with me and I know they won't shoot.

dletter: ArkAngel: dletter: Fisse held the ball for two minutes on Highlands' first possession.

Is there not shot clock in this league or something? I'm pretty sure most HS teams play with a shot clock (might be 45 seconds or something, but, certainly not 2 minutes).

I mean, if there is not shot clock, then, yeah, duh... NBA had crazy low scores back in the 50s as well until they figured out you need to somehow force a team to try to shoot.

Perhaps it was a total of two minutes for her over several possessions

That would contradict the wording "on Highlands' first possession".... although small town newspaper sports writers are not well known for getting the facts straight 100% of the time.

What I meant was that she had several possessions (with passes to teammates) in the first team possession

SlothB77: Treygreen13: ZAZ: Do they not have a shot clock in the league?

I was keeping score for girls basketball for a while... many of the gyms were not equipped to handle a shot clock, and thus even if the league rules stated there was to be a shot clock, it often went unused. Not that the girls teams would use a whole shot clock most of the time.

A better question might be, "how did they managed to hold the ball for 4 minutes without violating the 5 second rule or committing a turnover?".

You'd figure that unless they're the Harlem Globetrotters (or the defense is wholly uninterested in playing defense) you'd have a pass picked off or somebody would get trapped or a ball would get tipped out of bounds.

it appears the other team figured out the strategy, so they decided not to play defense and just let the team hold the ball. If it were me, i'd press the shiate out of them since they are admitting they can't run with me and I know they won't shoot.

I don't know why teams don't bring the full court press more. An NBA point guard can deal with a one-man press and still set up an offense but at the lower levels putting a capable defender on a point guard and playing him aggressively all the way down the court can really screw up an offensive gameplan. Especially if they can funnel the PG down either line and then bring another defender up to trap just after they cross half-court. That's a turnover factory.

ArkAngel: dletter: ArkAngel: dletter: Fisse held the ball for two minutes on Highlands' first possession.

Is there not shot clock in this league or something? I'm pretty sure most HS teams play with a shot clock (might be 45 seconds or something, but, certainly not 2 minutes).

I mean, if there is not shot clock, then, yeah, duh... NBA had crazy low scores back in the 50s as well until they figured out you need to somehow force a team to try to shoot.

Perhaps it was a total of two minutes for her over several possessions

That would contradict the wording "on Highlands' first possession".... although small town newspaper sports writers are not well known for getting the facts straight 100% of the time.

What I meant was that she had several possessions (with passes to teammates) in the first team possession

Well, that might be the case.... I certainly didn't mean a "personal" possession, I meant the "team" possession of the ball, which was apparently over two minutes, and which meant there was no shot clock being followed.

And, "not having a working shot clock" in the gym seems like a weak excuse.... one of the ref's could easily be in charge of the shot clock with a timed watch and could yell out when it got down to 10 or 5 seconds left.

LarryDan43: You hard foul until the other team is afraid to hold the ball.

That's exactly what they want, though. Plus, girls basketball referees will easily T-up anyone for violent play. It's not like the Men's game.

I like sports, I like girls, and I like jokes. Girls' sports are a joke. What's not to like?

dletter: And, "not having a working shot clock" in the gym seems like a weak excuse.... one of the ref's could easily be in charge of the shot clock with a timed watch and could yell out when it got down to 10 or 5 seconds left.

I've never seen a referee keeping a shot clock. Any system that depends on a girls basketball referee warning the players verbally about a shot clock is doomed to failure. Even when you have a working shot clock in a high school or lower girls basketball game, it's generally a clusterfark.

When I was keeping, if there wasn't a shot clock device of some kind, we never used a shot clock. If they expected a shot clock to be kept and followed it needed to be something the person running the board could easily do and all the players could see. This was not just for the benefit of the referees or the players or the keepers either. It was to keep the mothers and fathers in the stands from running onto the court and choking people to death because their snowflake dribbled out a shot clock they couldn't see and ended up losing the West Chickatassee Invitational Butter Tournament.

Of course, it didn't stop them from trying to get us to keep a non-visual shot clock for the first few games of a season, or keep other ultimately useless statistics. I literally had a coach ask me to keep track of his AAU Girls 11 and under team rebounds. Or a guy asked me how many assists his daughter had in a Junior High game. Hell if I know, man. Just keeping track of which 4'5" munchkin in identical uniforms are the ones who scored in the cluster of 4'5" munchkins was difficult enough.

Grr, just thinking about it gets me frustrated. Oh well, that time has passed.

Loomy: Treygreen13: I literally had a coach ask me to keep track of his AAU Girls 11 and under team rebounds. Or a guy asked me how many assists his daughter had in a Junior High game. Hell if I know, man. Just keeping track of which 4'5" munchkin in identical uniforms are the ones who scored in the cluster of 4'5" munchkins was difficult enough.


I'll never understand that. Dude, you're her father - you're the ultimate personal stat-keeper. You're not there to be entertained by the spectacle that is an AAU Girls U-11 basketball game, you're there to watch and cheer on your kid. How many assists? Easy, 2-part process:

Step 1: Has she just passed the ball to a teammate?
Step 2: Did said teammate immediately score without much effort?

Then chalk up an assist for you 4'5" munchkin.


/Unrelated: is there a stepped scale for how high the nets are for different age groups in organized ball?

I never saw it any lower than 8 feet. Then again I didn't ever do any *little* kids stuff. There might be a 6-foot goal step for 1st and 2nd graders, but I'm not sure.

I do recall that when I played, I think it was 4th grade where we had one side of the court at 8 feet (for us) and 10 feet for the 5th graders. Don't know about any standardized rule for that, though.

Treygreen13: dletter: And, "not having a working shot clock" in the gym seems like a weak excuse.... one of the ref's could easily be in charge of the shot clock with a timed watch and could yell out when it got down to 10 or 5 seconds left.

I've never seen a referee keeping a shot clock. Any system that depends on a girls basketball referee warning the players verbally about a shot clock is doomed to failure. Even when you have a working shot clock in a high school or lower girls basketball game, it's generally a clusterfark.

When I was keeping, if there wasn't a shot clock device of some kind, we never used a shot clock. If they expected a shot clock to be kept and followed it needed to be something the person running the board could easily do and all the players could see. This was not just for the benefit of the referees or the players or the keepers either. It was to keep the mothers and fathers in the stands from running onto the court and choking people to death because their snowflake dribbled out a shot clock they couldn't see and ended up losing the West Chickatassee Invitational Butter Tournament.

Of course, it didn't stop them from trying to get us to keep a non-visual shot clock for the first few games of a season, or keep other ultimately useless statistics. I literally had a coach ask me to keep track of his AAU Girls 11 and under team rebounds. Or a guy asked me how many assists his daughter had in a Junior High game. Hell if I know, man. Just keeping track of which 4'5" munchkin in identical uniforms are the ones who scored in the cluster of 4'5" munchkins was difficult enough.

Grr, just thinking about it gets me frustrated. Oh well, that time has passed.

Well, I was talking more about just the shot clock to keep the game flow going. I can agree on trying to keep good stats at the sub-HS level (heck, there are some psudo-pro leagues that can't even get a grip on good stats collection).

Either that, or, as was also said.. I think if you don't have a shot clock, generally there is a silent 5 or 10 count where the player has to pass or shoot or else you can get called for holding the ball and the ball turns over. At least in that then, there is a chance of a turnover.

But, without some way of "forcing" action, one team with a lead can just sit on the ball and dribble around.

in this scenario, the other team needs to pressure the ball constantly. They need to go to a full court press. You'll get so many turnovers. the score will be 20-0 in no time.

dletter: Either that, or, as was also said.. I think if you don't have a shot clock, generally there is a silent 5 or 10 count where the player has to pass or shoot or else you can get called for holding the ball and the ball turns over. At least in that then, there is a chance of a turnover.

The 5-second closely guarded rule covers that. Although I guess if a defender isn't within 6 feet, they can dribble as much as they want. 5 seconds back to the basket could also work, assuming that (at some point) the players don't turn towards the basket.

It's tough for a referee to encourage play to move along if both teams are actively trying to delay. There's not even a Technical foul you can call for that type of delay, if memory serves.

Now what he could do is start T-ing up coaches for little things, like stepping on the court. Or start getting really ticky-tacky with traveling, carrying, double dribbles, pay attention to time in the lane. Really rack up the fouls, get a team in the bonus, and get one team ahead on free throws so the other team has to start scoring to keep up.

ArkAngel: "I didn't want to pick up the pace because I didn't see the need for the girls to run around," Notre Dame coach Nicole Levandusky said of the Bluebirds stalling strategy. "I thought we might as well stay back and wait on them to play."

And this is why women shouldn't coach

this person has no business being anywhere near a basketball coaching position.

Still more exciting than soccer

srhp29: If anyone ever suggests Girls High School basketball is not boring...punch them in the face.

The college game is all right if you have a rooting interest (attend or used to attend the school).

The WNBA? I don't know. I really don't think I have ever watched.

Some of them can be exciting. Not many, though.

You can usually count on the games being close since neither team scores a ton.

Super Chronic: srhp29: If anyone ever suggests Girls High School basketball is not boring...punch them in the face.

The college game is all right if you have a rooting interest (attend or used to attend the school).

The WNBA? I don't know. I really don't think I have ever watched.

The college game can be excruciating because all of the talent is concentrated in a small handful of teams, and you routinely see scores like 96-31.

A buddy of mine does women's basketball producing/graphics. He had some hilarious Brittany Griner graphics, like how at one point she was #1 in rebounds in all of college basketball, and immediately behind her was a list of teams she had out-rebounded. Teams, not individuals.

Here is my thing about Womens Basketball.... everyone says that although it is not about being "above the rim" like men's BB... it has more "fundamentals".

I've checked out a handful of WNBA games and Women's CBK games, and every time it seems like there is just extremely sloppy play... a lot of turnovers, steals, etc. Which is why I guess teams like Connecticut and a few others are considered so much better than the rest.... they actually play with some control vs. 95% of the other teams.

dragonchild: Treygreen13: I don't know why teams don't bring the full court press more. An NBA point guard can deal with a one-man press and still set up an offense but at the lower levels putting a capable defender on a point guard and playing him aggressively all the way down the court can really screw up an offensive gameplan.

The downside is that the stretched-out defense means no help D inside, so if it doesn't work -- especially if you double-team the PG -- you basically give the other team a free fast break. It's a high-stakes gamble. My old HS team was the 16th seed in the state tourney (out of. . . 16 teams) and one reason we upset the first-seeded defending state champs is that they tried to break up a halftime stalemate running a full-court press on us. When they pressed our PG he picked apart the spread-out defense and started making alley-oops to our center for dunks. Yeah, they blew the game open. . . just not quite how they wanted. We barely qualified for the tourney but we ended up crushing those guys.

In high school girls basketball? I've seen less penetration in a Disney movie than in a high school girls basketball game.

I watched a College Men's game last night, actually. The winning team had a man on the PG all the way down the court, and ran a tight zone. Made the PG come down under duress and try to kick it to a perimeter shooter since there was no way he was getting into the paint. Of course they were much bigger underneath than their opponents so that probably played into their strategy. Anyway it came down to the opponents taking contested jumpers and threes against a shot clock because the PG took time to get down and then set up the offense before they could even start swinging the ball around.

dragonchild: Treygreen13: In high school girls basketball? I've seen less penetration in a Disney movie than in a high school girls basketball game.

That CSB was about the boys' team. But as far as the girls' team went, I got to see a treat there too. The rest of the team was meh but they basically got to the state tourney carried by their PG. . . the younger sister of the boys' team PG. The guy who picked apart the #1 press D in the state. Guess who she practiced against. She had the best ball control of any player on that court, by far. Granted as a high school girl she had her physical limitations but within that context she was very, very good. I don't think anyone managed a steal off her, ever.

But really, you don't go to girls' games to see amazing basketball (or amazing girls, really, though I was friends with the PG and she was hot). This is gonna get laughs out of anyone who thinks the ONLY reason to enjoy a sporting event is watching high-level play, but the main difference was the atmosphere. The team, band, cheerleaders and crowd all got along and actually meshed, which is something I haven't experienced at any other team sporting event since.

There are definitely aspects of the women's game that I find appealing, as a fan of sport. Exciting doesn't exactly mean a better example of the sport, as I do think women's basketball represents the spirit of the rules better.

Treygreen13: When I was keeping, if there wasn't a shot clock device of some kind, we never used a shot clock.

How expensive is a shot clock? I gotta believe that's one of the least expensive parts of building a HS gym.

downstairs: Treygreen13: When I was keeping, if there wasn't a shot clock device of some kind, we never used a shot clock.

How expensive is a shot clock? I gotta believe that's one of the least expensive parts of building a HS gym.

Well, I'd guess the actual timekeeping device would be pretty reasonable (but even back then some of the equipment seemed pretty ancient), the problem is putting the shot clock somewhere the players and referees can see it.