I wouldn't say that religion causes homophobia so much as homophobia caused anti-gay sentiments to be added to the moral codes of the Abrahamic religions way back when. Just because something is in the Bible/Koran/Torah doesn't mean adherents of the religion believe in it; there are plenty of practices and beliefs held by adherents of the same religion in ancient times that would be ridiculed today.

The average person's tolerance for homosexuality won't change. The homophobic older generations will die off and be replaced by generations that have grown up with homosexuality being an open part of culture that is not something to be ashamed of. This isn't some random prediction of the far future; it's already happening now. I'm in the religious US south and i can guarantee nobody under 25 would be caught dead calling homosexuality amoral in public.

Arturo: I wouldn't say that religion causes homophobia so much as homophobia caused anti-gay sentiments to be added to the moral codes of the Abrahamic religions way back when. Just because something is in the Bible/Koran/Torah doesn't mean adherents of the religion believe in it; there are plenty of practices and beliefs held by adherents of the same religion in ancient times that would be ridiculed today.

The average person's tolerance for homosexuality won't change. The homophobic older generations will die off and be replaced by generations that have grown up with homosexuality being an open part of culture that is not something to be ashamed of. This isn't some random prediction of the far future; it's already happening now. I'm in the religious US south and i can guarantee nobody under 25 would be caught dead calling homosexuality amoral in public.

Dude, I live in Alabama, and you are 100 percent, totally, unequivocally wrong on that one. Hell, my brother is a pastor, he is 24 years old, and is 100 percent against homosexuality. I was also forced (due to bad marriage) to attend a non-denominational church for close to 7 years in TN - the pastor there was young, the congregation was almost totally under 30, and they all pretty much held that homosexuality is immoral and against "god's will".

frepnog: my point is this - and has been this since my Boobies in this thread - that religion has been going for thousands of years, and the main 2 - Christianity and islam - don't like gheys.


The main 2? lol
You have a really Eurocentric view of the world.

Yeah, I'm definitely going with trolling. The "Tosh" thing was kind of the tip off. I mean, maybe you're just some idiotic frat boy with delusions of philosophical sophistication, but this is the internet so troll is at least as likely, if not more. Either way, what you're saying is dumb enough that it doesn't merit getting worked up at all over.

frepnog: stop trying to side-step the issue.

It looks like most other people here misunderstood your original statement. Next time be more clear as to what you're arguing. It sounded like you were making a blanket statement about all religions through history. If you're not, then fine. I have no problem with what you're trying to say.

mongbiohazard: frepnog: my point is this - and has been this since my Boobies in this thread - that religion has been going for thousands of years, and the main 2 - Christianity and islam - don't like gheys.


The main 2? lol
You have a really Eurocentric view of the world.

Yeah, I'm definitely going with trolling. The "Tosh" thing was kind of the tip off. I mean, maybe you're just some idiotic frat boy with delusions of philosophical sophistication, but this is the internet so troll is at least as likely, if not more. Either way, what you're saying is dumb enough that it doesn't merit getting worked up at all over.

well, I am sorry that the reality of the world is that no matter what the gheys want to say or how many ghey-centric tv shows are on tv, the greater majority of the population thinks homosexuality is wrong. tons of people base that on religion. tons simply think it is wrong. a very small (SMALL) minority of people say it is ok enough to be tolerated and an even smaller number say it is perfectly fine and natural.

what ever guys.

I like that this is OBVIOUS and not HERO. His view is the only view a decent human being would have. This doesn't make him admirable, this makes him a decent human. I don't think it's really all that rare.

theorellior: frepnog: stop trying to side-step the issue.

It looks like most other people here misunderstood your original statement. Next time be more clear as to what you're arguing. It sounded like you were making a blanket statement about all religions through history. If you're not, then fine. I have no problem with what you're trying to say.

i never said "all religions thru history". i said "people have believed in god for thousands of years". not unclear in anyway.

sometimes i wonder about the average IQ of the people on fark.

frepnog: i never said "all religions thru history". i said "people have believed in god for thousands of years". not unclear in anyway.

If this thread is any indication, that's just not the case.

sometimes i wonder about the average IQ of the people on fark.

Well, you keep on wondering. Look up Dunning-Kruger while you're wondering.

theorellior: Dunning-Kruger

heh.

/not applicable here. everything i have said in this thread is true. debatable, but still true.

Subby this is for you

Did anybody else know this was about Clooney without even looking?

Cythraul: How can you guys let frepnog derail and ruin a perfectly good George Clooney worship thread?

Shame on y'all.

clooney is awesome. Hollywood royalty and bangs women most of us only dream of. we don't need a thread sucking his dick.

frepnog: fact is that most older people simply think homosexuality is wrong. most people also tend to either believe in a god of some type or be religious in general, and there is a constant in some sects of modern religions thatn homosexuality is wrong.

Your little anecdotes about your brother and other backwater churches with some younger populations not withstanding, the majority of people under 30 in North America have no problem with homosexuals:



And religion is not static. It changes with the times as much as it influences them. Otherwise shrimp, mixed fiber, and divorce would still be outlawed, and slavery would still be all the rage.

frepnog: well, I am sorry that the reality of the world is that no matter what the gheys want to say or how many ghey-centric tv shows are on tv, the greater majority of the population thinks homosexuality is wrong. tons of people base that on religion. tons simply think it is wrong. a very small (SMALL) minority of people say it is ok enough to be tolerated and an even smaller number say it is perfectly fine and natural.

what ever guys.


If you're talking about the American population (a safe assumption given your furious backpedaling when confronted regarding your original ignorant blanket statements) then what you just said is demonstrably, markedly, false. It's the majority of people who are tolerant of gay relationships and not - as you asserted - "a very small (SMALL) minority of people".

This is a poll from two years ago when the acceptance of gay relationships crossed the 50% threshold. That's following a decade or longer trend, so it's very likely that those statistics are even more in favor of gays today. So either you were lying in order to troll more or were giving your honest assessment which is deeply ignorant and pulled out of your ass.

So what Clooney's trying to say is "I hope every one else is gay, because that leaves more chicks for me. Not that I need any help, because I could get your mom and sister lined up for a tag team on your living room sofa before you had time to finish hanging up my coat"

mongbiohazard: frepnog: well, I am sorry that the reality of the world is that no matter what the gheys want to say or how many ghey-centric tv shows are on tv, the greater majority of the population thinks homosexuality is wrong. tons of people base that on religion. tons simply think it is wrong. a very small (SMALL) minority of people say it is ok enough to be tolerated and an even smaller number say it is perfectly fine and natural.

what ever guys.


If you're talking about the American population (a safe assumption given your furious backpedaling when confronted regarding your original ignorant blanket statements) then what you just said is demonstrably, markedly, false. It's the majority of people who are tolerant of gay relationships and not - as you asserted - "a very small (SMALL) minority of people".

This is a poll from two years ago when the acceptance of gay relationships crossed the 50% threshold. That's following a decade or longer trend, so it's very likely that those statistics are even more in favor of gays today. So either you were lying in order to troll more or were giving your honest assessment which is deeply ignorant and pulled out of your ass.

the population of the US alone is somewhere around 311,591,917 people.

do you REALLY think that poll has any bearing whatever on reality?

somewhere between 1.5 and 5 percent of Americans (depending on who you ask) identify as gay. You think that poll has any bearing on their reality at all?

Arkanaut: I'm sure Derek Jeter feels the same way.

I had to call the tax abatement office yesterday and the guy helping me went on for ten minutes about how Derek Jeter is the only person in the world he's jealous of - then told me how Jeter gets laid. I admit it sounded good.

George Clooney is awesome. I thought that before, but he just keeps getting better.

Many people seem to mistake being traumatized by divorce with being gay.

On a fresh air interview (new window) he talked about his divorce which happened 12 years earlier before he became a star with ER. While he was nothing but pure class discussing it, you can hear in his voice that he still found it painful. Even when you an ease with the ladies like the Cloonster, divorce still stings.

frepnog: the population of the US alone is somewhere around 311,591,917 people.

do you REALLY think that poll has any bearing whatever on reality?

somewhere between 1.5 and 5 percent of Americans (depending on who you ask) identify as gay. You think that poll has any bearing on their reality at all?


Of course I do. It's from Gallup, a reputable polling organization who uses widely accepted scientific methods to gather their data. If you believe otherwise then show some citations of your own or STFU, cupcake. Thus far you've whined like an idiot and dismissed credible data with little more than a hand wave, but offered none of your own - the hallmark of a true moron.

Here's some more data, just to drive the stake into the heart of your dumb argument even further:
A poll from last year, which shows Americans have hit a new high of tolerance of gay relationships... we're now over 64%. A good solid majority.

And here is a posting from Christianity Today (not exactly a member of the vast fuchsia conspiracy) detailing federally funded polling data from the GSS which also verifies that Americans are far, far more tolerant of gay relationships than you're suggesting.

So again, if you don't believe the data then you need to start showing some data which supports your dumb comments or STFU.

beta_plus: Many people seem to mistake being traumatized by divorce with being gay.

On a fresh air interview (new window) he talked about his divorce which happened 12 years earlier before he became a star with ER. While he was nothing but pure class discussing it, you can hear in his voice that he still found it painful. Even when you an ease with the ladies like the Cloonster, divorce still stings.

it is also probably why he is in no hurry to get married again - especially now that he is rich and super famous.

mongbiohazard: frepnog: the population of the US alone is somewhere around 311,591,917 people.

do you REALLY think that poll has any bearing whatever on reality?

somewhere between 1.5 and 5 percent of Americans (depending on who you ask) identify as gay. You think that poll has any bearing on their reality at all?


Of course I do. It's from Gallup, a reputable polling organization who uses widely accepted scientific methods to gather their data. If you believe otherwise then show some citations of your own or STFU, cupcake. Thus far you've whined like an idiot and dismissed credible data with little more than a hand wave, but offered none of your own - the hallmark of a true moron.

Here's some more data, just to drive the stake into the heart of your dumb argument even further:
A poll from last year, which shows Americans have hit a new high of tolerance of gay relationships... we're now over 64%. A good solid majority.

And here is a posting from Christianity Today (not exactly a member of the vast fuchsia conspiracy) detailing federally funded polling data from the GSS which also verifies that Americans are far, far more tolerant of gay relationships than you're suggesting.

So again, if you don't believe the data then you need to start showing some data which supports your dumb comments or STFU.

As of February 2012, voters in 31 of 31 states that have put same-sex marriage up to a voter referendum have rejected it.

Doesn't sound like a farking majority support it to me. Dude, fark some polls. 31 states. 31 states put it up for vote.

31 farking states rejected it.

where is your support now? if a majority of people supposedly support it, why can't they get it passed?

Because polls a farking meaningless. the cold hard reality is that most people DO NOT support it, no matter what the polls are skewed to favor.

frepnog: mongbiohazard: frepnog: the population of the US alone is somewhere around 311,591,917 people.

do you REALLY think that poll has any bearing whatever on reality?

somewhere between 1.5 and 5 percent of Americans (depending on who you ask) identify as gay. You think that poll has any bearing on their reality at all?


Of course I do. It's from Gallup, a reputable polling organization who uses widely accepted scientific methods to gather their data. If you believe otherwise then show some citations of your own or STFU, cupcake. Thus far you've whined like an idiot and dismissed credible data with little more than a hand wave, but offered none of your own - the hallmark of a true moron.

Here's some more data, just to drive the stake into the heart of your dumb argument even further:
A poll from last year, which shows Americans have hit a new high of tolerance of gay relationships... we're now over 64%. A good solid majority.

And here is a posting from Christianity Today (not exactly a member of the vast fuchsia conspiracy) detailing federally funded polling data from the GSS which also verifies that Americans are far, far more tolerant of gay relationships than you're suggesting.

So again, if you don't believe the data then you need to start showing some data which supports your dumb comments or STFU.

As of February 2012, voters in 31 of 31 states that have put same-sex marriage up to a voter referendum have rejected it.

Doesn't sound like a farking majority support it to me. Dude, fark some polls. 31 states. 31 states put it up for vote.

31 farking states rejected it.

where is your support now? if a majority of people supposedly support it, why can't they get it passed?

Because polls a farking meaningless. the cold hard reality is that most people DO NOT support it, no matter what the polls are skewed to favor.


Yeah, fark what facts say! Who needs science, right?

It's amazing how much back-pedaling you've had to do in this thread. You must have learned how to ride a bike with a rear-view mirror..

You did not say "of likely voters" you said "the population". Here's another tip: likely voters != the general population. Also, the legalization of gay marriage is usually handled legislatively and not by popular referendum.

Also, your logic is flawed two other ways... Gay marriage != acceptance of gay relationships. There are many people who still consider the two things separate issues, and hold the position of supporting gays being gay but do not support gay marriage. Our president is one of those people. It seems a hypocritical position to me, but the trend is clearly in the favor of my gay friends.

The other flaw is that those 31 states used to be 50 states. The trend for gay marriage legalization is in FAVOR of gay marriage, not the other way around. In fact, my own state just legalized gay marriage as well.

frepnog: As of February 2012, voters in 31 of 31 states that have put same-sex marriage up to a voter referendum have rejected it.

Doesn't sound like a farking majority support it to me. Dude, fark some polls. 31 states. 31 states put it up for vote.

31 farking states rejected it.

where is your support now? if a majority of people supposedly support it, why can't they get it passed?

Because polls a farking meaningless. the cold hard reality is that most people DO NOT support it, no matter what the polls are skewed to favor.

Because for people who accept it, but are not themselves gay, going to the polls to vote on the issue isn't high on their priority list. Whereas for the bigots who reject it, it is high on their priority list.

Also because older people are MUCH more likely to vote than younger ones, so it skews towards the older more bigoted demographic.

Whereas the Gallup polls sample a random selection of the population, the ballot measures are a self selected group of people for who the issue matters enough to go to the voting booth for. And to a large extent, even putting the question onto a ballot is a strategy to bring out the bigoted vote, because they're much more likely to vote for a particular party.

fatalvenom: I've never even heard anyone suggest Clooney is gay.

Where did this come from?

I vaguely remember some tabloid quizzing Brad and Angelina about making their relationship legal, and their response was something along the lines of," when our good friend, George, can marry the person of his dreams, then we will too." The reporter was too clueless to recognize the inside joke.

I may try to dig up the source later; blocked at work right now.

came here for sea of fine ass, left with cockboat argument about proper statistical analysis.

miscreant: frepnog: As of February 2012, voters in 31 of 31 states that have put same-sex marriage up to a voter referendum have rejected it.

Doesn't sound like a farking majority support it to me. Dude, fark some polls. 31 states. 31 states put it up for vote.

31 farking states rejected it.

where is your support now? if a majority of people supposedly support it, why can't they get it passed?

Because polls a farking meaningless. the cold hard reality is that most people DO NOT support it, no matter what the polls are skewed to favor.

Because for people who accept it, but are not themselves gay, going to the polls to vote on the issue isn't high on their priority list. Whereas for the bigots who reject it, it is high on their priority list.

Also because older people are MUCH more likely to vote than younger ones, so it skews towards the older more bigoted demographic.

Whereas the Gallup polls sample a random selection of the population, the ballot measures are a self selected group of people for who the issue matters enough to go to the voting booth for. And to a large extent, even putting the question onto a ballot is a strategy to bring out the bigoted vote, because they're much more likely to vote for a particular party.

sounds like bullshiat to me.

"we want equality! we want to get married! we just want the same rights as everyone else! the majority of people have no problem with gays and gay marriage! the polls say so!"

and then 31 states reject gay marriage.

ok so either the majority support it and simply don't care enough to vote, or the majority doesn't support it and keep slapping it down.

for the love of god, california, the most progressive state there is, voted in prop. 8. yes, it is being contested as unconstitutional, but there it is. Califarkingfornia. the state with all the med MJ clinics that can't even get MJ legalized.

polls are great. reality is not.

I personally am not against gay people in any way. i vote, put that shiat on the ballot and i will gladly vote for gay marriage.

the simple truth is that while tv portrays gays in more and more favorable situations and the media acts like gays are the best thing since movable type, average real people simply don't like them. the REAL support simply isn't there.

it is getting better, I suppose, to a degree. But when the question is put to the test it seems over and over the answer is NO, NOT IN MY TOWN. GO BE GHEY SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I wish it wasn't true. discrimination sucks. but there it is. sex scares people, and dudes buttfarking other dudes scares them even more.

i personally am not a bigot. i simply shine a light on the issue and say WHERE IS THE REAL SUPPORT? because if it is really there, that shiat needs to show up.

Rwa2play: Tom_Slick: Rwa2play: Arkanaut: I'm sure Derek Jeter feels the same way.

Him, Clooney and Leonardo DiCaprio. Justin Timberlake was in the club until he popped the question to Jessica Biel.


Jeter, Clooney, Dicaprio are the smart ones, they know they will be looking for a new relationship at some point so they don't get married, Timberlake is about to embark down the same road as Tiger Woods.

Hey now; for all we know Jessica could be a princess in the street but a pornstar between the sheets.

So Justin might not have made the wrong choice there.

He'll get sick of her shiat at some point. It's the law.

frepnog:

Dude, I live in Alabama New York, and you are 100 percent, totally, unequivocally wrong right on that one. Hell, my brother sister is a pastor, he she is 24 years old, and is 100 percent against for homosexuality. I was also forced chose (due to bad marriage personal choices) to attend a non-denominational church for close to 7 years in TN - the pastor there was young, the congregation was almost totally under 30, and they all pretty much held that homosexuality is not immoral nor against "god's will".

Occam's Disposable Razor: Arturo: I'm in the religious US south and i can guarantee nobody under 25 would be caught dead calling homosexuality amoral in public.

Yeah, sadly I heartily disagree. Louisiana had a vote on gay marriage within the last 6-7 years, and it failed miserably. As in, close to 90% against.
Sure most of those voters were old assholes, but the attitude is very, very pervasive. I'm educated and think of myself as fairly liberal, and try to surround myself with similar people, and I still don't experience what you're describing. Hell, we're just starting to get past racism here. I promise you, homosexuals have a much longer way to go in the south than this statement indicates.

this. reality simply doesn't support the polls that claim that a majority support gay marriage.

Theaetetus: frepnog: Because polls a farking meaningless. the cold hard reality is that most people DO NOT support it, no matter what the polls are skewed to favor.

True enough, but it should be noted that, 30 states had anti-miscegenation laws, there were several proposed Constitutional amendments preventing interracial marriage, and Loving v. Virginia was a widely unpopular decision.

Just as those polls are meaningless, the cold hard reality is that popular opinion is also meaningless, where civil rights are concerned.

yeah, you have me there. hell, in Alabama if they put black slavery on the ballot you could get serious support, I'd wager.

Boeheimian Rhapsody: frepnog:

Dude, I live in Alabama New York, and you are 100 percent, totally, unequivocally wrong right on that one. Hell, my brother sister is a pastor, he she is 24 years old, and is 100 percent against for homosexuality. I was also forced chose (due to bad marriage personal choices) to attend a non-denominational church for close to 7 years in TN - the pastor there was young, the congregation was almost totally under 30, and they all pretty much held that homosexuality is not immoral nor against "god's will".

nice, but doubtful. I'd bet even money that even in New York the average church pastor says being gay is wrong.

miss diminutive: He tells The Advocate magazine, "I think it's funny, but the last thing you'll ever see me do is jump up and down, saying, 'These are lies!' That would be unfair and unkind to my good friends in the gay community. I'm not going to let anyone make it seem like being gay is a bad thing. My private life is private, and I'm very happy in it.

He adds, "One day the marriage equality fight will look as archaic as George Wallace standing on the University of Alabama steps keeping James Hood from attending college because he was black. People will be embarrassed to have been on the wrong side. So it's encouraging to know that this too will seem like such a silly argument to our next generation."

Great, as if I needed another reason to want to fark his brains out.

Seriously...

I couldn't get past the headline. "People thinks"? Really?

frepnog: Boeheimian Rhapsody: frepnog:

Dude, I live in Alabama New York, and you are 100 percent, totally, unequivocally wrong right on that one. Hell, my brother sister is a pastor, he she is 24 years old, and is 100 percent against for homosexuality. I was also forced chose (due to bad marriage personal choices) to attend a non-denominational church for close to 7 years in TN - the pastor there was young, the congregation was almost totally under 30, and they all pretty much held that homosexuality is not immoral nor against "god's will".

nice, but doubtful. I'd bet even money that even in New York Alabama the average church pastor says being gay is wrong fine.

Anecdotal evidence does not make for a strong argument. Please try again.

frepnog: sounds like bullshiat to me.

That's because your grasp of statistics and likely voters as compared to the overall population seems decidedly lacking.

frepnog: "we want equality! we want to get married! we just want the same rights as everyone else! the majority of people have no problem with gays and gay marriage! the polls say so!"

and then 31 states reject gay marriage.

Which I pointed out the reasons for above. Older demographics are definitely on the homophobic side of the coin, and older people are more likely to vote. Neither of those facts are in dispute. However, even in those states where it gets voted down, it's getting generally voted down by much slimmer margins than we would have seen even 10 years ago, nevermind 20.

frepnog: ok so either the majority support it and simply don't care enough to vote, or the majority doesn't support it and keep slapping it down.

The majority across all states and demographics support it. That is hardly the same as saying the majority of likely voters in every state supports it. And as the older generation dies off, the support will continue to grow. That's part of the reason they try and get these bans on the ballot now, because in 10 years, they probably wouldn't be able to pass it.

frepnog: I wish it wasn't true. discrimination sucks. but there it is. sex scares people, and dudes buttfarking other dudes scares them even more.

So did free negros and interracial marriage at one time. Attitudes change. Something like acceptance of homosexuals are not attitudes that change overnight, but considering that it's something that was listed as a mental illness less than 40 years ago, acceptance of homosexuals has come a long was in a single generation.

frepnog: i personally am not a bigot. i simply shine a light on the issue and say WHERE IS THE REAL SUPPORT? because if it is really there, that shiat needs to show up.

And it will when the under 30 crowd becomes the responsible adult crowd and the old bigots start dying out. The bigots are fighting a losing battle. And what's more, most of them know it... and THAT scares them, which is why they want to codify their bigotry while they still have the political power to do so.

Boeheimian Rhapsody: frepnog: Boeheimian Rhapsody: frepnog:

Dude, I live in Alabama New York, and you are 100 percent, totally, unequivocally wrong right on that one. Hell, my brother sister is a pastor, he she is 24 years old, and is 100 percent against for homosexuality. I was also forced chose (due to bad marriage personal choices) to attend a non-denominational church for close to 7 years in TN - the pastor there was young, the congregation was almost totally under 30, and they all pretty much held that homosexuality is not immoral nor against "god's will".

nice, but doubtful. I'd bet even money that even in New York Alabama the average church pastor says being gay is wrong fine.

Anecdotal evidence does not make for a strong argument. Please try again.

who is arguing? find me a majority of New York people of religion, christian or otherwise that support gay marriage. or gay anything for that matter and show it.

/come on, let's see.

miscreant: frepnog: sounds like bullshiat to me.

That's because your grasp of statistics and likely voters as compared to the overall population seems decidedly lacking.

frepnog: "we want equality! we want to get married! we just want the same rights as everyone else! the majority of people have no problem with gays and gay marriage! the polls say so!"

and then 31 states reject gay marriage.

Which I pointed out the reasons for above. Older demographics are definitely on the homophobic side of the coin, and older people are more likely to vote. Neither of those facts are in dispute. However, even in those states where it gets voted down, it's getting generally voted down by much slimmer margins than we would have seen even 10 years ago, nevermind 20.

frepnog: ok so either the majority support it and simply don't care enough to vote, or the majority doesn't support it and keep slapping it down.

The majority across all states and demographics support it. That is hardly the same as saying the majority of likely voters in every state supports it. And as the older generation dies off, the support will continue to grow. That's part of the reason they try and get these bans on the ballot now, because in 10 years, they probably wouldn't be able to pass it.

frepnog: I wish it wasn't true. discrimination sucks. but there it is. sex scares people, and dudes buttfarking other dudes scares them even more.

So did free negros and interracial marriage at one time. Attitudes change. Something like acceptance of homosexuals are not attitudes that change overnight, but considering that it's something that was listed as a mental illness less than 40 years ago, acceptance of homosexuals has come a long was in a single generation.

frepnog: i personally am not a bigot. i simply shine a light on the issue and say WHERE IS THE REAL SUPPORT? because if it is really there, that shiat needs to show up.

And it will when the under 30 crowd becomes the responsible adult crowd and the old bigots start dying out. The bigots are fighting a losing battle. And what's more, most of them know it... and THAT scares them, which is why they want to codify their bigotry while they still have the political power to do so.

i could believe this if religion was also dying out. except that it isn't, and the amount of young people that hold these views are substantial.

frepnog: Boeheimian Rhapsody: frepnog: Boeheimian Rhapsody: frepnog:

Dude, I live in Alabama New York, and you are 100 percent, totally, unequivocally wrong right on that one. Hell, my brother sister is a pastor, he she is 24 years old, and is 100 percent against for homosexuality. I was also forced chose (due to bad marriage personal choices) to attend a non-denominational church for close to 7 years in TN - the pastor there was young, the congregation was almost totally under 30, and they all pretty much held that homosexuality is not immoral nor against "god's will".

nice, but doubtful. I'd bet even money that even in New York Alabama the average church pastor says being gay is wrong fine.

Anecdotal evidence does not make for a strong argument. Please try again.

who is arguing? find me a majority of New York people of religion, christian or otherwise that support gay marriage. or gay anything for that matter and show it.

/come on, let's see.

You do know that it's now legal in new york to have same sex marriages, right?

frepnog, are you equivocating? are you just spending many posts begging to differ with mongbiohazard's assertion that young people are already much more open to accepting homosexuality than older generations, as he used a hyperbolic example?

or are you masking your own feelings on the subject by expressing some kind of concensus view via world religions?

by the way, a quick googling indicates that you are right that the two largest-membered religions are christianity and islam. i also think mongbiohazard's assertion that nobody under 25 cares by citing what happens at a particular college party isn't very statistically conclusive.

Magorn: mongbiohazard: He adds, "One day the marriage equality fight will look as archaic as George Wallace standing on the University of Alabama steps keeping James Hood from attending college because he was black. People will be embarrassed to have been on the wrong side. So it's encouraging to know that this too will seem like such a silly argument to our next generation."


Goddamn right. Though I'd add that this already seems silly to the next generation. Young people don't give a fark about homosexuality/heterosexuality OR race.

My little sister is in college, and her and her friends invite me to a lot of parties (her friends like my sense of humor apparently). Let me tell you, it's really really heartening to hear how utterly, casually oblivious they are to race and sexuality when they don't think a responsible adult is around. Casually mocking old stereotypes, an utter lack of cowed reverence for the old racial slurs and epithets... They truly do NOT care at all about race, gender and sexuality. It's pretty awesome to witness, actually.

We're winning. Day by day, inch by inch, but we are winning. "Progressives" always will because the single constant in the universe is change. Even the most "conservative" mainstream politcian today would recoil in horror at the suggestion that Schools be segregated or blacks not be allowed to marry whites.

Less than 50 years ago a major presidential candidate ran on precisely that platfom.

now this is something i can get behind. however, I wager we are still 30-50 years from gay marriage being legal everywhere and accepted by the true majority.

/"any reason" abortion will get banned first, mark my words