9beers: Read the article, by voting no, they opened themselves up to a lawsuit that could cost them a lot more.

Re-hiring him means they are guaranteed to pay every penny he's asking for, along with putting a convicted drunk driver back on the police force. Allowing it to go to court means they only have to pay $15k, with a tiny chance of paying $4 mill.

As for the court case itself, he's trying to have alcoholism recognized under the ADA. If he's successful, if a judge officially recognizes alcoholism as a disability, that ruling would effectively pave the way toward nullifying the DUI laws, and result in far more lenient punishments for those who do get into accidents while drunk.

Regardless of whether or not this guy has a legitimate case, the precedent alone means he doesn't stand a chance in front of any sane judge.

9beers,Read the article, by voting no, they opened themselves up to a lawsuit that could cost them a lot more.

Sometimes standing on principle is the right thing to do. Let the douchebag sue.

Shame they didn't just prosecute him for the FELONY he committed in the first place. Now he's suing the city for his back pay because they cut him a break thanks to the think blue line.

If he was a convicted felon, like he should be, then he wouldn't have a leg to stand on, not that a drunk like him could stand.

Alcoholism may be a disability but it is definitely something that would disbar serving in a public trust capacity.

You don't hire a profoundly deaf man to be an air traffic controller or a 911 dispatcher.
You don't hire a completely blind man to an electrician or a fighter pilot.
You don't hire an idiot to be an mathematician or a NASA mission coordinator.

Besides, the excuse of alcoholism doesn't make sense - why are criminals in jail that committed crimes while under the influence of alcohol?

By that logic, they couldn't help themselves cause they have a disease.

Enemabag Jones: 9beers,Read the article, by voting no, they opened themselves up to a lawsuit that could cost them a lot more.

Sometimes standing on principle is the right thing to do. Let the douchebag sue.
He is for $4 million. New Link

Another comment from a City Council member (from the link):
Council-member Salvatori said Monday, "Some battles are fought for principle and some battles are fought for dollars. When you fight for principles you fight until hell freezes over and then you fight on the ice."

soundguy: they aren't going to put an interlock on a cruiser that is shared by 3 shifts)

No? Why not. Seems like a good idea to outfit the entire fleet.

metametameta: CrispFlows: Alcoholism may be a disability but it is definitely something that would disbar serving in a public trust capacity.

You don't hire a profoundly deaf man to be an air traffic controller or a 911 dispatcher.
You don't hire a completely blind man to an electrician or a fighter pilot.
You don't hire an idiot to be an mathematician or a NASA mission coordinator.

Besides, the excuse of alcoholism doesn't make sense - why are criminals in jail that committed crimes while under the influence of alcohol?

By that logic, they couldn't help themselves cause they have a disease.

It's also an insult to all the responsible alcoholics who treat their disease seriously and collect their sober tokens. Being an alcoholic doesn't automatically mean it's okay to be drunk or commit crimes. He wasn't fired for being an alcoholic, he was fired because he was a drunk. They aren't the same thing.

/Best friend is 15 years sober.

------

It's a shiatty article, but if you read it closely, you'll see that he received "deferred prosecution" for DUI and Hit & Run, which basically means "keep your nose clean and go to AA for one year, and we'll drop the charge". It's common in WA for first offense DUI. The problem was that a condition of DP was (at the time) that his car must be fitted with an ignition interlock and breathalyser. He was fired because that prevented him from performing the duties of the job he was hired to do. (they aren't going to put an interlock on a cruiser that is shared by 3 shifts) He was offered a desk job with no driving responsibilities but he wouldn't take it, so they fired his punk ass.

The wiggle room in this is that the law changed and people on DP now have their normal driving privileges, which means if the situation happened today, he would be able to drive the cruiser and would not be fired. What he's trying to do is ignore the fact that the law was different when he was sentenced.

Ex Post Facto, beyotch!

If this guy had gone to his CO and said he had a drinking problem, that it was related to his on the job stress... I could kind of see granting him some paid leave to deal with his issues... but that's not what happened, he committed a felony... he should not be permitted to own a weapon, let alone be a cop.

"Thoma's attorney, Bob Dunn, argues that job-related stress led Thoma to alcoholism and should be regarded as a disability."

You have to be farking joking. It's the police, not the army in Iraq. Not even a high-crime city like Detroit or else. And there's this thing called "getting help for your issues".

I think he's just worried that this could set a precedent where police may actually have to face the law and its consequences.

libranoelrose: This is a good example of a troll that is obvious.

I dunno, seems like a reasonable response to me.

Mutt Farkinov: On a more serious note...

I'm not going to play devil's advocate here. This guy in the article acted in a reprehensible manner in light of the responsibility and public trust he was SUPPOSED to carry.

I work in emergency services. More specifically, I'm a paramedic/firefighter and I work in a rough town. No, it's not as bad as Detroit, but we've ranked pretty high per capita in some areas of violent crime in recent years. I respect cops because they've carried the weight to settle threats to me and my guys, be it gained through crooked means or not. For example, imagine trying to work on someone in the back of an ambulance, in the middle of a night club parking lot, while an angry mob is rocking the vehicle side-to-side from the exterior. Then the "po-po" shows up and puts a stop to it. It doesn't matter where they derive their authority from, we're just damn glad to see them.

One of these police officers that could be considered an enforcer in such situations has recently been arraigned for sexual assault of a minor. I would have once white-knighted the guy, but of course that's been reevaluated. Still, it's hard to forget those times he intervened for me and my guys and kept us safe.

My point of this whole CSB is to say that cop haters or defenders want to see this shiat in black and white, but it rarely ever is.

In other words, you think cops should be able to do whatever they want. As long as it protects your ass.

DUI hit and ruins my life. I lose my job and my house. This asshole sees it as the farking lottery. How does a hit-and-run get him $275,000 in backpay, while not working, because he's a criminal. Had he been sober while endangering the public would he have no claim in court right now? School teachers unions are being professionally busted, yet these thugs go unabated. No education but plenty of police state.

CrispFlows: Alcoholism may be a disability but it is definitely something that would disbar serving in a public trust capacity.

You don't hire a profoundly deaf man to be an air traffic controller or a 911 dispatcher.
You don't hire a completely blind man to an electrician or a fighter pilot.
You don't hire an idiot to be an mathematician or a NASA mission coordinator.

Besides, the excuse of alcoholism doesn't make sense - why are criminals in jail that committed crimes while under the influence of alcohol?

By that logic, they couldn't help themselves cause they have a disease.

It's also an insult to all the responsible alcoholics who treat their disease seriously and collect their sober tokens. Being an alcoholic doesn't automatically mean it's okay to be drunk or commit crimes. He wasn't fired for being an alcoholic, he was fired because he was a drunk. They aren't the same thing.

/Best friend is 15 years sober.

metametameta: Who the hell thought hiring him and giving him back pay was a good idea?

His union when they got him that concession in collective bargaining; or is a bad idea to point out that cops have their own union?

A quarter-million dollars and his job back after committing a crime when his job was to prevent crime and bring criminals to justice? Hell no, indeed.

Who the hell thought hiring him and giving him back pay was a good idea? An officer breaking the law (and not even one of those debatably justifiable ones) should be an automatic boot to the door.

FTFA: Last week, Mayor David Condon had asked the Council to table the item, while the State Human Rights Commission proceeds with an additional review of the matter that includes a claim of disability discrimination.

Wait, being a complete waste of oxygen is considered to be a disability now?

I don't get it. Why would this even need to be discussed?

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Fluorescent Testicle: FTFA: Last week, Mayor David Condon had asked the Council to table the item, while the State Human Rights Commission proceeds with an additional review of the matter that includes a claim of disability discrimination.

Wait, being a complete waste of oxygen is considered to be a disability now?

They're claiming that non-induced stress led to.his."disability" of being an alcoholic.

To be fair, almost ant condition is a disability in liberal America. From their growing net of disability definitions, neat 5% of Americans are considered too disabled to work and receive checks. I have am uncle whose disability is that he liked heroin as a youth. He is 62 and never had a job after age 22.

Disability is the new backdoor welfare.

I lived in Madison, CT for a while during their police scandal (NYTimes (new window)). Basically this is a town of 18,000 with 24 cops. During the course of the investigation, 8 officers were found stealing from local businesses, hiring prostitutes while on duty etc. The chief was "suspended" and now 5 years later the town is still paying two police force salaries because they haven't been able to fire the corrupt cops but for obvious reasons can't have them doing police work.

It's farking unbelievable, as a cop you can walk into a restaurant's cold storage, steal a bag of lobsters, head to a vacant lot for some tail, get caught and retire with pay.

I've generally been pretty proud of the police services in the municipalities in which I've resided; Canada has some pretty professional cops.

However, there was a cop a few years ago who blew through a red and hit somebody. I can't remember if it was a fatal, but I was still offended that his punishment was a traffic ticket. He wasn't on duty, so although his employer was reported as part of the story, there was no job-related punishment.

How in the hell can someone be a cop when they obviously believe (and have shown through public action) that they believe the rules don't apply to them?

Bottom line: this filthy rat-bastard is guilty of a felony, cop or not. He doesn't deserve a job, nor an opportunity to sue anyone. He DOES deserve jail for life at hard labor.

Mutt Farkinov: On a more serious note...

I'm not going to play devil's advocate here. This guy in the article acted in a reprehensible manner in light of the responsibility and public trust he was SUPPOSED to carry.

I work in emergency services. More specifically, I'm a paramedic/firefighter and I work in a rough town. No, it's not as bad as Detroit, but we've ranked pretty high per capita in some areas of violent crime in recent years. I respect cops because they've carried the weight to settle threats to me and my guys, be it gained through crooked means or not. For example, imagine trying to work on someone in the back of an ambulance, in the middle of a night club parking lot, while an angry mob is rocking the vehicle side-to-side from the exterior. Then the "po-po" shows up and puts a stop to it. It doesn't matter where they derive their authority from, we're just damn glad to see them.

One of these police officers that could be considered an enforcer in such situations has recently been arraigned for sexual assault of a minor. I would have once white-knighted the guy, but of course that's been reevaluated. Still, it's hard to forget those times he intervened for me and my guys and kept us safe.

My point of this whole CSB is to say that cop haters or defenders want to see this shiat in black and white, but it rarely ever is.

Bingo! Here's the apologist.
It is certainly black and white when it comes to the fact that the idiot in question is a convicted criminal. His job is to catch criminals, not be one.

farkityfarker: Mutt Farkinov: On a more serious note...

In other words, you think cops should be able to do whatever they want. As long as it protects your ass.

I think that's a fairly big leap to conclusion. Either you missed my point or willfully ignored it so you could chime in with your hyperbole. When things are going south in the middle of a mob, it doesn't really matter if the mob sees the cop as a bad guy, or respects them. The priority is to defuse the situation. If I gave the impression that I think it's cool if 80's LA Rampart was wading in, clubbing little kids, that wasn't my intent. But, I'm forthright enough to admit I've had plenty of vodka so hell, maybe it's my fault for not being clear.

/at the house, though, so no driving
//cheers

farkityfarker: That's how it would be in a perfect world. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a corrupt world.

The depressing thing?

It used to be worse.

libranoelrose: WhyteRaven74: libranoelrose: What about jail time?

Well if state law calls for it, that too. But the larger point is, if you get convicted of a DUI hit and run, that's it. Really, any hit and run should be enough.

I guess I hold myself to a higher standard than most state legislatures.

Anyone that is supposed to uphold the law, and breaks it, should suffer the consequences of breaking that law than others.

That's how it would be in a perfect world. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a corrupt world.

libranoelrose: What about jail time?

Well if state law calls for it, that too. But the larger point is, if you get convicted of a DUI hit and run, that's it. Really, any hit and run should be enough.

Currently in Washington State, we have an example of how much cops are revered.

A state trooper was killed a few days ago. Yes, that's a sad tragedy.

The person who killed him then committed suicide.

But that's not enough for the cops. They're going on a witch hunt to find as many scapegoats as they can. So far, 4 people have been arrested. As far as I can tell, their only crime was knowing the murderer. The vengeance will continue.

There should be no discussion here, cop convicted of DUI hit and run is immediately off the force and forfeits any pension or benefits. No second chances, no discussion, game over.

And Karl the Klubber (Thompson) remains free after murdering Otto Zehm in cold blood.

On a more serious note...

I'm not going to play devil's advocate here. This guy in the article acted in a reprehensible manner in light of the responsibility and public trust he was SUPPOSED to carry.

I work in emergency services. More specifically, I'm a paramedic/firefighter and I work in a rough town. No, it's not as bad as Detroit, but we've ranked pretty high per capita in some areas of violent crime in recent years. I respect cops because they've carried the weight to settle threats to me and my guys, be it gained through crooked means or not. For example, imagine trying to work on someone in the back of an ambulance, in the middle of a night club parking lot, while an angry mob is rocking the vehicle side-to-side from the exterior. Then the "po-po" shows up and puts a stop to it. It doesn't matter where they derive their authority from, we're just damn glad to see them.

One of these police officers that could be considered an enforcer in such situations has recently been arraigned for sexual assault of a minor. I would have once white-knighted the guy, but of course that's been reevaluated. Still, it's hard to forget those times he intervened for me and my guys and kept us safe.

My point of this whole CSB is to say that cop haters or defenders want to see this shiat in black and white, but it rarely ever is.

I'd like to join the celebration, but somehow, not getting "back pay" for pulling a stunt that would land any workaday schmo in country for 3 months, take every dime he has and make him a pedestrian for 6 months doesn't strike me as "Release the doves! Diogenes, phone home! Oh, joy, the hypocrites got a wrist slap!" woo hoo. Let alone feeling like we've crawled out of the slime pit because, in one instance in ten thousand, part of what should have happened, did happen. Lemme know when cops who commit crimes are pressing license plates.

I saw this on the Spokane news last night, and they had a quote from one of the council members basically saying that he was fired not for being an alcoholic or for the DUI/crash, but for leaving the scene. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know if that's the best (or even a valid) approach to defending their decision when he sues, but I expect that (and that they offered to keep him on as a desk jockey and he declined) is the approach they'll go with. Having a judge decide in his favor would mean that being drunk (even as the result of a disability) was a legitimate excuse for that level of irresponsibility and would set a disastrous precedent, as someone upthread mentioned.

libranoelrose,
Other than that put him on ignore.

I really hate ignore lists. Sometimes trolls really did deserve it, Winterwhile with his political cartoon meme was really annoying and didn't add value.

And trolls, (sometimes known as those that offer an alternative point of view, even somewhat irrationaly), have a function. Diversity of opinion. Sometimes they are out to get a reaction, but sometimes they prevent boards like these from becoming a circlejerk of one opinion.

I can go to another another website, see pics of kittens posted, and offer reassurance to another poster. I just don't see any interesting comments sometimes.

Trolls when kept in check have a function too.

buckeyebrain: Waiting patiently for the Fark Cop Apologists to tell us why this Knight In Blue deserves every penny of back pay and an engraved apology...

One, you're an idiot.

Two, good decision on the city. What makes anyone think that the man is responsable enough to be a cop when he's not even responable enough not to drive after drinking.

buckeyebrain: Waiting patiently for the Fark Cop Apologists to tell us why this Knight In Blue deserves every penny of back pay and an engraved apology...

- and keys to the evidence room coke locker
- paid prostitute breaks
- paid PTSD sessions while still on the street
- free gas to drive around while grabbin kickbacks
- monogrammed get out of jail free cards
- state paid lawyers

what am i missing here?

The police department says it has been receiving a lot of comments from the community about the disapproval over the settlement.

Props to the people for speaking up.

The last name I had was pretty gay...: I don't get it. Why would this even need to be discussed?

because police corruption in North America is out of hand?

Don't worry, they'll hire him back as a consultant with thrice the pay.

/I just like the word "thrice."