Pfft.. What does Warren Buffet know about lending or financial institutions?

Well, if people were taking out second mortgages for cash and then benefiting from government-negotiated foreclosure regulations, then yes, those individuals made out like bandits. This doesn't mean that banks are to blame for other atrocities, or that other honest people haven't been screwed over in the housing catastrophe.

doesn't mean that banks *aren't to blame... lemme get some coffee.

Sounds like some banks need to find those bootstraps down there...

"Blame for the housing bubble and subsequent slump should be shared among lenders and borrowers, as well as the government, bond-rating firms and the media, Buffett has said... Buffett praised Jamie Dimon, CEO of JPMorgan Chase & Co., and Bank of America's Brian T. Moynihan. JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs, Wells Fargo and Bank of America have all repaid U.S. bailout funds."

you can't buy that kind of PR.

/did you hear that?
//it's the sound of Buffett's share holdings increasing 0.5%

Yes, it was the homeowners repackaging mortgages, slapping a AAA label on them, and passing them around like a game of hot potato. The homeowner's responsibility ends when they lose their house. They had nothing to do with the economic crash.

Only in that sometimes a predator gets injured by unexpectedly difficult prey. Or like, gets worms from picking off the sick and the weak. Probably closer to the worms thing in this scenario.

Blame for the housing bubble and subsequent slump should be shared among lenders and borrowers, as well as the government, bond-rating firms and the media, Buffett has said

He's absolutely right on this one. Financial industry didn't cause the mortgage crisis or recession singlehandedly, they had plenty of help from many other parties. It's too bad that so many people are so blinded by ideology to see this.

And only on Fark is someone who borrows money but doesn't pay it back automatically 'victim'.

Debeo Summa Credo: Blame for the housing bubble and subsequent slump should be shared among lenders and borrowers, as well as the government, bond-rating firms and the media, Buffett has said

He's absolutely right on this one. Financial industry didn't cause the mortgage crisis or recession singlehandedly, they had plenty of help from many other parties. It's too bad that so many people are so blinded by ideology to see this.

And only on Fark is someone who borrows money but doesn't pay it back automatically 'victim'.

And if somebody who obviously didn't understand the loan process and repayment terms was given a loan they could never hope to repay through the use of blatantly fraudulent loan applications that were falsified by the lender's employees, that's all on them, right?

Debeo Summa Credo: Financial industry didn't cause the mortgage crisis or recession singlehandedly

Yes, it did.
They had control over who they lent money to. It's no one's fault but their own that they lent to bad credit risks, and no one's fault but their own that they then repackaged the mortgages and sent them into the ether to poison the entire system.

The delinquent homeowner already got his comeuppance, he lost his home. He bears no more responsibility.

Debeo Summa Credo: He's absolutely right on this one. Financial industry didn't cause the mortgage crisis or recession singlehandedly, they had plenty of help from many other parties. It's too bad that so many people are so blinded by ideology to see this.

And only on Fark is someone who borrows money but doesn't pay it back automatically 'victim'.

Yeah, the financial industry did cause the recession singlehandedly by creating credit default swaps and basically poisoning the financial resources of the entire world by tying them up in useless products.

It's like I collected all the shiat from a sewage processing plant, made it into cookies, and sold them as a cure for cancer worldwide. Now that everybody has e. coli, I'm saying "Well, yeah, maybe I shouldn't have put so much shiat in the cookies, but the guy who was sitting on his toilet has some of the blame, too!"

Also, ask yourself why that guy couldn't pay back his mortgage. Do you think he might've lost his job because the economy cratered and he got laid off, so therefore couldn't make his payments? Or maybe because the economy was cratered, he couldn't refinance before his balloon payment, like the banker assured him he would be able to?

Dictatorial_Flair: Debeo Summa Credo: Blame for the housing bubble and subsequent slump should be shared among lenders and borrowers, as well as the government, bond-rating firms and the media, Buffett has said

He's absolutely right on this one. Financial industry didn't cause the mortgage crisis or recession singlehandedly, they had plenty of help from many other parties. It's too bad that so many people are so blinded by ideology to see this.

And only on Fark is someone who borrows money but doesn't pay it back automatically 'victim'.

And if somebody who obviously didn't understand the loan process and repayment terms was given a loan they could never hope to repay through the use of blatantly fraudulent loan applications that were falsified by the lender's employees, that's all on them, right?

If someone don't understand the loan process, they probably shouldn't buy a house. You go to remarkable lengths to blame everyone but the person who signed the contract in the first place. Caveat emptor.

Trey Le Parc: If someone don't understand the loan process, they probably shouldn't buy a house.

The loan officer is there to guide them through the process, because not everyone is an expert on mortgages. The question remains why these loan officers were giving loans to people who couldn't possibly repay, while telling them that they could. It was the bank's money to risk, and they chose poorly. No one's fault but the bank's.

As I mentioned before, the homeowner already bore the brunt of his bad decision, he lost his house. His responsibility ends there.

Sergeant Grumbles: Trey Le Parc: If someone don't understand the loan process, they probably shouldn't buy a house.

The loan officer is there to guide them through the process, because not everyone is an expert on mortgages. The question remains why these loan officers were giving loans to people who couldn't possibly repay, while telling them that they could. It was the bank's money to risk, and they chose poorly. No one's fault but the bank's.

As I mentioned before, the homeowner already bore the brunt of his bad decision, he lost his house. His responsibility ends there.

No, the homeowner lost only what they put down on the house. The bank lost whatever cash was lent less the proceeds from the sale of the now-depreciated house. Both parties took a loss that they deserved. But the point is they both were party to the transaction, both took losses that they deserve, and both are responsible for the contribution that loan made to the financial crisis. Does the banks' responsibilty 'end there' when they take a loss on a loan?

Moreover, RTFA. Cash out refis are a different scenario where homeowners actually made money. People took out cash from refis and then defaulted on the loans. If someone bought a house for $100k paying 10% down, then paid down $5k in principal over a few years, then did a cash out refi when the house's value went up to $150k, taking out $35k in cash, then defaulted on the mortgage when the value of the home went back down to $100k, they actually are up $20k that they took out of the banks' pocket.

Trey Le Parc: Dictatorial_Flair: Debeo Summa Credo: Blame for the housing bubble and subsequent slump should be shared among lenders and borrowers, as well as the government, bond-rating firms and the media, Buffett has said

He's absolutely right on this one. Financial industry didn't cause the mortgage crisis or recession singlehandedly, they had plenty of help from many other parties. It's too bad that so many people are so blinded by ideology to see this.

And only on Fark is someone who borrows money but doesn't pay it back automatically 'victim'.

And if somebody who obviously didn't understand the loan process and repayment terms was given a loan they could never hope to repay through the use of blatantly fraudulent loan applications that were falsified by the lender's employees, that's all on them, right?

If someone don't understand the loan process, they probably shouldn't buy a house. You go to remarkable lengths to blame everyone but the person who signed the contract in the first place. Caveat emptor.

That's right. If people are too stupid to understand that they need to pay back loans they take out with interest, we need restrictions on who can take out loans. Minimum down payments and minimum FICOs would be a good start. But I suspect most of the people who think borrowers who don't pay back loans are victims would complain that such restrictions are unfair because they restrict credit to the poor and stupid.

Debeo Summa Credo: Does the banks' responsibilty 'end there' when they take a loss on a loan?

If they hadn't engaged in other practices that led to the poisoning of the entire system, yes, it would have ended there. But that's not what happened now, is it?
It was the banks' money to lend, and for whatever reason, they decided to lend it to bad credit risks. When that turned out to be a bad idea, it was no one's fault but the banks'. But then, I'm sure you don't expect banks to be responsible with their own money, now do you?

Sergeant Grumbles: Debeo Summa Credo: Does the banks' responsibilty 'end there' when they take a loss on a loan?

If they hadn't engaged in other practices that led to the poisoning of the entire system, yes, it would have ended there. But that's not what happened now, is it?
It was the banks' money to lend, and for whatever reason, they decided to lend it to bad credit risks. When that turned out to be a bad idea, it was no one's fault but the banks'. But then, I'm sure you don't expect banks to be responsible with their own money, now do you?

Of course they are responsible for their own money. Borrowers are responsible for their own economic decisions as well. If we are going to ascribe blame to parties for the overall recession and mortgage crisis, they are both responsible for the secondary impacts their bad decisions have on the overall economy.

Banks are the only ones building new buildings around these here parts. Them and CVS, Walgreens, and the local hospital system. Really nice buildings.

Debeo Summa Credo: If we are going to ascribe blame to parties for the overall recession and mortgage crisis, they are both responsible for the secondary impacts their bad decisions have on the overall economy.

Wrong again. You're laboring of the assumption that the homeowner had some control over what the bank did with its money. Since it was the banks who had the final say in who they lent money to, they take ultimate responsibility.
What other industry is there where the customer is responsible for the actions of the businesses they patronize? None that I know of. Now unless you're suggesting that I be arrested because a bar I frequent sold liquor to a minor, I don't see how you can claim a homeowner be held responsible for their mortgage holder's shiatty business plan.

Sergeant Grumbles: Debeo Summa Credo: If we are going to ascribe blame to parties for the overall recession and mortgage crisis, they are both responsible for the secondary impacts their bad decisions have on the overall economy.

Wrong again. You're laboring of the assumption that the homeowner had some control over what the bank did with its money. Since it was the banks who had the final say in who they lent money to, they take ultimate responsibility.
What other industry is there where the customer is responsible for the actions of the businesses they patronize? None that I know of. Now unless you're suggesting that I be arrested because a bar I frequent sold liquor to a minor, I don't see how you can claim a homeowner be held responsible for their mortgage holder's shiatty business plan.

I'm not saying that the banks' aren't responsible for their own balance sheets, only that many factors caused the recession and the mortgage crisis. Buyers/borrowers contributed to the real estate bubble, no? And the collapse of that bubble is the proximate cause for the recession, no?

And, to get back to the point of TFA, in no way shape or form are borrowers, who received money which they never paid back, victims.

Trey Le Parc: If someone don't understand the loan process, they probably shouldn't buy a house. You go to remarkable lengths to blame everyone but the person who signed the contract in the first place. Caveat emptor.

Do I? I've never really said that the lenders don't bear part of the blame, but they're not the ones giving out the loans. They're (sometimes) not even the ones who provided the information that allowed them to get a loan that was for multiple times as much as they could possibly afford. It was the banks' duty to determine if they were creditworthy and they completely shirked it. It's not so much the fact that people took out loans they couldn't pay or that banks made bad decisions, it was the rampant fraud and neglect of due diligence that irks me.

Debeo Summa Credo: That's right. If people are too stupid to understand that they need to pay back loans they take out with interest, we need restrictions on who can take out loans. Minimum down payments and minimum FICOs would be a good start. But I suspect most of the people who think borrowers who don't pay back loans are victims would complain that such restrictions are unfair because they restrict credit to the poor and stupid.

Actually I think that easing the restrictions and declaring a financial free for all was moronic. It doesn't change the fact that many people were deliberately deceived in order to produce more loans to package and chop up to sell as commodities. Sometimes idiots need to be protected from themselves, and we have almost nothing in place to do that. If everything was so innocent on the part of the banks, why do you think the consumer protection bureau is being railed against so hard?

Dictatorial_Flair: I've never really said that the lenders borrowers don't bear part of the blame,

I fail at proofreading.

robo cry