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(Huffington Post)   The separation of church and state - one of the core tenets of American democracy - makes Rick Santorum "want to throw up"   ( huffingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Sick, American Democracy, Rick Santorum  
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16583 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Feb 2012 at 8:27 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-26 10:17:06 PM  

xl5150: You can deny it all you want and try to be as pedantic as you can possibly get, but the truth is that the US is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.


Here is a full text of the Constitution of the United States:

Link (new window)

Here is a list of all the Amendments to the Constitution:

Link (new window)

Nowhere in either document do the words "God", "Christ", "Jesus", or "Christian" appear. "Lord" appears, but only in the context of "Year of our Lord".

If the United States was designed to be a "Christain Nation", you'd think they would mention such somewhere in there, don't you?
 
2012-02-26 10:17:15 PM  
Freedom of religion and supremacy are antonymous no? Perhaps those such as foamy seek to blur, if not remove completely, this distinction.
 
2012-02-26 10:17:41 PM  
Mr. Santrum, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
 
2012-02-26 10:17:55 PM  

StanTheMan: MrEricSir: And sure, the phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the first amendment. So what? The term "gun" is not in the second amendment either.

Where did anyone here claim that "gun" is "a core tenet of American democracy"?


In the regular twice weekly gun nut threads ... the actual intent of the 2nd amendment was to allow for local militias to prevent government from becoming overbearing, not to allow rednecks to blow away the black neighbour kid.
 
2012-02-26 10:18:11 PM  

Bevets: Santorum also on Sunday told Meet The Press host David Gregory that separation of church and state was "not the founders' vision."

Bevets:

The 'Wall of Separation' is sacred to Secular Fundamentalists and invisible in the constitution.

Weaver95:

given the apparently lack of interest in addressing the core issue under discusison I can only assume silent consent.

I agree that the 'Wall of Separation' is a Secular Fundamentalist fiction.


If there's one thing I'm sure you know about, it's fiction.
 
2012-02-26 10:18:58 PM  

Bevets: I agree that the 'Wall of Separation' is a Secular Fundamentalist fiction.


no, that's you lying to yourself. which is entirely fine - I certainly can't stop you from doing so.

That said, you've got a real problem though - the treaty of Tripoli utterly and completely destroys the lie that america was founded as a 'christian nation'. I suppose you could keep repeating the lie as loudly and often as possible...but here on the intertubes, deliberate distortions such as that get exposed rather quickly and are easily ignored.
 
2012-02-26 10:20:18 PM  

Karma Curmudgeon: One would think that if God wanted a truly wanted a bigger role in US government, He would have gotten better lawyers.


what do you think Lucifer's first job was....
 
2012-02-26 10:23:23 PM  

crispyone: I think the whole goal was freedom of religion....not freedom from religion. This separation of church and state has gotten blown so far out of proportion that people can't say "Merry Christmas" even if they work at a private company or someone will sue.


No, it hasn't, and no, they won't.

And no matter what people say there is a huge bias involved against Christians. A Christian has a decorative candle of the Virgin Mary and will be forced to take it down because it could offend people but a Hindu can have a decorative candle of Vishnu and it's no problem.

I question where you work that allows candles of any kind.

It's just BS and I can't figure out how anyone can defend it. I recently moved to NYC and was suprised to see that my kid has jewish holidays off...but no Christian holidays off at all.

Except Good Friday, Easter, and Christmas. (new window)

What exactly are they missing?
 
2012-02-26 10:23:25 PM  

xl5150: You can deny it all you want and try to be as pedantic as you can possibly get, but the truth is that the US is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.


The number of times the words "Jesus" or "Christ" are mentioned in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution (including the Bill of Rights) is precisely zero.

The first clause of the first sentence of the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

The country is eighty percent Christian. But its founding documents do not lay the legal foundation for a Christian nation.
 
2012-02-26 10:24:22 PM  

Bevets: Santorum also on Sunday told Meet The Press host David Gregory that separation of church and state was "not the founders' vision."

Bevets:

The 'Wall of Separation' is sacred to Secular Fundamentalists and invisible in the constitution.

Weaver95:

given the apparently lack of interest in addressing the core issue under discusison I can only assume silent consent.

I agree that the 'Wall of Separation' is a Secular Fundamentalist fiction.


What's a "Secular Fundamentalist"? Is that your fancy term for atheists and agnostics?

Sorry, Charlie, but no religion needs to be part of the governing body. I don't need or want ANY religion making laws telling me I must become one of them, who I should and shouldn't love, what I should and shouldn't eat, when I should an shouldn't work. There's enough of their proclaiming all who aren't them being evil and trying to destroy the world as it is, the thought of them having the power to force themselves on everyone and enact their views of what the country "should" be is bone-chilling.

It's time to get with the 21st century. People survived and thrived long before religion was invented because they naturally knew how to get along and work together, we can do it today too.
 
2012-02-26 10:24:32 PM  

JerseyTim: The GOP candidate was responding to comments he made last October. He had said that he "almost threw up" after reading JFK's 1960 speech in which he declared his commitment to the separation of church and state.

Here is JFK's speech.


And JFK was trying to make the public accept the fact that a Catholic president wouldn't try to impose "Papistry" on America. i'm sure if JFK knew idiots like Newt and Rick were now the new Catholics he'd be spinning in his grave harder than John John's plane crashing into the ocean.
 
2012-02-26 10:24:44 PM  

crispyone: I think the whole goal was freedom of religion....not freedom from religion. This separation of church and state has gotten blown so far out of proportion that people can't say "Merry Christmas" even if they work at a private company or someone will sue. And no matter what people say there is a huge bias involved against Christians. A Christian has a decorative candle of the Virgin Mary and will be forced to take it down because it could offend people but a Hindu can have a decorative candle of Vishnu and it's no problem.

It's just BS and I can't figure out how anyone can defend it. I recently moved to NYC and was suprised to see that my kid has jewish holidays off...but no Christian holidays off at all.

Why is nobody complaining about my kid being forced to miss school because of some jewish holiday??


Until I can pay good money to watch Santorum, Hannity, Dobson, and others of your ilk get chased around an arena and eaten by lions I really don't wish to hear how "oppressed" you are.

/would gladly pay $1000 for a Santorum, Hannity, Dobson tripleheader
 
2012-02-26 10:26:20 PM  

JungleBoogie: xl5150: You can deny it all you want and try to be as pedantic as you can possibly get, but the truth is that the US is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.

The number of times the words "Jesus" or "Christ" are mentioned in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution (including the Bill of Rights) is precisely zero.

The first clause of the first sentence of the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

The country is eighty percent Christian. But its founding documents do not lay the legal foundation for a Christian nation.


He thinks any mention of God refers to Jesus because Christians forget that Jews knew their God for thousands of years before they decided the original wasn't good enough.
 
2012-02-26 10:26:44 PM  

Karma Curmudgeon: One would think that if God wanted a truly wanted a bigger role in US government, He would have gotten better lawyers.


I'd be perfectly willing to give God just as much say in the government as he wants. All he has to do is come say he wants it.
 
2012-02-26 10:26:58 PM  
yet his supporters are using the separation between the church and state as a wedge issue for the health care debate.

e.g., it's Unconstitutional for the Govt to make a Church-owned company provide contraceptives!!! derp)

You can't have it both ways - you can't decry the fact that the Constitution limits you from using the state to spread religious doctrine over the citizens and then turn around and say that the Constitution protects you from anti-discrimination laws/ public health policies that you disagree with.

oh, that's right, you can because you're a big fat hypocrite.

/with a small penis.
 
2012-02-26 10:27:43 PM  
You want freedom of religion; fine. So do I. What you don't seem able to get into your farking thick skull is that freedom of religion doesn't mean just freedom of your religion. You want to lead a theocracy, go join the priesthood and move to Rome and campaign for farking Pope, you farking self-righteous pridelful fark, you.
 
2012-02-26 10:28:45 PM  

crispyone: I think the whole goal was freedom of religion....not freedom from religion. This separation of church and state has gotten blown so far out of proportion that people can't say "Merry Christmas" even if they work at a private company or someone will sue. And no matter what people say there is a huge bias involved against Christians. A Christian has a decorative candle of the Virgin Mary and will be forced to take it down because it could offend people but a Hindu can have a decorative candle of Vishnu and it's no problem.

It's just BS and I can't figure out how anyone can defend it. I recently moved to NYC and was suprised to see that my kid has jewish holidays off...but no Christian holidays off at all.

Why is nobody complaining about my kid being forced to miss school because of some jewish holiday??


To quote Jon Stewart: "You're confusing a war on religion with not always getting what you want."
 
2012-02-26 10:29:42 PM  

Weaver95: Karma Curmudgeon: One would think that if God wanted a truly wanted a bigger role in US government, He would have gotten better lawyers.

what do you think Lucifer's first job was....


lh4.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-02-26 10:30:26 PM  
A couple of people have said (eloquently, even!) that this is not a big deal, and that Santorum is actually correct. Technically speaking, yes, the separation is not absolute. However, the broader issue is that this, taken in context with every other (nutjob) thing that Santorum has said, makes it clear that your point is not the one he is making. He is, like many others of his ilk, perfectly content to have a theocracy in place here. As long as it's his religion, and not some "false" theology.
 
2012-02-26 10:30:56 PM  
I don't know if there's a single Santorum supporter in this thread that isn't just trolling for lulz, but incase there is, let me make one simple point;

Remember how concerned you were about Sharia Law taking over the United States and being forced on you? The exact same rules that prevent that from happening are the rules that Santorum is arguing against here.

Deal with it.
 
2012-02-26 10:31:05 PM  
here's what wikipedia has to say about the Treaty of Tripoli:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,-and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.



hard to get around that statement. But it gets even worse for Santorum:

The Senate's ratification was only the third time in history the Senate had voted unanimously. It was the 339th time that the Senate decided to require a recorded vote. The treaty was printed in the Philadelphia Gazette and two New York papers, with no evidence of any public dissent

so it's pretty clear that everyone then agreed that the US was not a 'christian nation', nor was that EVER the intent. slam dunk case if ever there was one.
 
2012-02-26 10:31:34 PM  

GAT_00: I would go with a more simple angle of 'Rick Santorum hates the Founding Fathers and the Constitution' but whatever.


Well, apparently he's not too keen on the pursuit of happiness, either, so I'd say that's probably correct.

Republicans, why do you hate America?
 
2012-02-26 10:32:18 PM  

Backwards Cornfield Races: Okay seriously, who paid this guy to say all this stuff. No one is literally this crazy, he must being getting paid by the obama camp to help their campaign


You may not remember...but GW Bush got elected TWICE not long ago. This country is full of religious whack jobs.
 
2012-02-26 10:32:33 PM  
Santorum also on Sunday told Meet The Press host David Gregory that separation of church and state was "not the founders' vision."

Bevets:

The 'Wall of Separation' is sacred to Secular Fundamentalists and invisible in the constitution.

Weaver95:

given the apparently lack of interest in addressing the core issue under discusison I can only assume silent consent.


Bevets:

I agree that the 'Wall of Separation' is a Secular Fundamentalist fiction.

Weaver95:

That said, you've got a real problem though - the treaty of Tripoli utterly and completely destroys the lie that america was founded as a 'christian nation'. I suppose you could keep repeating the lie as loudly and often as possible...but here on the intertubes, deliberate distortions such as that get exposed rather quickly and are easily ignored.

Can we agree that your carefully constructed strawman 'America was founded as a Christian nation' ignores the point being discussed: the 'Wall of Separation' has never been what Secular Fundamentalists would like it to be?
 
2012-02-26 10:36:20 PM  

Brainwash: Backwards Cornfield Races: Okay seriously, who paid this guy to say all this stuff. No one is literally this crazy, he must being getting paid by the obama camp to help their campaign

You may not remember...but GW Bush got elected TWICE not long ago. This country is full of religious whack jobs.


It's filled with a lot more people with the feeling of "meh" when it comes to voting. It's astounding the muber I've spoken to who don't vote say they don't vote to make a statement...

I wonder how that's going for them?
 
2012-02-26 10:36:29 PM  
Um...Rick, perhaps this might be a moment to slip this in here...

lh6.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-02-26 10:36:30 PM  

Bevets: Can we agree that your carefully constructed strawman 'America was founded as a Christian nation' ignores the point being discussed: the 'Wall of Separation' has never been what Secular Fundamentalists would like it to be?


So, in other words, "Can we ignore your straw man, and instead pay attention to mine?"
 
2012-02-26 10:36:44 PM  
Rick Santorum is the year's Sarah Palin.

With the present SCOTUS, seperation of American citizens and Constituional Rights is almost complete.
 
2012-02-26 10:37:43 PM  

Espertron: "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


SO MUCH THIS.
 
2012-02-26 10:38:03 PM  

Bevets: Can we agree that your carefully constructed strawman 'America was founded as a Christian nation' ignores the point being discussed: the 'Wall of Separation' has never been what Secular Fundamentalists would like it to be?


ah, so you're going to move the goal posts. good call. you could also change the subject and throw in a nice ad hominem attack for good measure. who knows? it might even work.

still....that Treaty of Tripoli thing is out of the bag now. gonna be damn near impossible for you (or anyone on the religious right really) to go around saying the US is a 'christian nation'. it puts paid to the entire conversation. it undermines Santorums statements regarding the seperation of church and state too for that matter. Not that Jefferson himself didn't already destroy Santorum's outright lies on the subject.

I do have to wonder just WHY Santorum and the religious right even bother making such statements? documentary evidence easily and quite handily disproves their statements before they even get off the ground. which goes back to my earlier statement - either santorum is very poorly educated...or he's deliberately lying to voters.
 
2012-02-26 10:40:14 PM  

Brainwash: You may not remember...but GW Bush got elected TWICE not long ago. This country is full of religious whack jobs.


My family is so Republican that my uncle wanted to schedule his own death before estate taxes went up... but I don't believe a single one of them could honestly stand to vote Santorum.
 
2012-02-26 10:40:17 PM  

Weaver95: either santorum is very poorly educated...or he's deliberately lying to voters.


Are you saying xl5150 is Santorum's Fark handle?
 
2012-02-26 10:40:17 PM  

ib_thinkin: Bevets: Can we agree that your carefully constructed strawman 'America was founded as a Christian nation' ignores the point being discussed: the 'Wall of Separation' has never been what Secular Fundamentalists would like it to be?

So, in other words, "Can we ignore your straw man, and instead pay attention to mine?"


Which is confusing, because Bevets was the one saying America is a Christian nation, and he just accused Weaver95 of saying that. I think. Bevets habit of constantly quoting himself is (possibly deliberately) confusing.
 
2012-02-26 10:40:25 PM  

Weaver95: I do have to wonder just WHY Santorum and the religious right even bother making such statements? documentary evidence easily and quite handily disproves their statements before they even get off the ground. which goes back to my earlier statement - either santorum is very poorly educated...or he's deliberately lying to voters.


he's lying to voters because it works. People aren't educated in history and actually believe him when he says that bullshiat because it confirms their own desires.
 
2012-02-26 10:40:41 PM  
Damnit, I feel like I'm losing my country.

I want to cry. I have no place in Santorum's America, and that people are agreeing with him has me sick.
 
2012-02-26 10:41:34 PM  

Jack's Cracker: A couple of people have said (eloquently, even!) that this is not a big deal, and that Santorum is actually correct. Technically speaking, yes, the separation is not absolute. However, the broader issue is that this, taken in context with every other (nutjob) thing that Santorum has said, makes it clear that your point is not the one he is making. He is, like many others of his ilk, perfectly content to have a theocracy in place here. As long as it's his religion, and not some "false" theology.


The thing is, it's always about context. And sadly, you have to take statements in context. Especially, given the hypocrisy that Rick shows in matters of religious freedom on any other day, or the plasticity of his commitment to the Constitution, and even his interpretations.
 
2012-02-26 10:41:57 PM  

crispyone: I think the whole goal was freedom of religion....not freedom from religion. This separation of church and state has gotten blown so far out of proportion that people can't say "Merry Christmas" even if they work at a private company or someone will sue. And no matter what people say there is a huge bias involved against Christians. A Christian has a decorative candle of the Virgin Mary and will be forced to take it down because it could offend people but a Hindu can have a decorative candle of Vishnu and it's no problem.

It's just BS and I can't figure out how anyone can defend it. I recently moved to NYC and was suprised to see that my kid has jewish holidays off...but no Christian holidays off at all.

Why is nobody complaining about my kid being forced to miss school because of some jewish holiday??


So, you are either a liar or so ignorant that you cannot even pay attention to when your kid leaves the house to go to school. Either way, you join Tatsuma and Animal/Black on my ignore list.
 
2012-02-26 10:43:44 PM  
Santorum and his ilk want to tear down the wall of separation because they think if they do, their particular church would get control of the government.

It never occurs to them that it would be the other way around.
 
2012-02-26 10:45:25 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah:

Which is confusing, because Bevets was the one saying America is a Christian nation, and he just accused Weaver95 of saying that. I think. Bevets habit of constantly quoting himself is (possibly deliberately) confusing.


Bevets is Weaver's alt, he likes to troll himself
 
2012-02-26 10:45:36 PM  
fark's sake, Bevets, just because you are completely blinded by and obsessed with your faith, does that mean that I also must be blinded by it?

Do you really believe that was what Jesus meant? You think he basically meant "Kneel before Zod"?

If you want a theocracy so bad, move to Saudi Arabia.
 
2012-02-26 10:48:02 PM  
I never thought a day would come when I would feel the need to donate to a political candidate and volunteer time to their campaign.

I promise if Santorum gets the republican nomination, I will donate $100 to Obama and volunteer my time to make sure Santorum loses.
 
2012-02-26 10:48:16 PM  

Bevets: Santorum also on Sunday told Meet The Press host David Gregory that separation of church and state was "not the founders' vision."

The 'Wall of Separation' is sacred to Secular Fundamentalists and invisible in the constitution.


If they wanted a Christian nation, I would think that the terms "Jesus" or "Christ" would appear at least once somewhere in the founding documents (Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights). But they don't appear.
 
2012-02-26 10:48:18 PM  

Geotpf: Here is a full text of the Constitution of the United States:

Link (new window)

Here is a list of all the Amendments to the Constitution:

Link (new window)

Nowhere in either document do the words "God", "Christ", "Jesus", or "Christian" appear. "Lord" appears, but only in the context of "Year of our Lord".


Interestingly, I did find the word "welfare". I gues that settles THAT debate once and for all.
 
2012-02-26 10:48:59 PM  

SilentStrider: Weaver95: I do have to wonder just WHY Santorum and the religious right even bother making such statements? documentary evidence easily and quite handily disproves their statements before they even get off the ground. which goes back to my earlier statement - either santorum is very poorly educated...or he's deliberately lying to voters.

he's lying to voters because it works. People aren't educated in history and actually believe him when he says that bullshiat because it confirms their own desires.


see, but it cuts both ways. Santorum might honestly believe that the US was founded as a 'christian nation'. he strikes me as the sort to ignore facts that get in the way of his political/religious views. Now, before you get all huffy about that, consider that such a trait is a VERY human failure and common among believers and non-believers alike. so while it's right to point out Ricky's flawed assumptions remember not to judge him TOO harshly for making a mistake that many people make in their lives.

Of course, Santorum is also a politican. he knows how to play to an audience, and he's presumably learned from past mistakes that cost him his position in Pennsylvania. one COULD assume that Santorum chooses to openly and willingly lie about this whole 'christian nation' nonesense as a purely tactical move. think about it for a moment - it puts you on the defensive. instead of going ahead in a debate about issues, you're stuck mired in dealing with Santorum's warped and deliberately distorted view of history. Ricky piles up the lies and distortions and keeps right on chugging until he wins, all the while knowing that nobody is EVER going to call him out on the lies or take him to task for his skullduggery.
 
2012-02-26 10:49:37 PM  
RTFA. So this is what desperate flailing looks like, huh? Like a man about to drown, with no idea how he might survive, unless he could just push himself up and out, if he could just push hard enough. It's heartbreaking to witness.

Silverstaff: I would say that a treaty ratified unanimously by a Senate full of Founding Fathers, with the full support of an administration who was filled with Founding Fathers (much of the Senate were combat vets from the Revolution, if they weren't politicians during the war, they were fighting it), with not a single dissenting vote in the Senate or any historic record of any letters of protest or public outcry against this treaty explicitly saying the United States is not a Christian state is extremely strong evidence that the founders of this nation never intended for this county to be Christian, it is intended to be secular.


Not the least also because at least half the Founders were Deists rather than Christians. Jefferson loved the New Testament for its philosophical and moral content, but so objected to what he considered a ridiculous story about a magical man that he wrote his own version, with all that 'fanciful' stuff cut out. You can still buy The Jefferson Bible today. I own a copy myself.

Gleeman: /used to be a Republican, until they went crazy
//now registered as Independent


I remember Lincoln Chafee (R.I.) responding to criticisms that he 'abandoned' the GOP by saying that he didn't the party, the party left him. I've been saying for some time now that the GOP has been gradually purging itself of its best people, and will eventually have to pay for it, through increasingly dramatic failures. That will unfortunately give undo strength to the Democratic Party, with predictable results that will seem oddly familiar to people: arrogance, corruption, and everything else that inevitably comes of unchecked power. So this isn't just bad for Republicans, it's bad for Democrats, too. Eventually, it's bad for everyone.

Artcurus: This man scares the hell of me.


I wouldn't let it concern you so much. The president is not, despite how Americans act about it, a despot. He has substantial powers, but they are constrained by law. Most of the things people get freaked out or stoked over regarding various candidates are things that are actually the purview of Congress or the States, not the presidency.

JWideman: This. He thinks the entire US is like Butler, PA.


Now *that's* scary. I've been there, more than once.

propasaurus: xl5150: Weaver95: you are either very poorly educated or deliberately lying.

I'd say the truly poorly educated are those who base the belief of their entire existence upon a THEORY.

Ah, troll it is.


Don't be too quick to judge. He could just be an idiot. That's very common, too.

ib_thinkin: JRoo: The founders of America were fleeing state-sponsored religious persecution and wanted a nation where all their religions were was allowed.

If you're talking about the Pilgrims, the Colonies, or even the early States, FTFY (new window).

"In newly independent America, there was a crazy quilt of state laws regarding religion. In Massachusetts, only Christians were allowed to hold public office, and Catholics were allowed to do so only after renouncing papal authority. In 1777, New York State's constitution banned Catholics from public office (and would do so until 1806). In Maryland, Catholics had full civil rights, but Jews did not. Delaware required an oath affirming belief in the Trinity. Several states, including Massachusetts and South Carolina, had official, state-supported churches."


It's true. The Ivy League started as a collection of divinity schools, each set up to bolster the official state denomination of its particular state. The big white church you see in the middle of every town in Connecticut is there for an important historical reason: At the early days, you couldn't have a town until you had a church -- and it had to be UCC. These are still all UCC churches, to this day. In many Connecticut towns, the UCC still has some claim over most or all of the property in town centres. (This doesn't violate separation, by the way, because it's based in common land laws, the same as a municipality leasing land from a church, which is also legal.)

Separation wasn't just someone's neat idea. It was absolutely essential to a functioning nation with such disparate religious beliefs. Even more so now than then.

BitwiseShift: How are they going to justify the church tax (where you pay the government for the upkeep of churches)?


We've been over this already. Church taxes are tax-deductible pass-through tithes, entirely voluntary for everyone involved, and cost the state nothing.

mod3072: I thought that it was the Republicans who were pissing their pants in fear of religious law taking over the US?


Yeah, but that's different because Muzlumz.

Weaver95: Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers


It depends somewhat on how you define 'Founding Father'. He was enormously influential during the Declaration and post-war peace, the early Confederation government, and certainly later during the federation. But he was not a delegate to the Constitutional Convention that drafted the original Constitution. His ideas were undoubtedly influential upon the Framers, but he was not in a position to infuse them directly into the document.

FirstNationalBastard: American Taliban


Heh.

www.laughparty.com

I think my favourite is On Your Knees and Praline.

Ed Finnerty: xl5150: You can deny it all you want and try to be as pedantic as you can possibly get, but the truth is that the US is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.

You can deny it all you want and try to be as pedantic as you can possibly get, but the truth is that Christianity is a Pagan religion based on Pagan principles.


Well, sure, if you want to be pedantic and trace it all the way back to its ancient roots in Zoroastrian sun worship. But that would be rude and insensitive.

Bevets: Santorum also on Sunday told Meet The Press host David Gregory that separation of church and state was "not the founders' vision."

The 'Wall of Separation' is sacred to Secular Fundamentalists and invisible in the constitution.


Hee. I'll give you this, Bevs, you never disappoint. I'm going to hire you someday. I don't know for what yet. Something you'll enjoy, I promise.

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: Get elected. Impose this.


Why do so many people seem to think that the president has powers like this? He doesn't.
 
2012-02-26 10:51:43 PM  

DarwiOdrade: Weaver95: either santorum is very poorly educated...or he's deliberately lying to voters.

Are you saying xl5150 is Santorum's Fark handle?


sometimes I really do wonder if campaign staffers post to fark under various names.
 
2012-02-26 10:53:58 PM  

ParaHandy: Keizer_Ghidorah:

Which is confusing, because Bevets was the one saying America is a Christian nation, and he just accused Weaver95 of saying that. I think. Bevets habit of constantly quoting himself is (possibly deliberately) confusing.

Bevets is Weaver's alt, he likes to troll himself


Is this true?
 
2012-02-26 10:54:23 PM  

ParaHandy: Keizer_Ghidorah:

Which is confusing, because Bevets was the one saying America is a Christian nation, and he just accused Weaver95 of saying that. I think. Bevets habit of constantly quoting himself is (possibly deliberately) confusing.

Bevets is Weaver's alt, he likes to troll himself


Just because you hate both doesn't mean they're the same person.
 
2012-02-26 10:55:19 PM  
So how does this compare to an article last week where a judge who was an Iraq vet declared it was OK for a member of the "Religion of Peace" to assault a guy dressed as Zombie Mohammed in a halloween parade because his religion/sharia law demanded it?


/note the catholics/papaislsts didnt nuke zombie pope nor did random xtians/jews/buddhisgs/shintos/zoarasters/etc... touch any religious figure in that parade, just the dirkadirkamohammadjihad crowd
//serial Constitution > islam
 
2012-02-26 10:56:28 PM  

Fista-Phobia: ParaHandy: Keizer_Ghidorah:

Which is confusing, because Bevets was the one saying America is a Christian nation, and he just accused Weaver95 of saying that. I think. Bevets habit of constantly quoting himself is (possibly deliberately) confusing.

Bevets is Weaver's alt, he likes to troll himself

Is this true?


no.
 
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