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(Huffington Post)   The separation of church and state - one of the core tenets of American democracy - makes Rick Santorum "want to throw up"   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Sick, American Democracy, Rick Santorum  
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16567 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Feb 2012 at 8:27 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-26 08:39:57 PM  
Hmmm...Godvernment.....kinda snappy.
 
2012-02-26 08:40:01 PM  
Santorum also on Sunday told Meet The Press host David Gregory that separation of church and state was "not the founders' vision."



Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson

I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.
Thomas Jefferson
Letter to Elbridge Gerry (1799)

and last but by no means least:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
Thomas Jefferson
Letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT. (1 January 1802) This statement is the origin of the often used phrase "separation of Church and State".


Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers himself, coined the phrase 'separation of church and state'. it is demonstrably, quotably, VERIFIABLY the vision of the Founding Fathers that there SHOULD be a wall between religion and government. This cannot be any more clear - Jefferson himself wrote on this subject extensively, and his latters are extremely well documented and commented upon. Santorum is either a profoundly stupid man, or he's an exceptionally poor liar.
 
2012-02-26 08:40:03 PM  
Actually I'd like to see Santorum win the presidency - but not for the conservative crazy vision of Jesusland. Rather I would look forward to the inevitable "American Xtian Purging" that would immediately follow his time in office - finally destroying the heinous concept of social conservatism.

/ Here's to hoping for a 2nd term Obama delivering on some shovel-ready "re-education" camps that the conservatives keep fapping about..
 
2012-02-26 08:40:23 PM  
This is seriously the BEST the GOP has to offer???? Obama's going to wipe the floor with Santorum/Romney. For God sakes, bring back McCain excepy THIS time don't pair him with an idiot hack who spouts conservative talking point after conservative talking point.

It's candidates like this who make me wish the presidential election was "alternative-vote" (aka - automatic-runoff). Then I wouldn't look down at my ballot and think: "These are my two choices? Really?"
 
2012-02-26 08:40:26 PM  

jayhawk88:

...to say that people of faith have no role in the public square?

What a prick.

People of faith absolutely can have a role in the "public square". Far, far greater men than you did just that when they created this country. But they had the intelligence/courage to put their faith aside when making decisions for the state, which is all we would expect of you. But no, you don't have the moral fiber to do so, you're too reliant on the crutch of religion to tell you what is right and wrong. Too scared to face choices or decisions yourself.

Go away.


Came here to say this.
People of faith can have all the say they want. They just can't make their holy book the basis and reason behind enacting or enforcing laws.
Santorum is an incredibly ignorant and intellectually dishonest piece of sh*t.


xl5150: You can deny it all you want and try to be as pedantic as you can possibly get, but the truth is that the US is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.


[Citation needed]
 
2012-02-26 08:41:52 PM  

Weaver95: Santorum also on Sunday told Meet The Press host David Gregory that separation of church and state was "not the founders' vision."

Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson

I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.
Thomas Jefferson
Letter to Elbridge Gerry (1799)

and last but by no means least:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
Thomas Jefferson
Letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT. (1 January 1802) This statement is the origin of the often used phrase "separation of Church and State".


Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers himself, coined the phrase 'separation of church and state'. it is demonstrably, quotably, VERIFIABLY the vision of the Founding Fathers that there SHOULD be a wall between religion and government. This cannot be any more clear - Jefferson himself wrote on this subject extensively, and his latters are extremely well documented and commented upon. Santorum is either a profoundly stupid man, or he's an exceptionally poor liar.


Thomas Jefferson was in France when the Constitution was written, my hair is a bird, his argument is invalid.
 
2012-02-26 08:42:02 PM  

FlashHarry: i'm guessing he probably feels the same way about free speech and a few other american rights. after all, like the other members of the taliban, he "hates us for our freedoms."


I'll bet Santorum also feels sick whenever he sees pagans walking around, not being tied to stakes & set on fire. Insensitive bastards! Can they not see how their blatant non-combustion is making this man ill??
 
2012-02-26 08:42:13 PM  

Bevets: Santorum also on Sunday told Meet The Press host David Gregory that separation of church and state was "not the founders' vision."

The 'Wall of Separation' is sacred to Secular Fundamentalists and invisible in the constitution.


you are wrong.

again:
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
Thomas Jefferson
Letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT. (1 January 1802) This statement is the origin of the often used phrase "separation of Church and State".

These are the words of the Founding Fathers themselves, well documented and well known. you sir, are wrong.
 
2012-02-26 08:42:22 PM  
Is this where bevets posts a bunch of bullet points?
 
2012-02-26 08:42:59 PM  
Has anybody told him that tax exempt status for all churches is voluntary? They can choose to get involved in politics if they accept that they have to pay the same taxes as all of the rest of us.
 
2012-02-26 08:43:16 PM  
Why is it that "conservatives" can't stand it if every last person isn't just like them?

And if everyone magically conformed to their current mental image of what a Real American™ is it would only be a matter of time before they found some other traits or qualities in those people they found objectionable.

They're like Taliban wannabees.

/Talibanabees???
 
2012-02-26 08:43:17 PM  
I always wonder why these super religious people seem to think that their religion is so weak that they must use the government to coerce the American people into following its tenets. Can't you just be happy trying to convince people to follow your religious beliefs of their own free will rather than trying to use the American government to impose those beliefs on people? Don't you think if your omnipotent god exists that he would see through into the true hearts and minds of people to see they were only following your rules as you imposed those rules on people rather than them actually believing and feeling them to be true?

Can your religion not stand up on its own? Do you really need my government to impose it on people?
 
2012-02-26 08:43:28 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: Which unelectable mook will they nominate?

The sociopath who would arrest judges?
The robot who has no firm convictions?
The shiatty dumbass who wants to put God in Government?
The old wingnut?


They're all wonderful. I'm going to love this election season.
 
2012-02-26 08:43:33 PM  

jayhawk88: .you don't have the moral fiber to do so, you're too reliant on the crutch of religion to tell you what is right and wrong. Too scared to face choices or decisions yourself.

Go away.


Please. If Rick Santorum relied on his religion to tell him what was right and wrong he would oppose the death penalty, as his religion instructs him to do. He'd be in favor of path to citizenship, as the leaders of his church also demand. He would have opposed invading Iraq, as his Pope did. He would recognize torture as an intrinsic evil. Etc.

Santorum is a faithful Catholic where Catholicism agrees with his pre-existing political opinions. There is no evidence of Catholic thought ever changing his mind about anything, nor is there any evidence of Santorum ever saying, "Well, emotionally or intellectually I would left to my own devices do A, but due to the teaching of my church I will instead do B."

Santorum is a Catholic when being one gets him votes or provides him a convenient excuse for his politics. The rest of the time he's what Rick Santorum has been since birth: a thug.
 
2012-02-26 08:43:35 PM  
why? why do the republicans make this so easy?
 
2012-02-26 08:43:40 PM  
JRoo: The founders of America were fleeing state-sponsored religious persecution and wanted a nation where all religions were allowed.

Separation of church and state is WHY people in this country have freedom of religion.


People like Rick Santorum are incapable of seeing the reason for this from this point of view. Their entire world view is based on the idea that if someone does not follow their religious beliefs to the exact letter, then they are evil. If you do not allow them to do what-ever they like in the name of their God, you're persecuting them. If you do not allow their religious laws and beliefs to Govern, then you are defeating the view of the founding fathers, and not a true American. Things are completely black and white to these kind of people - there are no situational exceptions to their rules, and there is absolutely no grey area.

These kinds of people never evolved past Kohlberg's First Stage of Moral Development, that is - they think that without the idea of an invisible sky-man holding the Sword of Damocles over their head for the smallest infraction, that society and the social contract which we built America upon would simply fall apart. They truely view anyone who believes differently than them - Atheists, Jews, Muslims - as enemies hellbent on destroying America.
 
2012-02-26 08:43:53 PM  
Ask him if Protestant-based religious laws would be "close enough."
 
2012-02-26 08:44:15 PM  
www.fishink.us
 
2012-02-26 08:44:15 PM  
Americans United for the Separation of Church and State (new window)
If you think people like this are dangerous, sign up. $25 a year, and it's money well spent.
 
2012-02-26 08:44:17 PM  
I'm still waiting for Santorum to announce, "I didn't want to run for president, but unfortunately the Pope can't run for the office himself due to legal technicalities."
 
2012-02-26 08:44:39 PM  

Weaver95: Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers himself, coined the phrase 'separation of church and state'. it is demonstrably, quotably, VERIFIABLY the vision of the Founding Fathers that there SHOULD be a wall between religion and government. This cannot be any more clear - Jefferson himself wrote on this subject extensively, and his latters are extremely well documented and commented upon. Santorum is either a profoundly stupid man, or he's an exceptionally poor liar.


i40.tinypic.com
 
2012-02-26 08:45:28 PM  
Was it Santorum that I heard on this news earlier today call Obama weak for apologizing for the Koran-burning incident? So apologizing for American troops burning the holy book of one of the largest religions in the world is now considered caving to the terrorists? I'm sure the 2 million Americans who adhere to Islam still like hearing that over 10 years after the September 11 attacks. Same for roughly 1/4 of the world's population. Eight to ten years ago, it might've been "cool" to make that equation, but I think many ignorant people have been educated on the matter since then.
 
2012-02-26 08:45:34 PM  

JRoo: The founders of America were fleeing state-sponsored religious persecution and wanted a nation where all religions were allowed.

Separation of church and state is WHY people in this country have freedom of religion.


This.
 
2012-02-26 08:45:46 PM  
"I don't believe in an America where the separation of church and state are absolute"

Well fortunately for him (and apparently to the disappointment of farkers everywhere) America doesn't have an absolute separation of church and state. There are a number of cases that govern when and how government and religion may interact, and not one of them says "They can't."

For example, laws that appear to be religiously motivated are subject to the test outlined in Lemon v. Kurtzman. Laws that appear to discriminate against religious positions are subject to the tests outlined in cases like Employment Division v. Smith and Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah (which also happens to be the best / most difficult case name ever). Just last week a federal district court ruled (new window) that employers are required to exempt employees with conscientious objectors to Plan B contraceptives from some of the laws in the insurance mandate.\

If the separation of church and state were absolute, that would indeed pose quite a problem, because it would almost certainly interfere with the free expression and free exercise rights of religious people.

/Atheist
//Hate Santorum
///But that doesn't mean he's always wrong
 
2012-02-26 08:45:53 PM  
Look, guys, this man is never in a million years going to be president. Only a small fraction of a fraction of the population would vote for him. Why are we giving him the time of day? It can't be just for the lulz, is it?

Someone just take the shovel away from this guy before he hits Australia. It's getting sad now.
 
2012-02-26 08:46:16 PM  
I thought nothing could top the mcain/palin hook up. A part of me thinks reality tv execs are behind this, but I don't care.
 
2012-02-26 08:46:17 PM  
One of Heinlein's first stories was "If This Goes On-", first serialized in 1940, and rewritten for his 1953 book Revolt in 2100.

The story is set in a future theocratic American society, ruled by the latest in a series of "Prophets." The First Prophet was Nehemiah Scudder, a backwoods preacher turned President (elected in 2012).

Just saying.
 
2012-02-26 08:46:47 PM  
I thought that it was the Republicans who were pissing their pants in fear of religious law taking over the US?
 
2012-02-26 08:46:48 PM  
Churches are political entities. Their goal is to have you under THEIR governance, as THEY see fit. That is why we have a separation of church and state. Churches are free to exist and do as they will, to bring people under their influence. They just aren't free to merge with government and FORCE people to do as they say.

There are numerous examples of why this is a good thing. I dare say, if you don't agree with this then you are an enemy of myself and everything that America stands for.
 
2012-02-26 08:46:51 PM  

Dracolich: "I don't believe in an America where the separation of church and state are absolute."

"I don't believe in an America."

"I don't believe."


"I don't."

"I."

"ALL ABOARD.... AH, ha,ha,ha."

"I... I... I."

"Crazy, but that's how it goes."
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-02-26 08:48:08 PM  
dakiniland.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-02-26 08:48:19 PM  

Bevets: Santorum also on Sunday told Meet The Press host David Gregory that separation of church and state was "not the founders' vision."

The 'Wall of Separation' is sacred to Secular Fundamentalists and invisible in the constitution Thomas Jefferson.


FTFY
 
2012-02-26 08:48:28 PM  
Whiny little biatches -- just a few decades ago complaining that the Church of England or the Roman Catholic church (in Texas) wouldn't let you hold office or even have legitimate children without being a member -- now they're all down with it. How are they going to justify the church tax (where you pay the government for the upkeep of churches)?
 
2012-02-26 08:48:43 PM  

Hector Remarkable: A country that puts forth an obvious sicko like this guy as a viable presidential candidate is what makes me want to throw up.


It's a sad testament to how far down the crapper the Republican party has gone that Santorum can even sniff the nomination.
 
2012-02-26 08:48:46 PM  
every time one of my more religious/conservative friends quotes Jefferson about the evils of welfare/public assistance, I quote Jefferson about the seperation of church and state and/or his comments regarding the necesssary evils of corporations and banks.

odd how often those quaint little Jefferson quotes evaporate from their facebook pages when they realize Jefferson said more than just 'get a job ya lazy bums'.
 
2012-02-26 08:48:48 PM  

xl5150: You can deny it all you want and try to be as pedantic as you can possibly get, but the truth is that the US is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.


The Treaty of Tripoli disagrees with you.
 
2012-02-26 08:49:14 PM  

NFA: [dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 452x600]


So Christians are like Mexicans illegally crossing the border?
 
2012-02-26 08:49:38 PM  
 
2012-02-26 08:50:23 PM  

xl5150: You can deny it all you want and try to be as pedantic as you can possibly get, but the truth is that the US is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.


Which is why it's firmly enshrined in our constitution that everyone has to be Christian or GTFO.

Right? What? No?

My fragile innocence is crushed.
 
2012-02-26 08:50:40 PM  
diplomatdc.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-02-26 08:50:54 PM  
"ricksantorummakesmewanttothrowup.com" isn't taken.
 
2012-02-26 08:51:23 PM  

jayhawk88: ...to say that people of faith have no role in the public square?

What a prick.

People of faith absolutely can have a role in the "public square". Far, far greater men than you did just that when they created this country. But they had the intelligence/courage to put their faith aside when making decisions for the state, which is all we would expect of you. But no, you don't have the moral fiber to do so, you're too reliant on the crutch of religion to tell you what is right and wrong. Too scared to face choices or decisions yourself.

Go away.


THIS^

I understand that people's belief motivates their actions including their actions regarding public policy and that is fine. However, what Rick and others like him really want is to enforce their beliefs on me through the force of law. The government that governs least is the government that governs least. I don't need a religious person ordering me to follow their morals. I will quite happily give you the right to not use birth-control, not get abortions and pray until your knees bleed, please be so kind as to recognize that I have every right to do exactly the opposite of you if I see fit.
 
2012-02-26 08:51:33 PM  
As a conservative, I look at the GOP and I'm sick to my farking stomach.

Romney? The "fark you, I'm rich" guy? And he doesn't even try to hide it!

Santorum? What year is this, asshole? It sure as hell isn't 1950. Dude's just openly trolling about women, gays, and religion.

Gingrich? Motherfarker wouldn't know the definition of ethics if someone gave him a dictionary.

Paul? Batshiat crazy.

Really? This is the best and brightest we can come up with? Obama's laughing his ass off.
 
2012-02-26 08:51:54 PM  

xl5150: You can deny it all you want and try to be as pedantic as you can possibly get, but the truth is that the US is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.


you are either very poorly educated or deliberately lying.
 
2012-02-26 08:52:05 PM  

Johnny Swank: God damnit Republicans? Why are you so god damn retarded?

You "moderate" republican sheep can kiss my ass. You sat around with your collective thumbs up your asses for a generation while the biblethumpers took over the GOP and you didn't say a farking peep. Enjoy the ramifications.


"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." - Barry Goldwater, 1994.
 
2012-02-26 08:52:08 PM  
The invasion of religion into the state is easily one of the gravest threats this country has to face. Forget what morals, beliefs, or ethics organized religion might occasionally provide, it has no place in deciding laws and how the country should be run.

The Founders knew this better than anyone, having just come out of a period where radical religious beliefs had led the world down a path of violence and blissful ignorance, helping to destroy countless civilizations and end the lives of millions. Religion is dangerous to the state because it accepts no competing views: Christianity and Islam are some of the most prominent examples of this.

I can only hope that there is enough sanity left in this country to keep someone like Santorum from moving up the totem pole. He's already dangerous enough in the position he currently holds---and it's already horrifying enough that he can spew this sort of nonsense and actually GAIN support by doing so.
 
2012-02-26 08:52:17 PM  

Ed Finnerty: xl5150: You can deny it all you want and try to be as pedantic as you can possibly get, but the truth is that the US is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.

You can deny it all you want and try to be as pedantic as you can possibly get, but the truth is that Christianity is a Pagan religion based on Pagan principles.


Actually, to be more accurate, it's a Pagan religion based on Buddhist principles.
 
2012-02-26 08:52:30 PM  

Weaver95: Santorum also on Sunday told Meet The Press host David Gregory that separation of church and state was "not the founders' vision."

Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson

I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.
Thomas Jefferson
Letter to Elbridge Gerry (1799)

and last but by no means least:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
Thomas Jefferson
Letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT. (1 January 1802) This statement is the origin of the often used phrase "separation of Church and State".


Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers himself, coined the phrase 'separation of church and state'. it is demonstrably, quotably, VERIFIABLY the vision of the Founding Fathers that there SHOULD be a wall between religion and government. This cannot be any more clear - Jefferson himself wrote on this subject extensively, and his latters are extremely well documented and commented upon. Santorum is either a profoundly stupid man, or he's an exceptionally poor liar.


But of course there's a difference between maintaining a separation of church and state and maintaining and absolute separation of church and state. Just as there's a difference between freedom of speech (which you have) and having an absolute right to say whatever you want (which you don't have). The article doesn't tell us what that quote was in response to or what the context was, but I don't see anything objectionable, historically inaccurate, or constitutionally questionable in the selected quotation.

"The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country...to say that people of faith have no role in the public square? You bet that makes me want to throw up."

There's plenty of moronic things to attack Santorum for. This isn't one of them. The fact that so many Farkers are ready to jump on him for such a relatively mild statement does more to show their ignorance of history and the Constitution that it does Santorum's.
 
2012-02-26 08:53:04 PM  

Aar1012: So Rick would be okay if an Islamic group decided to pray towards Mecca at the WTC site? He wouldn't called for the government to step in?


Makes me want to assemble all the Muslims I know to give it a try.
 
2012-02-26 08:53:40 PM  
People who support Mr. Santorum (and supposedly himself as well) don't understand that their voodoo is made up. It's comical to watch them, to be quite honest.
 
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