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(CNN)   Debbie Downer says a new recession seems inevitable   (money.cnn.com) divider line 32
    More: Scary, Debbie Downer, Lakshman Achuthan, personal incomes, Economic Cycle Research Institute, Oil and gas law in the United States, SPX, industrial production, economic indicators  
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14187 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Feb 2012 at 6:32 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-02-25 07:59:31 AM
3 votes:
When is this whole, stupid, pathetic charade finally going to collapse upon itself in a cosmic vortex of corruption?

The entire farking system is contrived by thieves and criminals who conjure wealth out of thin air.

It won't last. It can't last. Rats scrambling around to conjure wealth so they can stuff us all in a contrived little box so that they can systematically take back that imaginary wealth that they created away from us.

I can't wait for the whole thing to detonate, destroying the lives and careers of the evil, greedy, criminals who perpetuate it.

It will be worth living in the fallout to see this come to pass.
2012-02-25 03:11:47 AM
3 votes:
So we took out Glass-Steagall and then had the gall to look surprised when we crashed the economy with the exact same tactics that crashed us before the law was in place... and then didn't put it back.

Those who have studied history are doomed to watch everyone else repeat it.
2012-02-24 11:25:23 PM
3 votes:
Blue shaded areas are recessions.

www.bitlogic.com

Wow - we'll have another one? That's quite a prediction.
2012-02-25 10:51:04 AM
2 votes:

Crosshair: unlikely: So we took out Glass-Steagall and then had the gall to look surprised when we crashed the economy with the exact same tactics that crashed us before the law was in place... and then didn't put it back.

Those who have studied history are doomed to watch everyone else repeat it.

Your total ignorance of economics and what Glass-Steagall did are noted.

Keeping Glass-Steagall in place would not have stopped the crisis. The "repeal" involved only one provision of the Act, the one preventing the same holding company from controlling both a commercial bank and an investment bank. Plenty of stand-alone institutions, both commercial and investment, also failed during the crisis, and that all of them acquired mortgage-backed securities. The repeal was entirely irrelevant to the 08 crisis.

The crisis was caused by central planning of money and interest rates by the federal reserve, a GOVERNMENT granted monopoly. Glass-Steagall had NOTHING to do with that.


Are you kidding me? Go dig up your history books and count how many financial panics there were prior to 1933. I'll give you a hint: it's a number larger than zero. Do the same for financial panics after 1980. Again, it's a number larger than zero. Now, count how many happened between 1933 and 1980. Guess what? That number is zero. The New Deal-era financial regulations worked unbelievably well...at least until they were systematically dismantled because of the misguided belief that the market could handle things better.
2012-02-25 02:26:57 PM
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: Serious Black: Thunderpipes: zeroman987: Anagrammer: "Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man.

"Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded - here and there, now and then - are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people.

"Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

"This is known as 'bad luck.'"
-Robert Heinlein

Translation:

Normal people get angry at a small minority that lies, cheats and steals in order to take more than their fair share work hard and succeed.

Financiers who created and abused derivatives and lobbied Congress to stop all efforts at regulating them are hard workers?

You mean Democrats like Barney Frank that made sure dumbass poor people could get loans anywhere? You mean dumbass poor people buying homes they could not afford? You mean dumbass poor people having 5 kids when they can't afford it? Just remember who tried to stop this crap, Bush did. But nope, no way Democrats would let that happen, because home ownership is a right according to you.


Anyone can apply for a loan, but only a banker and the underwriters have the power to stop it.

These banks have massive departments to manage risk. They are the ones who ultimately sold these "dumbass poor people" the loans. It was their responsibility. It was also their responsibility to be honest when they bundled these loans and labeled them. It was also their responsibility to be honest with the insurance company which insured these loans. They failed on every account and now they are still raking in profits. They wouldn't have made the loans unless they thought they were going to make money off them.

At least they aren't "dumbass poor people with 5 kids"

They are unethical "rich" people blinded by greed and a lust for more profit. It is ok though, you obviously aspire to be one of them. When you are old, you will realize just how much you have been screwed over by them. Enjoy!
2012-02-25 01:48:29 PM
1 votes:

Serious Black: Thunderpipes: zeroman987: Anagrammer: "Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man.

"Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded - here and there, now and then - are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people.

"Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

"This is known as 'bad luck.'"
-Robert Heinlein

Translation:

Normal people get angry at a small minority that lies, cheats and steals in order to take more than their fair share work hard and succeed.

Financiers who created and abused derivatives and lobbied Congress to stop all efforts at regulating them are hard workers?


You mean Democrats like Barney Frank that made sure dumbass poor people could get loans anywhere? You mean dumbass poor people buying homes they could not afford? You mean dumbass poor people having 5 kids when they can't afford it? Just remember who tried to stop this crap, Bush did. But nope, no way Democrats would let that happen, because home ownership is a right according to you.
2012-02-25 01:31:07 PM
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: zeroman987: Anagrammer: "Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man.

"Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded - here and there, now and then - are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people.

"Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

"This is known as 'bad luck.'"
-Robert Heinlein

Translation:

Normal people get angry at a small minority that lies, cheats and steals in order to take more than their fair share work hard and succeed.


Financiers who created and abused derivatives and lobbied Congress to stop all efforts at regulating them are hard workers?
2012-02-25 01:30:22 PM
1 votes:
I can see where Mr. Heinlein, a talented member of the creative class and author of many books about make believe, could confuse his success with membership in some sort of inherently superior elite creative class who are all doing as well. Odd how all of the prophets for the new creative class made their money when their works were still viable products and not P2P files.
2012-02-25 01:28:35 PM
1 votes:

bunner: peterthx: bunner:
Dismantling regulations was the result of Reaganite greedheads sending shills to DC with wheelbarrows full of $$.

Keep telling yourself that.

Congress made the laws. Who controlled Congress during those years?

The same cats as the last thirty years. Lobbyists and the people who pay them.


Bingo. Parties haven't been very important since the late 70's.
2012-02-25 01:25:09 PM
1 votes:

zeroman987: Anagrammer: "Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man.

"Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded - here and there, now and then - are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people.

"Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

"This is known as 'bad luck.'"
-Robert Heinlein

Translation:


Normal people get angry at a small minority that lies, cheats and steals in order to take more than their fair share work hard and succeed.
2012-02-25 01:22:17 PM
1 votes:

Anagrammer: "Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man.

"Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded - here and there, now and then - are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people.

"Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

"This is known as 'bad luck.'"
-Robert Heinlein


Translation:

Normal people get angry at a small minority that lies, cheats and steals in order to take more than their fair share.
2012-02-25 01:18:25 PM
1 votes:

peterthx: bunner:
Dismantling regulations was the result of Reaganite greedheads sending shills to DC with wheelbarrows full of $$.

Keep telling yourself that.

Congress made the laws. Who controlled Congress during those years?


The same cats as the last thirty years. Lobbyists and the people who pay them.
2012-02-25 12:28:05 PM
1 votes:
When your business is about nothing more than taking home more millions than last year, your product, service and ethics are all secondary considerations at best, until you hit that sugar-in-a-tube-of-active-yeast level of pooch screwing and you're selling cellophane wrapped dog crap in a POP box made in Bejing to anybody who'll pay for it at least once. As soon as something becomes ONLY about more money, the thing that say it is becomes the thing it used to be and you are expected to overlook that and press one for interminable hold should your nifty, new doodad turn into a doorstop in a week. When's the last time you did business with a company that answers it's own phone? That's what I thought. Money is the grease. Not the wheel. And people will do some pretty nasty sh*t to get it.
2012-02-25 11:46:09 AM
1 votes:

zeroman987: Don't bother trying to explain it to him. The power of the "free market" is what he believes in. There is no such thing as a good regulation!111oneone


"Free market" means " I can gut this fish before anybody else can even get a taste and that's as it should be because I have the biggest fish knife. Now go catch me some more fish, peon." It doesn't have much incentive for the fishermen. "Just give us the keys to everything and we'll let some of it trickle down." Bwahhh hahahahahaha. Hell we even have rules for killing people (*pop*), but we're not supposed to have rules for being able to earn what keeps them alive?
2012-02-25 10:04:49 AM
1 votes:
People here seem to think that recession is something that is determined by whether they feel they are in one. I know it may come as a shock to some, but "recession" has a specific definition that has an objective means of determination.
2012-02-25 09:29:21 AM
1 votes:
There's people willing to work an honest day's work for a decent wage
There are goods and services to make for people who are willing to pay for them
And yet, those who want to work are thwarted by those soulless wearers of suits and ties, working in their office towers who are making scads of money by simply shuffling paper around making huge profits that they won't invest in job creation because, hey, it's more profitable to keep shuffling the paper around (or bribing politicians).

Never have so many been paid so much for doing work for so little value.
2012-02-25 09:26:17 AM
1 votes:

austin_millbarge: The same free market they are going to fail to see as the real reason gas prices are rising back toward $4 (along with inflation) and start the derp Obama did it nonsense


Quantitative easing is the real reason gas prices are rising even when demand is dropping. Your oil is dollar denominated. The free market is not doing this, it is the Obama administration and Federal Reserve's monetary policy.
2012-02-25 09:22:33 AM
1 votes:

emc2serv: Whenever I see a mention about unemployment claims having gone down I wonder how much of the drop is due to folks that have been looking for work so long that the unemployment allotment they were getting has been used up and they are no longer eligible to receive benefits.

Sort of in that boat myself, just glad I was smart enough to listen to my gramps advice and save as much as I could before I got laid off. Was going to use a chunk of my savings to put half down on a small house until I was given the downsizing news, now I'm getting by on the savings I have while I continue to look for work.


Alot. Technical unemployment is higher today than the number you hear. If you want, look at the percent of employable vs population, no sure what the actual statistic is called. It shows we're about 3 million jobs short of pre- recession. And that's not baby boomers retiring, as there is growth behind them to fill their jobs. No, those are real "lost" jobs.
2012-02-25 08:56:10 AM
1 votes:
Whenever I see a mention about unemployment claims having gone down I wonder how much of the drop is due to folks that have been looking for work so long that the unemployment allotment they were getting has been used up and they are no longer eligible to receive benefits.

Sort of in that boat myself, just glad I was smart enough to listen to my gramps advice and save as much as I could before I got laid off. Was going to use a chunk of my savings to put half down on a small house until I was given the downsizing news, now I'm getting by on the savings I have while I continue to look for work.
2012-02-25 08:54:29 AM
1 votes:
Reading the posts in this thread, two things strike me:

1) how many people don't know what a recession is, as in the economic definition of a recession.

2) how many people want to blame democrats for Everything Bad™ that happens to the US manufacturing base, when reality is the free market has led to this. The same free market they worship like some god. The same free market they are going to fail to see as the real reason gas prices are rising back toward $4 (along with inflation) and start the derp Obama did it nonsense.
2012-02-25 08:32:11 AM
1 votes:

BurnShrike: So... why is free trade good again?


Because the most powerful proponents of it benefit greatly from it at the expense of everyone else.The wealthy and powerful keep buying politicians and pushing policies which benefit the tiny minority at the expense of the majority. Then we pay to build those same politicians and powerful businessmen well-stocked underground cities so they can avoid the negative consequences of these policies while we are unable to do the same. All government policies and all laws are good... for someone. Just usually not for the average guy.
2012-02-25 08:10:35 AM
1 votes:
It never felt like we left the last one.
2012-02-25 08:06:05 AM
1 votes:

untaken_name: Aarontology: The free market determined that importing steel from other nations was cheaper and made more business sense.

Why do you hate the free market?


No, it was the steel fairies that did it. They're more real than the "free market", at least in this country. There's nothing wrong with being able to distinguish between the free market (what we usually call the "black market") and the heavily regulated and controlled market US citizens operate within. I don't hate the free market at all. It provides my drugs. But that doesn't mean I confuse it with the US commercial system. If you think we have a "free market", why not take a look at the UCC sometime?


You realize that Article 2 of Uniform Commercial Code, for the most part, only provides default terms. You can contract out of most of those terms. Article 2 is not really a set of regulations. Article 3 and 9 deal with commercial paper and secured transactions, which need a standardized method of creation and transfer in order to find out who owns the piece of paper and who gets priority in bankruptcy. These aren't regulations - they are just codified ways to keep things straight and enhance business transactions. If we didn't have Articles 3 and 9 (or similar provisions) you (or any business) wouldn't be able to get a loan.

The bottom line is that the state and federal governments are involved in a great deal of regulation of commercial activity in the United States. However, the UCC is less about regulation and more about dispute resolution. In fact, it was designed that way.

Then again, what do I know?
2012-02-25 07:59:28 AM
1 votes:
I'm not worried about a recession this summer unless Israel provokes a war with Iran. Any serious disruption of world oil supplies lasting more than a week or two could be a huge drag on the economy.

That said, I worry a lot about what would happen if Obama loses in November given that both leading republicans have said they'd do anything and everything to stop Iran's nuclear program. Combine a new recession with another trillion dollar war paid for with borrowed money and we'll be at Greek debt levels before the next presidential election.
2012-02-25 07:39:43 AM
1 votes:

Dracolich: All it take is another world war for that to be an astoundingly bad idea


Which is itself a terrible idea. Not a war, obviously, but being so dependent on foreign imports that the only thing that would cause us to change our wars is a world war.

Racing to the bottom in terms of closing plants and laying off workers in favor of cheap imports is dangerous.
2012-02-25 07:30:15 AM
1 votes:
You mean we got out of the previous one? I thought they just jiggered the numbers to make it look that way temporarily.
2012-02-25 07:17:26 AM
1 votes:
That's why I trust my money to Wu-Tang Financial.
2012-02-25 07:00:38 AM
1 votes:
not a recession, we are headed for the Great Depression, Part Two

due to Liberal Democrat policies

Look what they did to Detroit, once the greatest manufacturing city of the world
2012-02-25 06:46:21 AM
1 votes:
It's now obvious that Europe is sliding into a recession. The U.S. is perhaps 6 months behind it.

This being Fark, I guess I should try to come up with a Greece joke now....

But if you look at meta data world wide, it becomes clear that Europe is simply leading the entire world into another recession. To say that the U.S. will alone avoid a global event is just silly.
2012-02-25 12:47:55 AM
1 votes:
We got out of the old one?
2012-02-25 12:30:11 AM
1 votes:
To be honest, if you believe in the economy, you'll believe in any damn thing. Sure it kept you going for awhile, but when you're down and out, is the economy carrying you along the beach leaving only its footprints?
2012-02-24 11:48:25 PM
1 votes:

vygramul: Blue shaded areas are recessions.

www.bitlogic.com

Wow - we'll have another one? That's quite a prediction.

ECRI is one of the more widely respected firms on economic recessions, as it has never been wrong when forecasting that a recession would start, or failed to predict a recession well before it was widely accepted.


And they've been in existence for a whopping two recessions. Go fark yourself, Achuthan.

/Bazinga!
 
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