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(BBC)   An electromagnetic pulse bomb sneak attack that would destroy all electronics is "quite likely." EVERYBODY PA   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 195
    More: Scary, satellite navigation systems, rogue states, Ministry of Defence, MPs  
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9880 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Feb 2012 at 9:51 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-23 11:03:14 AM

PsyLord: crispyone: Mock26: Got an old computer or any other old electronics that you thought about getting rid of? Build a Faraday cage and store them in there. Periodically back up all computer files to the computer in your Faraday cage. Just be sure to ground your cage!

That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?

Great. Then I remove all that electronic junk I saved and plug it into an electronic grid that doesn't work. Even if I have a generator what the hell am I supposed to do with the only working computer in a 500 mile radius? Email someone for help? Play WOW?

The country is in chaos. There's no running water. No electricity. Minimal food. Roving bands of armed thugs looting whatever resources they can. An invading army likely on it's way. But thank God I got my hard drive backed up! At least I won't have to rewrite my resume."

So... this brings up the question about Terminator 3. If the machines nuked the world, how did Skynet survive if it relied on the internet? Assuming most of the world's electronics and electrical grids would go down, the Net would probably god down too. So wouldn't Skynet be nuking itself into oblivion?


The machines probably had some shielded power sources or something like that as they were aware Judgment Day would occur and took survival precautions, going along with canon that the machines were totally logical and without human failings.
 
2012-02-23 11:03:31 AM

KIA: Interesingly, Amazon has a hand cranked cell phone charger (I think by Eaton?) For $14.99. If you can shield your smartphone, all of your more useful apps like compass, flashlight, maybe gps (if satellites werent scrubbed or wereto hardened) might still work even if your local cell towers were down.

/ got mine last week, thinking about getting a couple more


Now if only your network provider would build giant faraday cages over all their radio towers. Besides, who you gonna call, yourself?
 
2012-02-23 11:04:29 AM

Mock26: That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?



You'll need to remove some drywall, and probably chip away some concrete encasement, but your best bet will be grounding it directly to the building steel. It's the only way to be sure.
 
2012-02-23 11:07:05 AM

sporkme: [www.survival-spot.com image 329x500]
fun book


With more holes in its theories than swiss cheese.
 
2012-02-23 11:08:00 AM
Put a rubber mat inside an old ammo can and put your electronics on the rubber mat....ground the ammo can.

I've heard that mylar bags might also work as an impromptu Farraday Cage but you need a rubber mat cause it doesn't work if the electronic devices are touching the Farraday Cage.


Vehicles with points and condensor would still run after an EMP as long as the vehicle has a manual transmission and you can push it and pop the clutch to get it started.


/or so I've heard.
 
2012-02-23 11:08:33 AM

Giltric: kcfarker: BigNumber12: kcfarker: I would love to install an EMP in my vehicle.

Imagine waiting at a stop-light and the imbecile at the front of the line has his nose buried in his phone, two-finger typing a banal response to an otherwise innocuous text message, paying zero attention to his surroundings. Light turns green and we're waiting... we're waiting... we're waiting...

As I turn my ignition off, I trigger the EMP and "bam", his vehicle is as dead as a doornail. I start my vehicle back up and slowly ease around his new paperweight and wave as I proceed thru the now-yellow light. Thoughtfully wishing him luck finding a mechanic who can fix his stupidity.


Except that now your car is dead as well, so you get to spend lots of extra time with your stop-light buddy! Nice work!

As long as your electronic device isn't actually on, the EMP can't interfere with the electromagnetic field generated by the electronic device. Hence the term EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse).

/I'm not a rocket-scientist. And neither are you.

Turning something off does not protect it from EMP.....hence the need for a Farraday Cage and hardened circuitry designed to protect systems from an EMP.


Dammit! Now you've ruined my idea. Guess it's back to reloading the Gatling gun...
 
2012-02-23 11:09:03 AM

ddelorm: sporkme: [www.survival-spot.com image 329x500]
fun book

With more holes in its theories than swiss cheese.


Go on......
 
2012-02-23 11:09:36 AM

sporkme: [www.survival-spot.com image 329x500]
fun book


Fun like "The Road" was fun. Still think a better ending would have been Asheville vs. Black Mtn. war as opposed to mutant ninja biker zombies that always play the antagonist in those genres.
 
2012-02-23 11:10:47 AM

Milos Hattrick: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 640x426]


That is one cool looking skatepark.
 
2012-02-23 11:13:04 AM
Hi-Z semis are the most vulnerable. CMOS and such. Thermionic devices least as they are made of ohmic materials. One can harden any circuit by putting it in a grounded box and putting devices such as Transorbs on the inputs/outputs.
 
2012-02-23 11:13:10 AM
A full nuclear exchange would leave us more like "The Road" than "The Road Warrior".
 
2012-02-23 11:14:57 AM

Jake Havechek: In fact, a strategic nuke strike on a population center or military target always starts with an air burst to knock out power, communications, and to destabilize a civilian population would happen 5 minutes or so before a ground burst


Thanks for bringing that up. I'm going to have a mini panic attack waiting to be vaporized everytime the power randomly goes out at my house now.
 
2012-02-23 11:16:44 AM
The way audiophiles and hams secure their grounding is to drive a copper-clad steel rod four feet into the ground and attaching a wire profoundly thicker than any others around to the third prong. One obtains it from the industrial supply.
 
2012-02-23 11:17:03 AM

bearcats1983: Jake Havechek: In fact, a strategic nuke strike on a population center or military target always starts with an air burst to knock out power, communications, and to destabilize a civilian population would happen 5 minutes or so before a ground burst

Thanks for bringing that up. I'm going to have a mini panic attack waiting to be vaporized everytime the power randomly goes out at my house now.


Nah, just check the streetlights or the neighbor's house.

If all the transformers in your neighborhood suddenly blow out at the same time, then I'd be alarmed.
 
2012-02-23 11:17:19 AM

kcfarker: As long as your electronic device isn't actually on, the EMP can't interfere with the electromagnetic field generated by the electronic device. Hence the term EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse).

/I'm not a rocket-scientist. And neither are you.



Since you have no citation for your Hollywood-fueled opinion, here's mine: Page 13 and Footnote 26 (new window)

"Less likely" and "experts disagree" don't sound like something I'd wager against a bunch of pissed-off motorists and cell phone addicts...

Unless you have a better source than I do. And a Tom Cruise movie doesn't count. That movie was one giant plot hole.
 
2012-02-23 11:19:35 AM
I for one will welcome our new Amish Overlords.

A big solar flare is more likely over a nuke though...even the little ones play hell with grid voltage. Systems we have now are pretty sensitive compared to the old stuff.

If we have a repeat of the solar activity of 1859 which even knocked out telegraph equipment, you can bet you won't be getting any juice for a long while.
 
2012-02-23 11:20:25 AM

Didn't Fark just link to an article that said such a doomsday scenario was actually extremely unlikely?

Oh, wait, here it is: Newt Gingrich fans the fears of electromagnetic death from above (new window).

Richard Lehner, an agency spokesman ... called the potential damage from a nuclear electromagnetic pulse attack "pretty theoretical."

Yousaf Butt, a nuclear physicist at the Union of Concerned Scientists, who last year did a lengthy analysis of EMP for the Space Review, a weekly online journal, said, "If terrorists want to do something serious, they'll use a weapon of mass destruction -- not mass disruption." He said, "They don't want to depend on complicated secondary effects in which the physics is not very clear."
 
2012-02-23 11:20:59 AM

jafiwam: This threat is neither likely, nor practical.

EMP won't do what these chuckleheads are saying it will do.

Any country launching such a thing would be better off with an actual nuke strike, as they would be obliterated shortly afterwards anyway. No sense in pulling punches. There are very very few countries that have the combination of technologies to actually get a warhead in that location in the first place, 95% of them are UK's friends (or friends of the US, and therefore friends of the UK by proxy).

The US knows where all the Paki nukes are, and they'd be nuking their second cousins anyway, since half them dudes already moved to the UK.

Article is a complete fabrication, or, propaganda designed to help allow Isreal and the US attack Iran.

/Old NEWs! Way to go BBC!


Yep guys don't worry. It's all just fear mongering. Not like anything like this has ever happened before unless you count 1989, 1994, and 2003.

Not sure if anyone has ever bothered telling the sun just how impractical this all is.
 
2012-02-23 11:21:19 AM

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: Why? Because as much as I enjoy the Internet, computers, smart phones, microwave ovens, and video games (among other things) I think the world is spinning out of control and we have whole generations of idiots who are so reliant on this electronic junk that they can't do simple things like cook a meal or write a letter. I also think it's stifling my own creativity to have all this crap around.


You know, there have been writings discovered in ancient Egypt that showed that some scholars shared your opinion, though instead of electronics they were talking about written language. The "technology makes people stupid" argument is bullshiat in any age.
 
2012-02-23 11:24:45 AM
Probably the most effective destabilizer of a civilian population there is, besides a disease pandemic.

Take the ALL the humans' power and regular food supply away for 3 days and you get chaos.
 
2012-02-23 11:29:07 AM

Tailgunner Joe: I for one will welcome our new Amish Overlords.



Thank God we haven't yet switched over to laser rifles yet. Good, old-fashioned gunpowder will still keep those Amish in line.
 
2012-02-23 11:31:35 AM

ArcadianRefugee: Didn't Fark just link to an article that said such a doomsday scenario was actually extremely unlikely?

Oh, wait, here it is: Newt Gingrich fans the fears of electromagnetic death from above (new window).

Richard Lehner, an agency spokesman ... called the potential damage from a nuclear electromagnetic pulse attack "pretty theoretical."

Yousaf Butt, a nuclear physicist at the Union of Concerned Scientists, who last year did a lengthy analysis of EMP for the Space Review, a weekly online journal, said, "If terrorists want to do something serious, they'll use a weapon of mass destruction -- not mass disruption." He said, "They don't want to depend on complicated secondary effects in which the physics is not very clear."


Yeah cause not having refrigeration for food and medicines is only a disruption...until lack of food and medicine starts killing people.


I don't think the "expert" thought that one all the way through.

/they only thought flying planes into buildings was theoretical until 9-11.
 
2012-02-23 11:35:37 AM
You also get what is known as "secondary deaths" after a while.

People who take daily meds to live, dialysis patients, diabetics, that sort of thing.
 
2012-02-23 11:37:10 AM

Giltric: ddelorm: sporkme: [www.survival-spot.com image 329x500]
fun book

With more holes in its theories than swiss cheese.

Go on......


I actually enjoyed the book, especially because I live in the general area and am familiar with all the locations he described.

However, it was very fictionalized, and made a lot of assumptions for the sake of drama.

He never mentioned farm equipment, which would most likely survive an EMP just fine, considering how low tech they are. The main character's old Mustang works, but nobody's tractor does?

They bury the bodies on the golf course? The flat, well fertilized, easy to till golf course? The propane powered crematorium at the funeral home is so high tech it's off line? No one knows how to build a funeral pyre?

Nothing could be refrigerated? Living next to a river? In the mountains? That water is cold. You could use any car still working as an emergency generator to power a small fridge for medicine. Hell, the welding shop has tanks of CO2, I can make dry ice with that and a cotton bag.

The assumption that people would be too stupid to fix stuff bugged me. People in third world countries manage to rig up stuff all the time that are just amazing, and often with no training in engineering, electricity, or plumbing.

There was a lot of that kind of overly-dire drama. People are very creative.

On the other hand, he did make some excellent points and got me thinking. Like how valuable a .22 rifle and ammo would be, or a decent archery set, and proper fishing equipment. Also made me think about how dependent the sick are on electricity.

It just proved to me that no one person can think of everything, and that's why we have a society. The author was one man, thinking for all the characters, and he missed a lot of ideas. Put a large group of people together, and you would be amazed what we can do.
 
2012-02-23 11:37:38 AM

Voiceofreason01: crispyone: How are you supposed to remove the offending country from the map when none of your missiles work?

A lot of Cold War tech is hardened; besides the bulk of the USA's and UK's strategic nuclear arsenals are hiding on submarines far away from this hypothetical detonation.


Good points. How are launch codes gonna be communicated to the subs though? I guess it's fun to argue all the military what-if scenarios but I think the thread got off topic with the whole nuclear detonation arguement. Most likely any event like this will be due to solar flares.
 
2012-02-23 11:39:51 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: If EMP bombs were really that easy to do, then why hasn't anyone done it by now?


July 9, 1962 (new window).

October 22, 1962 (new window).
 
2012-02-23 11:40:50 AM

Giltric: Yeah cause not having refrigeration for food and medicines is only a disruption...until lack of food and medicine starts killing people.


I don't think the "expert" thought that one all the way through.


The point is since the effects are highly variable -- since it depends on how high the detonation is and relies on the affected area to be unable to get things going again -- it would be much more likely that any terrorist with a nuke would try to use it the old-fashioned way and not try to be fancy with it. Complicated plans risk failure more than simple ones.

/they only thought flying planes into buildings was theoretical until 9-11.

Since we've had planes hit skyscrapers before, no, they did not think this.
 
2012-02-23 11:41:33 AM

crispyone: Voiceofreason01: crispyone: How are you supposed to remove the offending country from the map when none of your missiles work?

A lot of Cold War tech is hardened; besides the bulk of the USA's and UK's strategic nuclear arsenals are hiding on submarines far away from this hypothetical detonation.

Good points. How are launch codes gonna be communicated to the subs though? I guess it's fun to argue all the military what-if scenarios but I think the thread got off topic with the whole nuclear detonation arguement. Most likely any event like this will be due to solar flares.


They already have their codes, there is a series of protocols that allow subs to launch if they are met, like lack of communication with Naval command, no satellite reception, that sort of thing. Modern subs aren't always incommunicado, they often poke their radio gear out of the water if there is no obvious danger to them.
 
2012-02-23 11:43:12 AM

crispyone: Mock26: Got an old computer or any other old electronics that you thought about getting rid of? Build a Faraday cage and store them in there. Periodically back up all computer files to the computer in your Faraday cage. Just be sure to ground your cage!

That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?

Great. Then I remove all that electronic junk I saved and plug it into an electronic grid that doesn't work. Even if I have a generator what the hell am I supposed to do with the only working computer in a 500 mile radius? Email someone for help? Play WOW?

The country is in chaos. There's no running water. No electricity. Minimal food. Roving bands of armed thugs looting whatever resources they can. An invading army likely on it's way. But thank God I got my hard drive backed up! At least I won't have to rewrite my resume."


You are right. I forgot that computers can only be used for things like writing resumes! I forgot that if an EMP blast disrupted the electrical grid that it would never get fixed and the entire country would devolve into chaos and never recover. Clearly you are a genius of unsurpassed magnitude who can see the only possible outcome of an EMP blast. I have to say that I am also impressed that you were able to see so clearly that the only type of EMP blast possible would be one that would affect the entire country! It was stupid of me to think that an EMP blast could occur locally. Thank you, Mr. Genius, for setting me right.
 
2012-02-23 11:49:25 AM
i149.photobucket.com
Hey, kids - who wants to watch another Our Gang 35mm movie?

Dad, I'm not sure I want to live in a world without internet porn.
 
2012-02-23 11:50:31 AM
From Wikipedia (yeah, yeah, I know...)

"Starfish Prime
Main article: Starfish Prime
In July 1962, a 1.44 megaton (6.0 PJ) United States nuclear test in space, 400 kilometres (250 mi) above the mid-Pacific Ocean, called the Starfish Prime test, demonstrated to nuclear scientists that the magnitude and effects of a high altitude nuclear explosion were much larger than had been previously calculated. Starfish Prime also made those effects known to the public by causing electrical damage in Hawaii, about 1,445 kilometres (898 mi) away from the detonation point, knocking out about 300 streetlights, setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link.[7]

Starfish Prime was the first successful test in the series of United States high-altitude nuclear tests in 1962 known as Operation Fishbowl. The subsequent Operation Fishbowl tests gathered more data on the high-altitude EMP phenomenon.
The Bluegill Triple Prime and Kingfish high-altitude nuclear tests of October and November 1962 in Operation Fishbowl finally provided electromagnetic pulse data that was clear enough to enable physicists to accurately identify the physical mechanisms that were producing the electromagnetic pulses.[8]

The EMP damage of the Starfish Prime test was quickly repaired because of the ruggedness (compared to today)[9] of the electrical and electronic infrastructure of Hawaii in 1962.

The relatively small magnitude of the Starfish Prime EMP in Hawaii (about 5600 volts/metre) and the relatively small amount of damage done (for example, only 1 to 3 percent of streetlights extinguished)[10] led some scientists to believe, in the early days of EMP research, that the problem might not be as significant as was later realized. Newer calculations[9] showed that if the Starfish Prime warhead had been detonated over the northern continental United States, the magnitude of the EMP would have been much larger (22 to 30 kilovolts/metre) because of the greater strength of the Earth's magnetic field over the United States, as well as the different orientation of the Earth's magnetic field at high latitudes. These new calculations, combined with the accelerating reliance on EMP-sensitive microelectronics, heightened awareness that the EMP threat could be a very significant problem."

For more fun, read about EMP on the FAS site...Link
 
2012-02-23 11:51:35 AM

crispyone: Good points. How are launch codes gonna be communicated to the subs though? I guess it's fun to argue all the military what-if scenarios but I think the thread got off topic with the whole nuclear detonation arguement. Most likely any event like this will be due to solar flares.


launch codes are onboard, they'd be waiting for launch orders. But given the almost comical(and frightening) lengths the USA and Soviet Union went to in an effort to ensure the credibility of their nuclear deterent during the Cold War, I would bet that methods and procedures exist to make sure the chain of command stays intact as much as possible even in the event of a cataclysmic attack. There was a book a couple years ago about the UK's strategic submarine fleet that said that every sub carried a sealed letter from the Prime Minister with "final orders" detailing what to do if the UK were destroyed in a nuclear attack.

/I agree a solar flare is much more likely but also probably much less catastrophic
//I was kinda hoping the merits of technology topic would take off more than it did instead of being derailed by faraday cages and nuclear attacks
 
2012-02-23 11:52:07 AM
Should I be researching steampunk techniques?
 
2012-02-23 11:52:40 AM

Jake Havechek: crispyone: Voiceofreason01: crispyone: How are you supposed to remove the offending country from the map when none of your missiles work?

A lot of Cold War tech is hardened; besides the bulk of the USA's and UK's strategic nuclear arsenals are hiding on submarines far away from this hypothetical detonation.

Good points. How are launch codes gonna be communicated to the subs though? I guess it's fun to argue all the military what-if scenarios but I think the thread got off topic with the whole nuclear detonation arguement. Most likely any event like this will be due to solar flares.

They already have their codes, there is a series of protocols that allow subs to launch if they are met, like lack of communication with Naval command, no satellite reception, that sort of thing. Modern subs aren't always incommunicado, they often poke their radio gear out of the water if there is no obvious danger to them.


Well this is even more scary than the idea of EMPs. So our subs already have targets to attack in the case of a loss of communications? SO seriously, the subs would have no idea why communications were lost or who if anybody caused that loss of communication...but they'd still just say, "Ok Russia, this one's for you, and here's yours China!!!"

So solar flares disrupt communications and our subs pregprogrammed respond is to just start blowing chit up????
 
2012-02-23 11:52:43 AM

Ranger Joe: Starfish Prime


Suckiest. Transformer. Ever.
 
2012-02-23 11:54:11 AM

crispyone: Good points. How are launch codes gonna be communicated to the subs though?



You can rest assured that the landside transmission equipment is hardened to hell.
 
2012-02-23 11:55:49 AM
Well, at least it will get those damn kids off the couch and away from their video games.
 
2012-02-23 11:58:58 AM

Mock26: crispyone: Mock26: Got an old computer or any other old electronics that you thought about getting rid of? Build a Faraday cage and store them in there. Periodically back up all computer files to the computer in your Faraday cage. Just be sure to ground your cage!

That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?

Great. Then I remove all that electronic junk I saved and plug it into an electronic grid that doesn't work. Even if I have a generator what the hell am I supposed to do with the only working computer in a 500 mile radius? Email someone for help? Play WOW?

The country is in chaos. There's no running water. No electricity. Minimal food. Roving bands of armed thugs looting whatever resources they can. An invading army likely on it's way. But thank God I got my hard drive backed up! At least I won't have to rewrite my resume."

You are right. I forgot that computers can only be used for things like writing resumes! I forgot that if an EMP blast disrupted the electrical grid that it would never get fixed and the entire country would devolve into chaos and never recover. Clearly you are a genius of unsurpassed magnitude who can see the only possible outcome of an EMP blast. I have to say that I am also impressed that you were able to see so clearly that the only type of EMP blast possible would be one that would affect the entire country! It was stupid of me to think that an EMP blast could occur locally. Thank you, Mr. Genius, for setting me right.


Thin skinned are we? So you got that faraday cage built yet?
 
2012-02-23 11:59:48 AM

crispyone:
So solar flares disrupt communications and our subs pregprogrammed respond is to just start blowing chit up????


No, no, no, they have these really long checklists they have to get through, albeit quickly . You don't just turn a key and hit a button.
 
2012-02-23 12:01:56 PM
Quick question for those of us without faraday cages:

Does an EMP permanently destroy effected electronics or simply turn them off/temporarily disable them?

I get that it probably doesn't make a difference to a satellite. But would my iPad be permanently damaged? Never been fully satisfied with this distinction.
 
2012-02-23 12:02:23 PM

Jake Havechek: crispyone:
So solar flares disrupt communications and our subs pregprogrammed respond is to just start blowing chit up????

No, no, no, they have these really long checklists they have to get through, albeit quickly . You don't just turn a key and hit a button.


Apparently nobody has seen Crimson Tide.
 
2012-02-23 12:08:14 PM

DuPuma: Does an EMP permanently destroy effected electronics or simply turn them off/temporarily disable them?



This. Hollywood has done the public a terrible disservice in the way they've portrayed EMP. An attack with the radius of the one in Ocean's 11 would have shut everything off for good (not the convenient '30-second-window' plot device) and would have come with a pretty significant death toll IRL.
 
2012-02-23 12:12:44 PM

DuPuma: Quick question for those of us without faraday cages:

Does an EMP permanently destroy effected electronics or simply turn them off/temporarily disable them?

I get that it probably doesn't make a difference to a satellite. But would my iPad be permanently damaged? Never been fully satisfied with this distinction.


It burns them out. Never work again. Bricked. Never ever bloody anything ever. dead, kaput. gone to join the choir invisibule. pushing up the daisies.

They will be ex-electronics. Even if they are turned off.

I hope there is not too much abiguity there for you.
 
2012-02-23 12:13:25 PM
If you want a fun read, go to http://www.empcommission.org/ (new window) - It's the official US Congressional Report created by the 2006 National Defense Authorization Act.
www.shtfblog.com
 
2012-02-23 12:14:50 PM

jafiwam: Article is a complete fabrication, or, propaganda designed to help allow Isreal and the US attack Iran.


JEWISH MEDIA!!! *shakes fist*
 
2012-02-23 12:17:01 PM
I think we communicate with our boomers when they are under water with about a 200bit/sec bandwidth using ELF. Do not ask me how I know this.
 
2012-02-23 12:18:22 PM

MrSteve007: If you want a fun read, go to http://www.empcommission.org/ (new window) - It's the official US Congressional Report created by the 2006 National Defense Authorization Act.


Yeah that's the biggest threat from rogue states with nukes. Not that they'd ch"vs bomb a few cities, but rather just fark up an entire country and lead to the majority of the population dying with in a year.
 
2012-02-23 12:21:32 PM
*wanders off to find old novels about this with mentions of things the authors researched*
 
2012-02-23 12:24:08 PM

BigNumber12: crispyone: Good points. How are launch codes gonna be communicated to the subs though?


You can rest assured that the landside transmission equipment is hardened to hell.


SO the cables extend all the way to the subs? JK....But wouldn't communication satellites be inoperable?
 
2012-02-23 12:30:07 PM

BattleFrenchie28: How long would it take to get electronics back up/replaced if there was a massive EMP?


We have a friend who had a transformer explode outside her house and fry everything electronic, including the wiring, in the house. The house had to be practically torn down to be rewired and took about 2 years to fix (delay was due more to the insurance company dicking around with her contractor).

Now, I imagine that it would be full speed ahead on a national level, and more people would be trained in building and wiring, but there would be one heck of a die off first. There was a reason the world had only a 1 billion or so people before modern technology and it wasn't all due to advances in medicine.
 
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