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(BBC)   An electromagnetic pulse bomb sneak attack that would destroy all electronics is "quite likely." EVERYBODY PA   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 195
    More: Scary, satellite navigation systems, rogue states, Ministry of Defence, MPs  
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9885 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Feb 2012 at 9:51 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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KIA
2012-02-23 10:26:31 AM

Mock26: Got an old computer or any other old electronics that you thought about getting rid of? Build a Faraday cage and store them in there. Periodically back up all computer files to the computer in your Faraday cage. Just be sure to ground your cage!

That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?


The traditional means of grounding to an iron water pipe is probably not available in a pvc age.....
 
2012-02-23 10:26:58 AM

Civil Discourse: I could be missing something, but wouldn't a state or anyone else with the technology to launch a nuclear weapon into space also be at risk from such an attack?


Ummmm............Yes. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm sure none of us would have come to that conclusion without your help.
 
2012-02-23 10:28:02 AM

amindtat: kcfarker: /he's just lucky my forward-mounted Gatling guns ran out of ammo at the previous intersection.

[cache.gawkerassets.com image 500x517]


Damn you amindat! Now I have the theme music in my head.

"Peter Gunn" via a 64K synthesizer on my c64...

*dododo-Da-doDah-doDah! dododo-Da-doDah-doDah! bweeeeeeee--ooo! Bah-weeeeeeeeeeee-DOO-DOO!*
 
2012-02-23 10:28:17 AM
Hell, I'm prepared. I still have a rotary-dial phone and an old tube radio.
While you schmucks are all panicking, I'll be ordering a pizza pie and listening to Amos & Andy!
 
2012-02-23 10:28:21 AM
If they coulda done it with less hi tech crap they would have by now.

I'm not worried
 
2012-02-23 10:29:07 AM
What's the point of keeping your phone or computer in a cage if there is no network to connect to?
 
2012-02-23 10:29:50 AM

crispyone: I know we've all done this


No. That's just you.

Jake Havechek: The missile defense program is a waste of time and military resources.


Yeah, which is why I wish he HAD cancelled it. What happened was they cancelled the full retard program in Poland and Czech Republic, and replaced it with a partial retard theater missile defense thing to protect against Iran's launches. It's basically all bargaining chip and uncertainty politics anyway, has little to do with actual effectiveness as a countermeasure.
 
2012-02-23 10:30:09 AM

Ecobuckeye: What's the point of keeping your phone or computer in a cage if there is no network to connect to?


With all that extra time, you need some pron to spank to.
 
2012-02-23 10:30:11 AM

Leeds: I'm not the tinfoil type, but let's explore what would be needed to preserve your electronics at home.

I've got a closet full of computers that I don't use and drawers full of out of date routers, cell phones both dumb and "smart" and these things are basically of no use to me today.

But if an EMP destroyed all of the electronics in my state, suddenly having old routers and computers around would be a great thing, even if the technology is 5 years old.

So just how much lead would be required to make a lead-lined electronics storage safe/closet? An inch of lead? A foot of lead? Lead costs about a dollar per pound so it's not cheap (a 2 inch lead ball would weigh 1.7lbs).

Thoughts?


You don't need lead. Just a big mircowave oven. A box made out of a couple of sheets of sheet metal. The inner one perforated.
 
2012-02-23 10:30:42 AM
This threat is neither likely, nor practical.

EMP won't do what these chuckleheads are saying it will do.

Any country launching such a thing would be better off with an actual nuke strike, as they would be obliterated shortly afterwards anyway. No sense in pulling punches. There are very very few countries that have the combination of technologies to actually get a warhead in that location in the first place, 95% of them are UK's friends (or friends of the US, and therefore friends of the UK by proxy).

The US knows where all the Paki nukes are, and they'd be nuking their second cousins anyway, since half them dudes already moved to the UK.

Article is a complete fabrication, or, propaganda designed to help allow Isreal and the US attack Iran.

/Old NEWs! Way to go BBC!
 
2012-02-23 10:31:27 AM

PsyLord: Ecobuckeye: What's the point of keeping your phone or computer in a cage if there is no network to connect to?

With all that extra time, you need some pron to spank to.


Well I guess I'd better get busy right-clicking.
 
2012-02-23 10:31:39 AM
My cell phone uses vacuum tubes, so I'm ok.
 
2012-02-23 10:31:43 AM

KIA: Mock26: Got an old computer or any other old electronics that you thought about getting rid of? Build a Faraday cage and store them in there. Periodically back up all computer files to the computer in your Faraday cage. Just be sure to ground your cage!

That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?

The traditional means of grounding to an iron water pipe is probably not available in a pvc age.....


you know those electrical sockets with three prongs? The big one on the bottom goes to ground.
 
KIA
2012-02-23 10:32:43 AM
Interesingly, Amazon has a hand cranked cell phone charger (I think by Eaton?) For $14.99. If you can shield your smartphone, all of your more useful apps like compass, flashlight, maybe gps (if satellites werent scrubbed or wereto hardened) might still work even if your local cell towers were down.

/ got mine last week, thinking about getting a couple more
 
2012-02-23 10:34:38 AM
I remember when Reagan claimed that ballistic missiles could be recalled and that you could still use your credit card after a nuclear war.
 
2012-02-23 10:34:48 AM
www.24spoilers.com
can handle it

/hot like an EMP detonation
 
2012-02-23 10:35:17 AM
Sure guys, Iran is going to blow up space.
 
2012-02-23 10:35:42 AM

kcfarker: I would love to install an EMP in my vehicle.

Imagine waiting at a stop-light and the imbecile at the front of the line has his nose buried in his phone, two-finger typing a banal response to an otherwise innocuous text message, paying zero attention to his surroundings. Light turns green and we're waiting... we're waiting... we're waiting...

As I turn my ignition off, I trigger the EMP and "bam", his vehicle is as dead as a doornail. I start my vehicle back up and slowly ease around his new paperweight and wave as I proceed thru the now-yellow light. Thoughtfully wishing him luck finding a mechanic who can fix his stupidity.



Except that now your car is dead as well, so you get to spend lots of extra time with your stop-light buddy! Nice work!
 
2012-02-23 10:36:48 AM
I'm a gadget person. I even do reviews for electronics (and other things) as a side-job (I'm compensated, but not on payroll). I have lots of electronic toys, many of which I use constantly throughout the day. Heck, I'm using five of them right now!

And you know what? I would still love it if the whole world were EMPed and every electronic device on the planet ceased to function for 100 years.

Why? Because as much as I enjoy the Internet, computers, smart phones, microwave ovens, and video games (among other things) I think the world is spinning out of control and we have whole generations of idiots who are so reliant on this electronic junk that they can't do simple things like cook a meal or write a letter. I also think it's stifling my own creativity to have all this crap around.

On top of that, as an artist and musician, I believe the existence of electronic gadgets makes it possible for people without a lick of talent to mass-produce their own half-assed artwork. Face it: We wouldn't have Kanye West, Ke$ha, or Britney Spears foisted on us (or competing with us) if they had to rely on acoustic instruments and a complete lack of AutoTune.

Even with only 50 years of spoiled electronics, I think we'd get back to a point where people produce real art, real music, and perform feats of engineering that don't rely on computers or robots. I think it would ultimately be a positive change; We'd lose weight because we'd have to actually work. We'd get more jobs for everyone because there wouldn't be computers or robots doing the work, and outsourcing would be a thing of the past due to the lack of telecommunications.

So I say: Fire up Goldeneye. Why not? What have we got to lose except a lot of junk that is turning us into unskilled, untalented slugs, anyway?

I know. Lots of people would die. That's a good reason not to do it. Still, I can't help but think Snake Plissken had it right when he punched in the World Code:

"Welcome to the human race." indeed.
 
2012-02-23 10:37:56 AM

cgraves67: If a rogue state wants to knock out the UK's power grid, the nuke has to go off over Northern Europe right? I'm not sure that many rogue states have the capacity to send a ballistic missile that far. Iran could do it to Isreal, NK could do it to SK or Japan. Argentina could do it to the Falklands, but I can't see any regional threats to Britain.


Who says it has to be a ballistic missile? Couldn't China just launch a "Weather Satellite" with a small nuclear bomb attached, wait till it's over desired country, than detonate it? At that point they could launch ballistic missiles and you'd never see them coming or even be able to respond, they could launch an invasion that would be hard to defend against when all your electronics are fried, or they could just wait until society collapses in chaos.

Heck, just attach it to an actual weather ballon then launch it from a ship at sea with the right prevailing wind conditions.
 
2012-02-23 10:38:07 AM

spicorama: No sopranos references after this many comments? I'



It was only the 6th post in, easy to miss.
 
2012-02-23 10:39:20 AM

KIA: Mock26: Got an old computer or any other old electronics that you thought about getting rid of? Build a Faraday cage and store them in there. Periodically back up all computer files to the computer in your Faraday cage. Just be sure to ground your cage!

That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?

The traditional means of grounding to an iron water pipe is probably not available in a pvc age.....


I am not an electrician, but couldn't you just attach it to the ground port on a traditional outlet (if your outlet can take a three prong plug)?
 
2012-02-23 10:41:45 AM

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: I really wonder what the response would be if somebody (I'm looking at you Iran) were to REALLY set off a nuke (in space or not).

Would we all just try to regroup, and then determine what to do about it...or would we just immediately remove the offending country from the map?

I'd lean toward the latter.


Ummm....You're missing the point. How are you supposed to remove the offending country from the map when none of your missiles work?
 
2012-02-23 10:42:04 AM

badhatharry: Leeds: I'm not the tinfoil type, but let's explore what would be needed to preserve your electronics at home.

I've got a closet full of computers that I don't use and drawers full of out of date routers, cell phones both dumb and "smart" and these things are basically of no use to me today.

But if an EMP destroyed all of the electronics in my state, suddenly having old routers and computers around would be a great thing, even if the technology is 5 years old.

So just how much lead would be required to make a lead-lined electronics storage safe/closet? An inch of lead? A foot of lead? Lead costs about a dollar per pound so it's not cheap (a 2 inch lead ball would weigh 1.7lbs).

Thoughts?

You don't need lead. Just a big mircowave oven. A box made out of a couple of sheets of sheet metal. The inner one perforated.


So if a simple faraday cage is all that's required, why all the panic?

Just so long as the "gubment" has some backup grid management devices somewhere in a 20cent faraday-cage bag, we'll be back up and running in a matter of weeks. What's the big deal???
 
2012-02-23 10:42:38 AM

crispyone: Civil Discourse: I could be missing something, but wouldn't a state or anyone else with the technology to launch a nuclear weapon into space also be at risk from such an attack?

Ummmm............Yes. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm sure none of us would have come to that conclusion without your help.


You'll have to forgive me, I do most of my lurking on the politics tab.


/was also concerned that I was missing something
 
2012-02-23 10:42:50 AM

Burr: KIA: Mock26: Got an old computer or any other old electronics that you thought about getting rid of? Build a Faraday cage and store them in there. Periodically back up all computer files to the computer in your Faraday cage. Just be sure to ground your cage!

That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?

The traditional means of grounding to an iron water pipe is probably not available in a pvc age.....

I am not an electrician, but couldn't you just attach it to the ground port on a traditional outlet (if your outlet can take a three prong plug)?



That or a copper cold water feed.
 
2012-02-23 10:43:20 AM
Everybody Pang Chung tonight?

/that doesn't sound right
 
2012-02-23 10:43:59 AM

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: I'm a gadget person. I even do reviews for electronics (and other things) as a side-job (I'm compensated, but not on payroll). I have lots of electronic toys, many of which I use constantly throughout the day. Heck, I'm using five of them right now!

And you know what? I would still love it if the whole world were EMPed and every electronic device on the planet ceased to function for 100 years.

Why? Because as much as I enjoy the Internet, computers, smart phones, microwave ovens, and video games (among other things) I think the world is spinning out of control and we have whole generations of idiots who are so reliant on this electronic junk that they can't do simple things like cook a meal or write a letter. I also think it's stifling my own creativity to have all this crap around.

On top of that, as an artist and musician, I believe the existence of electronic gadgets makes it possible for people without a lick of talent to mass-produce their own half-assed artwork. Face it: We wouldn't have Kanye West, Ke$ha, or Britney Spears foisted on us (or competing with us) if they had to rely on acoustic instruments and a complete lack of AutoTune.

Even with only 50 years of spoiled electronics, I think we'd get back to a point where people produce real art, real music, and perform feats of engineering that don't rely on computers or robots. I think it would ultimately be a positive change; We'd lose weight because we'd have to actually work. We'd get more jobs for everyone because there wouldn't be computers or robots doing the work, and outsourcing would be a thing of the past due to the lack of telecommunications.

So I say: Fire up Goldeneye. Why not? What have we got to lose except a lot of junk that is turning us into unskilled, untalented slugs, anyway?

I know. Lots of people would die. That's a good reason not to do it. Still, I can't help but think Snake Plissken had it right when he punched in the World Code:

"Welcome to the human race." indeed.


I didn't think about that. We would have a lot more live music options. People would have to actually gather together to listen music.
 
2012-02-23 10:44:01 AM

Burr: KIA: Mock26: Got an old computer or any other old electronics that you thought about getting rid of? Build a Faraday cage and store them in there. Periodically back up all computer files to the computer in your Faraday cage. Just be sure to ground your cage!

That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?

The traditional means of grounding to an iron water pipe is probably not available in a pvc age.....

I am not an electrician, but couldn't you just attach it to the ground port on a traditional outlet (if your outlet can take a three prong plug)?


It doesn't need to be grounded. It can build up a charge on the outside which would shock the hell out of you if you touched it, but that just means that you want to bleed the charge off of it after it's done it's job. You don't need to have it permanently grounded...
 
2012-02-23 10:44:03 AM

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: IEven with only 50 years of spoiled electronics


How long would it take to get electronics back up/replaced if there was a massive EMP?

/I mean it is not like the knowledge to build the things would go anywhere
//Meh, this pathetic mud-ball's doomed anyway
 
2012-02-23 10:45:30 AM

BigNumber12: kcfarker: I would love to install an EMP in my vehicle.

Imagine waiting at a stop-light and the imbecile at the front of the line has his nose buried in his phone, two-finger typing a banal response to an otherwise innocuous text message, paying zero attention to his surroundings. Light turns green and we're waiting... we're waiting... we're waiting...

As I turn my ignition off, I trigger the EMP and "bam", his vehicle is as dead as a doornail. I start my vehicle back up and slowly ease around his new paperweight and wave as I proceed thru the now-yellow light. Thoughtfully wishing him luck finding a mechanic who can fix his stupidity.


Except that now your car is dead as well, so you get to spend lots of extra time with your stop-light buddy! Nice work!


As long as your electronic device isn't actually on, the EMP can't interfere with the electromagnetic field generated by the electronic device. Hence the term EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse).

/I'm not a rocket-scientist. And neither are you.
 
2012-02-23 10:45:32 AM

jafiwam: This threat is neither likely, nor practical.

EMP won't do what these chuckleheads are saying it will do.

Any country launching such a thing would be better off with an actual nuke strike, as they would be obliterated shortly afterwards anyway. No sense in pulling punches. There are very very few countries that have the combination of technologies to actually get a warhead in that location in the first place, 95% of them are UK's friends (or friends of the US, and therefore friends of the UK by proxy).

The US knows where all the Paki nukes are, and they'd be nuking their second cousins anyway, since half them dudes already moved to the UK.

Article is a complete fabrication, or, propaganda designed to help allow Isreal and the US attack Iran.

/Old NEWs! Way to go BBC!


Do you have citations for that? Normally, I don't bother to call people out, but I've read a lot of material talking about this, so I'm curious if you have counter-points to that. I definitely have no expertise in the related fields (physics, etc). I do know both the American and Soviet military put a lot of effort into shielding their equipment and bases (from what I hear, the Soviets way more than the US) from the EMP effects during a nuclear exchange.

A geomagnetic storm in 1989 managed to scramble communications for a period of time and knocked out the Quebec power grid.Link (new window)

Any scientific Farkers want to chime in on this? Could an EMP take down everything?
 
2012-02-23 10:46:25 AM
wilderdom.com

Future Fark party?
 
2012-02-23 10:47:10 AM

Mock26: Got an old computer or any other old electronics that you thought about getting rid of? Build a Faraday cage and store them in there. Periodically back up all computer files to the computer in your Faraday cage. Just be sure to ground your cage!

That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?


Cold water pipe clamp... A plug into the ground of the wall socket.

Latter les likely to get you in troible with land lord
 
2012-02-23 10:48:13 AM
Shields can be defeated by just upping the megatons which is easier than more shielding.
 
2012-02-23 10:49:32 AM

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: On top of that, as an artist and musician, I believe the existence of electronic gadgets makes it possible for people without a lick of talent to mass-produce their own half-assed artwork. Face it: We wouldn't have Kanye West, Ke$ha, or Britney Spears foisted on us (or competing with us) if they had to rely on acoustic instruments and a complete lack of AutoTune.


For every Kanye West there are 100 small independent artists, writers, and musicians that could never publish their work in the traditional ways either because of cost or censorship or not having been "discovered" or even because they're creating something new that the companies that own the presses don't see as marketable. And the internet is what makes that possible.

/sure a lot of it is crap but there's a lot of really good stuff out there too.
//could you see something like xkcd ever being published if Randall had to sell the idea to a publishing company?
 
2012-02-23 10:50:26 AM

BigNumber12: kcfarker: I would love to install an EMP in my vehicle.

Imagine waiting at a stop-light and the imbecile at the front of the line has his nose buried in his phone, two-finger typing a banal response to an otherwise innocuous text message, paying zero attention to his surroundings. Light turns green and we're waiting... we're waiting... we're waiting...

As I turn my ignition off, I trigger the EMP and "bam", his vehicle is as dead as a doornail. I start my vehicle back up and slowly ease around his new paperweight and wave as I proceed thru the now-yellow light. Thoughtfully wishing him luck finding a mechanic who can fix his stupidity.


Except that now your car is dead as well, so you get to spend lots of extra time with your stop-light buddy! Nice work!


www.4wdonline.com
"Ok Deak, let's go... what do you mean it won't start?"
 
2012-02-23 10:51:03 AM

Leeds: I'm not the tinfoil type, but let's explore what would be needed to preserve your electronics at home.

I've got a closet full of computers that I don't use and drawers full of out of date routers, cell phones both dumb and "smart" and these things are basically of no use to me today.

But if an EMP destroyed all of the electronics in my state, suddenly having old routers and computers around would be a great thing, even if the technology is 5 years old.

So just how much lead would be required to make a lead-lined electronics storage safe/closet? An inch of lead? A foot of lead? Lead costs about a dollar per pound so it's not cheap (a 2 inch lead ball would weigh 1.7lbs).

Thoughts?


Dont need lead. Google "faraday cage" (spelling dhould be close enough). Be sure it is hooked to a ground source.
 
2012-02-23 10:51:43 AM

zedster: I haz a nucular device I can:
1) blow up a city, cause fall out, and knock out nearby unshielded electronics while not having to develop a rocket and give away a launch site
2) develop a launch system, fire it into space, and blow it up above a target to knock out their electronics while also painting a giant HERE I AM COME AND KILL ME sign

hmmm......


And either way every country with nukes will be sending several your way in short order.
 
2012-02-23 10:51:52 AM

Mock26: Got an old computer or any other old electronics that you thought about getting rid of? Build a Faraday cage and store them in there. Periodically back up all computer files to the computer in your Faraday cage. Just be sure to ground your cage!

That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?


Great. Then I remove all that electronic junk I saved and plug it into an electronic grid that doesn't work. Even if I have a generator what the hell am I supposed to do with the only working computer in a 500 mile radius? Email someone for help? Play WOW?

The country is in chaos. There's no running water. No electricity. Minimal food. Roving bands of armed thugs looting whatever resources they can. An invading army likely on it's way. But thank God I got my hard drive backed up! At least I won't have to rewrite my resume."
 
2012-02-23 10:52:16 AM
www.survival-spot.com
fun book
 
2012-02-23 10:55:19 AM

Bacontastesgood: I think the big news here is that the UK has developed satellites that work INSIDE THE ATMOSPHERE


The majority of satellites are "in the atmosphere" considering the upper bound is considered to be as far out as 190,000km, or well over five times the distance of geosynchronous orbit.

=Smidge=
 
2012-02-23 10:55:36 AM

crispyone: How are you supposed to remove the offending country from the map when none of your missiles work?


A lot of Cold War tech is hardened; besides the bulk of the USA's and UK's strategic nuclear arsenals are hiding on submarines far away from this hypothetical detonation.
 
2012-02-23 10:56:08 AM
Someone needs to check out this MP to see if he just purchased a large share in a company that makes EMP hardened electronics.
 
2012-02-23 10:58:05 AM

kcfarker: BigNumber12: kcfarker: I would love to install an EMP in my vehicle.

Imagine waiting at a stop-light and the imbecile at the front of the line has his nose buried in his phone, two-finger typing a banal response to an otherwise innocuous text message, paying zero attention to his surroundings. Light turns green and we're waiting... we're waiting... we're waiting...

As I turn my ignition off, I trigger the EMP and "bam", his vehicle is as dead as a doornail. I start my vehicle back up and slowly ease around his new paperweight and wave as I proceed thru the now-yellow light. Thoughtfully wishing him luck finding a mechanic who can fix his stupidity.


Except that now your car is dead as well, so you get to spend lots of extra time with your stop-light buddy! Nice work!

As long as your electronic device isn't actually on, the EMP can't interfere with the electromagnetic field generated by the electronic device. Hence the term EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse).

/I'm not a rocket-scientist. And neither are you.


Turning something off does not protect it from EMP.....hence the need for a Farraday Cage and hardened circuitry designed to protect systems from an EMP.
 
2012-02-23 11:00:05 AM

crispyone: Mock26: Got an old computer or any other old electronics that you thought about getting rid of? Build a Faraday cage and store them in there. Periodically back up all computer files to the computer in your Faraday cage. Just be sure to ground your cage!

That being said, anyone know how to ground something like a Faraday cage if you live in an apartment in a big city?

Great. Then I remove all that electronic junk I saved and plug it into an electronic grid that doesn't work. Even if I have a generator what the hell am I supposed to do with the only working computer in a 500 mile radius? Email someone for help? Play WOW?

The country is in chaos. There's no running water. No electricity. Minimal food. Roving bands of armed thugs looting whatever resources they can. An invading army likely on it's way. But thank God I got my hard drive backed up! At least I won't have to rewrite my resume."


So... this brings up the question about Terminator 3. If the machines nuked the world, how did Skynet survive if it relied on the internet? Assuming most of the world's electronics and electrical grids would go down, the Net would probably god down too. So wouldn't Skynet be nuking itself into oblivion?
 
2012-02-23 11:00:34 AM

sporkme: [www.survival-spot.com image 329x500]
fun book


Glad diabetes doesn't run in my family.
 
2012-02-23 11:00:39 AM

sporkme: [www.survival-spot.com image 329x500]
fun book


Not the first, by any means.

upload.wikimedia.org

Of course, this concept has also spawned this:

upload.wikimedia.org

Which is basically an updated Red Dawn video game, since it was written by the same guy, John Milius, who apparently Walter from the Big Lebowski is based on.

/Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
 
2012-02-23 11:02:17 AM
If EMP bombs were really that easy to do, then why hasn't anyone done it by now?
 
2012-02-23 11:02:38 AM
We are more likely to have another one of these. Link (new window)

We would be in the dark for awhile.
 
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