gretzkyscores: Not sure why everyone is so upset about rising gas prices. Keynesians continually tell us that consumption is the driving force of the economy, so rising prices for goods like gasoline should be great economic news, since that will cause econmic activity to increase. In fact, you hurt the economy when you attempt to save money by buying goods and services at the lowest price (such as shopping at Wal-Mart), so if you truly believe in Keynsian economics, you should ALWAYS attempt to spend AS MUCH money on a good or service as possible, not save or economize by comparison shopping.

No wonder you're not a Keynesian since you seem to have no understanding of it.

Vidwiz: So glad I have a motorcycle....Only holds 3.5 gallons and gets 45 MPG

Can't wait till I get well enough to ride mine, driving my truck is killing me

Here's a direct link to the section on crisis related peak oil mitigation. (new window) Crises have the effect of causing Hubbert's Curve to plateau or decline and thereby push off the inevitable peak and prolong the age of internal combustion from fossil fuels.

I take that back, the shell station near my house was at 4.63

To be fair that is the worst station in the county but on average san diego is hovering around 4.19

Huggermugger: Teabaggers hatehatehate public transportation. It's "social engineering", and they fight it tooth and nail.

/enjoy your assraping from Big Oil
//I only fill my tank once a month, so I suppose I'll get a big shock in mid-March
///I love public transportation and urban living

A) citation needed. And B) what has the current administration done on this front?

They gave a lot of our money to GM, but not for building buses. They paid us to scrap our cars . . . but only to get us to buy new cars.

Oh they're putting a lot of money towards electric buses . . . no wait, it's cars again.

Rapmaster2000: [abcnews.go.com image 478x413]

Whoa, the delta between regular and premium is only $.20? Around here it used to be that way, but roughly 5 years ago it suddenly became $.30 so that midgrade is $.15 above regular and so on.

My car knocks on mid-grade (stupid high compression ratio) so I have to use premium. The negative side of having power. I'm old now so I think my next car will be a Koreacon Econobox 2000, or maybe some type of motorized skateboard.

What's amusing about that is that even when gas was cheaper... let's say 1998, in Kingsville, Texas to give a specific example.

There's a photo floating around the internets from Kingsville, TX circa Dec. 1998 that showed regular unleaded at .79 cents/gallon, midgrade at 89, and premium at 99. I remember filling up cheaper in Missouri and Georgia around the same time - about 67 cents/gallon.

But your point about delta continues to knock me over with a feather.

Consider this (rough math ahead).

If you have a 20 gallon tank, in my Kingsville, TX example it would cost $15.80 to fill up with 20 gallons, even of the regular unleaded. It would cost $19.80, exactly $4 more to fill up with premium. Unleaded was about 80% of the cost of premium.

Today, using the gas buddy.com estimate for the same station in Kingsville...it's 3.45 unleaded, 3.57 midgrade, 3.69 premium. So despite the increase in price, the delta has only gone up minimally.

Meaning... if you have a 20 gallon tank, it now costs $69 to fill up with regular unleaded, and $73.80 to fill up premium.

With the increase in price, the cost of a tank of unleaded gas is now 93% of the cost of a tank of premium. And as the cost goes up, and the delta stays moderately constant, it starts to become more cost-effective to fill up with premium.

For example... let's look at one of the more expensive cities in the country - Los Angeles, which right now has about the higest gas prices in the nation, even higher than Hawaii.

Right now, at a Chevron station regular unleaded is going for $5.09 a gallon. Midgrade is going for $5.19 a gallon, and premium is going for $5.29 a gallon. Current listed on gasbuddy. (Diesel fuel there is $5.19, and at another station it's $5.59, but that's beside the point.)

So... using the same assumptions. A 20-gallon fill-up costs $101.80, and using premium it costs $105.80. Meaning, a regular fill-up costs 96.2% of a premium fill-up.

Moral of the story - if gas prices continue to rise (and the delta remains relatively constant), bite the bullet and use premium. If it's already costing you over $100 to fill up, what's four more dollars? (hint: not a gallon of gas!)

Not to mention the benefits for your engine.

gilgigamesh: I love that the people catching the brunt of the anger are the poor shlubs working the register for $7 a hour.

That's not even shooting the messenger. Its like shooting the messenger's horse.

That's like shooting the lineman who installed the telegraph wire.

KalinP: Can we start 2 pools. One that about how high the doom sayers say the price of gas goes, and the other about how the actual price of gas. The highs being for this summer.

How about a pool for guessing when the price will dramatically go down? Dibs on the day after the election.

I paid $3.52 this morning, AND had someone else pump my gas. It's the best thing about NJ.

Drubell: [userserve-ak.last.fm image 252x168]



/you see it's better because it's self referential

Here is the real reason behind this

Less people working, less driving, less gas being sold

We need a way to make or profits

Raise prices... plasters the NEWS media that is now understaffed thanks to the fact they are owned by other greedy companies....No questions asked, just run the stories.

When does the revolution begin?... Seriously when do we say enough screwing us over?

Question one: Do you have your own house?
Question two: Do you have more than one car in your household?
Question three: How much a month do you spend on your car payment + gasoline?

If your answers are yes, yes and over $400 - then you're dumb not to buy one of these:

This thread is full of derp.

I'm going to 4chan where they're rational.

More people should work from home. Cut out the cost of gas and the pollution and traffic congestion. Win win win

/works from home
//loves it

ABQGOD
Why is the price of extra octane or additives always an additional 10 cents? How come the difference between gasoline grades never changes?

exactly
in the late 90's it was $1, 1.10 and 1.25. 25% more for super was a big deal. now its almost worth to buy the super just for the hell of it even though pretty much every car company says you only need to use the octane recommended for the car unless it knocks. if it is a newer car and knocks but out of warranty they'd be more then happy to hook it up to their dealership puter for a costly diagnostic.
are you old enough to remember when brands like sunoco had i think 6 grades? 84,86,87,90,92,94 iirc

DonPepper: More people should work from home. Cut out the cost of gas and the pollution and traffic congestion. Win win win

/works from home
//loves it

yes because all jobs are keen on this concept.

Medical Toilet:

Meaning... if you have a 20 gallon tank, it now costs $69 to fill up with regular unleaded, and $73.80 to fill up premium.

With the increase in price, the cost of a tank of unleaded gas is now 93% of the cost of a tank of premium. And as the cost goes up, and the delta stays moderately constant, it starts to become more cost-effective to fill up with premium.

For example... let's look at one of the more expensive cities in the country - Los Angeles, which right now has about the higest gas prices in the nation, even higher than Hawaii.

Right now, at a Chevron statio ...

What surprises me is that in some places the delta hadn't moved at all so the "penalty" of premium had been reduced. I think that's somewhat odd because the component that determines the premium rating is octane which is obtained from crude oil. You'd think it's price would increase by a percentage equal to the price of crude oil/refining inputs. This is almost telling us that the $.10 increase for premium is actually tied more to pricing strategies for marketing more than anything actually tied to a pricing input.

Also, there is no real benefit to higher octane fuel. Vehicles with a higher compression ratio need it to retard premature combustion (engine knock). It doesn't mean a thing to put it in a basic engine like a truck or an econobox.

we should all be using Shweebs! (new window)

StopLurkListen: [i633.photobucket.com image 639x425]
[i257.photobucket.com image 390x216]

Fark those...

this: is what I want

Read more here

Medical Toilet:

Moral of the story - if gas prices continue to rise (and the delta remains relatively constant), bite the bullet and use premium. If it's already costing you over $100 to fill up, what's four more dollars? (hint: not a gallon of gas!)

Not to mention the benefits for your engine.


Unless you're running a high enough compression ratio that your engine knocks on anything but premium, there is no benefit. None at all. You won't get improved gas mileage, and it won't make your engine run cleaner. All you're doing is throwing money away.

watson.t.hamster: GORDON: thomps: if obama hadn't stopped the oil industry from instantly building and bringing online the keystone pipeline, we wouldn't be facing record gas prices. it's also not helping that he refuses to blow up any more oil-exporting countries.

10 years ago they wouldn't let the Alaskan oil preserve be drilled...for... oil.... one of the big arguments was that "It won't even be producing oil for 10 years."

10 years ago.

Well it's true. It wouldn't be ready for ten years which is like forever.

Also why invest in some far off futuristic dream that won't come true for a decade when we can instead put all our resources in to a reasonable and manageable dream that can come true right now: like completely shifting over to renewable fuels, electric cars, and ending our oil dependence.

Keep dreaming. I wouldn't want those overblown golf carts if you paid me. Give me something that doesn't just trade off one form of fuel for another (40% of our electrical generation is coal), and doesn't rely on a more volatile substance. Give me air power, not a battery.

myrrh: Unless you're running a high enough compression ratio that your engine knocks on anything but premium, there is no benefit. None at all. You won't get improved gas mileage, and it won't make your engine run cleaner. All you're doing is throwing money away.

I wouldn't rely on using engine knock to determine required octane. Most cars over the past 20 years have engine knock sensors and will automatically retard the timing of the engine and consume more fuel. Most of the time it won't be detectable by the driver. Rule 1: Read the manual for the recommended octane. Most newer Toyota V6 engines call for 89 octane, but says you can run 87 without damage - just with reduced performance and mileage.

So, we've been thru this cycle perhaps 20 times since the 70's. Each time, in retrospect, we come to the same conclusion. Gas prices rise whenever there's a reason that makes it sound ligitimate to raise prices.
Analysis then finds the 'reason' was not a ligitimate reason, but simply an opportunity to raise prices and point to a reason that seemed ligitimate at the time.
The spike is then followed by a short period of declining prices which suggest that 'we've found that these increases weren't based in any valid cicrumstance', which makes some folks happy that we've resolved this issue! But then the cycle begins again after several quarters have gone by and folks are less angry.

Stop buying vehicles the size of farking houses, idiots.

You can't control the price of oil, but you can resist the urge to buy that farking escalade. Oh and also you giant farking car people can't negotiate parking lots worth shiat. YOU STILL HAVE 6 FEET OF ROOM TO BACK UP YOU STUPID biatch!

god damn trophy wives and their 26 point turns...

watson.t.hamster: Huggermugger: Teabaggers hatehatehate public transportation. It's "social engineering", and they fight it tooth and nail.

/enjoy your assraping from Big Oil
//I only fill my tank once a month, so I suppose I'll get a big shock in mid-March
///I love public transportation and urban living

A) citation needed. And B) what has the current administration done on this front?

They gave a lot of our money to GM, but not for building buses. They paid us to scrap our cars . . . but only to get us to buy new cars.

Oh they're putting a lot of money towards electric buses . . . no wait, it's cars again.

A) Google it yourself. There's plenty out there.

B) They tried to give funds to a number of states for high-speed rail. Whereupon there was the usual shrill screaming about how evil and oppressive this all was.

The main reason you folks hate it is that there are usually government subsidies involved. And also because only darkies, illegals, and LIEberals ride the bus.

/Real Americans drive pickup trucks with faded 9/11 bumper stickers.
//plus the remnants of the Bush/Cheney bumper stickers you tried to scrape off

starlost: ABQGOD
Why is the price of extra octane or additives always an additional 10 cents? How come the difference between gasoline grades never changes?

exactly
in the late 90's it was $1, 1.10 and 1.25. 25% more for super was a big deal. now its almost worth to buy the super just for the hell of it even though pretty much every car company says you only need to use the octane recommended for the car unless it knocks. if it is a newer car and knocks but out of warranty they'd be more then happy to hook it up to their dealership puter for a costly diagnostic.
are you old enough to remember when brands like sunoco had i think 6 grades? 84,86,87,90,92,94 iirc

Not old enough to remember 6 grades, but I remember 4 (when I started driving in the 90's. I can remember filling the tank (15 gal) getting a cup of coffee, paying with a 10 and getting change back

The lowest was 79 Octane and was 78¢ / Gal 83 was 88¢ / Gal 85 was 98¢ / gal and 93 was $1.18

Best part of interview for me (here in Tampa) was the reference to ..."And in Tampa, FL, they're stealing the gas right out of the ground in front of the pumps..." My office erupted in applause at that. Yay Tampa.

nitefallz: DonPepper: More people should work from home. Cut out the cost of gas and the pollution and traffic congestion. Win win win

/works from home
//loves it

yes because all jobs are keen on this concept.

More employers should be keen on this concept. Having an office building that needs electricity, heat, cooling, plumbing, staff to maintain the property inside and out, insurance, furniture, etc costs a fortune in overhead. For staff (like myself) that are mainly on the phone it would make all the sense in the world to let them work from their own homes where they pay the heating, cooling, and insurance costs. The employee sees a benefit of no commute and no dress code, and the company sees an enormous savings on office space.
There's also the cost savings of having digital documentation. If most of your staff works remotely, it would be necessary to store most documents digitally, therefore reducing the number of hard copies to be printed only to be dumped in the office trash (where your custodian must then spend time and energy emptying those hard copies, costing even more).
Your glib response is largely true.. most companies aren't keen on this idea. However, those companies suck.

There was a big fire at the largest refinery here in WA a few days ago.

feuerwehrmann: Not old enough to remember 6 grades, but I remember 4 (when I started driving in the 90's. I can remember filling the tank (15 gal) getting a cup of coffee, paying with a 10 and getting change back

The lowest was 79 Octane and was 78¢ / Gal 83 was 88¢ / Gal 85 was 98¢ / gal and 93 was $1.18

Random fun fact - Overland Willys Jeeps/Trucks from the 1940's can run 67 octane with their 6.48:1 compression, and if the carbs are jetted right can run off of most liquid fossil fuels, except diesel.

"Ah hell naw!"

DonPepper: nitefallz: DonPepper: More people should work from home. Cut out the cost of gas and the pollution and traffic congestion. Win win win

/works from home
//loves it

yes because all jobs are keen on this concept.

More employers should be keen on this concept. Having an office building that needs electricity, heat, cooling, plumbing, staff to maintain the property inside and out, insurance, furniture, etc costs a fortune in overhead. For staff (like myself) that are mainly on the phone it would make all the sense in the world to let them work from their own homes where they pay the heating, cooling, and insurance costs. The employee sees a benefit of no commute and no dress code, and the company sees an enormous savings on office space.
There's also the cost savings of having digital documentation. If most of your staff works remotely, it would be necessary to store most documents digitally, therefore reducing the number of hard copies to be printed only to be dumped in the office trash (where your custodian must then spend time and energy emptying those hard copies, costing even more).
Your glib response is largely true.. most companies aren't keen on this idea. However, those companies suck.

Glib indeed because I anticipated your response and you delivered. I agree with you 100%. My company sucks. However "Getting a new job" really isn't as simple as everyone believes it to be.

GORDON: 10 years ago they wouldn't let the Alaskan oil preserve be drilled...for... oil.... one of the big arguments was that "It won't even be producing oil for 10 years."


Is there an Arctic National Oil Refuge that I'm not aware of?

Is it anywhere near the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR)?

Lando Lincoln: TheNewJesus: Stop buying vehicles the size of farking houses, idiots.

This is not a supply and demand problem. Do you think that supply dropped 13% in the past two weeks? Or do you think that demand increased 13% in the past two weeks? Or perhaps a combination of the two increased 13% in the last two weeks?

No I just think you are a dumbass for spending 4 times as much as I do to travel the same distance.

Enjoy your Escalade...

Huggermugger: Teabaggers hatehatehate public transportation. It's "social engineering", and they fight it tooth and nail.

/enjoy your assraping from Big Oil
//I only fill my tank once a month, so I suppose I'll get a big shock in mid-March
///I love public transportation and urban living

They just have places to be and don't want to wait around for the bus to get there. Plus they don't like hanging out with broke people.

Hooray! More people who absolutely don't want to be on the bus during my morning commute are going to be forced to take the bus! I can't wait!

/Love people watching
//And Schadenfreude
///And Slashies

People_are_Idiots: watson.t.hamster: GORDON: thomps: if obama hadn't stopped the oil industry from instantly building and bringing online the keystone pipeline, we wouldn't be facing record gas prices. it's also not helping that he refuses to blow up any more oil-exporting countries.

10 years ago they wouldn't let the Alaskan oil preserve be drilled...for... oil.... one of the big arguments was that "It won't even be producing oil for 10 years."

10 years ago.

Well it's true. It wouldn't be ready for ten years which is like forever.

Also why invest in some far off futuristic dream that won't come true for a decade when we can instead put all our resources in to a reasonable and manageable dream that can come true right now: like completely shifting over to renewable fuels, electric cars, and ending our oil dependence.

Keep dreaming. I wouldn't want those overblown golf carts if you paid me. Give me something that doesn't just trade off one form of fuel for another (40% of our electrical generation is coal), and doesn't rely on a more volatile substance. Give me air power, not a battery.

Read my post in a sarcastic font.

Huggermugger:
A) Google it yourself. There's plenty out there.

Ah citing google. That never gets old. It gives the impression of evidence without any actual evidence being necessary and gives you the opportunity to call everyone who responds lazy for not doing your work for you.

B) They tried to give funds to a number of states for high-speed rail. Whereupon there was the usual shrill screaming about how evil and oppressive this all was.

High speed rail being A) the only mass transit in existence and B) in no way limited by geographical factors or population density. That's like a doctor recommending amputation for a broken leg then claiming you won't accept any treatment if you balk at his solution.

The main reason you folks hate it is that there are usually government subsidies involved. And also because only darkies, illegals, and LIEberals ride the bus.

If by "you folks" you mean "the strawman you just invented" then sure. I mean I'll take your word for it, I've never met this guy.

Opposing one form of mass transit in specific instances based on the advice of engineers and economists =/= opposing all forms of mass transit ever because the president is black.

Just like saying amputation isn't the best solution to all medical problems =/= opposing all medicine ever because some doctors are black.

watson.t.hamster: People_are_Idiots: watson.t.hamster: GORDON: thomps: if obama hadn't stopped the oil industry from instantly building and bringing online the keystone pipeline, we wouldn't be facing record gas prices. it's also not helping that he refuses to blow up any more oil-exporting countries.

10 years ago they wouldn't let the Alaskan oil preserve be drilled...for... oil.... one of the big arguments was that "It won't even be producing oil for 10 years."

10 years ago.

Well it's true. It wouldn't be ready for ten years which is like forever.

Also why invest in some far off futuristic dream that won't come true for a decade when we can instead put all our resources in to a reasonable and manageable dream that can come true right now: like completely shifting over to renewable fuels, electric cars, and ending our oil dependence.

Keep dreaming. I wouldn't want those overblown golf carts if you paid me. Give me something that doesn't just trade off one form of fuel for another (40% of our electrical generation is coal), and doesn't rely on a more volatile substance. Give me air power, not a battery.

Read my post in a sarcastic font.

Which one? Oh right.... postal font ;)

acad1228: Okay guys, go ahead and hate on me. I'm a part of this. I design oil derricks. With oil at $105/bbl, we're busier than we've ever been. I make money like never before. Tomorrow I'll get my next paycheck; it will have 39 hours of overtime on it. I checked the other day and found out I'm bringing home about $1000 more per paycheck than I was three years ago. Go ahead, curse my name./Republican
//Oklahoman
///Baptist
////Conservative
//Catfish Noodler

Do you work in oklahoma or north dakota in the bakken?

Backwards Cornfield Races: acad1228: Okay guys, go ahead and hate on me. I'm a part of this. I design oil derricks. With oil at $105/bbl, we're busier than we've ever been. I make money like never before. Tomorrow I'll get my next paycheck; it will have 39 hours of overtime on it. I checked the other day and found out I'm bringing home about $1000 more per paycheck than I was three years ago. Go ahead, curse my name./Republican
//Oklahoman
///Baptist
////Conservative
//Catfish Noodler

Do you work in oklahoma or north dakota in the bakken?

I work in a nice comfy office in Tulsa. And I just got asked to stay late tonight and tomorrow night, and to come in on Saturday. (I'm not going to make any plans for Sunday. I the past 12 weeks I've had exactly 3 days off. Ah well, at least they're paying me well. I'll rest when I'm dead.)

Some filling stations raise or lower their prices at different times in the day. I assume the idea is that different kinds of driver come into a station so you alter your prices accordingly to maximize profits. Hardly surprising that if you stood outside one you might see this happening.

acad1228: Backwards Cornfield Races: acad1228: Okay guys, go ahead and hate on me. I'm a part of this. I design oil derricks. With oil at $105/bbl, we're busier than we've ever been. I make money like never before. Tomorrow I'll get my next paycheck; it will have 39 hours of overtime on it. I checked the other day and found out I'm bringing home about $1000 more per paycheck than I was three years ago. Go ahead, curse my name./Republican
//Oklahoman
///Baptist
////Conservative
//Catfish Noodler

Do you work in oklahoma or north dakota in the bakken?I work in a nice comfy office in Tulsa. And I just got asked to stay late tonight and tomorrow night, and to come in on Saturday. (I'm not going to make any plans for Sunday. I the past 12 weeks I've had exactly 3 days off. Ah well, at least they're paying me well. I'll rest when I'm dead.)

Last week our boss called a all hands. "We have the work load to hire another 10%. But I don't think I could ethically do that, if I might have to lay them off before the next year. Is everyone ok with that? It will mean that you are going to have to work more." The government has made it harder and more expensive to hire new people. So it is much easier for companies to just work fewer people harder.

acad1228: Okay guys, go ahead and hate on me. I'm a part of this. I design oil derricks. With oil at $105/bbl, we're busier than we've ever been. I make money like never before. Tomorrow I'll get my next paycheck; it will have 39 hours of overtime on it. I checked the other day and found out I'm bringing home about $1000 more per paycheck than I was three years ago. Go ahead, curse my name./Republican
//Oklahoman
///Baptist
////Conservative
//Catfish Noodler

I don't think anyone is upset that you work in a boom bust industry, and you're experiencing a boom. Good for you. Don't forget to save for a rainy day.