If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Guy)   Do you know any people with really nutty beliefs, like that ZIP codes are illegal or that courtrooms that have flags with fringe on them are illegitimate?   (forum.freestateproject.org) divider line 457
    More: Interesting  
•       •       •

13309 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2012 at 8:31 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



457 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-02-23 03:18:37 AM
I live in Austin. So... yeah.
 
2012-02-23 03:35:23 AM
I know some people who think that Obama does not want to take our guns away
 
2012-02-23 03:55:45 AM
Had a girlfriend whose mom swore that your body could only create vitamin D from sunlight coming into your eyes, and that contact lenses prevented the process. No idea where she got that one.

/whole family was loony
 
2012-02-23 04:05:35 AM
Around this time last year, my crazy-assed ex flipped even further out on her chemo meds. She believed several interesting nuggets of crazy, such as:
1) Charlie Sheen and the Wisconsin Teachers Union were controlling her car radio.
2) The reason she wasn't named Isabella was "because of the thirteen original colonies."
3) Michelle Obama can't wear buttons on her clothing "because of static electricity."
4) Her real job was "not to betray Israel." Nice how she refused to split infinitives, even while crazy.
5) Billy Joel knew what she was doing. She caught a minute or two of a Billy Joel concert on PBS and exclaimed, "Yes. EXACTLY!" as if he'd just confirmed some statement she'd beamed to him via her mysterious brain powers. I think "New York State of Mind" was playing. So that kinda makes since, except we live in NC.
6) Jesus had secretly made her pregnant...with Jesus. (She confided that to me over the phone, but said it was okay for me to tell people, so heads up, farkers)
 
2012-02-23 04:12:55 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch:

[...]

PlatypusPuke: Sure, 99.99% of all conspiracy claims are unfounded without any evidence to support them, but perhaps the idea that SOMETHING has to be going on behind the scenes is what fuels the average conspiracy theorist (if there's such a thing as "average" in this context).

I find your theory compelling. It does require some cognitive dissonance, but that's clearly very common.

[...]


There are two things that unfortunately add fuel to that fire.

First, we know that there have been disclosed and confirmed conspiracies (Northwoods, MKULTRA and Tuskeegee to name a few) so we know there's precedent, intent and motive.

Second, is that we know if something were really up, we won't be told, or the facts will be distorted. For example, let's just pretend that there's a large object in space hurtling towards us that will result in an imminent impact. If the government knew this, it's quite obvious that they'll classify the information and withhold it from the masses. Is it any wonder that not only do we have an "Alex Jones," but also a paranoid audience for people like Alex Jones? Governments painstakingly and notoriously select (or, sometimes fabricate) the information they disseminate.

So, I think that some of the people who're screaming for Obama's "birf certifcat whar," may be using that as a weird psychological proxy to impotently scream for transparency. That could be why they never shut up and/or ignore evidence, because, ultimately, it's not really about the birth certificate specifically they're screaming about. That many people simply can't be that legitimately sick in the head and still be allowed on the streets, so there's gotta be something a little more to it.

That's about as objective as I can get on the subject at this point, however, I will say this: I think it's extremely dangerous to marginalize legitimate discourse into where exactly billions of dollars are disappearing into the DoD because LIZARD PEEPLE AN BIGFOOT LULZ. As the Internet loves to point out time and time again, UFO != extraterrestrial. Questioning what our government is doing with our money should not be the equivalent of chasing farking sasquatch.
 
2012-02-23 04:24:33 AM

Xcott: velvet_fog: There are people who actually believe an invisible being created the universe despite zero evidence this being actually exists.

I know people who think they have dreams at night, despite having zero evidence that this ever really happens.


Not takin' sides here, but that's pure
 
2012-02-23 04:40:14 AM

LineNoise: Also this guy plasters town with his posters.JEFF BOSS (new window)



He runs for every single election, and usually manages to draw 10-20 thousand votes in democrat primaries for some reason.


pawsru.org
 
2012-02-23 04:58:41 AM
I know some people who believe they actually still have Constitutional rights. *crazy*
 
2012-02-23 05:30:43 AM

liverleef: I have a friend that ... believes anything said by Art Bell or Alex Jones.


Sherman Potter: art hasn't been on-air since 2003


Nothing in liverleef's comment indicated he has been.


Xcott: I know people who think they have dreams at night, despite having zero evidence that this ever really happens.


4/10, or you are just a dumbass.
 
2012-02-23 05:38:40 AM

FreakinB: saturn badger: FreakinB: Shaggydum80: I had a computer science class with a guy who thought The Force from the Star Wars movies was a real thing and that he had experienced shifts in the force.

I once saw a guy on a subway platform who was carrying lightsabers. As the train pulled into the station he did sort of a waving motion with his hand in the opposite direction of the train, and my friends and I realized that he was attempting to stop the train with The Force. We got in a different car. Which may or may not have been the right decision.

I do that in elevators. No one takes it seriously. They just smile.

/as it should be

I forget the rest of the details, but trust me when I say that it was clear this guy took it very, very seriously.


Well, the train did stop, didn't it?
 
2012-02-23 06:38:54 AM
Oh yeah, forgot about my crazy neighbour.

She thought our open WiFi access point was harming her children. As soon as we put a password and some encryption on there, apparently that was fine. WTF?

/no, the kids weren't using it to download porn, too young
 
2012-02-23 07:45:56 AM
Just to show not all nutjobs are Americans...
I have a distant relative (by marriage) who will happily explain to you how the Port Arthur massacre (pops) was carried out by American special forces troops (at the request of our then prime minister) in order to give him an excuse to disarm the populace. Apparently (as he explains it) it is about rate of fire and the ratio of fatalities per shot fired, which was way too high for 1 shooter. As a former soldier, I did at first try to explain to him that our low rate of deaths per shot fired had something to do with the fact that the enemy fired back, while tourists visiting a ruins are not expecting a sniper. I quickly learned there was no point using facts in a conversation.

Been a few years since the last time I had to show up to a wedding and listen to the nutjob, so I am not sure if the fact that that PM is gone, his party is no longer in power and we still manage to have a robust democracy (with no martial law) has shot any holes in his theory.

Admittedly, despite working in IT this guy was convinced Y2K would wipe out civilisation. And despite having a six figure salary he drives an old bomb, his kids live in hand me downs and his house is a dump. All because he keeps leaping on get rich quick schemes (the government can't tax you if you invest in pawpaw trees, or crap like that).
 
2012-02-23 08:06:21 AM

OgreMagi: You must be suffering from some serious brain damage.


bourbon induced, sorry. DISAGREED with.

Oy.
 
2012-02-23 08:18:40 AM
As a child, I was told the Russians would bomb us and you could protect yourself by hiding under your desk.
Later on, I was told if we didn't kill the Vietnamese, communism would take over the world.
Little later on, I was told to believe in a Jew who was God, and be a Christian, and the angels would take me when I died.
In highschool, I was told Columbus discovered America.
I was taught all kinds of crap in school, and later on, I actually paid to go to college and have more crap shoveled down my throat.
I was told that we had to invade the Falkland's, and a bunch of other places. I was told Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that were never found or secured.
I was told the Arabs attacked us, when in fact, it was Saudis.
Lately, I've been hearing a lot about how Satan and homos are after our freedoms by the very political party that suspended habeas corpus, suspended the fourth and first amendments and brought us "free speech zones"
All this and more was heaped upon me by my own country. No wonder we have so many nut jobs running about.
Toss in the fact that most folks aren't even that well educated, if at all, and it's a wonder the whole thing doesn't fall down.
Here's hoping sooner or later, Lincoln will be proven right.
 
2012-02-23 08:51:02 AM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: delsydsoftware: I used to work with a woman who believed that her body had an excess store of static electricity. She claimed that it made all of her watches break or run slowly, and she claimed that street lights would turn off when she drove by them.

I know someone like that. She (supposedly) can't wear a watch because after a few days, 'they just stop working'.


My mother was like that...I've seen it happen many times...

/No explanation I can fathom.
//Mom was a little loony though.
 
2012-02-23 08:56:34 AM

Fireproof: malaktaus: I know a guy who thinks the government is setting up FEMA camps for the purpose of mass murder of all who refuse to go along with Fartbama's plan to turn America into an Islamocommunist utopia, or something like that. It's a little hard to follow.

I keep seeing the FEMA camps thing again and again. The person who ran the Facebook page for Occupy (the small suburb that I live in) was some sort of socialist-anarchist (yeah, I know) who posted increasingly crazy stuff, including the FEMA camp thing. Not surprisingly, a lot of people quit following that page. The page was removed before long, probably because the moran who made it set it up as a person's account, not a group or Page.

The thing about a lot of conspiracies that gets me, especially the FEMA camp thing, is that involves something that's *ABOUT* to happen, and yet this thing never happens, but the people who believe it can't ever turn around and realize that its been 3 years and not a single person has been forced into a camp

/I'll never quite get why its supposed to be FEMA doing that. Must be something to do with how much the trailers/tents sucked to live in after Katrina


No, that conspiracy theory predates Katrina.

It goes at least back to the 90's. I saw plenty of vintage derp from right-wingers who thought it would be Clinton who declares martial law and brings in UN troops (Chinese troops wearing UN insignia hiding in vast abandoned salt mines beneath Michigan) to rule the US as a socialist state and putting all dissidents into FEMA-run concentration camps as he takes everybodies guns.

I kept getting e-mail forwards from a relative that wasn't all there, and he was determined that that this was all very real. I think the FEMA hate comes from the idea that somehow an emergency/crisis will be used as an excuse for FEMA to start relocating/detaining people.

Basically any time there is a Democrat president, the far-right will say he's the one that is going to put everyone in FEMA camps.
 
2012-02-23 09:03:02 AM
I used to work in IT at the State Department, and we would occasionally give out software for employees to use at home. At one point there was a guy telling anyone who would listen that the purpose of the software was to spy on employee's home computers and read their email. No, he wasn't kidding.
 
2012-02-23 09:34:36 AM

muck4doo: Currently have a co-worker who gets red in the face mad about how we faked the moon landing(he's from Eastern Europe).


Oh god, Eastern Europeans. It must have been growing up under all that whacked out Soviet propaganda. I was at a party talking to a Serbian friend of a friend a few years after the war in Bosnia ended. This was an educated guy, but he started telling me that the US used "invisible tanks" in the conflict and that he knew it was true because his brother saw one. I asked him did he mean "stealth" tanks, difficult to detect like the planes because I though he might be confused, but no, he said they had cloaking devices that turned them invisible. I didn't know how to respond to that. I remember mumbling something about "I think in war, things can get confusing."

It's not the first time I've encountered this sort of thing talking to someone. Especially when it comes to military tech, a lot of the developing world and former Eastern Bloc think the US has technology verging on magic. Like the people in Iraq and Afghanistan that think the wrap-around sunglasses favored by troops have X-ray vision.
 
2012-02-23 09:50:35 AM

atlfarkette: My dad is Fox News lovin, Limbaugh listening kinda guy and he started rambling on that loaves of bread would be over $20 within a year or so.


PlatypusPuke: Sylvia_Bandersnatch:

[...]

PlatypusPuke: Sure, 99.99% of all conspiracy claims are unfounded without any evidence to support them, but perhaps the idea that SOMETHING has to be going on behind the scenes is what fuels the average conspiracy theorist (if there's such a thing as "average" in this context).

I find your theory compelling. It does require some cognitive dissonance, but that's clearly very common.

[...]

There are two things that unfortunately add fuel to that fire.

First, we know that there have been disclosed and confirmed conspiracies (Northwoods, MKULTRA and Tuskeegee to name a few) so we know there's precedent, intent and motive.

Second, is that we know if something were really up, we won't be told, or the facts will be distorted. For example, let's just pretend that there's a large object in space hurtling towards us that will result in an imminent impact. If the government knew this, it's quite obvious that they'll classify the information and withhold it from the masses. Is it any wonder that not only do we have an "Alex Jones," but also a paranoid audience for people like Alex Jones? Governments painstakingly and notoriously select (or, sometimes fabricate) the information they disseminate.

So, I think that some of the people who're screaming for Obama's "birf certifcat whar," may be using that as a weird psychological proxy to impotently scream for transparency. That could be why they never shut up and/or ignore evidence, because, ultimately, it's not really about the birth certificate specifically they're screaming about. That many people simply can't be that legitimately sick in the head and still be allowed on the streets, so there's gotta be something a little more to it.

That's about as objective as I can get on the subject at this point, however, I will say this: I think it's extremely dangerous to marginalize legitimate discourse into where exactly billions of dollars are disappearing into the DoD because LIZARD PEEPLE AN B ...


I find all conspiracy theories to be absurd, but I don't find it hard to believe that a few hundred rich and powerful people are calling the shots in the US. I have this idea that when a new President is elected he's abducted at night by the Secret Service and taken to a room where he is told how things REALLY work and who he REALLY works for. That's why nothing ever really changes.
 
2012-02-23 09:53:49 AM
I knew a guy who believed all kinds of the typical racist conspiracy nonsense. One of my favorites was that if a white woman had a black man's child, every child she had after that would have "black traits".

I tried to explain that generics simply don't work that that way. You can imagine how that went.
 
2012-02-23 09:56:46 AM
I had a friend growing up who didn't trust microwaves and would rush by ours when it was on.

My wife yells at me if I open the microwave door if I don't wait a few seconds after its shuts off becuase the radiation might affect my sperm.
 
2012-02-23 10:06:16 AM

generalDisdain: My uncle thought he was St. Jerome.


I'd call that a big yes.
 
2012-02-23 10:27:35 AM
My boyfriend watches way too much Bigfoot searching stuff on TV.
 
2012-02-23 10:28:42 AM
I personally don't believe we landed on the moon.

I am 33 and cannot believe it has happened. We had the tech then but not now? Explain to me why this has never happened in my lifetime even though shiat sewers like China and
India want to get there? Perhaps they want to be the first to really claim true global dominance? Maybe HDTV scares NASA as it would be easier to dissect their lie to keep funding (what little they deserve because they are basically wishful dreamers). Funny that Mars looks like our Earthly desolate deserts. Almost convenient.
 
2012-02-23 10:31:09 AM

ArcadianRefugee: Xcott: I know people who think they have dreams at night, despite having zero evidence that this ever really happens.

4/10, or you are just a dumbass.


Oh, so you have evidence that you dream, rather than just me taking your word for it?

A dream is a completely undocumentable, unprovable experience, like clairvoyance or feeling the presence of a ghost. If you're a genuine Internet Atheist(tm), you have to accept that dreams don't really happen, and are instead mass delusions.
 
2012-02-23 10:33:24 AM
I believe there was no way a bunch of Navy seals, who did everything they could to conceal their home country identity during this black op (including using a helicopter no one had ever seen before), would bring a flag to the Bin Laden compound so they could later sign it, thereby breaching one of the greatest secrets the government has. After they signed it, the president could show it to absolutely no one, but he could announce to the world that it exists. Sorry, that did not happen. Am I nutty or what?
 
2012-02-23 10:42:43 AM

nbrfwhoooo: Funny that Mars looks like our Earthly desolate deserts. Almost convenient.


What should the surface of another planet look like? Marble Madness?
 
2012-02-23 10:44:26 AM
I went to college with a guy who was really out there. At first he seemed okay, a little eccentric and kooky, but decent enough to hang out with occasionally.

Over the next couple of year it turned out he believed:
1. He is psychic
2. He receives mystic visions of another world/dimension where his soul goes when he sleeps.
3. Every night he spends years on this other world, where he's a mystic warrior who goes around slaughtering the wizards on that world because they are tainted by cosmic evil.
4. Is fighting an evil overlord of immense, nigh-godlike power who has conquered that world and wants to conquer ours.
5. This evil overlord wants to invade our world, and in doing so kill God and become the new God.
6. Only he can stop this overlord from killing God and conquering our world, and to do this he'll need the unquestioning support and help of people around him.
7. Strong similarities between the full version of his story and many fantasy novels mean that there are other people who have seen incomplete visions of this world and his role in it and have tried to explain it the best they can, so those novels are actually true (but distorted) tales of what he does but only he has the complete truth and knows it's reality and not fiction.

He actually started convincing some of my more gullible friends about this and trying to muster up some sort of cult. I ended up losing a few friends and basically getting ostracized from a social circle I'd been a part of for several years because I called bullshiat on all this. Last I heard, he still had a half-dozen or so followers.
 
2012-02-23 10:46:50 AM

nbrfwhoooo: I personally don't believe we landed on the moon.

I am 33 and cannot believe it has happened. We had the tech then but not now? Explain to me why this has never happened in my lifetime even though shiat sewers like China and
India want to get there? Perhaps they want to be the first to really claim true global dominance? Maybe HDTV scares NASA as it would be easier to dissect their lie to keep funding (what little they deserve because they are basically wishful dreamers). Funny that Mars looks like our Earthly desolate deserts. Almost convenient.


No, we have the tech now. We just don't think that a manned moon mission is worthwhile.
 
2012-02-23 10:50:44 AM

Xcott: ArcadianRefugee: Xcott: I know people who think they have dreams at night, despite having zero evidence that this ever really happens.

4/10, or you are just a dumbass.

Oh, so you have evidence that you dream, rather than just me taking your word for it?

A dream is a completely undocumentable, unprovable experience, like clairvoyance or feeling the presence of a ghost. If you're a genuine Internet Atheist(tm), you have to accept that dreams don't really happen, and are instead mass delusions.


How about you quit putting your foot in your mouth, okay?

/I think your score is unfair, though, since your threadjack actually worked as opposed the the baker's dozen other attempts.
 
2012-02-23 11:02:59 AM

LoneWolf343: How about you quit putting your foot in your mouth, okay?


Oh so? And what on that page is evidence that dreams actually happen?

REM sleep? Brain activity? Those are just phenomena we assume are associated with dreams. Surely you can see the bogus logic here:

"Angels communicate with us in our sleep."
"Prove it."
"Here, look at this PET scan. Look at this rapid eye movement. It happens right when the angels visit us. So it's real."
"But how do you know that's caused by angels?"
"Because here, look at this PET scan. Look at this rapid eye movement. It happens right when...."
 
2012-02-23 11:05:28 AM

Xcott: LoneWolf343: How about you quit putting your foot in your mouth, okay?


Oh so? And what on that page is evidence that dreams actually happen?

REM sleep? Brain activity? Those are just phenomena we assume are associated with dreams. Surely you can see the bogus logic here:

"Angels communicate with us in our sleep."
"Prove it."
"Here, look at this PET scan. Look at this rapid eye movement. It happens right when the angels visit us. So it's real."
"But how do you know that's caused by angels?"
"Because here, look at this PET scan. Look at this rapid eye movement. It happens right when...."


I know people who are proud of being intentionally obtuse and ignorant.

/taking the bait
 
2012-02-23 11:14:02 AM

my.hot.cousin: /why would you ever believe this?


You probably aren't expecting a reply opening with this thought, but this makes a lot of sense. I mean, we know that people in the Middle East aren't stupid. And it's hard to believe that they're just profoundly ignorant either. But it's very easy to believe that they are not taught critical thinking skills during their education, at least enough to help them distinguish facts from non-facts -- which mostly comes down to discriminating sources rather than raw data.

If you're on a street corner and there are two people there telling you two different things about what the numbers on bottles mean, and one is a college professor and the other is just some guy, I think most Westerners will lean towards the professor's view, at least in that instance, given that he's evidently got somewhat more familiarity with discrimination of information by sources, and is therefore more likely to have the facts, or at least know who does.

If you're in a classroom in a second-tier nation, and a member of the most advanced civilisation the world has ever known is telling you something, you don't necessarily need to accept it, but you should at least consider that he just might be better educated on the subject, or know better sources than you do. The absolute conviction you describe in the aghast Arab speaks to a mind that has not stopped to consider the comparative validity of sources.

But this is not a slam on Arabs, Iraqi or otherwise. We see the same in this country, and much of the Western world. And every damn day right here on Fark: people who are just sure that what they believe or just "makes sense" to them is factually correct, and what educated academics say otherwise is suspect or just plain wrong. That's why we can't seem to have an intelligent and constructive national dialogue about important scientific issues, or even about the nature of science itself.

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: I had you Farkied in red with the title "Cop Apologist"


I vaguely remember that thread, or one like it. That might be apparent from one or another thread, but in others I've savaged law enforcement, too. In one recent thread I held forth on the rot of evil that pervades the Providence Police Department, including a litany of their many heinous crimes, even my own direct witness accounts of their douchery.

I'll play devil's advocate if I think some facet of a discussion is being overlooked, if the I think the conversation is too one-sided based on some unaddressed consideration, or similar circumstance. I look at discussions like a lump of dough you're trying to compress into a ball, but it's too big for any one person to handle. A group of people need to make sure they've got a hand on every part of it, or else it will come out lopsided, or slip and fall. That sometimes means appealing to various sides, for the sake of perspective. I don't have a single fixed perspective on people like police. But I've come to their defence when I felt the argument did not treat them fairly, or made baseless accusations without evidence. But I've pummeled them also, when I felt it needed to be clarified that not all cops are Officer Friendly, either, and some whole departments need to be hauled into court.

You also reminded me that I should click those buttons more often. I keep forgetting to, for some reason. (Probably because I almost never look at those lists.)

MaestroJ: I know a woman who's truly terrified if she expresses her opposition to gay marriage to me, I'll have her thrown in jail for a hate crime. She knows I know she's against it, but she firmly believe there's a "gay agenda," and that I'm fully aware of it and we have occasional communications.


Is she from a country that does that to people? Does she not understand the First Amendment? Or does she honestly believe that there's a secret cabal of powerful gay people who can get around those provisions, and just do to her whatever they want?

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Sylvia_Bandersnatch, it looks like our love-letters crossed in the mail. :)


[
I probably forgot the stamp again.

a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/6957014/75142471#c75142471" target="_blank">MustTryHarder: I was once a reporter, so I went along to see this famous anti-gay Christian preacher.

His talk was priceless lunacy, but what stood out was his theory that New Zealand is a British country, and the Queen is the head of the Church of England, therefore New Zealand is a Christian country, and therefore the Members of Parliament that don't swear on the Bible when they are inaugurated are guilty of treason. I suppressed a snicker.


Eh.. I'm not going to look it up right now, but I think that might have been mostly correct, if you go back far enough. NZ started off as a British colony ("wholly-owned subsidiary" in modern American parlance), and I think the British Monarch *still is* the official head of the Church of England ("Defender of the Faith"). But NZ has been an independent nation for a good while, and the Church and UK government have never been one and the same in any case, and now have very little to do with each other beyond the occasional bit of pomp. I'm less clear on how the modern Commonwealth system works. My impression is that the UK pretends to partly govern these countries, and they pretend to accept it. The governor-general of Canada is appointed by the Crown, but I'm pretty sure it's set up so that the Crown merely puts its imprimatur on whoever Canada already picked for the job. That sort of thing.

Regardless, the Church of England does not condemn gays. So even if the rest of his rap is sane, it still doesn't come to the conclusion it sounds like he thinks it does.

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: You guys reminded me of something my cousins used to believe when we were kids. Coors bottle labels used to have a series of one to four dots on the back. They were probably printing codes. My cousins believed that if you could peel a rare four-dotter off the bottle perfectly, and get a girl to sign it, she legally had to put out. Seriously.


I'd be interested in hearing about their attempts to prove this theory. I'm guessing they never got the label off clean, or convinced a girl to sign it if they did?

puppetmaster745: I think I might be crazy.

CliChe Guevara: why in the world did you waste that kind of opportunity? why? seriously?

She wasn't a sociopath, she was a psychopath. She was fully functional in the world, and seemed perfectly normal to most people most of the time. I found her very aggravating to be around. But if you want to know, what really did it for me was the day we were cleaning plastic plants. You couldn't just hose them down, because they collected some kind of gluten or something on them that had to be scrubbed off by hand. A couple hours into this process, I said, "You know, I bet the ancient Greeks and Romans didn't sit around all day cleaning their plastic plants." She paused, thinking, then said, "They probably didn't have any."

She wasn't funny at all, just very annoying. I once tried to show her how to do a crossword. I'd been doing them for most of my life, but it was a mystery to her how they could be done at all. I tried to walk her through it, but she just wouldn't listen. She'd guess at an answer, then argue about why it made sense. She'd argue with anyone about anything, and was sure she was right -- even if all evidence suggested otherwise. And if she was proven wrong, it was either an outlier example, or she had some other excuse. I mostly just wanted to tape her mouth over.

She went on to become a cop in my city, which I admit made me nervous, but I'd remind myself that the law was on my side, even in that corrupt place, and she couldn't really get away with much. As it happened, she wrecked so many cars (still the department record-holder, I believe) that they took her off beats and assigned her to writing up accidents (since she's apparently an expert in that by now). Her one redeeming quality, besides being very fit,* is that she more or less believes all other human beings are beneath her, so she doesn't play favourites. She really can be impartial, but for a rather ugly reason.

* She was obsessed with fitness. I left her personal calendar at work one day, and I thumbed through it. Pretty much the only entries were about gym appointments, usually specifying what she was going to work on that day. She was strong and had some fight training, and in theory could hold her own in a fight. I might have been concerned about that, but her much smaller sister, who I was good friends with, told me that she's actually a big scaredy-cat, and it's enough to just show her that you're not afraid of her, and she'll back off.

PlatypusPuke: So, I think that some of the people who're screaming for Obama's "birf certifcat whar," may be using that as a weird psychological proxy to impotently scream for transparency. That could be why they never shut up and/or ignore evidence, because, ultimately, it's not really about the birth certificate specifically they're screaming about. That many people simply can't be that legitimately sick in the head and still be allowed on the streets, so there's gotta be something a little more to it.

I think you're probably right about this. At least, it jibes with a lot of my own thinking about the same thing, and I've been trying to make better sense of it for a long time.

ArcadianRefugee: Xcott: I know people who think they have dreams at night, despite having zero evidence that this ever really happens.

4/10, or you are just a dumbass.

I'm not saying for sure, but I feel certain that was meant ironically.

It's a demonstration of the non-disprovability paradox, that some things are almost certain to be real, even though they're so far impossible to prove or disprove. Dreaming is something that almost everyone does, and so we all agree that it's real and normal, but at this moment in our science we cannot objectively prove it. Nondisprovability is key to many popular conspiracy theories, because part of the 'evidence' for them is that it's not possible to firmly disprove them. This relates to the problem of not being able to disprove a negative, which is familiar to many educated people but not to most people generally. Lacking that critical thinking skill, many people will find persuasive, or at least compelling, any interesting notion that 1) appears to explain something, and 2) cannot be disproven. The latter factor extends, however, to "to their satisfaction": Many of them won't accept some or all of the real evidence available, which amounts to the same thing.

I thought it was very clever.

497.5 Feet of Rope: Well, the train did stop, didn't it?

This guy's pretty amazing.

 
2012-02-23 11:24:04 AM
Stick with me on this one.

When I was in Chinese Medicine school, there was a guy doing his senior dissertation on how the numbers of the acupuncture points had deep mathematical and philosophical meaning. Unfortunately, this guy couldn't seem to comprehend the fact that the ancient Chinese actually named all their points things like "Welcome Fragrance" or "Jumping Round". Most of the names have elegant meanings that speak to the use of the point.

The acupoint numbering system was imposed when acupuncture started being taught to Westerners; the ever-modernizing Communist regime thought it would help systematize the acupoints system. Unfortunately, since numbering is completely arbitrary, there is more than one numbering system out there, so each point could have 2-3 different, but correct-for-that-system, numbers.

I couldn't convince that guy that he was tilting at windmills made of clouds for love nor money (not that I tried either of those.) As far as I know, he submitted that crap thesis and got his degree, too (I think the college just wanted him to leave quietly.)

Same guy also tried to convince me that there was great Cosmic Significance because a^2+b^2=c^2 (Pythagorean theorem) relates to E=mc^2 (general relativity) through the "c^2". He would combine the two and go into elaborate calculations. I couldn't convince him that the Pythagorean "c^2" was a variable that stood for the length of the hypoteneuse of a right triangle, and the Relativity "c^2" was a essentially a huge effing number that never varied.

I'm not a big math whiz, but this guy made me seem like Richard Feynman.

/done now, that was long, sorry
 
2012-02-23 11:27:54 AM

rustypouch: I know people who are proud of being intentionally obtuse and ignorant.

/taking the bait


Indeed, you know lots of people that are this obtuse and ignorant, because I am simply repeating the bogus logic of militant atheists.

To say "XYZ is a nutty belief because there's no evidence for it" is silly, because there are plenty of real phenomena that we can barely measure or maybe never measure. What you dream about is one example. You can't demonstrate this any more than an alleged psychic can document a religious or clairvoyant experience.

Another example are medical conditions whose only symptoms are those directly experienced by the patient, like headaches or muscle pain. Are migraines real? Is fibromyalgia real? How do you prove people are really experiencing it? By this logic, it must all be flummery and mass delusion.

Even outside the human condition, there are physical phenomena we may never measure. By some cosmological theories, the universe is far larger than the distance light can travel over the age of the universe. But if it was, how could we know? Anything on the other side of this massive universe might as well be a parallel one in its own separate timeline, because we have no means of observing it at all.
 
2012-02-23 11:32:42 AM

Xcott: LoneWolf343: How about you quit putting your foot in your mouth, okay?


Oh so? And what on that page is evidence that dreams actually happen?

REM sleep? Brain activity? Those are just phenomena we assume are associated with dreams. Surely you can see the bogus logic here:

"Angels communicate with us in our sleep."
"Prove it."
"Here, look at this PET scan. Look at this rapid eye movement. It happens right when the angels visit us. So it's real."
"But how do you know that's caused by angels?"
"Because here, look at this PET scan. Look at this rapid eye movement. It happens right when...."


You said that there was no scientific evidence of dreaming. It's true that a dream has not been observed directly by a third party, but there is plenty of scientific evidence of mental activity in a sleeping subject, from which we can infer dreaming. To say we can't infer dreaming is like saying we can't infer a black whole when we observe a star getting ripped apart before vanishing out of existence. You might say that, but before long you would be going to solipsism.

I consider some (not all) aniti-theistic reasoning to be obtuse too, but being obtuse in return will only insure that we have a couple of self-righteous idiots shouting at each other, and that helps no one.
 
2012-02-23 11:37:17 AM

Xcott: rustypouch: I know people who are proud of being intentionally obtuse and ignorant.

/taking the bait

Indeed, you know lots of people that are this obtuse and ignorant, because I am simply repeating the bogus logic of militant atheists.

To say "XYZ is a nutty belief because there's no evidence for it" is silly, because there are plenty of real phenomena that we can barely measure or maybe never measure. What you dream about is one example. You can't demonstrate this any more than an alleged psychic can document a religious or clairvoyant experience.

Another example are medical conditions whose only symptoms are those directly experienced by the patient, like headaches or muscle pain. Are migraines real? Is fibromyalgia real? How do you prove people are really experiencing it? By this logic, it must all be flummery and mass delusion.

Even outside the human condition, there are physical phenomena we may never measure. By some cosmological theories, the universe is far larger than the distance light can travel over the age of the universe. But if it was, how could we know? Anything on the other side of this massive universe might as well be a parallel one in its own separate timeline, because we have no means of observing it at all.


I also know people who don't know what the words "logic" and "evidence" mean, and when they keep blathering on as if they do, makes them even more ignorant, idiotic, and dogmatic.
 
2012-02-23 11:43:38 AM

phoolishone: When I was in Chinese Medicine school, there was a guy doing his senior dissertation on how the numbers of the acupuncture points had deep mathematical and philosophical meaning. Unfortunately, this guy couldn't seem to comprehend the fact that the ancient Chinese actually named all their points things like "Welcome Fragrance" or "Jumping Round". Most of the names have elegant meanings that speak to the use of the point.


When I first started college, the bookstore's New Age section had a book on fortune telling using runes. It got my attention because it came with a set of clay runes in a bag, which is like crack for gamers---forget what the book's about, runes!

So I bought the book and read it. The dude didn't really do any historical research into actual Norse methods of divination, but just made everything up himself, including what the runes meant. Not a huge surprise, since that level of academic integrity is pretty typical for the New Age section.

But what astounded me was the author's excuse. He said he had to make it all up, because nobody knew how the Norse played with runes---because their society "didn't keep any written records." Here he is playing with the Norse ALPHABET, a thing you use for WRITING, and his book even had some engravings of runestones with WRITING ON THEM, but oh, they didn't have a written language.

It helps to know that there is a lot known about the games the Norse played with runes, and all he had to do was go to a decent library and crib half of someone else's book. But apparently that was impossible because libraries don't have a written call number system.
 
2012-02-23 11:49:11 AM

Monkeylint: Especially when it comes to military tech, a lot of the developing world and former Eastern Bloc think the US has technology verging on magic.


I'm not sure about technology, but you reminded me of a story my brother told me. He'd been to the Yucatan, and told me that a lot of people there believed that Americans are immortal. That is, we can be killed normally, but otherwise we'll live forever. I can't imagine where that could come from.

Infinite Entropy: I find all conspiracy theories to be absurd, but I don't find it hard to believe that a few hundred rich and powerful people are calling the shots in the US. I have this idea that when a new President is elected he's abducted at night by the Secret Service and taken to a room where he is told how things REALLY work and who he REALLY works for. That's why nothing ever really changes.


The very sad reality is that most people function a lot like racists: They earnestly want to believe that anyone but them is to blame for their problems, and find it easiest and most comforting to blame an easily identifiable group who are indisputably not like them.

The problem with our government, as I've said many times before and will again, is that the democratic process can only achieve, in sum, just a little bit better than the average of its constituents. Put simply, government sucks because we do. That's a reality quite apart from the many secrets that government does keep, but it's been shown again and again and again that those secrets fall into only a few well-worn categories: national security, embarrassing or damaging details, and failed projects. Government makes lots and lots of mistakes, because it's run by humans who aren't a lot better than us, only a little bit better, and that only on average. Reagan said that the best and the brightest aren't working in government, which is a bit of mid-century hyperbole that many people took literally; what he meant was that government doesn't tend to attract the best minds, but rather those above average, and some below average.

That there are wealthy powerbrokers is probably rational, in that that's been a common pattern throughout all history, but it's probably less true here than in, for example, the rich nation-states of the Renaissance, when whole families conspicuously and jealously ran some places. (E.g., the Medicis) The machinery of democracy gives We the People unusual influence in how things run, but the very sad reality is that we're not all that great at it.

nbrfwhoooo: I personally don't believe we landed on the moon.


I started to write a reply to this, about how democratic societies must have the popular will to agree to fund such projects, and ours doesn't anymore. But on re-reading your post, I realise you've got much deeper problems, including serious failures of critical thinking. That's well beyond my capacity to help you with. My short answer is that you need to grow up and go back to school, but I don't know if that would help. You might be doomed to derp your whole life.

Xcott: Oh so? And what on that page is evidence that dreams actually happen?


This was funny at first, but I think you're getting a little carried away with it now.
 
2012-02-23 11:57:53 AM
Xcott:When I first started college, the bookstore's New Age section had a book on fortune telling using runes. It got my attention because it came with a set of clay runes in a bag, which is like crack for gamers---forget what the book's about, runes! [snip]

But what astounded me was the author's excuse. He said he had to make it all up, because nobody knew how the Norse played with runes---because their society "didn't keep any written records." Here he is playing with the Norse ALPHABET, a thing you use for WRITING, and his book even had some engravings of runestones with WRITING ON THEM, but oh, they didn't have a written language. [snip]


Yep! Just like how modern Wicca was made up out of whole cloth by people like Starhawk. Most of the less-educated Wiccans believe they're practicing something that's been handed down "in secret" since ancient times. Meanwhile, Starhawk & Co. are laughing all the way to the bank.
 
2012-02-23 11:58:16 AM

phoolishone: As far as I know, he submitted that crap thesis and got his degree, too (I think the college just wanted him to leave quietly.)


To be fair, it's not really important what anyone involved in accu-anything believes. I'm sure the school took the tuition payments very seriously, though.

Xcott: Indeed


I thought you were being clever, but now I think you're just nutty.
 
2012-02-23 12:08:28 PM

ko_kyi: OgreMagi: You must be suffering from some serious brain damage.

bourbon induced, sorry. DISAGREED with.

Oy.


Brain damage, bourbon. Same thing.
 
2012-02-23 12:12:18 PM

LoneWolf343: You said that there was no scientific evidence of dreaming. It's true that a dream has not been observed directly by a third party, but there is plenty of scientific evidence of mental activity in a sleeping subject, from which we can infer dreaming.


Here's a problem with this logic: you can also observe atypical brain activity in a subject having an "out of body experience." That is not evidence that out-of-body experiences are real, and you can't infer their existence from the brain activity. Brain activity is just that; it doesn't prove that any particular psychic phenomenon is happening.

This may sound like sophistry, but this actually matters in some related areas in psychology. For example, is hypnosis real? We can verify that hypnotized subjects have different brain activity during trance, but does that really mean someone is in a distinct hypnotic state, as opposed to an ordinary state of heightened focus? There is a stage magician (not James Randi) who offers a cash prize to anyone who can prove that hypnosis is real, and there's essentially no way anyone could ever win that money, simply because the phenomenon is just beyond the scope of scientific verifiability.

Another example is the phenomenon of lucid dreaming, remaining conscious and in control during a dream, and therefore able to traipse around your dream like it was a holodeck. It is maddeningly difficult to determine if this ever really happens to anyone, because how could you tell?

I once tried to experiment with lucid dreaming, after observing that if I woke up with sleep paralysis, I could sometimes drift back into a dream. I therefore figured that the next time I woke up paralyzed, I could try to start dreaming while remaining conscious. This seemed to work, and I was able to change my scenery and fly around; but when I woke up, I realized that I might have just dreamt the entire experience, including the paralysis, and wasn't sure if I was ever conscious at all. That is to say, lucid dreamers might just be regular dreamers having a regular dream about having a lucid dream.

To say we can't infer dreaming is like saying we can't infer a black whole when we observe a star getting ripped apart before vanishing out of existence. You might say that, but before long you would be going to solipsism.

The difference here is that without the black hole, nothing else would be ripping apart that star. When you sleep, brain activity could easily be caused by something other than dreaming. Brain activity doesn't cry out for explanation like star matter being sucked away to an invisible thing.

Furthermore, black holes can be inferred without any evidence at all, simply from the laws of general relativity. You can predict black holes, and then observe phenomena that exactly match your prediction.

I consider some (not all) aniti-theistic reasoning to be obtuse too, but being obtuse in return will only insure that we have a couple of self-righteous idiots shouting at each other, and that helps no one.

When dealing with an ideologue, gently walking through the logic doesn't help much either, and it is a lot less entertaining.
 
2012-02-23 12:37:32 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: phoolishone: As far as I know, he submitted that crap thesis and got his degree, too (I think the college just wanted him to leave quietly.)

To be fair, it's not really important what anyone involved in accu-anything believes. I'm sure the school took the tuition payments very seriously, though.


Fortunately, acupuncture works well for certain conditions whether or not arrogant ignorant people believe in it. And it was a pretty good school, though yes, it did have its trade school aspects. You could skate by without doing much except studying for the state board exams, but there was the opportunity to learn much, much more than that. I did the work and got a lot out of it.
 
2012-02-23 12:39:22 PM
I've got a good friend who doesn't believe in the moon. Intelligent, well-spoken guy in every other area, but you can't convince him that the moon is real, even by pointing at it.
 
2012-02-23 12:50:21 PM

jezrakreider: I've got a good friend who doesn't believe in the moon. Intelligent, well-spoken guy in every other area, but you can't convince him that the moon is real, even by pointing at it.


I knew someone in college who would not believe that .99999... equals 1. And anyone who tried to convince her otherwise was some lying lawyer-type with a forked tongue perverting the truth.

I asked her if 1/3 was 0.3333..., and she said yes. Then I said, "so what's 1/3 plus 1/3 plus 1/3?" She thought about it for a minute and said that I was a lying lawyer type with a forked tongue perverting the truth.

/In all fairness, though, I think she was not serious in her disbelief.
 
2012-02-23 01:02:45 PM
So I see that this is mostly a fatuous thought experiment intended to "disprove" atheism, but I will bite: what about people who talk or move in their sleep in a manner commensurate with reported dreams? What about pharmaceuticals that reliably cause vivid or disturbing dreams? Etc. etc.

The sensory, experiential aspects of dreams are not directly observable by present means. In this aspect they are not scientifically unique. Like distant astronomical objects we observe from the perturbation of orbits and the occlusion of light, we must extrapolate the nature of the thing from its effects on its surroundings. The current body of subjective and objective data suggests that the existence of dreams is the most logical explanation for this data. If you'd like to argue the contrary - that there is some vastly improbable, complicated collusion of sleepers, patients, scientists, etc. - be my guest.

There's also the fact that the idea (and science) of dreams doesn't carry the sociopolitical charge of the idea of deities. Most people these days accept that dreams can offer inspiration and emotional weight, but correctly consider it silly to treat them as binding auguries of the future or rigid, universal moral precepts. People do treat religion that way, so there's more incentive for both sides to make sweeping claims.

I don't see much point in ragging on people's spirituality, as long as they understand that nonreligious justifications are necessary for anything that spirituality seeks to require of others.
 
2012-02-23 01:03:05 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: She wasn't a sociopath, she was a psychopath.....

She went on to become a cop


somehow this doesn't surprise me.

at any rate, its still a shame - you were her boss, she thought she could not be held responsible for anything she did if her boss told her to do it, and she had a complete and utter contempt of all people.

i completely understand wanting rid of her - still, it sounds like you could have gotten rid of her in a much more amusing way than just firing her. at a word you could have really gotten her to do something epic, and had her leave in a straightjacket while the news crews covered the disaster response!
 
2012-02-23 01:13:17 PM

phoolishone: Yep! Just like how modern Wicca was made up out of whole cloth by people like Starhawk. Most of the less-educated Wiccans believe they're practicing something that's been handed down "in secret" since ancient times. Meanwhile, Starhawk & Co. are laughing all the way to the bank.


I once had a girlfriend who was downright nutty and also a Wiccan. She would always take so much pride in how her religion was "older" than mine. (My Jewish friend wisely kept his mouth shut.) Quite a shame that I didn't find out that most of modern Wicca is only about a century old until long after our breakup. She was also the type to go apeshiat when she saw a photo of Obama not putting his hand over his heart while reciting the Pledge.

Her younger sister (14ish) was what I'd call a "National Enquirer Christian," the type to believe that the return of Christ/The Apocalypse was going to happen next Tuesday during lunch hour. When I first me her she was talking about how the date that some blogger had predicted for the end had just passed, and that the blogger had said that only he and his wife had seen the events that were "the beginning of the end." She was all "Do you think he's telling the truth?"

/This wasn't Harold Camping, but someone so obscure that you'd have to go looking for him to find him
 
2012-02-23 01:36:27 PM

AmazinTim: Aarontology: yes, I know some RON PAUL supporters.

I know folks who are going to vote for Obama. Again.


Until the Republican party fields a competent candidate who isn't racist, bigoted in other ways, a chauvinist, religious fundamentalist and actually behaves as if he/she believes in responsible spending in government, Obama is my choice.
 
Displayed 50 of 457 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report