That sounds horribly farked up. Can anyone else with a better sense of finance explain this to me? Because I didn't get paid for a month and then I got asked to return salary I'd just get up and walk out.

What is the rationale for the EU forcing private sector wages downward?

(I already know the real reason, I just want to hear someone defend plutocracy.)

Maybe if a few paid their swimming pool tax, this all wouldn't have been necessary.

I'd be burning that motherfarker down.
As a civil servant asked to return a portion of my paycheck in addition to going without pay for a month, I'd hope they had a good insurance policy on whatever building I happened to be working in. And I wouldn't even be drunk yet.

Athens is going to be a crater before the month is over.

Well, greek public employees have been riding pretty high on the hog, "with salaries rising by an average of 30% since 2006." (new window)

This is moving back towards normal.

Umm... Is someone trying to start a civil war in Greece? It certainly looks that way.

really, forcing people to work, and having them PAY for it? what the hell are these people thinking?

HBK: Well, greek public employees have been riding pretty high on the hog, "with salaries rising by an average of 30% since 2006." (new window)

This is moving back towards normal.

Not starting a fight, but I only see these numbers as percentages gained or lost or as a part of GDP to show that it's bloated and inflated, and it feels very distractiony. What's their actual average salary in USD? Maybe by sector (education, etc)?

I really feel for the overpaid, underworked, and under-taxed Greeks. Truly the overworked, underpaid, and over taxed Germans should perpetually sustain their lifestyle.

They owe it to the Greeks for whatever.

/don't pay taxes for decades then skip one months wages. I'd imagine for most workers it still comes out to their advantage.

guess there's gonna be a walk off.

watson.t.hamster: I really feel for the overpaid, underworked, and under-taxed Greeks. Truly the overworked, underpaid, and over taxed Germans should perpetually sustain their lifestyle.

Greeks work harder than Germans (new window)

It's true that Germans and Greeks work very different amounts, but not in the way you expect. According to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, the average German worker put in 1,429 hours on the job in 2008. The average Greek worker put in 2,120 hours. In Spain, the average worker puts in 1,647 hours. In Italy, 1,802. The Dutch, by contrast, outdo even their Teutonic brethren in laziness, working a staggeringly low 1,389 hours per year.

A retroactive pay cut? They must be trying to finish off Athens.

MeinRS6: How about they let go the workers that they can't afford to pay?

They can always be hired back if Greece ever gets its act back together.


They do that in America (not sure where you're from). They fire the employees and then hire them back as contracts for less money, benefits & job security.

Personally, I would suggest against it .... as it SUCKS as the employee.

Call me crazy, but it looks like these policies are designed to tank the economy and cause civil unrest rather than the other way around. Cui bono?

K.B.O. Winston: Know how I know you don't listen to This American Life?

Because it's stupid and boring?

MeinRS6: How about they let go the workers that they can't afford to pay?

They can always be hired back if Greece ever gets its act back together.

I remember France having laws on the books that said the government is REQUIRED to get you a job. If that's the case with Greece, then they can't let those workers go, even if it would make business sense to do so.

Arkanaut: watson.t.hamster: I really feel for the overpaid, underworked, and under-taxed Greeks. Truly the overworked, underpaid, and over taxed Germans should perpetually sustain their lifestyle.

Greeks work harder than Germans (new window)

It's true that Germans and Greeks work very different amounts, but not in the way you expect. According to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, the average German worker put in 1,429 hours on the job in 2008. The average Greek worker put in 2,120 hours. In Spain, the average worker puts in 1,647 hours. In Italy, 1,802. The Dutch, by contrast, outdo even their Teutonic brethren in laziness, working a staggeringly low 1,389 hours per year.

I don't doubt that the Greeks log more hours officially. But given that corruption is assumed in their society (hence the whole not paying their taxes thing) I take issue with A) saying they are actually working those hours (clock in at 9, go bang some tourists and get drunk on wine, clock out at 6, I've worked 9 hours. Impressive, I think I'll take the rest of the week off, except 15 minutes per day to sign in) and B) that while they are actually at work they are as hard working and dedicated as the Germans.

I'd rather have someone who actually works for 30 out of 30 hours per week than someone who "works" 40+ hours and gets maybe 5 hours worth of work done.

Germans and other northern Europeans are known for their diligence and industry. Mediterraneans? They're known for art, and wine, and culture. Not hard work.

Either way the Germans have a similar style of social safety network but they've been paying for it. Why should they be on the hook for people who don't feel that need?

K.B.O. Winston: watson.t.hamster: I really feel for the overpaid, underworked, and under-taxed Greeks. Truly the overworked, underpaid, and over taxed Germans should perpetually sustain their lifestyle.

They owe it to the Greeks for whatever.

/don't pay taxes for decades then skip one months wages. I'd imagine for most workers it still comes out to their advantage.

Know how I know you don't listen to This American Life?

/lots of employees in Greece have been working for months without any pay
//austerity != slavery

Nearly all have been working without paying their fair share of taxes for years.

They did this to themselves.

/slavery wasn't voluntary.
//why should taxpayers in other countries be forced to work for the benefits of the greeks? They didn't get any say in the internal workings of that state. Why should they be on the hook?

watson.t.hamster: I don't doubt that the Greeks log more hours officially. But given that corruption is assumed in their society (hence the whole not paying their taxes thing) I take issue with A) saying they are actually working those hours (clock in at 9, go bang some tourists and get drunk on wine, clock out at 6, I've worked 9 hours. Impressive, I think I'll take the rest of the week off, except 15 minutes per day to sign in) and B) that while they are actually at work they are as hard working and dedicated as the Germans.

Somehow, I don't think these are the same people who are going to work for no pay or negative pay.

Dude.

Assholerey like this -- demanding onerous obligations on generations of people -- leads to



I'm not farking joking.

s1ugg0: That sounds horribly farked up. Can anyone else with a better sense of finance explain this to me? Because I didn't get paid for a month and then I got asked to return salary I'd just get up and walk out.

That would be a tough pill to swallow. But hypothetically, (just hypothetically - im trying to figure this out myslef) if you were an employee, and your marketable skillset would be worth $50,000 a year, and you were making $75,000 with a pension that has a yearly value of 20,000 and benefits that arent being offered currently, would you just get up and walk out over a months salary?

Its the only way I can see them not doing exactly what you say. They must be getting a fairly substantial premium over their value. However, they just might not have a choice as a society.

Branch Dravidian: μολὼν λαβέ!

Occupy Labia?

/My Greek is a little rusty...

Arkanaut: watson.t.hamster: I don't doubt that the Greeks log more hours officially. But given that corruption is assumed in their society (hence the whole not paying their taxes thing) I take issue with A) saying they are actually working those hours (clock in at 9, go bang some tourists and get drunk on wine, clock out at 6, I've worked 9 hours. Impressive, I think I'll take the rest of the week off, except 15 minutes per day to sign in) and B) that while they are actually at work they are as hard working and dedicated as the Germans.

Somehow, I don't think these are the same people who are going to work for no pay or negative pay.

Government workers being the very definition of diligent.

if these government workers were found to be cheating on taxes, then yes they deserve this.

but it should not be applied with a broad stroke, as many Greek government employees not been paid for weeks as it is.

as for the mininum wage cuts: well average market wages have dropped a lot in the past two years (close to 20%), I guess the mininum wage cut is to adjust to be in line with the market. but I can't find much of a reason why Greece created a second tier for younger workers that is 15% lower.