The worst part about it is that when the new elections roll around, all the current guys who are passing these austerity measures will be voted out and the new guys will simply repeal them.

I sure wish I could retire young, get full retirement and not pay taxes.

Backwards Cornfield Races: The worst part about it is that when the new elections roll around, all the current guys who are passing these austerity measures will be voted out and the new guys will simply repeal them.

I sure wish I could retire young, get full retirement and not pay taxes.

Hence the rioting. These people have been babied from cradle to grave by government and they're pissed off that the party is over.

/What do you do when you can't buy another bottle of booze or borrow another buck from the bank??? You bust the joint out.

Backwards Cornfield Races: The worst part about it is that when the new elections roll around, all the current guys who are passing these austerity measures will be voted out and the new guys will simply repeal them.

All major (if not most) parties were forced by IMF and the EU to get behind the law, not just the ones in government.

The Greek people can only be exploited by the loan sharks so much before things are going to go to shiat. If the bondholders are smart, they'll walk away before the lynchings begin.

This whole situation is just a clusterfark of inimaginable magnitude. The EU thought it could make a monetary union without all the regulatory requirements for such a thing to work properly. The Greek government thought that it could spend ass loads of money with no consideration as to how they would make any money. The banks thought that Greece's policies were totally fresh apparently and threw their money at them to continue said practices. The Greek people collected benefits and their government rents and were completely satisfied.

Backwards Cornfield Races: The worst part about it is that when the new elections roll around, all the current guys who are passing these austerity measures will be voted out and the new guys will simply repeal them.

I sure wish I could retire young, get full retirement and not pay taxes.

Except, Greece had to agree to keep the terms of the bailout deal even if the government changed. Just to make sure there's no doublecross, the deal also says that lenders will have the right to seize the gold reserves in the Bank of Greece.

The biggest losers here are and should be the banks. The Greek budget issues didn't just appear over night and have been an issue for years. The banks kept financing bad Greek debt, yet everyone is fussing at the Greeks.

Give an addict money and bankrupt yourself, who is at fault? Argentina and Iceland both told the banks to f-off in different ways and are doing well for themselves; way better than Greece.

they got burned on a massive forex deal. they should have known better. no sympathy.

looks like the riots have done in this government building. maybe they can borrow some more money to rebuild it.

That's what happens when you loan from capitalism to pay for socialism.

Foxxinnia: This whole situation is just a clusterfark of inimaginable magnitude. The EU thought it could make a monetary union without all the regulatory requirements for such a thing to work properly. The Greek government thought that it could spend ass loads of money with no consideration as to how they would make any money. The banks thought that Greece's policies were totally fresh apparently and threw their money at them to continue said practices. The Greek people collected benefits and their government rents and were completely satisfied.

And then...?

jjorsett: Backwards Cornfield Races: The worst part about it is that when the new elections roll around, all the current guys who are passing these austerity measures will be voted out and the new guys will simply repeal them.

I sure wish I could retire young, get full retirement and not pay taxes.

Except, Greece had to agree to keep the terms of the bailout deal even if the government changed. Just to make sure there's no doublecross, the deal also says that lenders will have the right to seize the gold reserves in the Bank of Greece.

So, no backsies?

The "american dollar zone" works because the productive north is willing to subsidize the less productive south and there is a lot of labor mobility

The euro zone benefits the north by making their currency and therefore exports cheaper, go back to the deutschmark and drachma and exchange rates will make exports from countries like Germany much more expensive and hurt employment while making countries like Greece more competitive, people wouldn't just have to work they would be able to.

Two choices: subsidize the less productive areas or tell the alabama's to fark off and deal with the effects of currency appreciation.

// yes this is deliberately phrased to troll american southerners

maq0r: That's what happens when you loan from capitalism to pay for socialism.

fix old. no new.

God, the level of discourse on fark is approaching tea party levels.

Brontes: Give an addict money and bankrupt yourself, who is at fault? Argentina and Iceland both told the banks to f-off in different ways and are doing well for themselves; way better than Greece.

^ THIS ^

There are no guarantees with investments. You make a bad bet, it's YOUR loss. You do NOT get to exploit an entire country to get your money back. Not yours.

winterwhile: So

Liberals running out of other folks money

runs as a re-run?????? soon to be America's fate after Obama?

Maybe some nations should have listened when Margaret Thatcher spoke.


/our day is coming.

Brontes: Give an addict money and bankrupt yourself, who is at fault? Argentina and Iceland both told the banks to f-off in different ways and are doing well for themselves; way better than Greece.

Dunno for sure about Argentina, but Iceland was not up to Greece levels of government overspending.

There are no heroes in the Greek situation, and a LOT of bad guys.

JammerJim: Brontes: Give an addict money and bankrupt yourself, who is at fault? Argentina and Iceland both told the banks to f-off in different ways and are doing well for themselves; way better than Greece.

Dunno for sure about Argentina, but Iceland was not up to Greece levels of government overspending.

There are no heroes in the Greek situation, and a LOT of bad guys.

Yeah, but Greece only got there because people were financing them. This would have happened a while ago but not on this scale. Now, instead of banks eating 100% of their bad investments, they are strong arming the Greeks to do it. Really strong-arming, like breaking kneecaps in the parking long. Greeks should have just restarted and made the banks eat a shiat sandwich like they deserved.

Brontes: JammerJim: Brontes: Give an addict money and bankrupt yourself, who is at fault? Argentina and Iceland both told the banks to f-off in different ways and are doing well for themselves; way better than Greece.

Dunno for sure about Argentina, but Iceland was not up to Greece levels of government overspending.

There are no heroes in the Greek situation, and a LOT of bad guys.

Yeah, but Greece only got there because people were financing them. This would have happened a while ago but not on this scale. Now, instead of banks eating 100% of their bad investments, they are strong arming the Greeks to do it. Really strong-arming, like breaking kneecaps in the parking long. Greeks should have just restarted and made the banks eat a shiat sandwich like they deserved.

There's one important point with regards to simply defaulting as a government, which is what you're suggesting:

A lot of that money is owed to Greek citizens; all countries have a plurality (or outright majority, but I can't be bothered to check how many are which) of their bonds owned by their own citizens. An across-the-board default would destroy the savings of anyone whose savings are primarily in bonds--and since this strategy is recommended for mostly older people, it'd hose the social safety net worse than ever.

If you default only on the banks, do you think those banks are going to just say, "Oh well, better luck next time!" or do you think they're going to demand punitive terms on any future agreements? That ignores the fact that a default would require leaving the EU outright, which would not be easy to sell to the voters.

Greece is basically hosed with no good options left due to government overspending creating an impossible level of debt once the economy crashed. Taking the terms offered by the EU banks and IMF suck, no question about it, but the alternatives are mostly worse for quality of life and even less politically palatable.

I've seen predictions that there's no way Greece will be able to lower their debt exposure to 120% by 2020, or even meet the interim goals before that, meaning another round of bailouts/haircuts/austerity measures would be needed. Meanwhile, forced austerity on Greece itself has predictably resulted in falling revenue taken in by the government, making the situation worse, and at that point the IMF banks force even more austerity measures on them.

The reason why the rest of the Euro countries don't want Greece to default is because their banks hold too much Greek debt, and if they default all those CDS notes sold to insure that debt become due immediately. Except, the notes were leveraged at a rate of 5x and even 10x the worth of the debt, through multiple bundling and trading and selling between investors and the banks themselves. That's why the banks are so desperate to keep handing Greece money; the alternative to them is too devastating to consider.

Backwards Cornfield Races: The worst part about it is that when the new elections roll around, all the current guys who are passing these austerity measures will be voted out and the new guys will simply repeal them.

I sure wish I could retire young, get full retirement and not pay taxes.

the banks control Greece, not the government.

The problem with Greece is they are comparing EU imposed austerity to the time before the debt crisis. When in reality they need to think what default imposed austerity would be like.

I get all this austerity is bad stuff, no argument. But what is the other option? There is no more borrowing, the Troika imposed deals are the most generous the Greeks can hope for in ANY circumstance. I understand the anger, but not at the outside world, it should be aimed squarely at those Greeks in power.

Housing loans, student loans, car loans, government loans, are all farked. Maybe just, maybe, it's the banks and not the people.

JammerJim: Brontes: Give an addict money and bankrupt yourself, who is at fault? Argentina and Iceland both told the banks to f-off in different ways and are doing well for themselves; way better than Greece.

Dunno for sure about Argentina, but Iceland was not up to Greece levels of government overspending.

There are no heroes in the Greek situation, and a LOT of bad guys.

Argentina nationalized private pension funds to meet debt goals. how so? after nationalization, it wrote off the value of their large government bond holdings, farking over thousands of retirees.

can people please, PLEASE stop using Argentina as an example of sound fiscal management?

TrainingWheelsNeeded: Backwards Cornfield Races: The worst part about it is that when the new elections roll around, all the current guys who are passing these austerity measures will be voted out and the new guys will simply repeal them.

I sure wish I could retire young, get full retirement and not pay taxes.

the banks control Greece, not the government.

if the banks control Greece, why are they being forced to take 70% losses on their holdings by the Greek government?