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(All Dead Mormons Are Now Gay)   Has a Mormon posthumously baptized someone you know, love or respect? Now you can fight back by posthumously "choosing" homosexuality for one of their loved ones   (alldeadmormonsarenowgay.com) divider line 378
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14136 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2012 at 11:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-22 01:59:59 PM

chewielouie: You see? Homosexuality is a choice. Either you choose to be one yourself, or someone else can choose it for you.


You know, I'm really disappointed that you didn't get more bites. You may have lacked a little flair, but I think that your fundamentals were sound.
 
2012-02-22 02:05:47 PM

ursomniac: Crotchrocket Slim: ursomniac: In terms of the "what harm can it do"...

I wonder - given the degree to which religious institutions are inflicting themselves on the civil courts (where basically "If I don't get what I want then you're oppressing my religion" has become an actionable claim), it wouldn't surprise me that this might not be used against fallen Mormons, their families, etc. as a way to make a claim for someone's estate under the guise of "back tithes"...

... after all if Anne Frank is now Mormon in good standing, shouldn't 10% of her estate (from the sales of her diary alone) go to the LDS as is required by the tenets of their faith for their members?

After all - we're talking about a religion that has had Great Revelations in the past that Blacks were suddenly able to be "real" church members, and that it was OK to drink Coca-Cola around SLC (after the LDS purchased stock in the company). What's the prevent the current or future "Grand Poobah" of the LDS to claim a divine revelation from God that Anne Frank HAD accepted her Mormonism from the grave, and use this as a basis for making a claim to part of her estate?

Tithe requirements are not legal requirements nor do they have any influence on estate inheritance, unless a will specifically spells out that the money is to go to whatever institution the tither wants it to go to. A Mormon church trying to use posthumous baptism is such a way would get laughed out of court, I'm sure even in Utah.

Let's not forget that the Frank estate was not located in the US and not subject to US law either. I'm guessing it's been long divided up among her surviving relatives and descendents as well at this point.

OK - leaving aside the international boundaries --- (and that fact that her father was - IIRC - her only surviving relative - she had no descendants, obviously) --- it wasn't too long ago where I think many people would have said that someone trying to argue in court that fertilized eggs not yet implanted ...


Legally speaking one's cousins etc. are one's indirect descendents, only one's children and degrees of children are considered direct descendents. TMYN

Anyway in the United States we have this thing called the First Amendment that keeps religious institutions from infiltrating the government (okay, it was designed originally to keep government out of organized religion but it has the opposite effect as well), and until that erodes you're just discussing some completely fictional situation in a nationstate that doesn't presently exist. Even devout Mormons need to will 10% of their estate to their Church or otherwise it automatically goes to their legal heirs; churches get exactly zero legal claim to that inheritance without a will.

Anyway, even if the Mormon church bought up a judge, any decision by him/her would be killed pretty effectively on appeal. I think many states even have anti-SLAP laws that would allow an individual to sue a super-rich church for legal expenses in such a situation.
 
2012-02-22 02:06:28 PM
Trivia Jockey and Crotchrocket Slim,

I know you're right. It's just my wishful thinking that people didn't get so heated over religions. Imagine it...
 
2012-02-22 02:10:22 PM

vrax: Yeah, but with a loaner you have to give it back when you leave, which you will, because it's a Mormon club. Snoooooooze!


Not everyone is onto 80s dance music and eternal boot knocking, but them little old Mormon ladies are going to do their part to make sure that those that are have the tie for it.
 
2012-02-22 02:10:48 PM

PsiChick: Don't Troll Me Bro!: How about we don't stoop to that level. That's just petty.

Yeah, I really thought this was funny...up until I actually thought about it.

No. It's not. It's petty and unethical. They sincerely believe this, and mocking those beliefs is wrong.

/Damnit, it was funny.


Just because someone sincerely believes something does mean that it is somehow above mockery. If you sincerely believe the entire Xenu mythology from Scientology you probably deserve to be mocked and mocked again.
 
2012-02-22 02:11:17 PM
Happy Trails George W. Romney!
 
2012-02-22 02:12:07 PM

kibblesnbits: Trivia Jockey and Crotchrocket Slim,

I know you're right. It's just my wishful thinking that people didn't get so heated over religions. Imagine it...


I kind of see the LDS here "poking a grumpy bear" when it comes to this sort of thing. Personally I think one of their "prophets" should have a "revelation" for the Church that one need not be baptized on the Earthly realm but could also be baptized in the afterlife, so no need to piss off the nonbelievers with this when Adolf could realize that Jews were people too and that this Smith fellow was onto something on his own. It's not like Mormonism isn't already the target of fairly undeserved scorn in US society.
 
2012-02-22 02:14:47 PM
GalFriday:

I am an excomminucated Mormon. They kicked me out of the church because I didn't think that one of my friends should be sent to the "beat the gay out of you camp". Anyway, having been around the LDS church my entire life -- I even some FLDS (polygies) relatives that live on compounds and the whole mormon family tree and everything -- I have to say that your explanation of the LDS church & mormons is best that I have ever read.


Thanks! :)
 
2012-02-22 02:19:01 PM

meanmutton: And it will affect them exactly as much as their post-death "baptism" will affect Helen Keller.


You *do* know that this is a joke, right? No one actually believes they are turning dead Mormons gay with this website...
 
2012-02-22 02:22:22 PM

Xenomech: You *do* know that this is a joke, right? No one actually believes they are turning dead Mormons gay with this website...


It's real to me, goddammit!
 
2012-02-22 02:24:28 PM
PsiChick: They sincerely believe this, and mocking those beliefs is wrong.
No, actually, mocking stupid beliefs is pretty much a time honored tradition and one way to make idiots stop believing something stupid. The other, of course, involves physical violence, and wars have been fought over much less than what the Mormons are doing here. They're getting off pretty lightly if all they get is some mocking. A few hundred years ago, they would have likely been killed by people who believe their sky wizard's traditions are better.

"Because it's my religion" isn't a magic cloak that makes everything you do o.k., by the way.
 
2012-02-22 02:30:20 PM

OhLuverly: quoted from the other thread on this subject because it seems to apply here as well

"Posthumous baptism does not make you Mormon anymore than missionaries knocking on your door make you Mormon. That's all posthumous baptism is. Mormon's believe that you are given a chance after you die to again accept the gospel, however baptism is a physical requirement to continue on. So you can basically be chillin' at the pearly gates but can't go past even if you accept the gospel because you weren't baptized however someone can be baptized for you in proxy in this situation. It gives people the chance to accept the gospel and go on if they so choose in the afterlife.(You still have a choice, you can choose to stay exactly where you are if you want) The names are recorded on the rolls so hypothetically they are only done once (system needs work.) They however are not recorded as being Mormon, simply that the offer was made to them. Just like the missionaries record people they talk to. It basically boils down to Mormons want everyone to be able to go to heaven. They want everyone to know God and Christ and be in their presence and they are willing to suffer the social outrage and name calling to achieve this goal for others."


...I weep for humanity that people actually believe this.
 
2012-02-22 02:36:42 PM

vrax: PsiChick: Don't Troll Me Bro!: How about we don't stoop to that level. That's just petty.

Yeah, I really thought this was funny...up until I actually thought about it.

No. It's not. It's petty and unethical. They sincerely believe this, and mocking those beliefs is wrong.

/Damnit, it was funny.

Just because someone sincerely believes something does mean that it is somehow above mockery. If you sincerely believe the entire Xenu mythology from Scientology you probably deserve to be mocked and mocked again.


No, it actually does. Sitting someone down and explaining things kindly to them is fine, but mocking people for deeply held beliefs is nothing more than being a dick. I mean, how would you feel if one of those Xenu-believers was mocking you for believing the obviously-false nonsense of atheism\Christianity\whatever? Sure, you probably would just mock them back, but this isn't first grade, and we're all better than that.
 
2012-02-22 02:41:08 PM
This "HAHA I'm baptising you in my mind!" story has to be THE most juvenile thing to be done and discussed by grown-ups. Ever.
 
2012-02-22 02:42:00 PM

LadyBelgara: OhLuverly: quoted from the other thread on this subject because it seems to apply here as well

"Posthumous conscription does not make you a soldier in Satan's army anymore than Satanists knocking on your door make you a soldier in Satan's army. That's all posthumous conscription is. Satanists believe that you are given a chance after you die to again accept the unholy power of Satan, however conscription is a physical requirement to continue on. So you can basically be chillin' at the pearly gates but can't go past even if you accept the forked tongue kiss of His Infernal Majesty because you weren't conscripted however someone can be conscripted for you in proxy in this situation. It gives people the chance to accept Lucifer's malevolent enema and go on if they so choose in the afterlife.(You still have a choice, you can choose to stay exactly where you are if you want) The names are recorded in the Necronomicon so hypothetically they are only done once (system needs work.) They however are not recorded as being Satanists, simply that the offer was made to them. Just like the Satanists record people they curse. It basically boils down to Satanists want everyone to be able to go to war with heaven. They want everyone to know God and Christ are the eternal enemy and be in their presence when Lucifer smites them with his pitchfork, and they are willing to suffer the social outrage and name calling to achieve this goal for others."

...I weep for humanity that people actually believe this.


Just felt the need to make those edits. Reads like a sequel to Good Omens now.
 
2012-02-22 02:44:45 PM

PsiChick: No, it actually does. Sitting someone down and explaining things kindly to them is fine, but mocking people for deeply held beliefs is nothing more than being a dick. I mean, how would you feel if one of those Xenu-believers was mocking you for believing the obviously-false nonsense of atheism\Christianity\whatever? Sure, you probably would just mock them back, but this isn't first grade, and we're all better than that.


The entire history of humanity says you're wrong. See also: The Crusades.
 
2012-02-22 02:50:34 PM
214 posts with no mention of Glenn Beck. I am incredulous.
 
2012-02-22 02:50:37 PM

Dr. Whoof: PsiChick: No, it actually does. Sitting someone down and explaining things kindly to them is fine, but mocking people for deeply held beliefs is nothing more than being a dick. I mean, how would you feel if one of those Xenu-believers was mocking you for believing the obviously-false nonsense of atheism\Christianity\whatever? Sure, you probably would just mock them back, but this isn't first grade, and we're all better than that.

The entire history of humanity says you're wrong. See also: The Crusades.


The point of being moral isn't to live down to history. It's to move beyond it and be good people despite it.
 
2012-02-22 02:51:35 PM
Joseph Smith and his covered "but no body else can see them" golden tablets.
 
2012-02-22 02:52:12 PM
Orson Scott Card

* click *
 
2012-02-22 03:06:55 PM

culebra: trappedspirit: culebra: That coward David Lopan: Aeon Rising: Serious question: If you don't believe it is real thing, why do you care? If you do believe it is real... doesn't that make them right?

Claim all my ancestors are gay, mormon egyptians with red hear... who gives a rat's ass?

Prance in a circle in your living room and claim the entire world is where god's gas meets the devil's lighter for all I care. If it makes you happy, do it.

"oh yea? well YOUR ancestor is a stupid poo poo head"
"is not!"
"is too times infinity forever"

who is the jackass? EVERONE!


HEY, EVERYBODY! COME TAKE A LOOK! THIS GUY IS BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE!

[i0.kym-cdn.com image 640x480]

Well I'm glad you found a way to feel superior to them all

What are you even talking about?


I think he was refering to the first guy. Not our incredibly witty and well thought out responses.
 
2012-02-22 03:09:07 PM

LadyBelgara: OhLuverly: quoted from the other thread on this subject because it seems to apply here as well

"Posthumous baptism does not make you Mormon anymore than missionaries knocking on your door make you Mormon. That's all posthumous baptism is. Mormon's believe that you are given a chance after you die to again accept the gospel, however baptism is a physical requirement to continue on. So you can basically be chillin' at the pearly gates but can't go past even if you accept the gospel because you weren't baptized however someone can be baptized for you in proxy in this situation. It gives people the chance to accept the gospel and go on if they so choose in the afterlife.(You still have a choice, you can choose to stay exactly where you are if you want) The names are recorded on the rolls so hypothetically they are only done once (system needs work.) They however are not recorded as being Mormon, simply that the offer was made to them. Just like the missionaries record people they talk to. It basically boils down to Mormons want everyone to be able to go to heaven. They want everyone to know God and Christ and be in their presence and they are willing to suffer the social outrage and name calling to achieve this goal for others."

...I weep for humanity that people actually believe this.


I'm ticked off that they act on it against common decency, contractual obligaion, and the families' wishes.

/Yah, I'm posting. Fiesta de los Vaqueros is upon us.
//Going to the parade?
 
2012-02-22 03:09:28 PM

gerrymander: This is neither appropriate nor funny. It is only immature and intolerant. Just stop.


No, this is satire and completely appropriate.

Satire is holding a slightly twisted mirror up to life to get the audience to reflect on things that people are complacent about, that go unnoticed, or are otherwise taken for granted. Satire need not be funny to be valid and effective. Humor is often used "to make the pill go down easier" but is not required. The Supreme Court has even ruled that failed attempts at humorous satire are still protected speech.

In this case, the Mormon church is offering the deceased what they view as a better way of afterlife, completely ignorant of how insulting and offending this is to the families that know how repulsive this would be to their dearly departed. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with being gay. I wouldn't say it's better that being straight, but how could giving dead people the option be a bad thing. This satire has the potential to open people's eyes as to how mortally offensive their good intentions can be and perhaps they'll stop. Failing that, maybe third parties will be less likely to support institutionalized insensitivity.

Freedom of religion is also freedom from religion.
 
2012-02-22 03:11:33 PM
www.myfacewhen.net

It starts with dead gay Mormons, but where dose it end?

Next, soon every dead gay Mormons will converted to dead gay bestiality loving Mormans!
 
2012-02-22 03:12:05 PM

PsiChick: vrax: PsiChick: Don't Troll Me Bro!: How about we don't stoop to that level. That's just petty.

Yeah, I really thought this was funny...up until I actually thought about it.

No. It's not. It's petty and unethical. They sincerely believe this, and mocking those beliefs is wrong.

/Damnit, it was funny.

Just because someone sincerely believes something does mean that it is somehow above mockery. If you sincerely believe the entire Xenu mythology from Scientology you probably deserve to be mocked and mocked again.

No, it actually does. Sitting someone down and explaining things kindly to them is fine, but mocking people for deeply held beliefs is nothing more than being a dick. I mean, how would you feel if one of those Xenu-believers was mocking you for believing the obviously-false nonsense of atheism\Christianity\whatever? Sure, you probably would just mock them back, but this isn't first grade, and we're all better than that.


Oh, I'm all for being very respectful if and when appropriate. However, make your beliefs public, as so many have an impossible time not doing, and you open yourself to whatever may come. I would really love to see your calm, kind, conversation rebuking Xenu, though. If I publicly declared that I worship the all powerful Pony and have magically converted everyone into little prancing pony apostles, I would expect to hear about it, especially from Farkers.
 
2012-02-22 03:13:01 PM
Porter Rockwell is now fabulous.
 
2012-02-22 03:14:50 PM

PsiChick: The point of being moral isn't to live down to history. It's to move beyond it and be good people despite it.


Ah, the Historian's Fallacy. Love seeing that trotted out.

The Mormons are doing something they know causes emotional distress and harm. Should we turn a blind eye to that? They KNOW what they are doing is hurting people and they continue to do it. Is it moral to do nothing?

This is, as said above, satire. That's about the least that could be done. My point is that wars have been fought for less than this. So what do you suggest? Telling the victims to "get over it"?
 
2012-02-22 03:15:18 PM
dl.dropbox.com
 
2012-02-22 03:19:34 PM

funk_soul_bubby: I got no problem with them. They helped me with a lot of genealogy research.


I'm rather mixed on them. I really dislike what they've done to the BSA, but they are helping me acquire my CDIB...
 
2012-02-22 03:20:56 PM
I think I'm going to buy a bunch of stars, get them registered online, and charge those gay mormons rent in the afterlife.

By the way, what's up with Joseph Smith always having some gay necktie on in portraits. Can the Church of Homosexuality retroactively change the dead Mormons' fashion sense?www.pbs.org
 
2012-02-22 03:23:12 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: It's not like Mormonism isn't already the target of fairly undeserved scorn in US society.


Then why actively seek to invite the deserved variety?
 
2012-02-22 03:38:43 PM

vrax: PsiChick: vrax: PsiChick: Don't Troll Me Bro!: How about we don't stoop to that level. That's just petty.

Yeah, I really thought this was funny...up until I actually thought about it.

No. It's not. It's petty and unethical. They sincerely believe this, and mocking those beliefs is wrong.

/Damnit, it was funny.

Just because someone sincerely believes something does mean that it is somehow above mockery. If you sincerely believe the entire Xenu mythology from Scientology you probably deserve to be mocked and mocked again.

No, it actually does. Sitting someone down and explaining things kindly to them is fine, but mocking people for deeply held beliefs is nothing more than being a dick. I mean, how would you feel if one of those Xenu-believers was mocking you for believing the obviously-false nonsense of atheism\Christianity\whatever? Sure, you probably would just mock them back, but this isn't first grade, and we're all better than that.

Oh, I'm all for being very respectful if and when appropriate. However, make your beliefs public, as so many have an impossible time not doing, and you open yourself to whatever may come. I would really love to see your calm, kind, conversation rebuking Xenu, though. If I publicly declared that I worship the all powerful Pony and have magically converted everyone into little prancing pony apostles, I would expect to hear about it, especially from Farkers.


Sure. But this is a bit beyond just words--this is a tit-for-tat gesture which achieves nothing other than mocking something they're clearly considering important. I'd just settle for enforcing the 'no converting Holocaust victims' with a nice hefty fine.

Dr. Whoof: PsiChick: The point of being moral isn't to live down to history. It's to move beyond it and be good people despite it.

Ah, the Historian's Fallacy. Love seeing that trotted out.

The Mormons are doing something they know causes emotional distress and harm. Should we turn a blind eye to that? They KNOW what they are doing is hurting people and they continue to do it. Is it moral to do nothing?

This is, as said above, satire. That's about the least that could be done. My point is that wars have been fought for less than this. So what do you suggest? Telling the victims to "get over it"?


See above. A nice hefty fine should work.

/Well, it's a basic suggestion, but something along those lines.
 
2012-02-22 03:41:28 PM

PsiChick: Sure. But this is a bit beyond just words--this is a tit-for-tat gesture which achieves nothing other than mocking something they're clearly considering important. I'd just settle for enforcing the 'no converting Holocaust victims' with a nice hefty fine.


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
 
2012-02-22 03:48:19 PM

PsiChick: They sincerely believe this, and mocking those beliefs is wrong.


Mormons doing this is mocking the beliefs of every religious non-mormon they've baptized.
 
2012-02-22 03:53:46 PM

Dr. Whoof: PsiChick: Sure. But this is a bit beyond just words--this is a tit-for-tat gesture which achieves nothing other than mocking something they're clearly considering important. I'd just settle for enforcing the 'no converting Holocaust victims' with a nice hefty fine.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"


They're altering historical documents. Secular interest.

namegoeshere: PsiChick: They sincerely believe this, and mocking those beliefs is wrong.

Mormons doing this is mocking the beliefs of every religious non-mormon they've baptized.


Yes. That is wrong. To retaliate in kind is also wrong. Especially since we have a secular interest in stopping it...
 
2012-02-22 03:53:58 PM

Xenomech: meanmutton: And it will affect them exactly as much as their post-death "baptism" will affect Helen Keller.

You *do* know that this is a joke, right? No one actually believes they are turning dead Mormons gay with this website...


Awww...
 
2012-02-22 03:54:52 PM

SkunkWerks: Then why actively seek to invite the deserved variety?


Martyrdom possibly. However a more likely reason is this ritual's role in a relatively new religion's theology. Joseph Smith had a message to spread that two thousand years of Christians had been doing it wrong. The problem was recent converts had Ma's and Pa's and brothers and sisters that had died before they could be told. We're not talking about some tribesperson doin' an ooga booga dance hundreds of years ago; Ma and Pa Young or Smith weren't gonna be with them in the great beyond, cuz well, they were shiat outta luck.
Well, in that case the Mormons came up with baptism of the dead, thereby upgrading their relatives to Heaven 2.0. On to the next new revelation to keep the people happy.
 
2012-02-22 03:59:59 PM

PsiChick: namegoeshere: PsiChick: They sincerely believe this, and mocking those beliefs is wrong.

Mormons doing this is mocking the beliefs of every religious non-mormon they've baptized.

Yes. That is wrong. To retaliate in kind is also wrong. Especially since we have a secular interest in stopping it...


Sometimes responding in kind is the only means of demonstrating the idiocy and offensiveness of the original action.

People have been asking them nicely to knock this shiat off for a very long time. They haven't listened yet.
 
2012-02-22 04:03:52 PM

PsiChick: They're altering historical documents. Secular interest.


No, they are not altering anything.
They have a gigantic list that they compiled.
It has various information about a person, i.e. date of birth, date of death, children, spouses, etc.
They also have a box* that they check for the various rituals that they consider necessary for salvation.
Once some person vicariously performs these ceremonies, they check the box.

* I don't know if it's an actually box, but they record it in some way.
 
2012-02-22 04:06:24 PM

namegoeshere: PsiChick: namegoeshere: PsiChick: They sincerely believe this, and mocking those beliefs is wrong.

Mormons doing this is mocking the beliefs of every religious non-mormon they've baptized.

Yes. That is wrong. To retaliate in kind is also wrong. Especially since we have a secular interest in stopping it...

Sometimes responding in kind is the only means of demonstrating the idiocy and offensiveness of the original action.

People have been asking them nicely to knock this shiat off for a very long time. They haven't listened yet.


So we attach a fine or something. This still isn't the best course of action.

Sticky Hands: PsiChick: They're altering historical documents. Secular interest.

No, they are not altering anything.
They have a gigantic list that they compiled.
It has various information about a person, i.e. date of birth, date of death, children, spouses, etc.
They also have a box* that they check for the various rituals that they consider necessary for salvation.
Once some person vicariously performs these ceremonies, they check the box.

* I don't know if it's an actually box, but they record it in some way.


They're also trying to alter the official religion stated of the Holocaust victims everywhere, not just their personal lists.
 
rpm
2012-02-22 04:08:16 PM

namegoeshere: People have been asking them nicely to knock this shiat off for a very long time. They haven't listened yet.


And not so nicely. They agreed in 1995 to stop doing it for Jews, period. Not sure if that was a court case or some sort of contract.
 
rpm
2012-02-22 04:08:52 PM

PsiChick: So we attach a fine or something. This still isn't the best course of action.


Yes it is. Pointing and laughing does work.
 
2012-02-22 04:08:58 PM

PsiChick: They're also trying to alter the official religion stated of the Holocaust victims everywhere*, not just their personal lists.


*citation needed
 
2012-02-22 04:09:45 PM

PsiChick: So we attach a fine or something


Lol, how would that work, exactly?
 
2012-02-22 04:11:00 PM

James!: CatfoodSpork: I don't see why people who are not Mormons care. Since I don't believe their stupid religion, why should I believe their baptisms have any effect on anything?

I mean, yeah, it affects my opinion of Mormons, but it's not like that had a long way down to fall.

If I make up my own religion where anyone I look at is autoconverted (according to the tenets of CatfoodSporkism) that doesn't mean they will REALLY be stuck all eternity in CatfoodSporkism-Hell.

It's ghoulish and disrespectful of the dead.


THIS
 
2012-02-22 04:14:10 PM

corneliusfiddlebone: SkunkWerks: Then why actively seek to invite the deserved variety?

Martyrdom possibly. However a more likely reason is this ritual's role in a relatively new religion's theology. Joseph Smith had a message to spread that two thousand years of Christians had been doing it wrong. The problem was recent converts had Ma's and Pa's and brothers and sisters that had died before they could be told. We're not talking about some tribesperson doin' an ooga booga dance hundreds of years ago; Ma and Pa Young or Smith weren't gonna be with them in the great beyond, cuz well, they were shiat outta luck.
Well, in that case the Mormons came up with baptism of the dead, thereby upgrading their relatives to Heaven 2.0. On to the next new revelation to keep the people happy.


The thing is- as I understand it- this insanity wasn't even Smith's idea. It came after him.

I mean, I guess it's as valid as any man-made religion, in that sense, but still... seems like there's a lot more room to declare all of it a silly mistake. Hell, you'd figure polygamy would be a more sharply felt loss...

But then again, I am attempting to apply a sense of rationale to this, and I admit that here is my first mistake.
 
2012-02-22 04:16:21 PM

PsiChick: They're also trying to alter the official religion stated of the Holocaust victims everywhere, not just their personal lists.


Also 100%, completely, and in every way, wrong.
 
2012-02-22 04:19:26 PM

Non-evil Monkey: You know, I don't get this obsession with Mormon posthumous baptisms. True, it's an unusual practice, but it boils down to them formally acknowledging someone outside the faith is worthy of salvation. I don't see how that's somehow horribly disrespectful.

I might not believe that such baptisms are someone required for someone outside Mormonism to attain salvation. But I understand why they do it, and know they mean no harm by it. If a Mormon ever told me they were going to baptize my after I die, I'd probably consider it an honor that they viewed me as worthy of salvation, even if I don't believe in the actual power of posthumous baptisms.


They baptized Hitler. Your argument is invalid.
 
2012-02-22 04:27:06 PM

Backwards Cornfield Races: Tell me I'm not the only one that tries to get the neighborhood mormons to drink with me. I came pretty close last time


It's not hard if you get them on a one-to-one basis. It's only a problem when there are other mormons around.
 
2012-02-22 04:29:45 PM

OhLuverly: Theaetetus: OhLuverly: Theaetetus: Theaetetus:
Actually, reverse citation found.
Here's a screenshot of the record for Anne Frank (new window)
Apparently, they are not "not recorded as being Mormon, simply that the offer was made to them".

Ok just going off that link... if she died in 1945 and was baptized in 2012 it isn't hard to deduce she wasn't a member of the church but was done posthumously. That still does not answer the original question I know and as I said I'll actually work on getting documentation if you really want it.

Furthermore, this highlights the real problem with this practice... All it takes is for those dates to be omitted, and suddenly the Mormons are claiming Anne Frank was Mormon. And, give it a hundred years or more when records may be destroyed or lost, and suddenly the Mormons are claiming that the majority of victims in the Holocaust were Mormons.

Similarly, it may cause problems for any Jews who descend from these false Mormon-converts, since, for many Orthodox or Conservative Jews, a matrilineal break means that they're not really Jewish.

I understand the controversy, and yes that is a very real and very serious issue with the system. IIRC members are recorded differently but as I said I am not a member so I do not have access to the database to actually do a comparison of member vs posthumous profiles. You are correct in the fact that simply omitting dates can totally screw the whole thing up to give a skewed view of history and that would in fact be a travesty one I hope never occurs in their records or any recorded history. That is simply an issue with recorded history in general and not exclusive to one particular group of records. The most I can offer right now is to say this is (in my opinion) not some nefarious plot to convert all the masses against their will or to make it look as such, but to simply give everyone the chance to reach the highest levels of glory available to them.


It's designed so they can keep claiming to be the fastest growing religion. Pretty easy to swell your ranks with people who can't say no. But just keep apologizing away... I'm sure they appreciate it.
 
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