But below corporations.

Why would they change the classification of dolphins? I just don't see the porpoise.

There is some room for compromise, scientist.

Also,

"Man has always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much...the wheel, New York, wars and so on...while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man...for precisely the same reason."

This is going to piss off the great apes.

Also also,

I thought "non-human persons" in US law were corporations?

So, would that give dolphins rights like corporations do, like free speech?

Why not?

Corporations are people.

Fertilized eggs will soon be people.

they're including whales, so maybe 'cetaceans' would be more accurate than just dolphins.
dolphins are truly wonderful, but I bet there's an epic legal precedent set in calling them 'persons.'

If they're persons, does that mean we can marry them?

How did dolphins skip to the front of the line? Fish, please, there are "people" ahead of you.

If they count as people, presumably they must be held accountable for their actions then. Will they finally be brought to justice for dragging people underwater with their prehensile penises and raping them to death in caves?

mbillips: How did dolphins skip to the front of the line? FishFlipper, please, there are "people" ahead of you.

[habitsforsmartpeople.com image 299x299]

ftfm

I suspect that dolphins are indeed smarter than these particular "scientists".

Rude Turnip: If they count as people, presumably they must be held accountable for their actions then. Will they finally be brought to justice for dragging people underwater with their prehensile penises and raping them to death in caves?

Or the dolphins' shiats and giggles killing of porpoise

Slives: Where to politicians fall on this scale? And would we have to define Republicans and Democrats differently?

They don't. We're talking about persons, which requires having a soul. Politicians don't qualify. And no, there is no difference between the two. They're both evil.

Jake Havechek: This is going to piss off the great apes.

No, it isn't because despite how intelligent they are, they have absolutely no concept of personhood or dignity.

"non-human delicious persons"

I hope this is true LOVE Dolphins!!!!

They have been abused and taught to kill during world war 2 & the during Vietnam to keep divers from sneaking up on ships and shores.
Still to this day they are secretly trained for such things, then go hang with their friends and teach the same gross and killer behavior.
Humans have introduced the killer behavior to them.
Thank goodness most are still pure and as they have always been peaceful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin

/props to Dr. McNinja (new window)

KimNorth: Thank goodness most are still pure and as they have always been peaceful.

And by "peaceful" you mean "gang-rapey", right?

KimNorth: Humans have introduced the killer behavior to them.

Cetaceans are known for occasionally cut-throat behavior. Especially orcas. Orcas, as a species, tend to be amazingly sociopathic, and have been known to solicit human help in rounding up prey species. And those bastards are the only other predator of sperm whales. But even dolphins will occasionally just murder a shark for giggles. We give them a pass because dolphins seem to like people.

stevarooni: KimNorth: Thank goodness most are still pure and as they have always been peaceful.

And by "peaceful" you mean "gang-rapey", right?

Right, they are more like us then we thought a group of young male gangster dolphins will do this and kill things smaller than themselves sorta like the youth in the inter-cities.

For the most part they are good, just think how the human race is some good some bad as we are dealing with a intelligent think species.

Humans have introduced even more violent behavior to these mostly peaceful dolphins. We ruin everything we touch... ) :

Something something corporations.

/late to the thread

BurnShrike: If they're persons, does that mean we can marry them?

Not necessarily; it does mean they can contribute anonymously to super PACs

BurnShrike: Also also,

[upload.wikimedia.org image 270x444]

awesome books

Here's the session at which three scientists advocate for Cetacean personhood: Declaration of Rights for Cetaceans: Ethical and Policy Implications of Intelligence (new window)

Two of these people, Thomas White of Loyola Marymount University & Lori Marino of Emory University, have apparently been advocating for this for a few years: Link (new window) Link (new window)

Obligatory (new window)

Also obligatory.

"It's like a tree of life. On the very topmost branches, you have the Ignatowskis. Beneath them, you have the Riegers and the Nardos. Below that, you have your Bantas, apes, and gibbons. Below that, you have your lice, your pond scum, your Wheelers. You can't get lower than Wheelers."

"What about me, Louie?"

"I stand corrected."

KimNorth: I hope this is true LOVE Dolphins!!!!

They have been abused and taught to kill during world war 2 & the during Vietnam to keep divers from sneaking up on ships and shores.
Still to this day they are secretly trained for such things, then go hang with their friends and teach the same gross and killer behavior.
Humans have introduced the killer behavior to them.
Thank goodness most are still pure and as they have always been peaceful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin

You're projecting your wishful thinking onto the cetaceans. Dolphins and orcas are predators. They spend rather a lot of time killing things to eat, for one thing.

Dolphins have been known to murder porpoises, and orcas are just bastards to anything smaller than they are.

Nature is not pure. It is not innocent. Please understand, our tendencies toward cruelty and selfishness are natural traits. Humans are not somehow outside the natural cycle; we are in nature and of nature and everything we do is an expression of nature. Dolphins and whales were produced by the same natural laws that gave rise to us. It is not exceptional that they would be similarly flawed from an idealistic moral perspective.

so long and thanks for all the fish

BurnShrike: Also,

"Man has always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much...the wheel, New York, wars and so on...while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man...for precisely the same reason."

It's a fair point. We put a lot of effort in to developing a civilization that gives us the free time to . . . lounge around and do what we would have been doing without a civilization.

If we could find a way to live as hunter gathers but keep the medicine, clean water, booze, and guns in case some other apex predator get's too uppity that would be ideal.

In exchange will they promise to warn us about the highway coming through?

hillbillypharmacist: BurnShrike: If they're persons, does that mean we can marry them?

Or at least legally... you know.

hey, the Japanese can marry cartoon characters (and have)...

I agree with this. Anyone who's spent significant time around wild Dolphins understands that they are most definitely not just "dumb animals".

I'm willing to agree that any living thing that can put forth a reasoned argument for its own personhood, is indeed a person.

It's an issue of ego. If an animal demonstrates that it possesses an ego, then it should be respected as a separate being.

Feh. It's not "scientists", it's "3 scientists, 2 ethics professors, and 3 activists", otherwise known as the Helsinki Group. They put together, more than two years ago, this bizarre "declaration" that no one in their right mind backed, and they keep pushing it whenever they can, to attract publicity for it.

The idea that the article implies some form of scientific consensus is absurd. This group once again presented their "bill of rights" to a bunch of folks in public, to garner publicity and attention - but few are actually taking it seriously. Cetacean biologists, the folks whom I would be most inclined to listen to when it comes to cetacean biology, typically have this to say about it:

One expert biologist would, perhaps, agree. Paul Manger of Johannesburg's University of Witwatersrand, who was not at the conference in Helsinki, said many researchers had wrongly concluded that whales and dolphins were smart merely because they have large brains.

"There's nothing to separate them from other mammals - seals, lions or tigers," he told Reuters, adding that they had evolved big brains mainly to keep warm in the chilly waters.

It's dreck, plain and simple.

So, when does the Bible get translated into a bunch of clicks and squeals?