Many of the bill's supporters were apparently unaware of how invasive the procedure could be, one of the officials added.

Never heard of an internal ultrasound?

Lemme guess, "many of the bill's supporters" = "total sausagefest"

/Yeah, wild hunch.

this thread again? the last one hasn't even died yet

Diogenes: The degree of invasiveness is beside the point. It certainly makes the issue more poignant, but it shouldn't be required at all.

I guess it can be rationalized as a final confirmation that the fetus is actually early enough in development for the procedure to be legal. That doesn't require that the woman watch the ultrasound, though, her doctor could pretty easily tell her the results. And the usual method of doing the ultrasound through the abdominal wall is more than sufficient, I'd think.

McDonnell is a coward. He ran for governor as moderate Republican. Got into office and let his "OMG I'm oppressed" Catholic AG turn Virginia into Alabama in hopes of making it conservative again. All it did was piss off all the moderate voters.

That was a great piece on The Daily Show. And it leaves me wondering, once again, why they seem to be the only watchdog on American politics.

Fark It: I'm repeating this from a redlit thread:

Am I the only one wondering how they will enforce this? .

That's not the point. Requiring that doctor's carry out this procedure - even if the women don't want them to - is horrible. Whether or not the law is enforced regularly is not so much of a concern. If it's enforced once, that's once too often.

I have to pay extra for that kind of "service".

What I didn't understand was that the woman didn't even need to LOOK at the ultrasound. And technically, neither did the doctor. So..............

.......what was the point of the bill again?

/oh yeah, to demean, subjugate, and embarass women

"Post-rape vaginal probe bill"

2/10

Rachel Maddow had a good segment on this guy to open her show last night. Apparently this guy is on the 'short list' for the VP spot for most of the GOP candidates. This kind of legislation is something he's advocated for ever since writing a thesis at Regent in the 80s (it was called something else then)... so he's got this conundrum, sign something that takes a step towards the ultimate goals of your social agenda and probably make your palatability for the VP seat to bitter a pill to swallow, or veto something you really want to further your political career.

How many of the politicians supporting this would consider themselves pro small government?

My legislative program for dealing with the abortion debate:

1. Abortion is legal nationwide up to viability (6 months, mol)
2. No government money for it and no insurance requirement for it.
3. Minimize unwanted pregnancies by providing free birth control to everyone nationwide and federal expense.
4. Encourage domestic adoption by (a) increasing federal adoption tax credit to $25,000, which is close to the actual cost, and (b) making it easier to terminate parental rights of birth parents, particularly unidentified fathers.

All via federal legislation.

Post-rape, subby? The legislation says nothing about rape. It would apply to all women.

Trans Vaginal Ultrasound is the name of my Esquivel tribute band.

Many of the bill's supporters were apparently unaware of how invasive the procedure could be, one of the officials added.

I'm not sure of Fark's limits on SFWness, so I'll just put this link to a thinkprogress article with a picture of how it's done.

How in the fark could you see that graphic and not realize how invasive it would be? It's invasive enough that I'm not even sure I can show the picture of it.

pisceandreamer: Many of the bill's supporters were apparently unaware of how invasive the procedure could be, one of the officials added.

Gosh, legislating on something you know nothing about?

To be fair staffers didn't tell the legislators about the size of the trans vaginal probe for fears of making them feel inadequate. The last things we want is a bunch of legislators running around trying to prove their masculinity.

BFletch651: My legislative program for dealing with the abortion debate:

1. Abortion is legal nationwide up to viability (6 months, mol)
2. No government money for it and no insurance requirement for it.
3. Minimize unwanted pregnancies by providing free birth control to everyone nationwide and federal expense.
4. Encourage domestic adoption by (a) increasing federal adoption tax credit to $25,000, which is close to the actual cost, and (b) making it easier to terminate parental rights of birth parents, particularly unidentified fathers.

All via federal legislation.

All 100% reasonable, a very good way to deal with the issues, which is why no one will ever accept it.

To me, one of the most horrifying parts to bills like this is the sheer misogyny of the reasoning. The whole idea requires an assumption that women just don't understand what they've got inside of them, so they need to be shown. Everyone knows that the wimmins are so baby-crazy that the instant they see it on the ultrasound they'll go all gooey, and wouldn't DREAM of getting an abortion.

The bill also would require women who live within 100 miles of their abortion provider to wait at least 24 hours before having the procedure, except in emergencies. Those who live farther would have to wait two hours.

Yea, that's not completely arbitrary at all. How the hell would they expect something like this to stand up in court?

/yea, yea, I know. I'm focusing on the wrong thing, but WTF?

If only eligible voters held elected officials accountable for their actions. Sadly most of them do not even know who their elected officials are let alone what they do.

Bob Marshall, the sponsor of this bill, is all for small government, unless you're doing something that offends his religious sensibilities.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Why don't they just cut to the chase and instead of an ultrasound, require the woman to sit in a room for 5 days while old white men parade through and tell her she's a whore.

That's next year's bill. You see every year they need a new set of abortion restrictions in order to keep Pro-Life Inc. in operation. The point is not to ban abortion. Abortions are necessary to keep the contributions and votes pouring in to Pro-Life Inc. At the same time Pro-Life Inc. has to keep abortion as a salient issue while convincing their supporters out there -- those who contribute money and provide the votes -- that progress is being made against abortion. Thus the need each year for some incremental adjustment in law that won't actually reduce abortions, but fool the supporters into thinking it might. And, hey, if it humiliates the women then all the better. They're just whores after all. Right? Meanwhile Pro-Life Inc is getting worried that, gee, if the number of abortions do drop too much then we're out of business. Thus the growing attack on birth control. Birth control is the enemy of Pro-Life Inc. because birth control reduces abortions.

CapnBlues: any woman who wants an abortion should have to be double penetrated by the governor and most senior justice of the supreme court. if either of those individuals are a woman, then the duty falls to his or her spouse.

What, no strap-on action?

Then you have to take the ultra sound picture and put it on your refrigerator door. And then say 10 hail marys, throw salt over your shoulder and put some ashes on your forehead

To paraphrase the great man Carlin, "Have you noticed that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to fark in the first place"?

RE Eddie Adams from Torrance
"Why don't they just cut to the chase and instead of an ultrasound, require the woman to sit in a room for 5 days while old white men parade through and tell her she's a whore."

This.

neversubmit: If only eligible voters held elected officials accountable for their actions. Sadly most of them do not even know who their elected officials are let alone what they do.

Marshall's constituents know exactly what he's doing and most of them approve of it.

meanmutton: BFletch651: My legislative program for dealing with the abortion debate:

1. Abortion is legal nationwide up to viability (6 months, mol)
2. No government money for it and no insurance requirement for it.
3. Minimize unwanted pregnancies by providing free birth control to everyone nationwide and federal expense.
4. Encourage domestic adoption by (a) increasing federal adoption tax credit to $25,000, which is close to the actual cost, and (b) making it easier to terminate parental rights of birth parents, particularly unidentified fathers.All via federal legislation.

All 100% reasonable, a very good way to deal with the issues, which is why no one will ever accept it.

Can you explain this one to me in the context of how it would impact abortion? In NJ, for example, there is no right to terminate your parental rights short of the state government doing it through DYFS or through the adoption by a step-parent.

ToddMU03: Bob Marshall, the sponsor of this bill, is all for small government, unless you're doing something that offends his religious sensibilities.

Government has to be small, otherwise it wouldn't fit into a woman's uterus.

Virginia Governor Robert F. McDonnell, after being featured on The Daily Show for his support of the post-rape vaginal probe bill

Anyone have a link?

I had one of those procedures once, and it was one of the most unpleasant experiences I've ever had, mostly because the woman who was administering it was inexperienced and wasn't doing it right. So, she was pushing the instrument inside me like she was trying to stuff a sweet potato into the cavity of a Thanksgiving turkey carcass, and it hurt like hell, but it was as though I was an inanimate object. She goes to get someone to show her how to do it right, and now there are three incompetent techs standing around me staring at the sonargram screen, urging this biatch how to do it right. It hurt like hell, and was degrading and humiliating. So, I'm sure that once those old codgers in Virginia saw how it's done, they'd cheer, since the purpose of all this is to hurt and humiliate pregnant women who feel the need to have an abortion.

Wellon Dowd: Post-rape, subby? The legislation says nothing about rape. It would apply to all women.

Trans Vaginal Ultrasound is the name of my Esquivel tribute band.

I believe the bill is referred to as such because a woman has no choice but to reluctantly consent to medically unnecessary being violated by a probe which is about the same length and width as a penis if she wants to have a medically viable procedure done.

Abortion is one way the powers that be manipulate the weak minded to separate us.

/Divide and conquer.

In other news. If passed, Virginia will have a sudden rise in citizens moving to other states and women beating their husbands other brains while yelling that they have headaches.

BFletch651: My legislative program for dealing with the abortion debate:

1. Abortion is legal nationwide up to viability (6 months, mol)
2. No government money for it and no insurance requirement for it.
3. Minimize unwanted pregnancies by providing free birth control to everyone nationwide and federal expense.
4. Encourage domestic adoption by (a) increasing federal adoption tax credit to $25,000, which is close to the actual cost, and (b) making it easier to terminate parental rights of birth parents, particularly unidentified fathers.

All via federal legislation.
I'm hoping 1) has caveats that it's legal if the life of the mother is endangered (or if the fetus is technically dead anyways: i.e., has developed without a brain, etc). As I imagine most people woulnd't seek an abortion after 6 months *unless* there was a life-threatening condition....

cwolf20: In other news. If passed, Virginia will have a sudden rise in citizens moving to other states and women beating their husbands other brains while yelling that they have headaches.

No. That won't happen. What will happen, though, is that women in NoVA will only start seeing OB/GYNs in either the District or Maryland, women in the southern most areas will be seeing doctors in North Carolina and everyone in between will find a spike in ER visits from various 'home remedies' going wrong.

Koalaesq: meanmutton: BFletch651: My legislative program for dealing with the abortion debate:

1. Abortion is legal nationwide up to viability (6 months, mol)
2. No government money for it and no insurance requirement for it.
3. Minimize unwanted pregnancies by providing free birth control to everyone nationwide and federal expense.
4. Encourage domestic adoption by (a) increasing federal adoption tax credit to $25,000, which is close to the actual cost, and (b) making it easier to terminate parental rights of birth parents, particularly unidentified fathers.All via federal legislation.

All 100% reasonable, a very good way to deal with the issues, which is why no one will ever accept it.

Can you explain this one to me in the context of how it would impact abortion? In NJ, for example, there is no right to terminate your parental rights short of the state government doing it through DYFS or through the adoption by a step-parent.

Not a lawyer, but here's my thinking.

Pregnant and single woman doesn't want baby. Would like to take it to term and give it up for adoption. Give her the right to unilaterally terminate the parental rights of both herself AND THE FATHER. He has no appeal. The easier process would encourage more pregnancies to be carried through, ratherh than aborted. Father has no veto over an abortion now. Also encourages adoption by giveing adoption parents "clear title".

One can only hope this bill and its Texas counterpart are fought to the death.

One particularly heinous aspect of the Texas bill is that it requires women undergoing the transvaginal ultrasound to LOOK at the image it produces. Do you all understand how sadistic that is? Conservatives are treating women like DOGS who pissed on the carpet, basically grinding their noses into it. Heinous, sadistic, subhuman. Jon Stewart quipped that the Virginia bill didn't require such dystopian treatment (as seen in A Clockwork Orange), but HERE IT IS, in Rick Perry's Texas. (By the way, this alone merits a Texas tag.)