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(Engadget)   Last week: Google bypasses Safari browser privacy settings. This week: Google bypasses Internet Explorer's privacy settings. Maybe they just forgot a comma in the "Don't be evil" slogan   (engadget.com) divider line 38
    More: Dumbass, Internet Explorer, Google, Safari browser, Microsoft, browser, Carnegie Mellon University, Google bypasses  
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1979 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Feb 2012 at 3:04 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



38 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-02-21 11:39:29 PM  
And from reading the update, it seems, surprise, that the way IE works is a hassle and that it's an outdated method.
 
2012-02-22 12:33:28 AM  
You mean Safari's privacy settings were somehow not secure.
 
2012-02-22 01:29:45 AM  
FIREFOX
 
2012-02-22 03:08:58 AM  

WhyteRaven74: And from reading the update, it seems, surprise, that the way IE works is a hassle and that it's an outdated method.


This was Google's first reason given, although now they're saying no one respects your privacy, so they shouldn't be singled out simply because they're the biggest betrayer of trust.

That said, I put the blame on MS and Apple for having software that allows the hack.
 
2012-02-22 03:17:44 AM  
No, money down!

/I don't trust Google as far as I can throw them
 
2012-02-22 03:30:32 AM  

sure haven't: No, money down!

/I don't trust Google as far as I can throw them


Yup. With all the privacy concerns, I'm moving as much of my life off Google as possible, and I'm happy with the results. Duckduckgo.com gives really good search results - scroogle.org if it doesn't for some reason. You have to pay for Skype, but the call quality is way better than I ever go with google voice. I like having imap with thunderbird more than gmail's web interface since it makes things like gpg signing a snap. And I've been using firefox since it was in beta testing, and I still love it, especially over Chrome.

Google maps is about the only thing I need them for anymore.
 
2012-02-22 03:54:59 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: sure haven't: No, money down!

/I don't trust Google as far as I can throw them

Yup. With all the privacy concerns, I'm moving as much of my life off Google as possible, and I'm happy with the results. Duckduckgo.com gives really good search results - scroogle.org if it doesn't for some reason. You have to pay for Skype, but the call quality is way better than I ever go with google voice. I like having imap with thunderbird more than gmail's web interface since it makes things like gpg signing a snap. And I've been using firefox since it was in beta testing, and I still love it, especially over Chrome.

Google maps is about the only thing I need them for anymore.


Scroogle.org has been shut down for good as of yesterday:

http://www.betabeat.com/2012/02/21/scroogle-privacy-first-search-engi n e-shuts-down-for-good/
 
2012-02-22 04:04:25 AM  
digistil
That said, I put the blame on MS and Apple for having software that allows the hack.


I don't even know if I want to call it a "hack" in MS case: that's not a hack by Google, it is incredibly stupid by MS.
Even IF they're right that IE's behavior follows that standard, then the standard is incredibly stupid:

So the point of that standard is that 3rd-party websites should declare what they're using those cookies for - presumably so you or rather your browser can make an informed decision about accepting that cookie or not.
Apparently the default behavior for IE is to accept all cookies and only deny those that specify a policy it doesn't like.
So if there's no policy or one IE doesn't understand, IE defaults to just accepting the cookie instead of denying it.

The sane way ( or rather: the way that protects the privacy of your users) would be to deny a 3rd-party cookie if it comes with standard-violating garbage you can't understand.

--------

Also, from what I read somewhere else, the Google cookie in question was unusually short-lived (24 hours or so) for a tracking cookie.
Granted, they could still be evil and figure that most people will visit one of their sites like gmail, google or youtube within 24 hours and then they could tie that short-lived cookie to one of their other cookies.
But still - "accept all garbage" is the thing I would primarily blame in this case.
 
2012-02-22 05:47:49 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: I'm moving as much of my life off Google as possible


can anyone make a recommendation for a private email hosting service? paying a few bucks a month is still better than putting up my own server I think.
 
2012-02-22 05:57:56 AM  

The Voice of Doom: I don't even know if I want to call it a "hack" in MS case: that's not a hack by Google, it is incredibly stupid by MS.
Even IF they're right that IE's behavior follows that standard, then the standard is incredibly stupid


Could not agree more. And either way, MS and Apple's focus on Google is disingenuous at best.
 
2012-02-22 06:16:00 AM  
well you've got to build bypasses...
 
2012-02-22 06:31:10 AM  

Nogrhi: can anyone make a recommendation for a private email hosting service?


I use a friend's server, but I've heard good things about hushmail.
 
2012-02-22 06:38:58 AM  

The Angry Hand of God: Scroogle.org has been shut down for good as of yesterday:

http://www.betabeat.com/2012/02/21/scroogle-privacy-first-search-engi n e-shuts-down-for-good/


Dear Whomever Launched the DDoS Attacks:

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Sincerely,

Sudo

Seriously, what sort of person goes after a site dedicated to privacy?
 
2012-02-22 06:39:03 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Nogrhi: can anyone make a recommendation for a private email hosting service?

I use a friend's server, but I've heard good things about hushmail.


I will give it a look. I have a friend that does some web hosting so I could likely set it up on there.
 
2012-02-22 07:04:49 AM  
I never thought id say this, but i thnk im going to get everything off of google. The longer you stay, the more services you use, the harder its going to be to go when they truly start being evil.

/ they had the present dominated and the future pretty much sewn up, then they got greedy.
// like they say every time they see you, theyve changed their privacy settings, and this stuff matters.
 
2012-02-22 07:06:59 AM  

digistil: The Voice of Doom: I don't even know if I want to call it a "hack" in MS case: that's not a hack by Google, it is incredibly stupid by MS.
Even IF they're right that IE's behavior follows that standard, then the standard is incredibly stupid

Could not agree more. And either way, MS and Apple's focus on Google is disingenuous at best.


wait, who made the change that puts my privacy at risk? Google. Thats all the ingenuousness you need to know.
 
2012-02-22 08:14:08 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: The Angry Hand of God: Scroogle.org has been shut down for good as of yesterday:

http://www.betabeat.com/2012/02/21/scroogle-privacy-first-search-engi n e-shuts-down-for-good/

Dear Whomever Launched the DDoS Attacks:

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Sincerely,

Sudo

Seriously, what sort of person goes after a site dedicated to privacy?


My guess is the sort of person who was Just Following Orders™.

Move along, Citizen.
 
2012-02-22 08:20:09 AM  

I sound fat: wait, who made the change that puts my privacy at risk? Google. Thats all the ingenuousness you need to know.


Any web server that wants to put the same kind of cookie on your computer can do so and assuredly has done so. If you think Google has come up with anything new or particularly nefarious, you may went to get out more.
 
2012-02-22 08:39:14 AM  
Google bots also ignore robots.txt
 
2012-02-22 08:41:31 AM  

digistil: WhyteRaven74: And from reading the update, it seems, surprise, that the way IE works is a hassle and that it's an outdated method.

This was Google's first reason given, although now they're saying no one respects your privacy, so they shouldn't be singled out simply because they're the biggest betrayer of trust.

That said, I put the blame on MS and Apple for having software that allows the hack.


I've never quite understood the "blame the victim" mentality when it comes to grey/black hatting.
 
2012-02-22 08:44:29 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Any web server that wants to put the same kind of cookie on your computer can do so and assuredly has done so.


You can tell your browser to refuse all cookies. It's not really that hard, and they're almost never necessary for a site to function properly. For those that do, it's pretty easy to add an exemption in.
 
2012-02-22 09:03:50 AM  
Don't be, evil.
 
2012-02-22 09:54:51 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Seriously, what sort of person goes after a site dedicated to privacy?


The Chinese government?
 
2012-02-22 10:02:45 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: The Angry Hand of God: Scroogle.org has been shut down for good as of yesterday:

http://www.betabeat.com/2012/02/21/scroogle-privacy-first-search-engi n e-shuts-down-for-good/

Dear Whomever Launched the DDoS Attacks:

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Sincerely,

Sudo

Seriously, what sort of person goes after a site dedicated to privacy?


Someone being paid by Google?
 
2012-02-22 10:04:38 AM  
This is a stupid argument. Google has a privacy policy that they've publicized to no end. You can know exactly how and for what purpose Google is gathering information on you.

Second, it's trivially easy to force any browser to disallow any cookie from Google, or all cookies in general. You can't claim that you're so concerned about privacy that you're upset about Google tracking you but also claim total ignorance of how privacy technologies work on the internet, or if you do it just shows that you don't *actually* care about privacy.
 
2012-02-22 10:07:20 AM  
Why all he google hate all of a sudden? The cool band you used to love sold out and now you're all sad and stuff?

If IE requires cookies to be described, that's a huge issue with IE, not with google. Facebook does this too, why no facebook hate? I hate facebook, but only because they refuse to give me the info I want in the way I want it, not because I am convinced they are evil.
 
2012-02-22 10:23:26 AM  

Nogrhi: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: I'm moving as much of my life off Google as possible

can anyone make a recommendation for a private email hosting service? paying a few bucks a month is still better than putting up my own server I think.


If you have a lot of data that you would like to retain regardless of what happens to your computers, get a Synology diskstation or similar. RAID storage, runs a verson of linux (so you get SMTP and HTTP server built in), and is compatible with Windows / Mac and of course any flavor of linux you prefer.

You might have to call your ISP to get them to allow outbound mail though. Some of them block it to reduce spam exploits.
 
2012-02-22 10:32:29 AM  

Ajanu: Why all he google hate all of a sudden? The cool band you used to love sold out and now you're all sad and stuff?

If IE requires cookies to be described, that's a huge issue with IE, not with google. Facebook does this too, why no facebook hate? I hate facebook, but only because they refuse to give me the info I want in the way I want it, not because I am convinced they are evil.


Google put themselves up as the company that didn't do this sort of thing. That's why.
 
2012-02-22 10:35:59 AM  

Ajanu: Why all he google hate all of a sudden? The cool band you used to love sold out and now you're all sad and stuff?


nah... I never liked Google...

The maps and a few things are good products, but I've never been interested in Google Mail, and stayed away from using Google for searches for many years, as it took them a while to catch up and pass the others. I use it now, but I fell dirty doing so.

I always considered them as the Apple of the internet... in it for the money and able to get a flock of blind followers.
 
2012-02-22 11:09:43 AM  
Don't, be evil?
Don't be, evil?

Which is it dammit?
 
2012-02-22 11:32:58 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich:
Seriously, what sort of person goes after a site dedicated to privacy?


The guy who was running the sites has a claim to fame. He's the one who managed to shut down the original Encyclopedia Dramatica and had been hammering it for several years. How true that is I've no idea but when you poke your head that far above the parapet things get interesting no matter what.

So... to partly answer your question: 4Chan.
 
2012-02-22 11:45:38 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: sure haven't: No, money down!

/I don't trust Google as far as I can throw them

Yup. With all the privacy concerns, I'm moving as much of my life off Google as possible, and I'm happy with the results. Duckduckgo.com gives really good search results - scroogle.org if it doesn't for some reason. You have to pay for Skype, but the call quality is way better than I ever go with google voice. I like having imap with thunderbird more than gmail's web interface since it makes things like gpg signing a snap. And I've been using firefox since it was in beta testing, and I still love it, especially over Chrome.

Google maps is about the only thing I need them for anymore.


You're not going to be happy when you go to the Geek tag.
 
2012-02-22 12:32:04 PM  

The Angry Hand of God: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: sure haven't: No, money down!

/I don't trust Google as far as I can throw them

Yup. With all the privacy concerns, I'm moving as much of my life off Google as possible, and I'm happy with the results. Duckduckgo.com gives really good search results - scroogle.org if it doesn't for some reason. You have to pay for Skype, but the call quality is way better than I ever go with google voice. I like having imap with thunderbird more than gmail's web interface since it makes things like gpg signing a snap. And I've been using firefox since it was in beta testing, and I still love it, especially over Chrome.

Google maps is about the only thing I need them for anymore.

Scroogle.org has been shut down for good as of yesterday:

http://www.betabeat.com/2012/02/21/scroogle-privacy-first-search-engi n e-shuts-down-for-good/


This sucks so much! I wonder how long it will be until we can pay for a search engine; then again, that wouldn't be very private either... Damn. Got us by ballz, they do.
 
2012-02-22 12:42:20 PM  

Marine1: digistil: WhyteRaven74: And from reading the update, it seems, surprise, that the way IE works is a hassle and that it's an outdated method.

This was Google's first reason given, although now they're saying no one respects your privacy, so they shouldn't be singled out simply because they're the biggest betrayer of trust.

That said, I put the blame on MS and Apple for having software that allows the hack.

I've never quite understood the "blame the victim" mentality when it comes to grey/black hatting.


It's incredibly simple actually. When you are a top tier "internet" computer company, it is generally ill advised to use protocols that are a decade old when they aren't compatible with a significant portion of what you would find on the internet.
 
2012-02-22 02:04:29 PM  

Fubini: This is a stupid argument. Google has a privacy policy that they've publicized to no end. You can know exactly how and for what purpose Google is gathering information on you.

Second, it's trivially easy to force any browser to disallow any cookie from Google, or all cookies in general. You can't claim that you're so concerned about privacy that you're upset about Google tracking you but also claim total ignorance of how privacy technologies work on the internet, or if you do it just shows that you don't *actually* care about privacy.


Seriously. If you're using IE9, just turn on the tracking protection stuff - it selectively blocks cookies. Which also conveniently blocks a lot of ads.
 
2012-02-22 02:12:50 PM  
To be fair, one tends to bypass IE's security settings by accident simply by using it.
 
2012-02-22 02:41:57 PM  
 
2012-02-22 04:31:21 PM  

Ajanu: Why all he google hate all of a sudden? The cool band you used to love sold out and now you're all sad and stuff?

If IE requires cookies to be described, that's a huge issue with IE, not with google. Facebook does this too, why no facebook hate? I hate facebook, but only because they refuse to give me the info I want in the way I want it, not because I am convinced they are evil.


Wait, you haven't seen the Facebook hate? Have you been on the internet long?

Also, there was a whole bit about how Facebook and some advertising sites track users in spite of disabling cookies. Some combination of flash and javascript, I don't remember exactly. The end result is that it didn't work like a standard cookie, was hard to move, and wasn't dependent on your browser's "block/disable cookies" setting.
 
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