ZombieApocalypseKitten: rohar: Heist: revrendjim: Here's what I don't understand. If you are a Caucasian, your ancestors have likely gotten most of their calories from wheat for thousands of years. As late as the 20th century in America it was not uncommon for the lowest classes to have nothing other than bread to eat. While this was probably not the healthiest diet, they weren't dying from it (until they stated using refined white flour, anyway). How is it possible that now all of a sudden every other white person can't eat gluten?

Thank you for asking! For the past thousand(s?) years, people grew natural wheat and ate it minimally processed.

Thanks to giant agricultural corporations like Monsanto, all wheat farmed by large, commercial farms is genetically modified. While it has a higher yield than natural strains of wheat, it does all kinds of weird things to the nutrition. Namely, the dwarf wheat that is most commonly grown in this country has over twice the amount of gluten as the stuff your granddad ate growing up.

When you also consider how highly processed foods are these days, wheat (the high gluten kind) ends up in just about everything we consume. People who might have had low tolerances to gluten in the past wouldn't encounter it at every meal, and if they did it was in lower doses, so it might not have been a big issue. Today, if you have low tolerance for the stuff, it's a bigger deal because gluten is in just about everything, in high amounts.

You know how I know you have no idea what you're talking about?

Oh do tell...

There are two known gluten allergies in general population. Celiac and to a lessor extent Sprue. Neither of these have any tolerance at all. There's no "low tolerance" individuals. No matter how they effect your poo schedule, gluten will create porosity in your bowel, it will be metabolized into proteins bad for your brain and you will most likely die of some sort of GI cancer.

If you don't have either of these, it's a standard GI issue or just psychosomatic IBS. Fix that and you can eat all the pizza you want.

idsfa: Oh, goodie. Another threat where people with no clue hate on those of us with a proven medical problem.

Celiacs disease is a proven medical problem. "Gluten intolerance" is not, and just makes being a Celiac sufferer more annoying because idiots that think they are "gluten intolerant" buy up all the gluten-free stuff.

rohar: ZombieApocalypseKitten: rohar: Heist: revrendjim: Here's what I don't understand. If you are a Caucasian, your ancestors have likely gotten most of their calories from wheat for thousands of years. As late as the 20th century in America it was not uncommon for the lowest classes to have nothing other than bread to eat. While this was probably not the healthiest diet, they weren't dying from it (until they stated using refined white flour, anyway). How is it possible that now all of a sudden every other white person can't eat gluten?

Thank you for asking! For the past thousand(s?) years, people grew natural wheat and ate it minimally processed.

Thanks to giant agricultural corporations like Monsanto, all wheat farmed by large, commercial farms is genetically modified. While it has a higher yield than natural strains of wheat, it does all kinds of weird things to the nutrition. Namely, the dwarf wheat that is most commonly grown in this country has over twice the amount of gluten as the stuff your granddad ate growing up.

When you also consider how highly processed foods are these days, wheat (the high gluten kind) ends up in just about everything we consume. People who might have had low tolerances to gluten in the past wouldn't encounter it at every meal, and if they did it was in lower doses, so it might not have been a big issue. Today, if you have low tolerance for the stuff, it's a bigger deal because gluten is in just about everything, in high amounts.

You know how I know you have no idea what you're talking about?

Oh do tell...

There are two known gluten allergies in general population. Celiac and to a lessor extent Sprue. Neither of these have any tolerance at all. There's no "low tolerance" individuals. No matter how they effect your poo schedule, gluten will create porosity in your bowel, it will be metabolized into proteins bad for your brain and you will most likely die of some sort of GI cancer.

If you don't have either of these, it's a standa ...

Everything I said about genetically modified wheat, and the prevalence of wheat in processed foods, is true. Granted, I don't have a doctorate in nutrition, my understanding of gluten tolerance is going by anecdotal evidence of people I know, and stories I've read about people who (for example) can eat oats in small amounts.

In either case, take the stick out of your ass, you condescending prick.

Felgraf: Ugh. I really should get tested for celiac's some day soon. Not because I currently exhibit symptoms, but, well, Mom was diagnosed a few years back. And the powerful immune system in our family does seem to come with a price.

/Really hopes the test comes up negative.
//Because BEER.
///And Pizza.
////And Pretzels
//And cake.
//Oh cookies too.
//pancakes
//FARK

You really should get tested, there's more on the line than the shiats. I'm the only person in my family without it. And I know how to make awesome pizza, pretzels cake cookies, pancakes an even beer without gluten.

I prefer gluten free pancakes, the edges get all crunchy and it's the awesome! Kinda the same with the pizza.

Heist: and stories I've read about people who (for example) can eat oats in small amounts.

Oats are not glutinous, the problem is that they're often processed with wheat and are therefore contaminated.

So yeah, it's possible for a Celiac to eat a small amount of oats and and roll the dice on not getting sick. Rohar is correct though, there's no "tolerance level". Even a very small amount of wheat can really f*ck up a Celiac's day.

In either case, take the stick out of your ass, you condescending prick.

I disagree, I think he's right to call you ignorant. Because you are. At least there's a cure for that.

Heist: Everything I said about genetically modified wheat, and the prevalence of wheat in processed foods, is true. Granted, I don't have a doctorate in nutrition, my understanding of gluten tolerance is going by anecdotal evidence of people I know, and stories I've read about people who (for example) can eat oats in small amounts.

In either case, take the stick out of your ass, you condescending prick.

Sure it's true. We've had genetically modified corn for years and nobody has any allergies.

There are any number of reasons your anecdotes can happen. Hell, it happened to me. Could be (as was my case) a bacterial issue that was quiet until that protein came into the mix. A couple of weeks of antibiotics and probiotics and all is well. This is not an allergy no matter how many people say it is. Celiac/Sprew is a very serious condition, everybody and their mother claiming they have it when they have no chance of genetic lineage just confuses things for the medical community. Those that have it need to be tested and treated. Those that don't need to STFU and clear out of the medical system.

RexTalionis: Heist: Thanks to giant agricultural corporations like Monsanto, all wheat farmed by large, commercial farms is genetically modified. While it has a higher yield than natural strains of wheat, it does all kinds of weird things to the nutrition. Namely, the dwarf wheat that is most commonly grown in this country has over twice the amount of gluten as the stuff your granddad ate growing up.

Are you talking about the semi-dwarf wheat that was created by Norman Borlaug? The one that saved a billion people from starvation?

That wasn't the product of genetic modification - that was the product of cross-breeding two naturally occurring types of wheat. You know, the same way as how pretty much how every domesticated plant humanity has made for the last 6000 years was made.

But it's not 'natural,' therefore it's scary and must be bad for you.

rohar: Heist: Everything I said about genetically modified wheat, and the prevalence of wheat in processed foods, is true. Granted, I don't have a doctorate in nutrition, my understanding of gluten tolerance is going by anecdotal evidence of people I know, and stories I've read about people who (for example) can eat oats in small amounts.

In either case, take the stick out of your ass, you condescending prick.

Sure it's true. We've had genetically modified corn for years and nobody has any allergies.

There are any number of reasons your anecdotes can happen. Hell, it happened to me. Could be (as was my case) a bacterial issue that was quiet until that protein came into the mix. A couple of weeks of antibiotics and probiotics and all is well. This is not an allergy no matter how many people say it is. Celiac/Sprew is a very serious condition, everybody and their mother claiming they have it when they have no chance of genetic lineage just confuses things for the medical community. Those that have it need to be tested and treated. Those that don't need to STFU and clear out of the medical system.

I couldn't link to the article I wanted, but from what's been hitting the news has been quite a bit about how researchers are looking into the NCGS and doing studies on it. Things haven't been looking too good for wheat. Articles like the headline above make me thing that wheat producers are trying to fight back..

Double blind and placebo controlled.

Link

A better description is at the american journal of gastroenterology.

Been seeing "GF" next to a lot of items on menus these days. The meals sound as appetizing as an old shoe.

♪Oh lutefisk
oh lutefisk
you put me in a coma ♪

ZombieApocalypseKitten: I had horrible IBS. Then I went on Atkins and stopped pooping blood. Then I went on Atkins and started pooping blood again. Too bad it was years before I figured it out.

And what did your doctor say when you told him/her you were "pooping blood"?

I've met 1 person with actual celiac, and I've lost count of those that are doing gluten free "for their health".

I swear the next step is banning gluten in the public schools like they did peanuts...

Haha, I work at a natural foods store so I am getting a kick..

Funny gluten questions I've been asked:
"Is this latte gluten free?"
"Why does it say 'may contain wheat' on the blue cheese?" (Answer: the mold is grown on bread) followed by: "what are the health ramifications of that?" (Answer, ask your doctor)
"Is there any gluten in beer?"
And "do you carry breast milk?".

/that last one had nothing to do with gluten, was just hilarious.

rohar: Enemabag Jones: The researchers give examples of patients who strictly abstained from gluten, and believed their gluten-free diets helped reduce their symptoms. However, very few of them had ever undergone a proper diagnosis procedure.

So if one has a family member that has it and has personally eaten flour and seen the results, what are the advantanges of getting it stamped as official by a doctor?

A tube jammed up one's ass and an official 'pre-existing medical condition'.

If one can control the food they eat would the doctors please explain the advantages again?

It's a simple blood test today.

/welcome to the 21st century

This is why people overuse medical care these days. Not enough suffering, embarrassment, inconvenience, and risk of death.

jingks: ZombieApocalypseKitten: I had horrible IBS. Then I went on Atkins and stopped pooping blood. Then I went on Atkins and started pooping blood again. Too bad it was years before I figured it out.

And what did your doctor say when you told him/her you were "pooping blood"?

doc told me I had IBS and said nothing could be done about it.

ZombieApocalypseKitten: jingks: ZombieApocalypseKitten: I had horrible IBS. Then I went on Atkins and stopped pooping blood. Then I went on Atkins and started pooping blood again. Too bad it was years before I figured it out.

And what did your doctor say when you told him/her you were "pooping blood"?

doc told me I had IBS and said nothing could be done about it.

...and when you said you wanted to be tested for Ceiliac and every insurance in the company will cover the costs, what did he say?

rohar: ZombieApocalypseKitten: jingks: ZombieApocalypseKitten: I had horrible IBS. Then I went on Atkins and stopped pooping blood. Then I went on Atkins and started pooping blood again. Too bad it was years before I figured it out.

And what did your doctor say when you told him/her you were "pooping blood"?

doc told me I had IBS and said nothing could be done about it.

...and when you said you wanted to be tested for Ceiliac and every insurance in the company will cover the costs, what did he say?


I didn't know about this crap 15 years ago. I don't think my doc did either.

jjorsett ,This is why people overuse medical care these days. Not enough suffering, embarrassment, inconvenience, and risk of death.

You notice men are *typically* not standing in line to get their prostates checked or having a look in their lower intestine for cancer.

revrendjim: Here's what I don't understand. If you are a Caucasian, your ancestors have likely gotten most of their calories from wheat for thousands of years. As late as the 20th century in America it was not uncommon for the lowest classes to have nothing other than bread to eat. While this was probably not the healthiest diet, they weren't dying from it (until they stated using refined white flour, anyway). How is it possible that now all of a sudden every other white person can't eat gluten?

I'm sure it has something to do with a Deschanel.

Used to be allergic to wheat, appear not to be anymore.

Still, I think anything that encourages people to eat a variety of foods that aren't just wheat, corn, or soy is a good thing.

/You know, I think I might have been allergic to corn, too.
//I was allergic to a lot of things.

Fark you subby. Throwing up almost every day for six months straight and dropping 35 pounds because I puked everything I ate until I stopped eating gluten when my GI Dr did an endoscopy and said I have celiac disease isn't an attempt to avoid averageness. I would love to be average and eat bread again. Nothing would make me happier than being able to have a beer with friends and have it wash down some pizza at a local place I used to go to. If people who don't actually have celiac disease want to make gluten free stuff more available then I say the more the merrier. I would love to be able to eat something similar to a normal diet at some point.

rohar:

So there's this genetic allergy for those of us from Scandinavia. Many of us don't have it and it's a recessive gene. If you have no Scandinavian heritage, you don't have it. If you do have Scandinavian heritage, you most likely don't have it.

/There are no Italians with Celiac
//If you do have it, it's the shiats

The first time I ever heard of Celiac disease was when my little cousin was hospitalized at age 3 or 4 and no one knew what was wrong except she was "very sick". She's half Italian, half Portuguese. Her Italian grandmother adapted quite quickly to making her her own gluten-free food.

ZombieApocalypseKitten: rohar: ZombieApocalypseKitten: jingks: ZombieApocalypseKitten: I had horrible IBS. Then I went on Atkins and stopped pooping blood. Then I went on Atkins and started pooping blood again. Too bad it was years before I figured it out.

And what did your doctor say when you told him/her you were "pooping blood"?

doc told me I had IBS and said nothing could be done about it.

...and when you said you wanted to be tested for Ceiliac and every insurance in the company will cover the costs, what did he say?


I didn't know about this crap 15 years ago. I don't think my doc did either.

Then now would be a good time for a screening. If you are celiac and consume low amounts of gluten on a regular basis, you'd live longer without any glutin and pick up smoking. If you have symptoms and aren't celiac, we have better diagnostics and can probably allow you to EAT MORE PIZZA!

/do it
//do it now

meteorite: Fark you subby. Throwing up almost every day for six months straight and dropping 35 pounds because I puked everything I ate until I stopped eating gluten when my GI Dr did an endoscopy and said I have celiac disease isn't an attempt to avoid averageness. I would love to be average and eat bread again. Nothing would make me happier than being able to have a beer with friends and have it wash down some pizza at a local place I used to go to. If people who don't actually have celiac disease want to make gluten free stuff more available then I say the more the merrier. I would love to be able to eat something similar to a normal diet at some point.

See, you differ from the people subby is speaking of in that you have an actual diagnosis.

Bedstead Polisher: rohar:

So there's this genetic allergy for those of us from Scandinavia. Many of us don't have it and it's a recessive gene. If you have no Scandinavian heritage, you don't have it. If you do have Scandinavian heritage, you most likely don't have it.

/There are no Italians with Celiac
//If you do have it, it's the shiats

The first time I ever heard of Celiac disease was when my little cousin was hospitalized at age 3 or 4 and no one knew what was wrong except she was "very sick". She's half Italian, half Portuguese. Her Italian grandmother adapted quite quickly to making her her own gluten-free food.

Well there's the unaccounted for variable in the whole mess. The vikings were pretty good at raping and pillaging. Even in Italy. It's still recessive, so a child with 2 predominantly Italian parents would have a very low chance of getting Celiac.

How was it diagnosed?

rohar: Bedstead Polisher: rohar:

So there's this genetic allergy for those of us from Scandinavia. Many of us don't have it and it's a recessive gene. If you have no Scandinavian heritage, you don't have it. If you do have Scandinavian heritage, you most likely don't have it.

/There are no Italians with Celiac
//If you do have it, it's the shiats

The first time I ever heard of Celiac disease was when my little cousin was hospitalized at age 3 or 4 and no one knew what was wrong except she was "very sick". She's half Italian, half Portuguese. Her Italian grandmother adapted quite quickly to making her her own gluten-free food.

Well there's the unaccounted for variable in the whole mess. The vikings were pretty good at raping and pillaging. Even in Italy. It's still recessive, so a child with 2 predominantly Italian parents would have a very low chance of getting Celiac.

How was it diagnosed?

I have no idea. That was about 15 years ago. Pretty sure they got the diagnosis right though.

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Heist: and stories I've read about people who (for example) can eat oats in small amounts.

Oats are not glutinous, the problem is that they're often processed with wheat and are therefore contaminated.

So yeah, it's possible for a Celiac to eat a small amount of oats and and roll the dice on not getting sick. Rohar is correct though, there's no "tolerance level". Even a very small amount of wheat can really f*ck up a Celiac's day.

In either case, take the stick out of your ass, you condescending prick.

I disagree, I think he's right to call you ignorant. Because you are. At least there's a cure for that.

Oats generally cause problems for people with celiac because they are processed with the same equipment that processes wheat. There are a couple of different hrands of oatmeal (Trader Joe's carries a great kind) that are specially processed with their own equipment that I can eat loads of. Seriously, I eat two bowls of oatmeal every single day. I was diagnosed with celiac disease a couple of years ago and even just the tiniest amount of gluten gets me violently nauseas but I can eat as much gluten free oatmeal as I want.

meteorite: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Heist: and stories I've read about people who (for example) can eat oats in small amounts.

Oats are not glutinous, the problem is that they're often processed with wheat and are therefore contaminated.

So yeah, it's possible for a Celiac to eat a small amount of oats and and roll the dice on not getting sick. Rohar is correct though, there's no "tolerance level". Even a very small amount of wheat can really f*ck up a Celiac's day.

In either case, take the stick out of your ass, you condescending prick.

I disagree, I think he's right to call you ignorant. Because you are. At least there's a cure for that.

Oats generally cause problems for people with celiac because they are processed with the same equipment that processes wheat. There are a couple of different hrands of oatmeal (Trader Joe's carries a great kind) that are specially processed with their own equipment that I can eat loads of. Seriously, I eat two bowls of oatmeal every single day. I was diagnosed with celiac disease a couple of years ago and even just the tiniest amount of gluten gets me violently nauseas but I can eat as much gluten free oatmeal as I want.

And thank goodness for gluten free molasses.

Question for the unititiated and too lazy to google. If I am preparing food or say... homebrew, for a celiac friend, do I need to use a different pot, or just make sure it is really, really clean.

I'm trying to make something darker than the usual gluten free beer(let's not get into arguments about beer needing barley) with sorghum syrup, molasses, and brown sugar, and I'm still toying with the idea of adding coffee or gluten free cocoa for those flavors typical of dark beer. I am floundering in the dark though, as my searches for what to do have been near fruitless beyond "use sorghum syrup in place of malt extract".

meteorite: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Heist: and stories I've read about people who (for example) can eat oats in small amounts.

Oats are not glutinous, the problem is that they're often processed with wheat and are therefore contaminated.

So yeah, it's possible for a Celiac to eat a small amount of oats and and roll the dice on not getting sick. Rohar is correct though, there's no "tolerance level". Even a very small amount of wheat can really f*ck up a Celiac's day.

In either case, take the stick out of your ass, you condescending prick.

I disagree, I think he's right to call you ignorant. Because you are. At least there's a cure for that.

Oats generally cause problems for people with celiac because they are processed with the same equipment that processes wheat. There are a couple of different hrands of oatmeal (Trader Joe's carries a great kind) that are specially processed with their own equipment that I can eat loads of. Seriously, I eat two bowls of oatmeal every single day. I was diagnosed with celiac disease a couple of years ago and even just the tiniest amount of gluten gets me violently nauseas but I can eat as much gluten free oatmeal as I want.

Oats produce lower levels of gluten than wheat, but it produces it the same. Gluten will affect someone with celiac even if they don't get GI issues. Because of that, it's a really bad idea to eat oats if you have celiac.

Our pediatrician suggested a gluten-free diet for our daughter to see if it helped some problems she was having.

Some things we found:

* Gluten is in EVERYTHING. Try to go without. Soy sauce? Doritos? Gluten. In an entire supermarket all you can get for her is fruit, rice, potatoes, and meat. (Well, OK, that's actually very healthy ... just hard to pack for a school lunch)

* Her reaction to gluten isn't like when peanut-allergic people eat peanuts. Or lactose-intolerant people drink milk. It's like she gets drunk. She gets fidgety and forgetful.

* Thankfully lots of people are hopping on the gluten-free bandwagon - now you can get gluten-free things like pancake mix and bread at the "normal" supermarkets, not just the pricey health stores.

Cyno01: meat0918: Question for the unititiated and too lazy to google. If I am preparing food or say... homebrew, for a celiac friend, do I need to use a different pot, or just make sure it is really, really clean.

I'm trying to make something darker than the usual gluten free beer(let's not get into arguments about beer needing barley) with sorghum syrup, molasses, and brown sugar, and I'm still toying with the idea of adding coffee or gluten free cocoa for those flavors typical of dark beer. I am floundering in the dark though, as my searches for what to do have been near fruitless beyond "use sorghum syrup in place of malt extract".

Really really clean should suffice, assuming youre using metal or glass. Plastic has a tendency to hold onto things.... Coffee sorghum beer sounds like a good idea, depends what youre going for. If you just want the roastiness of the coffee in place of malt thats one thing, but if you want to make a coffee beer, if youve never made one before, youd be surprised how much coffee you actually need to get a coffee flavor.

Never done one before. I took it as a challenge.

I've got a recipe from the brew store owner that he said was an ok Blue Moon gluten free clone, but too light on the coriander and orange zest.

Cyno01: rohar: Oats produce lower levels of gluten than wheat, but it produces it the same. Gluten will affect someone with celiac even if they don't get GI issues. Because of that, it's a really bad idea to eat oats if you have celiac.

Depends on the species of oat and the individual celiac.

Now would be a good time for a few citations. AFAIK, all wheat, barley, oats and rye produce gluten. Gluten is not properly metabolized in those with celiac so it reduces their life expectancy.

Pick one of those statements and show how it isn't true.

I for one fully support the gluten-free fad and hope it has a few more miles in it. There are far more gluten-free options now then have ever been available in the past, the quality of those choices is vastly improved, and the costs have come down considerably. Simple economics really, more consumers in the GF arena mean more producers, better products and lower prices, and it's all awesome. Take the improvements in pasta, a few years back all the alternatives were soggy cardboard, now there's a bunch of delicious options, and while they still cost twice as much as wheat pasta, at least that's better than 3-4 times more.
And for all that I do agree that there is a GF fad, I also think real sufferers are being helped by Celiac and gluten intolerance being identified in the mainstream as a real problem. Can't tell you how many times in my life I was told flour simply could not be a problem. To this day I know parents who refuse to believe that any "regular" food could in any way be a problem for their child, whether that food is wheat, milk, what have you.

Something the article doesn't touch on is that if you currently eat wheat and other gluten in your diet, get tested BEFORE altering your eating habits. If you've been off of gluten for 2+ weeks then the tests are no longer reliable. If you are off gluten entirely you'll be told you have to go back on gluten for two full weeks before you can get tested. And if you do have an intolerance, there's no reason to put yourself through the pain and misery that will bring.

I have a friend who's chiropractor diagnosed him with a gluten allergy. Worse he has a health related degree and still thinks chiropractors are not in fact undertrained quacks. The guy has never been able to gain weight, and looks quite wimpy. No that he is off gluten he still can't gain weight but thinks he's doing better.

*le sigh*

Pocket_Fisherman: I have a friend who's chiropractor diagnosed him with a gluten allergy. Worse he has a health related degree and still thinks chiropractors are not in fact undertrained quacks. The guy has never been able to gain weight, and looks quite wimpy. No that he is off gluten he still can't gain weight but thinks he's doing better.

*le sigh*

How the fark does a chiropractor get the education to diagnose such a thing?

I prefer to use other outlets for my elitism than anti Capitalism.

RexTalionis: Plus, they're missing out. Fried gluten is great in Chinese food.

Want to try something awesome?

I make my own Seitan, with Vital Wheat Gluten powder. However, that got boring, so I started searching the web for various sausage recipes. I now measure out the spices for various sausages and mix them with the gluten powder before hydrating it. I then cook it any other seitan... the end product are a fat free, carb free, pure protein sausage patties.

I did it with an Italian sausage recipe, slapped it in a roll with tomato sauce and a slice of mozzarella, and it made an awesome parmigian sandwich. My wife even liked it, and she hates vegetarian anything. I've also had success with breakfast sausage recipes.

My condolences to anyone who has a reaction to it, because it's pretty interesting to work with.

Removing grains from my diet has helped me to shed 40 pounds so far, gain a shiat ton more energy, I think far more clearly, I'm less of a dick and I don't have to take 2 hour naps in the middle of the day.

Also, I don't have to shiat every 2 hours.

Grains = the debil. the delicious, oven baked, deep fried and smothered in cheese debil.

Also, subby sounds fat and jealous.

machoprogrammer: idsfa: Oh, goodie. Another threat where people with no clue hate on those of us with a proven medical problem.

Celiacs disease is a proven medical problem. "Gluten intolerance" is not, and just makes being a Celiac sufferer more annoying because idiots that think they are "gluten intolerant" buy up all the gluten-free stuff.

You should probably thank them. In reality their increased demand for gluten free stuff has probably resulted in far more options and availability for you.

I have removed all foods from my diet and i feel fantastic!
/ also very drunk