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(Washington Post)   Cars from Detroit, South Korea, and Japan are now virtually indistinguishable from one another in quality and price. "You can't really screw up too badly in terms of your vehicle choice"   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Strange, South Korea, Detroit, Japan, Toyotas, Jonathan Davis, Japanese, display resolution, vehicle choice  
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1802 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Feb 2012 at 1:00 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-21 01:04:17 AM  
American cars still have garbage interiors.
 
2012-02-21 01:15:42 AM  
You can only improve on some things so much before you hit a plateau.

All vehicles will be equal until we figure out a way to make them self-sustaining on the energy front.
 
2012-02-21 01:17:40 AM  
I bought a Volkswagen. The build quality seemed better, the acceleration and steering were better, and the salespeople and financing was better.

You would think that car salesmen would be knowledgeable and personable. Not so. I went to 4 or 5 different dealerships and got every kind of salesperson, from "complete idiot" to "total douchebag" to "helpful and courteous"
 
2012-02-21 01:18:01 AM  
American cars still cheap out on standard amenities. A bunch of standard items like passenger's side overhead handles are part of the more expensive packages on American cars.
 
2012-02-21 01:25:47 AM  
I've heard that the Ford Rangers are just as good as the Mazda B3000 pickups. Which ought not to be a shock, as they are now the same company.

Fire the workers and replace with the same machines, sure you're getting equal quality.
 
2012-02-21 01:29:12 AM  
What is even an "American" car anymore? Some Fords are made in Mexico and some BMWs and Hyndais are made in the US.
 
2012-02-21 01:33:22 AM  

Valarius: I've heard that the Ford Rangers are just as good as the Mazda B3000 pickups.


Those old Mazda pickups are great, but by today's standards they are way underpowered. Shiate, my grandparents *still* have their 1979 Toyota pickup.
 
2012-02-21 01:44:05 AM  

natmar_76: American cars still have garbage interiors.


But you get a free frogurt with your purchase.
 
2012-02-21 02:00:21 AM  

vernonFL: What is even an "American" car anymore? Some Fords are made in Mexico and some BMWs and Hyndais are made in the US.


Make that MOST Hyundais. 80 percent of hyundais sold in America are made in America. This is higher than any other auto maker. (new window)
 
2012-02-21 02:14:20 AM  

CygnusDarius: natmar_76: American cars still have garbage interiors.

But you get a free frogurt with your purchase.


That's good.
 
2012-02-21 02:19:36 AM  

vernonFL: Valarius: I've heard that the Ford Rangers are just as good as the Mazda B3000 pickups.

Those old Mazda pickups are great, but by today's standards they are way underpowered. Shiate, my grandparents *still* have their 1979 Toyota pickup.


Well, most cars today are ridiculously overpowered. 2012 Toyota Camry SE (V6) 0-60 mph 5.7 Quarter Mile 14.1. 1968 Chevrolet Corvette 427 (390 hp) 0-60 mph 6.3 Quarter Mile 14.1.
 
2012-02-21 02:20:50 AM  

all the good names are gone: CygnusDarius: natmar_76: American cars still have garbage interiors.

But you get a free frogurt with your purchase.

That's good.


The frogurt is made of garbage interiors.
 
2012-02-21 02:21:37 AM  
Of course they are of the same quality. They are are all manufacturered by the same f#$#ing robots. The illusion of choice.
 
2012-02-21 02:29:58 AM  

brandent: vernonFL: What is even an "American" car anymore? Some Fords are made in Mexico and some BMWs and Hyndais are made in the US.

Make that MOST Hyundais. 80 percent of hyundais sold in America are made in America. This is higher than any other auto maker. (new window)


The Hyundais I've driven were pretty good cars. I was impressed.
 
2012-02-21 02:33:23 AM  

vernonFL: You would think that car salesmen would be knowledgeable and personable. Not so. I went to 4 or 5 different dealerships and got every kind of salesperson, from "complete idiot" to "total douchebag" to "helpful and courteous"


Dealers are still independent of manufacturers in this country, and they still make their money in bizarre and useless ways. They basically have the manufacturers' hands tired (and vice-versa) so there's no getting rid of them (GM spent something over a billion dollars to buy out the dealers when it shut down Oldsmobile).

Contrast that with Europe, where the manufacturers controls the points of sale and make their money selling cars, so they don't care if you order online, buy at a dealership or pick the car up at the factory.
 
2012-02-21 02:34:53 AM  
farm8.staticflickr.com

This box is how I distinguish cars, trucks, and SUV's. It's 16x12x12 and loaded weighs just under 50 pounds. In a good week I'll need to take 10 of them to the UPS center at once. Three other days a week I go out finding books to fill the boxes.

farm7.staticflickr.com

Need to be able to fit two of these boxes inside. Then I need to be able to actually get that box out of the vehicle while it's loaded with about 70 pounds of books.

Does anyone make a station wagon these days? How about a mini-van I could pull all of the aft seats from?

I'm keeping my extended cab full size truck for now, I'd rather have an S-10 (or whatever they started to call them) but between 2000 and 2008 they cut the roof down three inches. Damn near concussed myself when I hopped in and expected the same roof height.
 
2012-02-21 02:56:50 AM  
What if my car is from Tennessee?

/95 Saturn
//still has it, very happy with it.
 
2012-02-21 03:08:57 AM  
1989 Toyota Corolla will run forever*

*assuming you didn't forget to put on an oil filter that one time.
 
2012-02-21 03:40:57 AM  

wildcardjack:
Does anyone make a station wagon these days?


Volvo XC70 (new window)
 
2012-02-21 03:43:22 AM  
This is why competition is a good thing. Before Japan started kicking Detroit's ass, we got crappy cars designed to last 3 yrs. After 30 years of making excuses and half assed attempts (all the while thinking that because their product was made in America and therefore was due some kind of consumer loyalty), Ford, GM and Chrysler and the UAW finally decided to jump on the bandwagon and lo and behold! Now they make better quality cars.
THIS is why kids need to learn to compete and win or lose based on merit. Trying doesn't mean crap unless it yields results. Brand loyalty is deserved because it is earned. And yes, this happens where capitalism thrives.
 
2012-02-21 04:05:52 AM  

All Latest: wildcardjack:
Does anyone make a station wagon these days?

Volvo XC70 (new window)


Seconded. I just drove one of those for 3 days last month on a trip, and was impressed. I was at an airport Enterprise rent-a-car about to get a generic sedan when I saw it on lot, and they let me upgrade to it for a nominal fee. Even though it was a rental, it was decently optioned. My kids really got a kick out of the heated rear seats.

All in all, it compares very closely to my '07 BMW 530xi station wagon. All wheel drive is a big deal around here, and I much prefer a wagon for utility and driving over an SUV or Truck. With BMW deciding to not bring the current generation 5 series wagons to the US., it's on near the top of my short list of "next car to get".
 
2012-02-21 04:12:37 AM  

BlameBush: Brand loyalty is deserved because it is earned.


Indeed. My kids are driving my old 2000 Grand Caravan, just bought a Chrysler 200 back in November with no qualms what so ever. I could list multiple Mopars that I've owned and gotten good service from.
I've driven Chrysler products for years because I've gotten more miles out of them for less money in repairs.
Never had one break a frame with rust corrosion or accelerate uncontrollably either.
I have avoided the Mitsubishi powered ones though, glad that nonsense is over.
 
2012-02-21 04:19:01 AM  
wildcardjack:
farm7.staticflickr.com

Somebody had TWO copies of "Why Men Love biatches?"
 
2012-02-21 04:41:58 AM  

steveGswine: wildcardjack:
[farm7.staticflickr.com image 500x374]

Somebody had TWO copies of "Why Men Love biatches?"


Some men REALLY loves biatches.
 
2012-02-21 05:55:48 AM  

wildcardjack: ...Does anyone make a station wagon these days? How about a mini-van I could pull all of the aft seats from?..


Ford Focus wagon is still available I think. Had on '04. More storage space than an SUV, 4 cylinder, lots of room inside especially if you fold down the rear seats
 
2012-02-21 05:57:42 AM  

BlameBush: This is why competition is a good thing. Before Japan started kicking Detroit's ass, we got crappy cars designed to last 3 yrs. After 30 years of making excuses and half assed attempts (all the while thinking that because their product was made in America and therefore was due some kind of consumer loyalty), Ford, GM and Chrysler and the UAW finally decided to jump on the bandwagon and lo and behold! Now they make better quality cars.
THIS is why kids need to learn to compete and win or lose based on merit. Trying doesn't mean crap unless it yields results. Brand loyalty is deserved because it is earned. And yes, this happens where capitalism thrives.


30 years of capitalism failed, according to you, to make a decent car.
 
2012-02-21 06:02:17 AM  

natmar_76: American cars still have garbage interiors.


Never hurt Toyota.
 
2012-02-21 06:05:23 AM  

brandent: vernonFL: What is even an "American" car anymore? Some Fords are made in Mexico and some BMWs and Hyndais are made in the US.

Make that MOST Hyundais. 80 percent of hyundais sold in America are made in America. This is higher than any other auto maker. (new window)


We looked hard at the Elantra Touring when we shopped new cars last year. We had it down to the Hyundai and the Honda Fit. We went for the Honda for better gas mileage and mostly because we have a good independent Honda shop we use. I read that Hyundai is dropping the Elantra Touring in favor of an Elantra hatchback for 2013. The Touring model has good backseat legroom (I am 6'2", 220), and bigger cargo space, but is heavier with a bigger engine, so you trade some MPG.
 
2012-02-21 07:05:04 AM  
YMMV, really.

I can't speak for passenger cars, as I haven't driven one in a while. However, my Toyota pickup was made in Tennessee, by American workers, gets 24MPG, can haul 1500 pounds of crap in the bed or tow 3000+ pounds, and is top-shelf safety rated.

No American (assembled in Canada or Mexico usually) truck can come close to it overall.
 
2012-02-21 07:23:36 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: American cars still cheap out on standard amenities. A bunch of standard items like passenger's side overhead handles are part of the more expensive packages on American cars.


the practice is called de-contenting, and thats how manufacturers increase transaction prices. Toyota was a master at this with the Yaris and Corolla (it stopped that, for the most part), and Nissan with the Versa.

A more recent example of this is the Jetta. go ahead and compare the basic "S" trim with other trim levels. You don't even get a glove box, reading lights, or floor mats! You have to upgrade a whole trim level to get them!
 
2012-02-21 07:36:36 AM  

All Latest: steveGswine: wildcardjack:
[farm7.staticflickr.com image 500x374]

Somebody had TWO copies of "Why Men Love biatches?"

Some men REALLY loves biatches.


i52.tinypic.com

You know, man, if we ever make it home, I'm going to do so much farking cocaine. I'm gonna rape so many fine biatches. I'll be like, "What time is it? After 5:00? Damn. Time to go rape me some fine biatches."
 
2012-02-21 07:44:28 AM  

wildcardjack: This box is how I distinguish cars, trucks, and SUV's. It's 16x12x12 and loaded weighs just under 50 pounds. In a good week I'll need to take 10 of them to the UPS center at once. Three other days a week I go out finding books to fill the boxes.

Need to be able to fit two of these boxes inside. Then I need to be able to actually get that box out of the vehicle while it's loaded with about 70 pounds of books.

Does anyone make a station wagon these days? How about a mini-van I could pull all of the aft seats from?

I'm keeping my extended cab full size truck for now, I'd rather have an S-10 (or whatever they started to call them) but between 2000 and 2008 they cut the roof down three inches. Damn near concussed myself when I hopped in and expected the same roof height.


Subaru. the legacy.
 
2012-02-21 07:49:10 AM  

Katie98_KT: wildcardjack: This box is how I distinguish cars, trucks, and SUV's. It's 16x12x12 and loaded weighs just under 50 pounds. In a good week I'll need to take 10 of them to the UPS center at once. Three other days a week I go out finding books to fill the boxes.

Need to be able to fit two of these boxes inside. Then I need to be able to actually get that box out of the vehicle while it's loaded with about 70 pounds of books.

Does anyone make a station wagon these days? How about a mini-van I could pull all of the aft seats from?

I'm keeping my extended cab full size truck for now, I'd rather have an S-10 (or whatever they started to call them) but between 2000 and 2008 they cut the roof down three inches. Damn near concussed myself when I hopped in and expected the same roof height.

Subaru. the legacy.


What the hell? they made the legacy a sedan. but check out some of the other models.
 
2012-02-21 07:58:48 AM  

ghare:
30 years of capitalism failed, according to you, to make a decent car.


Was it completely unfettered capitalism, or was it capitalism restrained by the dictates of a powerful union, protected somewhat by (unfounded) nationalistic pride, and sheltered protectionist legislation?

Actual free-market capitalism, in the form of Japanese manufacturers, *DID* make a lot of decent cars during those 30 years, and they proceeded to whip Detroit's ass. Even *HYUNDAI*, an upstart Korean manufacturer, went from importing crappy cars into the US to making and selling quality vehicles in less than a decade. It *CAN* be done, if you have the ability to respond to what the market is asking for. You do this in several ways:

1. You have to have the ability to quickly fire substandard workers, and to reward and promote outstanding workers regardless of their seniority. You can't allow a powerful union to maintain a strangehold on your business, because the union isn't there to make sure that you are making a quality car for a decent price, they are there to get as much money and benefits for their members as possible. They also work for things like increased safety, of course, but in a modern factory environment this isn't as important as it was 50 or 100 years ago.

2. You have to understand that blindly relying on appeals to nationalism ("Buy American!") is a recipe for failure down the road. Personally, I don't *CARE* where my car was manufactured, and I'm a fairly patriotic person. If I'm spending tens of thousands of my own hard-earned money, I want a car that is reliable. I want *VALUE*, not empty flag waving. If you can't build a decent car, you don't deserve my money. It is as simple as that.

3. Relying on lucrative government contracts that *MUST* go to an American company and government bailouts to keep you from failing isn't capitalism. It's corporate welfare, which distorts the free markets. Nobody really goes out hunting skunks, because it isn't worth it. But if the government put a bounty on them, people would do it. Corporations are the same way.
 
2012-02-21 07:58:54 AM  
when i had my hondas in the 70's-80's almost every bolt was 10mm or 12mm. usually only stuff like the exhaust system had different bolts because it was slapped on to pass local requirements. same for the german cars being 13mm and 15mm. the american cars seemed to have been designed for the assembly line people to make them as fast as possible but not for the owner to work on later. my hondas never needed a special tool from the dealer just to remove the side window hand crank.
 
2012-02-21 07:59:22 AM  
Whether the cars are as good is not really the question.

The real question is how they treat thier customers after purchase. After how GM treated me in 1986 I will never buy another car from them or any company they have tainted by owning.

Long story but the short version: When your customers have to buy parts from Toyota, for your under-warranty GM car, and pay an independent Toyota mechanic to install them, all to fix a problem Toyota covered under warranty on their version of the car, then your company sucks.

fark GM. GM should die a fast death and let companies that actually serve their customers well take over GM's market share.
 
2012-02-21 08:03:16 AM  

dumbobruni: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: American cars still cheap out on standard amenities. A bunch of standard items like passenger's side overhead handles are part of the more expensive packages on American cars.

the practice is called de-contenting, and thats how manufacturers increase transaction prices. Toyota was a master at this with the Yaris and Corolla (it stopped that, for the most part), and Nissan with the Versa.

A more recent example of this is the Jetta. go ahead and compare the basic "S" trim with other trim levels. You don't even get a glove box, reading lights, or floor mats! You have to upgrade a whole trim level to get them!


Yeah, this seriously pisses me off. If I want the $500 HID headlights, I need to spend another $2000 to get the nav system. WTF? I have a Garmin and it's better than the built-in one. And no, I don't want to spent another $2500 for the remote entry, which has to come with the leather seats and heated cup holder.
 
2012-02-21 08:05:03 AM  

ghare: wildcardjack: ...Does anyone make a station wagon these days? How about a mini-van I could pull all of the aft seats from?..

Ford Focus wagon is still available I think. Had on '04. More storage space than an SUV, 4 cylinder, lots of room inside especially if you fold down the rear seats


'06 was the last year for the US Focus Wagon. They still merrily chug them out in Europe, however, the assholes.

Only small wagon from Ford is next year's hybrid or electric 5 passenger Focus C-Max.

Again, being assholes, they're keeping the ICE 7-passenger C-Max in Europe.

/ford, why you no sell me wagon
 
2012-02-21 08:33:07 AM  

mark.jms: ghare: wildcardjack: ...Does anyone make a station wagon these days? How about a mini-van I could pull all of the aft seats from?..

Ford Focus wagon is still available I think. Had on '04. More storage space than an SUV, 4 cylinder, lots of room inside especially if you fold down the rear seats

'06 was the last year for the US Focus Wagon. They still merrily chug them out in Europe, however, the assholes.

Only small wagon from Ford is next year's hybrid or electric 5 passenger Focus C-Max.

Again, being assholes, they're keeping the ICE 7-passenger C-Max in Europe.

/ford, why you no sell me wagon


Got a Mazda 3 hatchback two years ago after driving my old Mazda 3 for 5 years. Love it. There have been many occasions where I've thought to myself "wow, this is so convenient".

I have considered a Focus before, but it's a shame they don't sell the wagon here.

Parents have a new Nissan. Nice car, but the interior isn't nearly as nice as the Focus or Mazda3.
 
2012-02-21 08:33:45 AM  

dittybopper: ghare:
30 years of capitalism failed, according to you, to make a decent car.

Was it completely unfettered capitalism, or was it capitalism restrained by the dictates of a powerful union, protected somewhat by (unfounded) nationalistic pride, and sheltered protectionist legislation?

Actual free-market capitalism, in the form of Japanese manufacturers, *DID* make a lot of decent cars during those 30 years, and they proceeded to whip Detroit's ass. Even *HYUNDAI*, an upstart Korean manufacturer, went from importing crappy cars into the US to making and selling quality vehicles in less than a decade. It *CAN* be done, if you have the ability to respond to what the market is asking for. You do this in several ways:

1. You have to have the ability to quickly fire substandard workers, and to reward and promote outstanding workers regardless of their seniority. You can't allow a powerful union to maintain a strangehold on your business, because the union isn't there to make sure that you are making a quality car for a decent price, they are there to get as much money and benefits for their members as possible. They also work for things like increased safety, of course, but in a modern factory environment this isn't as important as it was 50 or 100 years ago.

2. You have to understand that blindly relying on appeals to nationalism ("Buy American!") is a recipe for failure down the road. Personally, I don't *CARE* where my car was manufactured, and I'm a fairly patriotic person. If I'm spending tens of thousands of my own hard-earned money, I want a car that is reliable. I want *VALUE*, not empty flag waving. If you can't build a decent car, you don't deserve my money. It is as simple as that.

3. Relying on lucrative government contracts that *MUST* go to an American company and government bailouts to keep you from failing isn't capitalism. It's corporate welfare, which distorts the free markets. Nobody really goes out hunting skunks, because it isn't wor ...


You make some valid points, but keep in mind that for a good chunk of those 30 years, those Japanese cars were manufactured in Japanese factories by JAW union autoworkers. It wasn't until they started making cars in the US that Toyota, Honda, and Nissan were able to use non-union labor. The same goes for South Korea and Germany. Having a union building their cars certainly didn't hurt any of the foreign automakers.

If anything, what really helped these foreign automakers was the public health care and governement pension systems in place in in their home countries. Without having to fully foot the bill for these services, these foreign companies had lower overhead, even once you factor in the higher tax rates.
 
2012-02-21 08:42:55 AM  

dittybopper: Actual free-market capitalism, in the form of Japanese manufacturers, *DID* make a lot of decent cars during those 30 years, and they proceeded to whip Detroit's ass. . . You can't allow a powerful union to maintain a strangehold on your business


Ha ha, oh wow, someone's way deep in the Kool-Aid. Let's get this out of the way really quickly:

JAPANESE AUTO WORKERS ARE UNIONIZED.

The problem isn't that auto workers are unionized. The problem is that the Big 3 and the UAW have been scorching the earth like the Midwest was an effin' George R. R. Martin novel.
 
2012-02-21 08:43:34 AM  

drewogatory: vernonFL: Valarius: I've heard that the Ford Rangers are just as good as the Mazda B3000 pickups.

Those old Mazda pickups are great, but by today's standards they are way underpowered. Shiate, my grandparents *still* have their 1979 Toyota pickup.

Well, most cars today are ridiculously overpowered. 2012 Toyota Camry SE (V6) 0-60 mph 5.7 Quarter Mile 14.1. 1968 Chevrolet Corvette 427 (390 hp) 0-60 mph 6.3 Quarter Mile 14.1.


Even though this article is almost 10 years old, it's still fairly fascinating how far auto technology has come.2003 Honda Odyssey beats classic sports cars in autocross.
 
M-G
2012-02-21 08:50:57 AM  

Valarius: I've heard that the Ford Rangers are just as good as the Mazda B3000 pickups. Which ought not to be a shock, as they are now the same company.


No, as Ford divested most of the stake in Mazda in 2008. But it isn't a shock because the Mazda is a badge-engineered version of the Ranger. After tariffs on imported trucks were imposed, it became prohibitive for the Japanese to import small pickups. So Mazda and Isuzu both started rebadging domestic small pickups.
 
2012-02-21 08:58:49 AM  

natmar_76: American cars still have garbage interiors.


I can't help it. I'm a hoarder.
 
2012-02-21 09:07:43 AM  

drewogatory: Well, most cars today are ridiculously overpowered. 2012 Toyota Camry SE (V6) 0-60 mph 5.7 Quarter Mile 14.1. 1968 Chevrolet Corvette 427 (390 hp) 0-60 mph 6.3 Quarter Mile 14.1.


Heh. I know the old classic cars have a certain style to them, but it's funny as hell to see how today's grocery getters can whip them. I was seriously amused when I found out that my MT Honda Fit outaccelerates the '82 RX-7 I had 20+ years ago.

Then I realized something else - back in the day, 1 hp per cubic inch was considered a big deal, and that was back in the era of optimistic gross horsepower ratings. Now, 1 hp per cubic inch doesn't mean much; that 1.5L Fit motor, which yields 117 hp, works out to about 91 cubic inches (about 1.28 hp per cubic inch). It used to be that you'd be lucky to get 55 hp from a 1.5.

We live in a golden age of car performance. It's too bad gas is $3.50 a gallon on a good day.
 
2012-02-21 09:09:43 AM  
First-year law student Randall Rosales found many good choices last year when he began looking for a small luxury SUV to replace his mother's 2008 Infiniti sedan in Dallas. At 22 years old, he's his family's designated car expert. Unlike previous searches, he's found that every vehicle on his list has similar quality and options.

He considered the BMW X3, Mercedes GLK350, Lexus RX 350 and Infiniti EX35 before picking an Audi Q5 because the fuel economy of its turbocharged four-cylinder engine and its interior quality set it apart.


I'm not entirely sure, but I hope those cars are for your mom because those are girl cars, Randall.
 
2012-02-21 09:21:15 AM  

wildcardjack:
How about a mini-van I could pull all of the aft seats from?



All of them? They either fold into the floor or can be taken completely out. Just shopped for a van last year (got the Odyssey) but every one I compared had the ability to be completely flat from front seats to rear hatch.
 
2012-02-21 09:24:07 AM  
Cars from Detroit Designed in the US and/or Europe and built in North America, South Korea Designed and fabricated in South Korea and shipped to North America for final assembly, and Japan Ditto for Japan are now virtually indistinguishable from one another in quality and price. "You can't really screw up too badly in terms of your vehicle choice"

If any industry has become globalized, it's the auto industry. When Fiat owns most of Chrysler, Fords are basing their American models on their European ones, and GM is turning Opels into Buicks for China and the US, stating a preference for a brand is just stating your preference for nostalgia and marketing.
 
2012-02-21 09:32:51 AM  

Galvatron Zero: mark.jms: ghare: wildcardjack: ...Does anyone make a station wagon these days? How about a mini-van I could pull all of the aft seats from?..

Ford Focus wagon is still available I think. Had on '04. More storage space than an SUV, 4 cylinder, lots of room inside especially if you fold down the rear seats

'06 was the last year for the US Focus Wagon. They still merrily chug them out in Europe, however, the assholes.

Only small wagon from Ford is next year's hybrid or electric 5 passenger Focus C-Max.

Again, being assholes, they're keeping the ICE 7-passenger C-Max in Europe.

/ford, why you no sell me wagon

Got a Mazda 3 hatchback two years ago after driving my old Mazda 3 for 5 years. Love it. There have been many occasions where I've thought to myself "wow, this is so convenient".

I have considered a Focus before, but it's a shame they don't sell the wagon here.

Parents have a new Nissan. Nice car, but the interior isn't nearly as nice as the Focus or Mazda3.


I've got a Focus Wagon 2005, the year they started putting the Mazda engines in them. Great car.
Yes, the big selling point for me was the large cargo space. I wanted my next car to be a wagon too, but as pointed above, that's not possible anymore in N.America. However, I've found that a KIA Rondo is basically the same size, cargo-wise, so I might get one of those.
 
2012-02-21 09:42:07 AM  

natmar_76: American cars still have garbage interiors.


I know right? Those plebs will never know the luxury of whale penis leather.
 
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