The correct answer is...: In the late 1970s.....blah blah blah....

/csb

Dude, that story is creepy as hell.

Felgraf: Um, but men can and do volunteer at girl scout camps.

And do they appear to have a significant history of men molesting girl scouts, or is it mainly just men molesting boys in boy scouts?

cuzsis: gmpilot: GungFu: BronyMedic: Mock26: I do not. Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing. There is no statistical data to show that a gay man is more likely to molest a boy than a straight male will molest a girl, and these same people who refuse to let homosexuals into the BSA have no qualms about letting male teachers teach their daughters or let women teach their sons in school.

This. Scientific studies have actually proven that homosexual men are at no greater propensity to molest childen than heterosexual men.

Pedophilia and homosexuality have nothing in common.


Unless it's homosexual pedofiles, of course.

I would actually be surprised if it wasn't much lower in homosexual men because they seem to have far less of a problem getting ass. I imagine for many heterosexual molesters they are not only repressing their pedophilia and have no outlet, but also seem to not be very attractive or successful and/or have the most active sex life in general. I would have a hard time believing that most pedophiles are ONLY attracted to little kids; they are just an easier group to target.

So why does it mostly seem to be little boys that are targeted? (ie: Alter boy is a common joke here.)

Are they just more convenient than the girls or something?

Well, you know what girls are like, biatch biatch moan moan, buy me a new dress, handbag, let's get committment rings, meet her parents, let's get engaged, white wedding dress, let's get married have children, white picket fence 2.3 children named Britney, Chantelle, Nequavion etc etc..

A little boy will be quite happy just eating a McDonald's Happy Meal (allegedly).

GungFu: The correct answer is...: In the late 1970s, the Boy Scout troop that I was part of lost most of its adult leadership, for a variety of reasons. One adult leader who was brought in as a replacement was a very weird guy who gave all the scouts the creeps. Sure enough, about three months after he joined, he tried to lure me and one other scout (individually) to his apartment for a private "party" to view man-on-boy pr0n and who knows what else.

Both of our parents went to the local BSA Council to file a complaint, and they offered both my mom and the other scout's mom $1,000 to drop the complaint and "let them deal with th situation". We were dirt poor (think Kenny from South Park) so my mom took the money and I quit the troop. The other Scout's dad was an attorney and pressed charges. It was big news for awhile in our community.

tl;dr: Shiat's been happening for years, nothing new here.

/csb

The other kid got a $1,000,000 settlement and you got some lollipops.

The other kid got a confidential settlement that was "significant" although I doubt it was a million dollars. My mom took the Hound up to Lake Tahoe the day she got our $1,000 bribe settlement and came back broke. I didn't even get a lollipop.

What sucked was that the other Scout's dad (the attorney) couldn't be bothered to represent me or my mom (we asked), but he wanted me to testify on his son's behalf in his lawsuit. When we refused, the other Scout (who I thought was a friend) went around saying that my mom tried to extort money from them in order to have me testify!

Ironically, I credit the Boy Scouts with keeping me from becoming a total punk later in life. I was definitely headed in that direction as an adolescent. So, definitely mixed feelings all around for me when it comes to BSA.

tut0101: Mikey1969: As I mentioned to someone else(Who was MUCH ruder than you), this puts them right in the middle of a TON of potential issues, whether real or imagined. You either have adults together with children of the gender they happen to be attracted to taking said kids to remote places and hanging out with them all night long, or you are wide open to issues with kids who lie for attention, or manipulative little shaits who lie to blackmail someone.

You do understand that if a kid is going to lie about something having happened, neither the gender nor the sexual orientation of the alleged perpetrator will matter in the slightest, right?

It will though. If you've got a kid who's pulling blackmail on someone who's *not* attracted to that kids sex (male female whatever) there is that tiny but significant point of contention to the story. Someone who *is* already attracted to that sex is going to have that much of a harder time getting it dismissed.

I'm not saying it's foolproof, but there is a difference (even if it's slight).

cuzsis: gmpilot: GungFu: BronyMedic: Mock26: I do not. Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing. There is no statistical data to show that a gay man is more likely to molest a boy than a straight male will molest a girl, and these same people who refuse to let homosexuals into the BSA have no qualms about letting male teachers teach their daughters or let women teach their sons in school.

This. Scientific studies have actually proven that homosexual men are at no greater propensity to molest childen than heterosexual men.

Pedophilia and homosexuality have nothing in common.


Unless it's homosexual pedofiles, of course.

I would actually be surprised if it wasn't much lower in homosexual men because they seem to have far less of a problem getting ass. I imagine for many heterosexual molesters they are not only repressing their pedophilia and have no outlet, but also seem to not be very attractive or successful and/or have the most active sex life in general. I would have a hard time believing that most pedophiles are ONLY attracted to little kids; they are just an easier group to target.

So why does it mostly seem to be little boys that are targeted? (ie: Alter boy is a common joke here.)

Are they just more convenient than the girls or something?

Okay, well that's an interesting question. One thing that pops into my mind is that perhaps you get more volunteers for boy scouts, while perhaps for girl scouts you get more mothers/parents? I'm not sure what the policy on who can participate is.

kokomo61: (no single adult is EVER alone with a Scout).

Hunh. I wonder how often that's practical in a summer week-long camp setting. Like, not the weekend outings, where we're all in one place, but the weeklong summer programs where we went our different ways for badge schedules and you didn't really particularly have to show up or be in a certain place if you had your shiat together - I definitely remember some times hanging out with just one leader because others were elsewhere. They'd watch me fail at whatever I was doing and then help apply first aid. Good times!

dittybopper: namegoeshere: In addition to unspecified damages, the lawsuit seeks an order compelling the Scouts to hand over thousands of confidential files detailing allegations of sexual abuse by Scout leaders and others around the nation.

Depending on the state, Boy Scout adult leaders are mandated reporters. So anyone who had knowledge of any abuse, or anything in these files, needs PMITA time.

FARK the culture of hiding child sexual abuse. No farking more. No more. Catholic, Boy Scout, whatever.

Not only are they mandated reporters, but not reporting it to the authorities is contrary to Boy Scouts of America policy. When you join as an adult leader, you have to take an online training course (with a test at the end) that specifically mentions that you *HAVE* to report that kind of stuff to both the leadership *AND* the proper authorities.

Given that policy, I don't think the lawsuit will succeed, because whoever said that violated BSA policy.

Hell, my son just started Tiger Cubs last year, and we were told at the first meeting that any suspected abuse would mean the police would be called, and that they had to have more than one adult with the kids at any one time. The leadership of this pack made it clear that they weren't going to risk the kids to save the organization.

I'll admit that I've seen this almost work the other way, though. When I was in Scouts, there was a really troubled kid who was frankly a bully and came from a broken home. The adults got tired of the BS and wanted to expel him from the troop, as his antics had included terrorizing boys and, and one point, breaking another kids arm. When the adult leadership made a move to kick the kid out, the grandparents started to insinuate that the Scoutmaster was a pedophile. It wasn't true, and they never outright accused him, but they made it clear that they would destroy him if they kicked their little snowflake out of the troop.

We ended up with him until he turned 18. Heard later that he stole a car and a gun, ended up in jail.

BSA has a bunch of idiots running the thing, but then again its a Christian organization. I was harassed in it for a good 60% of the time when we were at large camps, but never at my home chapter. Quit right before eagle due to it. Weird thing was it all began after 1st class, never had any issues with it prior.

I had an instance where there was around 9 kids from one of the San Mateo chapters started messing with me @ camp. I was the odd-ball kid, but not the nerd, but I guess it was my turn. Basically they chose to mess with me in an open shower, and because I hurt their feelings by telling them to 'fark off' and ignore their words and physical actions, 5 of them decided to go to one of the leaders and tell them I touched _all_ of them, in front of like 20 other kids/parents. Result: Isolate me from everyone else and banned from many camps in California.

The next 'wtf' comes 8 months after the incident, where I went to another camp, same 5 of those kids happened to be there (had to be apart of the same chapter) and the same thing happened, went up the common trails to fire an old flintlock, and those 5 kids were just leaving. They had waited 1/2 way down the trail for me to come back and when I encountered them I ignored their insults and left. Safe to say a few hours I was sent home because they had said 'I wooped their asses' without any bruises or anything else on them.

I got more of those stories. Once this crap began, it didn't stop until I quit. I must have pissed off someone somewhere for this to happen.

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: The correct answer is...: In the late 1970s.....blah blah blah....

/csb

Dude, that story is creepy as hell.

Well, the C has it covered either way really.

The correct answer is...: GungFu: The correct answer is...: In the late 1970s, the Boy Scout troop that I was part of lost most of its adult leadership, for a variety of reasons. One adult leader who was brought in as a replacement was a very weird guy who gave all the scouts the creeps. Sure enough, about three months after he joined, he tried to lure me and one other scout (individually) to his apartment for a private "party" to view man-on-boy pr0n and who knows what else.

Both of our parents went to the local BSA Council to file a complaint, and they offered both my mom and the other scout's mom $1,000 to drop the complaint and "let them deal with th situation". We were dirt poor (think Kenny from South Park) so my mom took the money and I quit the troop. The other Scout's dad was an attorney and pressed charges. It was big news for awhile in our community.

tl;dr: Shiat's been happening for years, nothing new here.

/csb

The other kid got a $1,000,000 settlement and you got some lollipops.

The other kid got a confidential settlement that was "significant" although I doubt it was a million dollars. My mom took the Hound up to Lake Tahoe the day she got our $1,000 bribe settlement and came back broke. I didn't even get a lollipop.

What sucked was that the other Scout's dad (the attorney) couldn't be bothered to represent me or my mom (we asked), but he wanted me to testify on his son's behalf in his lawsuit. When we refused, the other Scout (who I thought was a friend) went around saying that my mom tried to extort money from them in order to have me testify!

Ironically, I credit the Boy Scouts with keeping me from becoming a total punk later in life. I was definitely headed in that direction as an adolescent. So, definitely mixed feelings all around for me when it comes to BSA.


That's pretty f'up, dude. You should have said the scumbag attorney dad touched you.

/joking
//glad the scouts was benefitial at least
///I think I would have loved it when I was younger...but not the other part

cuzsis: gmpilot: GungFu: BronyMedic: Mock26: I do not. Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing. There is no statistical data to show that a gay man is more likely to molest a boy than a straight male will molest a girl, and these same people who refuse to let homosexuals into the BSA have no qualms about letting male teachers teach their daughters or let women teach their sons in school.

This. Scientific studies have actually proven that homosexual men are at no greater propensity to molest childen than heterosexual men.

Pedophilia and homosexuality have nothing in common.


Unless it's homosexual pedofiles, of course.

I would actually be surprised if it wasn't much lower in homosexual men because they seem to have far less of a problem getting ass. I imagine for many heterosexual molesters they are not only repressing their pedophilia and have no outlet, but also seem to not be very attractive or successful and/or have the most active sex life in general. I would have a hard time believing that most pedophiles are ONLY attracted to little kids; they are just an easier group to target.

So why does it mostly seem to be little boys that are targeted? (ie: Alter boy is a common joke here.)

Are they just more convenient than the girls or something?

Girls are usually molested by male relatives or close family friends. Those stories don't get media attention because they aren't from an individual representing an organization like the Church or BSA (unless it's their teacher or something). That doesn't mean it doesn't happen to girls all the time though.

2wolves: swingerofbirches: The commonality between the Boy Scouts and the Catholic church altar boys is that in both situations you have a group of just males. Why segregate scouting by sex? I did scouting in Sweden, and it was just a group of kids. They don't have Boy Scout or Girl Scouts, just scouts.

I mean, believe it or not, males and females both come from Earth. We might as well learn to scout the planet together. And I can't quite articulate how, but separating by sex seems to almost make sex more important than it is, and it probably attracts people who value that, in the same way some people seem to have a fetish for an all-girls Catholic boarding school.

Boy Scouts were originally a para-military organization.

No, they were not. Baden-Powell based some of his teachings on what he learned in the military, but the Boy Scouts were never a para-military organization.

Unless, of course, you are a Soviet officer who has invaded Colorado.

You know, the older I get, the happier I am that my parents didn't raise me to be a Good Christian^(tm). It kept me away from creepy priestly predators, and I dropped out of Boy Scouts after two weeks because the level of Christian indoctrination was so oppressive.

Probably saved me thousands of dollars in sexual abuse therapy bills.

tut0101: You do understand that if a kid is going to lie about something having happened, neither the gender nor the sexual orientation of the alleged perpetrator will matter in the slightest, right?

Except that people are a LOT more likely to jump on the 'they have to be guilty' bandwagon if the accused happens to also be Gay, one of our last major stigmas left, along with Muslim and Atheist. The Muslim one wouldn't really stick, people hate them because Fox News tells them to, but they don't (usually) go around assuming automatically that they are pedophiles. Atheists are a little more likely to be assumed guilty since the Religious Right can't wrap their heads around the fact that morals can exist for people who aren't religious.

Straight person accused, people might wonder, but nothing may come of it. Gay person accused, the tar and feathers come out.

Here's an example of how this mentality works:
3 or 4 years ago here in Salt Lake, a family was having an all night 4th of July party. For whatever reason, the kids woke up and decided to go to the nice neighbor's house where they either got peace and quiet, or felt safe. Eventually drunk mom and dad figured out the kids were gone, and stormed into the gay neighbor's house. The kids were there, talking, nothing going on. I believe the guy was in the middle of the 'Let's get you home to your parents before they're worried' spiel. Over the next few minutes, 7 drunk people from next door stormed into the house and proceeded to beat this man and his partner almost to death, mashing a television over one guy's head. Not because anybody saw anything, Hell, not even because any of the kids said anything had happened. Also not because they had a problem with this neighbor, he had even been over earlier in the evening and had a few drinks. All because this man was gay, and the kids were in his house, although they had gone over on their own.

And what happened when the cops got there? They charged the two gay men and let the 7 people guilty of attempted murder/aggravated assault go on about their lives. It took about a year before someone decided that maybe they had arrested the wrong people.

See, the sexual orientation DOES matter when these issues come up. These A-Holes almost beat two people to death all because their kids were with a gay person alone.

brainyblonde: My son is an Altar Server and a Boyscout. He would seriously injure and call out anyone that touched him inappropriately. Saying that, the boy is on his way to a great life. I'm been a lurker, until now, and your broad brush can paint your butt-hurt how you typically tend do it around here (but, many of you look sooooo stupid in your "artwork").

So was this guy (new window)



/just sayin'

Around here the Mormons are taking over the Boy scouts. I have no idea if they're creepy pedophiles. I'm sure they like to handle things "internally" too.

omeganuepsilon: Mikey1969: I DO understand their ban on gay Scout Leaders though, it's the same as allowing men to take Girl Scouts on their camping trips.

I just knew the GBLT brigade would jump all over this.

It's like their kryptonite.

You all do know that rape isn't a hetero exclusive trait right? I mean, here we have an actual article about male on male action.

Besides that, society really doesn't back you up.

Typically, during a pee test, a woman has to watch women, because, typically, there will not be an issue of fear on the end of the person being tested.

Women who only want a straight woman gynecologist is a homophobe, because she also doesn't want a straight man gynecologist(come on everyone, we all know guy gyno's are creepy).

At that, most women will want female nurses in any given medical scenerio. It's a comfort issue. We all know most men would claim to want female nurses, but wouldn't you know it, when I had to get a hemmorroid lanced, and 3 hot trainees had to watch, well, as a man, that was a horrifying experience.

Female gym teachers to watch the girls shower, and visa versa for boys.

Tell you what, I care about sexuality. I'd rather a straight man examine my junk, because I don't want even the chance, of something inappropriate going on there. Hell, give me a straight man dentist, if what we hear about the pervy dentists do when people are under is true.

You all try to play the "Look at the Homo-phobe card" here, but it's a legitimate call for most of society. The whole idea that no one should be a perv is great, but humanity just doesn't play out that way(but go ahead playing at being delusional if you really want though).

Be it me, or my kid, and I don't want them exposed to people that may be attracted to them. Yeah, I can't lock them up, but we all deserve the right to be selective about who does what to us and our kids.

We say, "Don't walk naked through the ghetto, you might get raped."
You scream "DON'T BLAME THE VICTIM"

We say, "Don't ...

I have no idea what point you're trying to make but you're not a woman, so don't talk about gynecological issues. Fact: most women prefer male gynos because they tend to be gentler.

Anyway, continue with your incoherent rambling.

While the BSA was swearing in the Supreme Court that it was essential to their very existence that they be able to exclude filthy pervert gay scoutmasters (like James Dale, who had never even been suspected of inappropriate behavior with a scout), the married churchgoing father who was the BSA executive in charge of national programs, Douglas S. Smith Jr., was trafficking in child pornography.

Yes, BSA - you have a problem. No, it's not teh gheys.

cryinoutloud: Around here the Mormons are taking over the Boy scouts. I have no idea if they're creepy pedophiles. I'm sure they like to handle things "internally" too.

They are. Though, they usually they like their underage wives to be female and just drive the boys out of their cult, for fear of competition.

Oh, I'm sorry, that's just their splinter groups. They totally don't do that in the mainstream any more. They also really don't think black people are cursed.

dittybopper: Not only are they mandated reporters, but not reporting it to the authorities is contrary to Boy Scouts of America policy. When you join as an adult leader, you have to take an online training course (with a test at the end) that specifically mentions that you *HAVE* to report that kind of stuff to both the leadership *AND* the proper authorities.

Given that policy, I don't think the lawsuit will succeed, because whoever said that violated BSA policy.




\OK, but it actually is against policy, but so many people think cover-ups serve some sort of greater good that you need to beat it into people, repeatedly.

evaned: Statistics don't support the first claim, and because of that, blackmail shouldn't work against gay scoutmasters any more than against straight ones, which somewhat negates your second claim. ("Should" doesn't necessarily translate to "does.")

Fark statistics. In my other post, I relate a very similar situation to a kid lying. Nobody lied in that case, but two gay men almost lost their lives because people saw gay men a lone with kids and jumped to the completely wrong conclusion. Put that in your 'statistic' pipe and smoke it.

evaned: Where you really dug yourself into a hole, and the reason I replied, is that you fail to draw a distinction between, say, one straight and one gay scoutmaster going on a boy scout trip vs a straight woman and a straight man going on a girl scout trip.

I don't really think the husband/wife thing is the smartest idea either, but you have a couple that will be sleeping together, meaning that you will have someone to definitively vouch for the location of the other if an accusation is ever made. I'm pretty sure the gay and straight Scoutmasters wouldn't be sleeping "together". They might share a tent, but not a zip together sleeping bag, and 'Bob' really isn't going to be concerned about what time 'Sam' comes in the tent to go to sleep, or if he gets up to go for a walk late at night. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

evaned: You say that you're not trying to argue that homosexuality and pedophilia are related... but you certainly are acting like you believe they are.

No I'm not. This is always a tricky conversation. Everyone is a black and white person it seems lately. If I support gay rights, it means that I can never, ever, ever say that I think certain situations are bad to involve gay people in, or I can't say that flaming queens annoy me, or I must be lying. Nobody seems to understand how many shades of gray are out there. I have no problem with gay people, and I don't think they are pedophiles, any more than straight people, but my shade of gray is that I can see where this is a bad idea from a liability standpoint.

I've known tons of gay people over the years, going back to bout 1990. I've worked with them, been friends with them. IN the mid-90's, I worked smack dab in the middle of the 'Gay Corridor' in Phoenix. From 7th avenue to 7th Street on Camelback Road is the largest concentration of gay bars in the city, almost every one of them is a gay bar. Hell, the Denny's at 7th Street and Camelback is known across the country as 'Gay Denny's', or G-Denny's. At the Applebee's I worked at at the time, straight people were quite likely the minority, or it was at least an even split... Once again, no problems.

Hell, my brother in law is gay, and he's been living with us for 3 years now while he goes to school. For the first 2 years, he was my daughter's Nanny(Or 'Manny', as we called it). We also had him babysit my stepsons all the time when they were growing up. No problems. None. I'm not afraid he's going to turn anyone gay, I'm not afraid that he's going to molest any of the kids. When he has dates and friends over(Sometimes overnight, sometimes for dinner), I am no more worried than I would be of anyone. I have no fear that one of his dates will wake up in the middle of the bight and molest one of the boys.

But hey, believe what you want, assault my statements all you want if it makes you feel like a crusader for the gay man. I don't care, I know what I believe, and I don't give a fark anymore if you people believe me or not. Work comes early in the morning.

I volunteered for the Scouts this past weekend for some merit badge camp held at our University. They make you take this online video/quiz thing about how to be around the kids. Its one of those ones were if you answer a question wrong, you have to go back and answer it correctly. Every single time an answer came up with "go to the police" or some such, it was an incorrect response, even the ones were it would be included in an "all of the above" or an "a and c" type with the correct answer/s. The hell is wrong with the scouts?

/Used to be a cub scout. Glad I escaped that.

Eirik: Hell, my son just started Tiger Cubs last year, and we were told at the first meeting that any suspected abuse would mean the police would be called, and that they had to have more than one adult with the kids at any one time. The leadership of this pack made it clear that they weren't going to risk the kids to save the organization.

That is standard Boy Scout policy. When I was a Scoutmaster we had to occasionally cancel meetings and camping trips because there was only one adult available.

Mikey1969: I don't really think the husband/wife thing is the smartest idea either, but you have a couple that will be sleeping together, meaning that you will have someone to definitively vouch for the location of the other if an accusation is ever made. I'm pretty sure the gay and straight Scoutmasters wouldn't be sleeping "together". They might share a tent, but not a zip together sleeping bag, and 'Bob' really isn't going to be concerned about what time 'Sam' comes in the tent to go to sleep, or if he gets up to go for a walk late at night. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

I've actually done both, went on a camping trip with girl scouts where both my wife and I were there and have done the scout leader thing a few times. At night you keep track of everything. If there are 20 kids on a trip, I doubt they are all asleep at any one instant. Unless the kids are very unique, you've got to worry about pranksterism of one sort or another.

And you don't expect much in the way of conjugal relations with your spouse on a camping trip with the girl scouts.

moonage daydream: I have no idea what point you're trying to make but you're not a woman, so don't talk about gynecological issues. Fact: most women prefer male gynos because they tend to be gentler.

Anyway, continue with your incoherent rambling.

The point I'm trying to make, is that comfort of the patient(or in a more general sense, the customer), is their right, and making a call about what makes one comfortable is not necessarily demonstrative of them being bigoted. In all of society, there is a large acceptance of these choices when it comes to being intimately observed or tended to(to extend to children being cared for remotely) by the opposite gender(to maximize the chances of impartiality). And I listed a plethora of examples.

I'm not rambling, you just have issues catching the over all concept.

There are two sides to something that is incoherent, another possibility, is that you're simply a dumb-ass and incapable of reading a post for the concept. Either take a remedial reading comprehension class or at least try to apply yourself. Maybe take a handful of aderal or ritalin to help your concentration.

Who cares why (supposedly) a majority of women choose male gyno's? That is irrelevent, because some DO choose women for just the reason I stated(decreased chances of total impartiality, even if it just boils down to a simple and quick unwanted leer), and typically they're not called a bigot for it. That choice does not define their stance, it only defines their stance on people who have access to their axe wound, a right that any woman has to make. Now you can continue to almost argue that they shouldn't have that freedom by trying to make the women that do choose that sound like a bigot, more than image that you project of you being a dumb ass you'll also look like an asshole.

cryinoutloud: Around here the Mormons are taking over the Boy scouts. I have no idea if they're creepy pedophiles. I'm sure they like to handle things "internally" too.

They sue the journalists that writes about Mormon pedo Boy scout leaders. (new window)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. No. Not since people wised up to organisationally-protected abuse in the 90s, chucklefarks.

cryinoutloud: Around here the Mormons are taking over the Boy scouts. I have no idea if they're creepy pedophiles. I'm sure they like to handle things "internally" too.

Sure they are.

/sarcasm

wademh: And you don't expect much in the way of conjugal relations with your spouse on a camping trip with the girl scouts.

I didn't say you did, I just pointed out that a wife is far more likely to note if you are coming and going from the tent than some other dude is. Also women have this hard on for zipping your bags together, even if there are no fun activities going on.

wademh: At night you keep track of everything. If there are 20 kids on a trip, I doubt they are all asleep at any one instant. Unless the kids are very unique, you've got to worry about pranksterism of one sort or another.

I always stayed up hours later than the entire camp. I liked to hang out by the fire and just chill. Nobody else but me. Best part of the trip was being alone with the fire, wandering off to look for more firewood, playing pyromaniac, etc... :-)

smask: They sue the journalists that writes about Mormon pedo Boy scout leaders. (new window)

Yeah, it must mean all Mormons are bad.

Blanket statements keep you warm in the winter, there's always that.

As a parent of a Cub Scout, I disagree with the "failure to warn boys" allegation... the boys actually can't progress up the Cub Scout ranks without passing certain achievements that include sitting down with a parent and having a talk about what to do if someone wants to do something inappropriate with you.

Miss Stein: His mugshot:
[i759.photobucket.com image 635x473]
The stuff of nightmares.

I wonder if looking like what Jabba the Hut would look like if he were an American Picker is defense from getting raped in prison. I mean, who wants that?

cryinoutloud: Around here the Mormons are taking over the Boy scouts. I have no idea if they're creepy pedophiles. I'm sure they like to handle things "internally" too.

Having watched the clusterfark of Catalyst Gaming Labs (a geek/hobby company that publishes, among other things, Battletech) where the Mormon owner "accidentally co-mingled" a million or so of company money with his own bank accounts and nearly bankrupted the company, I can say that the Mormons prefer handling issues of character "privately". The second who could have started trouble and pressed charges decided not to mainly because of his faith (he was a Mormon too).

Considering that the BSA is basically owned by the Mormon church at this point, I can easily see the BSA wanting to keep child abuse allegations "internal".

Please don't take this as a direct attack at Mormonism. Historically they were pretty persecuted (look at how Deseret, which basically was the entire western half of the North America was carved into Utah as the Mormons either rose in political power or natural resources were discovered), so it makes sense to be somewhat... xenophobic I guess you could say.

My father was a boy scout when he was a kid, and pretty much forced me to participate. It was actually kind of fun, but I always biatched and moaned about wanting to quit because it wasn't "cool". My family moved a couple times while I was growing up, so I was involved with several different troops over the years.

Based on my experiences, there wasn't as much opportunity for molestation as posters seem to think. Aside from summer camp, there were always lots of parents around. And, the scout leaders were never just random cretins. They were usually parents or former troop members that returned to volunteer as adults.

When combating pedophilia in any organization, parental involvement is key. A good scout master constantly urges parents to get involved, attend camping trips, teach merit badges, etc. That is pretty much the opposite of what a pedophile wants... the pedophile wants parents to drop their kids off and not ask too many questions. So, if you are thinking of having your kids get involved with scouting, a good way to gauge their safety is to look at the level of parental involvement.

Mikey1969: smask: They sue the journalists that writes about Mormon pedo Boy scout leaders. (new window)

Yeah, it must mean all Mormons are bad.

Blanket statements keep you warm in the winter, there's always that.

Well they do believe gays aren't real people, so makes them pretty awful.

gmpilot: GungFu: BronyMedic: Mock26: I do not. Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing. There is no statistical data to show that a gay man is more likely to molest a boy than a straight male will molest a girl, and these same people who refuse to let homosexuals into the BSA have no qualms about letting male teachers teach their daughters or let women teach their sons in school.

This. Scientific studies have actually proven that homosexual men are at no greater propensity to molest childen than heterosexual men.

Pedophilia and homosexuality have nothing in common.


Unless it's homosexual pedofiles, of course.

I would actually be surprised if it wasn't much lower in homosexual men because they seem to have far less of a problem getting ass. I imagine for many heterosexual molesters they are not only repressing their pedophilia and have no outlet, but also seem to not be very attractive or successful and/or have the most active sex life in general. I would have a hard time believing that most pedophiles are ONLY attracted to little kids; they are just an easier group to target.

And to further complicate things:

It's probably not accurate to describe true paedophiles (that is, people with sexual attractions to pre-pubescent kids) as heterosexual OR homosexual--more properly, they should be seen as a "pedosexual" category OUTSIDE of sexual orientations towards adults. This is because many psychologists studying sexual disorders are coming to the conclusion that paedophilia is not a "paraphilia" but a distinct sexual orientation...and, unfortunately (in this case), it's about as impossible to "de-pedobear" a true paedophile as it is to "degay" someone. About the only things that have been found effective longterm in treating true paedophiles involve chemical or literal castration and explicit "celibacy cognitive therapy" to teach them to keep their urges to molest kids under control--and even with that, there's still a VERY high recidivism rate.

(For those unaware--"paraphilias" are sexual attractions to things not normally sexualised; many paraphilias would fall under what we term "sexual fetishes". The psychological mechanisms for paraphilias work differently than for true sexual orientations, and treatment is very different between the two. Complicating things is that paedophilia is one of two sexual orientations (the other being zoophilia) that implicitly involve sexual orientations towards parties that are inherently unable to consent and--unlike same-sex attractions to adult partners or even most paraphilias--CAN be legitimately seen as inherently dangerous.)

Unfortunately, true paedophiles do have a tendency to try to worm their way into trusted positions with children, and generally orgs that deal with children (such as the clergy, Scouting orgs, childcare centers, and so on) don't exactly require their members to have tests for "pedosexual orientation" because those tests don't really exist outside of research settings dealing with pedophiles :P

Mikey1969: I liked to hang out by the fire and just chill. Nobody else but me. Best part of the trip was being alone with the fire, wandering off to look for more firewood, playing pyromaniac, etc... :-)

I love fire. Have a 6 foot diameter pit not 25 yards from where I sit.
Playing pyro is fun with or without people, but it's understandable not to do it in front of a bunch of impressionable kids that you were just teaching to NOT do those things..heh.

You know how to do colored fire? Maybe not environmentally safe, but...

Copper tube(with holes drilled in every so far) + older garden hose(typically inside the pipe bit)

Will yield all the colors of the rainbow, green, purple, dark red, bright yellow, etc.

I say old hose, because I'm told newer one's tend to not be made out of quite the same formula, and don't work as well/at all.

There are also assorted powders you can buy,(pre mixed packets), as well as other things you can get. Never got into diy further than the pipe + hose bit, because I've a few hoses saved.

If you're careful and the copper pipe is big enough, you can re-use it(after it cools obviously, just chip out the hose remnants and re-fill with a new hose length, maybe sand it down to expose surface copper(just copper can add a green tinge by itself). Need some sort of tongs or chain lnked to it, you don't want to bury it. Also don't want to put it in a huge fire, or it won't last long. 6 inches w/ as much hose can last all night in a smaller fire pit, but in mine will burn up in minutes if I put it in early..our fires are real inferno's at the start, that's where the skill of building comes in to us, a gigantic teepee of wood that makes people flee when it gets going good.

Anyhow, sure you can google more precise info if you're interested.

Gimmick: My father was a boy scout when he was a kid, and pretty much forced me to participate. It was actually kind of fun, but I always biatched and moaned about wanting to quit because it wasn't "cool". My family moved a couple times while I was growing up, so I was involved with several different troops over the years.

Based on my experiences, there wasn't as much opportunity for molestation as posters seem to think. Aside from summer camp, there were always lots of parents around. And, the scout leaders were never just random cretins. They were usually parents or former troop members that returned to volunteer as adults.

When combating pedophilia in any organization, parental involvement is key. A good scout master constantly urges parents to get involved, attend camping trips, teach merit badges, etc. That is pretty much the opposite of what a pedophile wants... the pedophile wants parents to drop their kids off and not ask too many questions. So, if you are thinking of having your kids get involved with scouting, a good way to gauge their safety is to look at the level of parental involvement.


Really? How about just NO! Dude a caveat kind of kills it.

/goes for religion too

gmpilot: GungFu: BronyMedic: Mock26: I do not. Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing. There is no statistical data to show that a gay man is more likely to molest a boy than a straight male will molest a girl, and these same people who refuse to let homosexuals into the BSA have no qualms about letting male teachers teach their daughters or let women teach their sons in school.

This. Scientific studies have actually proven that homosexual men are at no greater propensity to molest childen than heterosexual men.

Pedophilia and homosexuality have nothing in common.


Unless it's homosexual pedofiles, of course.

I would actually be surprised if it wasn't much lower in homosexual men because they seem to have far less of a problem getting ass. I imagine for many heterosexual molesters they are not only repressing their pedophilia and have no outlet, but also seem to not be very attractive or successful and/or have the most active sex life in general. I would have a hard time believing that most pedophiles are ONLY attracted to little kids; they are just an easier group to target.

Also, as an aside--it was pretty much documented as early as 1978 in psychological journals that "homosexual pedophilia" and adult same-sex attraction were distinct and separate sexual orientations; this isn't something that's come about in recent research, but something that's been known for a while.

Unfortunately, the more we're learning about sexual orientation and its inflexibility, the more it seems that probably the kindest thing to be done to true paedophiles is to pretty much take them to the back of the barn and tell them about the rabbits, so to speak--you can no more de-pedobear a paedophile than you can "de-gay" a lesbian. And in most jurisdictions, euthanasia for paedophilia isn't legal, and neither is executing paedophiles in the legal system unless they manage to kill a kid in the process of raping them. :P

/I will note that I am not generally a supporter of the death penalty, save in cases of high treason
//paedophilia is one of my rare exceptions, because all evidence points to them being "born broken" and there is no way to fix them

buzzcut73: Oh, and whoever said the Boy Scouts have been hijacked by the Catholic Church, get it right. They've been hijacked by the Mormons.

QFT.

Loren: It depends on when the incident happened vs when the law was passed.

Don't confuse "legal" with "moral". The former is, indeed, a function of legislatures and executives; the latter is based on what makes the world a better place (insofar as you can determine such).

/Eagle Scout 1988, National Jamboree 1989, World Jamboree 1991
//Knows more than a few other Eagles who refuse to have anything to do with current BSA (gay, atheist...)
///Wishes he could enroll his own sons with a clear conscience.

The first 'instinct' of any organization is to protect the organization from outsiders.

gmpilot: GungFu: BronyMedic: Mock26: I do not. Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing. There is no statistical data to show that a gay man is more likely to molest a boy than a straight male will molest a girl, and these same people who refuse to let homosexuals into the BSA have no qualms about letting male teachers teach their daughters or let women teach their sons in school.

This. Scientific studies have actually proven that homosexual men are at no greater propensity to molest childen than heterosexual men.

Pedophilia and homosexuality have nothing in common.


Unless it's homosexual pedofiles, of course.

I would actually be surprised if it wasn't much lower in homosexual men because they seem to have far less of a problem getting ass. I imagine for many heterosexual molesters they are not only repressing their pedophilia and have no outlet, but also seem to not be very attractive or successful and/or have the most active sex life in general. I would have a hard time believing that most pedophiles are ONLY attracted to little kids; they are just an easier group to target.


I think you're probably wrong about that. Pedophiles have an abnormal attraction to a very particular kind of body. Children aren't just a convenient sexual outlet, it is what a pedophile is most attracted to.

Homosexuality or heterosexuality have almost nothing at all to do with pedophilia. In fact, pedophiles have by far the highest male-female crossover in victimology compared to any other sex offender, because pre-pubescent kids have almost no adult features. Male and female children's bodies and even faces are much more similar to each other than even pubescent kids, even to the point that childrens skeletons cannot be positively sexed by an anthropologist until they are about 15 years old. One does not generally categorize a pedophile as homosexual or heterosexual -- pedophile is like a 3rd sexual preference of its own.

Note that not all child molesters would be clinically diagnosed as a pedophile, but a majority of them would, especially in the case of very young kids (under 12 or so).

Mikey1969: Except that people are a LOT more likely to jump on the 'they have to be guilty' bandwagon if the accused happens to also be Gay

...

3 or 4 years ago here in Salt Lake, a family was having

I think I'm beginning to see the root of your problems....