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(AZCentral)   Man goes into Walmart bathroom stall, sits down, drops his revolver, the revolver shoots a bullet, the bullet goes through the stall door, hits a wall, ricochets into a ceiling light, back onto the floor toward a man standing at a urinal. Ta-da   (azcentral.com) divider line 136
    More: Strange, Mesa Walmart, Ruger, bathroom stall, urinals, Greenfield, holster  
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7442 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2012 at 11:12 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-20 08:13:32 PM  
Talk about one...(puts on sunglasses)...magic bullet..YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAH
 
2012-02-20 08:15:05 PM  
... and people wonder why many businesses prohibit firearms.
 
2012-02-20 08:15:30 PM  
OK, someone tell me why Arizona doesn't have a tag yet?
 
2012-02-20 08:16:12 PM  
This wouldn't have happened if the stall door was armed.
 
2012-02-20 08:45:59 PM  
Forgive me, but this is one thing I have never understood - how does a firearm "just go off"? My pistol requires the grip safety and trigger safeties both be depressed; my rifle requires me to disengage the safety and pull the trigger, as does my shotgun. I can't imagine my pistol "just firing" - even if there were a round chambered.

Am I wrong to be so skeptical? Do firearms "just fire" on a regular basis when bumped?
 
2012-02-20 08:53:41 PM  
Million to one shot doc...
 
2012-02-20 09:00:52 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope:

Am I wrong to be so skeptical? Do firearms "just fire" on a regular basis when bumped?


preaprez.files.wordpress.com

They sure do. Just like cars in TV drama shows in the '80's exploded in a massive fireball when in a fender bender or spontaneously midair when going off a cliff.

===============================

Seriously, though-- I suspect cheap shiatty guns may be more prone to "going off" than the guns you have.

Of course, I know very little about guns, so I might be totally wrong. It may be that this guy's gun going off was a 1 in a 100,000,000 freak accident.

Glad nobody was hurt.
 
2012-02-20 09:40:54 PM  

Ed Finnerty: This wouldn't have happened if the stall door was armored.


FTFY
 
2012-02-20 09:56:29 PM  
This was a revolver. Revolvers generally don't have external safeties; instead, the common practice is to use a transfer bar. The transfer bar slides between the firing pin and the primer only when the trigger is in the fully-rearward position (i.e. shot fired); otherwise, in case of a drop/fumble/hammer slap, the firing pin will not contact the primer and the round will not discharge.

Revolvers are almost always carried in "Condition 1." It sounds like this one was of poor design.
 
2012-02-20 09:57:40 PM  
Ah, Arizona. A gun nut's paradise, where one can shiat and shoot at the same time.
 
2012-02-20 10:16:57 PM  

TwistedIvory: Revolvers are almost always carried in "Condition 1." It sounds like this one was of poor design.


You got the part about transfer bar safeties right, but revolvers are carried in Condition 2, not Condition 1. Condition 1 is with the hammer at full cock and the manual safety applied. Condition 2 is with the hammer down on a live round. Granted, the whole Condition thing was designed by Cooper to describe the 1911, so the "on a live round" doesn't really matter when we're talking about a revolver because the cylinder will index when the hammer comes back, but it's close enough.

And it's unlikely that the revolver was of a bad design. They said it was a Ruger. They're nuts about being safe. No way they've got anything out on the market right now that's going to fire with a simple hammer strike after being dropped. Well, not with their revolvers. Some of their new auto has some safety issues but they recalled them.

Now, if the news report was right in that it was a "Western style" revolver I'd assume a Single Action, and Ruger makes many of those, but damned if they're going to go off when dropped. And even if you pull the trigger on them they're not going off unless manually cocked and you're a damned moron if you walk around with a SA revolver at full cock in your holster.

If it was a DA gun he would have still had to pull the trigger as it fell out of his pants. That's where my money is. He had a DA revolver slip out of the holster while sitting down, tried catching it (do NOT do this) and pulled the trigger as he grabbed it.

Or he was just futzing with it while in the stall. Any which way you slice it he's an idiot.

Which brings me to another point: For all the yammering we hear about training requirements to get a carry permit not one state, to my knowledge, requires that you demonstrate the ability to take a crap while carrying a gun. For 99.9% of concealed carry holders (a stat pulled from my butt) this will be the most complicated and most dangerous thing you do. But we never certify for it. Everybody's worried about Joe Bob's ability to hit a target when he draws his pistol, which will probably never happen, but I guarantee he's going to have to poop some day with a pistol on his belt.

Just another instance of laws being made by folks that have no idea what real life is like.
 
2012-02-20 10:28:12 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Forgive me, but this is one thing I have never understood - how does a firearm "just go off"? My pistol requires the grip safety and trigger safeties both be depressed; my rifle requires me to disengage the safety and pull the trigger, as does my shotgun. I can't imagine my pistol "just firing" - even if there were a round chambered.

Am I wrong to be so skeptical? Do firearms "just fire" on a regular basis when bumped?


They can, but pistols tend to have the most internal safeties against this than anything else. Your shotgun, I'd assume, will fire if dropped in just the right manner with the safety on but I'm presuming you've got a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 or 590 because they're incredibly popular and if you had something esoteric you'd have mentioned it.

Unless there's a mechanism that blocks the firing pin from contacting the primer unless the trigger is pulled, like a transfer bar on a revolver, or a firing pin safety on a pistol, rifle, or shotgun, they can and will fire if you build up enough inertia during the fall. The original 1911 design could do this when dropped onto concrete, muzzle down, from around 29 feet. Not a likely scenario but Colt stuck in a firing pin safety in either the Series 70 or Series 80 lines. I forget which. It has been copied by other makers.

But designs like the Remington 870 still aren't drop safe. Even the AR-15 isn't, though I'm not sure at what height you have to drop it to make it fire. At any rate the firing pin is still free floating in that design, and it was only a month or so ago I saw a report from an experienced shooter that fired a round because he kept rechambering the same round in his AR-15 over multiple days of hunting. The inertia of the bolt slapping forward on the same round a few times, and the firing pin following through, was enough to set the primer off.
 
2012-02-20 10:30:32 PM  

jbuist: Which brings me to another point: For all the yammering we hear about training requirements to get a carry permit not one state, to my knowledge, requires that you demonstrate the ability to take a crap while carrying a gun. For 99.9% of concealed carry holders (a stat pulled from my butt) this will be the most complicated and most dangerous thing you do. But we never certify for it. Everybody's worried about Joe Bob's ability to hit a target when he draws his pistol, which will probably never happen, but I guarantee he's going to have to poop some day with a pistol on his belt.

Just another instance of laws being made by folks that have no idea what real life is like.


Hell - in my state, I just had to fill in a form and pay 50 bucks for the FBI background check. It was actually kind of disturbing, how easy it was. I got the permit because I wanted to buy a collector gun online and that makes life a helluvalot easier for the transfer. Up to that point, though, I had never fired a handgun. I still don't carry - my XD is a bit large for that. I've been debating getting a small carry pistol, though - I work in a rough part of town and sometimes walk to my car after dark.

I'll make sure not to get a revolver, or if I do, not carry it at Condition 1.
 
2012-02-20 10:34:54 PM  

jbuist: TwistedIvory: Revolvers are almost always carried in "Condition 1." It sounds like this one was of poor design.

You got the part about transfer bar safeties right, but revolvers are carried in Condition 2, not Condition 1. Condition 1 is with the hammer at full cock and the manual safety applied. Condition 2 is with the hammer down on a live round. Granted, the whole Condition thing was designed by Cooper to describe the 1911, so the "on a live round" doesn't really matter when we're talking about a revolver because the cylinder will index when the hammer comes back, but it's close enough.

And it's unlikely that the revolver was of a bad design. They said it was a Ruger. They're nuts about being safe. No way they've got anything out on the market right now that's going to fire with a simple hammer strike after being dropped. Well, not with their revolvers. Some of their new auto has some safety issues but they recalled them.

Now, if the news report was right in that it was a "Western style" revolver I'd assume a Single Action, and Ruger makes many of those, but damned if they're going to go off when dropped. And even if you pull the trigger on them they're not going off unless manually cocked and you're a damned moron if you walk around with a SA revolver at full cock in your holster.

If it was a DA gun he would have still had to pull the trigger as it fell out of his pants. That's where my money is. He had a DA revolver slip out of the holster while sitting down, tried catching it (do NOT do this) and pulled the trigger as he grabbed it.

Or he was just futzing with it while in the stall. Any which way you slice it he's an idiot.

Which brings me to another point: For all the yammering we hear about training requirements to get a carry permit not one state, to my knowledge, requires that you demonstrate the ability to take a crap while carrying a gun. For 99.9% of concealed carry holders (a stat pulled from my butt) this will be the most complicated and most dangerous thing you do. But we never certify for it. Everybody's worried about Joe Bob's ability to hit a target when he draws his pistol, which will probably never happen, but I guarantee he's going to have to poop some day with a pistol on his belt.

Just another instance of laws being made by folks that have no idea what real life is like.


This was in Arizona, no concealed carry permit required.
 
2012-02-20 10:35:45 PM  

jbuist: Any which way you slice it he's an idiot.


He sits on public toilets in Walmart. He's lucky to be alive.
 
2012-02-20 10:43:49 PM  

jbuist: Benevolent Misanthrope: Forgive me, but this is one thing I have never understood - how does a firearm "just go off"? My pistol requires the grip safety and trigger safeties both be depressed; my rifle requires me to disengage the safety and pull the trigger, as does my shotgun. I can't imagine my pistol "just firing" - even if there were a round chambered.

Am I wrong to be so skeptical? Do firearms "just fire" on a regular basis when bumped?

They can, but pistols tend to have the most internal safeties against this than anything else. Your shotgun, I'd assume, will fire if dropped in just the right manner with the safety on but I'm presuming you've got a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 or 590 because they're incredibly popular and if you had something esoteric you'd have mentioned it.


Saiga 12-gauge semi-auto, if that counts as esoteric. I did own a Mossy 500 for years, though. Helluva gun, reliable as hell, never one bit of trouble.

Unless there's a mechanism that blocks the firing pin from contacting the primer unless the trigger is pulled, like a transfer bar on a revolver, or a firing pin safety on a pistol, rifle, or shotgun, they can and will fire if you build up enough inertia during the fall. The original 1911 design could do this when dropped onto concrete, muzzle down, from around 29 feet. Not a likely scenario but Colt stuck in a firing pin safety in either the Series 70 or Series 80 lines. I forget which. It has been copied by other makers.

But designs like the Remington 870 still aren't drop safe. Even the AR-15 isn't, though I'm not sure at what height you have to drop it to make it fire. At any rate the firing pin is still free floating in that design, and it was only a month or so ago I saw a report from an experienced shooter that fired a round because he kept rechambering the same round in his AR-15 over multiple days of hunting. The inertia of the bolt slapping forward on the same round a few times, and the firing pin following through, was enough to set the primer off.


Damn, that would scare the living schitt out of me. I'll keep that in mind if I ever get an AR-15. Right now I shoot target with a Ruger 10/22 - more popgun than rifle, but the ammo's dirt cheap and I'm learning to shoot properly. The goal is to get good enough to go get my deer next year.
 
2012-02-20 10:44:23 PM  

dustman81: This was in Arizona, no concealed carry permit required.


I'm aware of that. You don't need one in VT, WY, AZ, or AK.

The point was that even when places do require training (and you can count police in this too) not enough emphasis is put on dropping a deuce with your gun.

I got a bit lucky in that I listened to old farts before I started carrying. I just did it around my apartment. First time I had to take a dump I dropped my pants and FWOOMP! Yeah, they drop faster with a CZ-75B on your belt.
 
2012-02-20 10:50:04 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Saiga 12-gauge semi-auto, if that counts as esoteric.


Benevolent Misanthrope: Damn, that would scare the living schitt out of me. I'll keep that in mind if I ever get an AR-15.


Your Saiga 12 suffers from the same problem. The firing pin is free floating and if the primer is soft enough you can discharge it just by chambering a round.

Try this sometime: Take fresh ammo, look at the primer, load up a mag with one round and then chamber it. Let it FLY. Pull the charging handle and eject it. You'll likely see some kind of mark on the back of the primer. That was your firing pin hitting the primer. Do it enough times, with the right/wrong primer and it'll go off. Maybe. Sometimes.

This is why we have rule #2: Never let your muzzle cover anything you're not willing to shoot.
 
2012-02-20 10:58:29 PM  

jbuist: Your Saiga 12 suffers from the same problem.


Scratch that. I was wrong. I did a quick search and discovered that the Saiga's intended to be used with commercial US ammo (like the shotguns) actually have a spring loaded firing pin. It helps, but I've seen video of an FN-FAL going into full on slam-fire mode when its firing pin spring was degraded due to age.
 
2012-02-20 11:00:04 PM  

cman: Talk about one...(puts on sunglasses)...magic bullet..YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAH


The urinal was also in back, and to the left
 
2012-02-20 11:14:00 PM  
Get in there and show me you can drop trou, maggots!
 
2012-02-20 11:15:31 PM  
"And THAT, officer, is exactly the way it happened!"

- Larry Craig
 
2012-02-20 11:18:14 PM  
Halfway through the headline, I was thinking it would end with the bullet in the man's scrotum. I was bitterly disappointed.
 
2012-02-20 11:18:52 PM  
who goes to the bathroom at a Walmart??
 
2012-02-20 11:20:29 PM  
FTFA:Andrew Seals entered a bathroom stall about 1 p.m., at a Walmart at McKellips and Greenfield roads, and began to sit down when his Ruger .357-caliber Western-style revolver fell out of its holster and fired a round around, Mesa police Sgt. Ed Wessing said.

FTFY

Jesus, it's like they don't even have copy editors.
 
2012-02-20 11:21:18 PM  
Idiots with firearms.
 
2012-02-20 11:22:26 PM  

wxboy: Halfway through the headline, I was thinking it would end with the bullet in the man's scrotum. I was bitterly disappointed.


Me too. This was anticlimactic... Thought it would be a funnier ending :(
 
2012-02-20 11:27:30 PM  
a Glock or other modern handgun would not have done that. Rugers are for guys who want to play cowboy.
 
2012-02-20 11:28:48 PM  
Dorks with guns, yay!

I feel safer already.
 
2012-02-20 11:29:50 PM  
If the stall door, the wall, the ceilIng light, and the floor also had guns, this never would've happened.
 
2012-02-20 11:30:18 PM  

jbuist: jbuist: Your Saiga 12 suffers from the same problem.

Scratch that. I was wrong. I did a quick search and discovered that the Saiga's intended to be used with commercial US ammo (like the shotguns) actually have a spring loaded firing pin. It helps, but I've seen video of an FN-FAL going into full on slam-fire mode when its firing pin spring was degraded due to age.


Yeah - I was about to point out the spring loaded pin. But Yikes. I'll keep it in mind. And yeah - I NEVER let my muzzle cover anything I'm not prepared to shoot. Well - except maybe the TV, when a gun is stripped for cleaning and I'm laying out the parts.
 
2012-02-20 11:31:11 PM  
Arizona is the new Florida because they come here to escape the humidity, hurricanes, and bad mortgages.
 
2012-02-20 11:31:27 PM  
As if I needed another reason to avoid the men's room at Walmart?
 
2012-02-20 11:32:19 PM  

TwistedIvory: This was a revolver. Revolvers generally don't have external safeties; instead, the common practice is to use a transfer bar. The transfer bar slides between the firing pin and the primer only when the trigger is in the fully-rearward position (i.e. shot fired); otherwise, in case of a drop/fumble/hammer slap, the firing pin will not contact the primer and the round will not discharge.

Revolvers are almost always carried in "Condition 1." It sounds like this one was of poor design.


Or, you know, you could leave one chamber empty and keep the hammer resting there so there is nothing to strike, should the gun be "bumped".

Pretty sure this used to be common practice by people who lived with/by the gun.
 
2012-02-20 11:33:23 PM  

redTiburon: a Glock or other modern handgun would not have done that. Rugers are for guys who want to play cowboy.


Don't know much about Ruger firearms, do ya?
 
2012-02-20 11:33:53 PM  
The aristocrats?
 
2012-02-20 11:36:28 PM  
I'd shoot the printer paper dispenser out of frustration following a beef stew blow out. They put a 20 lb. roll in a see-through case and make you work for every sheet. Pooping your pants in a Walmart? Never!
 
2012-02-20 11:36:52 PM  
An armed commode is a polite commode.
 
2012-02-20 11:38:39 PM  
With my lame headline, I attempted to capture the dynamic tension between a penis and a pistol, between orgasm and the firing of a weapon, while referencing the Freudian lyrics of a mid twentieth century boy band.

"Walmart dude goes into the restroom, sits down on the stall, whips it out and shoots all over the wall. Which richocets off the ceiling light and strikes feet away from a man taking a piss. Happiness is a warm gun, bang bang shoot shoot"
 
2012-02-20 11:40:07 PM  

pisceandreamer: OK, someone tell me why Arizona doesn't have a tag yet?




Because there's not enough room in the allotted space for it in English and Spanish.
 
2012-02-20 11:41:02 PM  
Awcomeon, who hasn't had this happen to them?
 
2012-02-20 11:41:06 PM  
www.hotflick.net
 
2012-02-20 11:41:38 PM  
If urinal guy had been armed, he could have defended himself, right? If someone shoots you, you can kill them in Arizona I assume.
 
2012-02-20 11:42:44 PM  
Put that thing away, you're going to get us all killed!
 
2012-02-20 11:43:44 PM  

redTiburon: a Glock or other modern handgun would not have done that. Rugers are for guys who want to play cowboy.


Not necessarily,

My Ruger:
img62.imageshack.us

The Ruger he was most likely manhandling:
images.cabelas.com
 
2012-02-20 11:45:14 PM  

fusillade762: Put that thing away, you're going to get us all killed!


But it's magnetically sealed!
 
2012-02-20 11:47:09 PM  
Gun porn thread?

"You know if had cross-checked the hexi-dermiturge and filed down the drezzle valve regulator on the multi-cross dingle gauge at least three hours before ratcheting the wang nozzle points everything would have been just fine."
 
2012-02-20 11:49:14 PM  

KarmicDisaster: If urinal guy had been armed, he could have defended himself, right? If someone shoots you, you can kill them in Arizona I assume.


He would have blown the place into the alleyway with his legally purchased and signed for high explosives.
 
2012-02-20 11:50:06 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: redTiburon: a Glock or other modern handgun would not have done that. Rugers are for guys who want to play cowboy.

Don't know much about Ruger firearms, do ya?


I still haven't sent in my old model Single Six to get the new drop-proof action, I just park my hammer over an empty chamber. Guess he doesn't know that any single action Ruger after 73 is safe to drop and that they will retrofit any older model for no cost other than shipping it in.

/Single action Rugers are for people who know how to shoot, Glocks are for people who want to play gangsta and hold them sideways and act all thugnificent and shiat

//No offense, Glock people. I know plenty of people that handle their plastic firearms responsibly
 
2012-02-20 11:50:42 PM  

croesius: redTiburon: a Glock or other modern handgun would not have done that. Rugers are for guys who want to play cowboy.

Not necessarily,

My Ruger:
[img62.imageshack.us image 640x360]

The Ruger he was most likely manhandling:
[images.cabelas.com image 380x380]


ok, Ruger gun porn time....
got one of these...
4.bp.blogspot.com

and one of these..
www.mossycreekcustom.com

plus a couple of 10/22s
 
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