hitlersbrain: So, when cloning is perfected will we have to go through the whole Lintilla / Allitnel thing?

If we could find a way to make Allitnil production affordable, they could actually be a great source of quick-release, easy-to-transport energy.

Amos Quito: debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?

[i0.kym-cdn.com image 400x400]

A prescription for a 1 month brand name oral contraceptive is upwards of $80 (3 months for a generic is upwards of $80) [without copay]. Brand name copays are still helluh expensive, and a lot of times require a PA from the physician, meaning the special ones who don't call in their prescription ahead of time have to wait a week or two to receive it. A box of ~30 condoms, on the other hand, is $5. Take your pick.

/Deals Drugs for a Living
/Is also a devout Catholic
/thinks the Catholic rhetoric against contraceptives is archaic bullshiat stemming from a debate in the 1930s and totally irrelevant to religion.

Baumli: Amos Quito: debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?

[i0.kym-cdn.com image 400x400]

A prescription for a 1 month brand name oral contraceptive is upwards of $80 (3 months for a generic is upwards of $80) [without copay]. Brand name copays are still helluh expensive, and a lot of times require a PA from the physician, meaning the special ones who don't call in their prescription ahead of time have to wait a week or two to receive it. A box of ~30 condoms, on the other hand, is $5. Take your pick.


Also, condoms aren't manufactured by pharmaceutical giants.

So there's that.

Amos Quito: Baumli: Amos Quito: debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?

[i0.kym-cdn.com image 400x400]

A prescription for a 1 month brand name oral contraceptive is upwards of $80 (3 months for a generic is upwards of $80) [without copay]. Brand name copays are still helluh expensive, and a lot of times require a PA from the physician, meaning the special ones who don't call in their prescription ahead of time have to wait a week or two to receive it. A box of ~30 condoms, on the other hand, is $5. Take your pick.


Also, condoms aren't manufactured by pharmaceutical giants.

So there's that.

And the fact that has been brought up here many times - not all women who use the pill use it primarily for contraception.

debug: I realize that IUD's and such are also covered, but again, that's for women. The rule covers all contraception for women. I'm asking why men's contraceptives aren't covered by insurance also.

See if you can get your doctor to write you an rx for condoms and then try to use your insurance to pay for them at the pharmacy.

Actually, a vasectomy is covered under many plans, but not the current plans by many Catholic hospitals or universities. Under this legislation they would be covered.

fozziewazzi: Do we really need surveys? How's this - give the me the average family size for catholics 40 years ago, and for today. Whether most catholics are using contraceptives today will be self-evident.

Uh, did you ever take a moment to consider the possibility that today's Catholics are more devout and are spending so much time at mass and reading the bible that they're too exhausted for sex?

*snicker*

Pardon me if I find it difficult to give a flying fark about what a bunch of child molesters think. Sorry... it's just true.

ArkAngel: Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.

Actually, the article does a great job of breaking down exactly WHY it's a bogus statistic.

This. It's like a lung disease study who put people who quit ten years ago in the same category as current two-pack-a-day smokers

Or the cell phone/cancer study that put the heaviest users in the control group.

/Might not be the exact same, but still messed up. And this was the go-to study that was highly touted last year by the cell phone industry.

RE Lando Lincoln
"That really hurts, man. I think my balls are very youthful, and here you are, bringing me down. Happy Monday to you too."

I'm sure your gonads are stunning, but since they're attached to someone older than 14 years of age (I assume), they're a no-fly zone for kid farkers.

Buck up. I bet someone out there wants to lavish attention on your balls. For free, even.

factoryconnection: I can't imagine that level of micromanagement by an omniscient being.

What really gets me is it's the retroactive murder of a person who never existed. I mean not even Phillip K. Dick would go there.

I am for a condom free heaven, though.

/"That's heeeeaven to me."
//Sam Cook rolls over in his grave.

DarnoKonrad: debug: The rule covers all contraception for women. I'm asking why men's contraceptives aren't covered by insurance also.


There's really no such thing as "mens contraceptive," because they can't get pregnant. But condoms, as a barrier contraceptive to prevent women from becoming pregnant, are also covered by this rule.

"All Food and Drug Administration approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures, and patient education and counseling for all women with reproductive capacity."

So MILFs aren't going to be protected from STD?

Baumli: Amos Quito: debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?

[i0.kym-cdn.com image 400x400]

A prescription for a 1 month brand name oral contraceptive is upwards of $80 (3 months for a generic is upwards of $80) [without copay]. Brand name copays are still helluh expensive, and a lot of times require a PA from the physician, meaning the special ones who don't call in their prescription ahead of time have to wait a week or two to receive it. A box of ~30 condoms, on the other hand, is $5. Take your pick.


Counterpoint: bareback is way sexier, and feels better as well.

I'll gladly chip in a bit of $$$ for my GF's pills, plus it means that she pretty much has to.

/just kidding
//she pays for her OWN pills

davideggy: 0% of Catholic women have ever used birth control. If they used birth control, they are not a true Catholic.

Catholicism explicitly states that basically everyone sins, and it doesn't disqualify you from being Catholic. You just have to confess and be forgiven occasionally.

They don't engage in that no true scotsman stuff, it's one of the few ways in which the Church is actually superior to its protestant cousins.

EbolaNYC: It's clear that what is needed here is a panel discussion with Celibate * wise older men to tell us all what the modern sexual practices of women are and how they should handle it. Right?

FTFY

/ * YMMV they are supposedly Celibate
// Until an alter boy comes around

kpaxoid: A Catholic woman is permitted to prevent pregnancy using mathematics, but not physics or chemistry.

Duh 'cause everyone knows that women are bad at math and stuff

/ Right?

Fubini: Jim_Callahan: They don't engage in that no true scotsman stuff, it's one of the few ways in which the Church is actually superior to its protestant cousins.

What branch of Christianity says that it's possible to never sin?


None of them teach it. But many of the laity seem to believe it. Or at least, that THEIR sins aren't nearly as awful as the sins of their neighbors. After all, when YOU sin, it's because the temptation is too great, the struggle too difficult, and no one could hope to win. When OTHER people sin, it's because they clearly aren't even trying. Those filthy, unrepentant sinners. Where is their sense of shame?

Fubini: Jim_Callahan: They don't engage in that no true scotsman stuff, it's one of the few ways in which the Church is actually superior to its protestant cousins.

What branch of Christianity says that it's possible to never sin?

One of the fundamental differences between Catholicism and Protestantism is that protestants believe that absolution of sins is a gift from God, and only a gift (meaning there is nothing a person or the Church can do to grant forgiveness of sins). Contrast this to the Catholic approach that requires confession and penance for absolution.

Remember, though, that saying all Protestants believe the same thing is like saying that Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum believe the same things because they're both Republican. Unlike the Catholic church, there is no central Protestant authority over theology and practice, so there's a much more diverse range of beliefs that fit under that term and there's no single official definition of what it means (in theological terms) to be a Protestant.

I thought that some aspects of Protestantism were derived from Luther's writings (e.g. faith not works, James is "an epistle of straw", everyone can go to the Bible themselves instead of needing to go through a priest, etc.) and a shared bible version (different from the Catholics). While there are Lutheran ideas that are clearly not practiced by modern churches, I thought that his work formed the foundation of their faith, and that most of the disagreements were on implementation and details, not on the theology.

I mean, it's not like the Catholicism that is practiced in the US matches the Catholicism practiced in many other countries in detail. They match on theology (role of the Pope, role of the virgin Mary, etc.), but implementation differs in different areas.

Jim_Callahan: davideggy: 0% of Catholic women have ever used birth control. If they used birth control, they are not a true Catholic.

Catholicism explicitly states that basically everyone sins, and it doesn't disqualify you from being Catholic. You just have to confess and be forgiven occasionally.

They don't engage in that no true scotsman stuff, it's one of the few ways in which the Church is actually superior to its protestant cousins.

Technically true...........but you're not being a very good Catholic if you intentionally sin on a regular basis knowing that you'll just confess to it and be square with Jebus.

Born_Again_Bavarian: Technically true...........but you're not being a very good Catholic if you intentionally sin on a regular basis knowing that you'll just confess to it and be square with Jebus.

Dude, that was TOTALLY my strategy until I finally walked away in my teens.

Number40: The basis of Christianity is not that Christ was born. It IS based on the resurrection.

Actually for the first centuries it was Jesus' birth that was the big deal, the whole resurrection thing took a while to become a big deal.

Cut to the farking chase. This is mere quibbling by pols and priest's whose only direct interest in furburgers is either in getting into them or getting away from them. In all cases the underlying theme is all about reasserting control over the logistics (ours, biatch - not yours).

Just do a quick search on legislation, introduced in various states, over the past decade, that would require a woman to report ALL miscarriages to local law enforcement.

/what is that old, Jewish, prayer-hosanna? `thank you, lord, that I wasn't born a woman'?
//Dworkin, et al, were wrong in asserting all penetration is rape - but, hey, ladies, you are going to get `raped' (by a most unpleasant set of characters).
///vote `em out, or let them in...

Born_Again_Bavarian: Jim_Callahan: davideggy: 0% of Catholic women have ever used birth control. If they used birth control, they are not a true Catholic.

Catholicism explicitly states that basically everyone sins, and it doesn't disqualify you from being Catholic. You just have to confess and be forgiven occasionally.

They don't engage in that no true scotsman stuff, it's one of the few ways in which the Church is actually superior to its protestant cousins.

Technically true...........but you're not being a very good Catholic if you intentionally sin on a regular basis knowing that you'll just confess to it and be square with Jebus.

You're also risking that you won't die suddenly before you're capable of confession.

I actually brought up this very scenario with a priest and his answer was you have to actually mean the confession. You have to truly confess in your heart and God will know. So you can't pretend to confess on your deathbed just because you want to get into heaven, you have to actually be remorseful and repentant and whatnot.

If you think you can pull one over on God, you must not think very highly of him.

Mike Chewbacca: BigBooper: /dig far enough and deep enough, and every one is dirty

CSB: Henry VIII is a second cousin of mine, and Oliver Cromwell is a first cousin, numerous times removed of course. Edward Whalley is an uncle. Nothing says "dirt" quite like a regicide.

Not true.

"Second cousin" would mean that you need to go back 2 generations to find a sibling relationship. I doubt your grandparents were siblings with Henry. I doubt your parents were siblings of Oliver.

"Removed" refers to differing generations. Your second cousins parents are your first cousins once removed. Your second cousins' kids are your second cousins once removed.

tjfly: >98% of people think contraception is a good thing. Why is this an issue? Seriously, put it to referendum and be done with this nonsense.

I'd rather they just keep waging their war on women all the way up until November. Then 53% of the voting age populace will be making sure to get to the polls to tell these fundie pricks off.

Seriously, GOP, you're waging war against over HALF of potential voters.... And that's just on this one issue.

If the GOP doesn't get their asses handed to them in November I will lose the last remaining bit of hope I have for this country.

Don't Troll Me Bro!: If the GOP doesn't get their asses handed to them in November I will lose the last remaining bit of hope I have for this country.

If they don't, then the Taliban will have a political party by the next election, running on the same "principles"

My mom and dad were some of the most devout Catholics on Earth and they still told me to use a rubber. The Republicans aren't going to get any new Catholic votes over this, outside of the clergy.

How many were sexuallly active while wearing seat belts?

ajt167: Okay, I think all forms of contraception should be covered and all of that stuff, but I don't know why a statistic like this, true or not, is relevent. The view of a church doesn't change just because the followers disagree.

However, the view of the the church isn't law, nor should law be based on "this is what some celibate male church leader wants".

If they want to ask their followers not to use contraception, they are welcome to do so. When they start trying to force that choice on people, they are crossing a line.

It really doesn't matter what the leaders of the Roman Catholic Church think. What matters is that Roman Catholics the world over continue to support that thinking, both financially and tacitly. Catholics will tell you to your face that they "don't agree" with a lot of Church teaching and rules, but they still bankroll it, and remain silent within the Church. Which is as good as agreeing.

So I'm not impressed with the lip service I hear from walkaday Catholics. I don't care what you say. It's what you *do* that matters. Stop tithing, or cut back on your tithing. Give directly to nondenominational charities doing the same kinds of 'good works' -- there are lots of them -- and tell your Church leaders why. (You can do it anonymously.) Stage walkouts from Mass, as self-respecting Catholics did in Maine when they heard virulently anti-gay political rhetoric from the pulpit. Stop buying all that stupid Catholic crap -- Jesus cares what you think and feel and do, not what you spend, and especially not what you spend on a Church that's already very wealthy (despite claims to the contrary -- but of course you can't know, since the books are closed to *your* eyes). Be bold enough to speak out, to speak up and challenge what you're told. Surely, God's True Church would not condemn one who desires to be clear in mind and spirit. Those old guys in robes are just men, and extremely fallible, just like you and me. They *can* lie and sin. Some of them *do*. The evidence has been in front of you for many years, so you can't claim ignorance.

Whatever you do, DO SOMETHING. And until you do, don't try to placate me with your platitudes. You're only insulting me and making excuses for yourself, and I can't respect that.

Troy McClure: The fact that you can go to any Catholic church and find next to no families with 8 or more kids tells you all or almost all Catholic women are using birth control.

THIS THIS THIS.

With a few caveats: does not apply in certain areas (namely ones with mass in Spanish) and there may be 1-2 families with 6+ kids... but it's a rarity these days.

I went to at least dozen Catholic churches growing up (working to the upper end of middle class, did CYO leadership stuff). I can count the families with 6+ kids on one hand... they were pretty obvious in the pews.

Hell, even growing up from 2nd - 12th grade I only knew one family with 6+ kids, and they had two sets of twins in there. They were Catholic, though... roughly half my classmates were (Christmas and Easter Only for at least half of those too, though).

Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.

Actually, the article does a great job of breaking down exactly WHY it's a bogus statistic.

It's only a bogus statistic if you don't grasp the concept of the present perfect.

"But while the study says that 98 percent of "sexually experienced Catholic women" have "ever used a contraceptive method other than natural planning," the data shown in the report does not actually back up that claim. In fact, a supplementary table in the report, on page 8, even appears to undermine that statistic, since it shows that 11 percent of Catholic women currently using no method at all. That has led to criticism of the statistic."

If you think that "ever" and "currently" are synonyms, your criticism is invalid.

brantgoose: Hey, it's like one of those silent "e" bits from the Electric Company! The power of silent "g".

He can turn Nome into a gnome?

ongbok: debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?

Because there are plenty of places to get free condoms, but there aren't places where you can get free female birth control. If you can't figure out where to get free condoms you aren't smart enough to be having sex.

Your mom's house?

dosboot: The media keeps trumpeting the lie that this is just about birth control. I is also about forcing a church/religious institutions to finance abortions. The media also trumpets that it is just the Catholics who are against this plan. The Orthodox Jews, Southern Baptists, and Muslims have all objected to it.

So now "lie" is Newspeak for "anything I don't like." Got it.

Wyalt Derp: This survey is BS because it only counts Catholic women who are sexually active and not the ones that just lie there.

+1

/Best post of the thread.

Lando Lincoln: Fubini: The government does have a right to determine whether you're a sincere believer, which clearly you would not be.

That's total bullshiat. Who the fark are they do tell me that my beliefs are not sincere? When Dagon comes down from his lava mountain to lay judgment on them, they'll farking rue the day that they told me my beliefs were not sincere.

You tell 'em, muthsera.

The article is right. I'm convinced. The statistics are incorrect and therefore a bunch of superstitious old men in dresses who burn incense and rub oil on each others feet and run a child rape crime syndicate really are the ones who should determine our national health care policy.