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(Washington Post)   98% of Catholic woman have used contraception at some point. But since they're not using all the time, or may no longer want to use it, it's a "lie"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 256
    More: Asinine, Catholics, Guttmacher Institute, contraceptives, reproductive healths, non-profit organizations, effective methods, House Minority Leader, Catholic bishop  
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11146 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2012 at 11:01 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-20 11:29:18 AM  
The number doesn't hold up the way Pelosi used it, but neither does anything in that study really invalidate Pelosi's argument.

Not using contraception is right up there with Fish on Fridays: Catholics may flit in and out of proper 'observance', but that lackadaisical attitude itself underscores that it just isn't that important to them or their faith. That said, adherence doesn't have much to do with the correctness of religious freedom. But the point was to underline the Church's position as in-sincere. They didn't raise a stink when contraceptive coverage became legal precedent twelve years ago. They didn't raise a stink in any of the individual States that have previously codified that into law. Their raising a stink *now*, over an issue of this level of (un)importance, exposes it as an outrage of convenience. A bit of political theater performed in an election year to garner favors from the Right for providing a straw man to burn down and from the Left to just shut up already.
 
2012-02-20 11:29:28 AM  
Seems relevant
Link (new window)
 
2012-02-20 11:29:39 AM  
I would like to point out that the idea that Catholic girls are all sluts is a damned lie.

I've known many Catholic girls who were born novices. Some of them are now nuns or mothers (maybe some have become both in the fulness of time), but certainly not sluts.

And not all of them were fugly. Some were merely plump or plain.
 
2012-02-20 11:30:03 AM  

Starry Heavens: I guess I'll repost this from the redlit thread a few days ago:

That was a baffling article. Certainly, Pelosi should have said, "98 percent of Catholic women, I am told by all of you, have used birth control to determine the size and timing of their families." Absolutely.

The scientific nitpick -- that it's not 98% of all Catholic women, but just Catholic "women aged 15-44 who have ever had sex" -- is just odd. Sure, the percentage is higher because it excludes 15-year-old virgins, but that doesn't seem terribly important for a public policy debate. That's like yelling at someone who says "16-year-olds have higher crash rates than drivers of any other age" because they didn't specify 16-year-old drivers and less than 30% of 16-year-olds have a license. Having a driver's license and having sex go without saying in those statistics (in non-scientific contexts).

The only reasonable complaint I can think of is that the study asked people who are currently Catholic what they have done at any point in their lives, so they might have used birth control before converting to Catholicism. This article, however, does not address that.

This is really just... odd.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-02-20 11:30:04 AM  

Lando Lincoln: We all know Catholic girls are total sluts. That's just a fact.


I think you are just judging them on appearance, they can't help it if they are required to wear these outfits to school.

www.wholesalepricee.com

ak.buy.com

undergradrag.files.wordpress.com

www.costumeshopper.com

ecx.images-amazon.com

//hotlinked
 
2012-02-20 11:30:07 AM  
It's clear that what is needed here is a panel discussion with wise older men to tell us all what the modern sexual practices of women are and how they should handle it. Right?
 
2012-02-20 11:30:42 AM  
Occasionally Christ does get a pretty young bride.

It may seem a shame, but God moves in mysterious ways, his blunders to perform.
 
2012-02-20 11:30:47 AM  

debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?


Because there are plenty of places to get free condoms, but there aren't places where you can get free female birth control. If you can't figure out where to get free condoms you aren't smart enough to be having sex.
 
2012-02-20 11:30:48 AM  

Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.

Actually, the article does a great job of breaking down exactly WHY it's a bogus statistic.


This. I'm as liberal as they get, but I know how to read a g-d survey. I'm so tired of hashing this out with my other liberal friends.
 
2012-02-20 11:31:14 AM  

MBK: Can someone tell me why 1) We are listening to Catholic bishops and 2) We are listening to Catholic bishops.


Only thing I was to hear from a Bishop is the death rattle in his throat.

Kiddy farkers.
 
2012-02-20 11:31:24 AM  

ArkAngel: This. It's like a lung disease study who put people who quit ten years ago in the same category as current two-pack-a-day smokers


Up until the 1990s if someone ever smoked a cigarette - as long as their death wasn't by an accident - they were counted in the 'caused by smoking' number.
 
2012-02-20 11:31:34 AM  

Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.


So it's "a lie" because because it only took into account women who might actually be realistically expected to NEED birth control, and not nuns, elderly nuns, and ten-year-olds who can outrun their parish Priest?
 
2012-02-20 11:31:40 AM  

DarnoKonrad: debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?

Wut? The rule covers all contraception -- not just hormonal contraception.


I realize that IUD's and such are also covered, but again, that's for women. The rule covers all contraception for women. I'm asking why men's contraceptives aren't covered by insurance also.

See if you can get your doctor to write you an rx for condoms and then try to use your insurance to pay for them at the pharmacy.
 
2012-02-20 11:31:54 AM  

Lando Lincoln: We all know Catholic Baptist girls are total sluts. That's just a fact.


FTFY, because I have never met a Catholic girl (a real one, not just what her parents call themselves) who is a slut. You may eventually get into her pants without marrying her, but only if you're in a long-term relationship. And then you have to deal with her guilt trip.

/been there, done that.
 
2012-02-20 11:32:10 AM  

Lumpmoose: Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.

Actually, the article does a great job of breaking down exactly WHY it's a bogus statistic.

Aged 15-44 and had sexual experience AND identified as Catholic. Increasing the older age bracket wouldn't necessarily lower the percentage because you'd be adding women with even more life experience but you'd get women who lived most of their younger adult life before the sex revolution--not really a modern perspective. Lowering the age below 15 or counting virgins would be meaningless. It would artificially lower the percentage without revealing any useful information. Separate the wheat from the chaff, etc. The statistic is very useful but should still be presented honestly.

I'm curious how many of those surveyed women were nuns thinking about their pre-vow (or post-vow) lifestyle.


AND not pregnant AND not post-partum AND not trying to get pregnant. Narrows the field even further.
 
2012-02-20 11:32:48 AM  
The easy fix for this controversy is to require by law that all men, unless married and specifically having relations with his wife in order to produce a child, to wear a condom during each sexual encounter.

This makes everyone happy right? The womanfolk will not have to take preventative measures. There will be very few unplanned pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases will decline, and the gheys will be easy to spot as they will be the only men without condoms in their wallet. ta da!

I see no downside to this solution and expect the Evangelicals to back me 100%.
 
2012-02-20 11:35:11 AM  
Hey, this statistic is just as valid as saying that people that have given up looking for a job are no longer "unemployed".

That's like saying fat people that have given up losing weight are no longer obese.
 
2012-02-20 11:35:46 AM  

debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?


It's not prescribed. You can't write off over the counter medication either.
 
2012-02-20 11:36:36 AM  

ongbok: debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?

Because there are plenty of places to get free condoms, but there aren't places where you can get free female birth control. If you can't figure out where to get free condoms you aren't smart enough to be having sex.


Well, my gf in college got free BC at planned parenthood. Can you not do that anymore? As far as I know, you don't get turned away from planned parenthood, so anyone should be able to get free BCP's there.

So since you can get free condoms and free BCP's, Are you saying that women shouldn't have their birth control covered by insurance just like men don't?

Just looking for a little equality in the rules, you see.
 
2012-02-20 11:37:13 AM  
Aren't 2% of Catholic women Nuns?
 
2012-02-20 11:37:50 AM  

Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.


My mother was a nun for 10 years. She quit the order and eventually married my father. She told us continuously throughout our upbringing that she and my father were virgins until they got married, and that premarital sex and birth control were wrong. As an adult I found out I was the result of a broken condom or something. My mother let that fact slip out during an argument about abortion, saying "If your father and I believed in abortion you wouldn't be here! You were unplanned because birth control isn't 100% reliable!" So here you had an ex-nun, someone who you'd imagine was fairly Catholic, constantly preaching against birth control then accidentally admitting that sure, they used it. My point is that the study might be bogus because people lie. They wouldn't lie about using birth control, they would lie about NOT using birth control (especially when they would be judged morally for doing so.) My guess is the percentage is higher.
 
2012-02-20 11:38:10 AM  
How is this a surprise to anyone? I'm not catholic, but I have a number of friends who are and exactly all of then use contraception for the purpose of family planning. My friends are all currently in the 23-28ish age bracket.

In fact, I do know two Catholics (aunt-in-law and her daughter) who actually abstain from contraception, but they're both slightly crazy. As in, birther levels of crazy. The daughter is less crazy, but the guy she married was on track to become a Catholic priest before she came along... so that might be where she's coming from.
 
2012-02-20 11:38:29 AM  

Lenny.Bostoch: Aren't 2% of Catholic women Nuns?


HA! See my post above.
 
2012-02-20 11:38:49 AM  
My wife and I were both raised Catholic, I went to a Catholic school, was an altar boy, etc. etc.

The freaky shiat we did before we were married would make 70's glam rockers blush. You bet your ass we used contraception.

Then we got married, had kids, and now we're boring.

/what were we talking about?
 
2012-02-20 11:38:50 AM  
0% of Catholic women have ever used birth control. If they used birth control, they are not a true Catholic.
 
2012-02-20 11:38:53 AM  
Huh? What did you guys think natural family planning was? They do a bunch of tests and determine what days in a woman's cycle is most likely to result in a pregnancy. The couple then decides what they do on those days. The church views it as technically not contriception; but it accomplishes the same thing. The thing is; it doesn't always work.
 
2012-02-20 11:38:58 AM  

debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?


Yes, why don't we require a prescription in order to get condoms? Things that make you go hmmm.
 
2012-02-20 11:39:06 AM  

Egoy3k: When the result you disagree with is 98%, quibbling over minor inaccuracies in the data collection method is pretty dumb. Unless the statistics are grossly inaccurate no amount of nit-picking the data is going to change the overall message.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The point is crysal clear, semantics be damned. The fact is an overwhelming majority of Catholic women (all women really) use birth control. They are just pissed for being on the wrong side of history....again.
 
2012-02-20 11:40:12 AM  
I wonder if any nuns use contraception just in case they are raped? After all, if there is a class of women who could use contraception without sin, even in the eyes of the Church, it would be those who have no business conceiving even if they wanted to, and thus are not preventing the birth of a child God wishes to be born.

Nuns might make a great testing ground for the safety (but not the efficacy) of contraceptives, seeing as they are among the healthiest women going. Presumably you'd have to approach a religion where nuns are not forced to be sexually inactive for life but enter the religious order for a fixed period of time with an option to return to the world. I wonder if Buddhist nuns would be a suitable population? Do they take vows in perpetuity? What is the re-lapse rate? Are they healthy like Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant religious orders?

Any hoo, how does one prevent the birth of a child God wishes to be born? If he wishes a child to be born, He's not going to fool around. It WILL be born, yea, even unto a virgin of the purest chastity, like those sharks that are always bearing live young (there might be a small male lurking in the tank but it's unlikely in many cases).

If God really wants more souls, contraception and abortion aren't going to work. Zombie babies will be popping out all over. Yikes! An argument for bottle-feeding.
 
2012-02-20 11:41:10 AM  

JackieRabbit: FTFY, because I have never met a Catholic girl (a real one, not just what her parents call themselves) who is a slut. You may eventually get into her pants without marrying her, but only if you're in a long-term relationship. And then you have to deal with her guilt trip.

/been there, done that.


I think the girlfriend with whom I exchanged virginities with may have been raised catholic. She was not (and certainly is not) practicing then, but she most assuredly was a SLUT. I only held her infidelity against her because she tried to f*ck many of my friends. Otherwise, I would have just chalked it up to "youth."

Beyond that, looking back, I've been quite astonished at just how sexually conservative many of my female friends/dates have turned out to be. These are women I've met at bars and while drinking at parties... not some church-group playdate!

But hey, as it turns out some very intelligent women just take too long to green-light sex for some guys, and they inadvertently remain virgins much longer than planned.
 
2012-02-20 11:41:34 AM  
This bogus stat was debunked within 24 hours of it coming out but as it nothing more than a PR story for Obama... Why should "facts" get in the way?

So who did they ask? All Catholics? Pffft... how about 'people having sex but trying to avoid pregnancy'...

So really 98% of ANY group of people who are having sex but not trying to have children are using contraception. This is what we call "common sense", and even if it were true that 98% of Catholics were using contraception, that changes precisely nothing as that's between them and the church and it has nothing at all to do with whether or not you can force religious institutions to cover contraception when it's against the teachings of their religion.

But there's no liberal media, no sir.
 
2012-02-20 11:42:30 AM  

iheartscotch: Huh? What did you guys think natural family planning was? They do a bunch of tests and determine what days in a woman's cycle is most likely to result in a pregnancy. The couple then decides what they do on those days. The church views it as technically not contriception; but it accomplishes the same thing. The thing is; it doesn't always work.


There's a word for the category of people that employ that method: They're called "parents."

That method is really good for getting pregnant. Avoiding it - not so much. But, if you are trying to conceive, give it a go.
 
2012-02-20 11:43:13 AM  

factoryconnection: The acid test has been applied to this stat, and it isn't saying what many have read into it.

However, among the rest of us that read "98% of sexually-experienced, Catholic women" and thought "98% of women that had had sex and are Catholic" were correct. The Church's idea on what my female congregants have been up to is completely at odds with what they've done. Furthermore, even if you distill it to "actively sexual and actively using birth control," you still get an overwhelming majority.

There are lots of rules in our church; some make sense and some don't. But when it comes to sinning, Jesus laid out one to replace the curses of the Mosaic law: do unto others as you would have done unto you (and the variants among the gospels). So, here's a question, Catholic Bishops, Cardinals, et al: how is a prohibition on barrier contraception a compassionate law? How is the use of a condom a sin, which is to say how does it do unto another as I would not have done unto me?

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ABORTION. I'm not talking about abortifacients, because the entering assumption of "others" is a huge debate. But barrier protection... no fetuses involved. Vasectomies and tubal ligations... no fetuses involved. How do these break the "golden rule?"


Hormonal birth control is not an abortifacent. The copper IUD can be, but the hormonal version is not. Hormonal birth control's overwhelming mechanism is to prevent ovulation entirely (therefore no fetuses). In the rare case that ovulation still occurs, the pill has caused changes to the uterus and cervix that either prevent the sperm from getting anywhere near the egg, or prevent a zygote from implanting in the uterine wall. Neither of these secondary mechanisms are abortions, because a pregnancy does not start until the zygote implants.

An implanted egg is safe from hormonal methods, as they just make the body think its pregnant anyway.
 
2012-02-20 11:43:23 AM  
Also, I'd be surprised if a lot of people didn't think that the reason for prohibiting contraception was slightly theologically shaky. I know there are some people who are happy to just take the Church at face value for everything they say, but there are also a lot of believers who don't.
 
2012-02-20 11:43:45 AM  
When you get done with all the anal retentive nit picking you still find that the central point that Pelosi made correct.

It may not be 98% but it's still the overwhelming majority.
 
2012-02-20 11:44:30 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: Yes, why don't we require a prescription in order to get condoms? Things that make you go hmmm.


Probably because they aren't drugs. Even if you say "hey I have a latex allergy..." guess what, you don't need a prescription for latex lab gloves that do the same basic thing. Not a drug: no prescription.

Apples:apples: the female condom is available without a prescription.
 
2012-02-20 11:44:51 AM  
The media keeps trumpeting the lie that this is just about birth control. I is also about forcing a church/religious institutions to finance abortions. The media also trumpets that it is just the Catholics who are against this plan. The Orthodox Jews, Southern Baptists, and Muslims have all objected to it.

Next up, Obama mandates that the federal government must inspect and confiscate unhealthy brown bagged lunches in schools. Eat government issued "chicken" nuggets, slave.
 
2012-02-20 11:45:16 AM  
So what I really want to know is which part of the 2% of the woman that didn't take the pill?
 
2012-02-20 11:45:26 AM  
This survey is BS because it only counts Catholic women who are sexually active and not the ones that just lie there.
 
2012-02-20 11:45:41 AM  

davideggy: 0% of Catholic women have ever used birth control. If they used birth control, they are not a true Catholic.


Here's what a lot of them do. The Church says no, they say I don't want more kids. So they kind of fall away from the Church until menopause or they have to have a hysterectomy. Then they go back to being Catholics and thinking that the Church's prohibition against contraception is righteous. We call them hypocrites.
 
2012-02-20 11:46:30 AM  

iheartscotch: Huh? What did you guys think natural family planning was? They do a bunch of tests and determine what days in a woman's cycle is most likely to result in a pregnancy. The couple then decides what they do on those days. The church views it as technically not contriception; but it accomplishes the same thing. The thing is; it doesn't always work.


I knew a couple that were dead-set on using that method, more because the wife didn't like the idea of hormonal treatments. They must have literally gotten pregnant on the honeymoon.
 
2012-02-20 11:46:35 AM  
It's a provable fact, however, that 100% of catholics are morons, so why can't we just discredit them on that, and leave birth control out of it?
 
2012-02-20 11:46:55 AM  
I have a few problems with the article:

1) As many people have already pointed out, showing that 98% of sexually experienced women in the age range have used contraception is a reasonable interpretation of the data. This does indicate that there is widespread support among Catholic women for using methods other than NFP to plan the size of their families. I'm assuming, as were the study authors, that women who have never had sex don't need help to plan the size of their families.

2) The conclusion of the blogger that the number should be 68% is a little bizarre. They claim that this is the percentage women who are _currently_ using contraception. How does that change the fact that a much larger percentage of women (who were sexually experienced and in that age range) have used contraception to plan the size of their families? Is the blogger assuming that these women have changed their stance and consider it sinful just because they do not use it right now?

Also - how do his numbers add up? 68% use contraception, 11% used nothing, 4% used other, and 2% used NFP. That adds up to 85%. I'm guessing the blogger has either misreported the results or omitted a fairly large category of women who are sexually experienced but are not trying to get pregnant. If the author artificially decreased the percentage to 68% by including in the denominator women who have never had sex (e.g. most 14 year-olds and younger) or who are trying to get pregnant, then the author is the one who deserves a few Pinocchios.
 
2012-02-20 11:47:19 AM  

factoryconnection: Mike Chewbacca: Yes, why don't we require a prescription in order to get condoms? Things that make you go hmmm.

Probably because they aren't drugs. Even if you say "hey I have a latex allergy..." guess what, you don't need a prescription for latex lab gloves that do the same basic thing. Not a drug: no prescription.

Apples:apples: the female condom is available without a prescription.


I was being snarky. I almost crossed out the "hmmm" and wrote "herpderp" but I thought that everyone's sarcasmeter would be properly calibrated. I forgot that not only is today a Monday, it's also a holiday for many people.
 
2012-02-20 11:47:46 AM  

CUZN_Ovoids: Lando Lincoln: We all know Catholic girls are total sluts. That's just a fact.

Agreed, and that's why we love them!

Really how farking dumb are these people who are repudiating that women (including catholic women) use birth control? And on top of that making sure those same women get mandatory coverage for the costs that they are incurring already? I'm sure no one is speaking up against boner medicine probably covered the same way...


Requiring Catholic institutions to pay the co-pay for birth control for their employees is somehow breaking the boundary between church and state. If I were an employer, I'd say that I belong to a religion that forbids me to pay employees more than two dollars an hour, and the government forcing me to pay my workers at least minimum wage is a violation of my religious beliefs.

Strangely enough, the same people that are complaining about this breaking of the boundary are mostly the same exact people that would like to make nativity scenes legal on public property, put a copy of the ten commandments on display in our courthouses, force high schools to teach creationism alongside actual scientific theories, etc.

So it's not like they're mad about the boundary being broken, it's just that they believe it's being broken in a way that they don't like.
 
2012-02-20 11:48:03 AM  

dosboot: The media keeps trumpeting the lie that this is just about birth control. I is also about forcing a church/religious institutions to finance abortions. The media also trumpets that it is just the Catholics who are against this plan. The Orthodox Jews, Southern Baptists, and Muslims have all objected to it.

Next up, Obama mandates that the federal government must inspect and confiscate unhealthy brown bagged lunches in schools. Eat government issued "chicken" nuggets, slave.


There's plenty to go around because you just can't stop farking that chicken. Seriously, give the birds a break.
 
2012-02-20 11:48:10 AM  

zorlack7: It's a provable fact, however, that 100% of catholics are morons, so why can't we just discredit them on that, and leave birth control out of it?


JFK is getting a kick . . .
 
2012-02-20 11:49:30 AM  
My mother is a Catholic school teacher and she used birth control before she went through menopause. All of my catholic friends that I am aware of also used birth control before they went through menopause or are currently using it at any time they are having sex. Well, one of my catholic friends had an abortion. [I am still ultra grateful for that one. She was so sick before she did.]

Also, do they pay for birth control if you're not using it for birth control? Like if you take it for PCOS?
 
2012-02-20 11:50:37 AM  

debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?


Why is it that men need their viagra paid for by insurance? Back in my day, women used bayer aspirin between their knees as contraception and men used their hands to get it up.
 
2012-02-20 11:50:49 AM  
A Catholic woman is permitted to prevent pregnancy using mathematics, but not physics or chemistry.
 
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