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(Washington Post)   98% of Catholic woman have used contraception at some point. But since they're not using all the time, or may no longer want to use it, it's a "lie"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 256
    More: Asinine, Catholics, Guttmacher Institute, contraceptives, reproductive healths, non-profit organizations, effective methods, House Minority Leader, Catholic bishop  
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11146 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2012 at 11:01 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-20 09:35:39 AM  
Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.

Actually, the article does a great job of breaking down exactly WHY it's a bogus statistic.
 
2012-02-20 09:50:04 AM  

Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.

Actually, the article does a great job of breaking down exactly WHY it's a bogus statistic.


This. It's like a lung disease study who put people who quit ten years ago in the same category as current two-pack-a-day smokers
 
2012-02-20 10:11:51 AM  
I guess I'll repost this from the redlit thread a few days ago:

That was a baffling article. Certainly, Pelosi should have said, "98 percent of Catholic women, I am told by all of you, have used birth control to determine the size and timing of their families." Absolutely.

The scientific nitpick -- that it's not 98% of all Catholic women, but just Catholic "women aged 15-44 who have ever had sex" -- is just odd. Sure, the percentage is higher because it excludes 15-year-old virgins, but that doesn't seem terribly important for a public policy debate. That's like yelling at someone who says "16-year-olds have higher crash rates than drivers of any other age" because they didn't specify 16-year-old drivers and less than 30% of 16-year-olds have a license. Having a driver's license and having sex go without saying in those statistics (in non-scientific contexts).

The only reasonable complaint I can think of is that the study asked people who are currently Catholic what they have done at any point in their lives, so they might have used birth control before converting to Catholicism. This article, however, does not address that.

This is really just... odd.
 
2012-02-20 10:41:08 AM  

Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.

Actually, the article does a great job of breaking down exactly WHY it's a bogus statistic.


Aged 15-44 and had sexual experience AND identified as Catholic. Increasing the older age bracket wouldn't necessarily lower the percentage because you'd be adding women with even more life experience but you'd get women who lived most of their younger adult life before the sex revolution--not really a modern perspective. Lowering the age below 15 or counting virgins would be meaningless. It would artificially lower the percentage without revealing any useful information. Separate the wheat from the chaff, etc. The statistic is very useful but should still be presented honestly.

I'm curious how many of those surveyed women were nuns thinking about their pre-vow (or post-vow) lifestyle.
 
2012-02-20 11:02:49 AM  
We all know Catholic girls are total sluts. That's just a fact.
 
2012-02-20 11:03:58 AM  

Lando Lincoln: We all know Catholic girls are total sluts. That's just a fact.


Disagrees
i1136.photobucket.com
 
2012-02-20 11:06:09 AM  
Don't they have confession for that?
 
2012-02-20 11:07:27 AM  
So we should just throw out any poll because it doesn't include everyone.

Hell, this means that the results of any election are not valid, because it doesn't include everyone's vote. Well, except for places which have 103% vote turnout.
 
2012-02-20 11:10:00 AM  
api.ning.com
 
2012-02-20 11:10:28 AM  
SInce That old priest that raped boys died, it make all cases of child rape in the church a lie.
 
2012-02-20 11:10:36 AM  
This is the stupidest fkucing thing I've ever read. So, the article's points are:

1) It's not 98% of Catholic women that have used contraception; it's ONLY 98% of those who've had sex!!!

2) Since it's not 98%, your argument against making contraception available is moot! Ha ha!

Fkucing busllhit, man. The POINT, that Catholic bishop opposition against contraception IGNORES THE REALITY OF WHAT WOMEN ACTUALLY NEED AND PRACTICE, seems to have missed these yahoos entirely. Goddammit.
 
2012-02-20 11:10:49 AM  
To be fair to the GOP, they just assume that Catholic women do everything their sexless male leaders tell them to do, just like their wives.
 
2012-02-20 11:11:26 AM  
Shhh. Don't tell the trolls in the Politics tab who are always rejecting arguments that don't cite polls in support, yet cite the 98% claim themselves as if it's written in stone.
 
2012-02-20 11:12:31 AM  
Does this count Aspirin?
 
2012-02-20 11:12:54 AM  

Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.

Actually, the article does a great job of breaking down exactly WHY it's a bogus statistic.


Even the Church says it's over 75%. Why it should be between a woman and the church instead of a woman and her God is still beyond me, and why the church thinks it has any business trying ti run the country is also beyond me. It's all beyond me.
 
2012-02-20 11:13:37 AM  
It's a flat out lie. Only 98% of the sexually experienced Catholic women randomly chosen between the ages of 15-44 were asked. My aunt falls between that range and wasn't asked. She would have dropped that number down to 94% by herself, and I know at least a few others that could have easily brought it down into the single digits if they had been chosen by the study.

This is just another attempt at "science" to disprove the Bible without even bothering to cite any verse in the Bible to back up their claims.
 
2012-02-20 11:14:14 AM  
When the result you disagree with is 98%, quibbling over minor inaccuracies in the data collection method is pretty dumb. Unless the statistics are grossly inaccurate no amount of nit-picking the data is going to change the overall message.
 
2012-02-20 11:14:41 AM  

Lando Lincoln: We all know Catholic girls are total sluts. That's just a fact.


With a tiny little mustache.
 
2012-02-20 11:15:04 AM  

Rich Cream: Does this count Aspirin?


Nice one!
 
2012-02-20 11:15:38 AM  
How many of them were nuns?
 
2012-02-20 11:15:49 AM  
The fact that you can go to any Catholic church and find next to no families with 8 or more kids tells you all or almost all Catholic women are using birth control.
 
2012-02-20 11:16:07 AM  
TFA; Jones said the correct way to describe the results of the research is this...

That's almost exactly what those quotes you posted said, verbatim. So, the figure, as quoted, is accurate. Please stop trying to use large groups of meaningless words to debunk perfectly valid statistics, you dishonest twits.
 
2012-02-20 11:16:17 AM  

Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.

Actually, the article does a great job of breaking down exactly WHY it's a bogus statistic.



Sex is an explicit component in "contraception." If you want to know how many people use seat belts, you don't count people who have never sat in a car.
 
2012-02-20 11:16:59 AM  

Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience.


They should have asked 14 year-olds. Apparently, we give a shiat what they think about gay marriage. Why not have them tell us what they think about birth control? If you can't trust virgins and sexually active 14 year olds to give us good information on contraception, who can you trust?
 
2012-02-20 11:17:10 AM  
Does "I have a headache" count as contraception?
 
MBK [TotalFark]
2012-02-20 11:17:21 AM  
Can someone tell me why 1) We are listening to Catholic bishops and 2) We are listening to Catholic bishops.

They lost all credibility years ago when they covered up sexual abuse. They should just shut the fark up for the next 100 years until hopefully people forget that they supported pedophiles in the church.
 
2012-02-20 11:17:42 AM  
They should have the right to ban all contraception for women.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for contraception, I just can't stand the idea of a woman having a choice.
 
2012-02-20 11:18:13 AM  

I_Am_Weasel: So we should just throw out any poll because it doesn't include everyone.

Hell, this means that the results of any election are not valid, because it doesn't include everyone's vote. Well, except for places which have 103% vote turnout.


I swear I read that as "the results of any erection are not valid."
 
2012-02-20 11:18:36 AM  
Does it seem to anyone else like they were just throwing statistics against the wall to see what stuck?
 
2012-02-20 11:20:05 AM  
Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?
 
2012-02-20 11:20:17 AM  

Rich Cream: Does this count Aspirin?



Wouldn't that be contra-contraception?


/Rhythm method FTW
 
2012-02-20 11:21:04 AM  

eldezod: Fkucing busllhit, man. The POINT, that Catholic bishop opposition against contraception IGNORES THE REALITY OF WHAT WOMEN ACTUALLY NEED AND PRACTICE, seems to have missed these yahoos entirely. Goddammit.


The church is run by a bunch of stubborn, senile, doddering old white men. Do you really expect common sense out of individuals with fossilized brains?

What is much worse are those gullible and misguided people who continue to respect those whose total reason to exist is to mess up their follower's sex lives (and as many others that they can). And even worse, those that have full knowledge of the evil things the church does and has done (and has never apologized for it) and continue to give them money.

The world will be a better place if this organization would just wither and die.
 
2012-02-20 11:21:12 AM  

Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.

Actually, the article does a great job of breaking down exactly WHY it's a bogus statistic.


98% of Catholic women who could conceive used contraception despite Church law and doctrine and are going to Hell unless they repent, confess and do penance for their mortal sins. 98 year old nuns who are virgins have, almost without exception, not used contraception, but why count them?

This is a much higher rate of disobedience that I expected. I wouldn't be surprised if the figure was 75%, but then, that might well include all the infants and virgins and the hags past conceiving, who have no use whatsoever for contraception, because it is physically impossible for them to conceive.

It seems a quibble to complain that this statistic is limited only to the women who might conceivably (pun intended unapologetically) conceive. WHO THE FARK ELSE NEEDS CONTRACEPTION? I don't.

I don't need an abortion either. I am a man. Are people going to quibble because figures on Catholic women between the age of 15 and 45 who have had an abortion doesn't include Catholic men? I'm pretty sure that one half of all Roman Catholics have never thought of getting an abortion due to the fact that they are straight men, priests, or gay men who have never had sex with women and thus can't even be considered to be co-respondents in abortion. There's three sexes right there who don't NEED abortions. And you could almost add lesbians if it wasn't for some of them being raped or getting pregnant and then changing their minds.

If this statistic is even close to being true, then the Church's doctrines on sex and reproduction are virtually unobserved except the way an alcoholic observes teetotalitarianism--intermittently, or the way a teenager is monogamous--for several days, weeks or months at a time.

It is truly shocking. Even Protestant hypocrites aren't as likely to fall overboard from the Ship of Fools in which so many of them dwell. You really have to commend Roman Catholics on their ability to separate conduct and morality from Papal Bulls. Such pragmatism. Such dedication. Such thoroughness. Such intellectual hair-splitting. It confirms everything I love about the Roman Catholic Faith.

It makes me almost wish most of my family hadn't gone over the wall centuries ago. If you can't be a secular intellectual Jew or an aristocratically moderate and reasonable Old Line Protestant, than surely being a bad Roman Catholic is still a distant second best.

I find that people are more often horrible, horrible people in the name of fanatic rationalized religion than they are when they fail to live up to their own best ideals some of the time.
 
2012-02-20 11:21:46 AM  

debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-02-20 11:22:41 AM  

Lsherm: Well, no, it's a lie because the only women in the survey were aged 15-44 and had sexual experience. So it's not 98% of Catholic women, or anywhere near it.

Actually, the article does a great job of breaking down exactly WHY it's a bogus statistic.


Where those women 46 to 135 any different when they were younger? Has human nature changed a jot or iota in the last 10,000 years? 50,000? 250,000?
 
2012-02-20 11:23:04 AM  

Lando Lincoln: We all know Catholic girls are total sluts. That's just a fact.


Agreed, and that's why we love them!

Really how farking dumb are these people who are repudiating that women (including catholic women) use birth control? And on top of that making sure those same women get mandatory coverage for the costs that they are incurring already? I'm sure no one is speaking up against boner medicine probably covered the same way...
 
2012-02-20 11:23:05 AM  

MBK: Can someone tell me why 1) We are listening to Catholic bishops and 2) We are listening to Catholic bishops.

They lost all credibility years ago when they covered up sexual abuse. They should just shut the fark up for the next 100 years until hopefully people forget that they supported pedophiles in the church.


Were the pedophile priests surveyed concerning their sexual practices?
 
2012-02-20 11:24:06 AM  

debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?


Wut? The rule covers all contraception -- not just hormonal contraception.
 
2012-02-20 11:25:18 AM  
The acid test has been applied to this stat, and it isn't saying what many have read into it.

However, among the rest of us that read "98% of sexually-experienced, Catholic women" and thought "98% of women that had had sex and are Catholic" were correct. The Church's idea on what my female congregants have been up to is completely at odds with what they've done. Furthermore, even if you distill it to "actively sexual and actively using birth control," you still get an overwhelming majority.

There are lots of rules in our church; some make sense and some don't. But when it comes to sinning, Jesus laid out one to replace the curses of the Mosaic law: do unto others as you would have done unto you (and the variants among the gospels). So, here's a question, Catholic Bishops, Cardinals, et al: how is a prohibition on barrier contraception a compassionate law? How is the use of a condom a sin, which is to say how does it do unto another as I would not have done unto me?

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ABORTION. I'm not talking about abortifacients, because the entering assumption of "others" is a huge debate. But barrier protection... no fetuses involved. Vasectomies and tubal ligations... no fetuses involved. How do these break the "golden rule?"
 
2012-02-20 11:25:31 AM  
The other 2% are the ones who are always wanting to start a church softball league. Right, Amy Poehler?
 
2012-02-20 11:25:34 AM  

Starry Heavens: I guess I'll repost this from the redlit thread a few days ago:

That was a baffling article. Certainly, Pelosi should have said, "98 percent of Catholic women, I am told by all of you, have used birth control to determine the size and timing of their families." Absolutely.

The scientific nitpick -- that it's not 98% of all Catholic women, but just Catholic "women aged 15-44 who have ever had sex" -- is just odd. Sure, the percentage is higher because it excludes 15-year-old virgins, but that doesn't seem terribly important for a public policy debate. That's like yelling at someone who says "16-year-olds have higher crash rates than drivers of any other age" because they didn't specify 16-year-old drivers and less than 30% of 16-year-olds have a license. Having a driver's license and having sex go without saying in those statistics (in non-scientific contexts).

The only reasonable complaint I can think of is that the study asked people who are currently Catholic what they have done at any point in their lives, so they might have used birth control before converting to Catholicism. This article, however, does not address that.

This is really just... odd.


It seems like it's an important distinction that it's not of all Catholic women but a certain subset of them, but at the same time there are two important elements of the statistic:

1) Catholic women who are sexually active and do not currently wish to have a child are just as likely to use protection as other women who have the same traits, dogma be damned.
2) That the majority of sexually experienced women do use a method of birth control other than purely abstinence, and it has been true since the study first started in the 1970's.

Plus ignored in this debate is another important stat: something like 1 in 8 women are put on the pill for reasons beyond birth control (primarily issues with their menstrual cycle that require hormonal treatment.) That they should have to pay for that out of pocket because their employer doesn't like the idea that the insurance company is covering it without charging it back to them is a little ridiculous.
 
2012-02-20 11:25:39 AM  
Here's a secret -- every single one of these "fact checker" articles has put out some serious bullshiat at one point or another. Honestly, I think they're way more of a pain that they're worth.
 
2012-02-20 11:26:24 AM  

Rich Cream: Does this count Aspirin?


Aspiring can be a very effective contraceptive. Buy the super family economy size bottle from CostCo (10,000 tablets). APPLY DIRECTLY TO FOREHEAD!

When the guy comes out of the coma, give him a few aspirin. He'll have a splitting headache for a few days, perhaps. If not, there's one less rapist in the world, and you're well shot of him.
 
2012-02-20 11:26:28 AM  

debug: Why is it that women need their birth control paid for by insurance, but you can't use insurance to pay for condoms?


A box of condoms just costs a few bucks. If you can't afford a box of condoms, that should be the least of your worries.
 
2012-02-20 11:26:38 AM  
rlv.zcache.com
 
2012-02-20 11:27:28 AM  
Whoops! For aspiring, read aspirin.

Hey, it's like one of those silent "e" bits from the Electric Company! The power of silent "g".
 
2012-02-20 11:28:02 AM  

meanmutton: Here's a secret -- every single one of these "fact checker" articles has put out some serious bullshiat at one point or another. Honestly, I think they're way more of a pain that they're worth.



It's just the continuation of Fox's "fair and balanced" bait and switch.
 
2012-02-20 11:28:26 AM  
Does anal count?
 
2012-02-20 11:28:27 AM  
So, "98% of Catholic women to whom birth control is relevant have used it at some point."

How dare they leave out post-menopausal women, babies (female AND male), priests, and all dead Catholics from their survey! Sloppy sampling, I say.
 
2012-02-20 11:29:03 AM  

Troy McClure: The fact that you can go to any Catholic church and find next to no families with 8 or more kids tells you all or almost all Catholic women are using birth control.


Funny you should say that. I'm #7 of 8 kids. I'm Catholic (duh!). I stole all my high-school-phase condoms from my parents.

Note: my mother was older than 44 by then.
 
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