Eh, I liked Reagan back then.. but then I was a kid, and didn't know any better.

Meh. Presidents and other leaders are rarely seen objectively by people who lived during their time in office. It took us 30-40 years after Lincoln's death before he became popular. I suspect that Bill Clinton will be treated kindly by history, while Bush may be even more reviled.

Gerald Wallace and... um, I don't know, Emeka Okafor?

Imbroglio? Is that how you spell treason these days?

HMS_Blinkin: while Bush may be even more reviled.

Considering the astonishing rate of revisionism even a couple years after his presidency, I'm going to guess that he'll be looked at in a better light 50 years from now.

Clinton didn't take out bin Laden and left Bush to deal with the dot com implosion. Obama and the democrats ushered in the 2008 bailouts and mismanaged the end of the Iraqi/Afghan wars. Done.

bulldg4life: Obama and the democrats . . . mismanaged the end of the Iraqi/Afghan wars.

ha

hahahaha

Alphax: Eh, I liked Reagan back then.. but then I was a kid, and didn't know any better.

I feel the same way about Ladybugs.

imontheinternet: Clinton and Bush, Sr. were the two best in recent history, but you have to go all the way back to Eisenhower to find a good president.

Kennedy probably would have done well if he had more time. His brother would have been even better.

LBJ screwed the pooch with Vietnam, but the great society lifted millions out of poverty right up until Reagan started rolling it back.

bulldg4life: Clinton didn't take out bin Laden

Forgot about that Wag the Dog shiat, didn't you....

bulldg4life: HMS_Blinkin: while Bush may be even more reviled.

Considering the astonishing rate of revisionism even a couple years after his presidency, I'm going to guess that he'll be looked at in a better light 50 years from now.

Clinton didn't take out bin Laden and left Bush to deal with the dot com implosion. Obama and the democrats ushered in the 2008 bailouts and mismanaged the end of the Iraqi/Afghan wars. Done.

It won't last. Revisionist BS like that only works when people have a strong emotional need to latch onto those untruths, which many Republicans have right now. For them, it's either believer a lie or own up to the fact that the guy THEY voted for and supported farked up bit time. As time passes and the emotions die down, the facts will rise to the top. I'm not saying it'll happen tomorrow, but in ~50 years Bush will not be remembered well by anyone but the nuttiest of the nutjobs.

My point is the emotion has a strong impact on people's memories, and you know that the GOP platform for the last decade has been basically built on appeals to emotion. As an example, when JFK was elected, he garnered only a bare majority of the popular vote---49 or 50%. However, after his assassination, polls found that 70-75% of Americans claimed that they had voted for him (or something along those lines). After those emotions die down, things tend to go back to normal.

bulldg4life: Clinton didn't take out bin Laden

And Reagan and Bush I invented Bin Laden, so who's fault is it?

Kinda like that online Oscar poll on best dressed award winning actress won by Halle Berry.

Or the People sexiest people online poll won by Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf.

Never do online polls to determine ANYTHING.

I have been witness to all the presidents of the last 4 decades, yeah i know I'm old. Reagan and Clinton popped to mind very quickly.

Nixon- got caught
Ford - was just dull
Carter - was an absolute disaster
Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea
Bush Sr - Mediocre
Clinton - Was good - porked a fatty in the white house - have some respect for where you are. I'm sure he is not the first.
Bush jr - some good some bad - more vilified than he deserved
Obama - promised way too much and economically has not delivered well. Has a lot of idiots around him.

"They do make some really good pizza."

HMS_Blinkin: bulldg4life: HMS_Blinkin: while Bush may be even more reviled.

Considering the astonishing rate of revisionism even a couple years after his presidency, I'm going to guess that he'll be looked at in a better light 50 years from now.

Clinton didn't take out bin Laden and left Bush to deal with the dot com implosion. Obama and the democrats ushered in the 2008 bailouts and mismanaged the end of the Iraqi/Afghan wars. Done.

It won't last. Revisionist BS like that only works when people have a strong emotional need to latch onto those untruths, which many Republicans have right now. For them, it's either believer a lie or own up to the fact that the guy THEY voted for and supported farked up bit time. As time passes and the emotions die down, the facts will rise to the top. I'm not saying it'll happen tomorrow, but in ~50 years Bush will not be remembered well by anyone but the nuttiest of the nutjobs.

My point is the emotion has a strong impact on people's memories, and you know that the GOP platform for the last decade has been basically built on appeals to emotion. As an example, when JFK was elected, he garnered only a bare majority of the popular vote---49 or 50%. However, after his assassination, polls found that 70-75% of Americans claimed that they had voted for him (or something along those lines). After those emotions die down, things tend to go back to normal.

I don't know about that. You still cannot rail on Kennedy even 50 years later on his failures on Bay of Pigs, increased involvement with Vietnam, being very late on civil rights and being weak on the Berlin Wall going up.

pxsteel: Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea

So appeasing terrorists by selling arms to them so that we could support drug traffickers in Central America was ok, just the leaking of it was bad?

rcantley: Gerald Wallace and... um, I don't know, Emeka Okafor?

This is the only Bobcats player I can think of, period.

pxsteel: I have been witness to all the presidents of the last 4 decades, yeah i know I'm old. Reagan and Clinton popped to mind very quickly.

Nixon- got caught
Ford - was just dull
Carter - was an absolute disaster
Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea
Bush Sr - Mediocre
Clinton - Was good - porked a fatty in the white house - have some respect for where you are. I'm sure he is not the first.
Bush jr - some good some bad - more vilified than he deserved
Obama - promised way too much and economically has not delivered well. Has a lot of idiots around him.

Carter was only a disaster if you were not middle class or poor. Or if you don't enjoy peace, science and the environment.

If you think Reagan was a good president it is because you have never read a book with out pictures in it. That or you are a billionaire who hates brown people of any type.

rcantley: Gerald Wallace and... um, I don't know, Emeka Okafor?

Didn't elderly Micheal Jordan join the team for practice a couple of times? Does that count?

Satanic_Hamster: Saiga410: I don't know about that. You still cannot rail on Kennedy even 50 years later on his failures on Bay of Pigs, increased involvement with Vietnam, being very late on civil rights and being weak on the Berlin Wall going up

Sure you can. Bay of Pigs was stupid as hell and I consider the Vietnam war to be largely his fault.

Yes because Kennedy was French.

Philip Francis Queeg: pxsteel: Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea

So appeasing terrorists by selling arms to them so that we could support drug traffickers in Central America was ok, just the leaking of it was bad?

Governments do stupid and bad things from time to time. Iran contra and Fast and Furious were similar in nature and about equally bad.

Adam Morrison?

I love USAToday comments:

Scott Williams · Top Commenter · Domino College
Jeff Anspach when I think of worst ever I think of a guy who has a court date in Georgia because they wish to keep him off the March ballot until he proves to the court he was born in America. Check out youtube chuckle head and see for your self.

Check out the youtube!

I liked Ford when he was running for office because my Dad worked there.

I was 6, gimme a break.

Rozotorical Smartest
Funniest
2012-02-20 10:31:15 AM


pxsteel: I have been witness to all the presidents of the last 4 decades, yeah i know I'm old. Reagan and Clinton popped to mind very quickly.

Nixon- got caught
Ford - was just dull
Carter - was an absolute disaster
Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea
Bush Sr - Mediocre
Clinton - Was good - porked a fatty in the white house - have some respect for where you are. I'm sure he is not the first.
Bush jr - some good some bad - more vilified than he deserved
Obama - promised way too much and economically has not delivered well. Has a lot of idiots around him.

Carter was only a disaster if you were not middle class or poor. Or if you don't enjoy peace, science and the environment.

If you think Reagan was a good president it is because you have never read a book with out pictures in it. That or you are a billionaire who hates brown people of any type.



Don't confuse Carter's work post-presidency with his term in office.

But +5 for use of "brown people"

pxsteel: Philip Francis Queeg: pxsteel: Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea

So appeasing terrorists by selling arms to them so that we could support drug traffickers in Central America was ok, just the leaking of it was bad?

Governments do stupid and bad things from time to time. Iran contra and Fast and Furious were similar in nature and about equally bad.

pxsteel: Philip Francis Queeg: pxsteel: Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea

So appeasing terrorists by selling arms to them so that we could support drug traffickers in Central America was ok, just the leaking of it was bad?

Governments do stupid and bad things from time to time. Iran contra and Fast and Furious were similar in nature and about equally bad.

Your joking right? As bad as the cartels are they pale so farking quickly when you look at the Contras. Do you have any idea how many millions of people died for no clear cause because the Reagan Administration played nation building and genocide funding?

Rozotorical: pxsteel: Philip Francis Queeg: pxsteel: Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea

So appeasing terrorists by selling arms to them so that we could support drug traffickers in Central America was ok, just the leaking of it was bad?

Governments do stupid and bad things from time to time. Iran contra and Fast and Furious were similar in nature and about equally bad.

Your joking right? As bad as the cartels are they pale so farking quickly when you look at the Contras. Do you have any idea how many millions of people died for no clear cause because the Reagan Administration played nation building and genocide funding?

*You're. I hate when sneaky Jesus makes me mistype.

Aim low, ya can't fail.

doubled99: Rozotorical Smartest
Funniest
2012-02-20 10:31:15 AM


pxsteel: I have been witness to all the presidents of the last 4 decades, yeah i know I'm old. Reagan and Clinton popped to mind very quickly.

Nixon- got caught
Ford - was just dull
Carter - was an absolute disaster
Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea
Bush Sr - Mediocre
Clinton - Was good - porked a fatty in the white house - have some respect for where you are. I'm sure he is not the first.
Bush jr - some good some bad - more vilified than he deserved
Obama - promised way too much and economically has not delivered well. Has a lot of idiots around him.

Carter was only a disaster if you were not middle class or poor. Or if you don't enjoy peace, science and the environment.

If you think Reagan was a good president it is because you have never read a book with out pictures in it. That or you are a billionaire who hates brown people of any type.



Don't confuse Carter's work post-presidency with his term in office.

But +5 for use of "brown people"

I am not. Under what Presidential administration did the average wage of middle class and working poor wages increase any significant amount?

"This is the best we can do, people. Our elected officials suck because we suck."

\Carlin

pxsteel: I have been witness to all the presidents of the last 4 decades, yeah i know I'm old. Reagan and Clinton popped to mind very quickly.

Nixon- got caught I agree--on the other hand, suffered from serious psychological impairments which she have precluded his becoming president. The first paranoid schizophrenic president since Jackson.
Ford - was just dull I agree
Carter - was an absolute disaster I agree
Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea Can justifiably be credited with ending the Cold War. On the other hand, the first sitting president to suffer from senile dementia since Wilson, which should have precluded him from serving.
Bush Sr - Mediocre Strongly disagree. Well-meaning and tried to do the right thing, which included raising taxes when it became necessary. Consequently eaten alive by his own party which is now unfit to run the country due to its unwillingness to even consider raising taxes when approrpiate.
Clinton - Was good - porked a fatty in the white house - have some respect for where you are. I'm sure he is not the first. Didn't screw up the economy, couldn't keep his pants zipped up, should have resigned rather than dragging the country through the mud and making possible the election of
Bush jr - some good some bad - more vilified than he deserved On the contrary, he and Cheney should both be in jail right now for a variety of crimes ranging from insider trading to outright treason. Our first clinically retarded president since Harding, who at least had the decency to die early in office.
Obama - promised way too much and economically has not delivered well. Has a lot of idiots around him. Jury is still out, but being unduly optimistic about the economy at a time when telling the stark truth was likely to push the country even closer to disaster is not a crime, not even bad governance. My main problem with him is that he appears to lack the balls to deal firmly with the repubs in and out of Congress. However, with a little bit of luck, the next election should sove that problem.

Rozotorical: Under what Presidential administration did the average wage of middle class and working poor wages increase any significant amount?

Mitterand?

Rozotorical: pxsteel: I have been witness to all the presidents of the last 4 decades, yeah i know I'm old. Reagan and Clinton popped to mind very quickly.

Nixon- got caught
Ford - was just dull
Carter - was an absolute disaster
Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea
Bush Sr - Mediocre
Clinton - Was good - porked a fatty in the white house - have some respect for where you are. I'm sure he is not the first.
Bush jr - some good some bad - more vilified than he deserved
Obama - promised way too much and economically has not delivered well. Has a lot of idiots around him.

Carter was only a disaster if you were not middle class or poor. Or if you don't enjoy peace, science and the environment.

The targeting economic policies of Carter are taught in Econ classes as what not to do. May look good on paper, but does not work. This was known long before Carter, he simply chose to ignore wisdom.

If you think Reagan was a good president it is because you have never read a book with out pictures in it.

Really...intellectually dishonest

That or you are a billionaire who hates brown people of any type.

Nice card.

Rozotorical: doubled99: Rozotorical Smartest
Funniest
2012-02-20 10:31:15 AM


pxsteel: I have been witness to all the presidents of the last 4 decades, yeah i know I'm old. Reagan and Clinton popped to mind very quickly.

Nixon- got caught
Ford - was just dull
Carter - was an absolute disaster
Reagan- Was good - let iran/contra leak - bad idea
Bush Sr - Mediocre
Clinton - Was good - porked a fatty in the white house - have some respect for where you are. I'm sure he is not the first.
Bush jr - some good some bad - more vilified than he deserved
Obama - promised way too much and economically has not delivered well. Has a lot of idiots around him.

Carter was only a disaster if you were not middle class or poor. Or if you don't enjoy peace, science and the environment.

If you think Reagan was a good president it is because you have never read a book with out pictures in it. That or you are a billionaire who hates brown people of any type.



Don't confuse Carter's work post-presidency with his term in office.

But +5 for use of "brown people"

I am not. Under what Presidential administration did the average wage of middle class and working poor wages increase any significant amount?

Did the average wage for working people go up or did the number of workers drop thereby increasing the average wage of those still employed?

Don't get me wrong.....having a higher wage is good...its that whole having a job that earns you a wage thing that gets in the way.

Carter has the higest misery index of the last 60 years.

imontheinternet: DarnoKonrad: imontheinternet: Clinton and Bush, Sr. were the two best in recent history, but you have to go all the way back to Eisenhower to find a good president.

Kennedy probably would have done well if he had more time. His brother would have been even better.

LBJ screwed the pooch with Vietnam, but the great society lifted millions out of poverty right up until Reagan started rolling it back.

True. LBJ could have been a great president, but his legacy is marred by Vietnam. He had a strong domestic agenda and was incredibly good at getting bills passed, but he completely dropped the ball on foreign policy. It must have been connected to his habit of whipping his dick out at odd times.

The thing is that LBJ knew that Vietnam was going to be a mistake and he knew we couldn't win even as he was making the decisions. He just didn't seem to think there was a viable alternate path for some reason.

Last 40 years? Well... Here's what you've got to pick from, I went ahead and removed Nixon and Carter, because nobody that actually knows anything would pick either of them.

Gerald Rudolph Ford, 1974-1977
Ronald Wilson Reagan, 1981-1989
George Herbert Walker Bush, 1989-1993
William Jefferson Clinton, 1993-2001
George Walker Bush, 2001-2009
Barack Hussein Obama, 2009-

History Channel 2 is running shows about the Presidents all day today. There was a show about Lincoln's last hours after he got shot in the head. I never new his last words were "I freed the what?!"

imontheinternet: DarnoKonrad: imontheinternet: Clinton and Bush, Sr. were the two best in recent history, but you have to go all the way back to Eisenhower to find a good president.

Kennedy probably would have done well if he had more time. His brother would have been even better.

LBJ screwed the pooch with Vietnam, but the great society lifted millions out of poverty right up until Reagan started rolling it back.

True. LBJ could have been a great president, but his legacy is marred by Vietnam. He had a strong domestic agenda and was incredibly good at getting bills passed, but he completely dropped the ball on foreign policy. It must have been connected to his habit of whipping his dick out at odd times.

Four things Johnson should be remembered for.
The wars in south east Asia.
Civil Rights
Cronyism
Being the last Texan to be President.

Bush Sr. tops the list solely for his mediocrity.

Clinton was a disaster. NAFTA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall was the icing on the Reagan cake of economic doom.

Obama has been mediocre at best as well.

Outrageous Muff: bulldg4life: Clinton didn't take out bin Laden

And Reagan and Bush I invented Bin Laden, so who's fault is it?

Nope.

Bin Laden was going to be fighting the Soviets whether the USA helped the mujahedin or not. In fact, the USA did not fund OBL's faction at all. He didn't need our monetary support; he was already absolutely loaded, and at the time had no financial restraints placed on him.

The Taliban was founded because of the lawlessness which started after the USA abandoned Afghanistan after the Soviets left. Basically, there was a lot of tribal fighting going on, and there was a lot of lawlessness. Mullah Omar heard about a warlord who had little boys as sex slaves, got pissed off about it, and started a small militia to free them, and ended up freeing them and killing the warlord. The locals saw this, and liked it. They gained support and kept expanding.

Al Qaeda started mainly because of US involvement in the Gulf War and US military bases on Saudi soil (they wanted Gulf War 1 to be a pure Muslim affair and Saudi base is in Muslim holy land, which pisses them off). It just so happened they shared a lot of beliefs with the Taliban, which is why they went to Afghanistan after the Taliban controlled a large part of it, after they left the Sudan.

The USA had no direct involvement with the creation of either group, unless you consider the US involvement in Gulf War 1 or military bases on Saudi soil (to dissuade Hussein from invading Saudi Arabia) to be direct involvement.

If anyone says the US helped create/finance either group (other than by their actions which resulted in them forming), they are a retard.

As I stare Bush's impending 4th term in the face, I wonder if we'll ever elect a President again who does better than William Henry Harrison.

GypsyJoker: "This is the best we can do, people. Our elected officials suck because we suck."

\Carlin

We deserve the politicians we get.

God polls are stupid.

Meanwhile, Democrats are more likely to believe Reagan will get favorable historical judgments (47%) than that (Jimmy) Carter will (31%)."

Why I'm a Democrat and yes, I actually do believe Reagan will get favorable historical judgements. It's because the current GOP is just completely rewriting history surrounding Reagan making him out to be some sort of saint. The requirement to understand otherwise is effort and education, both of which the American public is sorely lacking. So in conclusion, he was a shiat president who will be viewed favorably anyway. What conclusion do you draw, pollster?

Americans generally regard Reagan and Clinton as the best presidents in recent memory

Yes. Well done.