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(Some Guy)   "I said, 'F-- you, you son of a biatch, now it's my turn.'"   (marinij.com) divider line 38
    More: Hero, Greenbrae, San Rafael, Novato, Smith & Wesson, sons, Samuel Cutrufelli  
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37470 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2012 at 9:38 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-02-19 08:34:29 PM
4 votes:
This is the most badass part of the article:

Leone said he concocted a plan: He said he needed to use the bathroom, which is where his five guns were hidden. When the burglar refused, Leone pulled his pants down and said he would defecate on the spot.

The burglar let him leave for the bathroom but would not let him close the door, Leone said.

"I said, 'Do you like to watch people take a shiat?'" Leone testified. The burglar let him close the door, and Leone went for his Smith & Wesson snubnose.



That's some straight up action movie shiat right there.
2012-02-19 09:53:52 PM
3 votes:

adeist69: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: How the hello was the guy hit three times in the abdomen yet still able to fight and then run away!?



At the turn of the 20th century a .32 or .38 was sufficient to drop a bad guy. Now the populous has gotten so fat that home defense warrants no less than a 9mm, .45 is more preferable.


"populace". "Populous" is the adjective.
2012-02-19 09:44:56 PM
3 votes:
i249.photobucket.com
2012-02-19 09:40:01 PM
3 votes:
What did I take away from that story?

I need to get something with more stopping power than my .38.
2012-02-19 07:42:13 PM
3 votes:
This guy sounds like he'd be a great radio interview. It'd have to be on at least a seven second delay & half of it would be beeped out but it'd be great. Well done Mr. Leone, I hope that I'm half the badass that you are when I'm 45 let alone 90.
2012-02-20 12:48:26 AM
2 votes:

Dudley_Nightsoil: Still think the best weapon for home protection is a 12 Ga. - won't penetrate 2 walls and wing a neighbor and if you actually need to shoot you won't need more than 1 shot.


This bears repeating. A shotgun is the perfect primary home defense weapon. Handguns for the street, shotguns for the home.
2012-02-19 10:59:38 PM
2 votes:

At the risk of stepping on a gun thread in progress, I thought this gem FTFA was worth noting:

Cutrufelli called 911 after stopping his car just over the San Rafael border. Cutrufelli, a 30-year-old Novato resident, said he had shot himself and needed medical attention, according to Twin Cities police.


"Ummmm, 911? Yeah. Hi. I just, uhhhh, shot...myself. In the stomach. Three times. What? Oh, I'm in my car on the side of the road. Wait here? OK, thanks."
2012-02-19 10:12:44 PM
2 votes:

CasperImproved: Beerguy: What did I take away from that story?

I need to get something with more stopping power than my .38.

Not really.

The old gentleman just shot too low. Either aim center mass, or if close enough a head shot. One thing the old guy probably hasn't been doing is to make sure your ammo stays fresh. Exchange it every other year or so with new. Donate the old to the local range, or drop it off at the local police station.


Well considering that he was just shot in the head, I think getting 3 out of 5 isn't bad at all lol
2012-02-19 09:46:21 PM
2 votes:
This man's lawn is immaculate.
2012-02-19 09:45:32 PM
2 votes:
I'd buy this guy a beer but he would just mock at how I'm not even close to being a man yet.
2012-02-20 10:35:57 PM
1 votes:

saturn badger: Why do people have the need to feel they have to carry? Have any of you ever used it anything other than bragging rights?

Honest question.


Why do people feel the need to wear seat belts?
2012-02-20 09:59:22 AM
1 votes:
The article is a good reminder of a few aspects of real gunfights:

Both participants were shot - one in the head - but remained active combatants.

The perp was shot three times, then took the old man's gun away and tried to use it on him.

Here's what I told my girlfriend when I was teaching her to shoot:


1) There are very few legitimate reasons to shoot a person. There is NO legitimate reason to shoot someone ONLY ONCE.

2) If you aim a gun at someone, they may try to take the gun from you. Make sure that if they do, it is EMPTY.


The old fellow in this story knew and followed these rules, and it saved his life.
2012-02-20 01:24:44 AM
1 votes:

Dudley_Nightsoil: Yeah, this guy has a set, alright. Reminds me of my dad, who used to go out and greet the Jehovah's Witnesses while casually carrying a .357. They never even got out of the car. Mom carried a .32 with birdshot for snakes when she was out walking. Dad was S&W all the way, I'm a Colt Python type.

Still think the best weapon for home protection is a 12 Ga. - won't penetrate 2 walls and wing a neighbor and if you actually need to shoot you won't need more than 1 shot.


If you're loading buckshot, you need to rethink your logic.
2012-02-20 01:06:10 AM
1 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: adeist69: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: How the hello was the guy hit three times in the abdomen yet still able to fight and then run away!?



At the turn of the 20th century a .32 or .38 was sufficient to drop a bad guy. Now the populous has gotten so fat that home defense warrants no less than a 9mm, .45 is more preferable.

Alright, I'm completely ignorant to firearm calibers... I know I could Google this, but what's the difference between a .22, 9mm, .45, and .357??

It seems like a .38 would be bigger than a .357, is that not correct?


.38 caliber includes the venerable .357 Magnum, the 9X19 and 9mm Parabellum and Makarov rounds, as well as .380 Auto, .38 ACP, .38 Special and .38 Smokeless. If the firearm is Chambered for .357 Magnum it is also compatible with .38 Special. The big difference being that .38 Special is a relatively low pressure round, and .357 Magnum is a WHOPPER, being after all loaded with Magnum powder.

When you see the numbers, .22 LR, 9mm, .45, you're seeing the diameter of the bullet (more or less). .22 is almost always referring to the rim headspacing .22 rimfire rounds, whether .22 Short, .22 Long, .22 LR, or the popular varminting round like the .22 Winchester Magnum. These rounds are all rather pitiful in regards to damage potential, although for silent professional work is almost preferred to all others, see the Hush Puppy put out by S&W back during the Vietnam war, issued to units that specialized in reconnaissance, well appreciated by lamented for the fact that it was usually more effective to use a knife at the ranges in which you'd have to close to ensure a kill.

The .38 Group, like I said, includes many different rounds, including the 9mm family, the .38 family, and .357 Magnum. These rounds vary however in their chamber pressures, and thus their speed at the muzzle. You can see anywhere from 80gr projectiles to 200gr projectiles. The .38 group is also the most popular, you'll see more defensive handguns in this group than any other. Do note, and I know this confuses some people, that while both the .38 Special and the .357 Magnum have the same projectile diameter: .357". The .38 Special is referring to the Case Diameter, which is .38".

Once past that you get into the 10mm group, or .40". You'll see the infamous 10mm Auto (considered to be the best automatic handgun cartridge in the world by some) and its directly related cousin, based off of the FBI's special version of the 10mm Auto, .40 Smith and Wesson. The .40 S&W is important in that it is a step up in power, bullet weight and muzzle velocity to the 9x19 (or "9mm" as it is the most popular 9mm cartridge with metric nomenclature), while still being a lot more controllable and by virtue of that more accurate in the hands of non-professional shooters.

After that you get the 11mm group. .45 ACP, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, .45 GAP, there's actually a lot of variants in this group. The ones we'll worry about are .44 Magnum, and .45 ACP (although I am a fan of .45 Super, which is to .45 ACP what 10mm Auto is to .40 S&W, and spanks the pants off of 10mm at the higher bullet weights that 10mm can't even accommodate). .45 ACP is probably the most famous handgun cartridge in the world. It has been used in handguns and submachine guns since 1911, and is not going away anytime soon. It is versatile in a way that no other round can compare (Snake Shot that actually works, tracers that make reliable flairs in S&R, rubber rounds) and can accommodate bullet weights all the way up to 230gr. It is also extremely favorable for use by professionals, because it is renowned for its stopping power and distinct lack of lethal overpenetration. In active shooter or collateral heavy environments this is extremely useful because you can take a shot at a threat and be reasonably certain that even if it does overpenetrate the target, anybody in the path of the bullet is extremely unlikely to suffer lethal injuries if hit. Then there's the .44 Magnum. The mack daddy of pistol cartridges for a long time, until only recently overthrown by S&W, but we'll discuss that later. For a pistol cartridge this thing is huge. It packs more powder into it than 2 .45 ACP rounds combined, and to top it all off all that powder is Magnum powder. This thing can and will drop a bear, buffalo, or pretty much anything you point the gun at. Packing 340gr of lead, this round reliably sends that hunk of death towards its recipient at around 1500ft/sec netting a whopping 1,500 ft/lbs when it hits the target, 4 times that of the HOTTEST .45 ACP loads. It's a bad beast, but it also requires a BIG gun.

Next up comes the legal edge family: the 12mm group. .50 GI, .500 S&W, .50 AE, these calibers are pretty much enthusiast calibers and if you see someone carrying one of these things around for self defense, get away from them. Their handguns are likely to do damage to you without even being pointed at you. The .50 S&W revolvers have a habit of double stroking, the recoil being so bad it causes the shooter to accidentally pull the trigger on the rebound, causing two shots to go off within milliseconds, the .50 GI is using rounds that don't perform as they should because the projectiles were meant for the .50 AE, and thus aren't going to expand properly once hitting the target, turning what would normally be a rotten ugly mess of a JHP to perform as if it was ball, and the .50 AE is only ever found on the Desert Eagle, a gun so impractical as to make any of its carriers an inside joke to the shooting community. That being said, the .500 S&W is pretty much twice as powerful as the .44 Magnum, yeilding over 3,000 Ft/lbs with a 350gr projectile travelling at 2,000 ft/sec. You'll only ever find highly dangerous and impractical Nitro Express rounds in pistols beyond this range, as projectiles over .50" in diameter are illegal in the US save for Black Powder, Shotgunning, and a few exemptions for sporting in the rifle calibers.

If you'd like a further breakdown on the Rifle Calibers, let me know. This all basically covers the basic range of Pistol Calibers.
2012-02-20 12:28:23 AM
1 votes:
Three shots in the abdomen and the bad guy could still fight? The old guy must have been shooting ball ammo. I really doubt the guy would have been up to fighting or running away after a few .38spl hollowpoints.

Personally, I carry a .45ACP with 230 grain hollowpoints. Second shots are just plain silly.
2012-02-20 12:24:27 AM
1 votes:
Yeah, this guy has a set, alright. Reminds me of my dad, who used to go out and greet the Jehovah's Witnesses while casually carrying a .357. They never even got out of the car. Mom carried a .32 with birdshot for snakes when she was out walking. Dad was S&W all the way, I'm a Colt Python type.

Still think the best weapon for home protection is a 12 Ga. - won't penetrate 2 walls and wing a neighbor and if you actually need to shoot you won't need more than 1 shot.
2012-02-20 12:01:05 AM
1 votes:

Oznog:

And old-school medieval-on-your-ass sword, spiked mace, or crossbow, are illegal as weapons just about anywhere. i>


What?

Ummmm...excuse me, I gotta go put some stuff away...

In all seriousness, I have a bunch of fully functional medieval replicas that the cops have never siad "boo" about. (The cops used to come to my house every 6 months or so whenever the neighbors kid would run away) Never occured to me to check on thier legality.

/should probably do that
2012-02-19 11:38:25 PM
1 votes:

Dr Dreidel: So long as many in the audience are stroking guns, can anyone explain why no manufacturer builds a weapon that can be held by those of us with enormous meathooks?

I've been using the S&W .40s at the range because I swallow the 9mms.

// also, did you know that .40 casings will fit in 9mm casings?
// found that out when I found piles of spent brass in my pocket


Same reason it's hard to find a weapon if you have small hands and skinny wrists like me. I've got no length between my thumb & index finger so any firearm I can hold has zero stopping power.

I'm just better off with a knife.
2012-02-19 11:25:16 PM
1 votes:

CoolHandLucas: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:
That's a helpful graphic, thanks. So why is the 9mm considered preferable to the 38 when the 38 seems much bigger? The type of gunpowder, as mentioned before?

Has much less to do with ballistics than cartridge length & weapon suitability.

38 Specials are chambered in revolvers which are typically limited to 5-6 rounds, while 9mm fits easily in semi-autos and my Glock 19 fits 15 in its magazine. Reloads are a HELL of a lot faster with semi-autos than revolvers, too.

Many law enforcement agencies use 40 S&W, while a growing number are switching to 357 Sig...which uses the same type of bullets as a 357 Magnum in a much shorter case, producing about 10% less velocity but fitting easily in a semi-auto.


I'm still trying after 50 years of experience to understand where some think size matters.

Unless armor/material between you and your target is an issue, size means little. It's more what you do with what you have, then the amount. Of course, if you have a machine gun that variable needs tweaking. But generally speaking, if you can place a .22 cal within an inch of where you intend within a distance of 100 yards, you really don't really need a .50 cal round unless you don't know where to place it.
2012-02-19 11:22:53 PM
1 votes:
Well, since we're sharing, here's my line-up.

i29.photobucket.com

I've got some 7.7mm Jap now, so I guess I'll have to restage this. :)
2012-02-19 11:04:37 PM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Smeggy Smurf: Greenlight #100 and it's in honor of a badass. I DO want to live on this planet still

/unworthy submitter

Indeed you are unworthy. This man's left brass ball would crush you like an insect.


I would be honored to be crushed by his left testicle and then buy him some whiskey. That's right whiskey. No pissant beer for this man.
2012-02-19 11:04:08 PM
1 votes:
farm6.static.flickr.com


This is what the .577/.450 Martini-Henry round is for. Goes through the first rank, and knocks over a couple of other tribesmen as well, before they can get close to you with their sharpened fruit.

Of course, Leone would have needed the Artillery Carbine for this sort of close-in work. And it might have got a little cloudy what with the black powder and all; best to fix bayonet first too, in case he missed with the first round.
2012-02-19 11:03:54 PM
1 votes:
I found this in GIS - The hell?

www.mikemalloy.com
2012-02-19 10:59:41 PM
1 votes:

adeist69: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: How the hello was the guy hit three times in the abdomen yet still able to fight and then run away!?



At the turn of the 20th century a .32 or .38 was sufficient to drop a bad guy. Now the populous has gotten so fat that home defense warrants no less than a 9mm, .45 is more preferable.


At the turn of the 20th century is when John Browning designed the Colt 1911 because the .38 Special didn't have any stopping power.

/dumbass
2012-02-19 10:55:02 PM
1 votes:
No love for 10mm in this thread?
Glock 20 in 10 mm, 15 rounds. fark yeah
2012-02-19 10:53:06 PM
1 votes:
No love for the .38 Super? Farkers, I am disappoint.
2012-02-19 10:52:56 PM
1 votes:
Took one to the head and was still able to get 3 into the bad guy? Someone get this man a beer and some more ammo.

Shot placement is more important than caliber. As my shooting instructor said, "It is better to hit with a .22, than miss with a .45".

Also, the best gun there is, is the one you have.

Myself, I carry a 9mm loaded with Winchester PDX1 +P hollow points. I figure, if it's good enough for the FBI, it's good enough for me.
2012-02-19 10:29:01 PM
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org
2012-02-19 10:21:03 PM
1 votes:

adeist69: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: How the hello was the guy hit three times in the abdomen yet still able to fight and then run away!?


At the turn of the 20th century a .32 or .38 was sufficient to drop a bad guy. Now the populous has gotten so fat that home defense warrants no less than a 9mm, .45 is more preferable.

.
FYI: A 9mm is really a .355 and a .38 and .357 use the SAME bullet (.357) with just a little bit more powder behind the 357 magnum
.
So the 9mm is actually SMALLER than the .38. The .38 is actually misnamed.


I'll take my .45 over a 9mm anyday
2012-02-19 10:17:31 PM
1 votes:

FabulousFreep: Beerguy: What did I take away from that story?

I need to get something with more stopping power than my .38.


Yeah came to say this.
Practice your marksmanship.
Make a head-shot and the guy doesn't die you need to remember the double-tap rule.
Bigger guns don't make bigger holes, bigger bullets do.
Why lots of cops started carrying .357 mags and 9 mm.


Actually, a 9mm doesn't have much more stopping power than the .38. After a lot of conflicting law enforcement data was reviewed, extensive tests carried out at Quantico data revealed that the round nose .38 and ball 9mm had roughly the same degree of penetration despite the broad difference in delivered energy. Also, the 9mm was more likely to zip through a target than transfer energy. Subsequent tests indicated the best real stopping power was delivered by the .40, .357SIG and .45ACP...all using Federal Hydra-Shok ammo. Not long after the tests, the Va State Police adopted the .357SIG and have reported more one-shot stops than ever. As for the head shot...good luck. Most armed conficts happen within the magical 7 yard distance and any serious firearms instructor will tell you to go center of mass. Leave the head shots for the TV cops. Unless, of course, you're toting a 12ga loaded with 00B.
2012-02-19 10:05:48 PM
1 votes:

Quantum Apostrophe: adeist69: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: How the hello was the guy hit three times in the abdomen yet still able to fight and then run away!?



At the turn of the 20th century a .32 or .38 was sufficient to drop a bad guy. Now the populous has gotten so fat that home defense warrants no less than a 9mm, .45 is more preferable.

"populace". "Populous" is the adjective.




Thanks for pointing that out in a un-snarky manner, I was in a hurry and didn't double check myself :)
2012-02-19 09:59:07 PM
1 votes:

Cyclometh: Is this the thread where we parade revenge fantasies around?


Judging from the posts here, no.
But thanks for asking.
2012-02-19 09:54:20 PM
1 votes:
Is this the thread where we parade revenge fantasies around?
2012-02-19 09:46:17 PM
1 votes:
Just about every evil deed in the world comes down to the actions of a thief.
2012-02-19 09:44:07 PM
1 votes:
Let the burglar go.

And live with the lifetime of shame that he got shot, dissed and out-thought by a 90-year old man who then made him look like a total fool in court as well.

I mean, really. Can this guy Cutrufelli possibly hold up his head in Greenbrae again? "Hey, dummy! You shot an old man in the head and then he kicked your ass!" He may as well just kill himself now. What a loser.
2012-02-19 09:42:44 PM
1 votes:
Note to self: stay off his lawn
2012-02-19 06:49:23 PM
1 votes:
Badass. I'd love to shake his hand.
2012-02-19 06:17:14 PM
1 votes:
that dude is straight up hardcore. 90 years old, shot in the face and still manages to fight off the burglar.
 
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