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(Yahoo)   Caterpillar to cocoon small tractor operations in Japan, emerge in Athens, GA   (news.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Georgia, caterpillars, Japan, tractors, United States, construction equipment, Houston, Texas, sport utility vehicles  
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1658 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Feb 2012 at 6:28 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-19 08:34:47 AM  
chinadivide.com
"The're takin' ar jerbs!!!"
 
2012-02-19 08:53:37 AM  
This is good news. I grew up in Athens/Clarke County (Consolidated Government.) It is the smallest county in Georgia and The University of Georgia owns 60% of the land. That means no taxes paid on 60% of the county. The school system sucks, the tax rate is so high for businesses that many of them moved one county over in the last 10 years. We have no major highways leading to and from town, and the poverty level is one of the highest in the Southeast, so this is a major coup.

I'm worried about this falling through.
 
2012-02-19 08:54:11 AM  
Given that Caterpillar is an economic indicator for the US, this appears to be really good news unless Caterpillar and American politicians are aware that the company is used as a benchmark for the health of our economy then the whole thing is kind of a tempest in a tosspot.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-02-19 08:59:57 AM  
Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.
 
2012-02-19 09:03:35 AM  
Might also have something to do with the fact that the japanese aren't reproducing, so getting workers is more difficult as time progresses. If an assembly task could possibly be done with a machine in an economical fashion, they'd do it in japan.
 
2012-02-19 09:05:13 AM  

ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.


Who gives a rat's ass? The extra economic activity generated in the area will invariably lead to more money in government coffers. (Well, okay, I'm curious too.)
 
2012-02-19 09:09:16 AM  

ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.


Not sure. They had to have been given some form of incentive to move there.
Here's the local story:
Link (new window)

The deal itself has been kind of hush hush.
 
2012-02-19 09:21:01 AM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Given that Caterpillar is an economic indicator for the US, this appears to be really good news unless Caterpillar and American politicians are aware that the company is used as a benchmark for the health of our economy then the whole thing is kind of a tempest in a tosspot.


I doubt it's working like that, especially when you consider that other companies have just announced the same thing. There are three things going on here:
1) General disillusion with the notion that globalization will lead to everything being better for everyone. It hasn't, we're over it, but the rigid idiots in politics haven't figured it out yet. Business understands it first, because they are in it for profit, not power.
2) Rising energy costs means it makes more sense to locate production closer to your customer
3) Falling dollar means it's more expensive to keep the plant overseas
 
2012-02-19 09:23:05 AM  

Spoon over Marin: This is good news. I grew up in Athens/Clarke County (Consolidated Government.) It is the smallest county in Georgia and The University of Georgia owns 60% of the land. That means no taxes paid on 60% of the county. The school system sucks, the tax rate is so high for businesses that many of them moved one county over in the last 10 years. We have no major highways leading to and from town, and the poverty level is one of the highest in the Southeast, so this is a major coup.

I'm worried about this falling through.


The county sounds desperate for tax revenue. They'll probably give Cat a huge break hoping for a small increase in revenue and jobs. Win-win situation hopefully.
 
2012-02-19 09:23:29 AM  

Spoon over Marin: ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.

Not sure. They had to have been given some form of incentive to move there.
Here's the local story:
Link (new window)

The deal itself has been kind of hush hush.


The local government is probably counting on increased local property taxes from the workers and local businesses. Given that it's Caterpillar it is still part of the race to the bottom.
 
2012-02-19 09:25:02 AM  

jjwars1: Spoon over Marin: This is good news. I grew up in Athens/Clarke County (Consolidated Government.) It is the smallest county in Georgia and The University of Georgia owns 60% of the land. That means no taxes paid on 60% of the county. The school system sucks, the tax rate is so high for businesses that many of them moved one county over in the last 10 years. We have no major highways leading to and from town, and the poverty level is one of the highest in the Southeast, so this is a major coup.

I'm worried about this falling through.

The county sounds desperate for tax revenue. They'll probably give Cat a huge break hoping for a small increase in revenue and jobs. Win-win situation hopefully.


Fingers crossed! It also looks like the tract of land straddles Clarke and Oconee counties. The tax rate for business in Oconee is a lower rate.
And Athens really is a great place to live if you have a job.
 
2012-02-19 10:07:39 AM  

Spoon over Marin: jjwars1: Spoon over Marin: This is good news. I grew up in Athens/Clarke County (Consolidated Government.) It is the smallest county in Georgia and The University of Georgia owns 60% of the land. That means no taxes paid on 60% of the county. The school system sucks, the tax rate is so high for businesses that many of them moved one county over in the last 10 years. We have no major highways leading to and from town, and the poverty level is one of the highest in the Southeast, so this is a major coup.

I'm worried about this falling through.

The county sounds desperate for tax revenue. They'll probably give Cat a huge break hoping for a small increase in revenue and jobs. Win-win situation hopefully.

Fingers crossed! It also looks like the tract of land straddles Clarke and Oconee counties. The tax rate for business in Oconee is a lower rate.
And Athens really is a great place to live if you have a job.


Yup. Born in Athens and living there now. This is some good news, especially considering the alternative plan the city has been hush-hush about: building a Wal-Mart in the middle of downtown on a piece of land that's too small for it and with woefully insufficient road capacity, while there's another Wal-Mart three miles down the road. There's another on the other side of town.

As for the University owning 60% of the land, the town wouldn't exist or be as prosperous as it is (granted that the vast majority of that money goes to the melanin-challenged) without the University. They're been under pressure the last few years to raise wages as low wages there depress wages throughout the city. I don't know what you can do about the constant churn of college students working for cheap, though.

/The bars are awesome
 
2012-02-19 10:22:37 AM  

LockeOak:

As for the University owning 60% of the land, the town wouldn't exist or be as prosperous as it is (granted that the vast majority of that money goes to the melanin-challenged) without the University. They're been under pressure the last few years to raise wages as low wages there depress wages throughout the city. I don't know what you can do about the constant churn of college students working for cheap, though.

/The bars are awesome


I'm abstaining form the Walmart debate, but will say that the planners and investors involved in that site have not been hush hush at all.

UGA has realized that they are land grabby and it hurts the tax base as a result, so they have come up with a leasing partnership so they can lease land or a building and the owner will still pay taxes.
 
2012-02-19 10:46:31 AM  
In other news
cost of doing business in japan higher than here.

ok ill bite - why dint they go to china

hmmmm
 
2012-02-19 10:52:14 AM  
Setting up a new plant in a right to work state?

Caterpillar hates unions. Something not discussed too loudly is that they busted the UAW in the mid 90's

/grew up in Peoria and keeps up on the happenings back there
 
2012-02-19 11:21:45 AM  

internutthead: Setting up a new plant in a right to work state?

Caterpillar hates unions. Something not discussed too loudly is that they busted the UAW in the mid 90's

/grew up in Peoria and keeps up on the happenings back there


Good. fark the UAW.
 
2012-02-19 11:35:36 AM  

ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.


Caterpillar is also eligible for $45 million in state incentives, including job tax credits and a project development grant, state Department of Economic Development spokeswoman Alison Tyrer said. (new window)
 
2012-02-19 11:38:21 AM  

internutthead: Setting up a new plant in a right to work state?

RTW == the Enabling Act for businesses, to reintroduce a mild form of slavery. If it protected yes-voters as much as it protects no-voters, it would be worth its name.



Caterpillar hates unions. Something not discussed too loudly is that they busted the UAW in the mid 90's

/grew up in Peoria and keeps up on the happenings back there


The South has hated *anything* with the word union in it since the Civil War. Their lack of industry made it easy for business to indoctrinate the hate by playing to the regional sensitivities towards slavery.

Georgia is also the same state that stole a well-run, non-union Fortune 500 company(that treated the workers well enough to not need one) from the North for 60 million under cover of darkness. Their economic development department is simply made of big-government corporate raiders, and deserves whatever

I'd like to see that state be the first to repeal RTW, and from a politician with Ohio roots. That would be a true second coming of William T. Sherman to defeat the South's bigotry towards unions.

All that said, here is Georgia's real state flag, with respect to my home state of Ohio:
i540.photobucket.com
 
2012-02-19 11:43:01 AM  

Gunny Walker: ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.

Caterpillar is also eligible for $45 million in state incentives, including job tax credits and a project development grant, state Department of Economic Development spokeswoman Alison Tyrer said. (new window)


So that's what they call their Company Theft Department.

84Charlie: internutthead: Setting up a new plant in a right to work state?

Caterpillar hates unions. Something not discussed too loudly is that they busted the UAW in the mid 90's

/grew up in Peoria and keeps up on the happenings back there

Good. fark the UAW.


So you hate America.
 
2012-02-19 12:07:30 PM  

ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.


If it's anything like the NCR move, no. Businesses are blessed by Georgia's government as much as workers are cursed. Given that, Georgia's Business Theft Department will move heaven and earth in their finances to please businesses at the cost of their own constituents.


/One of the many Daytonians that has no good opinion of Georgia thanks to that move
//No ill will towards NCR for accepting the offer
 
2012-02-19 12:18:36 PM  

sethstorm: ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.

If it's anything like the NCR move, no. Businesses are blessed by Georgia's government as much as workers are cursed. Given that, Georgia's Business Theft Department will move heaven and earth in their finances to please businesses at the cost of their own constituents.


/One of the many Daytonians that has no good opinion of Georgia thanks to that move
//No ill will towards NCR for accepting the offer


You sound bitter.
 
2012-02-19 12:39:10 PM  

84Charlie: Good. fark the UAW.


I know right? America could have been what it's becoming now so many years ago. A giant, poor, collapsing shiathole.
 
2012-02-19 12:43:55 PM  
i112.photobucket.com
 
2012-02-19 12:44:06 PM  

ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.


They only pay 10% of their tax for 3 years, then it goes back to 100%.


Regarding the tax base in Oconee. The last thing I heard was that Oconee County has the highest per capita income in the state.

/raised in and just moved back to Oconee, fantastic schools
 
2012-02-19 12:45:32 PM  

sethstorm: ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.

If it's anything like the NCR move, no. Businesses are blessed by Georgia's government as much as workers are cursed. Given that, Georgia's Business Theft Department will move heaven and earth in their finances to please businesses at the cost of their own constituents.


/One of the many Daytonians that has no good opinion of Georgia thanks to that move
//No ill will towards NCR for accepting the offer


I'm confused. There's ill will towards the Georgia state government for offering, but not NCR for accepting? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to repeal right to fire here, it's a big reason why the university isn't unionized.
 
2012-02-19 12:46:48 PM  

hosalabad: ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.

They only pay 10% of their tax for 3 years, then it goes back to 100%.


Regarding the tax base in Oconee. The last thing I heard was that Oconee County has the highest per capita income in the state.

/raised in and just moved back to Oconee, fantastic schools


Most of the UGA professors live in Watkinsville and High Shoals.
 
2012-02-19 12:52:32 PM  
Whoever wants to start an Athens Area Fark Party, I'm in.
Athens, GEORGIA, not Ohio.
 
2012-02-19 12:54:10 PM  
Caterpillar just announced the closing of a plant in London, Ontario a week or so ago, then made public the opening of plants in Indiana and Georgia, where they won't have to deal with labor unions. Color me shocked.
 
2012-02-19 01:34:15 PM  

sethstorm: RTW == the Enabling Act for businesses, to reintroduce a mild form of slavery. If it protected yes-voters as much as it protects no-voters, it would be worth its name.


Speaking of slavery, can you show me where a Union derives the authority to impose mandatory dues-paying on citizens that dont choose to be a part of it?

Phil Moskowitz: I know right? America could have been what it's becoming now so many years ago. A giant, poor, collapsing shiathole.


When I think of a giant, poor, collapsing shiathole, i am reminded of those who arent in unions who have to toil endlessly to support their greed and have no say in the matter(UAW, Teachers, etc)
 
2012-02-19 01:49:40 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: Spoon over Marin: ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.

Not sure. They had to have been given some form of incentive to move there.
Here's the local story:
Link (new window)

The deal itself has been kind of hush hush.

The local government is probably counting on increased local property taxes from the workers and local businesses. Given that it's Caterpillar it is still part of the race to the bottom.


Race to the bottom huh? Perhaps CAT should keep those jobs in Japan because you're not satisfied with their reasoning for bringing them to GA.
 
2012-02-19 01:52:06 PM  

internutthead: Setting up a new plant in a right to work state?

Caterpillar hates unions. Something not discussed too loudly is that they busted the UAW in the mid 90's

/grew up in Peoria and keeps up on the happenings back there


And they were right to bust the UAW. Look what those greedy farks did to the big 3.
 
2012-02-19 01:56:53 PM  

Spoon over Marin: Whoever wants to start an Athens Area Fark Party, I'm in.
Athens, GEORGIA, not Ohio.


I'm down, to hell with the Ohio Farkers

/I keed
 
2012-02-19 05:43:57 PM  

sethstorm: words


Closed-shop, union-favorable laws is one of the reasons your pathetic state has been bleeding jobs and economic activity for decades. You brought it upon yourselves.

/that said, glad to hear about this Caterpillar plant
//Athens has always needed to diversify its local economy from being so heavily reliant on UGA, so it's good to see more industry developing in it
///UGA alum
 
2012-02-19 06:45:28 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: America could have been what it's becoming now so many years ago. A giant, poor, collapsing shiathole.


You can dislike the UAW without being anti-union (no way to tell if the original poster is either based off of a one line comment).

I feel that unions are needed more than ever. However, neither the UAW nor the IAM are role models for how a union should operate. They are organizations from which negative stereotypes against unions are modeled from. That has to change. The US really needs to adopt some of the labor laws from Germany that force unions and management to work together instead of this adversarial "we'll take the company down just to be right" attitude large unions in the US have.
 
2012-02-19 06:53:27 PM  

bindlestiff2600: In other news
cost of doing business in japan higher than here.

ok ill bite - why dint they go to china

hmmmm


The main consumer base for the light tractors and HEXs are in the states. The reason the plant was in Japan was because Cat bought a japanese corp to get into the business. Cat cannot compete in the asian market with the little stuff. Cost is so much higher vs what you can with the Korean corps mainly. Cat may have a better quality but right now and for a while the asian people are more price conscious. Cat is keeping the larger machines being produced at the Jap plant and using the freed space to increase production of the large pieces. China was never in the cards.

It just sucks that Cat did not open the plant to central IL but Cat will never open another plant here while state is a union state... and I don't blame them. I have worked at a Cat plant on the floor as UAW and the UAW (at least the old school hard liners) are not worth min wage let alone the contracted rates.
 
2012-02-19 09:29:43 PM  

Spoon over Marin: This is good news. I grew up in Athens/Clarke County (Consolidated Government.) It is the smallest county in Georgia and The University of Georgia owns 60% of the land. That means no taxes paid on 60% of the county. The school system sucks, the tax rate is so high for businesses that many of them moved one county over in the last 10 years. We have no major highways leading to and from town, and the poverty level is one of the highest in the Southeast, so this is a major coup.

I'm worried about this falling through.


I remember the original concept of that property was a huge IBM facility to make whatever was popular for business machines in the 1970's, but that idea went under pretty darn quick (almost as soon as they had the property assembled).

/Athens - bred, proud graduate of CCHS (pre-air conditioning) and UGA.
 
2012-02-19 10:03:18 PM  
www.millionmonkeytheater.com

The executive board looks somewhat less than hopeful about the move.
 
2012-02-19 10:24:01 PM  

Spoon over Marin: Whoever wants to start an Athens Area Fark Party, I'm in.
Athens, GEORGIA, not Ohio.


hosalabad: Spoon over Marin: Whoever wants to start an Athens Area Fark Party, I'm in.
Athens, GEORGIA, not Ohio.

I'm down, to hell with the Ohio Farkers

/I keed


I'm in.
 
2012-02-19 10:32:59 PM  

Dinjiin: Phil Moskowitz: America could have been what it's becoming now so many years ago. A giant, poor, collapsing shiathole.

You can dislike the UAW without being anti-union (no way to tell if the original poster is either based off of a one line comment).

I feel that unions are needed more than ever. However, neither the UAW nor the IAM are role models for how a union should operate. They are organizations from which negative stereotypes against unions are modeled from. That has to change. The US really needs to adopt some of the labor laws from Germany that force unions and management to work together instead of this adversarial "we'll take the company down just to be right" attitude large unions in the US have.



A lot of what I've read in the WSJ about the UAW and the Big 3 in this post economic crisis period is that they are learning how to work together and get things done. I suspect this won't last too long, however, as the union will probably start making crazy demands again after a few more quarters of steady profits.
 
2012-02-19 10:57:39 PM  
I need to look up the deeds on that land. They call it the orkin tract, the IBM tract... When we moved here in '83- CCHS '85 just before the aircon- everybody was just hanging on for IBM to swoop in. That was back when professors lived in county and sent their kids to CCSD.
Alas, the great geek base waited in vain. Only hope I have: they better get somebody in to harvest that beautiful hardwood on the property who'll turn it into something besides firewood.
/boss lives right next to that spot.
//I'm in. Globe?
 
2012-02-20 12:43:49 AM  

84Charlie: Good. fark the UAW.


Right on! Fark American workers, if they're unionized, they're not real Americans, so foreigners become more important.


Bullcrap. If capitalists can collectivize wealth for their benefit, then workers can collectivize labor.
 
2012-02-20 01:57:29 AM  
What's good for Athens is good for me so fark yeah.
 
2012-02-20 02:07:11 AM  
Hmm.

/can't tell if this a good thing because it means more American jobs or bad thing because it might mean we're becoming a 3rd world production heavy country.
 
2012-02-20 02:09:13 AM  

internutthead: Setting up a new plant in a right to work state?

Caterpillar hates unions. Something not discussed too loudly is that they busted the UAW in the mid 90's

/grew up in Peoria and keeps up on the happenings back there


Awwwwww they didnt have to cave in to the unions extortion tactics to get workers huge pay raises? Cry me a farking river, seeing GM workers sit idle yet still get paid for not working was the most moronic thing ever, there were reasons GM sucked so hard until they had the unions give up some power a couple years ago.

sethstorm: RTW == the Enabling Act for businesses, to reintroduce a mild form of slavery. If it protected yes-voters as much as it protects no-voters, it would be worth its name.


Name me one case where a person was retaliated against for voting yes and the company was not heavily punished.

Unions have been irrelevant for years and it seems their only purpose has been to steal workers money while their leaders did nothing of substance during that time.

Captain_Ballbeard: Bullcrap. If capitalists can collectivize wealth for their benefit, then workers can collectivize labor.


Why are union people so communist sounding? You do realized that instantly turns off people who may actually believe some of your viewpoints, right?
 
2012-02-20 02:13:26 AM  

SN1987a goes boom: Hmm.

/can't tell if this a good thing because it means more American jobs or bad thing because it might mean we're becoming a 3rd world production heavy country.


I think it means that japan isnt buying a lot of their products any longer so it just made sense to move production to where their bigger markets were, the US and europe.
 
2012-02-20 02:38:40 AM  

Saiga410: It just sucks that Cat did not open the plant to central IL but Cat will never open another plant here while state is a union state... and I don't blame them. I have worked at a Cat plant on the floor as UAW and the UAW (at least the old school hard liners) are not worth min wage let alone the contracted rates.



That's a load of shiat. It's been personal between Quinn and Oberhelman for a bit now since the former refused to pay off ("offer incentives") to the latter. Oberhelman's public statements cited governance issues as the major impediments to reinvestment in the state while Quinn, and the head of the Catepillar division opening the plant, cited proximity to ports. Couple that with the fact that it'll take Athens 30 years to recoup their investment (property taxed based on 10% of its value rising to 100% over 30 years, water-power-transportation improvements publicly funded, etc) and it's no surprise that they moved a plant there.
 
2012-02-20 07:33:32 AM  

Spoon over Marin: ZAZ: Spoon over Marin

Will Caterpillar pay the normal tax rate for its Georgia facility? Often companies are inducated to relocate with the promise of a special, low tax rate.

Not sure. They had to have been given some form of incentive to move there.
Here's the local story:
Link (new window)

The deal itself has been kind of hush hush.


It vaguely reminds me of a movie I saw.
 
2012-02-20 01:58:28 PM  

sethstorm: internutthead: Setting up a new plant in a right to work state?

RTW == the Enabling Act for businesses, to reintroduce a mild form of slavery. If it protected yes-voters as much as it protects no-voters, it would be worth its name.

Caterpillar hates unions. Something not discussed too loudly is that they busted the UAW in the mid 90's

/grew up in Peoria and keeps up on the happenings back there

The South has hated *anything* with the word union in it since the Civil War. Their lack of industry made it easy for business to indoctrinate the hate by playing to the regional sensitivities towards slavery.

Georgia is also the same state that stole a well-run, non-union Fortune 500 company(that treated the workers well enough to not need one) from the North for 60 million under cover of darkness. Their economic development department is simply made of big-government corporate raiders, and deserves whatever

I'd like to see that state be the first to repeal RTW, and from a politician with Ohio roots. That would be a true second coming of William T. Sherman to defeat the South's bigotry towards unions.

All that said, here is Georgia's real state flag, with respect to my home state of Ohio:
[i540.photobucket.com image 640x400]


Ohio took a rather large national retail chain from us a few years ago (whose name is more related to New York City).
 
2012-02-20 08:35:26 PM  
As an employee of a company that sells capital equipment to Cat, we love hearing news that Cat's building new plants. The fact that it's in the U.S. is icing on the cake...
 
2012-02-20 09:30:43 PM  

millia: I need to look up the deeds on that land. They call it the orkin tract, the IBM tract... When we moved here in '83- CCHS '85 just before the aircon- everybody was just hanging on for IBM to swoop in. That was back when professors lived in county and sent their kids to CCSD.
Alas, the great geek base waited in vain. Only hope I have: they better get somebody in to harvest that beautiful hardwood on the property who'll turn it into something besides firewood.
/boss lives right next to that spot.
//I'm in. Globe?


Small world moment here... same class.
 
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