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(MSNBC)   (Insert party out of power) ready to hit (insert President) on the soaring price of gas. Not a repeat from every election year in the 21st century   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 239
    More: Obvious, gas prices, Alan Krueger, personal budget, Oil and gas law in the United States, natural gas, general elections  
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1142 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Feb 2012 at 4:35 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-19 09:05:32 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: erveek: Every year gas prices rise when oil companies pretend that they can't anticipate things like, say, summer.

Every year the oil companies produce the summer blends of gasoline, which cost more than the winter blends of gasoline. The price goes up. Also, people take trips in the summer and use more gasoline, so the price goes up due to higher demand.


The difference in price to produce Summer gas is an addition $.01 to $.15 a gallon. Demand only causes prices to go up when supplies hold steady or go down. If there is more demand in Summer, as there always is, then the oil companies only need to supply more gasoline, and the prices will remain the same. Instead, the companies claim that they somehow just didn't take into account the rising demand when they set the supply and have to raise the price due to demand. It's bull.

The real problem is that gas is a necessity and gas companies price accordingly.
 
2012-02-19 09:05:50 AM  

crispyone: And the Democrats in an overwhelming majority voted to approve the invasion of Iraq.

There is no talking around that.



Because they were lied to by the Bush administration, just like the rest of the country.
No talking around that either.
/found those wmd yet
//how about that yellow cake
///etc etc
////freedom fries!!!
 
2012-02-19 09:13:35 AM  
Are there people posting on this thread who think:

1) That US domestic supplies, if ramped up, would cause a global decrease in the price of oil, one that would not simply be reversed by OPEC dialing-down production, or merely clamping-down on wink-wink, nudge-nudge overproduction that we actually rely-on?

2) That untapped, accessible, good-quality oil deposits in the US are going to be able to make a dent in the global price?

3) That 'domestic' supply will lower gas prices in the US, because 'domestic' producers will deliberately forgo money by selling at less than the global price?

Cause if there are, then these people are kind of idiots.
 
2012-02-19 09:14:30 AM  

bizzwire: In another thread, someone described a scenario wherein GOP operatives could manipulate oil futures, driving the price of gasoline to $5/gal by the summer in order to create anger in the electorate. I'm sure he's not the only one to think of this...


Ooh! Scary GOP operatives drive the price of oil around for the purpose of influencing elections!

/this is what some Liberals actually believe
 
2012-02-19 09:15:23 AM  

dumbobruni: EnviroDude: geek_mars: It seems to me that rising gas prices would be more fuel for the "we need to end oil dependency" argument and make it easier to drive the point that we should be developing DOMESTIC alternative energy sources.

If the party in power cared about the price of energy and what you pay at the fuel pump, they would remove some of the onerous regulations that stifle development of our domestic energy sources.

Subby mocks history, but history has shown that the left is the party that opposes oil exploration and production. By implementing dozens of permit requirements that cost $$$$$$ to comply with, it all slows down our domestic production.

Despite that, we are in a current boom (not as big as the late 70's, but a boom nonetheless). The question is, what is being done to reduce our reliance on imported oil?

Nothing. And as the price of gasoline creeps to $4-$5 a gallon this summer, those of us that don't have the luxury of living within a mile of where we work (especially if you live in a rural state), it takes it's toll. Food costs have gone up 15-20%. If you own a restaurant, this comes out of your bottom line.

Ultimately, these costs are passed on to the consumers - and in an anemic jobless recovery, it will take its toll. It was short sighted of the democrats to invest all their effort in solar energy without relieving oil/gas exploration of their burdens. The good news is that natural gas reserves are at record highs (thanks to fracking). Yet the government is not investing in natural gas powered automobiles. Go figure.

Bottom line, unless you live where you can walk to work, you will feel the impact. It will hurt the rural states the hardest (not democrat strongholds by any means - perhaps that is why the left is ignoring this).

/locally, fuel has jumped 15% since Jan 1. OUCH

the US isn't investing in natural gas for cars?

the US is 6th in the world in the number of natural gas fuel stations, and tens of thousands of public ...


And even that estimate makes the absurd assumption that the oil would be consumed here - which it wouldn't be.
 
2012-02-19 09:21:08 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Ooh! Scary GOP operatives drive the price of oil around for the purpose of influencing elections!

/this is what some Liberals actually believe



Got a question for ya, buttercup, just how liberal do you think the Oil industry is?
 
2012-02-19 09:23:30 AM  
Australia current price of Petrol: $5.678 per Gallon.

Society is on the verge of collapse an people are starting to eat their young to survive. We remember the chaotic time before, when the world was powered by the black fuel. And the desert sprouted great cities of pipe and steel.
Gone now, swept away. For reasons long forgotten, two mighty warrior tribes went to war and touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing. They built a house of straw.
The thundering machines sputtered and stopped. Their leaders talked and talked and talked. But nothing could stem the avalanche. Their world crumbled. The cities exploded. A whirlwind of looting, a firestorm of fear. Men began to feed on men. On the roads it was a white line nightmare. Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice. And in this maelstrom of decay, ordinary men were battered and smashed.
 
2012-02-19 09:24:07 AM  

Kurmudgeon: crispyone: And the Democrats in an overwhelming majority voted to approve the invasion of Iraq.

There is no talking around that.


Because they were lied to by the Bush administration, just like the rest of the country.
No talking around that either.
/found those wmd yet
//how about that yellow cake
///etc etc
////freedom fries!!!


He must have been a super genius to have fooled so many smart people!
 
2012-02-19 09:26:57 AM  
Also, the assumption that an increase in crude production without concurrent increases in refining capacity is blinkered, at best. The refining bottleneck greatly reduces the impact of crude inventories on the price at the pump
 
2012-02-19 09:26:58 AM  

crispyone: Kibbler: 1macgeek: dumbobruni: but wasn't the GOP's attitude under Bush that of "b-b-b-b-b-but Clinton?"

Only because the recession was underway when Clinton left office. The Bush administration was not blaming Clinton three years later. I could not find a single article that even hinted at this. But I did find what was the meme in 2002, which was the start of Blame Bush for Everything :

"Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton sharply rapped the Bush Administration, saying the current White House domestic policy is to blame for the stagnant national economy that surfaced in the year after her husband's presidency.".

The simple reality is this : no President ever leaves affairs in perfect order when leaving office. Every President has to contend with budget choices not of their making for the first year. That's it. After the first year, you're on your own and as President the second year on is yours, and yours alone. So yes, in Obama's first year it was all Bush's fault. At day 366, Obama carries the blame for his incompetence at handling the economy.

I blame Bush FOR IRAQ. His administration claimed that, among other things, the war would lead to lower oil prices.

There is no talking around that.

And the Democrats in an overwhelming majority voted to approve the invasion of Iraq.

There is no talking around that.


Other than by pointing out that most Congressional Democrats, and almost 2/3ds of House Democrats, voted against the invasion of Iraq. Other than that, there's no talking around it, you mean.

Link (new window)

Of 208 House Democrats, 127 (61%) voted against the Iraq War.

In the Senate, 28 Democrats voted against the Iraq War, and 21 voted for it.

Link (new window)

Objective reality: it would like a word with you.
 
2012-02-19 09:29:23 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: bizzwire: In another thread, someone described a scenario wherein GOP operatives could manipulate oil futures, driving the price of gasoline to $5/gal by the summer in order to create anger in the electorate. I'm sure he's not the only one to think of this...

Ooh! Scary GOP operatives drive the price of oil around for the purpose of influencing elections!

/this is what some Liberals actually believe


The largest influence on oil prices is Wall Street by way of people betting on oil futures. That's why the supply can go up, the demand can go down and the price can go up anyway.

I think it has more to do with people wanting to make money, but a few investors trying to drive up prices for this reason isn't difficult to imagine.
 
2012-02-19 09:31:39 AM  

cabbyman: Kurmudgeon: crispyone: And the Democrats in an overwhelming majority voted to approve the invasion of Iraq.

There is no talking around that.


Because they were lied to by the Bush administration, just like the rest of the country.
No talking around that either.
/found those wmd yet
//how about that yellow cake
///etc etc
////freedom fries!!!

He must have been a super genius to have fooled so many smart people!


He didn't. It's just that the "mainstream" media, which at the time was massively and openly pro-Republican, did about as a good a job of informing people about Iraq War dissent as it did informing people about the lack of WMDs in Iraq. At the time, the primary reason the media ignored Democratic Iraq War dissent was to avoid a real debate on the question. Later, when it became clear that Iraq was a preposterous debacle, the media refused to talk about Congressional Iraq War dissent in order to promote the "bofe sydez r teh bad" meme.

As usual, both sides are not equally bad. The Democrats did what they could to oppose the Iraq War, and did so in a timely manner. As usual, the "mainstream" media sided with the Republicans to create a false narrative so that the Democrats would share blame for Republican incompetence. As usual, one should never, under any circumstances whatsoever, vote Republican.
 
2012-02-19 09:31:59 AM  

soy_bomb: If there was only a rich source of oil in the friendly, foreign country of Canada which would be happy to ship to us via a pipeline.


So if Keystone XL happened, we'd get first dibs on the oil, and at a discount too?
 
2012-02-19 09:32:21 AM  

1macgeek: dumbobruni: but wasn't the GOP's attitude under Bush that of "b-b-b-b-b-but Clinton?"

Only because the recession was underway when Clinton left office. The Bush administration was not blaming Clinton three years later. I could not find a single article that even hinted at this. But I did find what was the meme in 2002, which was the start of Blame Bush for Everything :

"Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton sharply rapped the Bush Administration, saying the current White House domestic policy is to blame for the stagnant national economy that surfaced in the year after her husband's presidency.".

The simple reality is this : no President ever leaves affairs in perfect order when leaving office. Every President has to contend with budget choices not of their making for the first year. That's it. After the first year, you're on your own and as President the second year on is yours, and yours alone. So yes, in Obama's first year it was all Bush's fault. At day 366, Obama carries the blame for his incompetence at handling the economy.


This is a particularly stupid and ignorant comment. All economic policies have a life-span of exactly one year with no ramifications beyond that? I'd avoid handling septic tank cleaner, you'll dissolve what little brains you have.
 
2012-02-19 09:33:35 AM  
All the Obama Administration has to do is flood the market with a few well-timed "random" strategic reserve releases to make speculators shiat their pants on gas.

/ Not sure this is the battle speculators want to have...
// Feel free to run up the price, just don't expect things are going to be all rosy when you get cut off at the knees...
 
2012-02-19 09:34:24 AM  

doyner: So how do you think your support for attacking Iran will influence oil prices, GOP?


Oh give it a rest. It'll be a brief upward surge, but the price will be amazingly cheap after the Iranians treat us like liberators.

You know, like the Iraqis did and the Afghanis before them.
 
2012-02-19 09:36:41 AM  
Gas was $1.14/gallon as the troops advanced towards Baghdad. Republicans suck.
 
2012-02-19 09:38:03 AM  
If gas is too expensive, don't buy it. Search for the lowest price in town. Use as little as possible.
 
2012-02-19 09:40:16 AM  

farkityfarker: That's it. I'm voting for the Republican candidate in November because if he wins it will obviously result in lower gas prices.


Well, now that you mention it, when Bush destroyed the economy gas went down to like 2 bucks and change because nobody had any money and demand dried up. And judging by their recent antics it seems fairly clear to me that the Republicans will destroy the economy again if given half a chance, soooooo: yeah, voting GOP in November probably will get you some low gas prices.

Until they start another war in the middle east.

God the Republicans are awesome. Awesome, awesome, awesome.
 
2012-02-19 09:41:16 AM  

Elzar: All the Obama Administration has to do is flood the market with a few well-timed "random" strategic reserve releases to make speculators shiat their pants on gas.

/ Not sure this is the battle speculators want to have...
// Feel free to run up the price, just don't expect things are going to be all rosy when you get cut off at the knees...


I don't mean for this to come across as partisan, but what ever happened to that idea of prohibiting oil speculation because of it being a necessary commodity? Hello? It this thing on?

/Oh, there's too much money to be made.
 
2012-02-19 09:41:54 AM  

badhatharry: If gas is too expensive, don't buy it. Search for the lowest price in town. Use as little as possible.


Yes. I'll just not buy gas. That'll work.

"Hey Chief, I can't make it to my drill weekend this month, I don't want to buy gas."

Oh I suppose the Reserves can reimburse me for the two hour trip to base every month . . . oh wait they don't. And its a four hour trip in the summer time because my home is further away than my college.
 
2012-02-19 09:42:25 AM  
Well then, let's fix it. Introduce a bill to ban oil speculation Boehner, or shut the fark up.
 
2012-02-19 09:45:07 AM  

bigpeeler: It's quite simple. If it happened while Bush was in office, it was Bush's fault. If it happened while Obama was in office, it was Bush's fault. What's so hard to understand?


The problem for Obama is that many of constituents want higher prices and he has been quite visibly blocking domestic exploration and transport.

So unlike some other presidents, Obama wont be able to dodge this one, even though the domestic sources wouldnt make a difference in the short run.
 
2012-02-19 09:48:54 AM  

heinekenftw: badhatharry: If gas is too expensive, don't buy it. Search for the lowest price in town. Use as little as possible.

Yes. I'll just not buy gas. That'll work.

"Hey Chief, I can't make it to my drill weekend this month, I don't want to buy gas."

Oh I suppose the Reserves can reimburse me for the two hour trip to base every month . . . oh wait they don't. And its a four hour trip in the summer time because my home is further away than my college.


Get a little gas saving car. Sorry, it's the only advice I can give on how to deal with the price of gas. On the plus side, you'll be saving the planet!
 
2012-02-19 09:50:27 AM  

heinekenftw: badhatharry: If gas is too expensive, don't buy it. Search for the lowest price in town. Use as little as possible.

Yes. I'll just not buy gas. That'll work.

"Hey Chief, I can't make it to my drill weekend this month, I don't want to buy gas."

Oh I suppose the Reserves can reimburse me for the two hour trip to base every month . . . oh wait they don't. And its a four hour trip in the summer time because my home is further away than my college.


Don't listen to him. People who don't understand the concept of "inelastic demand" are morons.
 
2012-02-19 09:51:48 AM  

badhatharry: heinekenftw: badhatharry: If gas is too expensive, don't buy it. Search for the lowest price in town. Use as little as possible.

Yes. I'll just not buy gas. That'll work.

"Hey Chief, I can't make it to my drill weekend this month, I don't want to buy gas."

Oh I suppose the Reserves can reimburse me for the two hour trip to base every month . . . oh wait they don't. And its a four hour trip in the summer time because my home is further away than my college.

Get a little gas saving car. Sorry, it's the only advice I can give on how to deal with the price of gas. On the plus side, you'll be saving the planet!


People are already driving more fuel efficient cars, and driving less than they were a few years ago. The elasticity of American fuel demand has already been stretched. It's possible it can be stretched a little further. But not much.
 
2012-02-19 09:54:52 AM  
growth in the non-taxpaying public, has soared under Obama

time to give them free Obama gas?
 
2012-02-19 09:55:01 AM  

badhatharry: Sorry, it's the only advice I can give on how to deal with the price of gas


Or, start trying to fix the problem. Gas demand is the lowest since 1994. The free market is the problem. Ban oil speculation and the price drops. That's the whole problem.
 
2012-02-19 09:56:35 AM  

bugontherug: badhatharry:

People are already driving more fuel efficient cars, and driving less than they were a few years ago. The elasticity of American fuel demand has already been stretched. It's possible it can be stretched a little further. But not much.


Buy an electric car... burn some dirty coal instead?
 
2012-02-19 09:56:47 AM  
Since most people are well aware of which party sucks big oils dick the hardest, I'm sure this brilliant plan will work just fine.
 
2012-02-19 09:58:07 AM  
I wonder if they see the trap they are creating for themselves? You know the trap where David Axlerod points out that domestic production is upLink (new window). Then points out evidence of oil speculation driving higher prices more than demand or productionLink (new window). Let's also show how those speculators that are manipulating gas prices are spending a lot of money to manipulate the political processLink (new window).

I know the fark independents will point out the speculation claims are made by ThinkProgress. I agree it is a noted lefty rag and is very biased. So let's look into it more. Let's give the press that bone to chew on in an election year. Let's roll the dice GOP. If there is nothing to it you have a solid case for class warfare. But if it's true all of us have a right to know how a small group of 1%'ers are ripping all of us off and using the profits to further rig the system so they can continue to rip us off. Let's have this conversation. Bring it. Tell us how oil speculation creates jobs and doesn't just line the pockets of the rich at the expense of everyone else.
 
2012-02-19 09:58:28 AM  

GAT_00: badhatharry: Sorry, it's the only advice I can give on how to deal with the price of gas

Or, start trying to fix the problem. Gas demand is the lowest since 1994. The free market is the problem. Ban oil speculation and the price drops. That's the whole problem.


Yeah, let's have have price controls. That'll work.
 
2012-02-19 10:03:57 AM  
OK GOP, lets say Obama says " No more oil speculation, you want to buy 100k of oil, you get to take physical ownership.'"

They would then raise holy hell about govt regulation.

Two decades ago, we did not have this speculation. A company who bought oil had to really use it. The our friend at Goldmen Sacks got a pass from the SEC not have to take physical ownership. Then Phil Gram drafted a bill to let anyone buy and sell oil. It passed and here we are.

Get rid of the speculation and it will help. But cheap oil is gone for good.
 
2012-02-19 10:09:44 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: So if Keystone XL happened, we'd get first dibs on the oil, and at a discount too?


Without it, China is.
 
2012-02-19 10:10:14 AM  

1macgeek: Too damn bad the skyrocketing gas prices already ate up the payroll tax break, and the "job growth" was actually caused by people dropping out of looking for work. And the surging stock market? Well, if Apple were listed on the Dow rather than NASDAQ we would be staring at a 15K Dow instead of 13K.


So, Apple fanboism isn't the only mindless groupthink you subscribe to?

THINK FOR YOURSELF.
 
2012-02-19 10:11:38 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo:

Ooh! Scary GOP operatives drive the price of oil around for the purpose of influencing elections!

/this is what some Liberals actually believe



Considering that they were willing to nose-dive the economy in order to make Obama look bad (and a multitude of other dick moves), it's not an implausible scenario, especially when you consider who's bankrolling them.
 
2012-02-19 10:12:01 AM  
High gas prices are Obama's fault? So he went back in his time machine to 2005 and jacked up prices, and then kept them there until he assumed power in 2009, from which he orchestrated them to go down to around $1.50 around 2008 to give him a challenge to being re-elected?

The Republicans are stretching with their projection. Then again, it's easy to fool someone who thinks everybody thinks just like them.
 
2012-02-19 10:12:53 AM  
It helps when the president, vice president, and most of the staff aren't in the business of selling oil.
 
2012-02-19 10:13:25 AM  
a couple of things, republicans, before you unleash your cunning plan:

1) gas prices were way above $4/gal in the summer of 2008 under bush
2) the reason they plummeted to $2/gal at the end of his term is because the US economy had collapsed under his watch.

are you sure you want to remind people of this?
 
2012-02-19 10:14:36 AM  

cabbyman:

He must have been a super genius to have fooled so many smart people!


No, he was a dolt actually, but was surrounded by clever people. Clever, evil people.
 
2012-02-19 10:15:14 AM  

FlashHarry: a couple of things, republicans, before you unleash your cunning plan:

1) gas prices were way above $4/gal in the summer of 2008 under bush
2) the reason they plummeted to $2/gal at the end of his term is because the US economy had collapsed under his watch.

are you sure you want to remind people of this?


It's better than attacking women's reproductive organs. For the GOP, this is pure genius.
 
2012-02-19 10:17:12 AM  
The only times going forward that gasoline will ever again be somewhat cheap will be when the global economy is in the shiatter. So in that sense, yes, vote Republican if you want low gas prices.
 
2012-02-19 10:19:06 AM  

ghare: So the REAL cost of living 20 miles farther away from work is not $24 a week. It's $161 a week. $692.30 a month.


You're forgetting to factor in the money dropped into 12 lane highways, interchanges that take up the space of a small town, or the environmental/health cost of dumping various pollutants into the air in populated areas.

It's frequently trotted out how many subsidies public transportation gets. When you factor in all of the real costs of a commuter culture it's quite obvious which form of transportation gets more subsidies.
 
2012-02-19 10:19:19 AM  
Obama's response on this point will be the same as his response to virtually every criticism of his policy: Look, we're doing the best we can. We don't like high gas prices any more than you do but the geopolitical realities are such that they're going to be high no matter what. Even if the Iranian people overthrew the mullahs tomorrow and put an end to the nuclear brinkmanship, oil prices would still be high. Even if we drill baby drilled every place we could regardless of environmental impact, oil prices would be high. Even if we split the country down the middle with a hastily constructed pipeline from Canada, oil prices would be high. There are certain policies we would like to implement that would reduce our dependence on traditional fuel sources, but the intransigent repubs in Congress block our every move. There's no magic formula that will get prices back below two dollars a gallon but if we work together and avoid unnecessary obstructionism in Congress, we can get energy costs under control again.
 
2012-02-19 10:20:35 AM  
What do they mean "soaring?"
 
2012-02-19 10:26:19 AM  

winterwhile: HotIgneous Intruder: The price of gasoline isn't soaring.

yea

it only doubled from 1.78 to over $4.00 on the Obama watch

can he double it again in 4 years?

please?


Yeah, remember at the end of Bush's term when the economy was so far in the shiatter that it actually scared speculators away from oil?

Good times. Let's go back there like Republicans have been trying to do.
 
2012-02-19 10:34:50 AM  
winterwhile: derp

Ahhh, the wetbrain speaks up
 
2012-02-19 10:35:41 AM  
fta GOP sees chance to attack Obama on rising gas prices
seecrit mooslim
terrorist fist jabs
WHERE BIRTH CERTIFICATE!
elitist childhood and upbringing
lapel pins
lettuce and mustard
flag stickers on airplanes
shiat his pastor says
nazi socialist
death panels


Desperate flailing is desperate.
 
2012-02-19 10:37:25 AM  
theundergroundconservative.files.wordpress.com

And the real kicker ... What rogue nation did Reagan collude with in order to keep crises rolling through the election?
 
2012-02-19 10:38:05 AM  

bugontherug: heinekenftw: badhatharry: If gas is too expensive, don't buy it. Search for the lowest price in town. Use as little as possible.

Yes. I'll just not buy gas. That'll work.

"Hey Chief, I can't make it to my drill weekend this month, I don't want to buy gas."

Oh I suppose the Reserves can reimburse me for the two hour trip to base every month . . . oh wait they don't. And its a four hour trip in the summer time because my home is further away than my college.

Don't listen to him. People who don't understand the concept of "inelastic demand" are morons.


Really?

I bought a bike and moved within 10 miles of everywhere I need to be on a regular basis. Sold my car and take public transportation when the distance is impractical to bike (50+ miles).

It's only inelastic if you're lazy or have painted yourself into a corner by attaining obligations that require you to travel too much. Either way it's your own fault.
 
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