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(Lacrosse Tribune)   An OWI with a hit and run thrown in is never a good way to end an evening, but when you're a cop do you get credit for your own arrest? I have the right to remain silent, I have the right to an attorney   (lacrossetribune.com ) divider line
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5743 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2012 at 4:42 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-19 05:57:27 PM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Ya know, pure conjecture, folks were biatching up thread about him not being identified....I find that odd too. EVERYONE is identified to the press down here, the only thing they won't release is home address for obvious reasons...makes me wonder if this guy/gal could be an undercover narc.....if that were the case I could understand the caution of revealing them publicly...

"Hey Sammy, look at this guy on the 6 o'clock news....this cop that got busted for drunk driving.....hey, wait a sec, he looks an AWFUL lot like that guy that you brought in last week to tour our operation....*BLAM*"


From what I can gather there's a "gentlemen's agreement" not to release the name of the offending officer at all, even if they're caught in a different jurisdiction. But when some department's don't get along (like the gf's department and the next door county sheriff's department) they'll release the name to the media who lap it up.
 
2012-02-19 06:20:23 PM  

MorganFreeman: What the hell is a OWI?


It's what we in Wisconsin call DUI. Or rather transportation on a day that ends in 'y'
 
2012-02-19 06:31:15 PM  

CruiserTwelve: fnordfocus: A civilian arrested for OWI and hit and run wouldn't get a chance to post bond until he was arraigned on Monday, then face criminal charges and lose his job for missing a day of work.

An Officer gets a ride home, a paid vacation, and administrative review instead of criminal charges. If there were criminal charges, his union would pay bail and provide a tax-payer funded lawyer.

Every aspect of this post is wrong. A civilian arrested for DUI could either spend the night in detox or be jailed. If jailed, he would have the right to bail as soon as he was sober. You don't have to wait until your first court appearance to post bail.

The second sentence of your post is refuted by the very article you're responding to. The cop was arrested, he didn't get a ride home. In addition to criminal charges, he's facing internal charges that will likely result in suspension or termination above and beyond whatever sentence he gets from the court.

Police unions don't bail cops out of jail on charges that they incurred while off duty, nor do they commonly provide a lawyer for the criminal charges from off-duty incidents. That could vary depending on the union and whether the members are willing to pay sufficient dues to provide these services. The cop will probably get a lawyer to represent him on the internal charges, assuming his department is unionized. NONE of those costs come from taxpayers. Police unions are financed by dues paid by their membership, not by the taxpayers.

As for the "paid vacation" part of your post, yes, this cop will likely be suspended with pay. I would hardly call that a paid vacation though. He gets to sit home and wonder if he still has a job and how he's going to pay his bills and, if he gets fired, how he's ever going to find another job with a DUI conviction. Also, most agencies will suspend with pay until criminal charges are filed. at which time the suspension is without pay. So as soon as he appears in court and gets formally charg ...


Arrest + ROR = ride home. Can you really post bond for DWI in Colorado before arraignment? That certainly isn't an option where I live. Hell, OWS protesters were held with no bail on misdemeanor disorderly conduct charges for 5-6 days before being arraigned last year.

Once again, the criminal charges will disappear anyway and the Officer will face only departmental charges. That's even how retired Officers get treated where I live.

Finally, at least in my state, the cost of bail and defense is paid for from a state-funded pool. Sure, the right to this is negotiated, but the dollars come from the taxpayers not union dues. I'll also point out that Sergeant Drew Peterson even had a union lawyer handle one of his (civil) divorces, which couldn't possible be job-related.
 
2012-02-19 08:21:16 PM  

fnordfocus: Arrest + ROR = ride home. Can you really post bond for DWI in Colorado before arraignment? That certainly isn't an option where I live. Hell, OWS protesters were held with no bail on misdemeanor disorderly conduct charges for 5-6 days before being arraigned last year.


One) Where the FARK do you live that DUI is a no-bond offense? And B) Citation, please.
 
2012-02-19 09:51:40 PM  
fnordfocus Arrest + ROR = ride home. Can you really post bond for DWI in Colorado before arraignment? That certainly isn't an option where I live. Hell, OWS protesters were held with no bail on misdemeanor disorderly conduct charges for 5-6 days before being arraigned last year.

Once again, the criminal charges will disappear anyway and the Officer will face only departmental charges. That's even how retired Officers get treated where I live.

Finally, at least in my state, the cost of bail and defense is paid for from a state-funded pool. Sure, the right to this is negotiated, but the dollars come from the taxpayers not union dues. I'll also point out that Sergeant Drew Peterson even had a union lawyer handle one of his (civil) divorces, which couldn't possible be job-related.


Speaking for my agency (and many others that I know have the same practice) a person arrested for DUI spends the night in detox and doesn't have to post bond at all. The exception is if the person does not have good ID or is combative. Then he goes to jail but can be bailed out in the morning.

No, this cop will not get the charges dropped. What makes you think that? And how does a retired cop face departmental charges?

I'd like to see some evidence that bail and defense charges for cops is paid from a state funded pool anywhere, especially for off-duty criminal acts. I call bullshiat on that one.

If Drew Peterson had a union lawyer pay for his civil divorce, then his union must have opted for that and their members must pay extra dues for that benefit. I can't imagine any union duing that, but I suppose it could happen.
 
2012-02-19 10:14:54 PM  
fnordfocus: Finally, at least in my state, the cost of bail and defense is paid for from a state-funded pool. Sure, the right to this is negotiated, but the dollars come from the taxpayers not union dues. I'll also point out that Sergeant Drew Peterson even had a union lawyer handle one of his (civil) divorces, which couldn't possible be job-related.

What?

Sorry. I'm going to go with CT on this one too. Citation Needed.

In addition to this, while the lawyer might have been contracted to the union, do you have proof that the lawyer was paid in union funds? Just because it's a union lawyer does not mean that he did not take a private case from a union member. That's a little different than saying the union paid for his civil case unrelated to his job.
 
2012-02-20 01:18:21 AM  

CruiserTwelve: Speaking for my agency (and many others that I know have the same practice) a person arrested for DUI spends the night in detox and doesn't have to post bond at all. The exception is if the person does not have good ID or is combative. Then he goes to jail but can be bailed out in the morning.

No, this cop will not get the charges dropped. What makes you think that? And how does a retired cop face departmental charges?

I'd like to see some evidence that bail and defense charges for cops is paid from a state funded pool anywhere, especially for off-duty criminal acts. I call bullshiat on that one.

If Drew Peterson had a union lawyer pay for his civil divorce, then his union must have opted for that and their members must pay extra dues for that benefit. I can't imagine any union duing that, but I suppose it could happen.


I live in California. I don't feel safe telling you specifically where in a thread where I've criticized Law Enforcement Officers, although I imagine you could just ask Drew for my IP address. I've never been arrested for DWI, but I don't see the charges anywhere on my county's bail schedule, and the DARE Officers you sent to my driver's ed classes a few decades back were pretty specific that anyone arrested for DWI (I think it was still DUI back then) would spend the weekend in jail with no bail.

As far as department charges, a retired local Officer killed one of my neighbors a few years back while DWI, and the charges went away as an internal department issue.

Finally, PORAC (the Police Officer's Research Association of California), which provides both civil and criminal representation to California Officers, gets most of its funding from members, but also gets funding from state vehicle license fees. I can't speak to how your comrade Drew's union divorce lawyer was paid, but he's certainly not using the public defender on the murder charges.
 
2012-02-20 06:29:38 AM  

fnordfocus: I don't feel safe telling you specifically where in a thread where I've criticized Law Enforcement Officers, although I imagine you could just ask Drew for my IP address.


Notsureifserious.jpg.......but wow.

I've never been arrested for DWI, but I don't see the charges anywhere on my county's bail schedule,

Then look for the charge that says something like "not otherwise listed" and you'll find the bail probably around $2,500. I'm not researching every CA County, but the 5 I just looked at it ranges from that up to $100,000 for vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated.

I've never been arrested for DWI, but I don't see the charges anywhere on my county's bail schedule,

Oh, so you have no clue what you're talking about. Well, why didn't you just say so?

Finally, PORAC (the Police Officer's Research Association of California), which provides both civil and criminal representation to California Officers, gets most of its funding from members, but also gets funding from state vehicle license fees.

Citation? There is no mention of a fee for PORAC ANYWHERE on the California DMV website.

I can't speak to how your comrade Drew's union divorce lawyer was paid, but he's certainly not using the public defender on the murder charges.

Wait, which is it, his divorce lawyer or his defense lawyer? And...got a citation for this situation? A google search turns up....nothing.
 
2012-02-20 11:38:14 AM  

fnordfocus: and the DARE Officers you sent to my driver's ed classes a few decades back were pretty specific that anyone arrested for DWI (I think it was still DUI back then) would spend the weekend in jail with no bail.


I didn't send any DARE officers anywhere. I have nothing to do with the DARE program and nothing to do with the police in your community. Stop clumping all cops together into one giant entity. Each department and each union has its own rules and procedures.

No, a person cannot be denied bail for a misedemeanor DUI offense. The 8th amendment says so. "Preventative detention" is allowed which permits the person to be held until sober, but once sober the person must be allowed bail.

As far as department charges, a retired local Officer killed one of my neighbors a few years back while DWI, and the charges went away as an internal department issue.

Citation? How could a police agency possibly bring internal charges against a retired member?

Finally, PORAC (the Police Officer's Research Association of California), which provides both civil and criminal representation to California Officers, gets most of its funding from members, but also gets funding from state vehicle license fees. I can't speak to how your comrade Drew's union divorce lawyer was paid, but he's certainly not using the public defender on the murder charges.

My union uses PORAC to manage its legal defense fund (they're a national organization) and they're funded by drawing a percentage of the union's legal defense money. They get no outside funding from the government in Colorado and I can't see any reason why California would provide them with government funds. Again, I'd like to see some evidence to support your claim. It defies logic.

Finally, why would you possibly think I would ask Drew for your IP address, and why do you think Drew would provide it? You've got a very, very irrational view of cops and police agencies. Getting your information about cops from Fark is like getting your information about Democrats from Rush Limbaugh. It's not even close to accurate.
 
2012-02-20 12:24:19 PM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Wait, which is it, his divorce lawyer or his defense lawyer? And...got a citation for this situation? A google search turns up....nothing.


Seperate issues. Union is clearly paying for the criminal defense, because Joel Brodsky doesn't work for public defender wages.

With respect to the divorce, it was a union lawyer. I don't know who paid for sure:

Several months after Savio died, Peterson replaced his divorce attorney, Alex Beck, with Joseph Mazzone, a former Will County prosecutor who is chief counsel for a police union. Beck, who did not return phone calls for this story, filed paperwork seeking to have his expenses repaid, including for work on the deposition and subpoena shortly before Savio's death.

Note the the divorce was final, but he was still fighting with his wife's estate over property.
 
2012-02-20 06:16:29 PM  

fnordfocus: NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Wait, which is it, his divorce lawyer or his defense lawyer? And...got a citation for this situation? A google search turns up....nothing.

Seperate issues. Union is clearly paying for the criminal defense, because Joel Brodsky doesn't work for public defender wages.

With respect to the divorce, it was a union lawyer. I don't know who paid for sure:

Several months after Savio died, Peterson replaced his divorce attorney, Alex Beck, with Joseph Mazzone, a former Will County prosecutor who is chief counsel for a police union. Beck, who did not return phone calls for this story, filed paperwork seeking to have his expenses repaid, including for work on the deposition and subpoena shortly before Savio's death.

Note the the divorce was final, but he was still fighting with his wife's estate over property.


I see. So, one lawyer is expensive, so the union must be paying for it....and the other lawyer actually represents the union, so...the union must be paying for it.

Got a citation somewhere saying, oh, I don't know...that the police union is actually paying for any of this?

And even IF they are, even IF this is a union that actually provides legal services to it's members outside of line of duty stuff........so the guy joined (and paid into) a good union....so the fark what?
 
2012-02-20 09:44:24 PM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Got a citation somewhere saying, oh, I don't know...that the police union is actually paying for any of this?

And even IF they are, even IF this is a union that actually provides legal services to it's members outside of line of duty stuff........so the guy joined (and paid into) a good union....so the fark what?


Of course not, it's illegal for civilians to have access to financial information involving Police Officers, but your colleague has been saying for year's that he's destitute while hiring a team of thousand dollar an hour lawyers.

As for so what -- it does bother me that US Law Enforcement Officer are essentially entirely above the law, to the point that y'all can execute ex-wives, or kill people while DWI, and laugh about it while you keep your jobs, pensions, etc. Even if you go to prison, you keep your pensions, but if a civilian goes to jail you confiscate his assets so he gets out with no job, no savings, and no chance of anything but going back in the system.

Why are y'all so sensitive about this? I would think you would want the "sheep" to know how untouchable you are.
 
2012-02-20 10:01:26 PM  

CruiserTwelve: I didn't send any DARE officers anywhere. I have nothing to do with the DARE program and nothing to do with the police in your community. Stop clumping all cops together into one giant entity. Each department and each union has its own rules and procedures.


You chose your profession, deal with it. If you don't want to be grouped with your colleagues, why do you defend every single farking Officer who ever gets into the news here? Can you honestly tell me you've never referred to all of us civilians as "subjects" for example?

Citation? How could a police agency possibly bring internal charges against a retired member?

No, because that would reveal where I live. But that's sort of the point. They can't, so he got away with it.

I can't see any reason why California would provide them with government funds. Again, I'd like to see some evidence to support your claim. It defies logic.

Google "PORAC" and "VLF" on your next coffee break.

Finally, why would you possibly think I would ask Drew for your IP address, and why do you think Drew would provide it? You've got a very, very irrational view of cops and police agencies. Getting your information about cops from Fark is like getti ...

Because people who disrespect Officers tend do end up in jail on contempt-of-Cop charges? So you can send the SWAT by to kill me? How should I know. But, for the record my view of Officers is based on the law, the news, and how you treat me.

Finally, just like I asked the previous Officer, why do you care that the public knows how powerful and untouchable our Police Officers are? It's not like we can do anything to change the situation.
 
2012-02-20 11:00:28 PM  
fnordfocus

Dude, calm the fark down. You've turned a case of a DUI with no property damage or injuries into farkin' American Gangster. The officer in TFA will get 6 months light duty, possibly even lose their weapon for the duration, and get a bit of knock next time they write for promotion.
 
2012-02-20 11:33:07 PM  

Ken VeryBigLiar: fnordfocus

Dude, calm the fark down. You've turned a case of a DUI with no property damage or injuries into farkin' American Gangster. The officer in TFA will get 6 months light duty, possibly even lose their weapon for the duration, and get a bit of knock next time they write for promotion.


So, essentially no punishment, while a civilian would get 5-180 days in jail, lose their license, lose their job, have their car confiscated, etc.
 
2012-02-20 11:38:38 PM  

fnordfocus: You chose your profession, deal with it. If you don't want to be grouped with your colleagues, why do you defend every single farking Officer who ever gets into the news here? Can you honestly tell me you've never referred to all of us civilians as "subjects" for example?


I've condemned bad cops many times here, but you refuse to acknowledge those times because you might actually have to admit that you're wrong.

No, because that would reveal where I live. But that's sort of the point. They can't, so he got away with it.

I see. First they filed internal charges but when you get called on it, they didn't.

Google "PORAC" and "VLF" on your next coffee break.

How about you do the Googling and post some links. It was your statement, present some evidence.

Because people who disrespect Officers tend do end up in jail on contempt-of-Cop charges? So you can send the SWAT by to kill me? How should I know. But, for the record my view of Officers is based on the law, the news, and how you treat me.

You're not wrapped too tight, are you?
 
2012-02-20 11:47:12 PM  

CruiserTwelve: I've condemned bad cops many times here, but you refuse to acknowledge those times because you might actually have to admit that you're wrong.


You've said crap like constables aren't really police officers, so it's okay. You've said crap to the effect of if he did it, but of course he didn't, then that would be bad. I've never seen you actually write that you believe that any specific officer ever did (or could do) anything wrong.

No, because that would reveal where I live. But that's sort of the point. They can't, so he got away with it.

I see. First they filed internal charges but when you get called on it, they didn't.


That's not what I said, milord. I said only internal charges could apply, but since he was retired there were no farking charges at all. So, retired Police Officers can get loaded and run down 80-year old civilians, and get a ride home and that's the end of it.

How about you do the Googling and post some links. It was your statement, present some evidence.

I know that Police Officers aren't held to the law. You're an Officer, so you know it first hand. Why should I go through the work. And why do you care that lowlife subjects like me know that you are above the law?
 
2012-02-21 12:21:42 AM  

fnordfocus: So, essentially no punishment, while a civilian would get 5-180 days in jail, lose their license, lose their job, have their car confiscated, etc.


You think a similar DUI in Wisconsin gets you ANYTHING close to the punishments you've described? Have you ever read a Fark headline about us? A DUI is a municipal offense here unless you have a minor in the vehicle or do some serious bodily injury to someone. It's little more than a traffic ticket here for just about all of us. Few people get any time here until they get to a third or fourth offense and it's in county with work release. You get an occupational license and can still operate on holidays and for religious reasons. As for losing a job, sure if you have a CDL but otherwise here it won't even get you a lecture from the boss.
 
2012-02-21 08:55:36 AM  

fnordfocus: You've said crap like constables aren't really police officers, so it's okay.


I've never said that.

You've said crap to the effect of if he did it, but of course he didn't, then that would be bad. I've never seen you actually write that you believe that any specific officer ever did (or could do) anything wrong.

Like I said, you've chosen to ignore the times I've been critical of cops because you can't admit that your beliefs are wrong.

That's not what I said, milord. I said only internal charges could apply, but since he was retired there were no farking charges at all. So, retired Police Officers can get loaded and run down 80-year old civilians, and get a ride home and that's the end of it.

Here's exactly what you said: "As far as department charges, a retired local Officer killed one of my neighbors a few years back while DWI, and the charges went away as an internal department issue". When I asked how they could bring internal charges against a retired member, you then said this: "I said only internal charges could apply, but since he was retired there were no farking charges at all." Explain that.

I know that Police Officers aren't held to the law. You're an Officer, so you know it first hand. Why should I go through the work.

You don't have to support your arguments at all, unless you want to build some credibility. Currently you have very little.

And why do you care that lowlife subjects like me know that you are above the law?

Okay, that's just goofy. I don't know why you consider yourself a lowlife, but then I don't know much about you. And why do you consider me above the law? You seem to hold some odd beliefs that aren't supported by reality.

.
 
2012-02-21 12:30:58 PM  

CruiserTwelve: fnordfocus: You've said crap like constables aren't really police officers, so it's okay.

I've never said that.


Yes, you did. I can Google after all:

Hey Subby - He was neither on duty nor driving a patrol car. He wasn't a cop either. He was some guy that serves civil papers and he was driving a car that says "Constable" on the side.
 
2012-02-21 01:38:13 PM  

fnordfocus: CruiserTwelve: fnordfocus: You've said crap like constables aren't really police officers, so it's okay.

I've never said that.

Yes, you did. I can Google after all:

Hey Subby - He was neither on duty nor driving a patrol car. He wasn't a cop either. He was some guy that serves civil papers and he was driving a car that says "Constable" on the side.


Yeah, that's exactly like saying constables aren't police officers. Except it's nothing at all like it. If I write "doctor" on my car, does that make me a doctor?
 
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