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(Orlando Sentinel)   Do you think your precocious kindergartener is ready for college but being discriminated against for her age? Don't worry, the Feds have your back   (orlandosentinel.com) divider line 137
    More: Stupid, U.S. Department of Education, colleges, community colleges  
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13447 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2012 at 3:24 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-18 08:02:39 PM

Trance750: eggrolls: Once more, for the idiots in the back row:

GETTING INTO COLLEGE IS NOT A GUARANTEED RIGHT. EVER.

As you were.

This. 100% this.

/sick and tired of the entitlement generation


This is probably threadjacking a bit, but you do realize that under your logic, you then have to come up with jobs for people who don't have degrees, right?

And no one in the real world is doing that anymore, right?

/I have no problem with people paying for it, but this isn't 'the entitlement generation', people go to college because they like eating.
 
2012-02-18 08:39:59 PM
My Dad used to teach at a Community College with 12,000 students. I all but grew up on campus. I never had a bit of problems or had any issues with the students. I was dual enrolled when i was 15, but took some continuing ed classes at around 10 or 12 and 'kiddie' classes they offered on computers when I was probably 7. I helped in the math lab (great way to meet people), the college president knew me, and pretty much had everything but a set of keys to the place.
 
2012-02-18 08:45:43 PM

TheGreatGazoo: My Dad used to teach at a Community College with 12,000 students. I all but grew up on campus. I never had a bit of problems or had any issues with the students. I was dual enrolled when i was 15, but took some continuing ed classes at around 10 or 12 and 'kiddie' classes they offered on computers when I was probably 7. I helped in the math lab (great way to meet people), the college president knew me, and pretty much had everything but a set of keys to the place.


Was your father Professor Leonard Cakes?
 
2012-02-18 08:56:42 PM
Headline: Do you think your precocious kindergartener is ready for college but being discriminated against for her age? Don't worry, the Feds have your back
Actual article: 12-year-old tries to go to college

Subby, you may have still been in kindergarten at age 12, but that doesn't mean everyone else was.
 
2012-02-18 09:09:42 PM

Teufelaffe: Headline: Do you think your precocious kindergartener is ready for college but being discriminated against for her age? Don't worry, the Feds have your back
Actual article: 12-year-old tries to go to college

Subby, you may have still been in kindergarten at age 12, but that doesn't mean everyone else was.


Sounds like subby was attempting hyperbole, reasoning that if the law allows a 12 year old to do it, then the more moronic parents might think their kindergartener is so special that the kindergartener should attend classes at a community college.
 
2012-02-18 09:29:59 PM

cjoshuav: TheDirtyNacho: I believe far more high-IQ children have been harmed by being held back for 'social' reasons than by allowing them to move ahead at their own pace.

This is, in fact, what the research on profoundly gifted students shows - consistently. The Davidson and Templeton Foundations have done considerable work in this area, and often times PG students do better when accelerated by two or more grades.


Yep, that's me.

When I was in 1st grade, I was one of two students that the teacher simply hated, mainly because we asked intelligent questions and didn't fall for BS answers. I admit it, I was an insufferable know-it-all. Once, as punishment for being a 'smart-ass', the teacher sent me to the 3rd-grade class for a day in what I can only assume was an attempt to make me feel stupid (in comparison to third-graders).

I loved it. For the rest of the year, I tried to convince my parents and the principal to skip me forward a year or two. I worked hard and passed all the tests they could come up with. I conclusively proved that I already knew everything I would have been tested on in first and second grade.

My requests were denied, because they felt I would be denied the chance to interact with children my own age. They didn't seem to care that I already spent my after-school time with a dozen or so kids who lived within a few blocks of my home.

The rest of my public school career can be summarized with a single quote: "I don't give a shiat."
I continued to not give a shiat until I was in college. THEN I started enjoying school.
 
2012-02-18 09:39:35 PM

Jgok: When I was in 1st grade, I was one of two students that the teacher simply hated, mainly because we asked intelligent questions and didn't fall for BS answers. I admit it, I was an insufferable know-it-all. Once, as punishment for being a 'smart-ass', the teacher sent me to the 3rd-grade class for a day in what I can only assume was an attempt to make me feel stupid (in comparison to third-graders).I loved it. For the rest of the year, I tried to convince my parents and the principal to skip me forward a year or two. I worked hard and passed all the tests they could come up with. I conclusively proved that I already knew everything I would have been tested on in first and second grade.My requests were denied, because they felt I would be denied the chance to interact with children my own age. They didn't seem to care that I already spent my after-school time with a dozen or so kids who lived within a few blocks of my home.


Now I think I'm going down to the well tonight
and I'm going to drink till I get my fill
And I hope when I get old I don't sit around thinking about it
but I probably will
Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture
a little of the glory of, well time slips away
and leaves you with nothing mister but
boring stories of glory days

Glory days well they'll pass you by
Glory days in the wink of a young girl's eye
Glory days, glory days

/sorry
 
2012-02-18 10:40:29 PM

Jument: We "discriminate" against children all the time. They can't drive, vote, drink, buy smokes, go to war or become president, for example. They are *children*. We coddle them for their own safety, not because we're discriminating against them.


That's a poor argument. All children are protected from those examples you stated, as will the 12-year old subject of the article. A 13-year old delinquent will not have a right to enter higher education becuase he/she does't qualify. It's not about buying cigarettes and beer. It's about a minor who clearly is able to handle advanced education. I don't see any signs posted at the door of a local community college that state "if you are born after XXX date, you cannot be admitted."
 
2012-02-18 11:00:57 PM
Dear Diary,

Jackpot.
 
2012-02-18 11:32:50 PM
How does this deserve a "stupid" tag? Unless the stupid is for the college. It is a public community college and should serve anyone who meets the requirements, regardless of age. I applaud this action. How anyone could be against American children receiving higher education is beyond me.
 
2012-02-18 11:41:04 PM
Wow, seems to be a lot of people resentful that they weren't child prodigies themselves. If she's smart enough and wants to try, let her. Not everyone develops at the same rate mentally and someone with an IQ ready for college, as this girl's test scores (a much more important factor than age) seem to indicate, shouldn't be forced to wait for no reason other than the number of years they've been on earth. Worried about the independence of college? Don't have her living on campus, let her go to classes and come home the way she would with any other school. Problem solved. What the hell do you all have against letting someone shine to their full potential before they reach your arbitrary number? This isn't about things like sex, beer, cigarettes and other things that she is almost certainly not ready for psychologically, but if mentally she can handle the class? Go for it. If she finds she can't, she can pull out and try again in a few years. This isn't rocket science.
 
2012-02-18 11:41:58 PM

Shahab: How anyone could be against American children receiving higher education is beyond me.


Stupidity loves company even more than misery.
 
2012-02-18 11:58:46 PM

batcookie: What the hell do you all have against letting someone shine to their full potential before they reach your arbitrary number?


Because it calls into question the entire arbitrary number system some people are so invested in.

If a system were invented that could prove that a person was psychologically ready to drink a beer or be independent, vote, whatever. Let's say it was perfect, say some telepathic aliens landed and were able to unlock the mysteries of our brains and give us infallible, quantifiable information on each person's abilities. I guarantee that all the people who harp on age as the measure of a person would fight this system to the end as it's not about health or safety, it's about keeping different people in their respective little boxes.

To them allowing a 12 year old to attend some classes on a community college campus undermines the whole separation between high school and college. If this middle school aged girl can handle college classes, then some of those high school kids might too and there could be an "epidemic" of people who may not need high school, or who (god forbid) meet all the requirements to graduate without spending 12 years to do it.

These different little "systems" have become ends unto themselves. People can't be allowed to stray outside the lines because then others might question the integrity or accuracy of the placement of those lines and then next thing you know there might be fewer lines.
 
2012-02-19 12:04:39 AM

pedrop357: batcookie: What the hell do you all have against letting someone shine to their full potential before they reach your arbitrary number?

Because it calls into question the entire arbitrary number system some people are so invested in.

If a system were invented that could prove that a person was psychologically ready to drink a beer or be independent, vote, whatever. Let's say it was perfect, say some telepathic aliens landed and were able to unlock the mysteries of our brains and give us infallible, quantifiable information on each person's abilities. I guarantee that all the people who harp on age as the measure of a person would fight this system to the end as it's not about health or safety, it's about keeping different people in their respective little boxes.

To them allowing a 12 year old to attend some classes on a community college campus undermines the whole separation between high school and college. If this middle school aged girl can handle college classes, then some of those high school kids might too and there could be an "epidemic" of people who may not need high school, or who (god forbid) meet all the requirements to graduate without spending 12 years to do it.

These different little "systems" have become ends unto themselves. People can't be allowed to stray outside the lines because then others might question the integrity or accuracy of the placement of those lines and then next thing you know there might be fewer lines.


Even more reason to challenge it.
 
2012-02-19 12:49:52 AM
going to say this, if i walked in to a class that could stray in to any conversational subject, and there was a 12 year girl and her dad siting in the class

I am dropping the class.

It is all good and fun to say "O she has traveled around the world and is very mature", but anyone who has even taken a college class know at any time a class can get completely off subject and become a Debate on the social and political issues of the day. and quite frankly sticking a child in the classroom is going to make it so that many students don't feel conferrable with expressing there opinions
 
2012-02-19 01:10:30 AM
I started college at 15, and wish it had been 3 years earlier. High school was a massive waste of time and college students were far nicer (let you be you w/o all the infantile peer pressure).

You can be sure my dad wasn't sitting with me in class, either.

And why on earth would community college officials be worried about what a 12-year-old might hear or see on campus? Have they NO idea what goes on in high school?
 
2012-02-19 01:19:58 AM

thenumber5: going to say this, if i walked in to a class that could stray in to any conversational subject, and there was a 12 year girl and her dad siting in the class

I am dropping the class.

It is all good and fun to say "O she has traveled around the world and is very mature", but anyone who has even taken a college class know at any time a class can get completely off subject and become a Debate on the social and political issues of the day. and quite frankly sticking a child in the classroom is going to make it so that many students don't feel conferrable with expressing there opinions


Sounds like your own personal hang up, dude, not anyone else's. Children should be talked to like they have a modicum of intelligence anyway, whereas you seem to fall into the category of people who consistently talk to them in baby talk, condescend, shield them, and/or feel that they should be "seen and not heard." Those things are not conducive to intellectual development. Frankly the only problem with this is yours, not hers.
 
2012-02-19 01:23:43 AM

CalvinLives: And why on earth would community college officials be worried about what a 12-year-old might hear or see on campus? Have they NO idea what goes on in high school?


You have two schools of thought on this one - the crazy helo-parents who think high schools are nothing but raving sex orgies and poke their nose in at every opportunity, and the ones who like to cover their ears and pretend that high school is completely innocent and that no one has even heard of things like sex and drugs until they turn 18 (or sometime when parents are REALLY in denial, ever). As usual the truth lies in the middle, but people don't tend to work that way. (Perhaps we should stop drinking Mountain Dew, because clearly we're all far too X-TREME.)
 
2012-02-19 03:44:41 AM
If there was a 12-year old girl in a college class that I was taking I would treat her just as adult in regards to conversation. I would not curtail my speech in any way. If her parents want have the privilege of going to college then let it me on their heads if she gets offended/upset by anything that she might hear.
 
2012-02-19 04:06:43 AM

Kuroshin: cman: So, it's discrimination for children not to go to college for their age, but barring them from buyin beer and cigarettes isn't? How about the age restrictions on driving?

Scholastic merit is different from restrictions on purchasing poison or piloting machinery.

Granted, some little kids are quite good at driving. I'd support provisions allowing them to operate vehicles, provided they can prove their competence.

Hell, we don't even ask adults to prove competence, so it's still a little unfair.

Too bad. Get a helmet.


Well said. The "test" for my motorcycle license was to ride once around the block. "As long as you don't break the law or lay the bike down, you pass."

/been riding 6k a year since August 14 2008
//always wears helmet
///has only crashed once and it was minor
 
2012-02-19 04:53:39 AM

Mock26: If there was a 12-year old girl in a college class that I was taking I would treat her just as adult in regards to conversation. I would not curtail my speech in any way. If her parents want have the privilege of going to college then let it me on their heads if she gets offended/upset by anything that she might hear.


Hear hear.
 
2012-02-19 05:34:58 AM

batcookie: thenumber5: going to say this, if i walked in to a class that could stray in to any conversational subject, and there was a 12 year girl and her dad siting in the class

I am dropping the class.

It is all good and fun to say "O she has traveled around the world and is very mature", but anyone who has even taken a college class know at any time a class can get completely off subject and become a Debate on the social and political issues of the day. and quite frankly sticking a child in the classroom is going to make it so that many students don't feel conferrable with expressing there opinions

Sounds like your own personal hang up, dude, not anyone else's. Children should be talked to like they have a modicum of intelligence anyway, whereas you seem to fall into the category of people who consistently talk to them in baby talk, condescend, shield them, and/or feel that they should be "seen and not heard." Those things are not conducive to intellectual development. Frankly the only problem with this is yours, not hers.


Well good to know you dont live in the real world

And you know what, Children should be "seen and not heard" i am sorry to burst your teenage self importance bubble, but your an idiot and have nothing to add to the conversation 99% of time.
 
2012-02-19 05:46:43 AM

thenumber5: batcookie: thenumber5: going to say this, if i walked in to a class that could stray in to any conversational subject, and there was a 12 year girl and her dad siting in the class

I am dropping the class.

It is all good and fun to say "O she has traveled around the world and is very mature", but anyone who has even taken a college class know at any time a class can get completely off subject and become a Debate on the social and political issues of the day. and quite frankly sticking a child in the classroom is going to make it so that many students don't feel conferrable with expressing there opinions

Sounds like your own personal hang up, dude, not anyone else's. Children should be talked to like they have a modicum of intelligence anyway, whereas you seem to fall into the category of people who consistently talk to them in baby talk, condescend, shield them, and/or feel that they should be "seen and not heard." Those things are not conducive to intellectual development. Frankly the only problem with this is yours, not hers.

Well good to know you dont live in the real world

And you know what, Children should be "seen and not heard" i am sorry to burst your teenage self importance bubble, but your an idiot and have nothing to add to the conversation 99% of time.


"Teenage"? Hahaha not even close, I'm just not a douchebag. From what I see, they have a hell of a lot more to add than you seem to. And it's "don't" and "you're," and you don't capitalize after a comma. Even grammar school children know that. :-)
 
2012-02-19 05:48:15 AM

batcookie: thenumber5: batcookie: thenumber5: going to say this, if i walked in to a class that could stray in to any conversational subject, and there was a 12 year girl and her dad siting in the class

I am dropping the class.

It is all good and fun to say "O she has traveled around the world and is very mature", but anyone who has even taken a college class know at any time a class can get completely off subject and become a Debate on the social and political issues of the day. and quite frankly sticking a child in the classroom is going to make it so that many students don't feel conferrable with expressing there opinions

Sounds like your own personal hang up, dude, not anyone else's. Children should be talked to like they have a modicum of intelligence anyway, whereas you seem to fall into the category of people who consistently talk to them in baby talk, condescend, shield them, and/or feel that they should be "seen and not heard." Those things are not conducive to intellectual development. Frankly the only problem with this is yours, not hers.

Well good to know you dont live in the real world

And you know what, Children should be "seen and not heard" i am sorry to burst your teenage self importance bubble, but your an idiot and have nothing to add to the conversation 99% of time.

"Teenage"? Hahaha not even close, I'm just not a douchebag. From what I see, they have a hell of a lot more to add than you seem to. And it's "don't" and "you're," and you don't capitalize after a comma. Even grammar school children know that. :-)


Grammar School Children, who are taking classes focused on English Grammar
 
2012-02-19 05:54:22 AM

thenumber5: batcookie: thenumber5: batcookie: thenumber5: going to say this, if i walked in to a class that could stray in to any conversational subject, and there was a 12 year girl and her dad siting in the class

I am dropping the class.

It is all good and fun to say "O she has traveled around the world and is very mature", but anyone who has even taken a college class know at any time a class can get completely off subject and become a Debate on the social and political issues of the day. and quite frankly sticking a child in the classroom is going to make it so that many students don't feel conferrable with expressing there opinions

Sounds like your own personal hang up, dude, not anyone else's. Children should be talked to like they have a modicum of intelligence anyway, whereas you seem to fall into the category of people who consistently talk to them in baby talk, condescend, shield them, and/or feel that they should be "seen and not heard." Those things are not conducive to intellectual development. Frankly the only problem with this is yours, not hers.

Well good to know you dont live in the real world

And you know what, Children should be "seen and not heard" i am sorry to burst your teenage self importance bubble, but your an idiot and have nothing to add to the conversation 99% of time.

"Teenage"? Hahaha not even close, I'm just not a douchebag. From what I see, they have a hell of a lot more to add than you seem to. And it's "don't" and "you're," and you don't capitalize after a comma. Even grammar school children know that. :-)

Grammar School Children, who are taking classes focused on English Grammar


Actually you learn that in about 5th grade if not earlier. You drop out after kindergarten, buddy?
 
2012-02-19 08:59:38 AM

rebelyell2006: But then again it is a community college, so it is more of an adult day-care than an actual college.


The people whose lives I saved as an EMT didn't complain that I, and many other paramedics and firefighters, went to that adult day-care.
 
2012-02-19 09:27:06 AM

thenumber5: going to say this, if i walked in to a class that could stray in to any conversational subject, and there was a 12 year girl and her dad siting in the class

I am dropping the class.

It is all good and fun to say "O she has traveled around the world and is very mature", but anyone who has even taken a college class know at any time a class can get completely off subject and become a Debate on the social and political issues of the day. and quite frankly sticking a child in the classroom is going to make it so that many students don't feel conferrable with expressing there opinions


If you're that much of a wuss, then it's part of the job of college to help you to grow the hell up.

It's understandable to maybe look at the kid and her dad uncomfortably before cutting loose with your opinions. It's understandable to feel a bit inhibited at first. But college is not group therapy or an AA meeting, snowflake. Time to stretch beyond yourself.
 
2012-02-19 09:31:34 AM

thenumber5: going to say this, if i walked in to a class that could stray in to any conversational subject, and there was a 12 year girl and her dad siting in the class

I am dropping the class.

It is all good and fun to say "O she has traveled around the world and is very mature", but anyone who has even taken a college class know at any time a class can get completely off subject and become a Debate on the social and political issues of the day. and quite frankly sticking a child in the classroom is going to make it so that many students don't feel conferrable with expressing there opinions


Look, I can overlook a tonne of grammatical and spelling errors, but "Conferrable" doesn't make any sense in this context. WTF?

thenumber5: your an idiot and have nothing to add to the conversation 99% of time.


I'm doubting that you are a fountain of philosophical and political insight.
 
2012-02-19 09:36:37 AM
There are a whole bunch o' farkers who did not pay attention to TFA. She's asking to be admitted into a program for high school students, in which both high school and college classes are taken. It's pretty common, especially for community colleges. For on-level kids, it's usually done in the senior year. That way, the kids graduate HS with some college experience and credits. It's a good gig. Being homeschooled, I don't know if sh'd attend the local hs for that portion of the classes, or just home school them. But she's not asking to metriculate into college at 12.

Also, with the exception of a human sexuality class, there is nothing that would be discussed in an undergrad classroom that I would not discuss with my bright 13 year old.
 
2012-02-19 10:02:10 AM

eggrolls: Once more, for the idiots in the back row:

GETTING INTO COLLEGE IS NOT A GUARANTEED RIGHT. EVER.

As you were.


However not being unfairly discriminated against by a state actor IS. It's called the 14th Amendment, you might want to look it up. The college could not articulate a rational basis for their disparate treatment of the girl, and as such it was discrimination
 
2012-02-19 11:05:15 AM

pedrop357: Trance750: How about let the kids be kids, instead of pushing them to be adults, before their time.

To some kids, that could mean going to college at 12.


While the kids may be intelligent enough, they need to be allowed to mature, before they're tossed into a classroom with people 3x their age
 
2012-02-19 11:08:11 AM

Trance750: While the kids may be intelligent enough, they need to be allowed to mature, before they're tossed into a classroom with people 3x their age


As a current college student who is 3x this child's age, I think I'd struggle to see much difference between the maturity of a 12-year old and the majority of the rest of my class, who are generally only 2x her age.
 
2012-02-19 01:20:57 PM

Pert: Trance750: While the kids may be intelligent enough, they need to be allowed to mature, before they're tossed into a classroom with people 3x their age

As a current college student who is 3x this child's age, I think I'd struggle to see much difference between the maturity of a 12-year old and the majority of the rest of my class, who are generally only 2x her age.


You may have a point

Can't want to see the kid try to pledge a fraternity
 
2012-02-19 01:23:56 PM

Trance750: Pert: Trance750: While the kids may be intelligent enough, they need to be allowed to mature, before they're tossed into a classroom with people 3x their age

As a current college student who is 3x this child's age, I think I'd struggle to see much difference between the maturity of a 12-year old and the majority of the rest of my class, who are generally only 2x her age.

You may have a point

Can't want to see the kid try to pledge a fraternity


notsureifserious...

namegoeshere: There are a whole bunch o' farkers who did not pay attention to TFA. She's asking to be admitted into a program for high school students, in which both high school and college classes are taken. It's pretty common, especially for community colleges. For on-level kids, it's usually done in the senior year. That way, the kids graduate HS with some college experience and credits. It's a good gig. Being homeschooled, I don't know if sh'd attend the local hs for that portion of the classes, or just home school them. But she's not asking to metriculate into college at 12.

Also, with the exception of a human sexuality class, there is nothing that would be discussed in an undergrad classroom that I would not discuss with my bright 13 year old.

 
2012-02-19 01:58:24 PM

Pert: Trance750: While the kids may be intelligent enough, they need to be allowed to mature, before they're tossed into a classroom with people 3x their age

As a current college student who is 3x this child's age, I think I'd struggle to see much difference between the maturity of a 12-year old and the majority of the rest of my class, who are generally only 2x her age.


I always enjoy the adults in the classroom. If there's a pocket of four or five of them in a room full of twenty twenty-year-olds, you are the guys who keep me sane, primarily through the "I can't believe this moron just said that" eye rolling you all provide. It really is great to know that there are still some adults with a sense of responsibility out there.

/who generally don't lie about a late paper
//and are hard workers
///and understand the world they live in
 
2012-02-19 02:16:16 PM
As someone who took Saturday morning enrichment classes at my local university, I'm getting a kick, etc....

/Yes, I was 13
//Sometimes a nerd's gotta nerd, yaknow?
 
2012-02-19 02:26:51 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: I always enjoy the adults in the classroom. If there's a pocket of four or five of them in a room full of twenty twenty-year-olds, you are the guys who keep me sane, primarily through the "I can't believe this moron just said that" eye rolling you all provide. It really is great to know that there are still some adults with a sense of responsibility out there.

/who generally don't lie about a late paper
//and are hard workers
///and understand the world they live in


Cheers - that has been my experience.

I'm also happy to raise my hand and say, "I really don't understand this" or "I may be the only person who doesn't get this but......" whereas quite a few of the younger people seem nervous to show any sign of "ignorance". I often get other students thanking me for asking questions or trying to find other ways of explaining a problem that half the class can't work through because the tutor only has one way of teaching.

I sat in one law lecture where a guy felt it appropriate to raise his hand and explain to everyone that "legally" McDonald's ought to describe their Big Macs as desserts because there is so much sugar in them.....

"That would be under the dessert legislation enacted by parliament in 1976?" seemed the only appropriate response.

Other people would routinely cite tabloid stories as examples of how the law was ridiculous, failing to realise that the Daily Mail is unlikely to provide a fair assessment of the intricacies of European legislation.
 
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