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(Slate)   Liberals shouldn't homeschool their children, because homeschooling is a mistake   (slate.com) divider line 550
    More: Obvious, religious fundamentalism, secular humanists, public sphere, Dana Goldstein, liberals, coordinator, mistakes  
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17801 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2012 at 5:37 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-18 09:50:37 PM

DarthBart: Kazan: homeschooling isolates your kids from experiences that would help them understand other people and develop a sense of community and compassion. it also demonstrates a lack of trust in the education system.

Last year, we were at our Valentine's day party for the homeschool group we belong to. The party was in the middle of the afternoon on Valentine's day (Monday). There were 30+ families there (there's 80-something families on the membership roll). Out in the field, there were many children, ages ranging from 4 to 17, all playing together and having a great time. A guy came up to the parents and asked "What are you all doing? Kids not in school today?". He was told about the party and homeschooling and, I kid you not, the first question out of his mouth was "Homeschooling? What about socialization?".

So, please excuse me while I do this:

[images.icanhascheezburger.com image 400x259]

And you're right, I have no faith in the public school system. When a child (not mine, thankfully, or heads would roll) comes home crying every day because her teacher has called her dumb & stupid, then I have jack point shiat worth of faith or respect. And I find it funny & ironic that most of the people I've seen & heard immediately discount homeschooling don't even have children.


it's nice to be able to schedule vacations without worrying about the public school calendar

the basketball, chess team, and coop class calendar though can make it just as fun to juggle
 
2012-02-18 09:51:38 PM

loonatic112358: sendtodave: I agree with you: Big idiots trying to teach little idiots, Love it!

Think about the movie Deliverance, they were homeschooled, amiright.

Uh, there are companies that offer standardized curriculum.

These guys are a good example.

Bonus: They're set up as charter schools in many states, so tuition is free. Taxpayer funded home school!

Texas has something like that, but you have to log on and keep hours similar to a public school


Are you thinking of TXVA, or another one?

TXVA is a K12 charter school.
 
2012-02-18 09:51:52 PM

Crosshair: I'll just leave this here;

[www.wnd.com image 350x396]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106585


I love the Word spellchecker red lines. Goes well with the fact that it comes from the World Nut Daily.
 
2012-02-18 09:53:24 PM

Crosshair: I'll just leave this here;

[www.wnd.com image 350x396]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106585


I'm assuming the public school scores are what define the mean?
 
2012-02-18 09:53:25 PM
you know, there's all kinds of group activities for homeschoolers, sports too. If a homeschooled kid is maladjusted its because their parents weren't qualified and not because of the homeschooling process itself.

As for the article, if you want to skip out on giving your kids the best you possibly can because of some ideology be my guest. I think I'll give my child the best academic oppurtunities I can though thanks.
 
2012-02-18 09:55:12 PM

chasd00: If a homeschooled kid is maladjusted its because their parents weren't qualified and not because of the homeschooling process itself.


What if a public school kid is maladjusted?
 
2012-02-18 09:58:19 PM

Crosshair: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106585


World Net Daily? And all the reasonable home-school advocates cried out in unison: "you're not helping!"

How did you escape from my ignore list anyhow? Well, welcome back.
 
2012-02-18 09:59:36 PM

rebelyell2006: homeschooled: You might think homeschooling is bad, but that's because a lot of the people that homeschool their kids are doing it for the wrong reasons. They're doing it because they're afraid of their kids being exposed to the "real world" so they shelter them. THAT is what creates a f*cked up kid. Normal parents who want their kids to have a good education and do what's best for them while they're homeschooled by getting them involved in sports and activities and make sure they see their friends regularly.... those kids turn out just fine. You just don't know it, because we won't talk about it much. I personally was homeschooled because my parents were poor, and the public schools I would've gone to were some of the worst in the country, and my parents didn't want that for me. THANK. GOD. I am so glad that they kept me at home.

Up until the start of public schools in the USA and elsewhere, there were few choices outside of church schools, and it was very common for rich, gentry boys to receive their education from tutors hired by the parents (and girls learned sewing from their mothers, etc). The problem was the fact that poor children (and girls) had no choice beyond learning their father's trade or farming. Public schools equalize the situation by allowing the poor and female the opportunity for an education. While homeschooling is fine for those whose educational needs are based on a pedagogy other than the didactic and behavioral, most people are fine with public and private schooling.


The funny thing is, if you are smart enough to homeschool your kids, then you are smart enough to realize that homeschooling will retard their growth in pretty much every area no matter how smart you or they are. So yeah, its not the 18th century anymore, if you have a choice between homeschooling your kids and sending them to school, you should send them to farkin' school. People who homeschool their children by choice should be charged for child abuse.
 
2012-02-18 09:59:40 PM

sendtodave: Mentat: I learned a lot from being bullied. The first lesson I learned was hit the motherfarkers back and they will leave you alone.

Yeah, my mom was militant on the "no fighting" thing. Like Marge Simpson, when I said that other kids were beating me up, she said they weren't very good friends.

Dad went along for the sake of his balls. He apologized later for that.

I grant that probably would have been the same regardless of where I went to school.

The second lesson I learned was that bullying doesn't stop when you become an adult, it just becomes more subtle. Being around other kids, even douchebags, teaches you valuable lessons about group dymanics and social interactions that will serve you well when you go out into the real world.

Right, like i said: I did learn about other people in school.

Other people are dicks.


Our fighting rule (cuz our kids go to public school): if you throw the first punch, you are in trouble with us; if you don't throw the second punch, you are in trouble with us.

In either case, the school's punishment is irrelevant: in cases of self-defense, I don't allow the school to punish my kids. And my kids are not snowflakes and they definitely can behave really badly. And when they do, they must accept the consequences--at home and at school.
 
2012-02-18 10:00:59 PM
Liberals wouldn't even have to worry about this if they just aborted all their babies.
 
2012-02-18 10:02:32 PM

sendtodave: Are you thinking of TXVA, or another one?TXVA is a K12 charter school.


possibly

this is a memory from at least 8 years ago, so no telling how scrambled it is
 
2012-02-18 10:02:58 PM

Cymbal: rebelyell2006: homeschooled: You might think homeschooling is bad, but that's because a lot of the people that homeschool their kids are doing it for the wrong reasons. They're doing it because they're afraid of their kids being exposed to the "real world" so they shelter them. THAT is what creates a f*cked up kid. Normal parents who want their kids to have a good education and do what's best for them while they're homeschooled by getting them involved in sports and activities and make sure they see their friends regularly.... those kids turn out just fine. You just don't know it, because we won't talk about it much. I personally was homeschooled because my parents were poor, and the public schools I would've gone to were some of the worst in the country, and my parents didn't want that for me. THANK. GOD. I am so glad that they kept me at home.

Up until the start of public schools in the USA and elsewhere, there were few choices outside of church schools, and it was very common for rich, gentry boys to receive their education from tutors hired by the parents (and girls learned sewing from their mothers, etc). The problem was the fact that poor children (and girls) had no choice beyond learning their father's trade or farming. Public schools equalize the situation by allowing the poor and female the opportunity for an education. While homeschooling is fine for those whose educational needs are based on a pedagogy other than the didactic and behavioral, most people are fine with public and private schooling.

The funny thing is, if you are smart enough to homeschool your kids, then you are smart enough to realize that homeschooling will retard their growth in pretty much every area no matter how smart you or they are. So yeah, its not the 18th century anymore, if you have a choice between homeschooling your kids and sending them to school, you should send them to farkin' school. People who homeschool their children by choice should be charged for child abuse.


Something I've learned while interacting with museum directors is the phrase "it depends". For some homeschooling is the best option, for others it is not since public schools use specific methods of education that do not work for everybody. In just about everything there is no precise right or wrong, but some value in the middle. Except for religion, which is just ridiculous superstition.
 
2012-02-18 10:05:08 PM

Cymbal: The funny thing is, if you are smart enough to homeschool your kids, then you are smart enough to realize that homeschooling will retard their growth in pretty much every area no matter how smart you or they are. So yeah, its not the 18th century anymore, if you have a choice between homeschooling your kids and sending them to school, you should send them to farkin' school. People who homeschool their children by choice should be charged for child abuse.


and you have data to back this up?

or is this stating bullshiat as facts?
 
2012-02-18 10:05:23 PM
With homeschooling, you get out exactly what the teacher puts in. I graduated at 16, got my associates degree at 18, and will have my BS in may (3 years later). I have seen other students come out of homeschooling socially maladjusted and scholastically behind, but that generalization cannot be applied to everyone.

Also:
trolledbot.net
 
2012-02-18 10:09:49 PM

homeschooled: [fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net image 604x430]

I'M TIRED OF ALL THE EMAIL NOTIFICATION SAYING YOU MOTHER F*CKERS ARE MENTIONING ME IN HERE SO I CAME TO SPEAK MY MIND.

As someone that was homeschooled, along with my brother and sister, I find it hilarious that all of you people are making these judgments because you've met some socially awkward homeschoolers and are all of the sudden experts. Here's what you don't realize.....you've also met a lot of normal homeschooled kids. You just don't know it, because those of us that are normal usually don't tell people we were homeschooled, because the second you tell someone you were homeschooled they're all ZOMG ARE YOUR PARENTS CRAZY OMG I BET THAT WAS SO WEIRD and treat you differently. And make obnoxious jokes.

Homeschooling, if done correctly, involves socialization. I had a co-op group with other families that homeschooled their kids. I did my homework every day like normal kids.... but also (on a weekly basis) went horseback riding, took pottery classes, played organized sports every season, took swimming lessons and gymnastics, went skiing in the winters every week, went on educational field trips........ we even put on plays sometimes. It was fun. I had a very good experience homeschooling my kids. And, contrary to what most people think, homeschooling involves the parents very little. I taught myself almost everything. Every text book teaches you how to do stuff very well. All you had to do is read it. When I'd get stuck, my mom would help me. You don't need a teaching degree to homeschool your kids.

You might think homeschooling is bad, but that's because a lot of the people that homeschool their kids are doing it for the wrong reasons. They're doing it because they're afraid of their kids being exposed to the "real world" so they shelter them. THAT is what creates a f*cked up kid. Normal parents who want their kids to have a good education and do what's best for them while they're homeschooled by getting them i ...




First, WAAAAY too much information.

Second, I'm smarter than every home schooled kid who ever lived.
 
2012-02-18 10:11:03 PM

Henslow: Some of my wife's comments when she read this article are pasted below. Her degree is in secondary education with a double major in English and math.

...The arguments about social diversity do not apply, and the argument about putting every kid in the school system to improve them is a bit silly. In our town, we walk around frequently and talk to many different people. We are known by most of the local business owners and many citizens because of our involvement in the community. When we go to the library, we converse with the librarians and also quite a few of the patrons, because we have taken the time to get to know so many people. My children, have a better understanding of diversity and community involvement because they are not in a school all day long with children of their exact age and neighborhood. School is not the only place to influence people. Taking something that is broken or on its way to being broken and embracing it and hoping it fixes itself is a fool's hope. It is moronic to ask parents to sacrifice their own children for the sake of other kids who are not getting the attention at home. Our kids play with other kids that are not getting attention at home, but they don't need to spend seven hours a day with them.


I want to subscribe to her newsletter!!
 
2012-02-18 10:13:05 PM

JRoo: By 17 I was sleeping around, at 21 I was using weed, alcohol, LSD, mushrooms, cough syrup, anything I could get my hands on.


Did your cough ever get better?

I hope you learned not to blame others for your cough and you eventually grew up
 
2012-02-18 10:13:45 PM

PsiChick: Thank you, that is sound advice, Nels. I'll have to keep it in mind while talking to you two.


Mocking adherence to a fringe and obviously made up religion might make one an asshole, but not insane.
 
2012-02-18 10:14:49 PM
As usual the solution is a moderate combination of the two extremes. Public schools followed by homework done in the presence of a parent and scheduled group learning experiences. Just be involved in the process, everyday, so you can spot the changes.
 
2012-02-18 10:22:43 PM

Bonzo_1116: DarthBart: Kazan: homeschooling isolates your kids from experiences that would help them understand other people and develop a sense of community and compassion. it also demonstrates a lack of trust in the education system.

Last year, we were at our Valentine's day party for the homeschool group we belong to. The party was in the middle of the afternoon on Valentine's day (Monday). There were 30+ families there (there's 80-something families on the membership roll). Out in the field, there were many children, ages ranging from 4 to 17, all playing together and having a great time. A guy came up to the parents and asked "What are you all doing? Kids not in school today?". He was told about the party and homeschooling and, I kid you not, the first question out of his mouth was "Homeschooling? What about socialization?".

So, please excuse me while I do this:

[images.icanhascheezburger.com image 400x259]

And you're right, I have no faith in the public school system. When a child (not mine, thankfully, or heads would roll) comes home crying every day because her teacher has called her dumb & stupid, then I have jack point shiat worth of faith or respect. And I find it funny & ironic that most of the people I've seen & heard immediately discount homeschooling don't even have children.

How often does your homeschooling group have big get-togethers? It seems like having a network of homeschoolers is the best of both worlds. The kids get the socialization, you can get a handle on how the kids are doing compared to others, you can get help and tips from other teachers/parents..but you're flexible on what you do from day-to-day to tailor it to what your kid can manage.

I'd think the things the kids would lose out a little on is the concept of school pride (useful for learning about how really large groups of otherwise unrelated people form social bonds), team sports, laboratory facilities, and most importantly a sense of yourself separate from your family. If the homeschool network is big enough and used often enough, I'd think the kids could get the benefits a school(public or private) can offer.


In Texas, homeschoolers can opt to enroll their kids in the public school athletics and band programs (or any UIL program I would guess.) I don't know that many do, but it is there for gap coverage, so to speak.
 
2012-02-18 10:27:53 PM
I have serious things to say about homeschooling these days. Which is exactly why I'm going to ignore everything in this thread and pretend someone hasn't already posted this:

xxyr.com
 
2012-02-18 10:31:24 PM

Popo Bawa: I live next door the to 30 year old product of homeschooling by an uber liberal.
What a mess.
Just as bad as if she'd been homeschooled by an uber fundie.
No understanding at all of basic social norms.
Cringe worthy comments constantly fly right out of her mouth as if there's no filter at all.
Consequently, no one wants to be withing 50 ft. of her for more than 30 seconds.
Missed all those crucial young years learning how to socialize with people.
Honestly, I don't think you ever get those back.

IMO, homeschooling does nothing but create social retards.


One of the college courses I'm taking now (geology) has a homeschooled young woman in it. So far this semester she has come close to being thrown out of class twice because she has no mental filters. Anything that forms in the cavernous space that is her mind is instantly released into the wild, wanted or not, often right in the middle of a lecture. The one thing she seems not to have learned yet (and she's a senior) is that professors can fail you if they do not like you.

The one day she's been absent this spring is the one day the class was able to conduct itself in an orderly manner without her yammering on and on, arguing with the professor over insignificant crap and wasting valuable class time, and generally being a pain in the ass.
We found ourselves (including the professor) wishing she would never come back... out loud... and not feeling bad about it at all.

She's never held a job (wonder why) and is going to catch hell in the real world, where knowing when to STFU is a lot more important than knowing when to speak.
 
2012-02-18 10:36:00 PM

rewind2846: Popo Bawa: I live next door the to 30 year old product of homeschooling by an uber liberal.
What a mess.
Just as bad as if she'd been homeschooled by an uber fundie.
No understanding at all of basic social norms.
Cringe worthy comments constantly fly right out of her mouth as if there's no filter at all.
Consequently, no one wants to be withing 50 ft. of her for more than 30 seconds.
Missed all those crucial young years learning how to socialize with people.
Honestly, I don't think you ever get those back.

IMO, homeschooling does nothing but create social retards.

One of the college courses I'm taking now (geology) has a homeschooled young woman in it. So far this semester she has come close to being thrown out of class twice because she has no mental filters. Anything that forms in the cavernous space that is her mind is instantly released into the wild, wanted or not, often right in the middle of a lecture. The one thing she seems not to have learned yet (and she's a senior) is that professors can fail you if they do not like you.

The one day she's been absent this spring is the one day the class was able to conduct itself in an orderly manner without her yammering on and on, arguing with the professor over insignificant crap and wasting valuable class time, and generally being a pain in the ass.
We found ourselves (including the professor) wishing she would never come back... out loud... and not feeling bad about it at all.

She's never held a job (wonder why) and is going to catch hell in the real world, where knowing when to STFU is a lot more important than knowing when to speak.


Causation and correlation. You can shut up now.
 
2012-02-18 10:36:40 PM

orbister: ansius: Jesus F Christ on a crutch, can't you dim wits just let your kids play with other kids, explore the world, find things out for themselves without you being so concerned that they're learning things differently to what you learned, differently to how you learned it.

The advantages of homeschooling in a nutshell. Thank you.


It's also the major disadvantage especially when undertaken by a undereducated parent.
 
2012-02-18 10:39:09 PM

loonatic112358: Cymbal: The funny thing is, if you are smart enough to homeschool your kids, then you are smart enough to realize that homeschooling will retard their growth in pretty much every area no matter how smart you or they are. So yeah, its not the 18th century anymore, if you have a choice between homeschooling your kids and sending them to school, you should send them to farkin' school. People who homeschool their children by choice should be charged for child abuse.

and you have data to back this up?

or is this stating bullshiat as facts?


Like a homeschooler would know the difference between bullshiat and facts. Just because your Mom thinks you are a well adjusted member of society, does not make it so.
 
2012-02-18 10:42:32 PM
I homeschooled my children for three years and now they are in public school...so I've been on both sides.

I don't understand why homeschooling parents think that all kids at public school do is sit around doing worksheets and getting bullied. My kids do all kinds of cool and interactive things. In a classroom they break into groups based on where they are academically so that the teachers can help the kids on the level they need.

My kids get plenty of experience in the real world even though they are in school, and we still get to go on field trips and special outings, we still do mundane things that homeschoolers do like grocery shopping and going to the library. They interact with other adults and kids of all ages. Being in public school doesn't stop that. It seems like some homeschooling parents had a horrible time in school and are projecting that onto their kids.

As an aside, my oldest was bullied in our homeschool group, so homeschooling doesn't always stop kids from being dicks.
 
2012-02-18 10:43:36 PM
Alright, my folks decided to home educate me when I was in middle school/high school after I watched a kid throw another kid through a plate glass window and nearly bleed to death after he said something about his mama. Also, the drugs and low quality education in general were of concern. My folks are bible thumping evangelicals, but at least in these regards they were looking out for my best interests. Ironically, they raised a self motivated and driven fire breathing atheist with a complete disdain for traditional authority to their chagrin, heh.

I finished my high school course work at 16 and stomped the SATs including 6 subject tests to convince liberal elitist higher academic ass clowns that I wasn't one of "those people" as the admission's officers told me. I went to the University of Virginia and majored in Economics. I then worked in DC while I got my Masters in Healthcare Policy and Management. Currently, I am relocating to Boston to do government consulting with other state government's to implement health insurance market reforms. I am also planning on getting a JD in Antitrust and Competition Law in the near future. Not exactly an awkward slouch drooling into a cup either...

Not all parents involved in homeschooling are backward ass evangelicals indoctrinating their children or worthless hippies doing "unschooling". There are a wide variety of reasons to get involved ranging from ex-Stanford professor goat farmers raising a family of geniuses to families with special needs children. It certainly is not for everyone, but if you think the public school system is generally meeting many kid's need well now and call home education "child abuse"...you are likely an airhead who would rather have your crotchspawn suffer through the equality of a mutually shared poor education for your own misplaced political correctness and a completely unhinged "socialization" program.

I am against religious exemption loopholes. People should be monitored, use approved curriculum, and be required do standard academic testing as I did.

i399.photobucket.com
 
2012-02-18 10:45:22 PM

Cymbal: Like a homeschooler would know the difference between bullshiat and facts. Just because your Mom thinks you are a well adjusted member of society, does not make it so.


yes, lovely ignorant accusation you little ogre

try again, next attempt you could be close to your target
 
2012-02-18 10:46:23 PM

BolloxReader: pudding7: I'm a Liberal, but for the life of me I can't think of which of my values homeschooling would violate. Is there a newsletter for Progressives that I failed to sign up for when I got my Liberal membership card? Ideally, one that would tell me what my values should be so that I would know how violated I should feel when people homeschool their kids?

I'm a Green, and there's nothing sacred about our public education system. France pioneered the concept as a tool of cultural hegemony back in its imperialistic days. In the US the current system was put in place to indoctrinate children into the ways of the factory with lines, established bathroom breaks, etc. Some education majors at my alma mater insisted that scholastic achievement was less important than ensuring all students were infused with an American culture and that all vestiges of other value systems and perspectives were stripped from them. As an applied anthropology major I was apalled. But as I quickly learned, education and business schools live in their own realities.

Public education should be available. But our current system is a bad acid trip version of what it should be.


I sub at a local school.

One word: coloring

in twelfth grade.
 
2012-02-18 10:46:54 PM

Cymbal: People who homeschool their children by choice should be charged for child abuse.


The State should be all-powerful in every area of an individual's life. Got it.

Has anybody else noticed how people of, ah, a certain political tendency who normally decry an excessive emphasis on crime and punishment are at the same time very keen on those same things when it suits their own prejudices? Rob and kill an old lady and you should be rehabilitated, since you are merely a product of your childhood environment; deal drugs that result in injury and death to others, and you should be released as having perpetrated a "victimless crime"; but dare to homeschool your children (or to commit some other sin against "progressive" values, such as expressing a politically incorrect opinion) and you deserve to have the book thrown at you with no mercy. The authoritarian tendencies of the Left never remain hidden for very long.
 
2012-02-18 10:49:04 PM

ginandbacon: "Low-income kids earn higher test scores when they attend school alongside middle-class kids, while the test scores of privileged children are impervious to the influence of less-privileged peers."

The author is making the argument, rather convincingly, that privileged students suffer no harm by being educated with their less privileged peers. In fact, they come out better off in terms of being socially adept in diverse groups and having a deeper commitment to the civic institutions, including education, that make our country great.


Let me call B.S. on the part about test scores for low income kids. The studies done at the Wake County school system (wcpss.net see the studies) showed that low income children that were bussed to schools for diversity performed WORSE in school across all racial groups. There are probably many reasons for this including the long bus rides, failure to fit in with higher income peers (leading to social isolation), and the long distances reduced already limited parental involvement. This also translated into higher drop out rates in high school.

While people can argue the "social benefits" of bussing for diversity; the academic case is closed. All the actual statistics show that bussing for diversity reduces academic performance for the students that are bussed. Statements made from educators to the contrary are pie-in-the-sky, feel-good sentiments that do not hold up to the hard facts.
 
2012-02-18 10:52:14 PM

sendtodave: TheRameres: I can see homeschooling your kids if you're truly qualified to give your children a better education than a private or public school.

Again, there are companies that can provide parents with a standardized curriculum and assistance. Online. Sometimes, for free. This isn't the olden days where the parent needs to source all their own material.

The parents just need to "be qualified" enough to make sure lil Johnny does his work and takes the tests.


What about guidance in the material, and answering questions? If 'lil Johnny's like most kids, then hey probably will need some interaction with a mentor (i.e., teacher) in subjects that require an actual understanding and application of theory - math for example.

I consider myself a fairly intuitive person, but for the life of me I can't imagine trying to learn trigonometry for the first time off the Internet.
 
2012-02-18 10:56:47 PM

TheRameres: sendtodave: TheRameres: I can see homeschooling your kids if you're truly qualified to give your children a better education than a private or public school.

Again, there are companies that can provide parents with a standardized curriculum and assistance. Online. Sometimes, for free. This isn't the olden days where the parent needs to source all their own material.

The parents just need to "be qualified" enough to make sure lil Johnny does his work and takes the tests.

What about guidance in the material, and answering questions? If 'lil Johnny's like most kids, then hey probably will need some interaction with a mentor (i.e., teacher) in subjects that require an actual understanding and application of theory - math for example.

I consider myself a fairly intuitive person, but for the life of me I can't imagine trying to learn trigonometry for the first time off the Internet.


Or maybe one of the subjects he needs a mentor for is English.

/just a thought
 
2012-02-18 10:58:48 PM

sseye:

Causation and correlation. You can shut up now.


I cited an example from my own personal experience. So now (filters off) you can go piss up a rope (filters on).

You want your kids to be social retards, by all means home school them. Children need other children who are not in their families and not living in the same house with them to realize what works and what doesn't in the real world. Best way to teach them that social actions have consequences is to put them with a bunch of people they don't know, and let them figure it out. Even private schooling is better than homeschooling due to these interactive factors, despite the fact that the child is within a closed and self-selecting group, unlike where they will spend the rest of their lives.

Homeschooling, IMO, is mental incest.
 
2012-02-18 11:00:11 PM
Here's what I've learned from the conversation. We know that homeschoolers score roughly 37 PERCENTILE points higher on standardized tests than public school kids. According to Fark, most homeschooled kids are being homeschooled because their parents are religious nuts. Conclusion=> Religious nuts are either really awesome teachers, they are genetically superior and naturally more intelligent than the rest of us or public schools suck by such epic amounts that the people that think the world is 6000 years old are running in circles around them. Recommended courses of action: either hire religious nuts to teach, bow down to our new religious overlords or flee like rats from a sinking ship from the public school system.
 
2012-02-18 11:03:27 PM

alltandubh: Cymbal: People who homeschool their children by choice should be charged for child abuse.

The State should be all-powerful in every area of an individual's life. Got it.

Has anybody else noticed how people of, ah, a certain political tendency who normally decry an excessive emphasis on crime and punishment are at the same time very keen on those same things when it suits their own prejudices? Rob and kill an old lady and you should be rehabilitated, since you are merely a product of your childhood environment; deal drugs that result in injury and death to others, and you should be released as having perpetrated a "victimless crime"; but dare to homeschool your children (or to commit some other sin against "progressive" values, such as expressing a politically incorrect opinion) and you deserve to have the book thrown at you with no mercy. The authoritarian tendencies of the Left never remain hidden for very long.


Yeah that's right. There is nothing wrong with being authoritarian when you are right. At least us lefties don't try to control a woman's uterus, or tell you who you can or cannot marry because Jesus. Either one of those is a much better example of authoritarianism.
 
2012-02-18 11:04:06 PM

rewind2846: sseye:

Homeschooling, IMO, is mental incest.


i399.photobucket.com


WTF...
 
2012-02-18 11:05:53 PM

senoy: Here's what I've learned from the conversation. We know that homeschoolers score roughly 37 PERCENTILE points higher on standardized tests than public school kids. According to Fark, most homeschooled kids are being homeschooled because their parents are religious nuts. Conclusion=> Religious nuts are either really awesome teachers, they are genetically superior and naturally more intelligent than the rest of us or public schools suck by such epic amounts that the people that think the world is 6000 years old are running in circles around them. Recommended courses of action: either hire religious nuts to teach, bow down to our new religious overlords or flee like rats from a sinking ship from the public school system.


And if standardized test scores were somehow a litmus test towards life success that would be somewhat convincing.
 
2012-02-18 11:06:24 PM

TheRameres: I consider myself a fairly intuitive person, but for the life of me I can't imagine trying to learn trigonometry for the first time off the Internet.


F*ck's sake, man, I taught myself trigonometry when I was a teenager using a high school math textbook (we didn't have time to do that particular subject in class) because I was bored. It wasn't that difficult, and I'm not even that good at math. Any adult of reasonable intelligence can get a grasp of most subjects if he is willing to take the time to lay the intellectual foundations beforehand, especially if these same subjects are routinely taught to high- schoolers. The whole idea that there is an arcane body of knowledge out there accessible only to those who have been initiated into the mysteries of teachers' college is a laughable superstition.
 
2012-02-18 11:13:03 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Kazan: homeschooling isolates your kids from experiences that would help them understand other people and develop a sense of community and compassion.

My significant other is a living disagreement of this statement.


And my Cousin's kids are in total agreement of that statement.
/creationists.
//Get offended if you say "good luck"
/// they only see white people.
 
2012-02-18 11:13:23 PM

TheRameres: sendtodave: TheRameres: I can see homeschooling your kids if you're truly qualified to give your children a better education than a private or public school.

Again, there are companies that can provide parents with a standardized curriculum and assistance. Online. Sometimes, for free. This isn't the olden days where the parent needs to source all their own material.

The parents just need to "be qualified" enough to make sure lil Johnny does his work and takes the tests.

What about guidance in the material, and answering questions? If 'lil Johnny's like most kids, then hey probably will need some interaction with a mentor (i.e., teacher) in subjects that require an actual understanding and application of theory - math for example.

I consider myself a fairly intuitive person, but for the life of me I can't imagine trying to learn trigonometry for the first time off the Internet.


They provide "teachers," or whatever they call them to assist the parents. Multiple ones for high school (by that point it's more like online courses in college; the parent isn't expected to teach higher level maths or sciences, etc.).
 
2012-02-18 11:14:07 PM

KrispyKritter: Popo Bawa: I live next door the to 30 year old product of homeschooling by an uber liberal.
What a mess.
Just as bad as if she'd been homeschooled by an uber fundie.
No understanding at all of basic social norms.
Cringe worthy comments constantly fly right out of her mouth as if there's no filter at all.
Consequently, no one wants to be withing 50 ft. of her for more than 30 seconds.
Missed all those crucial young years learning how to socialize with people.
Honestly, I don't think you ever get those back.

IMO, homeschooling does nothing but create social retards.

and you're a deep thinker, passing judgement on millions based on your knowing one. please skip cock punch and go right to vasectomy.


Actually I know a group of homeschoolers who are uber fundies through church.
They are in fact raising....horrific social retards.

My above example is an example of an uber liberal being homeschooled and how they differ not at all from all the fundie homeschoolers.

Scary, uncomfortable social retards.
Missing those years of socialization while your brain is forming at a young age is a mistake.
We are by nature social creatures. Denying a child the chance to socialize with others throughout the day as they grow creates socially retarded individuals.
And scheduling limited "play dates" with other social retards doesn't seem to help.
 
2012-02-18 11:15:32 PM

Amagi: rewind2846: sseye:

Homeschooling, IMO, is mental incest.

[i399.photobucket.com image 600x436]

WTF...


Fail? Hardly.
The best way to learn about the world is to get out in it. The way that children do this is to leave home and interact with other children in social settings without the immediate guidance of their parents or guardians. Expand their mental gene pool. "Learn by doing", as it were. This is why we have so many damn helicopter parents now, including some who badger my professors to get their 20-year-old "child's" homework when all the student has to do is look on the school's website for it, posted regularly.

A diversity of ideas and experiences from people unrelated to you by blood or by ideology is important for a child's mental growth and development, be it in a public or a private school. Simply giving them more of what they already get at home, however well intentioned, is the fail.
 
2012-02-18 11:15:45 PM

lilplatinum: senoy: Here's what I've learned from the conversation. We know that homeschoolers score roughly 37 PERCENTILE points higher on standardized tests than public school kids. According to Fark, most homeschooled kids are being homeschooled because their parents are religious nuts. Conclusion=> Religious nuts are either really awesome teachers, they are genetically superior and naturally more intelligent than the rest of us or public schools suck by such epic amounts that the people that think the world is 6000 years old are running in circles around them. Recommended courses of action: either hire religious nuts to teach, bow down to our new religious overlords or flee like rats from a sinking ship from the public school system.

And if standardized test scores were somehow a litmus test towards life success that would be somewhat convincing.

Success is a strange word, I'm not sure what it means. I do think though that you'll find that those scoring 1300 on the SAT-MV (roughly 87th percentile) graduate college at much higher rates than those scoring 1000 on the SAT( roughly 50th percentile) I'm not sure that a college degree is a particular guarantor of "success", but I think many would consider it a desirable outcome.
 
2012-02-18 11:16:05 PM

penthesilea: Kazan: penthesilea: Normally I'd drag out decades of studies and current stats. I'd post graphs & pie charts.

oh yeah? let's see this data. i presume you're trying to claim that home schooling is superior.

Nope.
Not today. Today I'm going to buy my kid new hiking boots and take a trip to Costco. I shouldn't let myself turn into the homeschool version of Bevets.


When did Costco start offering hiking trips?
 
2012-02-18 11:17:30 PM

pudding7: I'm a Liberal, but for the life of me I can't think of which of my values homeschooling would violate. Is there a newsletter for Progressives that I failed to sign up for when I got my Liberal membership card? Ideally, one that would tell me what my values should be so that I would know how violated I should feel when people homeschool their kids?


The value of enriching teachers unions.
 
2012-02-18 11:17:30 PM

senoy: standardized tests


Are you sure that's what you want to use as your measuring stick?

alltandubh: The whole idea that there is an arcane body of knowledge out there accessible only to those who have been initiated into the mysteries of teachers' college is a laughable superstition.something I just made up


ftfy

People enter into and complete courses of post-secondary study in order to become specialists in different fields. Why do they do this? Because we as a species have discovered that the University system is the best way of producing such academic experts.

The assumption that "any adult of reasonable intelligence" can just teach themselves whatever they want to learn and be done with it is totally subjective, self-congratulatory, and bordering on anti-intellectual.
 
2012-02-18 11:17:46 PM

Cymbal: There is nothing wrong with being authoritarian when you are right.


t1.gstatic.com

...

t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-02-18 11:19:41 PM

senoy: Here's what I've learned from the conversation. We know that homeschoolers score roughly 37 PERCENTILE points higher on standardized tests than public school kids. According to Fark, most homeschooled kids are being homeschooled because their parents are religious nuts. Conclusion=> Religious nuts are either really awesome teachers, they are genetically superior and naturally more intelligent than the rest of us or public schools suck by such epic amounts that the people that think the world is 6000 years old are running in circles around them. Recommended courses of action: either hire religious nuts to teach, bow down to our new religious overlords or flee like rats from a sinking ship from the public school system.


I don't know about other states, but in North Carolina the majority of parents that I have met who home school their children are college educated and not religious.

Many of the rural counties in our state have very bad public schools that are underfunded. Only the poor children in these counties go to public schools. The middle class and better families typically send their children to private Christian schools that typically do well educating the children but also provide religious indoctrination.

Where does this leave middle class families that want to avoid the religion angle; their only option is home-schooling. Usually one of the parents (many times the mother) stays home to provide the schooling, and most of these children who are home-schooled greatly outperform the children in the public schools.

The image that home-schooled children are home-schooled because their parents are religious nuts does not hold very true in our state (I am sure there are some) despite being in the "bible belt". Most of religious nut families have plenty of private Christian school options in their county, and I am sure that at least one of these schools will be sufficiently nutty enough for any level of religious "extremism".
 
2012-02-18 11:21:37 PM

rewind2846: Amagi: rewind2846: sseye:

Homeschooling, IMO, is mental incest.

[i399.photobucket.com image 600x436]

WTF...

Fail? Hardly.
The best way to learn about the world is to get out in it. The way that children do this is to leave home and interact with other children in social settings without the immediate guidance of their parents or guardians. Expand their mental gene pool. "Learn by doing", as it were. This is why we have so many damn helicopter parents now, including some who badger my professors to get their 20-year-old "child's" homework when all the student has to do is look on the school's website for it, posted regularly.

A diversity of ideas and experiences from people unrelated to you by blood or by ideology is important for a child's mental growth and development, be it in a public or a private school. Simply giving them more of what they already get at home, however well intentioned, is the fail.


And there's the problem right there. Is there a diversity of ideas in your school?

I volunteer to help teach physics events in the high schools in our district. I've never seen such a vacuum of ideas like the modern public school system. As an adult, it's palpable and somewhat suffocating. I can't imagine what it must be like for teenagers.
 
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