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(Slate)   Liberals shouldn't homeschool their children, because homeschooling is a mistake   (slate.com) divider line 550
    More: Obvious, religious fundamentalism, secular humanists, public sphere, Dana Goldstein, liberals, coordinator, mistakes  
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17806 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2012 at 5:37 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-18 07:40:29 PM  

Lsherm: Could such a go-it-alone ideology ever be truly progressive-by which I mean, does homeschooling serve the interests not just of those who are doing it, but of society as a whole?

Well, it shouldn't shock anyone that an American liberal believes parents should forgo what is best for their children in order to best serve "the collective".

.
.
Done in ONE!
 
2012-02-18 07:40:42 PM  
enough*
 
2012-02-18 07:41:16 PM  

No Such Agency: quickdraw:
If you want to prepare your child to be a cubicle drone public schooling is ideal. If you want them to learn critical thinking and collaboration in a peer environment then you have to get them out of their tidy rows of desks and into the real world.

WTF? I work with a lot of bright and talented scientists, almost all of whom attended public schools. Imagine that. Some are brighter than others, some are assholes, but none are "cubicle drones". Of course I live in Canada, land of a functional social compact.

It's complete bullshiat that the people who whine the loudest about how bad public schools are have the least interest in fixing them, but instead want to abandon ship because hey, THEY can spare the time and $$ to homeschool.


The problem is my kind are in a minority. Why try to fix when everyone else wants it the same with a better stadium?
 
2012-02-18 07:41:53 PM  
Those of you against home schooling, what are your thoughts on private schools? Religious schools? Yeshivas?
 
2012-02-18 07:42:56 PM  

sendtodave: Other people are dicks.


This is the only thing that should be written on the internet.
 
2012-02-18 07:43:04 PM  

DavidVincent: Those of you against home schooling, what are your thoughts on private schools? Religious schools? Yeshivas?


Nothing wrong with private non-church schools.
 
2012-02-18 07:43:41 PM  
I've met more than 50 homeschooled kids. Not one of them was able to function in society at a high level. NOT ONE. Anecdote? Yes, but a powerful one.
 
2012-02-18 07:43:56 PM  

DarthBart: When do you have time to supplement the education? Your kid is up at 6am to catch the bus, school from 8 to 3, home at 4, homework till 6, dinner, shower/bath, bed at 8pm. And it is damn unlikely that you'll get a public schooled kid to "learn" on the weekend.
"Mooooom, I'm not at school! I don't want to learn!".


2 hours to do your homework? Well at that point the kid might not be head fry cook one way or another. There are ways to guide your children's education without taking it over completely yourself.

While I'm not discounting your experiences as having suck-tastic homeschool teachers, you're trying to draw a full graph and data set using a single point.

Hey, my parents were great and I am fairly autodidactic so home school itself was not educationally bad, hell back in middle school I ended up running a 4 node BBS that brought in enough subscriber money to maintain all the hardware and lines - which was impressive for a 12 year old. But despite the value of that I was fairly socially awkward once I went back into public school for high school. Socialization's value cannot be understated and no matter how many home school gettogethers you arrange as a kid, training them to function with peers away from watchful eyes of parents is a fairly important skill to talk.

I always mock German rules and regulations but I wholeheartedly agree with their ban on homeschooling.
 
2012-02-18 07:45:12 PM  

sendtodave: Because if it's one thing kids need, it's regular daily peer supervision and discomfort!

For some reason it seems the argument keeps coming back to "the world sucks, so school should, too."


What is your point? The general purpose of school is to prepare kids to function in the world, through education and socialization. Home schooling can serve half of this goal... and trying to be unrealistically optimistic about reality is not going to change that fact.
 
2012-02-18 07:45:15 PM  

rebelyell2006: And for every example of a functioning home-school education, you have three or four examples of parents who don't want their children to learn about evil science.


And that wouldn't change even if the kid went to public school. They'd just go home and have their parents flip out with they told them about the cool "evolution" thing they learned in school. And then the parents would try to change the public school curriculum.

Again, if the goal is to keep kids away from their parent's beliefs, the logical conclusion is to simply take away the kids.
 
2012-02-18 07:45:24 PM  

culebra: You don't get to misrepresent my arguments and then refute the altered version.


That's why I took the care to quote you directly and look at what you actually wrote.

The giveaway of what? I've been nothing but up front about the fact that I believe home-schooling can work, though it is difficult. Stop misrepresenting my arguments.

The giveaway of poor logic and sloppy thinking. X can never work because sometimes X doesn't work is not a good argument.

orbister: Secondly, that word "often". How often is often? Nine out of ten? One out of ten? Whatever you meant, what evidence do you have for it?

Now you're just arguing semantics.


No, I am asking you to support an assertion you made. Your argument depends crucially on that word, so it's reasonable to ask you to explain it and give some evidence. How would you feel if you went to see a doctor who said "These things often clear up on their own. What do you mean, how often is often? That's just arguing semantics"

I never stated that they have no experience, merely that home-school curriculum is often at odds with them.

And there's that word "often" again. Can you quantify it or justify it this time, or is it just another bit of hand waving?

You seem rather emotionally invested in the matter to be arguing so fervently and dishonestly against someone who doesn't have a problem with home-schooling, but does understand the compromises one must make when they remove their child from the public education system..

All I am asking you to do is provide some evidence for your assertions, and pointing out some rather glaring gaps in your arguments. I myself don't have a problem with schooling, but do understand the compromises one must make when you put your child into the school system.
 
2012-02-18 07:47:09 PM  

DavidVincent: Kazan: homeschooling isolates your kids from experiences that would help them understand other people and develop a sense of community and compassion.

[i52.tinypic.com image 345x333]


I bet you have the biggest collection of interracial gay porn on the planet. Lots of pictures of strapping white guys getting pounded in the ass by monster-cocked black guys.
 
2012-02-18 07:47:19 PM  

rebelyell2006: DavidVincent: Those of you against home schooling, what are your thoughts on private schools? Religious schools? Yeshivas?

Nothing wrong with private non-church schools.


So, actually, religion is the real problem. We should just get rid of it!
 
2012-02-18 07:47:23 PM  

Nels: Keeping idiots like you (who think the electrical impulses in your brain that are the substance of your thoughts are possible of possible of penetrating a case of bone and "reading" another person psychically) from being exposed to the majority of society during their critical developmental phases is critical to slowing our decent into cultural hell. I mean--we're going to well, but we don't have to ride down a zip-line there in a hand basket.


Indeed. Keeping children in a group of thirty other kids of the same age is no way to expose them to the majority of society.
 
2012-02-18 07:48:03 PM  

rebelyell2006: Nancy Grace's Billowing Face Vents: Home schooling is a way for parents to put more into their children... and regular schooling is letting others do it for you.

What is all the fuss?

The fuss comes about because most parents know nothing about providing an education, and the basis for their homeschooling comes about because the parents are scared of science because their priests told them science is evil.


I think their lack of know-how in providing an education may be somewhat ameliorated by helping them avoid becoming the 'spamified homogenons' that public education petri dishes we call schools.

It's the attention that matters. Everyone grows up to make their own minds up o things in the end.
 
2012-02-18 07:48:40 PM  
How are homeschooled kids supposed to find hookups for sex and illegal drugs?
 
2012-02-18 07:49:00 PM  

orbister: but do understand the compromises one must make when you put your child into the school system.


Yeah, exposing your children to opposing viewpoints is a farking biatch.
 
2012-02-18 07:49:33 PM  

lilplatinum:
What is your point? The general purpose of school is to prepare kids to function in the world, through education and socialization. Home schooling can serve half of this goal...


No, it can do the education side as well, as long as the parents put a little effort into it.
 
2012-02-18 07:49:49 PM  

deanayer: Liberals by definition would make terrible home schoolers. Assuming their children avoided being aborted they would then be denied the indoctrination and spoon feeding of of rote liberal pablum and nonsense that you can only get in a liberal big government education factory. On the off chance a liberal does home school they will invariably fill their kids head with so many ideas designed to make them reliant on others they will produce a social cripple and tomorrows entitlement pariah without ever letting them meet their like-minded future "Occupy whatever" members. Who will then lead them around by the nose? How will they learn their PC catechism? Leave home schooling to conservatives so they can produce a generation of rugged individuals able to survive after liberalism and socialism create their inevitable bankrupt dysptopia. At least those kids will be able to traverse the smoking ruins of society and restart it using whatever leftover starving liberal drones they can assemble.


Wow, man, you're trying way too hard. You're only gonna catch the most rabid of the "someone is WRONG on the internet" crowd that way.


sendtodave: DavidVincent: Kazan: homeschooling isolates your kids from experiences that would help them understand other people and develop a sense of community and compassion.

[bullying-pic.jpg]


As much as it sucks, part of being properly socialized is learning to deal with arseholes, and learning to navigate the labyrinth maze of large group interaction. It'd be nice if everyone else could just be nice, civil people instead of selfish, conniving d*cks, but it simply isn't the case. Not even after high school.
 
2012-02-18 07:49:59 PM  

lilplatinum: sendtodave: Because if it's one thing kids need, it's regular daily peer supervision and discomfort!

For some reason it seems the argument keeps coming back to "the world sucks, so school should, too."

What is your point? The general purpose of school is to prepare kids to function in the world, through education and socialization. Home schooling can serve half of this goal... and trying to be unrealistically optimistic about reality is not going to change that fact.


My point is that "school is supposed to suck, because life sucks" isn't exactly a great argument for public schools.

You could homeschool, and just beat your kids with a rubber hose now and then to achieve the same effect.
 
2012-02-18 07:50:02 PM  

Nels: Exactly my point. Keeping idiots like you (who think the electrical impulses in your brain that are the substance of your thoughts are possible of possible of penetrating a case of bone and "reading" another person psychically) from being exposed to the majority of society during their critical developmental phases is critical to slowing our decent into cultural hell. I mean--we're going to well, but we don't have to ride down a zip-line there in a hand basket.


Oh my. I haven't been paying close attention to this thread, but I seriously hope this is a troll/joke. Or do we take people Fark names literally? Because if I had known that, I would have picked something different.
 
2012-02-18 07:50:23 PM  
Can't be dumber than public schoolers.
 
2012-02-18 07:50:50 PM  

Nancy Grace's Billowing Face Vents: hink their lack of know-how in providing an education may be somewhat ameliorated by helping them avoid becoming the 'spamified homogenons' that public education petri dishes we call schools.


This sentence is hardly a glowing endorsement for home-schooling.

Nancy Grace's Billowing Face Vents: It's the attention that matters.


So why not send your kids to school to get what they can out of it, and take care of the rest at home?
 
2012-02-18 07:51:16 PM  

sendtodave: rebelyell2006: DavidVincent: Those of you against home schooling, what are your thoughts on private schools? Religious schools? Yeshivas?

Nothing wrong with private non-church schools.

So, actually, religion is the real problem. We should just get rid of it!


As an atheist I think that is not a bad idea. Superstitions get in the way of useful education.
 
2012-02-18 07:51:21 PM  

sendtodave: My point is that "school is supposed to suck, because life sucks" isn't exactly a great argument for public schools.

You could homeschool, and just beat your kids with a rubber hose now and then to achieve the same effect.


Then they would just learn about having to survive shiatty parents instead of learning how to survive shiatty peers.
 
2012-02-18 07:51:30 PM  

lilplatinum: orbister: but do understand the compromises one must make when you put your child into the school system.

Yeah, exposing your children to opposing viewpoints is a farking biatch.


t1.gstatic.com

Learning to respect opposing viewpoints.
 
2012-02-18 07:52:04 PM  

armageddonbound: I've met more than 50 homeschooled kids. Not one of them was able to function in society at a high level. NOT ONE. Anecdote? Yes, but a powerful one.


I'm sure that there are demographic groups that run both ways. We participate in a homeschool group that meets once a week where additional classes are taught. You have dozens of homeschooled kids for your anecdotal evidence in one shot. Almost all of them are well-adjusted, and seem on their way to being at this high level you think they're incapable of. Many universities (including Ivy league schools) court homeschooled children because they recognize how many have been given an education that can't be matched in the public schools.
 
2012-02-18 07:53:05 PM  

sendtodave: lilplatinum: orbister: but do understand the compromises one must make when you put your child into the school system.

Yeah, exposing your children to opposing viewpoints is a farking biatch.

[t1.gstatic.com image 181x279]

Learning to respect opposing viewpoints.


And sheltering kids from the fact that people are dicks until they are adults is going to do wonders for them.
 
2012-02-18 07:53:53 PM  

sendtodave: lilplatinum: orbister: but do understand the compromises one must make when you put your child into the school system.

Yeah, exposing your children to opposing viewpoints is a farking biatch.

[t1.gstatic.com image 181x279]

Learning to respect opposing viewpoints.


People keep talking about bullying as a problem at schools. At the private schools I attended, I was never bullied.
 
2012-02-18 07:54:19 PM  
Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

The verse should have said -- "in the first six years of life."

If you haven't taught your child compassion and a sense of ethics by the age of six, not much is going to help. I've had more neighbors than I can count whose children were complete little shiatheads by the time they were five, and by the age of 25, some of whom were MBAs.
 
2012-02-18 07:54:56 PM  

Nels: PsiChick: Homeschooling is for parents with the time, money, and inclination to teach a gifted or special-needs student. That's it. And 'unschooling' is idiotic.

/Homeschooled until HS
//Best decision my mom could have made for me

Exactly my point. Keeping idiots like you (who think the electrical impulses in your brain that are the substance of your thoughts are possible of possible of penetrating a case of bone and "reading" another person psychically) from being exposed to the majority of society during their critical developmental phases is critical to slowing our decent into cultural hell. I mean--we're going to well, but we don't have to ride down a zip-line there in a hand basket.


Oh, look. A completely irrelevant point. Is this your way of saying you want to be on my ignore list? Because I gotta tell you, that really takes some work. Flowers and candy at least.
 
2012-02-18 07:54:58 PM  

lilplatinum: orbister: but do understand the compromises one must make when you put your child into the school system.

Yeah, exposing your children to opposing viewpoints is a farking biatch.


Most homeschoolers I know (remember I'm in the UK, where there an many fewer religious homeschoolers) encourage their children to see as many different viewpoints as possible rather than the relying on the authority of one teacher with one book. Of course good school teachers can do that too, but your clearly unfortunate experience of homeschooling doesn't invalidate the idea any more than a poor experience of school invalidates schools.
 
2012-02-18 07:55:02 PM  

rebelyell2006: sendtodave: lilplatinum: orbister: but do understand the compromises one must make when you put your child into the school system.

Yeah, exposing your children to opposing viewpoints is a farking biatch.

[t1.gstatic.com image 181x279]

Learning to respect opposing viewpoints.

People keep talking about bullying as a problem at schools. At the private schools I attended, I was never bullied.


I got the shiat kicked out of me in school, largely because I was homeschooled in middle school and was totally socially awkward.
 
2012-02-18 07:55:35 PM  

sendtodave: lilplatinum: orbister: but do understand the compromises one must make when you put your child into the school system.

Yeah, exposing your children to opposing viewpoints is a farking biatch.

[t1.gstatic.com image 181x279]

Learning to respect opposing viewpoints.


Debating with pictures that represent dramatized versions of reality is one of the lowest forms of debate. You might as well be posting political cartoons.
 
2012-02-18 07:56:36 PM  

armageddonbound: I've met more than 50 homeschooled kids. Not one of them was able to function in society at a high level. NOT ONE. Anecdote? Yes, but a powerful one.


A powerful anecdote?

You know what else is powerful? Flawed surveys!

Ya chowderhead!

// lolz
 
2012-02-18 07:57:27 PM  

orbister: Most homeschoolers I know (remember I'm in the UK, where there an many fewer religious homeschoolers) encourage their children to see as many different viewpoints as possible rather than the relying on the authority of one teacher with one book. Of course good school teachers can do that too, but your clearly unfortunate experience of homeschooling doesn't invalidate the idea any more than a poor experience of school invalidates schools.


Definitionally a parent cannot expose children to "as many different viewpoints as possible" - people are biased. Even the best intentioned folks are going to transmit the bias. The value of school is that it isn't one set of people transmitting their bias to you.

The problem is that there are areas in the US where your options are a shiathole ghetto school or a middle school that costs more than university in tuition. In these cases I sympathize with parents who homeschool and sometimes it is the only shiatty option. It is still garbage and is a sign of how bad the US system is that there are actually situations where it is objectively acceptable.
 
2012-02-18 07:58:38 PM  

lilplatinum: sendtodave: lilplatinum: orbister: but do understand the compromises one must make when you put your child into the school system.

Yeah, exposing your children to opposing viewpoints is a farking biatch.

[t1.gstatic.com image 181x279]

Learning to respect opposing viewpoints.

And sheltering kids from the fact that people are dicks until they are adults is going to do wonders for them.


I have never once gotten beaten up in any job that I have had. Bossed around? Sure, by the boss. Petty office politics? Of course. But never insulted or harmed.

Because functioning adults don't act that way.

Unless, you know, they are professional MMA fighters or something.
 
2012-02-18 07:59:12 PM  

Submitted First With a Better Headline: Nels: Exactly my point. Keeping idiots like you (who think the electrical impulses in your brain that are the substance of your thoughts are possible of possible of penetrating a case of bone and "reading" another person psychically) from being exposed to the majority of society during their critical developmental phases is critical to slowing our decent into cultural hell. I mean--we're going to well, but we don't have to ride down a zip-line there in a hand basket.

Oh my. I haven't been paying close attention to this thread, but I seriously hope this is a troll/joke. Or do we take people Fark names literally? Because if I had known that, I would have picked something different.


PsiChick: Nels: PsiChick: Homeschooling is for parents with the time, money, and inclination to teach a gifted or special-needs student. That's it. And 'unschooling' is idiotic.

/Homeschooled until HS
//Best decision my mom could have made for me

Exactly my point. Keeping idiots like you (who think the electrical impulses in your brain that are the substance of your thoughts are possible of possible of penetrating a case of bone and "reading" another person psychically) from being exposed to the majority of society during their critical developmental phases is critical to slowing our decent into cultural hell. I mean--we're going to well, but we don't have to ride down a zip-line there in a hand basket.

Oh, look. A completely irrelevant point. Is this your way of saying you want to be on my ignore list? Because I gotta tell you, that really takes some work. Flowers and candy at least.


Your answer. She really is that farkin' stupid.
 
2012-02-18 07:59:51 PM  

sendtodave: I have never once gotten beaten up in any job that I have had. Bossed around? Sure, by the boss. Petty office politics? Of course. But never insulted or harmed.

Because functioning adults don't act that way.


Bullying takes a lot of forms and evolves from shoving kids into lockers.

"Functioning adults" bully people all the farking time.
 
2012-02-18 08:00:44 PM  
So let's just break it down. "Home schooling" is another way of saying, "I don't want my children around THE OTHER - people who look different from us, or who may come from a different culture."

Alternately, "I don't want my children to worship more than God and Jesus, the Almighty Quarterback."
 
2012-02-18 08:00:55 PM  

lilplatinum: rebelyell2006: sendtodave: lilplatinum: orbister: but do understand the compromises one must make when you put your child into the school system.

Yeah, exposing your children to opposing viewpoints is a farking biatch.

[t1.gstatic.com image 181x279]

Learning to respect opposing viewpoints.

People keep talking about bullying as a problem at schools. At the private schools I attended, I was never bullied.

I got the shiat kicked out of me in school, largely because I was homeschooled in middle school and was totally socially awkward.



Middle school in the public school system for me was basically just 3 years of daily physical and mental abuse at the hands of other kids while my parents were getting wasted, hitting each other, and destroying the non-school part of my life. By 17 I was sleeping around, at 21 I was using weed, alcohol, LSD, mushrooms, cough syrup, anything I could get my hands on.
 
2012-02-18 08:01:18 PM  

sendtodave: I have never once gotten beaten up in any job that I have had. Bossed around? Sure, by the boss. Petty office politics? Of course. But never insulted or harmed.

Because functioning adults don't act that way.

Unless, you know, they are professional MMA fighters or something cops.


FTFY
 
2012-02-18 08:01:29 PM  

lilplatinum: Homeschooling is a form of child abuse.


Where I live I'm surrounded by hordes of Cletuses and Brandines that want utter nonsense like creationism and abstinence only sex ed taught in schools. The Cletuses and Brandines often run the school boards and therefore get their way.Sending your kid to public school system that bows to cretins like that when you have another option is child abuse.And no, moving isn't always an option.

/Doesn't have kids
//Doesn't want kids
 
2012-02-18 08:03:17 PM  

culebra: Nancy Grace's Billowing Face Vents: hink their lack of know-how in providing an education may be somewhat ameliorated by helping them avoid becoming the 'spamified homogenons' that public education petri dishes we call schools.

This sentence is hardly a glowing endorsement for home-schooling.


LOL You are right. I am not endorsing them per se, but there are pros to avoiding the lazy-ass schmultz that is the public education system. Kids are left out in every farking class.

I can't see a parent taking the time to home school their kid... and then letting them get away with not learning.

Plus - they have to follow a curriculum.. it's not intelligent design dinosaurs all day...!!!

---

I dunno...

We are living in a new age. I could teach a kid to research things critically on the internet and in the library and he can learn 3 times faster outside of a school collective.
 
2012-02-18 08:03:30 PM  

culebra: dramatized versions of reality


Because physical confrontations among socially immature peers never happen.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Often misspelled, with cats.
 
2012-02-18 08:03:34 PM  

JRoo: By 17 I was sleeping around, at 21 I was using weed, alcohol, LSD, mushrooms, cough syrup, anything I could get my hands on.


You say these things like they are bad...

El Freak: And no, moving isn't always an option.


Moving is always an option (especially in the south), unless you live in a concentration camp on the Gaza strip or something... its just not always a convenient option.
 
2012-02-18 08:04:53 PM  

sendtodave: Because physical confrontations among socially immature peers never happen.


And the logical response to the possibility of physical confrontations among socially immature peers is to cloister a child away from reality.

/farking helicopter parents.
 
2012-02-18 08:05:07 PM  

lilplatinum: sendtodave: My point is that "school is supposed to suck, because life sucks" isn't exactly a great argument for public schools.

You could homeschool, and just beat your kids with a rubber hose now and then to achieve the same effect.

Then they would just learn about having to survive shiatty parents instead of learning how to survive shiatty peers.



I have difficulty believing shiatty parents would be interested in home schooling.
 
2012-02-18 08:05:21 PM  

doyner: Kazan: doyner: Kazan: doyner: The computers at your school didn't have a "shift" key did they?

when you cannot dispute the content, attack the delivery.

[welcometofark.jpg]

yes, because misuing that meme makes you correct and instantly the ruler of the planet.

[lightenupfrancis.jpg]


How 'bout a "stupidpieceofdogshiat.jpg" for you, cupcake?
 
2012-02-18 08:06:53 PM  

Nancy Grace's Billowing Face Vents: lilplatinum: sendtodave: My point is that "school is supposed to suck, because life sucks" isn't exactly a great argument for public schools.

You could homeschool, and just beat your kids with a rubber hose now and then to achieve the same effect.

Then they would just learn about having to survive shiatty parents instead of learning how to survive shiatty peers.


I have difficulty believing shiatty parents would be interested in home schooling.


And yet so many shiatty parents choose to homeschool instead of letting their children learn about science.
 
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