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(Pro Football Talk)   The NFL continues to champion players $afety by moving towards an 18-game season   (profootballtalk.nbcsports.com) divider line 72
    More: Asinine, NFL, inactive season, Roger Goodell, logical possibility, revenue sharing  
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1410 clicks; posted to Sports » on 18 Feb 2012 at 9:50 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-18 10:00:26 AM
Why are players paid for preseason games?
 
2012-02-18 10:01:13 AM
Better question: why are they paid per game instead of per year?
 
2012-02-18 10:03:30 AM

HaywoodJablonski: Better question: why are they paid per game instead of per year?


Why are they paid in money and not coupons?
 
2012-02-18 10:04:12 AM
Maybe they can make both new weeks all Thursday night games, played in London too!
 
2012-02-18 10:05:36 AM

HaywoodJablonski: Why are players paid for preseason games?


They aren't, They get their training camp per diem which is $500/day.
 
2012-02-18 10:08:00 AM
Exactly sixteen games is somehow the universal constant for ultimate player safety?
 
2012-02-18 10:14:01 AM
Right now they've found a pretty good sweet spot where almost all regular season games matter. If they extend the season by two, they'll end up with fewer games in the last two weeks which mean anything. I hate the NY Giants, but the final game of this past season (NYG vs Dallas) would not happen as frequently with an 18 game schedule. Bad idea.
 
2012-02-18 10:16:48 AM
As a rabid fan, I would love an 18 game season. But if they are going to do that, they need to throw in an extra bye week, or even an extra two byes (for 3 total).

And as much as I like football on Thanksgiving and Christmas, let them have the holidays off for cryin out loud!

Those things would extend the season only by about 3-4 wks, including the Play Offs.
 
2012-02-18 10:19:29 AM

Kuta: Right now they've found a pretty good sweet spot where almost all regular season games matter. If they extend the season by two, they'll end up with fewer games in the last two weeks which mean anything. I hate the NY Giants, but the final game of this past season (NYG vs Dallas) would not happen as frequently with an 18 game schedule. Bad idea.


Yes, it is utterly mathematically inconceivable that two teams might go into the last week of the season at 9-8 or 8-9 and be playing to win their division. The number 16 is more magical than the number 18.
 
2012-02-18 10:27:06 AM

jackandwater: As a rabid fan, I would love an 18 game season. But if they are going to do that, they need to throw in an extra bye week, or even an extra two byes (for 3 total).

And as much as I like football on Thanksgiving and Christmas, let them have the holidays off for cryin out loud!

Those things would extend the season only by about 3-4 wks, including the Play Offs.


Make the preseason 3 games. Or two.

Kill the Pro Bowl; make it like the All-America team for college.
 
2012-02-18 10:31:27 AM
Get rid of the week off before the super bowl, cancel the Pro bowl. Smart coaches will give some players a game off here and there so they can rest and heal. I would say scrap the International games, but those are guaranteed sellouts.
 
2012-02-18 10:31:47 AM
For every 9-8 matchup they'll be five Jaguars/Raiders type matchups.

Don't believe the hype.
 
2012-02-18 10:34:33 AM

bubbaprog: HaywoodJablonski: Why are players paid for preseason games?

They aren't, They get their training camp per diem which is $500/day.


Then the premise of the article is wrong
 
2012-02-18 10:34:39 AM

Rapmaster2000: For every 9-8 matchup they'll be five Jaguars/Raiders type matchups.


The same is true now. The week 17 play-in is an anomaly.
 
2012-02-18 10:36:52 AM

Rapmaster2000: For every 9-8 matchup they'll be five Jaguars/Raiders type matchups.

Don't believe the hype.


16 is a perfect number. If they want more revenue, give every team 2 bye weeks, extend the season by 2 weeks (TV money won't reduce, certainly), and you have the added bonus that you show you're doing something about player safety
 
2012-02-18 10:40:59 AM
I'm for the 18 game season purely because I'm selfish and want more football. Take away two preseason games or all, I don't really care. Make the pro-bowl an exihibition of rookies vs near-retirement veterans, or something. Also extend the playoffs by a round and get a couple more wildcards in there. In conclusion, I support putting expansion teams in both London and Mexico City.
 
2012-02-18 10:44:24 AM
I will say it makes sense from a scheduling standpoint. Each team would play division opponents twice, plus 3 other divisions instead of 2 divisions plus 2 other matchups (usually picked for assumed popularity, like a 49ers/Saints rematch).
 
2012-02-18 10:45:39 AM
26 game schedule! Gives players time to heal.
 
2012-02-18 10:46:29 AM

iron_city_ap: (usually picked for assumed popularity, like a 49ers/Saints rematch).


Sigh. At least know what you're commenting on. The other two matchups are not arbitrary. They're against the teams in the two other in-conference divisions that finished in the same ranking within their own divisions.
 
2012-02-18 10:53:49 AM

JustFarkingGreat: HaywoodJablonski: Better question: why are they paid per game instead of per year?

Why are they paid in money and not coupons?


Why are they paid in money, and not Strident Layers gum?
 
2012-02-18 11:41:17 AM

Minarets: JustFarkingGreat: HaywoodJablonski: Better question: why are they paid per game instead of per year?

Why are they paid in money and not coupons?

Why are they paid in money, and not Strident Layers gum?


Why aren't they paying us to watch them play?
 
2012-02-18 11:42:21 AM
18 games! Oh boo-farking-hoo. What delicate little flowers.

Hockey players play 82 games a season (plus up to a couple dozen more in the playoffs), and that's at least as tough and physical and injury-filled a sport as football. Plus all the players have to play both offense and defense.

If it's really such a big issue, increase the length of the season and throw in more bye weeks to give them more recovery time. Surely it's not necessary to have 7 months of offseason every year.
 
2012-02-18 11:47:44 AM

Doc Daneeka: 18 games! Oh boo-farking-hoo. What delicate little flowers.

Hockey players play 82 games a season (plus up to a couple dozen more in the playoffs), and that's at least as tough and physical and injury-filled a sport as football. Plus all the players have to play both offense and defense.

If it's really such a big issue, increase the length of the season and throw in more bye weeks to give them more recovery time. Surely it's not necessary to have 7 months of offseason every year.


I'm sure if you compared the number of concussions per team per season between hockey and football, they'd be close. Right?

Right?

/sarcasmmode
 
2012-02-18 11:52:56 AM

TheZorker: Doc Daneeka: 18 games! Oh boo-farking-hoo. What delicate little flowers.

Hockey players play 82 games a season (plus up to a couple dozen more in the playoffs), and that's at least as tough and physical and injury-filled a sport as football. Plus all the players have to play both offense and defense.

If it's really such a big issue, increase the length of the season and throw in more bye weeks to give them more recovery time. Surely it's not necessary to have 7 months of offseason every year.

I'm sure if you compared the number of concussions per team per season between hockey and football, they'd be close. Right?

Right?

/sarcasmmode


I don't know. You go ahead and do that. And make sure to correct for the fact that NFL rosters are several times larger than NHL rosters.

I'd wager that the percentage of players suffering concussions each year is roughly similar.
 
2012-02-18 12:04:32 PM

Doc Daneeka: Hockey players play 82 games a season (plus up to a couple dozen more in the playoffs), and that's at least as tough and physical and injury-filled a sport as football. Plus all the players have to play both offense and defense.


I like both sports, but, no, hockey is not "at least as tough and physical" as football. Hockey does not feature 6'3" 260 lb linebackers who can close on you at Olympic speed.
 
2012-02-18 12:05:06 PM

TheZorker: Doc Daneeka: 18 games! Oh boo-farking-hoo. What delicate little flowers.

Hockey players play 82 games a season (plus up to a couple dozen more in the playoffs), and that's at least as tough and physical and injury-filled a sport as football. Plus all the players have to play both offense and defense.

If it's really such a big issue, increase the length of the season and throw in more bye weeks to give them more recovery time. Surely it's not necessary to have 7 months of offseason every year.

I'm sure if you compared the number of concussions per team per season between hockey and football, they'd be close. Right?

Right?

/sarcasmmode


Go back to leather helmets, teach the players how to tackle properly, and not go for the big "pop", Tell players and coaches that the player sits if he has any signs of a concussion instead of trying to play through it, and you'll see concussions go down drastically
 
2012-02-18 12:09:08 PM
52 game schedule!!!!!

i.imgur.com
 
2012-02-18 12:14:01 PM

kronicfeld: Doc Daneeka: Hockey players play 82 games a season (plus up to a couple dozen more in the playoffs), and that's at least as tough and physical and injury-filled a sport as football. Plus all the players have to play both offense and defense.

I like both sports, but, no, hockey is not "at least as tough and physical" as football. Hockey does not feature 6'3" 260 lb linebackers who can close on you at Olympic speed.


No. It features 6'3" 230lb defensemen who can close on you at much faster than Olympic speed, because they are traveling upwards of 20mph on ice skates.
 
2012-02-18 12:19:20 PM

kronicfeld: Exactly sixteen games is somehow the universal constant for ultimate player safety?


In as much as sixteen tons is the universal constant for the age/debt ratio.
 
2012-02-18 12:19:32 PM
Quick check of Google gives me This TSN article (new window), which claims between 4.9 and 7.7 per 100 players.

On the flipside: This NFL.Com story: Link (new window) has 154 over an 8 week regular season stretch (including practices). We'll call it 308 (since that doesn't include preseason or playoffs, it's likely a bit higher). There's roughly 50 active players on 30 teams, or 1500 players. That's about 20 per 100 players.

So, no. I'll stick with hockey.
 
2012-02-18 12:30:23 PM

HaywoodJablonski: Rapmaster2000: For every 9-8 matchup they'll be five Jaguars/Raiders type matchups.

Don't believe the hype.

16 is a perfect number. If they want more revenue, give every team 2 bye weeks, extend the season by 2 weeks (TV money won't reduce, certainly), and you have the added bonus that you show you're doing something about player safety


They had two BYE weeks in 1993, and I never figured out why they stopped.
 
2012-02-18 12:33:00 PM
With the issues football players have longterm after their careers are over, I'd be opposed to this vehemently. If anything it should be shorter to preserve player health.

And if they do this, to make up for the 2 extra games they should retroactively increase every single player's salaries (heck, and bonuses) to 112.5% of the original amount to account for the extra games... as well as increase the salary cap by that amount. No reason to force players to kill their bodies for 2 extra games a year without a likewise increase in pay. The NFL will be making enough money to cover the increase easily.
 
2012-02-18 12:33:13 PM

Doc Daneeka: TheZorker: Doc Daneeka: 18 games! Oh boo-farking-hoo. What delicate little flowers.

Hockey players play 82 games a season (plus up to a couple dozen more in the playoffs), and that's at least as tough and physical and injury-filled a sport as football. Plus all the players have to play both offense and defense.

If it's really such a big issue, increase the length of the season and throw in more bye weeks to give them more recovery time. Surely it's not necessary to have 7 months of offseason every year.

I'm sure if you compared the number of concussions per team per season between hockey and football, they'd be close. Right?

Right?

/sarcasmmode

I don't know. You go ahead and do that. And make sure to correct for the fact that NFL rosters are several times larger than NHL rosters.

I'd wager that the percentage of players suffering concussions each year is roughly similar.


Wasn't able with a quick search to find the yearly data on concussions for the NHL, but did find a page that listed 559 concussions in the regular seasons from 1997 to 2004 (new window). Averages out to roughly 70 per season. NFL reported 159 concussions in the 2010 season, via this (new window). NHL has 30 teams with 23 players each, while NFL has 32 teams with 57 players per team. So we find for the 690 players in the NHL a concussion rate of 10.1% receiving concussions, while the NFL with 1824 players 8.71% receiving concussions. If you consider the fact that some players in the NFL are pretty unlikely to ever get concussions (kickers, punters, those that never play), the effective concussion rate per players at risk of them between the two sports should be pretty similar, though this math would take much longer to do. It should be noted too, though, that there is also talk about the NHL concussion rate being dangerously high as well. Just because the two sports have similar concussion rates does not mean that EITHER sport is taking proper safety precautions with its players.
 
2012-02-18 01:00:44 PM
For comparison, the CFL has two preseason games, an 18 week schedule, and one bye week. This is with a roster of 45 as compared to an NFL roster of 55, and there is one more guy on the field at all times. There are an average of 125 plays per game in the NFL, compared to 150 in the CFL. Assuming that most players play only offense or defense, and additionally play on special teams, That means that a CFL player plays about the equivalent of 4 more games per season than the typical NFL player. The hits aren't any softer, either.

And yet, the injury rates are no higher or more severe. Take that for what you will, but I view the speculative player safety issue as complete bullshiat. We have actual evidence to compare with here.
 
2012-02-18 01:04:57 PM

ZMugg: kronicfeld: Exactly sixteen games is somehow the universal constant for ultimate player safety?

In as much as sixteen tons is the universal constant for the age/debt ratio.


Another day older and deeper in debt...
 
2012-02-18 01:14:19 PM

Doc Daneeka: kronicfeld: Doc Daneeka: Hockey players play 82 games a season (plus up to a couple dozen more in the playoffs), and that's at least as tough and physical and injury-filled a sport as football. Plus all the players have to play both offense and defense.

I like both sports, but, no, hockey is not "at least as tough and physical" as football. Hockey does not feature 6'3" 260 lb linebackers who can close on you at Olympic speed.

No. It features 6'3" 230lb defensemen who can close on you at much faster than Olympic speed, because they are traveling upwards of 20mph on ice skates.


Troll?

Has to be...
 
2012-02-18 01:24:55 PM

Doc Daneeka: kronicfeld: Doc Daneeka: Hockey players play 82 games a season (plus up to a couple dozen more in the playoffs), and that's at least as tough and physical and injury-filled a sport as football. Plus all the players have to play both offense and defense.

I like both sports, but, no, hockey is not "at least as tough and physical" as football. Hockey does not feature 6'3" 260 lb linebackers who can close on you at Olympic speed.

No. It features 6'3" 230lb defensemen who can close on you at much faster than Olympic speed, because they are traveling upwards of 20mph on ice skates.


I've never seen a big fat guy play pro hockey either
 
2012-02-18 02:01:33 PM

unyon: For comparison, the CFL has two preseason games, an 18 week schedule, and one bye week. This is with a roster of 45 as compared to an NFL roster of 55, and there is one more guy on the field at all times. There are an average of 125 plays per game in the NFL, compared to 150 in the CFL. Assuming that most players play only offense or defense, and additionally play on special teams, That means that a CFL player plays about the equivalent of 4 more games per season than the typical NFL player. The hits aren't any softer, either.

And yet, the injury rates are no higher or more severe. Take that for what you will, but I view the speculative player safety issue as complete bullshiat. We have actual evidence to compare with here.


True. No one seems to point this out in this debate. Anyways, I do like an idea I heard on Simmons podcast. If the NFLPA are so worried about player safety, they should insist that the NFL can have their 18 games but no player can play more than 16 games in a season. Then we'd have some strategy on who to sit out and when. That and it should reward depth on rosters as well.
 
2012-02-18 02:21:53 PM
Get rid of the preseason. Problem solved.
 
2012-02-18 02:23:04 PM
Don't have the numbers handy, but didn't almost half of last season's starting QBs get taken out by injuries before 16 games had been played? And it's not like there's a deep roster of backups to draw from. Play an 18 game season and teams will be fighting to sign Jamarcus Russell as the last viable QB going into the playoffs.
 
2012-02-18 02:24:47 PM

carnifex2005:
True. No one seems to point this out in this debate. Anyways, I do like an idea I heard on Simmons podcast. If the NFLPA are so worried about player safety, they should insist that the NFL can have their 18 games but no player can play more than 16 games in a season. Then we'd have some strategy on who to sit out and when. That and it should reward depth on rosters as well.


Fantasy Owners would never allow that, not that they get a vote of course.

I say decrease the amount of pads players wear and teach them to actually tackle, and not just launch themselves. Way too many players seem to lead with their helmet, figuring since they have all that protection they might as well take advantage of it.
 
2012-02-18 02:48:25 PM

kronicfeld: Kuta: Right now they've found a pretty good sweet spot where almost all regular season games matter. If they extend the season by two, they'll end up with fewer games in the last two weeks which mean anything. I hate the NY Giants, but the final game of this past season (NYG vs Dallas) would not happen as frequently with an 18 game schedule. Bad idea.

Yes, it is utterly mathematically inconceivable that two teams might go into the last week of the season at 9-8 or 8-9 and be playing to win their division. The number 16 is more magical than the number 18.


16 is a bit more magical, since there are 4 teams in each division. That way, schedules can be made up such that teams play 4 games against 1st place teams, 4 against 2nd place . . . and so on. An 18-game schedule would unbalance the current magic.
 
2012-02-18 02:48:27 PM

bgddy24601: 52 game schedule!!!!!

[i.imgur.com image 400x400]


YESSSSSSSS
 
2012-02-18 03:16:38 PM

NeoCortex42: carnifex2005: I say decrease the amount of pads players wear and teach them to actually tackle, and not just launch themselves. Way too many players seem to lead with their helmet, figuring since they have all that protection they might as well take advantage of it.


True, but there is a fallacy that all these concussions are coming from the knock out helmet-to-helmet hits. In reality, the guys suffering debilitating mental illness in later life are linemen and linebackers who are getting their heads crushed on every single play.
 
2012-02-18 03:20:29 PM

Telephone Sanitizer Second Class: Don't have the numbers handy, but didn't almost half of last season's starting QBs get taken out by injuries before 16 games had been played? And it's not like there's a deep roster of backups to draw from. Play an 18 game season and teams will be fighting to sign Jamarcus Russell as the last viable QB going into the playoffs.


Maybe on average, but I think a few teams (Houston and Oakland, to name two) lost more than 1 starting QB. I think both of them lost 2 each (Schaub/Leinart; Campbell/Boller).

Bad luck year for QBs, and I think more of a focus on H2H and egregious hits should make next year a bit better.
 
2012-02-18 03:25:46 PM

Doc Daneeka: Hockey players play 82 games a season (plus up to a couple dozen more in the playoffs), and that's at least as tough and physical and injury-filled a sport as football. Plus all the players have to play both offense and defense.


"LOL 18 GAME'S??? WELL HOCKEY PLAYER'S PLYA 82 GAMES SO DIVIDE 82 IN TOO 18 AN HOCKEY PLAYER'S ARE 4.5 TIME'S TOUGHER THEN NFL BLACK PPL WHY ISn'T ANYOEN LISTENING TOO ME???" Jesus. Hockey fans really are the most obnoxious fan base on the planet.
 
2012-02-18 03:36:49 PM
Increase the season by two games. You know how freaking annoying it is when three teams in a conference end the season with a 9-7 or 10-6 record, and one of those teams (fairly arbitrarily) doesn't get to make the playoffs when the other two do?

IN ADDITION, remove two preseason games (so the total number of games played stays the same), increase the roster size from 53 to 56 or 58 or so (to allow more rotation of players) and add a second bye week (increasing the length of the season by ONE WEEK).

How's that for a compromise?
 
2012-02-18 03:42:16 PM
Forget player injuries... I don't want the season lengthened because I already get fatigued by the coverage. I really like football, but coverage of its minutia swallows up the coverage of bigger events for other sports I like watching.

/me
 
2012-02-18 03:57:08 PM

Chupacabra Sandwich: Doc Daneeka: kronicfeld: Doc Daneeka: Hockey players play 82 games a season (plus up to a couple dozen more in the playoffs), and that's at least as tough and physical and injury-filled a sport as football. Plus all the players have to play both offense and defense.

I like both sports, but, no, hockey is not "at least as tough and physical" as football. Hockey does not feature 6'3" 260 lb linebackers who can close on you at Olympic speed.

No. It features 6'3" 230lb defensemen who can close on you at much faster than Olympic speed, because they are traveling upwards of 20mph on ice skates.

Troll?

Has to be...


Whether it's a football thread or a wrestling thread, some hockey asshole has to come in and say Hockey is the toughest sport. Bullshiat. I've been tackled playing football by black kids that were over already over 6 feet and 230lbs in high school. You can't compare a huge black man against a skinny Canadian with 3 teeth left in his mouth. I'll take on the biggest hockey player's check into the boards against a black missile like Justin Tuck coming at me. And I'm a little bit racist, so it pains me to say it
 
2012-02-18 03:57:41 PM

unyon: For comparison, the CFL has two preseason games, an 18 week schedule, and one bye week. This is with a roster of 45 as compared to an NFL roster of 55, and there is one more guy on the field at all times. There are an average of 125 plays per game in the NFL, compared to 150 in the CFL. Assuming that most players play only offense or defense, and additionally play on special teams, That means that a CFL player plays about the equivalent of 4 more games per season than the typical NFL player. The hits aren't any softer, either.

And yet, the injury rates are no higher or more severe. Take that for what you will, but I view the speculative player safety issue as complete bullshiat. We have actual evidence to compare with here.



THIS! Oh and Fantuz? Screw you!
 
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