By the way, in my opinion, what was done to our country was wrong and unpatriotic and un-American and nobody has been held to account.

Specifically in the way the government has been turned over to the banks and moneyed classes, and also in regards to the conduct of the executive branch in the years between 2000 and 2008, but especially 2000-2004.

randomjsa: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are certainly guilty in all of this however, more so than any other person or entity.

You know how I know you understand politics via talking points?

shivashakti: Springsteen's right. It's not just one party, though. Both parties are corporate whores.
Not just Bush. Not just Obama. Every single President for decades.

These people will never help the poor unless there's something in it for them.
This needs to change.

I admire Springsteen for this. I know he's trying to be another Bob Dylan or Woody Guthrie or Pete Seeger. But I just wasn't into this new single all that much. Which is a shame because I love some of his music.

To be fair, he's always made protest music. "Born in the USA" is one of the most god-damn depressing songs you'll ever hear if you pay attention to the lyrics (which I guess makes it a pretty sarcastic song given how upbeat the tune is), and it's entirely about how the hell-scape wrought by Reagan and his ilk of owner-friendly politicians.

Spad31: Well, "soiled reputation" and all, people flock in droves to get in. Ain't too many of you who're biatchin' trying to get out. So...hmmm. Go figure.

Aside from, you know, the corporations that complain about their taxes being too high and wondering aloud about relocating to a 'more friendly' environment every time someone seriously talks about raising corporate taxes.

You know, the 'job creators' that employ 10-20 times as many workers outside the US as they do inside the US.

Also the assorted nuts on the right and left that say they're moving to Canada/wherever if Bush/Obama/whoever gets re-elected. But they're not job creators, so who cares about them. Gotta keep those American companies going so they can employ all those Chinese and Indian factory workers. For America, of course.

We've got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler machine-gun hand.

Neil Young did it better in the 80's.

to fix our issues, everyone is going to have to give up things they want.

I thought people got into politics to get what they wanted at the expense of what the people who voted them in wanted.

personally, i'm broke. life broke me last year. i can't give up anything more without compromising my ability to get through life and i'm not talking silly creature comforts. i'm talking about the basics. and if that makes me a spoiled princess, then i'll pawn my tiara for gas money.

randomjsa: Even if Bush does share some of the blame, so do a host of congressional Democrats, and even some policies going back to the Clinton era. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are certainly guilty in all of this however, more so than any other person or entity.

The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission reported in January 2011 that: "The three credit rating agencies were key enablers of the financial meltdown. The mortgage-related securities at the heart of the crisis could not have been marketed and sold without their seal of approval. Investors relied on them, often blindly. In some cases, they were obligated to use them, or regulatory capital standards were hinged on them. This crisis could not have happened without the rating agencies. Their ratings helped the market soar and their downgrades through 2007 and 2008 wreaked havoc across markets and firms."

In other words, even if we restrict blame to corporations, then the three credit agencies share a bigger part of the blame than Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Republicans just like to over-emphasis Mae's and Mac's impact just so they can blame Democrats and poor people, when Republicans in congress were the ones who deregulated everything in the first place. Ultimately, this wasn't just a housing bubble which got us in the current mess, but sub-prime mortgage crisis given the seal of approval of the credit agencies.

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Spad31: Well, "soiled reputation" and all, people flock in droves to get in. Ain't too many of you who're biatchin' trying to get out. So...hmmm. Go figure.

We live in an area that has a large number of immigrants. The only ones trying to get in are Mexican/Central American, and they're coming over because of the remaining fallout from NAFTA. Most of the people who have the luxury to choose, or who have attained refugee status have talked about getting a choice where they would immigrate to. One woman I knew was from Sudan; her father got a knock on the door late one night and was told that he was going to be killed the next morning. So, they crossed the desert in the middle of the night, got refugee status, and chose the countries they most wanted to live in: England, Ireland, France, the Netherlands, Canada, and the U.S, in that order. The U.S. still had not filled the quota, so they got in. She told me it was very bittersweet when they heard where they were going. The family felt pleased they were leaving, but they wished it would have been to a country that had their "things in order a little more." I got the sense that the U.S. was basically at the bottom of the list of possible countries for a lot of refugees. Thoroughly shiatty reputation abroad, not only for the international politics, but also the domestic ones. An Ukrainian guy I was speaking to the other day was confused about how the U.S. states were still passing the stupidest laws he had ever seen.

My theory is that all levels of politics are, increasingly, becoming nationalized. State and local politicians don't care as much about local issues anymore because they don't need to; most of their funding comes from the national parties or national funding networks, and the national parties demand ideological loyalty, the good of constituents be damned. I think this explains pretty well why we've seen this push from lots of new Republican governors & legislatures to disenfranchise voters, destroy unions, obstruct women's health-care, and disrupt federal programs even when they help the state those pols serve. These behaviors don't make any kind of sense if you look at them from the perspective of a civil servant pursuing what's in the best interests of his state or city, but they make perfect sense from the perspective of a national party making war on the funders, voters, and programs associated with their opposing national party. What guys like Walker are doing isn't trying to oppress the poor, women, and blue collar workers; it's trying to shatter the base of the Democratic Party.

Fart_Machine: We've got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler machine-gun hand.

Neil Young did it better in the 80's.

He's CANADIAN.

inkblot: He never says exactly what's been done to our country. And he can't, lest he lose sales and break the illusion in his fans' heads that the song is about whatever their pet cause is.


I was thinking the same thing when reading the story. His fans are mostly uneducated rural males and religious so-called patriots, all white of course, two groups who only take from society. If he was honest he would call them on it but there's no chance he will do that.

jmr61: His fans are mostly uneducated rural males and religious so-called patriots, all white of course, two groups who only take from society.

Are you talking about the same guy everyone else is?

jmr61: I was thinking the same thing when reading the story. His fans are mostly uneducated rural males and religious so-called patriots, all white of course, two groups who only take from society. If he was honest he would call them on it but there's no chance he will do that.

Bruce Springsteen is a country musician?

Gwyrddu: randomjsa:derpderpderp

...Response to derp...

I know you mean well, but wrestling in the mud with a pig just gets you dirty, and the pig likes it

jmr61: inkblot: He never says exactly what's been done to our country. And he can't, lest he lose sales and break the illusion in his fans' heads that the song is about whatever their pet cause is.


I was thinking the same thing when reading the story. His fans are mostly uneducated rural males and religious so-called patriots, all white of course, two groups who only take from society. If he was honest he would call them on it but there's no chance he will do that.

WTF is this I don't even...

I know whose fault it was: THE LIBS

Skleenar: jmr61: His fans are mostly uneducated rural males and religious so-called patriots, all white of course, two groups who only take from society.

Are you talking about the same guy everyone else is?

I think he meant to post that in the Pat Buchanan thread.

Weaver95: ...and the baby boomer generation is really gonna pitch a fit about a lot of it. But we can climb out of this pit. all it takes is the will to get it done.

Nonsense. The 1% is going to pitch a fit. Their lickspittles will pitch a fit. Trying to pin it on boomers is just another part of divide-and-conquer tactics of the 1%.

Shaggy_C: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: What are Ted Nugent's views on Bruce Springsteen?

I found a fun quote from back in 2003:
"Well, God bless Bruce Springsteen. What an amazing rhythm and blues band that he
has. And he's made some wonderful music. And god bless him for standing
up for what he believes in...Unfortunately, he believes in a lie...So I think that Bruce probably should shut up and sing."

Makes sense. I'd rather hear Ted Nugent's political views than have him perform his godawful music.

Shaggy_C: Shut up and sing, entertainer. No one cares about your misinformed political views.

The idea that because someone is an entertainer automatically means they cannot be informed and oughtn't use their status and voice for political advocacy absolutely astounds me, especially in an era and place in which corporations can dump billions annually without regulation or transparency to subvert the actual government and be defended by the same people who denounce entertainers' speaking politically.

Me, I'll take the two cents of guys like Tom Morello, who has a political science degree from Harvard, over Bubba Lee the Teabagger for whom graduating high school was a goddamn miracle any day of the week. Or guys like Springsteen, who didn't dodge the draft unlike the vast majority of right-wing chickenhawks, and spent the prime of his career engaged in activism to help Vietnam vets while those same chickenhawks up to and including Saint Ronnie made their careers of crapping all over the vets and trumping up the next set of wars to make more vets to crap all over.

"I have spent my life judging the distance between American reality and the American dream."

And yet he still hasn't realized that the American Dream is, was, and ever shall be, a total con.

jmr61: inkblot: He never says exactly what's been done to our country. And he can't, lest he lose sales and break the illusion in his fans' heads that the song is about whatever their pet cause is.


I was thinking the same thing when reading the story. His fans are mostly uneducated rural males and religious so-called patriots, all white of course, two groups who only take from society. If he was honest he would call them on it but there's no chance he will do that.

I'm a huge Springsteen fan. I'm a college educated urban female and an atheist. I am white, though. So you got that part right.

You have no clue what you're talking about. I've seen him live probably a dozen times and seen all walks of life there; young, old, white, black, you name it.

jmr61: inkblot: He never says exactly what's been done to our country. And he can't, lest he lose sales and break the illusion in his fans' heads that the song is about whatever their pet cause is.


I was thinking the same thing when reading the story. His fans are mostly uneducated rural males and religious so-called patriots, all white of course, two groups who only take from society. If he was honest he would call them on it but there's no chance he will do that.

Bruce's biggest fanbase is in New Jersey, which granted is a shiathole, but it's not exactly Bible belt.

Besides which, you're missing the whole point of his message if you're expecting him to "call" the common man on anything. His entire point is that the common man has been scammed, hoodwinked for decades. That some people still buy in to the scam is a natural consequence of that, unfortunately.

jmr61: His fans are mostly uneducated rural males and religious so-called patriots, all white of course, two groups who only take from society.

Buh? His fans are conservatives?

sendtodave: Buh? His fans are conservatives?

Yeah, the only conservatives I know that are Springsteen fans are too fark-stupid to figure out what his songs are about. They're typically the same ones who loved Mellencamp right up until he wrote "To Washington".

dickfreckle: blastoh: Democrats will mostly excuse Clinton because of Newt

Not so fast there, Sparky. Most Dems I know never gave a damn about Clinton's sex life in the first place. It's not "excusing" when you don't view it as a problem to start with. Nor would we care about Newt's stupid penis tricks if he hadn't spent the past decades brow-beating us with $2 platitudes about how only he and his ilk are morally qualified to hold office.

Thanks for that.

Weaver95: they're a very whiny generation. kinda self centered too, for that matter.

In the same sense George Wallace was kind of an asshole, sure.

Weaver95: ghare: Weaver95: ...and the baby boomer generation is really gonna pitch a fit about a lot of it. But we can climb out of this pit. all it takes is the will to get it done.

Nonsense. The 1% is going to pitch a fit. Their lickspittles will pitch a fit. Trying to pin it on boomers is just another part of divide-and-conquer tactics of the 1%.

please note - I didn't blame the boomer generation for causing all our problems (although enough of them certainly contributed!). I said they'd scream bloody murder about what we'd have to do to fix things. I think that generation would scream louder than the 1%. they'd scream louder than greenpeace. you'll be able to hear them scream from low orbit.

they're a very whiny generation. kinda self centered too, for that matter.

You ought to meet a millennial. They make boomers look like saints. For that matter, so do GenX and GenY.

TwoHead: The lie that Bruce believes in? America

You've got to love a guy that decries capitlaism calls himself the "boss". I guess CEO Springsteen and the EVP Street Band doesn't sound quite as nice, eh?

Kuroshin: quatchi: fta: "What was done to our country was wrong and unpatriotic and un-American and nobody has been held to account"

Notice how nobody is trying to argue that he's wrong.

Also fta: "traduced". Really?

Yeah, that's coming back, GUK.

I point you to:

inkblot: He never says exactly what's been done to our country. And he can't, lest he lose sales and break the illusion in his fans' heads that the song is about whatever their pet cause is.
...

You can't argue against nothing.

/sales-baiting

Well, aside from the whole "Pop Lyrics" =/= "Position Paper" thing...

fta: "Previous to Occupy Wall Street, there was no push back at all saying this was outrageous - a basic theft that struck at the heart of what America was about, a complete disregard for the American sense of history and community ... In Easy Money the guy is going out to kill and rob, just like the robbery spree that has occurred at the top of the pyramid - he's imitating the guys on Wall Street. An enormous fault line cracked the American system right open whose repercussion we are only starting to be feel.

"Nobody had talked about income inequality in America for decades - apart from John Edwards - but no one was listening. But now you have Newt Gingrich talking about 'vulture capitalism' - Newt Gingrich! - that would not have happened without Occupy Wall Street."

That doesn't seem couched in overly vague allegory to me.

YMMV.

He's talking about wealth inequality and the fact that Wall Street is robbing Main Street blind and seeing no repercussions.

Is that "nothing"?

inkblot: He never says exactly what's been done to our country.

Those of us who have been paying attention don't need him to.

Weaver95: Shaggy_C: TwoHead: The lie that Bruce believes in? America

You've got to love a guy that decries capitlaism calls himself the "boss". I guess CEO Springsteen and the EVP Street Band doesn't sound quite as nice, eh?

that's ok - the assholes who infest the GOP and wall street aren't any more believers in capitalism than Springsteen. so there's that. which is nice.

No one "believes" in capitalism. For most of us it's a goad, for the people it serves it's a weapon. Get all the people who "believe" in capitalism - how ridiculous a premise that is - and you'd have one underpopulated insane asylum.

ghare: Weaver95: ghare: Weaver95: ...and the baby boomer generation is really gonna pitch a fit about a lot of it. But we can climb out of this pit. all it takes is the will to get it done.

Nonsense. The 1% is going to pitch a fit. Their lickspittles will pitch a fit. Trying to pin it on boomers is just another part of divide-and-conquer tactics of the 1%.

please note - I didn't blame the boomer generation for causing all our problems (although enough of them certainly contributed!). I said they'd scream bloody murder about what we'd have to do to fix things. I think that generation would scream louder than the 1%. they'd scream louder than greenpeace. you'll be able to hear them scream from low orbit.

they're a very whiny generation. kinda self centered too, for that matter.

You ought to meet a millennial. They make boomers look like saints. For that matter, so do GenX and GenY.

2/10

cman: At least he saw the bullshiat Obama was spewing and decided not to campaign for him

Yeah, because that's EXACTLY what the article doesn't say.

Every time I see a post by you, I wonder why I haven't /Ignored you yet. Then I remember that it's because some bad, evil part of me enjoys watching you make an idiot of yourself.

If I recall correctly, the United States was paying off the national deficit in 2000, unemployment was relatively low and tax revenues were high.

George W. Bush came from a "weak governor" state, Texas, where he was known as "Shrub" (his father being the full-fledged "Bush").

George W. Bush's campaign was focused on the message that this prosperity couldn't last; he preached this message in an economy where much of the success is based on faith in the economy itself; this message in this environment is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

George W. Bush skipped the "last mile" walk to the White House upon inauguration; the crowds seemed to be holding the ingredients for an omelet and were scowling rather than cheering. The morning after his inauguration, President Bush vetoed legislation that would've limited the amount of cyanide allowed in drinking water.

I didn't come here to sound like a liberal; I have strong words for people that are unemployed but don't look for work full-time.
I came here to remind people of what was going on twelve years ago; the vibe in 1999 was very positive, we were considered peacemakers by foreign countries, and were even warming up to Iran and Vietnam. The feeling in 2001 was that the investigation into the 2000 Presidential Election wasn't being taken nearly seriously enough; only two people went to jail, and Kathleen Harris was (and is) still on the lam.
September 11th seemed to wipe everybody's memory of the events of the previous three years; we seemed to have attacked ourselves before the fundamentalists did their business.

We can fix it. Just pass a law that anyone caught lying while campaigning is automatically disqualified from office. I don't mean campaign promises (how are you going to hold anyone to that?) but the blatant lies about their pasts, their records, and their opponents.

Spad31: Well, "soiled reputation" and all, people flock in droves to get in. Ain't too many of you who're biatchin' trying to get out. So...hmmm. Go figure.

There's somewhere worse than here! We're not the worst! There's somewhere worse than here! We're not the worst! USA! USA! USA!

With such high expectations I bet you achieve in all aspects of life.