What I have a hard time with is a high schooler using traceable payments. Even when I had a job and a checking account I used cash for the majority of my purchases. I guess times have changed.

Well what can you expect if you offer up personal info when making purchases? Hey, here's another newsflash - FB sells your info.

Crudbucket: FTA: How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did

Easy. Target paid more attention to her than her father did.

Good point.

GAT_00: May I present once again the glorious free market!

Why, oh, why can't it be perfect and flawless like the federal government?

So THAT'S why I get diaper coupons mixed in my with my condom, Scotch, and duct tape coupons!

AbbeySomeone: Well what can you expect if you offer up personal info when making purchases? Hey, here's another newsflash - FB sells your info.

And when the health insurance companies mine you and your family's drug store/food purchases with 87% accuracy and set your health care insurance premiums with 100% certainty?

You might stay off the grid, but can you say the same about all your family members? What happens when insurers build your health profile from your family history, and catagorize you accordingly?

realityVSperception: What happens when insurers build your health profile from your family history, and catagorize you accordingly?

ummmm... They are doing their jobs?

Show_The_O_Face: What I have a hard time with is a high schooler using traceable payments. Even when I had a job and a checking account I used cash for the majority of my purchases. I guess times have changed.

Agreed. I'm not that old (graduated HS in 2006), but I pretty much only used cash in HS, even though I had a checking account/debit card.

mr lawson: realityVSperception: What happens when insurers build your health profile from your family history, and catagorize you accordingly?

ummmm... They are doing their jobs?

Except for those who are in that 13% window of error.

Folks, whenever you hear IT folks talk about "data mining" and "business analytics", this is exactly what they are talking about. It's one of the reasons some areas of IT do well even during recessions. Companies are looking to generate more revenue, and predicting and anticipating future spending based on past patterns is (and will continue to be) a huge market.

realityVSperception: mr lawson: realityVSperception: What happens when insurers build your health profile from your family history, and catagorize you accordingly?

ummmm... They are doing their jobs?

Except for those who are in that 13% window of error.

do you really believe that they would stop refinement of their models with a 87% confidence interval?
/ it would be nothing more than a start
// and a bad one at that.. (new window).

So wait... There are people in the world that just realized this is why every store has their own branded "club" card or keychain fob?

snuff3r: Also, how can anyone in this day and age not know that this sort of thing happens.

Like the article said, they try not to be overt about it because it creeps people out.

This is why I refuse to give the clerk my phone number before they ring up my purchases. I've actually had to walk away from a register twice because I refused to give the number and the clerk couldn't get past that section of the checkout process.

I used to make up a phone number, but stopped when I realized that I was possibly subjecting some other poor slob to being harassed by the store.

On the other hand, some biatch named Cathy put my cell number on a web site somewhere and now I get all sorts of calls trying to sell her shiat.

BizarreMan: This is why I refuse to give the clerk my phone number before they ring up my purchases. I've actually had to walk away from a register twice because I refused to give the number and the clerk couldn't get past that section of the checkout process.

I used to make up a phone number, but stopped when I realized that I was possibly subjecting some other poor slob to being harassed by the store.

On the other hand, some biatch named Cathy put my cell number on a web site somewhere and now I get all sorts of calls trying to sell her shiat.

I've gotten texts all week for a tranny hooker who posted her ad on CL. Ya really. Ad was pulled finally.

Can't wait to hear about them getting sued for mental anguish when they bombard a woman with this crap who just had a miscarriage.

Crudbucket: wombatsrus: Folks, whenever you hear IT folks talk about "data mining" and "business analytics", this is exactly what they are talking about. It's one of the reasons some areas of IT do well even during recessions. Companies are looking to generate more revenue, and predicting and anticipating future spending based on past patterns is (and will continue to be) a huge market.

I don't see the huge objection to it. How dare they target their advertising for me specifically to items I might actually want instead of subjecting me to the same blanket media blitz as the rest of the nation? My wants and needs are unimportant and should never be taken into consideration! If they were breaking some kind of law, that's one thing. All they're doing here is taking information freely and willingly offered up and making accurate conclusions.

THIS!
If you are willing to provide discounts and coupons for things I would actually buy, then track my purchases and web browsing all you want.

I'm willing to support companies and products who support things I like. I've clicked on Banner Ads on Fark because that's how I can pay Drew for his work and Ideas.

When you favorite TV show goes off the air, when your favorite website stops updating it's because you aren't supporting the people who pay the bills.

Crudbucket: BizarreMan: This is why I refuse to give the clerk my phone number before they ring up my purchases. I've actually had to walk away from a register twice because I refused to give the number and the clerk couldn't get past that section of the checkout process.

I used to make up a phone number, but stopped when I realized that I was possibly subjecting some other poor slob to being harassed by the store.

On the other hand, some biatch named Cathy put my cell number on a web site somewhere and now I get all sorts of calls trying to sell her shiat.

867-5309

Everyone knows that's Jenny's #.

I have ended up on a mailing list for Parents magazine, crap from Emfamil and all sorts of other baby or infant related companies.

Wife has been fixed for 7 years.

Crudbucket: FTA: How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did

Easy. Target paid more attention to her than her father did.

NO kiddin'..."what's with the cocoa butter...and the big purses...and..."

cocoa butter, for those without kids or prior knowledge of this, is supposed to help reduce stretch marks from pregnancy.

/didn't remember reading it in the article...probably in there, just skimmed.
//was gonna say "well duh, she signed up for her baby registry there"

Crudbucket: FTA: How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did

Easy. Target paid more attention to her than her father did.

Ouch

Ed Finnerty: That doesn't bother me as much as the coupon she got for coat hangers and gauze.

...and the ShopVac, you can't forget the ShopVac. Gotta "clean up" somehow...

Crudbucket: Easy. Target paid more attention to her than her father did.

Unless it was dad who knocked her up.....

I guess we confuse Target though, as our youngest is turning 3, but we still get newborn coupons.

As Pole's computers crawled through the data, he was able to identify about 25 products that, when analyzed together, allowed him to assign each shopper a "pregnancy prediction" score. More important, he could also estimate her due date to within a small window, so Target could send coupons timed to very specific stages of her pregnancy.

As a wannabe stats geek, shiat like this gets me hard.

mr lawson: realityVSperception: mr lawson: realityVSperception: What happens when insurers build your health profile from your family history, and catagorize you accordingly?

ummmm... They are doing their jobs?

Except for those who are in that 13% window of error.

do you really believe that they would stop refinement of their models with a 87% confidence interval?
/ it would be nothing more than a start
// and a bad one at that.. (new window).

No, but they will err on he better safe than sorry side. You don't have the time or money to build a fully accurate model from the get go. So you leverage your ongoing investment for immediate return. If I've upgraded my 'old age' submodel to 87%, I'll probably move on to my 'young age' submodel that is still at 0% first. They don't wait for a 99.999% accurate model before adjusting rates, they go for the best fit that generates the best bottom line. Erring on the side of overcharging you or dropping you altogether is the best buisness strategy for them, if it improves the total bottom line. The point being you could get kicked to the curb even if you shouldn't be. One good data analysis person is going to cost you $100-$200K a year alone in salary, benefits, and work space. Management is not going to wait 25 years for historical proof to see if his results are right, they will try to lock them in immediately.

Here's a for instance. Your Dad marries your mom at 23. Dad's a the next Eli Manning, but, thirty years ago, he's killed by a drunk driver. So the widow is comforted by and marries his best lineman buddy. Who turns into an over weight fat, 'da bears' lump of lard and has 3 heart attacks before he's 50. And your 2 step brothers generated from this union are equally obese from the get go and are perfect candidates for diabeites and heart attacks as well. (cause we pulled their age, height, and weight from a web dating site), and combined it with the overall family shopping history.

So while you have the body of a god, and the work out routine of Jack Lalane, we have no first hand info on you because you have a high moral policy of cash only or do without. Or we didn't have the budget to buy the data set of difficult to track people like you.

As an IT guy, I'm not going to look for those out of the box scenarios. Or read into data I don't have You get to pay the heart attack\diabetic rate no matter how many miles you jogged or how much yougart you ate. Granted, you ate all 10 on the weekly shopping bill, but my calculations show an average of 2 yougarts per week per family member. I'm going to do the best I can with the info management gave me, for the biggest demographiics I can isolate and management in turn is going to bill whatever makes them the most money.

I've done these kinds of data analysis before, and management was far less interested in what was right as they were in what would let them bill the most at the lowest cost.

You've cited models that took decades to build, drawn from anonymous data sets built on past performance. These new numbers are from specific individual data, but no where near complete snapshots that you have no way of disputing for accuracy or completeness. And they are being used to deny or overcharge before they are proven valid.

And sure, at 13% error, your odds may seem low, but add it up with all the companies you deal with- auto, home, mortgage, renters, or health insurance, home, car, credit line financing, credit card companies, banks, landlords, employers, customers, or even potential dates doing background checks on you. Eventually the cumulative odds of bad, incomplete, or statistically inacurrate conclusions generated by one sloppy provider screwing you over at some point reaches 100%

And worst case, the models become self justifying. Based on the family history outlined above, you're denied health insurance, preventing you from obtaining affordable medical care. This results in an early death from what would have been a treatable but undiagnosed condition. The insurance company notes the early death, and increases the accuracy rating of the model that predicted you would die early.

M-G: Crudbucket: Easy. Target paid more attention to her than her father did.

Unless it was dad who knocked her up.....

I guess we confuse Target though, as our youngest is turning 3, but we still get newborn coupons.

Not really. Biologically, its best if a mother spaces children about three years apart. On a bell curve, statistically speakig, you're family's peaking on the point of your next child. Hence the newborn marketing. Welcome to the 13% margin of error.

drjekel_mrhyde: Crudbucket: FTA: How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did

Easy. Target paid more attention to her than her father did.

Ouch

"Most people stumble over opportunity because it wears overalls and looks like hard work"

Create a service that statistically monitors teenage children based on social media, card charges, car gps data, comingling with peers , etc, and alert parents on behavior patterns. Which isn't all bad if it includes things like suicide prevention, bullying intervention, undiagnosed medical conditions, poor driving, etc, that cost too many lives too soon. Plus you'll make millions in the age of helicopter parents and data resales.

realityVSperception: And sure, at 13% error, your odds may seem low, but add it up with all the companies you deal with- auto, home, mortgage, renters, or health insurance, home, car, credit line financing, credit card companies, banks, landlords, employers, customers, or even potential dates doing background checks on you. Eventually the cumulative odds of bad, incomplete, or statistically inacurrate conclusions generated by one sloppy provider screwing you over at some point reaches 100%

curious...how do you believe they set rates now?

oukewldave: Can't wait to hear about them getting sued for mental anguish when they bombard a woman with this crap who just had a miscarriage.

Been there, done that. After the 2nd time my wife had to tell my insurance company that they can stop calling about maintaining proper prenatal care, I snapped and ripped the phone from my wife and seriously laid into the poor sadsack phonebanker. I don't normally get angry but at the time I had some inner rage at the time.

/I feel sorry for the phonebanker now.

Recently I've noticed that Target gives me cat food ads/coupons at the checkout even when there's nothing cat-related in my purchases. So I kinda figured they were tracking my credit card number. The more you know.

If they're going to be tracking me like this I want some better coupons. They should know I'm a scroogey farker by now.

Oh, now I get it.

senzasord: Oh, now I get it.

Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow
Meow, Meow,Meow, Meow
Meow, Meow,Meow, Meow,Meow, Meow
Meow, Meow.

/it's whats for dinner
//lutz

snuff3r: Show_The_O_Face: What I have a hard time with is a high schooler using traceable payments. Even when I had a job and a checking account I used cash for the majority of my purchases. I guess times have changed.

I don't know anyone who carries cash in this day and age. Tap'n'go, visa-debit cards, temporary visas, etc. Why would you bother.

Also, how can anyone in this day and age not know that this sort of thing happens. Age of digital enlightenment indeed.

Personally I pay cash for anything $20 or under. It just seems silly to use a credit/debit card for cheap stuff.

oukewldave: Can't wait to hear about them getting sued for mental anguish when they bombard a woman with this crap who just had a miscarriage.

They should send her coupons for pianos.

That's kinda pretty cool actually :P The store manager's not gonna have a flipping clue what's going on but when the dad was apologizing over the phone I could hear the data computers going 'Nailed it.'

Man, I love seeing business intelligence in the news - especially when it gets misused. The whole point of BI is to gain actionable information. However, what action you take on such information should be tempered with, oh, I don't know, a farking nanogram of common sense.

The worst part of stuff like this is that it's then used to further erode the already tissue-thin wall of personal privacy. "Well, we don't actually need to ask your permission - we can just develop a cluster mining model based on your shopping activities and use the indirect information gained that way to manipulate you." Business pundits then claim that, well, since they're already getting what they want by analyzing public data, it'd be that much easier if they just got access to private data - they promise not to misuse it. Lobbyists use these wheedling arguments to push legislation that allows even more access to what you consider "private."

What's the abbreviation for: "There was an ad, so I killed the page without reading the article?"

Meh, this doesn't bother me at all. I'm all for personalized coupons.

GAT_00: May I present once again the glorious free market!

What upsets you about this?