Because if anyone should be giving moral guidance to Americans it's the leaders of the world's largest pedophile ring.

Obama played social conservatives like a fiddle on this one... If it wasn't intentional, it's the biggest case of serendipity I've seen in a long time.

It just points out that there a lot more parishioners than Bishops, and the sanctity of human life, as currently laid out in extremest language, is being ignored as impracticable.

The leaders of several large Catholic organizations that work directly on poverty, health care and education have welcomed the president's plan as a workable compromise that has the potential to protect religious freedom while allowing employees who request it to have contraceptives covered by their insurance plans...

The Department of Health and Human Services announced on Jan. 20 that parishes and houses of worship would be exempted from the requirement, but that other religiously affiliated employers, like Catholic hospitals and universities, would still have to pay for the coverage.

The bishops called the rule an affront to religious liberty and a violation of Catholic conscience. After three weeks of protest that united the bishops with many priests, nuns and prominent Catholic laypeople from the political right and left, the Obama administration announced what it called a compromise on Friday. It said that the Catholic institutions would not have to pay for the birth control coverage or refer their employees to it, but that it would all be covered directly by the insurance companies.

The contrast in responses from Catholic organizations has been more a matter of tone than content. They are all in agreement that certain issues still need to be worked out, like what to do about Catholic institutions that are "self-insured," meaning that they act as both the insurer and the employer.

The Catholic Church is not stopping ANYONE from purchasing contraception. The Catholic Church should not be compelled to participate in an act (through funding) they find morally abhorrent.

Suppose the issue was government mandating employers provide all employees cafeteria services (everyone needs to eat). But, not only that, the government has decided that all cafeterias MUST provide pork products. Most people would have no problem with this mandate. But suppose your corporation is PETA (or a mosque) -- Why should the government tell you that YOUR cafeteria MUST provide pork? (When people who want to buy pork are FREE to buy pork anywhere else (from people who are NOT vegetarians) AND you are feeding them (which is the purpose of a cafeteria).)

This was settled church doctrine long before the United States even existed. The Catholic Church did not seek this conflict -- this conflict was imposed on the church. The constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion -- that liberty has been seriously undermined here.

Of all the non-issues that got Republicans all frothy at the mouth in the past four years, this is the biggest non-issue of all. Wage war against something 99% of the country agrees on? Good job idiots. It's like they're Charlie Brown, f*cking every single thing up they touch.

Bevets: The Catholic Church should not be compelled to participate in an act (through funding) they find morally abhorrent.

Yeah well they shouldn't pass the collection plate to people who find using tithe money to relocate and protect child molesters abhorrent.

Why exactly is the Catholic Church against contraception, anyway? Can someone provide a line and verse from the Bible that they misinterpreted?

Mugato: Can someone provide a line and verse from the Bible that they misinterpreted?

It has something to do with that be fruitful and multiply stuff. And from a pragmatic view, the more people you've got putting money in the collection plate, the richer you can get.

Mugato: Bevets: The Catholic Church should not be compelled to participate in an act (through funding) they find morally abhorrent.

Yeah well they shouldn't pass the collection plate to people who find using tithe money to relocate and protect child molesters abhorrent.

Why exactly is the Catholic Church against contraception, anyway? Can someone provide a line and verse from the Bible that they misinterpreted?

A) Wasting semen is a terrible sin
B) Women having sex for fun will bring about the apocalypse, so there should ALWAYS be a chance of them becoming pregnant

oldernell: Mugato: Can someone provide a line and verse from the Bible that they misinterpreted?

It has something to do with that be fruitful and multiply stuff. And from a pragmatic view, the more people you've got putting money in the collection plate, the richer you can get.

No, it's based on the idea the human life, as a gift from God, is sacred and not to be interfered with by people. The doctrine covers contraception, abortion, the death penalty and euthanasia. Lots of things for people to disagree with, but logically consistent.

Mugato: Can someone provide a line and verse from the Bible that they misinterpreted?

Genesis 38:8-10, Onan is executed by a kind and loving God for cumming on the floor instead of in his brother's wife.

simplicimus: oldernell: Mugato: Can someone provide a line and verse from the Bible that they misinterpreted?

It has something to do with that be fruitful and multiply stuff. And from a pragmatic view, the more people you've got putting money in the collection plate, the richer you can get.

No, it's based on the idea the human life, as a gift from God, is sacred and not to be interfered with by people. The doctrine covers contraception, abortion, the death penalty and euthanasia. Lots of things for people to disagree with, but logically consistent.


I don't know, that's still pretty vague. It's not like it's a Commandment, at least six of which no one, especially Republicans, cares about. The thou shall not kill thing is waaaay the fark down the list. It's not even in the same importance category as eating shellfish or shaving. I really don't get why contraception is so important to Catholics. Why Africans have to die from AIDS because Catholic missionaries say that wrapping it is a sin. It just doesn't make any sense. Bevets, do you have a copied and pasted quote that can ellucidate all this?

Bevets: The leaders of several large Catholic organizations that work directly on poverty, health care and education have welcomed the president's plan as a workable compromise that has the potential to protect religious freedom while allowing employees who request it to have contraceptives covered by their insurance plans...

The Department of Health and Human Services announced on Jan. 20 that parishes and houses of worship would be exempted from the requirement, but that other religiously affiliated employers, like Catholic hospitals and universities, would still have to pay for the coverage.

The bishops called the rule an affront to religious liberty and a violation of Catholic conscience. After three weeks of protest that united the bishops with many priests, nuns and prominent Catholic laypeople from the political right and left, the Obama administration announced what it called a compromise on Friday. It said that the Catholic institutions would not have to pay for the birth control coverage or refer their employees to it, but that it would all be covered directly by the insurance companies.

The contrast in responses from Catholic organizations has been more a matter of tone than content. They are all in agreement that certain issues still need to be worked out, like what to do about Catholic institutions that are "self-insured," meaning that they act as both the insurer and the employer.

The Catholic Church is not stopping ANYONE from purchasing contraception. The Catholic Church should not be compelled to participate in an act (through funding) they find morally abhorrent.

Suppose the issue was government mandating employers provide all employees cafeteria services (everyone needs to eat). But, not only that, the government has decided that all cafeterias MUST provide pork products. Most people would have no problem with this mandate. But suppose your corporation is PETA (or a mosque) -- Why should the government tell you that YOUR cafeteria MUST provide pork? ...

That's nonsense. Freedom of religion is not the freedom to impose your religion on someone else. Freedom of religion belongs to people not churches.

Mugato: simplicimus: oldernell: Mugato: Can someone provide a line and verse from the Bible that they misinterpreted?

It has something to do with that be fruitful and multiply stuff. And from a pragmatic view, the more people you've got putting money in the collection plate, the richer you can get.

No, it's based on the idea the human life, as a gift from God, is sacred and not to be interfered with by people. The doctrine covers contraception, abortion, the death penalty and euthanasia. Lots of things for people to disagree with, but logically consistent.


I don't know, that's still pretty vague. It's not like it's a Commandment, at least six of which no one, especially Republicans, cares about. The thou shall not kill thing is waaaay the fark down the list. It's not even in the same importance category as eating shellfish or shaving. I really don't get why contraception is so important to Catholics. Why Africans have to die from AIDS because Catholic missionaries say that wrapping it is a sin. It just doesn't make any sense. Bevets, do you have a copied and pasted quote that can ellucidate all this?

It's from On Human Life which is a Papal Bull (official part of Catholic Dogma).

simplicimus: oldernell: Mugato: Can someone provide a line and verse from the Bible that they misinterpreted?

It has something to do with that be fruitful and multiply stuff. And from a pragmatic view, the more people you've got putting money in the collection plate, the richer you can get.

No, it's based on the idea the human life, as a gift from God, is sacred and not to be interfered with by people. The doctrine covers contraception, abortion, the death penalty and euthanasia. Lots of things for people to disagree with, but logically consistent.

so shouldn't that preclude endorsing the rhythm method and other attempts to ejaculate in and around a woman without impregnating her?

thomps: simplicimus: oldernell: Mugato: Can someone provide a line and verse from the Bible that they misinterpreted?

It has something to do with that be fruitful and multiply stuff. And from a pragmatic view, the more people you've got putting money in the collection plate, the richer you can get.

No, it's based on the idea the human life, as a gift from God, is sacred and not to be interfered with by people. The doctrine covers contraception, abortion, the death penalty and euthanasia. Lots of things for people to disagree with, but logically consistent.

so shouldn't that preclude endorsing the rhythm method and other attempts to ejaculate in and around a woman without impregnating her?

Yes. By the rules, I shouldn't have sex with my wife because she had a full hysterectomy, so we can't reproduce. But you have to keep the pews full, so there are loopholes for the faithful.

Mugato: Bevets: The Catholic Church should not be compelled to participate in an act (through funding) they find morally abhorrent.

Yeah well they shouldn't pass the collection plate to people who find using tithe money to relocate and protect child molesters abhorrent.

Why exactly is the Catholic Church against contraception, anyway? Can someone provide a line and verse from the Bible that they misinterpreted?

well over 99% of all catholics (in the US, which is what the article is about) use contraceptives, so the church can rant as much as they want, but their followers continue to ignore the church.

Bevets: The Catholic Church is not stopping ANYONE from purchasing contraception. The Catholic Church should not be compelled to participate in an act (through funding) they find morally abhorrent.

Of course they should, Steve, because contraception is about health care, not morality.

FTFA: To many Catholics, it is reminiscent of the rifts that surfaced in 1968 when Pope Paul VI issued the encyclical "Humanae Vitae," which reaffirmed the prohibition on artificial contraception, disregarding a Vatican commission's recommendation to do away with the ban.

I look at that phrase honestly wonder if it will ever been known how much damage the church did to itself right there.

Bevets: The Catholic Church should not be compelled to participate in an act (through funding) they find morally abhorrent.

Why is it then that Mike Huckabee was able to easily pass an even more 'repressive' law in conservative Arkansas, with bipartisan support?

Slives: FTFA: To many Catholics, it is reminiscent of the rifts that surfaced in 1968 when Pope Paul VI issued the encyclical "Humanae Vitae," which reaffirmed the prohibition on artificial contraception, disregarding a Vatican commission's recommendation to do away with the ban.

I look at that phrase honestly wonder if it will ever been known how much damage the church did to itself right there.


What I don't get is how the Church can just "declare" things when we haven't had any input from God in, depending on you you ask, like over 2,000 years. Of course the Mormons have taken this to an extreme but how do Catholics get away with just making shiat up and calling it God's will?

Sleeping Monkey: Because if anyone should be giving moral guidance to Americans it's the leaders of the world's largest pedophile ring.

done in one.

Slives: FTFA: To many Catholics, it is reminiscent of the rifts that surfaced in 1968 when Pope Paul VI issued the encyclical "Humanae Vitae," which reaffirmed the prohibition on artificial contraception, disregarding a Vatican commission's recommendation to do away with the ban.

I look at that phrase honestly wonder if it will ever been known how much damage the church did to itself right there.

Oh heck, we've been damaging ourselves since the beginning. Caesar Augustus, noticing a decline in Roman births, issued an edict saying "Romans, don't be all gay all the time. Rome needs children". Peter shows up in Rome, preaching about sins of the flesh, and gathers a following of people who swear off sex. Romans find out, crucify him.
Later Paul shows up, saying "Don't be gay at all". Romans find out, crucify him.
And then things get weird.

It makes them so mad that they could just rape a few hundred thousand children up the ass.

Sleeping Monkey: Because if anyone should be giving moral guidance to Americans it's the leaders of the world's largest pedophile ring.

Who should we listen to when it comes to womens' reproductive health? A bunch of men who don't have sex with women!

vernonFL: Sleeping Monkey: Because if anyone should be giving moral guidance to Americans it's the leaders of the world's largest pedophile ring.

Who should we listen to when it comes to womens' reproductive health? A bunch of men who don't have sex with women!

I had a similar thought when the wife and I were getting married... We went to talk with her parish priest and I found it humorous to be sitting and talking about married life and sexual relationships with an elderly man who had taken a vow of celibacy early in his life.

(Anyway, he refused to marry us because we had been "living in sin" for 10 years prior to trying to get hitched.)

keylock71: vernonFL: Sleeping Monkey: Because if anyone should be giving moral guidance to Americans it's the leaders of the world's largest pedophile ring.

Who should we listen to when it comes to womens' reproductive health? A bunch of men who don't have sex with women!

I had a similar thought when the wife and I were getting married... We went to talk with her parish priest and I found it humorous to be sitting and talking about married life and sexual relationships with an elderly man who had taken a vow of celibacy early in his life.

(Anyway, he refused to marry us because we had been "living in sin" for 10 years prior to trying to get hitched.)

That's odd. An Act of Confession would have wiped that all out. However, you would have to regret living together, which makes for an odd start to a marriage.

keylock71: I had a similar thought when the wife and I were getting married... We went to talk with her parish priest and I found it humorous to be sitting and talking about married life and sexual relationships with an elderly man who had taken a vow of celibacy early in his life.

The Catholic church established early on that even men who know nothing about women know more about women than women.

Bevets: The leaders of several large Catholic organizations that work directly on poverty, health care and education have welcomed the president's plan as a workable compromise that has the potential to protect religious freedom while allowing employees who request it to have contraceptives covered by their insurance plans...

The Department of Health and Human Services announced on Jan. 20 that parishes and houses of worship would be exempted from the requirement, but that other religiously affiliated employers, like Catholic hospitals and universities, would still have to pay for the coverage.

The bishops called the rule an affront to religious liberty and a violation of Catholic conscience. After three weeks of protest that united the bishops with many priests, nuns and prominent Catholic laypeople from the political right and left, the Obama administration announced what it called a compromise on Friday. It said that the Catholic institutions would not have to pay for the birth control coverage or refer their employees to it, but that it would all be covered directly by the insurance companies.

The contrast in responses from Catholic organizations has been more a matter of tone than content. They are all in agreement that certain issues still need to be worked out, like what to do about Catholic institutions that are "self-insured," meaning that they act as both the insurer and the employer.

The Catholic Church is not stopping ANYONE from purchasing contraception. The Catholic Church should not be compelled to participate in an act (through funding) they find morally abhorrent.

Suppose the issue was government mandating employers provide all employees cafeteria services (everyone needs to eat). But, not only that, the government has decided that all cafeterias MUST provide pork products. Most people would have no problem with this mandate. But suppose your corporation is PETA (or a mosque) -- Why should the government tell you that YOUR cafeteria MUST provide pork? ...

Your established history of dishonesty disqualifies you as a credible source of information. You are known to rely upon demonstrable lies as a means of justifying your position; consequently, you cannot be trusted.

TFA: The uproar threatens to embroil the Catholic church in a bitter election-year political battle while deepening internal rifts within the church.

And republicans wash their hands and put up a "Mission Accomplished" banner.

The leaders of several large Catholic organizations that work directly on poverty, health care and education have welcomed the president's plan as a workable compromise that has the potential to protect religious freedom while allowing employees who request it to have contraceptives covered by their insurance plans...

The Department of Health and Human Services announced on Jan. 20 that parishes and houses of worship would be exempted from the requirement, but that other religiously affiliated employers, like Catholic hospitals and universities, would still have to pay for the coverage.

The bishops called the rule an affront to religious liberty and a violation of Catholic conscience. After three weeks of protest that united the bishops with many priests, nuns and prominent Catholic laypeople from the political right and left, the Obama administration announced what it called a compromise on Friday. It said that the Catholic institutions would not have to pay for the birth control coverage or refer their employees to it, but that it would all be covered directly by the insurance companies.

The contrast in responses from Catholic organizations has been more a matter of tone than content. They are all in agreement that certain issues still need to be worked out, like what to do about Catholic institutions that are "self-insured," meaning that they act as both the insurer and the employer.

Bevets:

The Catholic Church is not stopping ANYONE from purchasing contraception. The Catholic Church should not be compelled to participate in an act (through funding) they find morally abhorrent.

Suppose the issue was government mandating employers provide all employees cafeteria services (everyone needs to eat). But, not only that, the government has decided that all cafeterias MUST provide pork products. Most people would have no problem with this mandate. But suppose your corporation is PETA (or a mosque) -- Why should the government tell you that YOUR cafeteria MUST provide pork? (When people who want to buy pork are FREE to buy pork anywhere else (from people who are NOT vegetarians) AND you are feeding them (which is the purpose of a cafeteria).)

This was settled church doctrine long before the United States even existed. The Catholic Church did not seek this conflict -- this conflict was imposed on the church. The constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion -- that liberty has been seriously undermined here.

vpb:

Freedom of religion is not the freedom to impose your religion on someone else. Freedom of religion belongs to people not churches.

Like people who run insurance companies? Or work at pharmacies? Or run adoption agencies? Perhaps they would like to retain the Freedom of Moral Conscience they previously enjoyed.

indylaw: Bevets: The Catholic Church is not stopping ANYONE from purchasing contraception. The Catholic Church should not be compelled to participate in an act (through funding) they find morally abhorrent.

But the President modified the rule to ensure that the Catholic Church is not paying for contraception. The fact that the bishops are still bellowing about the rule shows that the real issue is not that the Church will have to pay for an objected-to medical practice, but that employees of Church affiliated organizations will be able to follow their OWN freedom of conscience and do things which the Church opposes.

You're making even less sense that you usually do.

Odd position for a church to take that believes in free will.

fatimcgee: simplicimus: No, it's based on the idea the human life, as a gift from God, is sacred and not to be interfered with by people. The doctrine covers contraception, abortion, the death penalty and euthanasia. Lots of things for people to disagree with, but logically consistent.

[i2.kym-cdn.com image 375x323]

Well, all life is sacred, or not.

Bevets: Like people who run insurance companies? Or work at pharmacies? Or run adoption agencies? Perhaps they would like to retain the Freedom of Moral Conscience they previously enjoyed.

If a religious institution does not wish to be subject to rules applicable to public companies, then they should not run public companies.

Your established history of dishonesty disqualifies you as a credible source of information.